COMMENTS: 137
Israel Is Foolishly Breeding the Next Generation of Islamic Militants in Gaza
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Can anyone who is following the Israeli air attacks on Gaza-the buildings blown to rubble, the children killed on their way to school, the long rows of mutilated corpses, the wailing mothers and wives, the crowds of terrified Palestinians not knowing where to flee, the hospitals so overburdened and out of supplies they cannot treat the wounded, and our studied, callous indifference to this widespread human suffering-wonder why we are hated?
Our self-righteous celebration of ourselves and our supposed virtue is as false as that of Israel. We have become monsters, militarized bullies, heartless and savage. We are a party to human slaughter, a flagrant war crime, and do nothing. We forget that the innocents who suffer and die in Gaza are a reflection of ourselves, of how we might have been should fate and time and geography have made the circumstances of our birth different. We forget that we are all absurd and vulnerable creatures. We all have the capacity to fear and hate and love. "Expose thyself to what wretches feel," King Lear said, entering the mud and straw hovel of Poor Tom, "and show the heavens more just."
Privilege and power, especially military power, is a dangerous narcotic. Violence destroys those who bear the brunt of its force, but also those who try to use it to become gods. Over 350 Palestinians have been killed, many of them civilians, and over 1,000 have been wounded since the air attacks began on Saturday. Ehud Barak, Israel's defense minister, said Israel is engaged in a "war to the bitter end" against Hamas in Gaza. A war? Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely crowded refugee camps and slums, to attack a population that has no air force, no air defense, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command and control, no army, and calls it a war. It is not a war. It is murder.
The U.N. special rapporteur for human rights in the occupied Palestinian taerritory, former Princeton University law professor Richard Falk, has labeled what Israel is doing to the 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza "a crime against humanity." Falk, who is Jewish, has condemned the collective punishment of the Palestinians in Gaza as "a flagrant and massive violation of international humanitarian law as laid down in Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention." He has asked for "the International Criminal Court to investigate the situation, and determine whether the Israeli civilian leaders and military commanders responsible for the Gaza siege should be indicted and prosecuted for violations of international criminal law."
Falk's unflinching honesty has enraged Israel. He was banned from entering the country on Dec. 14 during his attempt to visit Gaza and the West Bank.
"After being denied entry I was put in a holding room with about 20 others experiencing entry problems," he said. "At this point I was treated not as a U.N. representative, but as some sort of security threat, subjected to an inch-by-inch body search, and the most meticulous luggage inspection I have ever witnessed. I was separated from my two U.N. companions, who were allowed to enter Israel. At this point I was taken to the airport detention facility a mile or so away, required to put all my bags and cell phone in a room, taken to a locked, tiny room that had five other detainees, smelled of urine and filth, and was an unwelcome invitation to claustrophobia. I spent the next 15 hours so confined, which amounted to a cram course on the miseries of prison life, including dirty sheets, inedible food, and either lights that were too bright or darkness controlled from the guard office."
The foreign press has been, like Falk, barred by Israel from entering Gaza to report on the destruction.
Israel's stated aim of halting homemade rockets fired from Gaza into Israel remains unfulfilled. Gaza militants have fired more than 100 rockets and mortars into Israel, killing four people and wounding nearly two dozen more, since Israel unleashed its air assault. Israel has threatened to launch a ground assault and has called up 6,500 army reservists. It has massed tanks on the Gaza border and declared the area a closed military zone.
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Posted by: 2thepoint on Dec 31, 2008 2:46 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
World Net Daily:
"Palestinian children are taught to hate Jews, to glorify "jihad" (holy war), violence, death and child martyrdom almost from birth, as an essential part of their culture and destiny.
As captured on an Israeli video documentary produced in 1998, a "Sesame Street"-like children's program called the "Children's Club" -- complete with puppet shows, songs, Mickey Mouse and other characters -- focused on inculcating intense hatred of Jews and a passion for engaging in and celebrating violence against them in a perpetual "jihad" until the day the Israeli flags come down from above "Palestinian land" and the Palestinian flag is raised.
Palestinian children throwing rocks at an Israeli military vehicle.
In one song on the "Children's Club," very young children are shown singing songs about wanting to become "suicide warriors" and to take up "a machine gun" to direct "violence, anger, anger, anger" against Israelis."
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» I left this one out..
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: I left this one out..
Posted by: hilaryuk
» Right on, hilaryuk
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: I left this one out..
Posted by: Von
» History according to...........
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: History according to...........
Posted by: Von
» RE: History according to...........a Holocaust deny-er!!
Posted by: harryf200
» oh god
Posted by: Von
» RE: History according to...........a Holocaust deny-er!!
Posted by: Von
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: sakul72
» and the Jewish terror group KACH
Posted by: Von
» Quite so ... a state born of terrorism ...
Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: sakul72
» 2thepoint still has his house duct-taped
Posted by: Von
» 2thepoint is resorting to name calling to make his /her point!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: Von
» And what about Palestinians in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan?
Posted by: maxpayne
» Geez..I wonder why?
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: Cybershaman
» World Net Daily?!? They say that Soybeans turn children into homosexuals!
Posted by: fanny666
» RE: 2thepoint: YOU'RE Doing just fine!
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: oneerc
» RE: Israelis on the other hand just use world wide media
Posted by: 876
» Nov. 5, 2008: Gaza truce broken as Israeli raid kills six Hamas gunmen
Posted by: LeftWright
» Callous Indifference.
Posted by: emmas
» RE: Callous Indifference.
Posted by: emmas
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Posted by: paulmagillsmith on Dec 31, 2008 4:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It must also be remembered that 46% of Palestinians are 15 or younger, so this will bode ill for Israelis for generations unless they learn the art of coming to a peaceful solution through compromise & decency. Might isn't right, only right-winged philosophy.
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» RE: I know I wouldn't stop fighting Israel until my dying breath
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: I know I wouldn't stop fighting Israel until my dying breath
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: I know I wouldn't stop fighting Israel until my dying breath
Posted by: sakul72
» RE: All the money wasted on blowing things up!
Posted by: Cybershaman
» I don't think you know what goes on...
