COMMENTS: 179
Israel's 'Crime Against Humanity'
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Israel’s siege of Gaza, largely unseen by the outside world because of Jerusalem’s refusal to allow humanitarian aid workers, reporters and photographers access to Gaza, rivals the most egregious crimes carried out at the height of apartheid by the South African regime. It comes close to the horrors visited on Sarajevo by the Bosnian Serbs. It has disturbing echoes of the Nazi ghettos of Lodz and Warsaw.
“This is a stain on what is left of Israeli morality,” I was told by Richard N. Veits, the former U.S. ambassador to Jordan who led a delegation from the U.S. Council for the National Interest Foundation to Gaza to meet Hamas leaders this past summer. “I am almost breathless discussing this subject. It is so myopic. Washington, of course, is a handmaiden to all this. The Israeli manipulation of a population in this manner is comparable to some of the crimes that took place against civilian populations fifty years ago.”
The U.N. special rapporteur for human rights in the occupied Palestinian territory, former Princeton University law professor Richard Falk, calls what Israel is doing to the 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza “a crime against humanity.” Falk, who is Jewish, has condemned the collective punishment of the Palestinians in Gaza as “a flagrant and massive violation of international humanitarian law as laid down in Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.” He has asked for “the International Criminal Court to investigate the situation, and determine whether the Israeli civilian leaders and military commanders responsible for the Gaza siege should be indicted and prosecuted for violations of international criminal law.”
Falk, while condemning the rocket attacks by the militant group Hamas, which he points out are also criminal violations of international law, goes on to say that “such Palestinian behavior does not legalize Israel’s imposition of a collective punishment of a life- and health-threatening character on the people of Gaza, and should not distract the U.N. or international society from discharging their fundamental moral and legal duty to render protection to the Palestinian people.”
“It is an unfolding humanitarian catastrophe that each day poses the entire 1.5 million Gazans to an unspeakable ordeal, to a struggle to survive in terms of their health,” Falk said when I reached him by phone in California shortly before he left for Israel. “This is an increasingly precarious condition. A recent study reports that 46 percent of all Gazan children suffer from acute anemia. There are reports that the sonic booms associated with Israeli overflights have caused widespread deafness, especially among children. Gazan children need thousands of hearing aids. Malnutrition is extremely high in a number of different dimensions and affects 75 percent of Gazans. There are widespread mental disorders, especially among young people without the will to live. Over 50 percent of Gazan children under the age of 12 have been found to have no will to live.”
Gaza now spends 12 hours a day without power, which can be a death sentence to the severely ill in hospitals. There are few drugs and little medicine, including no cancer or cystic fibrosis medication. Hospitals have generators but often lack fuel. Medical equipment, including one of Gaza’s three CT scanners, has been destroyed by power surges and fluctuations. Medical staff cannot control the temperature of incubators for newborns. And Israel has revoked most exit visas, meaning some of those who need specialized care, including cancer patients and those in need of kidney dialysis, have died. Of the 230 Gazans estimated to have died last year because they were denied proper medical care, several spent their final hours at Israeli crossing points where they were refused entry into Israel. The statistics gathered on children—half of Gaza’s population is under the age of 17—are increasingly grim. About 45 percent of children in Gaza have iron deficiency from a lack of fruit and vegetables, and 18 percent have stunted growth.
“It is macabre,” Falk said. “I don’t know of anything that exactly fits this situation. People have been referring to the Warsaw ghetto as the nearest analog in modern times.”
“There is no structure of an occupation that endured for decades and involved this kind of oppressive circumstances,” the rapporteur added. “The magnitude, the deliberateness, the violations of international humanitarian law, the impact on the health, lives and survival and the overall conditions warrant the characterization of a crime against humanity. This occupation is the direct intention by the Israeli military and civilian authorities. They are responsible and should be held accountable.”
The point of this Israeli siege, ostensibly, is to break Hamas, the radical Islamic group that was elected to power in 2007. But Hamas has repeatedly proposed long-term truces with Israel and offered to negotiate a permanent truce. During the last cease-fire, established through Egyptian intermediaries in July, Hamas upheld the truce although Israel refused to ease the blockade. It was Israel that, on Nov. 4, initiated an armed attack that violated the truce and killed six Palestinians. It was only then that Hamas resumed firing rockets at Israel. Palestinians have launched more than 200 rockets on Israel since the latest round of violence began. There have been no Israeli casualties.
“This is a crime of survival,” Falk said of the rocket attacks. “Israel has put the Gazans in a set of circumstances where they either have to accept whatever is imposed on them or resist in any way available to them. That is a horrible dilemma to impose upon a people. This does not alleviate the Palestinians, and Gazans in particular, for accountability for doing these acts involving rocket fire, but it also imposes some responsibility on Israel for creating these circumstances.”
Israel seeks to break the will of the Palestinians to resist. The Israeli government has demonstrated little interest in diplomacy or a peaceful solution. The rapid expansion of Jewish settlements on the West Bank is an effort to thwart the possibility of a two-state solution by gobbling up vast tracts of Palestinian real estate. Israel also appears to want to thrust the impoverished Gaza Strip onto Egypt. There are now dozens of tunnels, the principal means for food and goods, connecting Gaza to Egypt. Israel permits the tunnels to operate, most likely as part of an effort to further cut Gaza off from Israel.
“Israel, all along, has not been prepared to enter into diplomatic process that gives the Palestinians a viable state,” Falk said. “They [the Israelis] feel time is on their side. They feel they can create enough facts on the ground so people will come to the conclusion a viable state cannot emerge.”
The use of terror and hunger to break a hostile population is one of the oldest forms of warfare. I watched the Bosnian Serbs employ the same tactic in Sarajevo. Those who orchestrate such sieges do not grasp the terrible rage born of long humiliation, indiscriminate violence and abuse. A father or a mother whose child dies because of a lack of vaccines or proper medical care does not forget. A boy whose ill grandmother dies while detained at an Israel checkpoint does not forget. All who endure humiliation, abuse and the murder of family members do not forget. This rage becomes a virus within those who, eventually, stumble out into the daylight. Is it any wonder that 71 percent of children interviewed at a school in Gaza recently said they wanted to be a “martyr”?
The Israelis in Gaza, like the American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, are foolishly breeding the next generation of militants and Islamic radicals. Jihadists, enraged by the injustices done by Israel and the United States, seek to carry out reciprocal acts of savagery, even at the cost of their own lives. The violence unleashed on Palestinian children will, one day, be the violence unleashed on Israeli children. This is the tragedy of Gaza. This is the tragedy of Israel.
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Posted by: eaanders on Dec 16, 2008 1:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com /2008/12/12/the_changing_face_of_israel/
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» WATCH OUT FOR THE JEWISH INTERNET DEFENSE FORCE..not kidding
Posted by: susie_smalls
» Oh, ScrewTHE JEWISH INTERNET DEFENSE FORCE..not kidding either!
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: talkville on Dec 16, 2008 1:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Modern Times, Modern War-lords. Un-free days. Ah! Western "Civilization"! Gotta always consider the Shadow. 'Cause the Shadow Knows, and the Shadow Wants. And Shadows don't really have any concern for what happens on the Light Side. So long as our modern Body is injected with the tribal Soul, savagery will remain Constant and only Styles and Manners will be Variable.
