COMMENTS: 95
Israel's Four Real Objectives in the Gaza Attacks
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The first bombardment took three minutes and forty seconds. Sixty Israeli F-16 fighter jets bombed fifty sites in Gaza, killing over two hundred Palestinians, and wounding close to a thousand more.
A few hours after the deadly strike, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert convened a press conference in Tel-Aviv. With Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni sitting on his right and Defense Minister Ehud Barak on his left, he declared: “It may take time, and each and every one of us must be patient so we can complete the mission.”
But what exactly, one might ask, is Israel’s mission?
Although Olmert did not say as much, the “mission” includes four distinct objectives.
The first is the destruction of Hamas, a totally unrealistic goal. Even though the loss of hundreds of cadres and some key leaders will no doubt hurt the organization, Hamas is a robust political movement with widespread grassroots support, and it is unlikely to surrender or capitulate to Israeli demands following a military assault. Ironically, Israel’s attempt to destroy Hamas using military force has always ended up strengthening the organization, thus corroborating the notion that power produces its own vulnerability.
The second objective has to do with Israel’s upcoming elections. The assault on Gaza is also being carried out to help Kadima and Labor defeat Likud and its leader Benjamin Netanyhu, who is currently ahead in the polls. It is not coincidental that Netanyahu’s two main competitors, Livni and Barak, were invited to the press conference – since, after the assault, it will be more difficult for Netanyahu to characterize them as “soft” on the Palestinians. Whether or not the devastation in Gaza will help Livni defeat Netanyhu or help Barak gain votes in the February elections is difficult to say, but the strategy of competing with a warmonger like Netanyhu by beating the drums of war says a great deal about all three major contenders.
The third objective involves the Israeli military. After its notable humiliation in Lebanon during the summer of 2006, the IDF has been looking for opportunities to reestablish its global standing. Last Spring it used Syria as its laboratory and now it has decided to focus on Gaza. Emphasizing the mere three minutes and forty seconds it took to bomb fifty sites is just one the ways the Israeli military aims to restore its international reputation.
Finally, Hamas and Fatah have not yet reached an agreement regarding how to proceed when Mahmoud Abbas ends his official term as President of the Palestinian National Authority on January 9th, 2009. One of the outcomes of this assault is that Abbas will remain in power for a while longer since Hamas will be unable to mobilize its supporters in order to force him to resign.
What is clearly missing from this list of Israeli objectives is the attempt to halt the firing of Qassam rockets into Israel’s southern towns. Unlike the objectives I mentioned, which are not discussed by government officials, this one is presented by the government as the operation’s primary objective. Yet, the government is actively misleading the public, since Israel could have put an end to the rockets a long time ago. Indeed, there was relative quiet during the six-months truce with Hamas, a quiet that was broken most often as a reaction to Israeli violence: that is, following the extra-judicial execution of a militant or the imposition of a total blockade which prevented basic goods, like food stuff and medicine, from entering the Gaza Strip. Rather than continuing the truce, the Israeli government has once again chosen to adopt strategies of violence that are tragically akin to the one’s deployed by Hamas, only the Israeli ones are much more lethal.
If the Israeli government really cared about its citizens and the country’s long term ability to sustain itself in the Middle East, it would abandon the use of violence and talk with its enemies.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: MeyravLevine on Dec 29, 2008 10:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why? Could one of the Zionist trolls explain why there is such blanket prohibition against critical analysis of Israeli policy in US main stream media?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Thank you Neve Gordon
Posted by: TheAntagonist
» First of all there are no "Zionist trolls" here, only Muslim Fundie ones. Also they're very ignorant
Posted by: yellow
» To be fair...
Posted by: BreeMass
» This is certainly true but the Zionist fanatics don't hang around nearly as long as the other ones.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: My call has been answered...is AlterNet MSM?
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» RE: yellow, you have admitted you don't know what you are talking about
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» It's you yellow that knows nearly nothing of the conflict.
