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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

Let's Stop the Greatest Theft in the History of Humankind

By Otto Spengler, Asia Times. Posted September 23, 2008.


We can't let them get away with it.
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Why should American taxpayers give US Treasury Secretary "Hank" Paulson a blank check to bail out the shareholders of busted banks? Why should the Treasury turn itself into a toxic waste dump for their bad loans? Why not let other banks join the unlamented Brothers Lehman in bankruptcy court, and start a new bank with taxpayers' money? Or have the Treasury pay interest on delinquent mortgages, and make them whole? Even better, why not let the Chinese, or the Saudis or other foreign investors take control of failed American banks? They've got the money, and they gladly would pay a premium for an inside seat at the American table.

None of the above will occur. America will give between US$700-$800 billion to the Treasury to buy any bank assets it wants, on any terms, with no possible legal recourse. It is an invitation to abuse of power unparalleled in American history, in which ill-paid civil servants will set prices on the portfolios of the banking system with no oversight and no threat of legal penalty.

Why are the voices raised in protest so shrill and few? Why will Americans fall on their fountain-pens for their bankers? If America is to adopt socialism, why not have socialism for the poor, rather than for the rich? Why should American households that earn $50,000 a year subsidize Goldman Sachs partners who earn $5 million a year?

Believe it or not, there is a rational explanation, and quite in keeping with America's national motto, E pluribus hokum. Part of the problem is that Wall Street, like the ethnic godfather in the old joke, has made America an offer it can't understand. The collapsing the mortgage-backed securities market embodies a degree of complexity that mystifies the average policy wonk. But that is a lesser, superficial side of the story. Paulson's dreadful scheme will become law, because Americans love their bankers. The bankers enable their collective gambling habit. Think of America as a town with one casino, in which the only economic activity is gambling. Most people lose, but the casino keeps lending them more money to play. Eventually, of course, the casino must go bankrupt. At this point, the townspeople people vote to tax themselves in order to bail out the casino. Collectively, the gamblers cannot help but lose; individually they nonetheless hope to win their way out of the hole.


Americans are so deep in the hole that they might as well keep putting borrowed quarters into the one-armed bandit. They have hardly saved anything for the past 10 years. Instead, they counted on capital gains to replace the retirement savings they never put aside, first in tech stocks, then in houses. That hasn't worked out. The S&P 500 Index of American equities today is worth what it was in 1997, after adjusting for inflation (and a pensioner who sells stock purchased in 1997 will pay a 20% capital gains tax on an illusory inflationary gain of 40%). Home prices doubled between 1997 and 2007 before falling by more than 20%, with no floor in sight.

As it is, many of the baby boomers now on the verge of retirement will spend their declining years working at Wal-Mart or McDonalds rather than cruising the Caribbean. Some of them still have time to tighten their belts and save 10% of their income (by consuming 10% less), plus a good deal more to compensate for the missing savings of the 1990s.

Altogether, they'd rather gamble, and if that requires a bailout of the house, they gladly will chip in to pay for it. After all, today's baby boomers won't pay for the bailout. The next generation of taxpayers will pay for Paulson's $700-$800 billion. If that enables the present generation to keep borrowing rather than saving, it is no skin off their back. If home prices continue to collapse, the baby boomers will die in debt anyway, working at low-paying jobs until the day before their funerals.

The homeowners of America hope against hope that somehow, sometime, the price of their one only asset will bounce back. The character of Mortimer Duke in the 1983 film Trading Places comes to mind. After losing his fortune in the frozen orange juice futures market, Duke screams, "I want trading reopened right now. Get those brokers back in here! Turn those machines back on! Turn those machines back on!" If a reverse takeover of the US government by Goldman Sachs is what it takes to turn the machines back on, the American public will support it. Sadly, there is no reason to expect the bailout of bank shareholders to have any effect at all on American home prices, which will continue to sink into the sand.

Contrary to what the Bush administration says, it is not the case that banks' troubled mortgage assets cannot be sold in the private market. Those are the so-called "Level III" assets that banks say they cannot value. But that is only a dodge that the banks use to postpone taking losses. There is a ready bid for these assets from hedge funds, in multi-hundred-billion-dollar size. The trouble is that the market bid is 25% to 30% below the prices that banks carry these assets on their books. Traders at Wall Street boutiques who specialize in distressed securities say that US regional banks regularly make discreet offers to sell private mortgage-backed securities (not guaranteed by a federal agency) at prices, for example, of 75 to 80 cents on the dollar. Hedge funds bid, for example, 55 to 60 cents in return.

On rare occasions, the bank seller and the hedge fund buyer will meet in the middle, although very few transactions occur. Although many banks are desperate to sell, they cannot accept the offered price without taking losses over the threshold of mortality, for write-downs of this magnitude would destroy their shareholders' capital. Investment banks typically hold about $30 of securities for every $1 of capital, so a 3% write-down would leave them insolvent. Lehman Brothers classified 14% of its assets as Level III at the end of the first quarter; Goldman Sachs was at 13%. Why is Lehman bankrupt, and Goldman Sachs still in business? If Secretary Paulson, the former head of Goldman Sachs, had not proposed a general bailout last week, we might already have had the answer to that question.

For the Paulson bailout to be helpful to the banks, it must buy their securities at much higher prices than the private market is willing to pay. Otherwise it makes no sense at all, for the banks could sell at any moment to the hedge funds. But that is a subsidy to private banks, administered at the whim of the Treasury Secretary, without oversight and without the possibility of legal recourse.

Some Democrats in Congress are asking for some form of oversight, but it is hard to imagine how they might use it, for a Treasury with $800 billion to spend would constitute the whole market bid for low-quality mortgage assets, and would set whatever prices it wished. Professionals with years of experience set prices on these securities with great uncertainty. How would an overseer determine if it had set the correct price? And if the Treasury decided to bail out one bank (say, Goldman Sachs) rather than another, how would the overseer judge whether that decision was judicious, politically motivated, venal, or arbitrary?

Opposition to the Treasury plan is disturbingly thing. Bloomberg News on June 21 quoted the Democratic chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, Christopher Dodd, saying, "I know of nobody who is arguing over the amount of money or even about that the secretary ought to have the authority to purchase these toxic instruments, these bad debts."

Why the taxpayers of America would allow their pockets to be picked in this fashion requires a different sort of explanation than one finds in economics textbooks. My analogy of gamblers taxing themselves to bail out the casino is inspired, in part, by a remarkable new book by the Canadian economists Reuven and Gabrielle Brenner (with Aaron Brown), A World of Chance.

In effect, the Brenners re-interpret economic theory in terms of gambling, showing how profoundly gambling figures into human behavior, especially in such matters as so-called life-cycle investing. The 50-ish householder who has not made enough to retire may take outsized chances, considering that as matters stand, he will work until he drops dead in any case. The Brenners write:

If people reach the age of fifty or fifty-five and have not "made it," what are their financial options to still live the good life? Except for allocating a few bucks to buy lottery tickets, it is hard to think of any other option. If people find themselves down on their luck and see no immediate opportunities to get rich, what can they do to sustain their hopes and dreams? Allocating a fraction of their portfolios with a chance to win a large prize is among the options. And when people are leapfrogged - that is, when some "Joneses" who were "below" them jump ahead - how can they catch up?

They will tend to challenge their luck for a while, taking risks that they might have contemplated before in business, financial markets, and other areas but did not follow up with action.
A World of Chance undermines our usual view of "economic man" and substitutes the angst-ridden, uncertain denizen of a world that offers no certainties and requires risk-taking as a matter of survival. I hope to offer a proper review of the work in the near future. As my marker, though, permit me to leave the thought that for providing a theoretical foundation for the counter-intuitive behavior of American taxpayers, the Brenners deserve the Nobel Prize in economics. Alas for the gamblers of America: they will tax themselves to keep the casino in operation, but it will not profit them. Where, oh where, is America's Vladimir Putin, who will drive out the oligarchs who have stolen the country's treasure and debased its currency?

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Coming soon: the second Great Depression -- a perfect storm of greed, stupidity and arrogance
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 23, 2008 12:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Greed by the Power Elite (Washington politicians, Wall Street brokers and main street bankers)

Stupidity on everyone's part (creditors and lenders).

Arrogance by Republicans who will say and do anything to make Americans give up their freedom.

Next on the horizon: the second American Revolution (cars burning and blood on the streets).

John McCain--OLD ideas, OLD solutions

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not just grand larceny
Posted by: samosamo on Sep 23, 2008 12:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With 3 or 3 1/2 months until a hopeful transfer of power, there is plenty of time to totally deplete the treasury of all money and as I have said before: "It is all about grand larceny, robbery, theft." That is not hard to understand at all when for the last several decades of Milton Friedman's 'unfettered capitalism' and its totally inequitable results of massive money transfers of a nation's public properties to the few elite, and a 25 to 60% rate of poverty and unemployment, that this pseudo economic system is a huge criminal money grab. The amount is really not understandable because who really has the time and resources to hash this all out to view?
What also, appears unfair and most likely will be included in any such passage of this fleecing of our treasury is that nothing will be done to actually go after the people that illegally manipulated this money into their own accounts. Nothing in oversight or accountability will provide for this and these people will get away with our money. No prosecution, no jail time, no recompense for their ill gotten gains at our expense. Businesses that by all rights that should go under and cease to exist will be left to steal another day.
And being close to the end of the current reign of thieves, they will steal as much if not all of what is left just to create an impossible situation for the incoming president. And that leaves open all kinds of doors that could really make the people 'bugged eyed' when no matter who takes the reigns of power the possible hidden agendas such as the North American Union(canada, u.s., mexico) will appear along with a new currency.
No matter what, $700B is lost, we will borrow(hopefully not) another $700B from the federal reserve and have to still pay the interest on that which will most likely come to another $700B making a supposed total of $2.1 trillion that will probably collapse this country to a point that the people will just cave into any financial elite's governmental remake of our republic.
If only there were real people with the balls to stop this and not let this carry through AND get rid of the federal reserve.