Posted by: donl51
» Your statement is ridiculous
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Your statement is ridiculous
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Your statement is ridiculous
Posted by: mgmyers79
» About your Virginia analogy...
Posted by: realist
» General Lee and Hamas
Posted by: mgmyers79
» Thankyou, mgmyers, for pointing out how ridiculous a comparison
Posted by: paulmagillsmith
» RE: General Lee and Hamas
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: General Lee and Hamas
Posted by: mgmyers79
» Finally, someone who gets it! N/T
Posted by: 2thepoint
» for your reading enjoyment
Posted by: Von
» You're a perfect example of a Disease carrier, a Violent rabid infected Mind
Posted by: common intelligence
Comments are closed-
Posted by: beeden on Dec 31, 2008 4:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is unconscionable that the Israeli government/military, lying fat on their "holocaust conscience", should be a party to such carnage. Palestinian families are daily and deliberately traumatised in an act of genocide, with the meticulous precision of a Nazi death camp. The horrors perpetuated on the Jewish people in the past by the Nazis are now the Israeli people's favoured tools of oppression.
In the future, there will be a Palestinian Museum of their Holocaust, outlining the history of terrors daily faced by an entire population, terrorised "because they were not Jewish", of land stolen, incarcerations and torture, children and the elderly left without food or medical aid.
When the Jewish people fought for their people in the Warsaw ghetto, their weapons were small firearms and home-made bombs, no tanks, no fighter jets, no specialized army, just citizens concerned about the conditions of life imposed upon them by the Nazis, the people who fought this injustice were called freedom fighters by the people they fought for, just as the Palestinians today call their warriors.
What once were warriors, the Jewish people, have become mass murderers, inflicting death and injury upon the innocent ( shooting fish in a barrel and hoping to hit the big one ), whatever conscience humanity was to attain on the history of the Jewish holocaust, has been cast aside with the indiscriminate bloodbath of Israeli International Relations, " for a few shekels made from stolen land ".
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» RE: Once Were Warriors
Posted by: justgreenleaf
» Do you actually know anything about history?
Posted by: Crazy H
» Amazing!..what goes around comes around...
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Once Were Warriors
Posted by: metrognome
» RE: Once Were Warriors
Posted by: beeden
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Dec 31, 2008 5:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
War of Drugs is ridiculous because as long as a farmer can make more money producing drug crops instead of food crops, he will continue.
Further, since Man has always found ways to "Get High", this is a typical Human behavior.
for every field you burn, every High on you imprison, another will take his place.
So goes the 'War On Terror'. If you do not change the factors which make it beneficial, you'll never rid the world of Terrosit activities.
first you need give them nothing to 'Rally the Troops' about.Then you must show some level of comprehension regarding their grievances (many are legitmate but Politically unpopular). So you have to also turn the screws own your former 'Allies', showing which of their behaviors are unacceptable too.
so take away the Profitability of growing drugs and take way the 'ammo'(reasons for) of Terrorist acts . Reduce the Desire (or need) to Get High and Reduce the 'glory' High of Terrorism.
They are basically the same Dilemas, with similar solutions...These 'Wars' can only be fought in the Hearts & Minds of Men, not in the Streets or fields.
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» Right
Posted by: mgmyers79
» Damn right. Remove WOD and the hemp ban is removed and then so too is dependence on foreign oil and
Posted by: maxpayne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Schlarmie on Dec 31, 2008 6:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's see...Because the Palestineans refuse to relinquish their country and submit to life as an occupied people, they should be incinerated along with all who are unfortunate enough to be in the way of Zionist ambitions?
Amazing logic.
You really DO need to educate yourself about the history of the middle east. And while you're at it, treat youself to some history of the Indigenous people who inhabited this hemisphere prior to Columbus' invasion. I'm sure that you will find that there are MANY similarities regarding the treatment of people who obstruct EMPIRES.
I heard that Zbigniew Breshinski has been schooling fools this week...maybe he's got room for another in his classroom.
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» RE: Nukem OMG!!!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Nukem OMG!!!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 31, 2008 8:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Nukem
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Nukem GOT IT!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cybershaman on Dec 31, 2008 9:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah... I know it's not 'right' under the ground, but turning a sea of sand into glass might just be enough heat to start a chain reaction.
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» RE: I hope you're kidding...
Posted by: Schlarmie
» RE: I know...
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: I hope you're kidding...
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Crazy H on Dec 31, 2008 10:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
Yo, Spammer -
You just blew it big time. You forgot you were posting to a progressive site, didn't you?
For those few gullible souls who haven't figured this sleazebag out yet: he's not posting his opinon. His sole reason for posting is for that link at the bottom. When he posts here, he posts strongly progressive views but when he posts at the right wing sites he makes suggestions such as this one. I guess he got confused in his daily routine of spamming every site he can get to.
Get a clue, report his comments to Alternet and refuse to donate money until such time as they stop subsidizing spammers.
Jerk
Ulitmate Spam-A-Ninny
.
--------------------------------
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» Crazy!...is a spammer and a troll the same,...and who might it be?
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 31, 2008 6:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Israel's paying no price so far for the past 60+ years and what with
Posted by: hilaryuk
» well, Max,we're back to that two different sects of the Muslim beleaf
Posted by: donl51
» RE: well, Max,we're back to that two different sects of the Muslim beleaf
Posted by: maxpayne
» arab countries
Posted by: jouifocracy
» RE: arab countries
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: arab countries
Posted by: donl51
» RE: arab countries
Posted by: maxpayne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dustdevil on Dec 31, 2008 6:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe that is one of the not so obvious reasons why most people in this country support Israel. Our ancestors were guilty of a very similar crime.
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» RE: History repeats
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: justgreenleaf on Dec 31, 2008 7:31 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Four million Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. It's easy--they ALL leave and go to other Arab states.
No more palestinian state ever.
God would approve.
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» RE: justgreenleaf
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Your reading comprehension needs work . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: I like the disappearing Israel part best!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: I like the disappearing Israel part best!
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: I like the disappearing Israel part best!
Posted by: donl51
» Richard Falk not Hedges.
Posted by: WhatNow?