Posted by: sakul72
» Its fear of the tipping point
Posted by: weathered
» Your post is the usual imcomprehensible BS. Also, you should address the claims of those you dispute
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Your post is the usual imcomprehensible BS. Also, you should address the claims of those you dispute
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Haven't you heard??
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Haven't you heard??
Posted by: 6399
» RE: Haven't you heard??
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Haven't you heard??
Posted by: sunnywater
» unrestrained, rampant anti-semitism everywhere?
Posted by: bizeeb
» UN resolutions condemning Israel
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: Well, questioning Israel's right to keep Palestinians in open air
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» It's obvious that none of you morons actually read what I say anyhow.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: It's obvious that none of you morons actually read what I say anyhow.
Posted by: sunnywater
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bizeeb on Dec 29, 2008 10:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a repeat of 9/11 is going to occur, our continued support for Israel during this "war to the bitter end" will be the trigger. I wonder what the Obama administration is going to do vis-a-vis the current situation in Gaza.
Oh yeah, I forgot that 9/11 was an inside job, as the geniuses from the "9/11 truth movement" keep telling us, so with Bush & co. out of office, we'll have nothing to fear. Yeah right.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: I fear this time the Middle East will literally explode
Posted by: weathered
» RE: What would motivate a country NOT to conduct a complete investgation of such an event?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: I fear this time the Middle East will literally explode
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: I fear this time the Middle East will literally explode
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: I fear this time the Middle East will literally explode
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: I fear this time the Middle East will literally explode
Posted by: sunnywater
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Dec 29, 2008 10:28 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Wait til you read this story!
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Bush fucked the troops
Posted by: Lauren
» The Middle Eastern Press is filled with BS about Jews and Conspiracies. This is well known.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Israel's "holocaust" is different?
Posted by: Lauren
» Um,Sudan, Serbia, Rwanda, China, The Congo, Iran, Guatamala, etc, etc...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Israel's "holocaust" is different?
Posted by: stop_censorship_on_Alternet
» Maybe there is no holocaust in Palestine. Holocaust is a ridiculous term to use concerning Palestine
Posted by: yellow
» yellow, anything wrong with Operation Paperclip
Posted by: Von
» Muslim crimes like 9/11 were far worse.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Muslim crimes like 9/11 were far worse.
Posted by: Von
» 9/11 is NOT worse than Nazi Aggression but it IS worse than Israeli military actions...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Maybe there is no holocaust in Palestine. Holocaust is a ridiculous term to use concerning Palestine
Posted by: buddyedgewood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: weathered on Dec 29, 2008 10:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
May Isarel flourish, just not at the remarkably arrogant and diabolically deceitful and very selfish expense of everyone else.
What should be a very cool player on the World's stage is Global disgrace, nice job and just think it took less than 60 yrs.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: When the other parts of America find out
Posted by: Von
» RE: When the other parts of America find out
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: When the other parts of America find out
Posted by: Von
» RE: When the other parts of America find out
Posted by: sakul72
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus on Dec 29, 2008 11:31 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And there is no way the Jewish state is going to absorb Gaza and West Bank and all its Arab population as part of a single Israeli state. Such a scheme will be the death of the Jewish state as it will make Arabs the majority in Israel.
No Arab government is willing to take Palestinian side. Even PLO is working along with Israel and Jordan to undermine the elected Hamas government.
If one reads the report the UN Human Rights Commission report prepared by Robert Falk, one can see the logic of my suggestion. Israel is causing a slow genocide of the Palestinians in the the Gaza strip.
The world is all talk and no action when it comes to the plight of the weak, especially Palestinians. If the world was going to help the Palestinians, it would have done so by now.
It is time for Palestinians to make the practical choice and move on.