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It's over!
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Sep 23, 2008 1:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The craven, despotic arrogance of Bush is so utterly contemptuous that it can only evoke "shock and awe." But a public that will embrace a dipshit Alaskan hood ornament as a favored "next in line" can surely be expected to buy Bush's lunacy. That a maniac with the lowest acceptance rating of any departing President would have the cojones to attempt this grand larceny is stupefying but Pelosi has already rolled over and the media jackals are in line talking about inevitable acceptance. It's over folks and all of the bloggers in the world can't stop it but, as I have argued its necessity for months, it will be over when an outraged public takes to the streets and exacts revenge. Until that happens, we can expect much more from this unconscionable asshole and his henchmen.

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» RE: It's over! Posted by: thinks4herself2008
» RE: It's over! Posted by: bottom-line
» RE: It's over! Posted by: Zeugitai
» RE: It's over! Posted by: drlongo
Time for Very Close Attention, Left - Reformist or not!
Posted by: talkville on Sep 23, 2008 1:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fox "news", earlier last night, had a quite interesting "interview" with a Representative from an outfit by the name of The Carlyle Group (might be worth checking it out, if it's available on their site). This outfit has interesting personages involved: The Bush family for instance; or James Baker perhaps, and a few others... . It's not just about Credit; it's also very much about another economistic term: Equity. And it's about the piece-meal purchase of assets and equity FROM the Public TO the Private coffers. In a word and at bottom: it's about Theft, Fraud and other interesting human motivations of our oh, so civilized age! It's about privatizing every "Public" and "National" asset possible in the interest of Private Profit-generation; with the whole-sale de-facto and de-jure subservience and aid of the Federal Government (which used to be considered a reflection of the whole society, e.g.: the People).

Anyone who must survive by sale of his- or her- labor-power on the so-called "Free-Market" and has nothing else to fall back on ought to take some real time to consider, precisely and deeply, what this will mean to them and their family and co-workers. This is a consciously and carefully thought-out, in advance, move in-, for- and by- capitalists, to whom your labor-power (your Self) is but just another 'asset' and commodity in their bulging Portfolio, to be acquired or discarded at their Whim. De-facto and de-jure necessary Servitude in all its various degrees is in the air. It wouldn't be too wise to automatically include oneself when these people utter terms like: "We", "Bi-Partisan", "Freedom", "Better", etc. They aren't asking; they're telling. The axis is no longer 'left-right'; it is Top-Down.

Via Chomsky, I understand that a certain Mr Adam Smith, somewhere in his writings and moral philosophies, mentioned the existing of a "vile maxim" those (like him) who Named themselves "Master" held: "All for us; nothing for them". Although I've not the time nor the resources to research this utterance by Mr Smith, I see no reason to doubt the underlying orientation, attitude and belief of such a man, in those days our our present day. Directly or by euphemism, obfuscation and mis-direction or disguise; this "vile maxim" is central to our current national and inter-national situation.

I hope any left there is or remains, whether reformist or otherwise remains Loud and Alert in every way possible. Outfits like the Carlyle Group and others are salivating and hungry. Hence the interminable exhortations on the MSM and elsewhere on 'getting the program through the congress' as quickly as possible. "Get'em while they're down and confused". Let's neither be down or confused! Challenge bald assertions (ultimately backed not by reason but by sheer Power and Force - by Might, not Right). Question them relentlessly! A vast number of citizens are being primed and made ready for dis-possession and servitude.

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» Talkville: correction Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Talkville: correction Posted by: janakiblum
» RE: Talkville: correction Posted by: talkville
The gambling explanation is brilliant
Posted by: racetoinfinity on Sep 23, 2008 1:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This post deserves more than five comments. The gambling explanation of the American economy and the easy accession to this bail out is new and very illuminating!

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» America as one big Casino Posted by: Cathyc
CRASH @ the KOOL-AID STATE ( FASCIST ECONOMY )
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Sep 23, 2008 2:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Socialize" losses at the rigged crashes and take blood profits at pre-cooked bubbles. Or as anti-Fascist historian Gaetano Salvemini said: "The State pays for the blunders of private enterprise... Profit is private and individual. Loss is public and social."

Organized Corporate Crime metaphor:

Paulson is a ruling class capo Mafiosi selling an extortion racket that needs to go down very fast and hard before America wakes up. By the time the general public realizes the Wall Street "bailout" is a private hijack and takeover operation on the American economy guaranteed to be unaccountable, the next band of temp ruling class stooges will be in office making their usual excuses.

This started with a private Ponzi trap “Federal Reserve” Corporation (never federal, zero reserves) that prints money out of thin air in a failsafe giveaway program to the ultra-privileged. For the present, Paulson and Bernanke both seek to protect over a QUADRILLION dollars ($1,240 TRILLIONS) of a derivates Wall Street bubble for near 20 times the planet’s global GDP (Bank of International Settlements figure). In other words, they seek to prop up ruling class avarice that has become insanity.

The truth is, Organized Corporate Crime rule has already broken the globe. The criminals now want to putsch the results of massive greed and criminal private profit onto a naïve public. It’s called FASCISM via parasite organized corporate crime rule

Manmade crisis this large ALWAYS occurs by design. Usually Fascist design. Global wars and economic crashes are about extorting public wealth for private power. Always have been.



“I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again.”
Federal Reserve Governor Ben Bernanke (Conference to Honor Milton Friedman, University of Chicago 2002)

“The Federal Reserve [Corporation] definitely caused the great depression by contracting the amount of currency in circulation by one-third from 1929 to 1933.”
MILTON FRIEDMAN (conservative Nobel Laureate economist speaking on NPR. Quote 1996)

“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
President FDR (on Fascist rule in a letter to corporate con man “Colonel” Edward M. House, a founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson for the foisting of the privately rigged “Federal Reserve” Corp bank monopoly. 11/21/ 1933)

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Oops!  Too Late!
Posted by: The Old Hippie on Sep 23, 2008 2:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
 
“Let's Stop the Greatest Theft in the History of Humankind”

Mr. Spengler is kidding - Right?!? 

Stop it?!?  It has been ‘allowed’ to be ongoing for the last 7-1/2 frickin’ years.

Granted this ‘bailout’ is a new level of the ongoing theft, but this “...invitation to abuse of power unparalleled in American history,...”, as Spengler phrased it, is something that has been going on during the whole of this administration’s time in power.  Sneeringly.  Openly.  Criminally.

By the end of 2001, they had already stripped out the record surplus left to them by Clinton’s administration, and proceeded to empty the treasury into the pockets of their very-very-few through illegal and unethical no-bid contracts, and already had begun the beginnings of their legalized war-profiteering, which blossomed whole-hog from March of 2003 through to today.

Maybe the author didn't read or watch the following... [I did...]

“What the IT is”

“Dominance Mythology 101: The Decline And Fall Hasn't Just Begun, It's Well On Its Way”

“My Hypothesis: The Aristocracy is going to bankrupt this country”

“Return of the Robber Barons”

“Zeitgeist - The Movie”

“War Profiteers”

Those ‘dated’ links are just to get you started...  Carry on...
 

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» Thank you Old Hippy... Posted by: ~Fiona~
» RE: Oops!  Too Late! Posted by: astralman
BUSH'S crisis Management Technique:Create a Crisis and then Rob US Blind!
Posted by: Ottomatic on Sep 23, 2008 2:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wall Street is corrupt and caused the problem to begin with.
The Schlock Market is a Ponzi Scheme!
This is Corporate Blackmail.
FREEZE Foreclosures instead.
Save the People instead of this Pack of Corpirate Crooks.
This is another example of
BUSH'S crisis Management Technique.
Create a Crisis and then rob the American people Blind.
He is an Abomination.
Please,
STOP BUSH!
He is a Lying, Spying, Treasonous, Torturous Sack of SH-T.
He has stolen 7,000 Billion DOLLARS already.
Instead, we could provide Citizens with Health Care and a Renewable Energy Package that would provide Green Energy to this Country forever!
Help free us from The Grip of Foreign Oil and kick the dirty Fossil Fuel Habit.
Put Main Street First!
STOP the WAR and Harvest
The PEACE Dividend!
Bring the Militia Home!

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Just a secondary thouth...
Posted by: The Old Hippie on Sep 23, 2008 2:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
 
The fact that this nation’s citizens haven’t yet risen in revolt...

Is...  Well...  Kind of...

Revolting.

(right?)

Back in the mid-late sixty’s through the mid seventy’s, this old, (then young,) hippie rose up, marched, and protested, and I will again...

But I don’t see the citizens rising as they did back then, but of course, back then we still had a free-press diversified media, that actually let the people know, and actually explained, ‘the knowledge’ we needed to make informed decisions.

For now I'll continue my optimistically cynical web site and blog, and these comments, trying to spread the word, but I feel even this is in vain, just singing to the choir - They don't read, or watch, or listen to us.

(sigh.)
 

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» RE: Just a secondary thouth... Posted by: weathered
Bailout is only way, here's why ...
Posted by: eric25690 on Sep 23, 2008 2:58 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This will be the largest transfer of wealth from the middle class (US taxpayer) to the rich in the history of the world! I suppose I should feel bad for making $43 Million in total bonuses over the last decade, with my business pretty much run like a casino. I did feel bad at first, until one of my colleagues put the matter in perspective. He explained that the middle class's main function is to keep the economy functioning. Usually, they serve this purpose by working and consuming. A byproduct of their function is that they have collectively accumulated more total money than the rich. There isn't enough money to solve this crisis by going to the rich, but there is enough money in the hands of the middle class. So, the middle class are really needed to solve this crisis, and there really is no alternative. My colleague went on the compare the middle class to ants in an ant colony. He explained that the queen of the colony doesn't feel bad for her situation relative to the worker ants, and we shouldn't feel bad either.
Eric

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» RE: Bailout. I don't suppose Posted by: Urstrly
» Perhaps, but very badly done... Posted by: photon's feather
Try 'Em & Fry 'Em
Posted by: Direct Democracy on Sep 23, 2008 3:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Joe Biden said on September 3 that he and Barack Obama will pursue criminal charges against the Bush administration.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/news/16917#comment-129791

Contact the Obama/Biden campaign and tell them that unless there is repeated, emphatic commitment on this issue you aren't going to vote for them and you're going to encourage others to refuse to vote for them also.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/contact2

FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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latest in the disaster series
Posted by: apparently on Sep 23, 2008 3:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the latest installemt of what Naomi Klein calls disaster captialism. The Bushies, bankers and candlestick makers are using this disaster of their own fabrication not simply for a "bailout," but as a way to consolidate power/capital. Without some modicum of oversight and ability to punish and prosecute, we will be left as weak as ever and as precarious as ever.