It's way past time to address the overcoming of Savagery and its continuous Improvement, Perfection and Refinement in the interests of Some. So far, all we can show evidence of is our Animality. It's time to get working on developing the Human. Everywhere.
Its about Freedom. The Freedom of a Human, not an Animal. On each and every side of the Issue. We're not there yet; we're still a long, long, long way away. Old Habits die hard.
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» The Shadow Knows.....
Posted by: johnorford
» RE: The Shadow Knows.....
Posted by: Timberbee
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Posted by: lindajrjt on Dec 16, 2008 2:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh and while we are at it and to keep things very fair we should also charge other parties with war crimes such as the current US President and the ones that support torture and unlawful detainment of prisoners just to name an example. Hey don't forget China and it's human rights abuses too...
I generally like to be a decent human being towards others; but it gets very hard when I keep hearing these kinds of stories over and over again with no lesson learned from the past. Why bother studying history if we are going to repeat the same mistakes and not learn from them?
We all need to learn how to live in peace and prosperity no matter what our beliefs are because right now this Earth is the only home we have.
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» RE: The Jews invented genocide
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: The Jews invented genocide
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: The Jews invented genocide
Posted by: nap
» RE: War Crimes - No, they are the "Chosen ones" -----
Posted by: symcokid
» WHAT GOES AROUND,COMES AROUND!
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: wisegalah on Dec 16, 2008 2:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once you accept a belief system as the basis of life and as a structure which gives meaning to your life or from which you derive a sense of yourself then these things will be done.
Many believers will identify themselves firstly as jews, muslims, christians, athiests, socialists, etc. It follows that if anybody does not identify themselves in that way, they are not as good, moral, intelligent, human, chosen, worthy, valuable, etc as I and my fellow believers are.
Further more their unwillingness to accept my beliefs is a challenge to my view of life. The fact that they may be more intelligent, moral, etc despite not assenting to my beliefs is an attack upon my position, and an attack upon my identity and my sense of myself and my self worth.
To defend my fragile sense of myself I am entitled to destroy those who are not of my persuasion.
What we all need to do is to examine the basis of belief itself. What function does it play in the lives of human beings. No-one is born a believer. We are all forced to conform and to accept the beliefs of our carers.
Subject any belief system and what do you find. All are second hand. All are entirely arbitrary. All will pass away in time, as have thousands of other beliefs of the past.
Basically all political, nationalistic and religious beliefs are simply rubbish and not worth the life of a single person.
So much suffering for absolute crap.
How mad is humanity?
,
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» What Belief System?? Nothing left of it Other than Racism ..
Posted by: aamer923
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Posted by: eidel on Dec 16, 2008 4:50 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I understand the article and the responses, even though Gaza, on a daily basis attacks Israel, Israel is at fault for responding. Yet Israel, in spite of these attacks sends food, money, and medical supplies. Is the border closed, of course it is, why allow terrorist into your country? Think about it, that is suicide. My question is why not confront Egypt where Gazans are shot on sight, to open it's borders to fellow Muslims and send in something besides arms?
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» RE: eneri
Posted by: Erin
» And in addition to what Erin has said.....
Posted by: David/Daoud
» RE: And in addition to what Erin has said.....
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: eneri
Posted by: biwee
» RE: eneri
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: eneri
Posted by: shoshiw
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: Cesco8
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: moflard
» Achh, I forgot...
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: wane
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: shoshiw
» RE: eneri
Posted by: jouifocracy
» RE: eneri
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» An antisemetic charge is a trick to change the topic/shift the burden
Posted by: susie_smalls
» RE: An antisemetic charge is a trick to change the topic/shift the burden
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: An antisemetic charge is a trick to change the topic/shift the burden
Posted by: susie_smalls
» RE: An antisemetic charge is a trick to change the topic/shift the burden
Posted by: insitefull_1
» RE: An antisemetic charge is a trick to change the topic/shift the burden
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: An antisemetic charge is a trick to change the topic/shift the burden
Posted by: moflard
» Israel demands another Academy Award
Posted by: weathered
» RE: eneri
Posted by: wane
» RE: eneri
Posted by: pkbw
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Posted by: Erin on Dec 16, 2008 4:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: weathered on Dec 16, 2008 5:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It never had to get like this? Israel could have easily dovetailed its standing onto the world's stage as an honorable, esteemable player. Instead they took the dark, sneaky and very selfish road.
For all that Israel has they remain spiritually bankrupt. Humility eludes them, denial becomes them and trouble follows them.
A country that would much rather be right, than happy. Ultimately they're neither and it shows. While this manipulating pathology of entitlement is truly endemic to Israel, its infected America now too and what's tragic is we have yet to see an American Jew of any respect and standing come out and confront the remarkable arrogance and diabolic deceit that is political Israel.
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» what is tragic is that American Jews who do speak out are ignored
Posted by: realtruther
» RE: Yes you’re right all 3 of them are ignored
Posted by: 876
» RE: Yes you’re right all 3 of them are ignored.. oh come on!
Posted by: DaBear
» yep, and they're ignored by the mainstream, which toes the Likud line
Posted by: realtruther
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Posted by: johnorford on Dec 16, 2008 5:32 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: who are they?
Posted by: almendoza2
» RE: who are they? they are humans!
Posted by: muktuk
» orthodox Judaism and Zionism are bad for Jewish culture
Posted by: realtruther
» RE: orthodox Judaism and Zionism are bad for Jewish culture
Posted by: DaBear
» mind you I do not oppose all forms of zionism
Posted by: realtruther
» RE: orthodox Judaism and Zionism are bad for Jewish culture
Posted by: insitefull_1
» Winning the 1967 war against the entire middle east changed everything
Posted by: susie_smalls
» RE: Winning the 1967 war against the entire middle east changed everything
Posted by: insitefull_1
» RE: Winning the 1967 war against the entire middle east changed everything
Posted by: weathered
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Posted by: Lauren on Dec 16, 2008 7:54 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My first reaction was to agree with you, but then I thought maybe we are too close to it, there have been some pretty bad other guys. How is Bush the worst?
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» RE: Sorry, Lauren
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Sorry, Lauren
Posted by: jouifocracy
» Mao
Posted by: nap
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Posted by: symcokid on Dec 16, 2008 8:40 AM
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Posted by: pkbw on Dec 19, 2008 4:38 AM
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Posted by: Life of Illusion on Dec 16, 2008 6:50 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its a shame when your neighbor starts shooting back, and he's better armed and a better shot. Your friend goes to another house. Everyone talks about what an ass your neighbor is, as your friend starts shooting again. It helps that your friend is the mayor and everyone in the neighborhood voted for him.
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» RE: Nice analogy
Posted by: Crazy H
» Too bad the original shooters were austrian jews
Posted by: susie_smalls
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Posted by: muktuk on Dec 16, 2008 7:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's happening in Gaza and the west bank is very reminiscent of the American holocaust when the United States created reservations for the native Americans who were driven from their ancestral lands. The last "battle" of the American Indian Wars was the massacre at Wounded Knee. genocide by any other name.