DISCLAIMER: I was raised in a biracial (Sikh father, white Jewish mother), atheist family. I grew up in Newton and Cambridge, MA, and generally identify myself as Jewish culturally. But my suggestion here is based purely on a humanitarian concern for the Palestinians.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Palestinians need to move on - jews drive them from their land
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Palestinians need to move on - jews drive them from their land
Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: Palestinians need to move on - jews drive them from their land
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Palestinians need to move on - jews drive them from their land
Posted by: Bluecat464
» RE: Palestinians need to move on
Posted by: sunnywater
» Sunnywater, I agree with you. The comparison was, however quite poor.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Sunnywater, I agree with you. The comparison was, however quite poor.
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: Sunnywater, I agree with you. The comparison was, however quite poor.
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: Palestinians need to move on
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
» RE: Palestinians need to move on
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Palestinians need to move on
Posted by: Von
» RE: Yellow, start posting under Liar
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» RE: Yellow, start posting under Liar
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Yellow, start posting under Liar
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» RE: Yellow, start posting under Liar
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: solitarysherlockian on Dec 29, 2008 12:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one wins, but death. Congratulations.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Goliath beating up on David
Posted by: 2thepoint
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chorton on Dec 29, 2008 12:25 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The situation in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank - in fact any political situation - is not that simple. It is in fact more complex than the human mind can handle: millions of human beings of all ages, occupations, status and wealth, political factions, ideologies, belief systems, plus mythologies that draw on thousands of years of history, all in a complex world context.
This is all way beyond the capacity of the human mind to coordinate. We need models to think with. Most people can with practice learn to think in terms of relationships between 4 or 5 different components of a model. Beyond that we need nested models. But even a model with three actors and their relationships to each other is a vast improvement on the 2-actor model. The 2 kids in a schoolyard model is static, can't evolve, leads nowhere (except maybe to another war!) Which is undoubtedly why the media keeps pushing it.
Complex thinking takes work - two bullies in a schoolyard is a much easier model to use - but it is well within our capabilities - all of us. It still involves simplification; that can't be helped. It requires fitting models to reality - also hard work, but necessary work if we are to escape from the thought-control masters, from their familiar but Orwellian world!
Think: Israel, Hamas, Palestine, America ... what images do you see? What emotional reactions? How about Moslem, Christian, Arab, Jew?
Try this: Gunmen. Militants. Terrorists. Strongmen. Militants. Extremists. Moslem extremists. Suicide bombers. Fanatics. Islamic Fundamentalists. Jihad. Hamas.
Feeling like Pavlov's dog yet?
Or perhaps for you it's: Zionists. Jewish Extremists. Settlers. Occupiers. Invaders. Defilers. Usurpers. Yankee Dogs! Israel.
Now do you feel like Pavlov's dog?
How about terrified children cowering in shelters and basements? Jewish children? Moslem children? How about children that don't even know yet whether they're Jewish or Moslem?
Go back through the list, slowly. Notice the images that come up, and feel your reaction to each word. And reflect on how glibly they have been used to mentally herd you around.
Now take a deep breath. Shake your head to clear your brain. And start doing the work of really thinking about this situation.
Gaza is under siege. That's a fact. 1.5 million human beings, men and women, children and babies, in what was once a semi-modern city, are cut off from the world, starting to starve, without clean water, and running out of medicine. Their police force decimated, their university destroyed and their hospitals useless, they live in plain view of an enemy in the sky who rains bombs and missiles on them with impunity, without warning. Maybe 3/4 million children in misery, starting to die of malnutrition and disease, and 3/4 million mothers and fathers, uncles and grandmothers, watching helplessly.
And we are told that the real problem is that some of them are making rockets in their basements and shooting back!
They are Hamas, which is Alien, Bad and Wrong. Israel is Like Us, Good, Right and Justified. They are Bringing it On Themselves. We would be reasonable …
Right.
Now let's get out of that mental schoolyard and leave the hot-button words behind. Remember ourselves as human beings. And do some real thinking.