» justfreenleafwindbag
Posted by: americansheep
» RE: justfreenleafwindbag....no gods!!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: or the Israeli immigrants can go back to Europe- easier than displacing natives of Palestine
Posted by: 876
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Dec 31, 2008 7:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are some differences of course between these circumstances and the way Jews were treated in Europe in the 1930's and 40's. However ineffectively, the Palestinians are trying to fight back, for example. Of course their tormentors only use this as an excuse for even more brutality.
History never repeats itself, but it often rhymes.
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» RE: History Repeats?
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 31, 2008 8:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: ABOUT THE YOUNG PEOPLE
Posted by: americansheep
» AND THAT ENEMY WOULD BE US!
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Dec 31, 2008 8:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The media have yet to truly give all of the facts, that Israel continues to not just occupy the land, but that they are taking more and more land away from the Palestinians! I dare anyone to tell me if their homes were being invaded and occupied that they would not fight back! Enough is enough! When Hamas was legitimately voted into office the Israeli's said they would not even recognize them! WTF!? Whom did the Israeli's want in office, certainly not the democratically elected government that the Palestinian people chose, but a puppet government that Israel could manipulate to it's will! What nerve!
This government, our American government that gives it's tacit support to this atrocious behavior needs to stop! America needs to stop providing aid and defense to Israel now. This will force the Israeli's to the negotiating table!
After the failures that are Afghanistan and Iraq, why is it that Americans still don't understand military might does not achieve the desired result! Military might only achieves the results of inspiring "terrorists"! Just look at Iraq post American invasion - there were never "terrorists" in Saddam's Iraq, the terrorists came into Iraq after the American invasion - why? Because this nation was wrong to go into that country based on lies! Because not only were there no WMD's, but because the world knows that the only reason for the invasion was for the OIL!!
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» Truer words have not been spoken so far...
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Truer words have not been spoken so far...
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Truer words have not been spoken so far...
Posted by: donl51
» RE: The real criminals.........
Posted by: Von
» RE: The real criminals.........
Posted by: donl51
» RE: The real criminals.........
Posted by: Von
» Very well said, Spiritgirl, you have your head screwed on correctly
Posted by: paulmagillsmith
» RE: There were no terrorists in Afghanistan either
Posted by: 876
Comments are closed-
Posted by: georgewatson on Dec 31, 2008 8:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: fanny666 on Dec 31, 2008 9:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is *this* how you want your tax dollars used? Write to the Obama transition team and tell them what you think.
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» RE: These are US jets firing US missiles
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: Outspokengrandmother on Dec 31, 2008 9:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Israel is giving the Palestine something to lose...
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Israel is giving the Palestine something to lose...
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Archie1954 on Dec 31, 2008 11:01 AM
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Posted by: peteralter on Dec 31, 2008 11:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's be real! I am sure politicians and religious extremists love this kind of stuff, and so do arm dealers and all the middle people involved (up to the arm companies).
Sad! Very sad! Very sad that not more people from both sides don't see this, but then maybe they are not reading what I am reading (or writing)!
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Posted by: Jersey Devil on Dec 31, 2008 12:35 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only recourse will come when an Atomic Bomb vaporizes the entire nation of Israel as their God forsakes them for violating the laws of Moses.
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» RE: Switching Places
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» If Gaza was populated by Jews, they would never have been so stupid as to fire rockets at anyone
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: TiredoftheLies on Dec 31, 2008 12:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Nothing will change until...
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Nothing will change until...
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: common intelligence on Dec 31, 2008 1:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a mental affliction.
When a group of people or dogs or cats or what ever can't solve their violent tendencies it is because they've been reciting a mantra of violence so long it has corrupted their mind stream so much that they are unable to see or visualize or feel anything but violence and vengeance.
It has become their identity because it is congruent to their blind "ero"gent belief.
Until you people, who ever you are, realize this,
no argument you can muster up can justify who's right and who's wrong, for however long.
When people tattoo their body with an attitude they tend to embrace that as their identity and it isn't easily removed. The inner scar will remain.
The same is true of constantly reciting a mantra of retaliation violence and vengeance. Their minds become corrupted and stained so much they can not get past it. Get that?
THEY CAN NOT GET PAST IT.
So for all you that would rather debate who's right and who's wrong, pushing ego, instead of and resolution by justifying a position, you'll never clear your own mind stream either.
A solution to the Israeli / Palestinian dilemma rests on a third party to intervene between Israeli and Palestine, physically!
One thing for sure though is the United States is just exacerbating the problem by "standing behind" Israeli retaliation. This is absolutely wrong.
But with as many Israelis that have infiltrated the very fabric of the American government they have brought their mental disease into our country and it is infecting the US now.
Have no doubt about it either, both Israeli and Palestinian mind sets of violence and vengeance has become a mental disease.
Only when it is dealt with as such can the problem begin to be cured. And any other approach is nothing more that other people catching the disease.
The only inoculation for it is to not feed the disease by accepting any justification for the violence.
The disease needs to be isolated and contained.
Then Peace must be taught or no peace can be learned.
But then too, what do we know about peace?
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Posted by: AJR Journal on Dec 31, 2008 5:15 PM
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» RE: What a bunch of losers!
Posted by: emmas
» RE: What a bunch of losers!
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeftWright on Dec 31, 2008 5:52 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rory McCarthy in Jerusalem -guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 5 November 2008 14.32 GMT
A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.
Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured. The violence represented the most serious break in a ceasefire agreed in mid-June, yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm.
Israeli troops crossed into the Gaza Strip late last night near the town of Deir al-Balah. The Israeli military said the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away. Four Israeli soldiers were injured in the operation, two moderately and two lightly, the military said.
One Hamas gunman was killed and Palestinians launched a volley of mortars at the Israeli military. An Israeli air strike then killed five more Hamas fighters. In response, Hamas launched 35 rockets into southern Israel, one reaching the city of Ashkelon.
"This was a pinpoint operation intended to prevent an immediate threat," the Israeli military said in a statement. "There is no intention to disrupt the ceasefire, rather the purpose of the operation was to remove an immediate and dangerous threat posted by the Hamas terror organisation."
In Gaza, a Hamas spokesman, Fawzi Barhoum, said the group had fired rockets out of Gaza as a "response to Israel's massive breach of the truce".