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'Revenge a Dish Best Served COLD'-Freeze, Seize & Ship 'em
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 23, 2008 4:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go ahead write the damn check- get the citizens of this country and around the world back to work- or at least assure they stay working But then.....
Go After every SOB who were complicit in this US Treasury Heist.Not just this Bailout, but for the Illegal (Blood for Oil) Wars- The oil and Auto industry top exec and top share holders(those who actually get a voice in the board rooms)
FREEZE, SEIZE AND SHIP THEIR DYING ASS OVER TO THEIR CREDITORS TO PAY OFF THE BALANCE DUE!
It has not just been an agenda of this Admin which has brought US to the Global Welfare Line- it has been decades of this 'Shit rolls Down Hill' economics.If the SOB is dead- relieve their Benefctors of their Ill Gotten gains.
These Global Gamblers have not only CAUSED most of the violence (9/11) around the World with their attempts to devalue Humanity, but have worked hand and hand with Oppressive regimes to stoke the fires of hatred (Saudi's)of America.
Why did AQ target the WTC TWICE? What is Housed at the Pentagon? Where was flight 93 heading for? They are/were Military Industrial Complex bunkers.Oh but lets Not just limit ourselves to the Suppliers, We must focus on their network of Pushers- The Auto industry, Wall Street' Investment bankers' and Mortage lenders and of course every politician who has worked as accomplices (Traitors)
These 'Brick & Mortars' have been working on Devaluing thecommodity called Human labor since time began, tripped up a little after FDR, but have been working diligently to undo that Unprofitable ideology ever since.
They have created an era of endentured slavery- can't quit a job, becuase you can't afford it, owe to much in Debt, won't have health care coverage and most likely will not find another one in this Highly competive job market...Invisible Shackles.Through My lifetime alone they have driven down the price of Labor, cut benefits and caused a shortage of jobs. My Generation (40's) will NEVER retire-except when we drop over dead (unless we make the Gamblers & Traitors pay off Guido's Godfathers).Our children in their 20's have already been led to the auction block (already in debt for atleast $16,000 each) and now they are lining up our grandchildren.
These Freidmanites have no remorse doing this to US, because they have been doing it throughout the World for far longer. I feel no Remorse to Place them and Theirs in the same position.."Can I get 500,000 for this Pretty little blonde heiresss?" I hear Asian Businessmen Love Blondes.
So here's their Choice- PAY UP or You descendants will Be placed on the Global Futures Market. In fact we will get a Greater Return with YOUR kids then we will with ours- High Priced Trophies.
Ok this is Tongue in Cheek- but the reality of what these Human Traffickers have done, and ultimately Who will have to pay, makes this daydreamer Unremorseful.

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The bailout is necessary but it's up to us not to let them take everything.
Posted by: woodstockdc on Sep 23, 2008 4:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The bailout is absolutely necessary, unless of course you really want mass global layoffs, the destruction of the retirement savings of everyone over 45 or so, and almost universal poverty (think breadlines and soup kitchens only, who will be running them), but we do not have to let those greedy, deregulating bastards completely fleece us.

The reality is that if you took out a home loan you knew you didn't have the money to pay thinking that you could just refinance later and take advantage of the market conditions you *deserve* to lose your house (last time I checked one of the core American values was we pay off what we borrow).

The reality is that if you voted Republican in any Federal election since 1976 you are partially responsible for this mess.

The reality is that every American above the poverty line is going to have to learn the meaning of "live within your means" really quickly.

It's going to get uglier before it gets better.

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» I thought that another core value was... Posted by: photon's feather
Syd
Posted by: sparlow on Sep 23, 2008 4:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Monies should be given to those homeowners in trouble as long term loans. By doing so they can then make their payments keeping their homes and as they pay make the banks whole. And under strict
We need a return to strong and healthy oversight and surveillance.

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Money Pit
Posted by: Karl.Ben on Sep 23, 2008 4:08 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Basically we are against government bail outs...and I am , but if this situation were left unattended, it would reverberate throughout the economy - not just the banks. Try getting a loan, the home construction business would dry up, as would all associated business. As the economy slowed even more, other business would feel the impact.

It still might not be over but to sit by and do nothing is not the answer. Funny how the repub's are acting like dems and the dems are sounding like repubs!

Bottom line..not everyone in America should be able to buy a house - common sense has to prevail - that seems in shorter supply than money!.



They're both a mess!

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» RE: Money Pit Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Money Pit Posted by: Quannah
Does this mean that hell has frozen over?
Posted by: blogoffanddie on Sep 23, 2008 4:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who'd a thought that our free market Republicans/Conservatives 'masters of the universe' would become stock market socialists. I wonder, does this mean that hell has frozen over?

Even when they totally screw up, US presidents, bankers and weathermen get to keep their jobs. Why?

OK, the weatherman is amusing, but what of the other two.

But, thank God we have socialism for the rich. Seriously, how would they make the payments on their multi-million dollar mansions and Mercedes’ without a little helping hand from Joe Middle Class American Taxpayer - who might even get to keep his job, if those market boys don’t ship it to China with the rest of America’s wealth.

http://blogoffanddie.wordpress.com

The American Dream is failing because the American Dream has become the world's nightmare.

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"Let's Stop the Greatest Theft in the History of Humankind"
Posted by: ~Fiona~ on Sep 23, 2008 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok Otto... Just "How" does the average american do that???

I know, I'm going to get the standard answer, "Write your congressman", "Call them and tell them what you think." Etc... I've done all that and you know what Otto... "Nobody is home!" Its like an old movie where Mickey Rooney says to the little high school gang, "Let's put on a Show!", easy for people like yourself to say, but without a way of doing it we are left in the same hopeless boat we've been in for the past 8 years...

If any of you want to answer my question, why don't one of you point me in the direction of "alternet.wire"... I haven't been able to find it in about 3 weeks...

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» Hiya' Beck! Posted by: ~Fiona~
» RE: Hiya' Beck! Posted by: Beck
» Really? Posted by: ~Fiona~
One must first understand how the system works, then why it doesn't
Posted by: halg on Sep 23, 2008 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the problem is that Wall Street, like the ethnic godfather in the old joke, has made America an offer it can't understand.

It can't understand the offer because we (the public) don't really understand economics that well to begin with. Add in the derivative and secondary markets and you have a very confusing and inelegant model of economic life support -- it's easy to see how we don't understand it all.

Worse, though, is that most of us are still suckered into watching MSM. Now most of us will never even know what is happening, much less what is broken about the underlying system.

I hope I am not insulting anyone by saying this. But I think the MSM has a mind-numbing effect on the public, precisely as it wants. The MSM fails to explain very much to the public, but acts more as a diversion and shock mechanism to keep people on edge and stressed and panicky. This state of mind makes for easy mass manipulation.

Paulson's dreadful scheme will become law, because Americans love their bankers.

See above. I don't "love" my banker. Or any banker for that matter. At least not any more or less than my grocer or landlord.

No, the scheme will become law because our government -- largely made up of cartoon characters, action figures, and former beauty queens -- is owned and operated by the same crooks that caused this mess.

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Me Ranting
Posted by: meranting on Sep 23, 2008 4:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep shaking my head in disbelief. Could anything be more clear? Can you believe the Republicans' utter denial of the fact that the completely messed up the country? Every quotation of Reagan during the primaries: debunked. Every conservative mantra: rendered complete BS. The only thing good that will come out of this is a clear idea of whether the Democrats can finally lock this down. I have my doubts, but I won't give up hope quite yet...

Me Ranting

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Message To Wall Street
Posted by: left_libertarian on Sep 23, 2008 4:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go to bankruptcy court.

Or get a job you bums and pay your own debts!

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Just what I always wanted
Posted by: taxidriver on Sep 23, 2008 5:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I always wanted to spend my taxpayer money on a bunch of defaulted mortgages and bankrupt banks. I guess I can add these to my Predator drones and Hellfire missiles. Perhaps we can waste another trillion and "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran," as McCain likes to sing.

Another sad sign of our decline and fall ...

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OK, so a Capitalist, a Congressman, and a Homeowner walk up to the Fed Window ...
Posted by: halg on Sep 23, 2008 5:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The guys at the window tell the visitors that they have to let the Government rape them, unless they have a zillion dollars.

So the Capitalist thinks, hell, I've got more money than God anyway. What the fuck. He reaches down into his deep pockets and pulls out a gigantic wad of chump change and hands it to the official. They let him pass.

Then the Congressman walks up to the window. He reaches into the Homeowner's pockets and gives all of his money to the officials. They let him pass.

Then the Homeowner walks up to the window (this is the funny part). He tells the officials he doesn't have any money because he lost his high-tech job to India, lost the equity in his home and his pension to shady investment bankers, and used up all his savings paying for Medical treatments because his Insurance company refused to cover it. So the officials procede to rape his "whiney" ass and beat the goddamned fucking living crap out of whatever he has left, leaving him and his children broke and homeless to die a slow and painful economic death in a pool of future debt.

Pretty funny, huh?

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Call for a general strike
Posted by: jcalhoun on Sep 23, 2008 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they go through with this... we should have a general strike, or refuse to pay taxes..