Cheers!
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» RE: Schoolyard Bullies ...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Schoolyard Bullies ...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Schoolyard Bullies ...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Schoolyard Bullies ...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Schoolyard Bullies ...
Posted by: EncinoM
» Similar point, but you're a much better, and more optimistic,
Posted by: bizeeb
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 2thepoint on Dec 29, 2008 1:07 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No doubt Hamas is a terrorist group and is doing Gaza a disservice by constant unprovoked attacks against Israel. Thousands of rockets fired each year is enough for anyone.
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» That may be true, but this is not the time for war
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: That may be true, but this is not the time for war
Posted by: 2thepoint
» I don't even know where to start...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: I don't even know where to start...
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: I don't even know where to start...
Posted by: emmas
» Thanks...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: I don't even know where to start...
Posted by: BreeMass
» Please...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Please...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I don't even know where to start...
Posted by: sakul72
» RE: That may be true, but this is not the time for war
Posted by: f2411
» RE: That may be true, but this is not the time for war
Posted by: EncinoM
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Dec 29, 2008 1:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: PSYCHOPATHS... please lose the CAPS
Posted by: bizeeb
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mwildfire on Dec 29, 2008 4:58 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have long thought that Israel and Palestine should be able to either stand side by side, or as one intermixed state. But it's clear that the Israelis are simply not willing to accept either solution. The only solution that will satisfy them is for the Palestinians to cease to exist, or go far away. What may be the best practical solution for the Palestinians I don't know, but this situation has changed my mind about one thing: I no longer support Israel's right to exist. I think they have forfeited that with 60 years of vicious persecution of the people who happened to be living in their new "homeland" when it was given over to them. That land should now be given back to the Palestinians, and the Israelis should be made to return to the countries they or their parents came from, or seek asylum elsewhere if that won't work in some cases.
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» RE: the right of Israel to exist-hollow argument.
Posted by: compu
» RE: the right of Israel to exist-hollow argument.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gurufree on Dec 29, 2008 5:44 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the Israelis blew the Palestinians backs out, a Chanukah present
spinning and whistling to the ground
like a dreidel
leaves innocents dead in cradles
Rededicating the temple with a bomb blast (precision percussion)
Happy Chanukah! with no discussion
innocents slaughtered so the self righteous can lay blame
violence breeds violence and all in gods name
Under the cover of Holy days, the devil works in mysterious ways
always logical explanations for genocidal actions
only truth will free us from this matrix we’re trapped in
the seventh candle lit the fuse
watch Armegeddon on the evening news
anti-semites blame the Jews
to quote poet Amiri Baraka, “Who?”
leave Oahu in the dark as WWIII sparks
shearling wrapped wolves promote crocodile tear remembrances
and blockbuster mythologies
while amassing more atrocities
the corporate news networks act as if truth telling were simply a hobby
never counting the bodies and lost minds
Diana died over landmines and so did her quest to clean up the mess
the planet is stressed and nations are offered democracy under duress
no matter how forgiving a god, he/she/it can not be impressed
the chosen choosing to kill at will
in retaliation for thrown stones and misguided rockets
the most well armed military pulls the death card from their pocket
fear and privilege a prophetic deception
has the villain thinking he has the ultimate weapon
where are the truth tellers cries to open the jaundiced eyes
overfed, chemically stimulated, baked couch potatoes
hold the key to a new reality
maybe if we, the mute, cry loud and spare not the blind will see
and our conscience will move us to BE HUMAN-ity
caring for the life of others and our planetary mother
the other option . . .
Total Destruction
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: MeyravLevine on Dec 29, 2008 10:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why? Could one of the Zionist trolls explain why there is such blanket prohibition against critical analysis of Israeli policy in US main stream media?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Thank you Neve Gordon
Posted by: TheAntagonist
» First of all there are no "Zionist trolls" here, only Muslim Fundie ones. Also they're very ignorant
Posted by: yellow
» To be fair...