"The Israelis began this tension and they must pay an expensive price. They cannot leave us drowning in blood while they sleep soundly in their beds," he said.
The attack comes shortly before a key meeting this Sunday in Cairo when Hamas and its political rival Fatah will hold talks on reconciling their differences and creating a single, unified government. It will be the first time the two sides have met at this level since fighting a near civil war more than a year ago.
Until now it had appeared both Israel and Hamas, which seized full control of Gaza last summer, had an interest in maintaining the ceasefire. For Israel it has meant an end to the daily barrage of rockets landing in southern towns, particularly Sderot. For Gazans it has meant an end to the regular Israeli military raids that have caused hundreds of casualties, many of them civilian, in the past year. Israel, however, has maintained its economic blockade on the strip, severely limiting imports and preventing all exports from Gaza.
Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, had personally approved the Gaza raid, the Associated Press said. The Israeli military concluded that Hamas was likely to want to continue the ceasefire despite the raid, it said. The ceasefire was due to run for six months and it is still unclear whether it will stretch beyond that limit.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/ world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians
(please close space after uk/)
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
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» RE: Nov. 5, 2008: Gaza truce broken as Israeli raid kills six Hamas gunmen
Posted by: BlueSun
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Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Dec 31, 2008 11:06 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: yurbud on Jan 1, 2009 12:26 AM
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If the Palestinians were not fighting, it would be impossible for the Israelis to sell their violence as self-defense, however flimsy the excuse is now.
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» RE: Israel WANTS another generation of terrorists
Posted by: BlueSun
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Posted by: goodsensecynic on Jan 1, 2009 11:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At the same time, the historical record also bristles with examples of how various peoples, confronted by overwhelming brute force exercised by ruthless enemies, can sometimes refuse to capitulate, and thus inspire future generations to fight on. So, Jewish zealots suffered martyrdom at Masada. So, Joan of Arc was burned at the stake. So, the defenders of the Alamo (at least as represented by Walt Disney) courageously fought to the death.
Sometimes, mirabile dictu, the bloodied and beaten can, Phoenix-like, rise from their ashes, e-emerge and prevail. So, Mr. Churchill inspired the people of London not to collapse despite Nazi rocket fire. Likewise, the Vietnamese were not crushed by the American bombing of Hanoi.
What is the difference between those who were bludgeoned or bombed into submission or oblivion, and those who endured bitter hardship, yet rose to fight again? This I cannot answer. But what lives in the hearts of all oppressors? This I think I can describe.
The common thread that unites the (at least temporary) victors includes an arrogance of privilege (whether justified by some combination of belief in their biological (usually racist) destiny, their political ideology or their religious faith) that persuades the mighty to believe in their "natural" superiority, their special historical purpose or their unique connection to their deity du jour.
From this flows their demonization of the "other," their indifference to suffering and their refusal even to consider good-faith bargaining over fundamental economic issues ("it's the crude, dude!") that are the mani obstacles to a durable peace.
How it might be possible to impose civility and pragmatism upon naked self-interest, ideology and teleology run amok, and thereby calm the distemper of imperialism, Zionism and jihadism is anybody's guess; but, no matter how sappy it may seem, I know of no better season to appeal to whatever "better angels" may be within range.
However improbable it is to imagine that the sanctimonious blow-hards, crackpot militarists, narrowly cunning politicians and mindlessly self-interested corporate interests could, through some unlikely epiphany, come to realize that their own long-term survival depends upon a resolution of seemingly intractible problems, it would do no harm to put pressure on whichever "players" are within reach to come to their senses.
It would be timely to invite all the pertinent "players" to a negotiating table before some fool shoots those few remaining better angels permanently out of the sky.
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Posted by: Garvagh on Jan 1, 2009 11:26 AM
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Posted by: BlueSun on Jan 1, 2009 1:40 PM
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Ever since the UN voted for partition in 1947, and even more after Israel was established in 1948, Palestinian Arabs have been immersing each new generation of children in the most poisonous and intensive propaganda environment of "hate Israel and hate the Jews" since the demise of the Nazi Youth. In the endless hate messages over the refugee camps' loudspeakers, their schoolbooks, tv shows, childrens' websites, sermons in mosques, and speeches by the radical leaders, children are being taught from birth that "Jews are dogs and Christians are pigs," as one widely used elementary schoolbook puts it.
Regardless of whether you do or don't agree with Israel's current strategies (I emphatically don't), the hatred and division is NOT one of Israel's making and exists independent of Israel's actions.
The PLO was formed in 1964 out of an association of independent fedayeen terrorist groups. It's charter calls for the destruction of Israel and the exile of all Jews.
This was three years BEFORE Israel occupied the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula, and Golan Heights.
It is popular to say that if only Israel were to retreat to its pre-1967 borders peace will be possible. But how do the people who believe that reconcile the pre-existence of the PLO, 19 years of unending terrorist attacks, the invasion of the armies of five Arab nations just hours after Israel was first declared 60 years ago, the 1956 war, or the Egyptian mobilization in Israel's border with the Sinai (forcing the UN peacekeepers from the area) and accept Jordanian permission to mass still more Egyptian troops on the border between Israel and the (then) Jordanian-annexed West Bank and then announce their plan to destroy Israel and exterminate the Jews. This war mobilization by Egypt triggered the Israeli pre-emptive attack of 1967 that led to the occupation of the areas that had been used for 19 years as staging grounds for terror attacks and military invasions for 19 years - all prior to the occupation, all prior to the settlements, all prior to Israeli actions invasions of Lebanon or Gaza, all prior to the Israeli harsh treatment of hostile Arab populations in the occupied zones.
How do we explain that for 19 years, Egypt owned the Gaza Strip, Jordan had formally annexed the West Bank, and Syria owned the Golan Heights, yet no country in the Arab world called out for these territories to be given over to their Palestinian occupants as a Palestinian state - at least not until the Arab countries had lost the 1967 war and the territories were under Israeli control. Then, there was a sudden rush to call for a Palestinian state in the occupied territories. Give me a break!