.. but of course we're too distracted with the opening season of dancing with the stars, so maybe after that.

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» RE: Call for a general strike Posted by: funnyfarm12
The Real Punchline
Posted by: loxias on Sep 23, 2008 6:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The really funny part is that the Homeowner keeps getting in line at that Fed window.
My sympathy meter is at ZERO.
If you stand in line to get raped, you deserve to get raped.
When I see people stand up, legislatively or otherwise, to the offenders; when I see people actually vote in their interests (or wake up and stop voting en masse); when people try to stop letting themselves get bullied into handing over everything... then I'll feel their pain.

The bulk of the citizenry have handed over their intellect, their beliefs, their checkbook, their personal rights, their military, their self-respect and their health to a minority of gluttonous profiteers.
That is the new religion.
"I believe that I am not getting raped, therefore I am not getting raped."
Now back to our sponsors, beer, sports and porn.

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» But some of us are... Posted by: photon's feather
The party's over
Posted by: Democritus on Sep 23, 2008 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it time to turn off the lights? That's what the Bush team is preparing to do. But first, we've got to "drill, baby, drill" to give more money to Big Oil. After all, Big Oil needs one last favor before the Bushies leave town.

Second, one last favor for Wall Street, which has been unstinting in its support of the Bushie policies--war, corruption,huge CEO compensation packages--brought to you in the lying pages of The Wall Street Journal. So Hank Paulson gets out there with his bold $1 trillion bail-out of the greedy bankers--no real oversight, mind you; no punitive measures taken against the perpetrators of this colossal financial melt-down. Let's just blame it on the poor saps who got taken in by the glitzy ads that promised them their piece of the pie. They're gamblers, make them pay; and by the way make those who didn't gamble pay, as well. But don't expect the "masters of the universe" to pay. Just let them roam free to sell their snake oil on another corner.

And just who in hell is Henry Paulson to be telling Congress that his plan is the only game in town? He's nothing but an unelected bozo who belongs to the same club as the ill-fated former chairman of FEMA (of "You're doing a heckofa job, Brownie" fame). It's time for Congress to get a backbone. Tell Paulson he's out of luck, and so are the expectant Wall Street bankers with their hands out. Will that happen? It's not likely, but just think of what might happen if it did. The overinflated stock market would crash, but then a responsible government would pick up the pieces, as it did in 1930, and we would slowly dig ourselves out of the pit. FDR did it. Obama can do it. We just have to have the courage to let the banks fail quickly, rather than have them fail gradually, with us along with them.

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Alex Jones says Fed Reserve Deliberately Imploded Economy
Posted by: bottom-line on Sep 23, 2008 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[Excerpt from TRANSCRIPT of Alex Jones Interview of Jim Marrs 9/21/08 on KLGB]:

ALEX: "If you go and you look at the evidence in the book I wrote back in 2002, 9/11, Descent into Tyranny, the last chapter lays out how in the next eight years, and we’re now six years into that, how they would artificially implode the debt, restrict the credit, and then “have a bailout” that basically bankrupted the people of the world to the IMF and World Bank and to the private families that own the private Federal Reserve and the IMF and World Bank.

So this is the big scam. The banks can’t trick you to take out a loan on a farm you can’t pay because what they really want is that land. The banks can’t trick you to sign away your birthright and your children’s future. But they can go buy off your government, militarize your police and military, generationally, while they get the wealth off the control they have in the earlier sets of the Ponzi scheme, and then come in and bring in total tyranny.


And this is what they have done. So this is not a bail-out you are seeing. This is mass raping of the economy. This is done by design, and they are moving in army brigades so that when you really find out what’s happening, when you riot because they’ve taken your pension fund and destroyed your future, they can use microwave guns and machine guns down the street.

Now the good news is, most of the military and police I’ve talked to are now aware of this because of people like Jim Marrs and myself and others who have been out there warning people, so they are not going to go along with it.

I wish this wasn’t the truth, but it’s really happening.

Now, it’s been said many different ways by many different historians and people of note, philosophers, that those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. And if one wants to understand the present and the future, they’d have a grasp of history because humans tend to act the same; there’s nothing new under the sun, and the same scams get developed, the same ideas, the same mindsets. And if you study the Nazis and you study Fascism in Italy and Germany, and if you learn who the players were in the United States, England and Germany, who funded the fascists and the communists, and when you read books by Carroll Quigley, the top Georgetown professor and Bill Clinton’s mentor, he explains it in a 900-page book how the big banks funded the fascists and the communists, and they created a dialectic. They control the left/right. And then you think you have a choice, but it’s a controlled choice.

But they are going with the fascist model right now. They brought down the communist model in ’91. That got them some control and domesticated the population. Now they are going with the fascist model.

Now don’t think of a Nazi as a guy with a mustache. I have a picture here I drew on the front of Newsweek, “What Bush Got Right,” and I drew a little mustache on him. And you know we can joke about that all day, but he is just a puppet. But his (GWB's) grandfather was the head U.S. Nazi in the United States, and that was even in the New York Times 50 some years ago. So Jim Marrs, best-selling author, wrote the book Crossfire on JFK, helped write the screenplay and was the main consultant on that film. His new book, The Rise of the Fourth Reich is a New York Times best-seller, available everywhere and as well at Infowars.com, along with the film I made four years ago about the same subject. But he’s got 100 times more detail, and it is shocking.

And so when the Nazis were brought to the U.S. when Germany fell, they were coming back home. They were coming from where they’d sprung. And that’s why they were put in charge of not just NASA but every other major agency.

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» "Gather round while I sing you... Posted by: photon's feather
Message to superrich conservative parasites
Posted by: Beck on Sep 23, 2008 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get a real job, you bottom feeders. You serve no function to a healthy society. You're parasites, and have sucked us dry long enough.

And to the nonrich conservative hosts who LIKE supporting parasites that care nothing about you or us, stop the preaching. It's far too obvious what the bloodsuckers have done now.

Maybe we should move to China. That's where the rich Republicans moved our jobs. I've heard I can make a dime an hour there.

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Will China, Japan, etc ... please flip the FORECLOSURE SWITCH and put this country out of its MISERY
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 23, 2008 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
already ?!?!? The longer they prolong the borrowing the worse things get on all sides. Right now, the only winners are the monied elites on both sides while the LOSERS are the working class on both sides !

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X-POLYGAMIST WIFE in ARIZONA
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Sep 23, 2008 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Republicans want us all barefoot and pregnant.

Watch the video:

http://www.bankingonheaven.com

BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM

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By the way, continuously foreign borrowing is just turning the USA into Terri Schiavo !
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 23, 2008 6:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So how long will both parties keep that borrowing insertion tube intact? Until they forcefully cut it off ?!?!?

GOD IS SEVERELY PUNISHING AMERICA TO ETERNAL DAMNATION FOR ENDLESS BORROWING !!

And Alternet, please correct your fucking title length limits, god damn it ! People should be free to post as much as they fucking want !!

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The Bailout is a "done deal"
Posted by: henkle110936 on Sep 23, 2008 7:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Burning cars, street riots, demonstrations, etc., achieve nothing. It is but a venting of emotions, a false belief that something is being done, when nothing is actually accomplished. The answer to corruption in government, is the establishment of FEAR in the circles of the corrupt. The execution of all those in a position of power and influence and the recovery of all those billions of dollars stolen is the only satisfying remedy. Of course execution would be stayed for all those who repented and returned those millions voluntarily, confessed their wrong-doings, and changed their attitude, morals, and conduct. I see a time when activists, acting alone, fed up with the current system, will become silent and invisible assassins of all those known to have corrupted and bankrupted the country, so that their ill-gained fortunes at the public expense will have gained them nothing but a sure death at the hand of an irate sniper. Petition of the government and social justice is meaningless in a society where the rich elite control the lives and fortunes of the poor...and the government. It is too late for revolution in such a state. Your life is controlled and monitored. The forces that be would quickly put down an armed army of insurrectionists...but individuals, as the Minute Men of the first Revolution, who struggled independently of the laws created to contain them as slaves of the state can be highly effective in bringing the treat and fear of retribution to the abusers of the law and their sworn duties to the people. Graft, greed, and government corruption must come to an end or this nation will become a third rate depressed nation in this world paying homage to all the nations that were once dependent on the U.S. for their very existence. Selective Terror is a highly effective weapon when the targets know that they are subject to it. As someone once said, "Desperate times requires desperate measures". But none of this will ever happen because the people of the United States are a bunch of conformists who would never question the right of the government to pass any law that directly affects their personal life and fortunes. The upcoming bailout plan is but one of a number of restrictive and special interest laws that our corrupt government have passed to their own personal advantage. The bailout plan will be passed...count on it. We as a people are powerless to prevent it. "They" are in charge and do whatever they desire without consent of the people.

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Dumb Criminals Rob Banks
Posted by: sumwoman on Sep 23, 2008 7:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Intelligent Ones Setup Banks


first you must pull your collective heads
out of your collectives asses...

good luck with that

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Pathetic
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 23, 2008 7:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow, its pretty pathetic isnt it. Sad indeed but its clear now that the Bush Regime has lost complete touch with the common man and only cares to help the filthy rich stay rich.

Jiffers
Ultimate Anonymity

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Alex Jones Interview of Jim Marrs, 9/21, KLBJ cont.
Posted by: bottom-line on Sep 23, 2008 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JM: Well, actually you could probably go back into the 1800s into the Rothschild mode of banking where they pitted the European nations against each other for profit and control. But let’s just go to the Russian Revolution of 1917. When that happened, Woodrow Wilson, who was president of the United States at the time, wrote that the bulk of financial aid to Russia at that time did not go to the Democratic Kerensky government; it went to the Bolsheviks who became the communists. So we created the communists, or Wall Street bankers and Bank of England bankers created the communists in 1917.