Overpopulation and crowding stress are the enemies of Israel and of the occupied Palestinian territories- common enemies that both "sides" have failed to recognise.
The Israeli "settlers" have the highest birth rates in Israel and coupled with Judaic fundamentalism, hostilities towards Palestinians will only increase.
Even good humans do bad things when stressed out.
By the way, great article Chris Hedges!
It is truly shameful that some will charge you with anti-Semitism- they conveniently forget that morality is the first causalty of any conflict. And they have lost theirs.
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» 'anti-semitism' is a cloak of deflection,
Posted by: weathered
» RE: 'anti-semitism' is a cloak of deflection,
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Pakistan
Posted by: 876
» RE: Pakistan
Posted by: Crazy H
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Posted by: sonofloud on Dec 16, 2008 7:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At the very least they should have economic sanctions placed on them.
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» RE: Israel consistently violates UN laws/terms and yet - That's OK, they're the "Chosen few".
Posted by: symcokid
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Posted by: jstepp590 on Dec 16, 2008 9:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That being said, however, just because the Jewish people were treated badly by the Nazis does not give them the right to act like them. Zionism is a failed, aparthied ideology and needs to end, now.
Israel needs to follow international law or lose our support. Americans are getting really tired of this crap. It's like having a friend that gets you into fights with people you don't even know every time you go out.
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» RE: The baffling absurdity
Posted by: 876
» What?
Posted by: moflard
» What?
Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: What?
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» um, no he didn't.
Posted by: realtruther
» NO..We gave 300,000 US LIVES defeating the nazis/freeing the jews
Posted by: susie_smalls
» RE: NO..We gave 300,000 US LIVES defeating the nazis/freeing the jews
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: NO..We gave 300,000 US LIVES defeating the nazis/freeing the jews
Posted by: moflard
» RE: NO..We gave 300,000 US LIVES defeating the nazis/freeing the jews
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: nazis
Posted by: lindajrjt
» "a friend that gets you into fights with people you don't even know every time you go out"
Posted by: realtruther
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Posted by: moflard on Dec 16, 2008 9:32 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Concept of Membership : Ethnic
Self Identity : Jewish
Normative identity : Collectivist
Spatial Identification : Land of Israel (Biblical)
Temporal Identification : Ancient times and far future
Cultural Identification : Particularist (Chosen People)
Political Culture : Fundamentalist-Messianic
Political Manifestation : Gush Emunim (illegal settlements)
Now it occurred to me I could draw up another, very similar list
Concept of Membership : Ethnic
Self Identity : Aryan
Normative Identity : Collectivist
Spatial Identification : Germany (all land occupied by Germanic peoples in the past)
Temporal Identification : Ancient times to far future
Cultural Identification : Particularist (Master Race)
Political Culture : Fundamentalist-Messianic
Political Manifestatoin : Nazi Party (the Sudetenland etc.)
And so we become what we hate...
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» RE: If not siblings - first cousins
Posted by: babs
» RE: If not siblings - first cousins
Posted by: moflard
» RE: If not siblings - first cousins
Posted by: hophmi
» Close, but no cigar ;-)
Posted by: moflard
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Posted by: harlan8 on Dec 16, 2008 9:39 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences
[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad:
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» RE: The Palestinian Charter
Posted by: babs
» RE: The Palestinian Charter
Posted by: insitefull_1
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Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 16, 2008 10:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: And why are dictators in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc ... "supporting" them?
Posted by: jouifocracy
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Posted by: soft2u47 on Dec 16, 2008 10:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Peace!!!!!!!!!!!!
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» RE: who alotted?
Posted by: using
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Posted by: soft2u47 on Dec 16, 2008 10:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who had the power to determine what belongs to who? It is fuuny to me that those who claim Iseal has the right to their land, who's land was it, before the u.s. and european nations place the Jews there. Let us look at America and how it became a nation.May be it is not too hard to see why Jews see themselves as worthy to slaughter innocent children and women. They are the ones who suffers the most. I agree with an earlier post, it begins with how we view ourselves as to how we will treat others.
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» RE: who alotted?
Posted by: using
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Posted by: leafsong1 on Dec 16, 2008 10:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, it excuses them. Maybe not in the first five years, or the first ten, but after four decades of genocidal oppression, I think the Palestinians can do just about anything they want to the Israelis with legitimacy.
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» RE: I disagree
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: I disagree
Posted by: using
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Posted by: janvdb on Dec 16, 2008 11:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And the fact that the US allows this is exactly at the root of our many problems in the Arab World.
What do we expect?
This must be stopped. The enclosure of Gaza will end up with the destruction of Isreal, because THOSE PEOPLE WILL NOT FORGET.
A tragedy. And we, as Americans, are participating in it.
We MUST STOP aiding and abetting these neo-Nazis who set Isreali policy toward Gaza.
I've been calling Gaza "Auschwitz on the Mediterranean" for years and it just gets truer all the time.
All those little children starving in there.
Jan VanDenBerg
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» Israel is a land-based aircraft carrier for US armed forces
Posted by: susie_smalls
» RE: Israel is a land-based aircraft carrier for US armed forces
Posted by: using
» RE: Hurray for Chris Hedges -- so RIGHT -- again
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Dec 16, 2008 11:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe they need to stop, just stop, and remember and practice humility, gratefulness, and appreciation for what they have! If Israel wants peace with it's neighbors - then maybe it should learn to behave peacefully and honestly with it's neighbors, starting with the Palestinian people that they continue to displace and kill!
And if the US truly wants to regain standing amongst the world nations, then maybe we as individuals in this country need to start insisting to our politicians that we want that fairness to begin now! That will be the only way to regain a foothold that has slipped and been shredded, especially over the last 8 years!
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Posted by: janvdb on Dec 16, 2008 11:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This from Truthdig.com
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Posted by: 876 on Dec 16, 2008 2:30 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where is the outrage? Where are all the ordinary Jews and Americans for that matter? Why aren’t they out in the streets with pitch forks marching against this? The silence is deafening? I will have to assume the vast majority of Jews and Americans are all in support of this given I have not seen any speaking out about these atrocities.
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» RE: 876
Posted by: using
» RE: 876
Posted by: jouifocracy
» RE: 876
Posted by: countingdaisies
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Posted by: AhavahbatSarah on Dec 16, 2008 3:18 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to see real apartheid, go to Saudi Arabia - oh, wait, you can't. As you can see right there on the US state department information page, it is illegal to live or travel in Saudi Arabia unless you are muslim. They accept no immigrants of any other religion. The penalty for converting to christianity or judaism is death. That same law exists AND IS ENFORCED in other muslim countries. These are the same policies that the Gazans want implement in Israel - the expulsion of all Jews and the imposition of Islam on everyone on pain of death. The radical muslim fundamentalists who live in Gaza and other Hamas and Fatah enclaves had every opportunity to be productive and happy citizens of Israel and chose not to be because they have no intention of every allowing freedom of religion, women's rights, children's rights, and other Western Freedoms that Israeli Arabs enjoy every day.