No, the precipitating cause of the Mid-east crisis was the original Palestinian Arab refusal to accept their own homeland in the two-state UN Partition in 1947 and, instead, put all their trust in their fellow Arabs' promises to annihilate the new Jewish state and give everything to the Palestinians. They chose blood over statehood, massacre over peaceful coexistence, and have been paying the price for that tragic mistake ever since - though they and their supporters continue to manufacture new grievances and claims of victimization on an almost daily basis.
Not until the Palestinian Arabs acknowledge their role as the catalyst of this 60-year tragedy, admit they gambled on the wrong horse at the very beginning and continue to back it, and give up their dreams of one day owning and controlling ALL of the land they call Palestine, will it be safe for Israelis to trust them in sincere peace talks. Until then, the continued bloodshed, loss of innocent lives, and tragic consequences of this endless war will continue into the distant future, with dire consequences for all parties.
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» No mention of the Ottoman Empire, the League of Nations
Posted by: Von
» I think when the Palestineans just give in and admit...
Posted by: donl51
» Exactly!
Posted by: suprmark
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Posted by: wisegalah on Jan 1, 2009 10:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We hate to see the destructive, hateful side of ourselves being lived out in someone else. If they keep demonstrating our deficiencies to us we have a choice, either change ourselves or get rid of the other.
The second is the most popular choice because it enables us to continue to blame the other and pretend that we are fine. Very difficult to accept that you are in the wrong especially when you are one of the chose people either jewish or aryan.
Look in the mirror all of you brave Israeli members of the military and you will see the Waffen SS.
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Posted by: Jonalist on Jan 3, 2009 8:42 AM
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Posted by: Mr. Jones on Jan 5, 2009 7:52 AM
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Posted by: iris89 on Jan 6, 2009 9:44 AM
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To learn a lot more, go to:
[1] http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/
[2] http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209
[3] http://jude3.proboards92.com/
iris89
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Posted by: 2thepoint on Dec 31, 2008 2:46 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
World Net Daily:
"Palestinian children are taught to hate Jews, to glorify "jihad" (holy war), violence, death and child martyrdom almost from birth, as an essential part of their culture and destiny.
As captured on an Israeli video documentary produced in 1998, a "Sesame Street"-like children's program called the "Children's Club" -- complete with puppet shows, songs, Mickey Mouse and other characters -- focused on inculcating intense hatred of Jews and a passion for engaging in and celebrating violence against them in a perpetual "jihad" until the day the Israeli flags come down from above "Palestinian land" and the Palestinian flag is raised.
Palestinian children throwing rocks at an Israeli military vehicle.
In one song on the "Children's Club," very young children are shown singing songs about wanting to become "suicide warriors" and to take up "a machine gun" to direct "violence, anger, anger, anger" against Israelis."
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» I left this one out..
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: I left this one out..
Posted by: hilaryuk
» Right on, hilaryuk
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: I left this one out..
Posted by: Von
» History according to...........
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: History according to...........
Posted by: Von
» RE: History according to...........a Holocaust deny-er!!
Posted by: harryf200
» oh god
Posted by: Von
» RE: History according to...........a Holocaust deny-er!!
Posted by: Von
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: sakul72
» and the Jewish terror group KACH
Posted by: Von
» Quite so ... a state born of terrorism ...
Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: sakul72
» 2thepoint still has his house duct-taped
Posted by: Von
» 2thepoint is resorting to name calling to make his /her point!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: Von
» And what about Palestinians in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan?
Posted by: maxpayne
» Geez..I wonder why?
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: Cybershaman
» World Net Daily?!? They say that Soybeans turn children into homosexuals!
Posted by: fanny666
» RE: 2thepoint: YOU'RE Doing just fine!
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Doing just fine!
Posted by: oneerc
» RE: Israelis on the other hand just use world wide media
Posted by: 876
» Nov. 5, 2008: Gaza truce broken as Israeli raid kills six Hamas gunmen
Posted by: LeftWright
» Callous Indifference.
Posted by: emmas
» RE: Callous Indifference.
Posted by: emmas
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Posted by: paulmagillsmith on Dec 31, 2008 4:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It must also be remembered that 46% of Palestinians are 15 or younger, so this will bode ill for Israelis for generations unless they learn the art of coming to a peaceful solution through compromise & decency. Might isn't right, only right-winged philosophy.
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» RE: I know I wouldn't stop fighting Israel until my dying breath
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: I know I wouldn't stop fighting Israel until my dying breath
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: I know I wouldn't stop fighting Israel until my dying breath
Posted by: sakul72
» RE: All the money wasted on blowing things up!
Posted by: Cybershaman
» I don't think you know what goes on...
Posted by: donl51
» Your statement is ridiculous
Posted by: mgmyers79
» RE: Your statement is ridiculous
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Your statement is ridiculous
Posted by: mgmyers79
» About your Virginia analogy...
Posted by: realist
» General Lee and Hamas
Posted by: mgmyers79
» Thankyou, mgmyers, for pointing out how ridiculous a comparison
Posted by: paulmagillsmith
» RE: General Lee and Hamas
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: General Lee and Hamas
Posted by: mgmyers79
» Finally, someone who gets it! N/T
Posted by: 2thepoint
» for your reading enjoyment
Posted by: Von
» You're a perfect example of a Disease carrier, a Violent rabid infected Mind
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: beeden on Dec 31, 2008 4:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is unconscionable that the Israeli government/military, lying fat on their "holocaust conscience", should be a party to such carnage. Palestinian families are daily and deliberately traumatised in an act of genocide, with the meticulous precision of a Nazi death camp. The horrors perpetuated on the Jewish people in the past by the Nazis are now the Israeli people's favoured tools of oppression.
In the future, there will be a Palestinian Museum of their Holocaust, outlining the history of terrors daily faced by an entire population, terrorised "because they were not Jewish", of land stolen, incarcerations and torture, children and the elderly left without food or medical aid.
When the Jewish people fought for their people in the Warsaw ghetto, their weapons were small firearms and home-made bombs, no tanks, no fighter jets, no specialized army, just citizens concerned about the conditions of life imposed upon them by the Nazis, the people who fought this injustice were called freedom fighters by the people they fought for, just as the Palestinians today call their warriors.
What once were warriors, the Jewish people, have become mass murderers, inflicting death and injury upon the innocent ( shooting fish in a barrel and hoping to hit the big one ), whatever conscience humanity was to attain on the history of the Jewish holocaust, has been cast aside with the indiscriminate bloodbath of Israeli International Relations, " for a few shekels made from stolen land ".