Lenin was not even in Russia; he was in Switzerland. He was aided in passing through war-time Germany with German intelligence and a German banker including Max Warburg. The reason Max Warburg is interesting is because his brother Paul Warburg started the Federal Reserve, had come over here, participated in the conspiracy of Jekyll Island, had created the Federal Reserve system, and was head of the Federal Reserve system at the time of WWI and in fact was in charge of funding the war effort for the U.S. in WWI. And his brother is funding the German war effort, to show you how they play both sides.

AJ: Now, hundreds of books have been written about this. It’s mainline history. It’s now declassified that the U.S. government put Mao in. But a lot of leftists are going, “What do you mean the bankers funded the communists?” Explain that to them.

JM: Well, they sent the aid to Lenin, and whoever pays you money controls it. The philosophical leader of communism was Leon Trotsky, and then in 1917 he was living on Rockefeller land and working in New York. But they put him on a boat with about $40 million, raised from Wall Street capitalists including the Schiffs, and 300 revolutionaries, and they sent him off to Russia. And Woodrow Wilson, through his mentor Colonel House, gave him an American passport, sent to Russia, and along with Lenin created communism in Russia.

Now, Alex, I think the game plan was, they were going to create a socialist East and they were going to pit it against a capitalist West for what we came to know as the Cold War. But what happened, the communists created the Internationale, and they said, Workers of the World Unite! And they created very powerful communist parties in Italy, France, Germany, Britain, the United States, so these capitalists were going, “Wait a minute, we don’t want this. If it becomes one world socialism, then we can’t play off one nation against another or one block against another.”

So they decided they had to stop the spread of communism. So to achieve that, they reached into Germany, the one country in the middle of Europe that was in a position to stop the theological and military spread of communism. They found a German army intelligence agent, who they funded and helped create the National Socialist German Workers Party, and of course that was Adolph Hitler.

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Alex Jones interviews Jim Marrs cont:
Posted by: bottom-line on Sep 23, 2008 8:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AJ: And you’ve got to remember that NAZI is an acronym for National Socialist. And National Socialists are really no different than communist socialists, the only difference being that you could confine them within one national boundary, and you could keep it within Germany, within Italy. That way the bankers could continue to play off one country against another. So that led up to WWII.

AJ: That’s mainline history that the Nazi party was founded and run by German intelligence, funded by British intelligence and Lord Milner’s group. So the whole thing was run out of Britain; and Britain right up into the war was running Germany.

It’s common knowledge that the U.S. and England funded Hitler, but he was like a rock star. He was all over the newsreels, all over radio. My grandfather remembers growing up in Dallas and he was in the newspapers, on radio, what a great guy he was, right up until 1939 or so.

Jim Marrs, continue because this then connects into today, and this isn’t like, ‘Oh, there’s a few Nazis in the government.’ This is the governing system! The Nazi symbols are in the Senate, the Fascia; it’s how the government is being run, the black uniforms, the national police force, the Homeland. That’s what Hitler called it was the Reich land, which means Homeland.

Jim Marrs, please continue.

JM: Well, let me just preface by quickly pointing out to everyone that’s listening that when we say “fascists and Nazis are taking over in the United States,” we’re not talking about goose-stepping Germans. No. The Germans lost the war. We’re talking about the National Socialists that funded the Nazis, put them in power, kept them power, and then brought them over here after the war.

I’ve already rattled off some of the corporations that were supporting the Nazis prior to the war: Brown Brothers Harriman, the JF IBM. IBM produced very specialized punch cards for the German IBM equipment that allowed them to ship all the Jews and the dissidents off to the concentration camps. General Motors, Ford, they were producing war materials for the Nazis because business after all is just business.

AJ: In fact our bombers weren’t allowed to bomb those GM and Ford plants, turning out Panzers.

JM: I read an account of a German worker at the General Motors plant, said when they had a bombing raid everybody would run to the General Motors plant because they knew it was safe.

In 1936 Time Magazine referred to Schroeder, Rockefeller and Company, investment bankers, as the “economic booster of the Rome/Berlin Axis. And their attorneys were two fellows from the New York law firm Sullivan and Cromwell, John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles. Allen Dulles’s mentor was John J. McCloy, chairman of City National Bank which is now Citicorp, and John J. McCloy sat with Hitler in his box at the 1936 Berlin Olympics.

AJ: And those guys go on to be the CIA director, and then they are tied into the assassination of Kennedy.

JM: Right. After the war, John J. McCloy gets to be the high commissioner of Germany, and he pardons about 100,000 Nazis and sends them to the United States. His protégé, Allen Dulles, was the longest serving CIA director, and through the CIA and through Operation Paperclip which went under the radar of Presidents Eisenhower and Truman, they were never made fully aware of what they were really doing. They altered and whitewashed the backgrounds of thousands of these Nazis, changing it from an ardent Nazi to not an ardent Nazi, enrolled them into the CIA.

cont. below

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THE ONLY THING THAT COULD SAVE USA IS AN OBJECTIVE SOCIALIST REVOLUTIONARY SITUATION
Posted by: marxistsocialist on Sep 23, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THE ONLY THING THAT COULD SAVE USA IS AN OBJECTIVE SOCIALIST REVOLUTIONARY SITUATION:


HERE ARE THE MAIN 3 TRAITS OF A REVOLUTIONARY SITUATION IN USA:


# 1 - When it is impossible for the rich people of this country (like Bill Gates, Jennifer Lopez, Tom Cruise, Donald Trump, Al Gore, Ross Perot, Dick Cheney, etc.) to maintain their wealth without any change; when there is an economic crisis, in one form or another, among the rich people, a crisis in the policy of the rich ruling class, leading to a fissure through which the discontent and indignation of middle and lower classes of America burst forth. For a socialist-revolution to take place, it is usually insufficient for the middle and lower classes not to want to live in their old comfortable and stable way; it is also necessary that the rich upper millionaire class should be unable to live in their old comfortable way.


# 2 - When the suffering and the needs of the middle and lower working classes of this country have grown more acute than usual


# 3 - When, as a consequence of the above causes, there is a considerable increase in the activity of the middle and working classes, who uncomplainingly allow themselves to be robbed in peace time, but, in turbulent times, are drawn both by all the circumstances of the crisis *and by the upper classes themselves* into independent historical action.

.

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More Alex Jones
Posted by: halg on Sep 23, 2008 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know, there aren't nearly enough blog posts about Alex Jones and other conspiracy theorists here.

Maybe someone can connect the Bailout of Wall Street with Area 51, 9/11, and the JFK assassination.

(Now watch someone actually does this here ... LOL)

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» RE: More Alex Jones Posted by: halg
» RE: More Alex Jones Posted by: Dboy
» Dear bottom-line, Posted by: Cathyc
Alex and Jim Marrs on Nazi takeover of America cont.
Posted by: bottom-line on Sep 23, 2008 8:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AJ: But for every Nazi they had others who in many cases the Nazis were actually protégés of. It’s important to add that the Nazis in many respects were the protégés of a eugenics elite already in England and the U.S.

JM: That’s exactly right. The first major eugenics study – “eugenics” being the study of heredity, of racial purity, who’s your daddy –

AJ: Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that he was a student of “experts in the U.S.” That’s where he got it all.

JM: Exactly. In fact the first major eugenics foundation in the United States was set up by Mrs. E. F. Harriman, and it was her husband Edward Harriman who was the protector and mentor of Prescott Bush. Prescott Bush was a director of Union Banking Corporation and was a focal point for handling the money from steel magnate Fritz Tyson to Adolph Hitler. Tyson has publicly taken credit for funding Hitler to a large extent, and Prescott Bush was handling the money.

AJ: He wrote the book, I Paid Hitler.

JM: Exactly. In late 1942, Prescott Bush was even prosecuted by the federal government of the U.S. under the Trading with the Enemies Act for being nothing but a Nazi financial front man. And of course now we’ve had two of – his son George Herbert Walker Bush, former president of the U.S., and his grandson is now president of the United States. In fact, if you think about it, we’ve got the president of the United States whose grandfather was prosecuted as a Nazi front man; we’ve got the governor of the most populous state in the country Arnold Schwarzenegger, whose father was Nazi storm trooper, a party official. We’ve got Karl Rove who’s widely known as Bush’s Brain whose grandfather built concentration camps for the Nazis. And we have a pope who as a young man in Poland was a member of the Hitler Youth. It makes you wonder who really won the war.

AJ: Well, they had the giant rail cars full of diamonds, everything. That was brought into Texas, because my grandfather worked for the oil companies and he saw it. He said there were more Germans in Midland than there were Texans, and just unbelievable stories. But continue. Let’s break this down for people.

JM: Well, they began to create the military industrial complex, but more importantly –

AJ: Let’s explain. The 1947 National Security Act, COG, Continuity of Government, mirrored the Nazi set-up.

JM: Oh, exactly. And all of this fit right into Operation Eagle Flight, which was Morton Borman who was Hitler’s secretary, who survived the war, escaped to South America, was seen in the United States a few times, and towards the end of August 1945 when it became obvious that the D-Day landings were going to be successful and they wouldn’t be able to throw us off the continent, he met with Herman Schmitz, head of the I.G. Fabens Chemical Combine, which is the grandfather of all the major pharmaceutical companies today, and with the head of the German Central Bank, and they instituted Operation Eagle flight. They took everything worth anything, patents, copyrights, licenses, gold, silver, precious stones, art, antiquities, scientists – everything. They took it out of Germany.

AJ: Germany had just looted Europe and parts of Russia, Eastern Europe, but they already had more industrial patents, science, A-bombs, than anybody else in the world. So that loot was contained and protected because the British royalty was really German royalty, and much of the richest families in New York were intermarried as well. So it was also a family matter.

cont. below

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Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
excuse me. why do i have to pay for someone elses house?
Posted by: cyr3n on Sep 23, 2008 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I fail to see the logic in this. I've worked fulltime for over 15 years, unmarried, didnt crank out kids I can't afford, didnt run up crazy debt, and certainly didn't buy a house. Why then must I pay $6000 for someone else to live up the 'American Dream' while I dont even have the luxury of a permanent home.