They impose apartheid on their own people - these are the same people who forced young girls back into a burning school because they ran out without hair-coverings, and dozens died because of it. These are the same people who recently buried a 13 year old betrothed girl up to her neck in the dirt and stoned her to death because she was raped - they called that adultery. IF you think for one minute that these people are morally superior to Israeli Jews, you must be insane. No intelligent educated person in possession of the facts and not muslim propaganda would ever come to that conclusion.
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» RE: Ignorance must be bliss...
Posted by: insitefull_1
» RE: Ignorance must be bliss...
Posted by: using
» Well it look like you'd know....
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Well it look like you'd know....
Posted by: AhavahbatSarah
» RE: Well it look like you'd know....
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Well it look like you'd know....
Posted by: AhavahbatSarah
» Wow, never come a cross a person so ruled by hate before
Posted by: moflard
» And since I brought the H word up....
Posted by: moflard
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Posted by: rambam42 on Dec 16, 2008 3:25 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder if I could stand out in front of the Knesset with a sign that declares that whoever the PM is, is a big fat jerk who smells? I hazard a guess that I could. Now, could I stand in front of Hamas' HQ with a sign saying their leader is a big fat jerk who smells? How long would I conceivably last? Could I do this in Damascus? Cairo? Riyadh?
Another thing that amazes me is that the merest mention of Israel generally provokes foaming at the mouth of anyone within earshot. Even if they don't have a direct stake in the conflict, they've got an opinion. And generally, the more liberal the person, the lower the opinion of Israel. They will vilify Israel even to the point of ignoring, white-washing, or excusing the atrocities committed by Islamic terrorists, the same terrorists who take all of the aid money and whatnot they get, and keep it from the general Palestinian population in order to advance their narrow, anti-Zionist agenda. Where is the outcry against Hamas? Or Hezbollah?
I can understand and even agree with those who deplore violence committed by certain Israelis upon innocent Palestinian civilians. But who will raise their voice in protest of the violence committed by terrorists upon innocent Israelis? Or are all Israelis guilty?
And if those who have posted above detest Israel for their "criminal" acts, then will they speak out so forcefully against the Sudanese, the North Koreans, or the Zimbabwean followers of Robert Mugabe? Where is the parity? For if there is none, then what do these people believe separates the Israelis to such an extent that they will scream bloody murder at every thing Israel does, but keep silent on the legions of depravities committed elsewhere?
There is only one separator in that context. And that is what could provoke pro-Zionists to call that kind of criticism anti-Semitism.
If you wish to avoid charges of anti-Semitism, then one would expect you to shout just as loudly for the dismantling of the North Korean state, or any other state that commits the atrocities you ascribe to Israel.
Where is the parity?
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» RE: ationality, Anyone?
Posted by: using
» RE: Aren't you the one who repeatedly jumps to conclusions?
Posted by: using
» Parity
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Parity
Posted by: rambam42
» RE: Parity
Posted by: moflard
» Just to clarify
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Parity
Posted by: rambam42
» RE: Parity
Posted by: moflard
» Honesty, Anyone?
Posted by: realtruther
» RE: Honesty, Anyone?
Posted by: rambam42
» RE: Honesty, Anyone?
Posted by: realtruther
» oh, and to answer your question...
Posted by: realtruther
Comments are closed-
Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Dec 16, 2008 3:38 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Long term truces?
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Long term truces?
Posted by: using
» Give Back?
Posted by: gellero1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: harlan8 on Dec 16, 2008 3:53 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was in Israel as a child before 1967, and remember the fences and soldiers on the border. At the time Palestinians were not under the Israelis, but were confrontational, destroyed Jewish religious sites and gravestones, and were intent on destroying Israel.
It is a shame that in the past 30 years Israel has become more hardline, but Palestinians have ALWAYS been hardline. There were moments were moderate Israelis were in control, but they never had conterparts on the otherside with goals that were short of destroying Israel.
In South Africa, the blacks were not calling for death of the whites, only equal representation. This is NOT the case with the Palestinians.
Israel is in a hard position. If they make one wrong move they can be destroyed. Its easier to blame Israel for its problems, than go about forming a viable country and better themselves. The time for Palestinians to complained ended in 1973, but they never got to do the hard work of making a country.
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» RE: PUHLEEZE!
Posted by: using
» Yaa Right.. Viable country with economic siege, 100s of check points, parliament speaker in Israeli
Posted by: aamer923
» RE: PUHLEEZE!
Posted by: moflard
» RE: PUHLEEZE!
Posted by: harlan8
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Garvagh on Dec 16, 2008 4:38 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Apartheid Wall should appear in photgraphs in US newspapers several times a week rather than several times a year.
The effort to strangle Hamas in Gaza is stupid and grossly illegal.
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» "Apartheid" Wall Pics.....by all means..........
Posted by: gellero1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: using on Dec 16, 2008 4:59 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It skips over the Palestinian missles, Hamas pledge to distroy Israel amongst other things. It does not support its inflamatory statements with a shread of fact...just accussations. And then come the commentators, no matter what the article they are screaming: Its the Jews fault! And then someone responds "We are not talking about Jews, we are talking about a few men or one man" and that fringe group screams: "just because we are anti Israel..doesn't mean "the Jews got 700B dollar of taxpayers money" is anti semetic.
This article creates sympathy for Palestinians as if they were innocent victims and Israel owes them medical treatment, drugs, food etc......if they can sneak guns from Egypt, and build missiles, they can sneak in food, medical supplies etc.
But, is that the goal of the ARab world? to support the poor, starving, impoverished, medically deprived Palistinian children? After all, the Palestinians could STOP accepting weapons UNLESS the ARab nations that are supporting their fight provide them with the supplies they need.
Why do your commentators believe that Palestinians can have a colossial 2 year old tantrum in the world arena demanding that the very people they have SWORN TO MURDER should fill their demands of employment, food, electricty and medical suppliies. They want those things, let them create, work, study for it? ask their supporters for it? or THEY CAN DECIDED TO NEGOTIATE FAIRLY.
This confused mishmash of kernerls of truth mixed with lies and sob stories for the benifit of creating sympathy rather than working for solutions of peace and prosperity of mankind is a disgrace.
So to the Alternet editors I say: This inflamatory article. that openly perverts truth, is an aborrition to working for brotherhood -- a thorn in the side of opening negotiations from which both sides will benifit.
Summary: If the Palestinians are willing to negotiate..then they have to drop their bottom line, "distroying Isreal" and building and deploying missles. Otherwise Israel is not morally obligated to offer drugs, food, electricty.
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» RE: To the editors of Alternet and their readership..........
Posted by: moflard
» RE: To the editors of Alternet and their readership..........
Posted by: using
» Israel has more games than an Arcade
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Israel has more games than an Arcade
Posted by: using
» RE: Israel has more games than an Arcade
Posted by: using
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AMB on Dec 16, 2008 5:09 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: US EU "terrorist"
Posted by: 876
» RE: Who is really at fault?
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Who is really at fault?
Posted by: using
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gellero1 on Dec 16, 2008 10:05 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They attack Israel. Israel retaliates.
If Mexico shot missiles at Texas, we would DESTROY them.
Israelis should be admired for their restraint.
Hamas' charter calls for the DESTRUCTION of Israel. Not peace, DESTRUCTION.
Why is this so hard for posters here to understand.??