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» RE: Once Were Warriors
Posted by: justgreenleaf
» Do you actually know anything about history?
Posted by: Crazy H
» Amazing!..what goes around comes around...
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Once Were Warriors
Posted by: metrognome
» RE: Once Were Warriors
Posted by: beeden
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Dec 31, 2008 5:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
War of Drugs is ridiculous because as long as a farmer can make more money producing drug crops instead of food crops, he will continue.
Further, since Man has always found ways to "Get High", this is a typical Human behavior.
for every field you burn, every High on you imprison, another will take his place.
So goes the 'War On Terror'. If you do not change the factors which make it beneficial, you'll never rid the world of Terrosit activities.
first you need give them nothing to 'Rally the Troops' about.Then you must show some level of comprehension regarding their grievances (many are legitmate but Politically unpopular). So you have to also turn the screws own your former 'Allies', showing which of their behaviors are unacceptable too.
so take away the Profitability of growing drugs and take way the 'ammo'(reasons for) of Terrorist acts . Reduce the Desire (or need) to Get High and Reduce the 'glory' High of Terrorism.
They are basically the same Dilemas, with similar solutions...These 'Wars' can only be fought in the Hearts & Minds of Men, not in the Streets or fields.
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» Right
Posted by: mgmyers79
» Damn right. Remove WOD and the hemp ban is removed and then so too is dependence on foreign oil and
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: Schlarmie on Dec 31, 2008 6:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's see...Because the Palestineans refuse to relinquish their country and submit to life as an occupied people, they should be incinerated along with all who are unfortunate enough to be in the way of Zionist ambitions?
Amazing logic.
You really DO need to educate yourself about the history of the middle east. And while you're at it, treat youself to some history of the Indigenous people who inhabited this hemisphere prior to Columbus' invasion. I'm sure that you will find that there are MANY similarities regarding the treatment of people who obstruct EMPIRES.
I heard that Zbigniew Breshinski has been schooling fools this week...maybe he's got room for another in his classroom.
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» RE: Nukem OMG!!!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Nukem OMG!!!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 31, 2008 8:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Nukem
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Nukem GOT IT!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cybershaman on Dec 31, 2008 9:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah... I know it's not 'right' under the ground, but turning a sea of sand into glass might just be enough heat to start a chain reaction.
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» RE: I hope you're kidding...
Posted by: Schlarmie
» RE: I know...
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: I hope you're kidding...
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Crazy H on Dec 31, 2008 10:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
Yo, Spammer -
You just blew it big time. You forgot you were posting to a progressive site, didn't you?
For those few gullible souls who haven't figured this sleazebag out yet: he's not posting his opinon. His sole reason for posting is for that link at the bottom. When he posts here, he posts strongly progressive views but when he posts at the right wing sites he makes suggestions such as this one. I guess he got confused in his daily routine of spamming every site he can get to.
Get a clue, report his comments to Alternet and refuse to donate money until such time as they stop subsidizing spammers.
Jerk
Ulitmate Spam-A-Ninny
.
--------------------------------
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» Crazy!...is a spammer and a troll the same,...and who might it be?
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 31, 2008 6:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Israel's paying no price so far for the past 60+ years and what with
Posted by: hilaryuk
» well, Max,we're back to that two different sects of the Muslim beleaf
Posted by: donl51
» RE: well, Max,we're back to that two different sects of the Muslim beleaf
Posted by: maxpayne
» arab countries
Posted by: jouifocracy
» RE: arab countries
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: arab countries
Posted by: donl51
» RE: arab countries
Posted by: maxpayne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dustdevil on Dec 31, 2008 6:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe that is one of the not so obvious reasons why most people in this country support Israel. Our ancestors were guilty of a very similar crime.
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» RE: History repeats
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: justgreenleaf on Dec 31, 2008 7:31 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Four million Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. It's easy--they ALL leave and go to other Arab states.
No more palestinian state ever.
God would approve.
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» RE: justgreenleaf
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Your reading comprehension needs work . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: I like the disappearing Israel part best!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: I like the disappearing Israel part best!
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: I like the disappearing Israel part best!
Posted by: donl51
» Richard Falk not Hedges.
Posted by: WhatNow?
» justfreenleafwindbag
Posted by: americansheep
» RE: justfreenleafwindbag....no gods!!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: or the Israeli immigrants can go back to Europe- easier than displacing natives of Palestine
Posted by: 876
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Dec 31, 2008 7:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are some differences of course between these circumstances and the way Jews were treated in Europe in the 1930's and 40's. However ineffectively, the Palestinians are trying to fight back, for example. Of course their tormentors only use this as an excuse for even more brutality.
History never repeats itself, but it often rhymes.
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» RE: History Repeats?
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 31, 2008 8:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: ABOUT THE YOUNG PEOPLE
Posted by: americansheep
» AND THAT ENEMY WOULD BE US!
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Dec 31, 2008 8:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The media have yet to truly give all of the facts, that Israel continues to not just occupy the land, but that they are taking more and more land away from the Palestinians! I dare anyone to tell me if their homes were being invaded and occupied that they would not fight back! Enough is enough! When Hamas was legitimately voted into office the Israeli's said they would not even recognize them! WTF!? Whom did the Israeli's want in office, certainly not the democratically elected government that the Palestinian people chose, but a puppet government that Israel could manipulate to it's will! What nerve!
This government, our American government that gives it's tacit support to this atrocious behavior needs to stop! America needs to stop providing aid and defense to Israel now. This will force the Israeli's to the negotiating table!
After the failures that are Afghanistan and Iraq, why is it that Americans still don't understand military might does not achieve the desired result! Military might only achieves the results of inspiring "terrorists"! Just look at Iraq post American invasion - there were never "terrorists" in Saddam's Iraq, the terrorists came into Iraq after the American invasion - why? Because this nation was wrong to go into that country based on lies! Because not only were there no WMD's, but because the world knows that the only reason for the invasion was for the OIL!!
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» Truer words have not been spoken so far...
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Truer words have not been spoken so far...
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Truer words have not been spoken so far...