Posted by: BreeMass
» This is certainly true but the Zionist fanatics don't hang around nearly as long as the other ones.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: My call has been answered...is AlterNet MSM?
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» RE: yellow, you have admitted you don't know what you are talking about
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» It's you yellow that knows nearly nothing of the conflict.
Posted by: sakul72
» Its fear of the tipping point
Posted by: weathered
» Your post is the usual imcomprehensible BS. Also, you should address the claims of those you dispute
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Your post is the usual imcomprehensible BS. Also, you should address the claims of those you dispute
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Haven't you heard??
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Haven't you heard??
Posted by: 6399
» RE: Haven't you heard??
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Haven't you heard??
Posted by: sunnywater
» unrestrained, rampant anti-semitism everywhere?
Posted by: bizeeb
» UN resolutions condemning Israel
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: Well, questioning Israel's right to keep Palestinians in open air
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» It's obvious that none of you morons actually read what I say anyhow.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: It's obvious that none of you morons actually read what I say anyhow.
Posted by: sunnywater
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bizeeb on Dec 29, 2008 10:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a repeat of 9/11 is going to occur, our continued support for Israel during this "war to the bitter end" will be the trigger. I wonder what the Obama administration is going to do vis-a-vis the current situation in Gaza.
Oh yeah, I forgot that 9/11 was an inside job, as the geniuses from the "9/11 truth movement" keep telling us, so with Bush & co. out of office, we'll have nothing to fear. Yeah right.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: I fear this time the Middle East will literally explode
Posted by: weathered
» RE: What would motivate a country NOT to conduct a complete investgation of such an event?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: I fear this time the Middle East will literally explode
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: I fear this time the Middle East will literally explode
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: I fear this time the Middle East will literally explode
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: I fear this time the Middle East will literally explode
Posted by: sunnywater
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Dec 29, 2008 10:28 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Wait til you read this story!
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Bush fucked the troops
Posted by: Lauren
» The Middle Eastern Press is filled with BS about Jews and Conspiracies. This is well known.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Israel's "holocaust" is different?
Posted by: Lauren
» Um,Sudan, Serbia, Rwanda, China, The Congo, Iran, Guatamala, etc, etc...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Israel's "holocaust" is different?
Posted by: stop_censorship_on_Alternet
» Maybe there is no holocaust in Palestine. Holocaust is a ridiculous term to use concerning Palestine
Posted by: yellow
» yellow, anything wrong with Operation Paperclip
Posted by: Von
» Muslim crimes like 9/11 were far worse.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Muslim crimes like 9/11 were far worse.
Posted by: Von
» 9/11 is NOT worse than Nazi Aggression but it IS worse than Israeli military actions...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Maybe there is no holocaust in Palestine. Holocaust is a ridiculous term to use concerning Palestine
Posted by: buddyedgewood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: weathered on Dec 29, 2008 10:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
May Isarel flourish, just not at the remarkably arrogant and diabolically deceitful and very selfish expense of everyone else.
What should be a very cool player on the World's stage is Global disgrace, nice job and just think it took less than 60 yrs.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: When the other parts of America find out
Posted by: Von
» RE: When the other parts of America find out
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: When the other parts of America find out
Posted by: Von
» RE: When the other parts of America find out
Posted by: sakul72
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus on Dec 29, 2008 11:31 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And there is no way the Jewish state is going to absorb Gaza and West Bank and all its Arab population as part of a single Israeli state. Such a scheme will be the death of the Jewish state as it will make Arabs the majority in Israel.
No Arab government is willing to take Palestinian side. Even PLO is working along with Israel and Jordan to undermine the elected Hamas government.
If one reads the report the UN Human Rights Commission report prepared by Robert Falk, one can see the logic of my suggestion. Israel is causing a slow genocide of the Palestinians in the the Gaza strip.