What would you have the Israelis do? Accept attacks with bombs and missiles, like we 'accept' an open border with Mexico?
They're not stupid like us.
If the Gazans accept peace, they will prosper. And be free. If they continue on the current path, they die.......that's not hard to see at all.
If they had any sense they would massacre every Hamas operative and set their heads on spikes on the border. And that might be what it will take.
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» RE: What did they expect??
Posted by: weathered
» RE: What did they expect??
Posted by: using
» RE: What did they expect??
Posted by: weathered
» or if Mossad tried to bomb the Mexican parliament?
Posted by: realtruther
» Proof is Lacking...except for WEAK MINDS.
Posted by: gellero1
» a perfect example of why people should worry
Posted by: realtruther
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SouthernWolf on Dec 17, 2008 2:49 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Such a baying mob
Posted by: using
» RE: Such a baying mob
Posted by: Noor
» RE: Such a baying mob
Posted by: Paxmana1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Noor on Dec 17, 2008 7:15 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." ~ Maurice Samuels
"It's utterly hypocritical for Israelis to wonder aloud why Palestinians don't pursue a non-violent strategy. One obvious reason is that, whenever they have, Israel brutally represses it." ~ Norman G. Finkelstein
"Ours will be a brutal land of pens stretching between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean that will make South African apartheid pale." ~ Yigal Bronner
“Our race is the master race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as slaves.” ~ Menachem Begin, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize!!!
“One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." ~ Yaacov Perrin
"Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".~ Ehud Barak, Israeli PM
"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial." ~ Israeli PM Ariel Sharon
“The foundations of Zionism were formulated in ancient times, some three thousand years ago, and they are: 1. The Jews are God's chosen people.2. All other peoples are merely two-legged animals (goys).3. The Jews have both the right and the obligation to rule the world.” ~ Vladimir Stepin
"In working for Palestine, I would even ally myself with the devil" ~ Vladimir Jabotinsky
"Israel must put down the Palestinian uprising as quickly as possible ~ overwhelmingly, brutally and rapidly. The insurrection must be quelled immediately, and the first step should be to throw out television, a la South Africa. There will be international criticism of the step, but it will dissipate in short order. There are no awards for losing with moderation." ~ Henry Kissinger
“Palestinians are beasts walking on two legs." ~ Menachem Begin
"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." ~ Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces
Palestinians should be crushed like grasshoppers, heads smashed against the boulders and walls." ~ Israeli PM Yitzhak
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." ~ Israel Koenig
"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." ~ Theodore Herzl
"The main difference between Bosnia and Palestine is that ethnic cleansing in the former took place in the form of dramatic massacres and slaughters which caught the world's attention, whereas in Palestine what is taking place is a drop-by-drop tactic in which one or two houses are demolished daily, a few acres are taken here and there every day, a few people are forced to leave" ~ Edward Said
LAST BUT NOT LEAST:
“I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." ~ Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon
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» And your Proof???
Posted by: gellero1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: arielka on Dec 17, 2008 7:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Full of hatred liars: Factually, Israel cannot siege Gaza
Posted by: using
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gellero1 on Dec 17, 2008 9:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: e The Egyptian Border
Posted by: Paxmana1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sharonsylvie on Dec 18, 2008 11:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: fkroesen on Dec 19, 2008 2:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: eaanders on Dec 16, 2008 1:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com /2008/12/12/the_changing_face_of_israel/
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» WATCH OUT FOR THE JEWISH INTERNET DEFENSE FORCE..not kidding
Posted by: susie_smalls
» Oh, ScrewTHE JEWISH INTERNET DEFENSE FORCE..not kidding either!
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: talkville on Dec 16, 2008 1:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Modern Times, Modern War-lords. Un-free days. Ah! Western "Civilization"! Gotta always consider the Shadow. 'Cause the Shadow Knows, and the Shadow Wants. And Shadows don't really have any concern for what happens on the Light Side. So long as our modern Body is injected with the tribal Soul, savagery will remain Constant and only Styles and Manners will be Variable.
It's way past time to address the overcoming of Savagery and its continuous Improvement, Perfection and Refinement in the interests of Some. So far, all we can show evidence of is our Animality. It's time to get working on developing the Human. Everywhere.
Its about Freedom. The Freedom of a Human, not an Animal. On each and every side of the Issue. We're not there yet; we're still a long, long, long way away. Old Habits die hard.
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» The Shadow Knows.....
Posted by: johnorford
» RE: The Shadow Knows.....
Posted by: Timberbee
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lindajrjt on Dec 16, 2008 2:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh and while we are at it and to keep things very fair we should also charge other parties with war crimes such as the current US President and the ones that support torture and unlawful detainment of prisoners just to name an example. Hey don't forget China and it's human rights abuses too...
I generally like to be a decent human being towards others; but it gets very hard when I keep hearing these kinds of stories over and over again with no lesson learned from the past. Why bother studying history if we are going to repeat the same mistakes and not learn from them?
We all need to learn how to live in peace and prosperity no matter what our beliefs are because right now this Earth is the only home we have.
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» RE: The Jews invented genocide
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: The Jews invented genocide
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: The Jews invented genocide
Posted by: nap
» RE: War Crimes - No, they are the "Chosen ones" -----
Posted by: symcokid
» WHAT GOES AROUND,COMES AROUND!
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wisegalah on Dec 16, 2008 2:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once you accept a belief system as the basis of life and as a structure which gives meaning to your life or from which you derive a sense of yourself then these things will be done.
Many believers will identify themselves firstly as jews, muslims, christians, athiests, socialists, etc. It follows that if anybody does not identify themselves in that way, they are not as good, moral, intelligent, human, chosen, worthy, valuable, etc as I and my fellow believers are.
Further more their unwillingness to accept my beliefs is a challenge to my view of life. The fact that they may be more intelligent, moral, etc despite not assenting to my beliefs is an attack upon my position, and an attack upon my identity and my sense of myself and my self worth.
To defend my fragile sense of myself I am entitled to destroy those who are not of my persuasion.
What we all need to do is to examine the basis of belief itself. What function does it play in the lives of human beings. No-one is born a believer. We are all forced to conform and to accept the beliefs of our carers.
Subject any belief system and what do you find. All are second hand. All are entirely arbitrary. All will pass away in time, as have thousands of other beliefs of the past.
Basically all political, nationalistic and religious beliefs are simply rubbish and not worth the life of a single person.
So much suffering for absolute crap.
How mad is humanity?
,
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» What Belief System?? Nothing left of it Other than Racism ..
Posted by: aamer923
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Posted by: eidel on Dec 16, 2008 4:50 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I understand the article and the responses, even though Gaza, on a daily basis attacks Israel, Israel is at fault for responding. Yet Israel, in spite of these attacks sends food, money, and medical supplies. Is the border closed, of course it is, why allow terrorist into your country? Think about it, that is suicide. My question is why not confront Egypt where Gazans are shot on sight, to open it's borders to fellow Muslims and send in something besides arms?
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» RE: eneri
Posted by: Erin
» And in addition to what Erin has said.....
Posted by: David/Daoud
» RE: And in addition to what Erin has said.....