It's clear to me the bankers and congressmen who've allowed this debacle should go to jail for treason. Their assets should be confiscated and used to help stabilize the economy. There should be something done to make 1st time homeownership affordable for everyone, and that should help people currently in this mess and taxpayers who have yet to buy their own homes.

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» The choice is not hard... Posted by: Cathyc
Can I pick a different year?
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Sep 23, 2008 8:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I see what the author is saying and agree with much of it, the following phrase stuck out:

The S&P 500 Index of American equities today is worth what it was in 1997, after adjusting for inflation

Ok, well why pick 1997? Was that the year everyone suddenly put all their money into their retirement accounts?

Can I have 1994 instead? The index approximately doubled over the 2 1/2 years between the end of 1994 and the middle of 1997, going from ~460 to ~900 (it's now ~1200). Indeed, it was in the midst of this period, in December, 1996, that Fed chairman Greenspan uttered his famous "irrational exuberance" phrase (index at ~750), which was ironic seeing as how the Fed's easy money policy caused the incipient bubble in the first place. No matter, the market would double again from there, to almost 1600, before the whole thing came unwound in 2000-2002.

The money coming out of the stock market's tech bubble bursting then flowed into the housing market, helped along by massive Fed easing following 9/11. That 'worked' for about a half dozen years, just like the tech bubble ran for about a half dozen years.

However, housing is about the most unproductive use of capital imaginable, which is why the paper backing it is now so difficult to peddle and seems to require the gummint to step in a play the role of buyer of last resort. Yes, building houses employs construction workers and people at Home Despot selling faucets which need to be made in a factory somewhere, but it basically represents consumption rather than the "investment" it's often billed as being. (Which is why it's questionable policy to subsidize it with tax incentives.) Meanwhile, other countries were investing much more of their capital in things which actually make something that other people want to buy. So long as they're willing to lend us back the money we spend to buy their goods, the casino can stay open.

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Ron Paul says NO to bailing out Wall $treet !
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 23, 2008 8:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Ron Paul was right! Posted by: Spot
» RE: on Paul was right! Posted by: maxpayne
the tax payers are pissed...but no one is listening
Posted by: msalganik on Sep 23, 2008 8:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even CNN did a piece where they let readers have their say...over 90% of the people were screaming bloody murder and were dead against this... I've written and called my representative...told him to NOT support the bail out...threatened him with Novembers elections... no avail... the people in Washington are simply ignoring (in a huge way) the public and doing what their benefactors on wall street are telling them to do... we might as well level DC and start over... the government has completely detached from the people

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We've been so totally HAD
Posted by: helenwheels on Sep 23, 2008 8:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's simply amazing to see the very complicit MSM screw us once again, isn't it? There should have been rioting in the streets over a year ago when the shrub got up on a podium and announced that the Executive Branch is now above the law. But ... crickets.

So, they went on their plundering ways and, because fucking Nancy Pelosi took impeachment "off the table," they will be able to pardon everyone in their madministration, and answer to none of it. They can take the billions they bilked out of this country and traipse off to Paraguay.

Like I said above, I've been warning everyone about this for years, as have everyone else who actually takes time to read and analyze what was going on. And it's the WORST "I told you so" EVER.

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Did anyone see Paul Krugman on Countdown last night?
Posted by: helenwheels on Sep 23, 2008 8:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That guy was so visibly rattled. I have never seen so many media people so freaked out, these are the same folks who were able to stay calm on 911. Just sayin'.

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Continue the American Revolution
Posted by: amacd on Sep 23, 2008 8:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The latest mass protests in Boston against the Bush/Paulson “corporate financial Empire’s” demands on the people are lighting a fire that this empire will live to regret.

The news of mass protests from Boston is not a second Boston T(reasury) Party, but a continuation of the "outrage" against Empire that started the original Boston Tea Party!

This "outrage" in Boston is a new 'shot heard round the world' against the complete political economic empire (like the political AND economic British Empire) that allows ruling-elite 'corporate/financial Empire' to metastasize from the economic realm and take-over the political realm.

We patriots need to now continue and culminate the American Revolution, that allows America's world-changing concept of 'democracy' to freely spread from the political realm to the whole of our indivisible political economy.

'Free market democracy' is a myth --- a lie that never existed and was made up by the ruling-elite's 'corporatist Empire' to make their economic take-over of our waning political democracy sound more friendly than the truthful term; 'fascism'.

What we're facing is a far bigger battle than just the fleecing of this supposed 'bailout'.

What we are facing is the final showdown between the economic empire of ruling-elite financial royalists against the very concept of America's most innovative contribution to the world: democracy --- vs. the chance, with our courage, to finally complete the American Revolution against the rule of empire in all aspects of our lives and liberty.

Today we have the opportunity of finally achieving the successful completion of the American Revolution; where the triumph of real democracy, rather than empire, in how men govern themselves, addresses the inexorably combined power of our indivisible political economy.

The good news of this epic crisis is that the real American innovation of democracy will finally (after 232 years) be applied to both the realms of political and economic self-governance, rather than only to the political sphere --- because empire, left alone in the economic sphere, has been perverting and trying to overthrow democracy since 1776.

This is not a choice between 'free market democracy' (which is only a PR lie told by the 'corporatist Empire' behind the facade of their two-party 'Vichy' government) and the scare term of 'socialism' --- but rather the long-delayed, final battle of the American Revolution, between democratic self-governance in the unified political economy of our country, or an economic empire of their corporatist/fascist elite metastasizing from the economic realm to the political realm and the whole of our society.

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» RE: member , remember the 5th of November Posted by: common intelligence
A law BUSH pushed through recently puts capital gains Tax on you if you leave the US
Posted by: common intelligence on Sep 23, 2008 9:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wasn't it just a month or so ago Bush pushed this through. I forgot the "law". But the gist of it is if you or I want to leave the country with what ever wealth we might have, monetary or material, we can be taxed again on it. Up to 50%.

This of course excludes the real theives I'm sure. Like hows the CEO with the golden parachute from AIG that gets 47 Million to walk away?

But like one commenter above said"...it's all by design".
I find it oh so curious that these kind of things get implimented fast and prior to events like this "meltdown". It's as tough they;ve had it all planned ahead of time. Then of course this bail out is the fastest
and largest thievery to ever be pushed through be cause it's all of a sudden and emergency ? It's like how did the Bush machine just happen to draft up the Patriot act up over night eccentially? Push it through and no one read it? COme on folks this is full on coup d'etate.

These bastards have all know this was coming down for a long time.
There's nothing like an emotional knee-jerk reactional process to strike the fear of impending doom, in order to acheive a fascist agenda.

What next Bush's expanding endless war escalates to bring Americans together?

You see even the Demos in Congress are intent to do the bail out regardless of our want, all with the "provisions" as they ask, for before the bill is signed. This makes it appear the Democratic congress has our best interest in mind.

One thing for sure, these CEOs should be put in jail, and Not given any thing at all. After all are they not the irresponsible ones?

Think of this: All these "Billions" seen to be able to raised to bailout the financial institutions. They say the US will have to start selling treasury bonds to do it. WHO IN HELL CAN AFFORD TO BUY THEM?
Oh, I know.....remember all the Billions, thats billions people, that were lost somehow, un accounted for, misplaced that got shipped over to Iraq? How can any body be trusted with a trillion dollars and not realize there is going to be high theivery in high places when this is pushed through. Man, am I pissed!

This whole thing sould ignite a firestorm of accountability through out the whole system, governemnt and corporate culture.
I mean where are the corporate employees? Why do we hear nothing in outrage from their corner of the court?

I've heard more concern here than I ever hear on the street.
Where are the gatherings of Americans in protest?
Did the DNC and RNC marshal assaults scare everyone into their bedrooms under the sheets?

God damn it. It's our country. Start the revolution!
The hammer must fall !

Here's one more curious tid-bit.
After Desert Storm, General Schwartzcof got an interesting little hide away by becomeing a member or being the Chair of the "Nature CONservancy".
Now I hear, Paulson is or has been on the board of the "Nature CONservancy". Now can you put two and two together and not wonder, "what exactly is the nature of the "Nature CONservancy".
DOesn't the NC have a program to aquire land, for allegedly saving unfettered lands for future generations? Like generations of what? (not that I don't agee with the altruistic premise. But I have to wonder.)
After all these kind of greeding self servient bastards really don't care about the environment or they wouldn't bomb the living shit out of it and kill off any living thing they see including the innocent Iraqies and Afgans, just for oil, would they?
WHat, do they believe by being with the NC it helps pay off some kind of penence so their dirty deeds won't hamper their chances of getting into heaven?

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Enough with the tough talk - you will sit down for this and you'll like it!!!
Posted by: 6399 on Sep 23, 2008 10:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Face it - this is a major taxpayer ass reaming so corporate America doesn't have to endure any discomfort whatsoever. I don't care what kind of grass roots activism seeks to mothball this boondoggle, the American people are shiftless piles of goat dung that deserve precisely what they get.

Let's stop pretending that we're victims in all this. All finger wagging aside, this is precisely the kind of thing that will demonstrate to the zombified American people that they DO NOT MATTER in the greater scheme of things. Hell, it might actually do us some good.

You are taxpayers, consumers and grist for the corporate mill - all else is mere sentimentality as far as they're concerned. The only reason Pelosi and Dodd are talking tough is because they want to spin this for Obama. They are political opportunists who have stage managed their forced righteous indignation.

So many of you have already forgotten that Senator Dodd, the people's champion, took a sweatheart loan from Countrywide that came with an impossibly low interest rate and no fees. Must have been coincidence, right? I'm sure the fact that he chairs the very senate committee responsible for banking oversight was also just coincidence. I repeat - NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOU OR YOUR FAMILY! Grow up!

If I hear one more person say "write your senators", I'm going to fucking puke! Your elected officials are literally laughing in your faces. They know you'll sit down for what will ultimately be a $1.5 trillion bailout and they know you'll also forget about it in, well, whenever the next episode of America's Next Top Model airs.