The world is all talk and no action when it comes to the plight of the weak, especially Palestinians. If the world was going to help the Palestinians, it would have done so by now.
It is time for Palestinians to make the practical choice and move on.
DISCLAIMER: I was raised in a biracial (Sikh father, white Jewish mother), atheist family. I grew up in Newton and Cambridge, MA, and generally identify myself as Jewish culturally. But my suggestion here is based purely on a humanitarian concern for the Palestinians.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Palestinians need to move on - jews drive them from their land
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Palestinians need to move on - jews drive them from their land
Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: Palestinians need to move on - jews drive them from their land
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Palestinians need to move on - jews drive them from their land
Posted by: Bluecat464
» RE: Palestinians need to move on
Posted by: sunnywater
» Sunnywater, I agree with you. The comparison was, however quite poor.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Sunnywater, I agree with you. The comparison was, however quite poor.
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: Sunnywater, I agree with you. The comparison was, however quite poor.
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: Palestinians need to move on
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
» RE: Palestinians need to move on
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Palestinians need to move on
Posted by: Von
» RE: Yellow, start posting under Liar
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» RE: Yellow, start posting under Liar
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Yellow, start posting under Liar
Posted by: MeyravLevine
» RE: Yellow, start posting under Liar
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: solitarysherlockian on Dec 29, 2008 12:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one wins, but death. Congratulations.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Goliath beating up on David
Posted by: 2thepoint
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chorton on Dec 29, 2008 12:25 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The situation in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank - in fact any political situation - is not that simple. It is in fact more complex than the human mind can handle: millions of human beings of all ages, occupations, status and wealth, political factions, ideologies, belief systems, plus mythologies that draw on thousands of years of history, all in a complex world context.
This is all way beyond the capacity of the human mind to coordinate. We need models to think with. Most people can with practice learn to think in terms of relationships between 4 or 5 different components of a model. Beyond that we need nested models. But even a model with three actors and their relationships to each other is a vast improvement on the 2-actor model. The 2 kids in a schoolyard model is static, can't evolve, leads nowhere (except maybe to another war!) Which is undoubtedly why the media keeps pushing it.
Complex thinking takes work - two bullies in a schoolyard is a much easier model to use - but it is well within our capabilities - all of us. It still involves simplification; that can't be helped. It requires fitting models to reality - also hard work, but necessary work if we are to escape from the thought-control masters, from their familiar but Orwellian world!
Think: Israel, Hamas, Palestine, America ... what images do you see? What emotional reactions? How about Moslem, Christian, Arab, Jew?
Try this: Gunmen. Militants. Terrorists. Strongmen. Militants. Extremists. Moslem extremists. Suicide bombers. Fanatics. Islamic Fundamentalists. Jihad. Hamas.
Feeling like Pavlov's dog yet?
Or perhaps for you it's: Zionists. Jewish Extremists. Settlers. Occupiers. Invaders. Defilers. Usurpers. Yankee Dogs! Israel.
Now do you feel like Pavlov's dog?
How about terrified children cowering in shelters and basements? Jewish children? Moslem children? How about children that don't even know yet whether they're Jewish or Moslem?
Go back through the list, slowly. Notice the images that come up, and feel your reaction to each word. And reflect on how glibly they have been used to mentally herd you around.
Now take a deep breath. Shake your head to clear your brain. And start doing the work of really thinking about this situation.
Gaza is under siege. That's a fact. 1.5 million human beings, men and women, children and babies, in what was once a semi-modern city, are cut off from the world, starting to starve, without clean water, and running out of medicine. Their police force decimated, their university destroyed and their hospitals useless, they live in plain view of an enemy in the sky who rains bombs and missiles on them with impunity, without warning. Maybe 3/4 million children in misery, starting to die of malnutrition and disease, and 3/4 million mothers and fathers, uncles and grandmothers, watching helplessly.
And we are told that the real problem is that some of them are making rockets in their basements and shooting back!