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: eneri
Posted by: biwee
» RE: eneri
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: eneri
Posted by: shoshiw
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: Cesco8
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: moflard
» Achh, I forgot...
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: wane
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Help me out here, shoshiw ...
Posted by: shoshiw
» RE: eneri
Posted by: jouifocracy
» RE: eneri
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» An antisemetic charge is a trick to change the topic/shift the burden
Posted by: susie_smalls
» RE: An antisemetic charge is a trick to change the topic/shift the burden
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: An antisemetic charge is a trick to change the topic/shift the burden
Posted by: susie_smalls
» RE: An antisemetic charge is a trick to change the topic/shift the burden
Posted by: insitefull_1
» RE: An antisemetic charge is a trick to change the topic/shift the burden
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: An antisemetic charge is a trick to change the topic/shift the burden
Posted by: moflard
» Israel demands another Academy Award
Posted by: weathered
» RE: eneri
Posted by: wane
» RE: eneri
Posted by: pkbw
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Erin on Dec 16, 2008 4:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: weathered on Dec 16, 2008 5:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It never had to get like this? Israel could have easily dovetailed its standing onto the world's stage as an honorable, esteemable player. Instead they took the dark, sneaky and very selfish road.
For all that Israel has they remain spiritually bankrupt. Humility eludes them, denial becomes them and trouble follows them.
A country that would much rather be right, than happy. Ultimately they're neither and it shows. While this manipulating pathology of entitlement is truly endemic to Israel, its infected America now too and what's tragic is we have yet to see an American Jew of any respect and standing come out and confront the remarkable arrogance and diabolic deceit that is political Israel.
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» what is tragic is that American Jews who do speak out are ignored
Posted by: realtruther
» RE: Yes you’re right all 3 of them are ignored
Posted by: 876
» RE: Yes you’re right all 3 of them are ignored.. oh come on!
Posted by: DaBear
» yep, and they're ignored by the mainstream, which toes the Likud line
Posted by: realtruther
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johnorford on Dec 16, 2008 5:32 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: who are they?
Posted by: almendoza2
» RE: who are they? they are humans!
Posted by: muktuk
» orthodox Judaism and Zionism are bad for Jewish culture
Posted by: realtruther
» RE: orthodox Judaism and Zionism are bad for Jewish culture
Posted by: DaBear
» mind you I do not oppose all forms of zionism
Posted by: realtruther
» RE: orthodox Judaism and Zionism are bad for Jewish culture
Posted by: insitefull_1
» Winning the 1967 war against the entire middle east changed everything
Posted by: susie_smalls
» RE: Winning the 1967 war against the entire middle east changed everything
Posted by: insitefull_1
» RE: Winning the 1967 war against the entire middle east changed everything
Posted by: weathered
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lauren on Dec 16, 2008 7:54 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My first reaction was to agree with you, but then I thought maybe we are too close to it, there have been some pretty bad other guys. How is Bush the worst?
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» RE: Sorry, Lauren
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Sorry, Lauren
Posted by: jouifocracy
» Mao
Posted by: nap
Comments are closed-
Posted by: symcokid on Dec 16, 2008 8:40 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: pkbw on Dec 19, 2008 4:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Life of Illusion on Dec 16, 2008 6:50 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its a shame when your neighbor starts shooting back, and he's better armed and a better shot. Your friend goes to another house. Everyone talks about what an ass your neighbor is, as your friend starts shooting again. It helps that your friend is the mayor and everyone in the neighborhood voted for him.
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» RE: Nice analogy
Posted by: Crazy H
» Too bad the original shooters were austrian jews
Posted by: susie_smalls
Comments are closed-
Posted by: muktuk on Dec 16, 2008 7:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's happening in Gaza and the west bank is very reminiscent of the American holocaust when the United States created reservations for the native Americans who were driven from their ancestral lands. The last "battle" of the American Indian Wars was the massacre at Wounded Knee. genocide by any other name.
Overpopulation and crowding stress are the enemies of Israel and of the occupied Palestinian territories- common enemies that both "sides" have failed to recognise.
The Israeli "settlers" have the highest birth rates in Israel and coupled with Judaic fundamentalism, hostilities towards Palestinians will only increase.
Even good humans do bad things when stressed out.
By the way, great article Chris Hedges!
It is truly shameful that some will charge you with anti-Semitism- they conveniently forget that morality is the first causalty of any conflict. And they have lost theirs.
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» 'anti-semitism' is a cloak of deflection,
Posted by: weathered
» RE: 'anti-semitism' is a cloak of deflection,
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Pakistan
Posted by: 876
» RE: Pakistan
Posted by: Crazy H
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sonofloud on Dec 16, 2008 7:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At the very least they should have economic sanctions placed on them.
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» RE: Israel consistently violates UN laws/terms and yet - That's OK, they're the "Chosen few".
Posted by: symcokid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jstepp590 on Dec 16, 2008 9:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That being said, however, just because the Jewish people were treated badly by the Nazis does not give them the right to act like them. Zionism is a failed, aparthied ideology and needs to end, now.
Israel needs to follow international law or lose our support. Americans are getting really tired of this crap. It's like having a friend that gets you into fights with people you don't even know every time you go out.
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» RE: The baffling absurdity
Posted by: 876
» What?
Posted by: moflard
» What?
Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: What?
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» um, no he didn't.
Posted by: realtruther
» NO..We gave 300,000 US LIVES defeating the nazis/freeing the jews
Posted by: susie_smalls
» RE: NO..We gave 300,000 US LIVES defeating the nazis/freeing the jews
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: NO..We gave 300,000 US LIVES defeating the nazis/freeing the jews
Posted by: moflard
» RE: NO..We gave 300,000 US LIVES defeating the nazis/freeing the jews
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: nazis
Posted by: lindajrjt
» "a friend that gets you into fights with people you don't even know every time you go out"
Posted by: realtruther
Comments are closed-
Posted by: moflard on Dec 16, 2008 9:32 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Concept of Membership : Ethnic
Self Identity : Jewish
Normative identity : Collectivist
Spatial Identification : Land of Israel (Biblical)
Temporal Identification : Ancient times and far future
Cultural Identification : Particularist (Chosen People)
Political Culture : Fundamentalist-Messianic
Political Manifestation : Gush Emunim (illegal settlements)
Now it occurred to me I could draw up another, very similar list
Concept of Membership : Ethnic
Self Identity : Aryan
Normative Identity : Collectivist
Spatial Identification : Germany (all land occupied by Germanic peoples in the past)
Temporal Identification : Ancient times to far future
Cultural Identification : Particularist (Master Race)
Political Culture : Fundamentalist-Messianic
Political Manifestatoin : Nazi Party (the Sudetenland etc.)
And so we become what we hate...
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» RE: If not siblings - first cousins
Posted by: babs
» RE: If not siblings - first cousins
Posted by: moflard
» RE: If not siblings - first cousins
Posted by: hophmi
» Close, but no cigar ;-)
Posted by: moflard
Comments are closed-
Posted by: harlan8 on Dec 16, 2008 9:39 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences
[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad:
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» RE: The Palestinian Charter
Posted by: babs
» RE: The Palestinian Charter
Posted by: insitefull_1
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Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 16, 2008 10:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: And why are dictators in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc ... "supporting" them?