You'll re-elect the scumbags who ushered in the whole corruption-based mess and you'll settle for being saddled with higher taxes and the $25 million bonuses for larcenous criminals. Please stop talking like you're actually going to do something besides grumble a little then sit the fuck down and take your medicine, ok? The world is tired of hearing from tough talking, do nothing pieces of shit Americans.

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» Stock up on Vaseline. Might as well have fun! Posted by: common intelligence
» Astroglide > KY Wet > Vaseline Posted by: hurricane hugo
Thieves in high places
Posted by: frank69 on Sep 23, 2008 10:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jim Hightower has it exactly right! "Thieves in High Places," is the title of of one of his books about the Bush regime.
Bush lied about the need for a regime change in Iraq.
In reality, the real need is a regime change here in the USA! Impeach his Bush-league ass NOW!

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Put down your keyboard and call your congressman!
Posted by: Sushi on Sep 23, 2008 10:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Write a comment, a response, then CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND SENATORS and read what you wrote out loud to them! They need to hear it! We need to say it to them, not just each other!

Sushi
"The unanswered questions are not nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers!"

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We need to identify the criminals of the economy and demand their money or their freedom
Posted by: whiteaglesoaring on Sep 23, 2008 10:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Financial pirates have stolen the money and they are the ones who should be expected to pay. Citizens were not at fault. We are not guilty other than being too naïve and forgiving. This is the biggest tax of all time and it shows no end in sight. Unlimited power given to the Secretary of the Treasury is treasonous and not forgivable. Alan Greenspan and his Russian Mafia should be brought to the bar of justice and jailed, their estates and bank accounts seized to pay for the theft of Americans’ investments, homes, jobs, and pensions.

Tracking down the criminals will not be very hard. They’ve made themselves known by their word and deed. In a 17 part series, Hedge Funds, Naked Short Selling, Phantom Stocks and Stock Market Collapse, we name them and expose their crimes. We don’t need to torture them to obtain confessions. They have already demonstrated their guilt. The SEC has pretended to investigate them, Congress has made a few noises in the past few months, but no one has had the courage to charge them with their crimes. Now they want to collect from US! Americans are finally saying NO!. But Americans need to know WHO is guilty. Specifically and in sufficient detail our protests can and will be heard or those who ignore the charges will show themselves to be guilty of malfeasance and accessories to the crimes and treason.

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A QUOTE FROM SAPPHO, @600 YEARS BEFORE CHRIST
Posted by: magiquarian1969 on Sep 23, 2008 10:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WEALTH UNCHAPARONED BY VIRTUE
IS NEVER AN INNOCUOUS NEIGHBOR

Isn't it nice to know that as a species we haven't changed at all in almost 3000 years?!?!

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Yes but HOW?
Posted by: Ahimsa on Sep 23, 2008 10:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our populace is not going to take this to the streets.
It is still divided, astonishingly after all this, more or less in halves: One half supporting the institutionalized crookery, living in a cloud of rosy mythology and a toxic culture based on distorted "values."
They (we) are fat and distracted, eating junk and buying crap. Digging their (our) own hole and asking for more.
Stop this? We need a "rapture" of sorts, some kind of revelation; although without gods, goblins, apparitions and bodies flying up to heaven, this amounts to a deeper crisis and total failure of the machinery that keeps them (us) stupefied...
How do we wake them (us) up without proposing a total social and economic meltdown? Without a crash? Without blood on the streets?
How do we change the culture overnight? Geez, sometimes I wish for miracles too...
That is what stopping this would entail.

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» RE: Yes but HOW? Posted by: bottom-line
» RE: Yes but HOW? Posted by: Spot
How?
Posted by: cellorelio on Sep 23, 2008 10:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How frustrating that an article with a title like, "Let's Stop the Greatest Theft in the History of Humankind" doesn't actually suggest how. Thanks for a lot of armchair psychology about the American public but how do we actually stop this ludicrous transfer of wealth from those of us least likely to afford the impending depression to the criminals who created this mess in the first place?

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Why I Posted Alex Jones and Jim Marrs Interview
Posted by: bottom-line on Sep 23, 2008 10:54 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jim Marrs new book is a best seller on the NY Times list, and his interview by Alex Jones this Sunday I thought was riveting. So taped the interview, transcribed it, and posted it here. Sorry if so many of you here are so miffed by it, so offended, and so closed-minded to what Jim Marrs has to say.

Here's what Amazon says about Jim Marrs' best-selling book The Rise of the Fourth Reich: [His book is a best seller on the NY Times best seller list]

"Throw out everything you think you know about history. Close the approved textbooks, turn off the corporate mass media, and whatever you do, don't believe anything you hear from the government—The Rise of the Fourth Reich reveals the truth about American power. In this explosive new book, the legendary Jim Marrs, author of the underground bestseller Rule by Secrecy, reveals the frighteningly real possibility that today the United States is becoming the Fourth Reich, the continuation of an ideology thought to have been vanquished more than a half century ago.

This concept may seem absurd to those who cannot see past the rose-colored spin, hype, and disinformation poured out daily by the media conglomerates—most of which are owned by the very same families and corporations who supported the Nazis before World War II. But as Marrs precisely explains, National Socialism never died, but rather its hideous philosophy is alive and active in modern America. Unfortunately, most people cannot understand the shadowy links between fascism and corporate power, the military, and our elected leaders.

While the United States helped defeat the Germans in World War II, we failed to defeat the Nazis. At the end of the war, ranking Nazis, along with their young and fanatical protégés, used the loot of Europe to create corporate front companies in many countries, including the United States of America. Utilizing their stolen wealth, men with Nazi backgrounds and mentalities wormed their way into corporate America, slowly buying up and consolidating companies into giant multinational conglomerates. Many thousands of other Nazis came to the United States under classified programs such as Project Paperclip. They brought with them miraculous weapon technology that helped win the space race but they also brought their insidious Nazi philosophy within our borders. This ideology based on the authoritarian premise that the end justifies the means—including unprovoked wars of aggression and curtailment of individual liberties—has gained an iron hold in the "land of the free and the home of the brave."

A reviewer on Amazon said:


2 of 3 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars

Not For The Mass Man, September 14, 2008
By Meijer Goldstein (New York, NY) - See all my reviews
Great summation of many verifiable facts for those people willing to
challenge the bs that they have been brought up to believe is true. The masses will be ready for this material only after their jobs are gone,
children brainwashed into 3rd world vulgarity and their cities lapse into
cesspools of filth and crime, then it will be too late. When the masses get a little wealth, they become lazy and decadent and the next thing we are heading for the boxcars.

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ALEX JONES IS A RIGHT-WING GAKEKEEPER
Posted by: marxistsocialist on Sep 23, 2008 10:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ALEX JONES IS A RIGHT-WING GAKEKEEPER

HELLO ALL: For most of you who rely on conspiracy-theorists as sources of information, i think you should take caution. Because some conspiracy theorists are good and progressive like Michael Parenti, however many other on the conspiracy theory camp, are white-libertarian free market nationalist with a hidden, doubious agenda, not suitable for the oppressed sectors of America victims of US corporate capitalist imperialism.

So, keep listening to Alex Jones and many other conspiracy theorists, but with a grain of salt and skepticism. Because if you notice, Alex Jones has a lot of anti-mexican messages in his agenda, and even anti-black agenda.

.

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Musical antidote to the Gulf of Wall Street bailout
Posted by: mainesongwriter on Sep 23, 2008 11:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's a musical antidote to having your head explode in anticipation of the impending Gulf of Wall Street bailout resolution:

"WE"RE GONNA HAVE A SCARY HALLOWEEN!"
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=5896354

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WOULD IT FALL?
Posted by: Ahimsa on Sep 23, 2008 11:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would the system fall if the bailout doesn't happen?
If it fell, what would be the consequences?
And If it falls, would we be willing to take the consequences?
Can we actually choose not to pay?
Can we actually chose anything at all in this?

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The Iraq war was the biggest heist in the history of humankind
Posted by: PaulK on Sep 23, 2008 12:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Falling off a building isn't hard at all. This crash is just Uncle Sam hitting the front door's awning.

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» Wars Versus Heists Posted by: PaulK
Need to vote for the Donkeys
Posted by: sre on Sep 23, 2008 12:06 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, folks, vote for Barak. He'll fix it.

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If We Need A Plan : Take the Dodd Plan ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 23, 2008 12:50 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Paulson Plan is a rip off of historic proportions ...

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Real solution to the Economy
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 23, 2008 2:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Screw the Investment firms- let them settle up with their Creditors (Front money laon sharks) Themselves.
McCain say's this bailout will cost each household about 10,000.sinc ehe is a Known LIAR, we can assume it is actually about $10,000 to each tax payer- added on top of the other 4 Trillion this Gambling Admin has racked up. Last I heard about $16,000 to each tax payer.
Heres a better solution- Cut Checks to every Tax payer for $26,000 Each...We will pay our mortages, car payments, credit card bills and have a little left over to buy something frivilous. thus we will continue to meet our fincicnial obligations and Put money back into the economy rquiring an increase in employment numbers.
Ask Any foreign creditors Who have OUR Signature on any Loans to give US an extension and we will be able to pay them back, and then some. these Corps did Not Build this country, our Economy or our Way of Life..We Built them, and we can once again rebuild this country's International Economic Status- We just need the Embezzlers taken out of the equation!

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Show Me The Money!
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Sep 23, 2008 3:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's startling to reveal the cost to bail out Wall Street's mess, BUT what will our government do "for the people" in this case? Those who aren't affiliated with the Big Banks? Will the money keep Wall Street from becoming WOE Street? Who knows.
One person called the bailout socialism for the rich. The pus hasn't flowed from the cyst yet; however the government is edgy about putting the lance in.
Remember Uncle Sam bailed out Chrysler and they still make crappy machines. This is a very big gamble. What will happen next time if the government is forced to bail out Boeing?