Posted by: donl51
» RE: The real criminals.........
Posted by: Von
» RE: The real criminals.........
Posted by: donl51
» RE: The real criminals.........
Posted by: Von
» Very well said, Spiritgirl, you have your head screwed on correctly
Posted by: paulmagillsmith
» RE: There were no terrorists in Afghanistan either
Posted by: 876
Comments are closed-
Posted by: georgewatson on Dec 31, 2008 8:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: fanny666 on Dec 31, 2008 9:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is *this* how you want your tax dollars used? Write to the Obama transition team and tell them what you think.
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» RE: These are US jets firing US missiles
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: Outspokengrandmother on Dec 31, 2008 9:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Israel is giving the Palestine something to lose...
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Israel is giving the Palestine something to lose...
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Archie1954 on Dec 31, 2008 11:01 AM
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Posted by: peteralter on Dec 31, 2008 11:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's be real! I am sure politicians and religious extremists love this kind of stuff, and so do arm dealers and all the middle people involved (up to the arm companies).
Sad! Very sad! Very sad that not more people from both sides don't see this, but then maybe they are not reading what I am reading (or writing)!
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Posted by: Jersey Devil on Dec 31, 2008 12:35 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only recourse will come when an Atomic Bomb vaporizes the entire nation of Israel as their God forsakes them for violating the laws of Moses.
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» RE: Switching Places
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» If Gaza was populated by Jews, they would never have been so stupid as to fire rockets at anyone
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: TiredoftheLies on Dec 31, 2008 12:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Nothing will change until...
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Nothing will change until...
Posted by: Von
Comments are closed-
Posted by: common intelligence on Dec 31, 2008 1:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a mental affliction.
When a group of people or dogs or cats or what ever can't solve their violent tendencies it is because they've been reciting a mantra of violence so long it has corrupted their mind stream so much that they are unable to see or visualize or feel anything but violence and vengeance.
It has become their identity because it is congruent to their blind "ero"gent belief.
Until you people, who ever you are, realize this,
no argument you can muster up can justify who's right and who's wrong, for however long.
When people tattoo their body with an attitude they tend to embrace that as their identity and it isn't easily removed. The inner scar will remain.
The same is true of constantly reciting a mantra of retaliation violence and vengeance. Their minds become corrupted and stained so much they can not get past it. Get that?
THEY CAN NOT GET PAST IT.
So for all you that would rather debate who's right and who's wrong, pushing ego, instead of and resolution by justifying a position, you'll never clear your own mind stream either.
A solution to the Israeli / Palestinian dilemma rests on a third party to intervene between Israeli and Palestine, physically!
One thing for sure though is the United States is just exacerbating the problem by "standing behind" Israeli retaliation. This is absolutely wrong.
But with as many Israelis that have infiltrated the very fabric of the American government they have brought their mental disease into our country and it is infecting the US now.
Have no doubt about it either, both Israeli and Palestinian mind sets of violence and vengeance has become a mental disease.
Only when it is dealt with as such can the problem begin to be cured. And any other approach is nothing more that other people catching the disease.
The only inoculation for it is to not feed the disease by accepting any justification for the violence.
The disease needs to be isolated and contained.
Then Peace must be taught or no peace can be learned.
But then too, what do we know about peace?
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Posted by: AJR Journal on Dec 31, 2008 5:15 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What a bunch of losers!
Posted by: emmas
» RE: What a bunch of losers!
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeftWright on Dec 31, 2008 5:52 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rory McCarthy in Jerusalem -guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 5 November 2008 14.32 GMT
A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.
Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured. The violence represented the most serious break in a ceasefire agreed in mid-June, yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm.
Israeli troops crossed into the Gaza Strip late last night near the town of Deir al-Balah. The Israeli military said the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away. Four Israeli soldiers were injured in the operation, two moderately and two lightly, the military said.
One Hamas gunman was killed and Palestinians launched a volley of mortars at the Israeli military. An Israeli air strike then killed five more Hamas fighters. In response, Hamas launched 35 rockets into southern Israel, one reaching the city of Ashkelon.
"This was a pinpoint operation intended to prevent an immediate threat," the Israeli military said in a statement. "There is no intention to disrupt the ceasefire, rather the purpose of the operation was to remove an immediate and dangerous threat posted by the Hamas terror organisation."
In Gaza, a Hamas spokesman, Fawzi Barhoum, said the group had fired rockets out of Gaza as a "response to Israel's massive breach of the truce".
"The Israelis began this tension and they must pay an expensive price. They cannot leave us drowning in blood while they sleep soundly in their beds," he said.
The attack comes shortly before a key meeting this Sunday in Cairo when Hamas and its political rival Fatah will hold talks on reconciling their differences and creating a single, unified government. It will be the first time the two sides have met at this level since fighting a near civil war more than a year ago.
Until now it had appeared both Israel and Hamas, which seized full control of Gaza last summer, had an interest in maintaining the ceasefire. For Israel it has meant an end to the daily barrage of rockets landing in southern towns, particularly Sderot. For Gazans it has meant an end to the regular Israeli military raids that have caused hundreds of casualties, many of them civilian, in the past year. Israel, however, has maintained its economic blockade on the strip, severely limiting imports and preventing all exports from Gaza.
Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, had personally approved the Gaza raid, the Associated Press said. The Israeli military concluded that Hamas was likely to want to continue the ceasefire despite the raid, it said. The ceasefire was due to run for six months and it is still unclear whether it will stretch beyond that limit.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/ world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians
(please close space after uk/)
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
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» RE: Nov. 5, 2008: Gaza truce broken as Israeli raid kills six Hamas gunmen
Posted by: BlueSun
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Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Dec 31, 2008 11:06 PM
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Posted by: yurbud on Jan 1, 2009 12:26 AM
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If the Palestinians were not fighting, it would be impossible for the Israelis to sell their violence as self-defense, however flimsy the excuse is now.
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» RE: Israel WANTS another generation of terrorists
Posted by: BlueSun
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Posted by: goodsensecynic on Jan 1, 2009 11:07 AM
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At the same time, the historical record also bristles with examples of how various peoples, confronted by overwhelming brute force exercised by ruthless enemies, can sometimes refuse to capitulate, and thus inspire future generations to fight on. So, Jewish zealots suffered martyrdom at Masada. So, Joan of Arc was burned at the stake. So, the defenders of the Alamo (at least as represented by Walt Disney) courageously fought to the death.