Posted by: jouifocracy
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Posted by: soft2u47 on Dec 16, 2008 10:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Peace!!!!!!!!!!!!
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» RE: who alotted?
Posted by: using
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Posted by: soft2u47 on Dec 16, 2008 10:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who had the power to determine what belongs to who? It is fuuny to me that those who claim Iseal has the right to their land, who's land was it, before the u.s. and european nations place the Jews there. Let us look at America and how it became a nation.May be it is not too hard to see why Jews see themselves as worthy to slaughter innocent children and women. They are the ones who suffers the most. I agree with an earlier post, it begins with how we view ourselves as to how we will treat others.
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» RE: who alotted?
Posted by: using
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Posted by: leafsong1 on Dec 16, 2008 10:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, it excuses them. Maybe not in the first five years, or the first ten, but after four decades of genocidal oppression, I think the Palestinians can do just about anything they want to the Israelis with legitimacy.
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» RE: I disagree
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: I disagree
Posted by: using
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Posted by: janvdb on Dec 16, 2008 11:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And the fact that the US allows this is exactly at the root of our many problems in the Arab World.
What do we expect?
This must be stopped. The enclosure of Gaza will end up with the destruction of Isreal, because THOSE PEOPLE WILL NOT FORGET.
A tragedy. And we, as Americans, are participating in it.
We MUST STOP aiding and abetting these neo-Nazis who set Isreali policy toward Gaza.
I've been calling Gaza "Auschwitz on the Mediterranean" for years and it just gets truer all the time.
All those little children starving in there.
Jan VanDenBerg
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» Israel is a land-based aircraft carrier for US armed forces
Posted by: susie_smalls
» RE: Israel is a land-based aircraft carrier for US armed forces
Posted by: using
» RE: Hurray for Chris Hedges -- so RIGHT -- again
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Dec 16, 2008 11:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe they need to stop, just stop, and remember and practice humility, gratefulness, and appreciation for what they have! If Israel wants peace with it's neighbors - then maybe it should learn to behave peacefully and honestly with it's neighbors, starting with the Palestinian people that they continue to displace and kill!
And if the US truly wants to regain standing amongst the world nations, then maybe we as individuals in this country need to start insisting to our politicians that we want that fairness to begin now! That will be the only way to regain a foothold that has slipped and been shredded, especially over the last 8 years!
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Posted by: janvdb on Dec 16, 2008 11:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This from Truthdig.com
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Posted by: 876 on Dec 16, 2008 2:30 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where is the outrage? Where are all the ordinary Jews and Americans for that matter? Why aren’t they out in the streets with pitch forks marching against this? The silence is deafening? I will have to assume the vast majority of Jews and Americans are all in support of this given I have not seen any speaking out about these atrocities.
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» RE: 876
Posted by: using
» RE: 876
Posted by: jouifocracy
» RE: 876
Posted by: countingdaisies
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Posted by: AhavahbatSarah on Dec 16, 2008 3:18 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to see real apartheid, go to Saudi Arabia - oh, wait, you can't. As you can see right there on the US state department information page, it is illegal to live or travel in Saudi Arabia unless you are muslim. They accept no immigrants of any other religion. The penalty for converting to christianity or judaism is death. That same law exists AND IS ENFORCED in other muslim countries. These are the same policies that the Gazans want implement in Israel - the expulsion of all Jews and the imposition of Islam on everyone on pain of death. The radical muslim fundamentalists who live in Gaza and other Hamas and Fatah enclaves had every opportunity to be productive and happy citizens of Israel and chose not to be because they have no intention of every allowing freedom of religion, women's rights, children's rights, and other Western Freedoms that Israeli Arabs enjoy every day.
They impose apartheid on their own people - these are the same people who forced young girls back into a burning school because they ran out without hair-coverings, and dozens died because of it. These are the same people who recently buried a 13 year old betrothed girl up to her neck in the dirt and stoned her to death because she was raped - they called that adultery. IF you think for one minute that these people are morally superior to Israeli Jews, you must be insane. No intelligent educated person in possession of the facts and not muslim propaganda would ever come to that conclusion.
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» RE: Ignorance must be bliss...
Posted by: insitefull_1
» RE: Ignorance must be bliss...
Posted by: using
» Well it look like you'd know....
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Well it look like you'd know....
Posted by: AhavahbatSarah
» RE: Well it look like you'd know....
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Well it look like you'd know....
Posted by: AhavahbatSarah
» Wow, never come a cross a person so ruled by hate before
Posted by: moflard
» And since I brought the H word up....
Posted by: moflard
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rambam42 on Dec 16, 2008 3:25 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder if I could stand out in front of the Knesset with a sign that declares that whoever the PM is, is a big fat jerk who smells? I hazard a guess that I could. Now, could I stand in front of Hamas' HQ with a sign saying their leader is a big fat jerk who smells? How long would I conceivably last? Could I do this in Damascus? Cairo? Riyadh?
Another thing that amazes me is that the merest mention of Israel generally provokes foaming at the mouth of anyone within earshot. Even if they don't have a direct stake in the conflict, they've got an opinion. And generally, the more liberal the person, the lower the opinion of Israel. They will vilify Israel even to the point of ignoring, white-washing, or excusing the atrocities committed by Islamic terrorists, the same terrorists who take all of the aid money and whatnot they get, and keep it from the general Palestinian population in order to advance their narrow, anti-Zionist agenda. Where is the outcry against Hamas? Or Hezbollah?
I can understand and even agree with those who deplore violence committed by certain Israelis upon innocent Palestinian civilians. But who will raise their voice in protest of the violence committed by terrorists upon innocent Israelis? Or are all Israelis guilty?
And if those who have posted above detest Israel for their "criminal" acts, then will they speak out so forcefully against the Sudanese, the North Koreans, or the Zimbabwean followers of Robert Mugabe? Where is the parity? For if there is none, then what do these people believe separates the Israelis to such an extent that they will scream bloody murder at every thing Israel does, but keep silent on the legions of depravities committed elsewhere?
There is only one separator in that context. And that is what could provoke pro-Zionists to call that kind of criticism anti-Semitism.
If you wish to avoid charges of anti-Semitism, then one would expect you to shout just as loudly for the dismantling of the North Korean state, or any other state that commits the atrocities you ascribe to Israel.
Where is the parity?
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» RE: ationality, Anyone?
Posted by: using
» RE: Aren't you the one who repeatedly jumps to conclusions?
Posted by: using
» Parity
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Parity
Posted by: rambam42
» RE: Parity
Posted by: moflard
» Just to clarify
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Parity
Posted by: rambam42
» RE: Parity
Posted by: moflard
» Honesty, Anyone?
Posted by: realtruther
» RE: Honesty, Anyone?
Posted by: rambam42
» RE: Honesty, Anyone?
Posted by: realtruther
» oh, and to answer your question...
Posted by: realtruther
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Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Dec 16, 2008 3:38 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Long term truces?
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Long term truces?
Posted by: using
» Give Back?