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and this poor man has been warning of this exact fraud for years.
Posted by: avatar_singh on Sep 23, 2008 4:40 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But he has been ridiculed by the so called main street media because he recognized that itis the british orchestrated plan to reestablish british emopire on the back of american power. and he was reviled just as the prominent jewish buinessman rudoph Hearst of publishing empre was reviled for opposing wilson's tilt to sfight on behalf of britian against ohter european powers( germany that time).

look what he has written now--

http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/09/23/larouche
"LaRouche: "This Is Straight-Out Fascism"
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September 23, 2008 (LPAC)--Lyndon LaRouche today warned Secretary of the Treasury Henry Paulson that his bailout scheme, particularly its demand, in Section 8, for absolute dictatorial decision-making powers over all aspects of the trillion-dollar bailout, "is straight-out fascism. And the American people will never tolerate this.'' LaRouche candidly added, "The American people are being screwed, and they shall not take it kindly, I would hope.''

In the past 24 hours, a handful of people have begun to join LaRouche in calling this looting swindle for what it is. In a column in today's New York Times by David Brooks, three critics of the bailout scheme were quoted. William Greider warned, "If Wall Street gets away with this, it will represent an historic swindle of the American public--all sugar for the villains, lasting pain and damage for the victims.'' Christopher Whalen of Institutional Risk Analytics wrote, "The joyous reception from Congressional Democrats to Paulson's latest massive bailout proposal smells an awful lot like yet another corporatist love fest between Washington's one-party government and the Sell Side investment banks.'' But Brooks himself added, "If you wanted to devise a name for this approach, you might pick the phrase economist Arnold Kling has used: Progressive Corporatism. We're not entering a phase in which government stands back and lets the chips fall. We're not entering an era when the government pounds the powerful on behalf of the people. We're entering an era of the educated establishment, in which government acts to create a stable--and often oligarchic--framework for capitalist endeavor.'' Economist Kling commented, on his own website, hours after the Brook article appeared, musing, "Progressive corporatism--I guess it goes down easier than liberal fascism.''

Indeed, more than 30 years ago, Lyndon LaRouche warned about the dangers of "fascism with a democratic face,'' and singled out the David Rockefeller interests as the chief American architects of this fascism. Today, the same Rockefeller interests are driving the outright corporatist/Fascist schemes of the likes of Felix Rohatyn, including his so-called Public Private Partnership Initiatives, which have been aggressively peddled by Rohatyn clones, Rockefeller Foundation director Judith Rudin, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.

"They are all fascists, of the classic fascist/corporatist tradition,'' LaRouche noted, "especially Felix 'The Fascist' Rohatyn. I don't know why more people don't have the guts to just call it for what it is: straight-out fascism. Maybe they are just afraid the American people will, sooner or later, greet them with pitch-forks.''

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Real solution to banking problem
Posted by: MisterWu on Sep 23, 2008 4:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let Congress pass a law opening a debtor prison for bankers owning more than a billion dollars. I'm sure that then these guy will delightfully find the money from somewhere to save their butts. Or at least rid us of these public nuisances.

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Drop Everything!
Posted by: purplewarrior on Sep 23, 2008 5:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's everybody drop everything. Let's all head to Washington. Now! Let's Go.

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Anyone here got any ideas about this?
Posted by: photon's feather on Sep 23, 2008 7:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Newt Gingrich is against the Paulson plan

Yeah, yeah, I know he's an [expletive of your choice]. But what goes on here?

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Dear Christian Friend,
Posted by: PaulK on Sep 23, 2008 7:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bless you! I love you! I am a Christian descended from British royalty through the American ruling class. For reasons I cannot get into right now, I have ten trillion dollars tied up in a Nigerian bank. All that I need is 700 billion dollars as a down payment to release this money. Once I get the money I will split it 50-50 with you.

Please deliver the $700 billion in small bills packed into an 18 wheeler, to G.W. Bush, the White House, Washington DC.

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» RE: Dear Christian Friend, Posted by: johnbradleycopeland
AND THEY ARE TRYING TO STEAL THE ELECTION TOO
Posted by: cori on Sep 23, 2008 8:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you are voted in by Democrats and you are doing nothing to make sure that every Democratic vote is counted then you are not worthY being in office. CALL YOUR REP AND DEMAND THAT YOU WANT YOUR VOTE COUNTED 202 224 3121


Bobby: "There are about 30 scams the Republicans are deliberately using, particularly in the swing states to get Democratic voters off the rolls. These scams originate in the so-called Help America Vote Act which was passed after the Florida debacle in the year 2000. It was originally suggested by Democrats and Republicans but it was passed by a Republican congress with a Republican senate and a Republican president. tHE gop institutionalized a series of impediments that make it very difficult for Democrats to register, for Democrats to vote and then for Democrats to have their vote counted.
And what it does is they use a computer system to compare your registration application to all other government records of you in the state. So they'll look at your social security records, your motor vehicle records and any time you've had any interaction with the government and if there is any information on your voter registration that is different than the information on another government record that they find they remove you from the voting rolls.
If your initial is different, if you leave an initial out, if you leave a "Jr." out, if you leave a hyphen out in your name. And what they've done is a study in New York that said 80% of the errors are errors that were done by state clerks who are taking down this information. And particularly immigrant communities that people tend to vote Democratic, people have names …

Bobby: "No, the Democrats are doing nothing to stop it. In New Jersey, which is a swing state, 300,000 voters in New Jersey were just sent letters saying that they are now ineligible to vote. - most states will not even notify them. And New Jersey intends to send out 870,000 letters so that is three quarters of a million people off the voting rolls in a state that could decide this vote by 50,000 votes. And these are Democrats that are being DELETED. Bobby: "Let me tell you about one other of these scams people should know about. If you're a newly registered voter - - if you're a new voter you MUST include your license or some other state I.D. when you come to vote. What that means is that if you're a college kid (and college kids now - they're sending in absentee ballots - they're not going to the voting place, they do everything online or they do everything remotely - they don't dream of going to the precinct house voting on election day and waiting in a long line) so if they send in the absentee ballot and they don't include a color copy of their license their vote is going to be thrown into a trash can. And none of these people know this because you have had to read the law in order to know it. So there is no notification for when you fill out your registration form, so all of those 12 million people that the Democrats have registered: those ballots are going to be just thrown out.
Pap: "And if Democrats won't talk about this how the hell's anybody gonna know about it? MORE ON TRUTHOUT.

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Bastille Day for the USA
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Sep 23, 2008 9:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
!

jdfu!

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Stop this version
Posted by: Jeanne on Sep 23, 2008 9:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Contact your senators and make sure they know you oppose this version of the "rescue" bail-out. Whatever we do, we don't want to give Bush's Sec of the Treasury the power of god to decide who gets the money and how much, without any oversight and without anyone checking his math. If (and that's a big if) a bail out is necessary, there is no need to rush into it before the details and the oversight mechanisms are ironed out. Don't let lame-duck Bush push this through like the "authorization to use force in Iraq" resolution. It is a trick, and their final "f**kyou" to the American people. The first way we can get it wrong is to pass it now and ask questions later.

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I HEARD ON THE NEWS THAT THE PHONES WERE OFF THE HOOKS
Posted by: cori on Sep 24, 2008 6:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People are calling in big numbers. I called all my senators and congressmen and the DNC and Chris Dodd. SO CALL, CALL CALL!!! 202 224 3121 AND TELL YOUR REP THAT YOU DON'T WANT BUSH SELLING OUR FUTURES DOWN THE RIVER!!!! AND THEY BETTER GET OFF THE BACKSIDES AND STOP THE GOP FROM STEALING THIS ELECTION. COME ON OUT THERE. THIS COUNTRY NEEDS YOU.

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It' time to pay!
Posted by: govindas on Sep 24, 2008 11:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After the profitering of USA on behalf of the third world,it's now time to pay for Uncle Sam:it's just karma play!

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its about time
Posted by: crow on Sep 26, 2008 7:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
well i am not going to say i told anyone so ... its good to see some people expressing .... paulson screwed the mortgage corps and now they want nearly a trillion? ugh... macain and NEIL BUSH were the masterminds of the savings and loan bailouts in the 80's.. i had a current then student loan and was defaulted when the loan was called in.. no recourse i was told.. we get to do this as reagan had signed a bill authorizing it.. thanks ron... see ya in the bread lines folks

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Leave a "Paper Trail" at the Polls
Posted by: Fetchcat on Sep 26, 2008 9:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For those of you worried about the neocons rigging the election (again) via computers, etc., I suggest that when you sign your name in the polling books, you place a small "O" next to it if you intend to vote for Obama. If this becomes a widespread practice, there will be a trail to follow in case of machine fraud. If a polling station says 1200 people voted for OBama, but the sign-in books shows 1500 little "O's" we'll know that those results were tampered with. It should only take a few hundred test locations to show if there is something underhanded going on -- and then it's time for a national uprising (or at least a national recount). I think this really could act as a gauge of neocon tampering . . . sometimes simple things work best.

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100,000 for 75 million
Posted by: psuds on Sep 26, 2008 2:12 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's the solution:

There are approx. 75 million households in the U. S.

Rather than hand $700 billion to the bankers who have just proven their incompetence up the amount to $750 billion and send a $100,000 check to every household in America.

I wish this was my idea but it was actually my neighbor's. I just felt it needed to be passed around

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» RE: 100,000 for 75 million Posted by: Firewired
sub-section eight (8)!!
Posted by: Firewired on Sep 27, 2008 1:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sub-section 8 of the proposed bailout is the scariest language I have ever seen. What it specifies is that the Treas. Sec. will be held above and beyond the Constitution itself!
HUH?
Suspend the US Constitution for one man? This is absurd, and should be considered cause for treason charges. NO SUCH AUTHORITY should EVER be granted in this country, for any reason. We have not/do not/will not recognize the powers of a "king!"
Apalling, scary, illegal, absurd, disgraceful! THOSE are the key words of the bail-out "message," and should be resisted!

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