Sometimes, mirabile dictu, the bloodied and beaten can, Phoenix-like, rise from their ashes, e-emerge and prevail. So, Mr. Churchill inspired the people of London not to collapse despite Nazi rocket fire. Likewise, the Vietnamese were not crushed by the American bombing of Hanoi.
What is the difference between those who were bludgeoned or bombed into submission or oblivion, and those who endured bitter hardship, yet rose to fight again? This I cannot answer. But what lives in the hearts of all oppressors? This I think I can describe.
The common thread that unites the (at least temporary) victors includes an arrogance of privilege (whether justified by some combination of belief in their biological (usually racist) destiny, their political ideology or their religious faith) that persuades the mighty to believe in their "natural" superiority, their special historical purpose or their unique connection to their deity du jour.
From this flows their demonization of the "other," their indifference to suffering and their refusal even to consider good-faith bargaining over fundamental economic issues ("it's the crude, dude!") that are the mani obstacles to a durable peace.
How it might be possible to impose civility and pragmatism upon naked self-interest, ideology and teleology run amok, and thereby calm the distemper of imperialism, Zionism and jihadism is anybody's guess; but, no matter how sappy it may seem, I know of no better season to appeal to whatever "better angels" may be within range.
However improbable it is to imagine that the sanctimonious blow-hards, crackpot militarists, narrowly cunning politicians and mindlessly self-interested corporate interests could, through some unlikely epiphany, come to realize that their own long-term survival depends upon a resolution of seemingly intractible problems, it would do no harm to put pressure on whichever "players" are within reach to come to their senses.
It would be timely to invite all the pertinent "players" to a negotiating table before some fool shoots those few remaining better angels permanently out of the sky.
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Posted by: Garvagh on Jan 1, 2009 11:26 AM
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Posted by: BlueSun on Jan 1, 2009 1:40 PM
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Ever since the UN voted for partition in 1947, and even more after Israel was established in 1948, Palestinian Arabs have been immersing each new generation of children in the most poisonous and intensive propaganda environment of "hate Israel and hate the Jews" since the demise of the Nazi Youth. In the endless hate messages over the refugee camps' loudspeakers, their schoolbooks, tv shows, childrens' websites, sermons in mosques, and speeches by the radical leaders, children are being taught from birth that "Jews are dogs and Christians are pigs," as one widely used elementary schoolbook puts it.
Regardless of whether you do or don't agree with Israel's current strategies (I emphatically don't), the hatred and division is NOT one of Israel's making and exists independent of Israel's actions.
The PLO was formed in 1964 out of an association of independent fedayeen terrorist groups. It's charter calls for the destruction of Israel and the exile of all Jews.
This was three years BEFORE Israel occupied the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula, and Golan Heights.
It is popular to say that if only Israel were to retreat to its pre-1967 borders peace will be possible. But how do the people who believe that reconcile the pre-existence of the PLO, 19 years of unending terrorist attacks, the invasion of the armies of five Arab nations just hours after Israel was first declared 60 years ago, the 1956 war, or the Egyptian mobilization in Israel's border with the Sinai (forcing the UN peacekeepers from the area) and accept Jordanian permission to mass still more Egyptian troops on the border between Israel and the (then) Jordanian-annexed West Bank and then announce their plan to destroy Israel and exterminate the Jews. This war mobilization by Egypt triggered the Israeli pre-emptive attack of 1967 that led to the occupation of the areas that had been used for 19 years as staging grounds for terror attacks and military invasions for 19 years - all prior to the occupation, all prior to the settlements, all prior to Israeli actions invasions of Lebanon or Gaza, all prior to the Israeli harsh treatment of hostile Arab populations in the occupied zones.
How do we explain that for 19 years, Egypt owned the Gaza Strip, Jordan had formally annexed the West Bank, and Syria owned the Golan Heights, yet no country in the Arab world called out for these territories to be given over to their Palestinian occupants as a Palestinian state - at least not until the Arab countries had lost the 1967 war and the territories were under Israeli control. Then, there was a sudden rush to call for a Palestinian state in the occupied territories. Give me a break!
No, the precipitating cause of the Mid-east crisis was the original Palestinian Arab refusal to accept their own homeland in the two-state UN Partition in 1947 and, instead, put all their trust in their fellow Arabs' promises to annihilate the new Jewish state and give everything to the Palestinians. They chose blood over statehood, massacre over peaceful coexistence, and have been paying the price for that tragic mistake ever since - though they and their supporters continue to manufacture new grievances and claims of victimization on an almost daily basis.
Not until the Palestinian Arabs acknowledge their role as the catalyst of this 60-year tragedy, admit they gambled on the wrong horse at the very beginning and continue to back it, and give up their dreams of one day owning and controlling ALL of the land they call Palestine, will it be safe for Israelis to trust them in sincere peace talks. Until then, the continued bloodshed, loss of innocent lives, and tragic consequences of this endless war will continue into the distant future, with dire consequences for all parties.
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» No mention of the Ottoman Empire, the League of Nations
Posted by: Von
» I think when the Palestineans just give in and admit...
Posted by: donl51
» Exactly!
Posted by: suprmark
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Posted by: wisegalah on Jan 1, 2009 10:44 PM
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We hate to see the destructive, hateful side of ourselves being lived out in someone else. If they keep demonstrating our deficiencies to us we have a choice, either change ourselves or get rid of the other.
The second is the most popular choice because it enables us to continue to blame the other and pretend that we are fine. Very difficult to accept that you are in the wrong especially when you are one of the chose people either jewish or aryan.
Look in the mirror all of you brave Israeli members of the military and you will see the Waffen SS.
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Posted by: Jonalist on Jan 3, 2009 8:42 AM
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Posted by: Mr. Jones on Jan 5, 2009 7:52 AM
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Posted by: iris89 on Jan 6, 2009 9:44 AM
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To learn a lot more, go to:
[1] http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/
[2] http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209
[3] http://jude3.proboards92.com/
iris89
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