They are Hamas, which is Alien, Bad and Wrong. Israel is Like Us, Good, Right and Justified. They are Bringing it On Themselves. We would be reasonable …
Right.
Now let's get out of that mental schoolyard and leave the hot-button words behind. Remember ourselves as human beings. And do some real thinking.
Cheers!
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» RE: Schoolyard Bullies ...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Schoolyard Bullies ...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Schoolyard Bullies ...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Schoolyard Bullies ...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Schoolyard Bullies ...
Posted by: EncinoM
» Similar point, but you're a much better, and more optimistic,
Posted by: bizeeb
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 2thepoint on Dec 29, 2008 1:07 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No doubt Hamas is a terrorist group and is doing Gaza a disservice by constant unprovoked attacks against Israel. Thousands of rockets fired each year is enough for anyone.
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» That may be true, but this is not the time for war
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: That may be true, but this is not the time for war
Posted by: 2thepoint
» I don't even know where to start...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: I don't even know where to start...
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: I don't even know where to start...
Posted by: emmas
» Thanks...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: I don't even know where to start...
Posted by: BreeMass
» Please...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Please...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I don't even know where to start...
Posted by: sakul72
» RE: That may be true, but this is not the time for war
Posted by: f2411
» RE: That may be true, but this is not the time for war
Posted by: EncinoM
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Dec 29, 2008 1:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: PSYCHOPATHS... please lose the CAPS
Posted by: bizeeb
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Posted by: mwildfire on Dec 29, 2008 4:58 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have long thought that Israel and Palestine should be able to either stand side by side, or as one intermixed state. But it's clear that the Israelis are simply not willing to accept either solution. The only solution that will satisfy them is for the Palestinians to cease to exist, or go far away. What may be the best practical solution for the Palestinians I don't know, but this situation has changed my mind about one thing: I no longer support Israel's right to exist. I think they have forfeited that with 60 years of vicious persecution of the people who happened to be living in their new "homeland" when it was given over to them. That land should now be given back to the Palestinians, and the Israelis should be made to return to the countries they or their parents came from, or seek asylum elsewhere if that won't work in some cases.
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» RE: the right of Israel to exist-hollow argument.
Posted by: compu
» RE: the right of Israel to exist-hollow argument.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gurufree on Dec 29, 2008 5:44 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the Israelis blew the Palestinians backs out, a Chanukah present
spinning and whistling to the ground
like a dreidel
leaves innocents dead in cradles
Rededicating the temple with a bomb blast (precision percussion)
Happy Chanukah! with no discussion
innocents slaughtered so the self righteous can lay blame
violence breeds violence and all in gods name
Under the cover of Holy days, the devil works in mysterious ways
always logical explanations for genocidal actions
only truth will free us from this matrix we’re trapped in
the seventh candle lit the fuse
watch Armegeddon on the evening news
anti-semites blame the Jews
to quote poet Amiri Baraka, “Who?”
leave Oahu in the dark as WWIII sparks
shearling wrapped wolves promote crocodile tear remembrances
and blockbuster mythologies
while amassing more atrocities
the corporate news networks act as if truth telling were simply a hobby
never counting the bodies and lost minds
Diana died over landmines and so did her quest to clean up the mess
the planet is stressed and nations are offered democracy under duress
no matter how forgiving a god, he/she/it can not be impressed
the chosen choosing to kill at will
in retaliation for thrown stones and misguided rockets
the most well armed military pulls the death card from their pocket
fear and privilege a prophetic deception
has the villain thinking he has the ultimate weapon
where are the truth tellers cries to open the jaundiced eyes
overfed, chemically stimulated, baked couch potatoes
hold the key to a new reality
maybe if we, the mute, cry loud and spare not the blind will see
and our conscience will move us to BE HUMAN-ity
caring for the life of others and our planetary mother
the other option . . .
Total Destruction
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