Posted by: gellero1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: harlan8 on Dec 16, 2008 3:53 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was in Israel as a child before 1967, and remember the fences and soldiers on the border. At the time Palestinians were not under the Israelis, but were confrontational, destroyed Jewish religious sites and gravestones, and were intent on destroying Israel.
It is a shame that in the past 30 years Israel has become more hardline, but Palestinians have ALWAYS been hardline. There were moments were moderate Israelis were in control, but they never had conterparts on the otherside with goals that were short of destroying Israel.
In South Africa, the blacks were not calling for death of the whites, only equal representation. This is NOT the case with the Palestinians.
Israel is in a hard position. If they make one wrong move they can be destroyed. Its easier to blame Israel for its problems, than go about forming a viable country and better themselves. The time for Palestinians to complained ended in 1973, but they never got to do the hard work of making a country.
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» RE: PUHLEEZE!
Posted by: using
» Yaa Right.. Viable country with economic siege, 100s of check points, parliament speaker in Israeli
Posted by: aamer923
» RE: PUHLEEZE!
Posted by: moflard
» RE: PUHLEEZE!
Posted by: harlan8
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Garvagh on Dec 16, 2008 4:38 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Apartheid Wall should appear in photgraphs in US newspapers several times a week rather than several times a year.
The effort to strangle Hamas in Gaza is stupid and grossly illegal.
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» "Apartheid" Wall Pics.....by all means..........
Posted by: gellero1
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Posted by: using on Dec 16, 2008 4:59 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It skips over the Palestinian missles, Hamas pledge to distroy Israel amongst other things. It does not support its inflamatory statements with a shread of fact...just accussations. And then come the commentators, no matter what the article they are screaming: Its the Jews fault! And then someone responds "We are not talking about Jews, we are talking about a few men or one man" and that fringe group screams: "just because we are anti Israel..doesn't mean "the Jews got 700B dollar of taxpayers money" is anti semetic.
This article creates sympathy for Palestinians as if they were innocent victims and Israel owes them medical treatment, drugs, food etc......if they can sneak guns from Egypt, and build missiles, they can sneak in food, medical supplies etc.
But, is that the goal of the ARab world? to support the poor, starving, impoverished, medically deprived Palistinian children? After all, the Palestinians could STOP accepting weapons UNLESS the ARab nations that are supporting their fight provide them with the supplies they need.
Why do your commentators believe that Palestinians can have a colossial 2 year old tantrum in the world arena demanding that the very people they have SWORN TO MURDER should fill their demands of employment, food, electricty and medical suppliies. They want those things, let them create, work, study for it? ask their supporters for it? or THEY CAN DECIDED TO NEGOTIATE FAIRLY.
This confused mishmash of kernerls of truth mixed with lies and sob stories for the benifit of creating sympathy rather than working for solutions of peace and prosperity of mankind is a disgrace.
So to the Alternet editors I say: This inflamatory article. that openly perverts truth, is an aborrition to working for brotherhood -- a thorn in the side of opening negotiations from which both sides will benifit.
Summary: If the Palestinians are willing to negotiate..then they have to drop their bottom line, "distroying Isreal" and building and deploying missles. Otherwise Israel is not morally obligated to offer drugs, food, electricty.
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» RE: To the editors of Alternet and their readership..........
Posted by: moflard
» RE: To the editors of Alternet and their readership..........
Posted by: using
» Israel has more games than an Arcade
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Israel has more games than an Arcade
Posted by: using
» RE: Israel has more games than an Arcade
Posted by: using
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AMB on Dec 16, 2008 5:09 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: US EU "terrorist"
Posted by: 876
» RE: Who is really at fault?
Posted by: moflard
» RE: Who is really at fault?
Posted by: using
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gellero1 on Dec 16, 2008 10:05 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They attack Israel. Israel retaliates.
If Mexico shot missiles at Texas, we would DESTROY them.
Israelis should be admired for their restraint.
Hamas' charter calls for the DESTRUCTION of Israel. Not peace, DESTRUCTION.
Why is this so hard for posters here to understand.??
What would you have the Israelis do? Accept attacks with bombs and missiles, like we 'accept' an open border with Mexico?
They're not stupid like us.
If the Gazans accept peace, they will prosper. And be free. If they continue on the current path, they die.......that's not hard to see at all.
If they had any sense they would massacre every Hamas operative and set their heads on spikes on the border. And that might be what it will take.
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» RE: What did they expect??
Posted by: weathered
» RE: What did they expect??
Posted by: using
» RE: What did they expect??
Posted by: weathered
» or if Mossad tried to bomb the Mexican parliament?
Posted by: realtruther
» Proof is Lacking...except for WEAK MINDS.
Posted by: gellero1
» a perfect example of why people should worry
Posted by: realtruther
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SouthernWolf on Dec 17, 2008 2:49 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Such a baying mob
Posted by: using
» RE: Such a baying mob
Posted by: Noor
» RE: Such a baying mob
Posted by: Paxmana1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Noor on Dec 17, 2008 7:15 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." ~ Maurice Samuels
"It's utterly hypocritical for Israelis to wonder aloud why Palestinians don't pursue a non-violent strategy. One obvious reason is that, whenever they have, Israel brutally represses it." ~ Norman G. Finkelstein
"Ours will be a brutal land of pens stretching between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean that will make South African apartheid pale." ~ Yigal Bronner
“Our race is the master race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as slaves.” ~ Menachem Begin, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize!!!
“One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." ~ Yaacov Perrin
"Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".~ Ehud Barak, Israeli PM
"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial." ~ Israeli PM Ariel Sharon
“The foundations of Zionism were formulated in ancient times, some three thousand years ago, and they are: 1. The Jews are God's chosen people.2. All other peoples are merely two-legged animals (goys).3. The Jews have both the right and the obligation to rule the world.” ~ Vladimir Stepin
"In working for Palestine, I would even ally myself with the devil" ~ Vladimir Jabotinsky
"Israel must put down the Palestinian uprising as quickly as possible ~ overwhelmingly, brutally and rapidly. The insurrection must be quelled immediately, and the first step should be to throw out television, a la South Africa. There will be international criticism of the step, but it will dissipate in short order. There are no awards for losing with moderation." ~ Henry Kissinger
“Palestinians are beasts walking on two legs." ~ Menachem Begin
"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." ~ Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces
Palestinians should be crushed like grasshoppers, heads smashed against the boulders and walls." ~ Israeli PM Yitzhak
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." ~ Israel Koenig
"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." ~ Theodore Herzl
"The main difference between Bosnia and Palestine is that ethnic cleansing in the former took place in the form of dramatic massacres and slaughters which caught the world's attention, whereas in Palestine what is taking place is a drop-by-drop tactic in which one or two houses are demolished daily, a few acres are taken here and there every day, a few people are forced to leave" ~ Edward Said
LAST BUT NOT LEAST:
“I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." ~ Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon
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» And your Proof???
Posted by: gellero1
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Posted by: arielka on Dec 17, 2008 7:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Full of hatred liars: Factually, Israel cannot siege Gaza
Posted by: using
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Posted by: gellero1 on Dec 17, 2008 9:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: e The Egyptian Border
Posted by: Paxmana1
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Posted by: sharonsylvie on Dec 18, 2008 11:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: fkroesen on Dec 19, 2008 2:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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