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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

As Wall Street Collapses, Will Washington Get a Clue?

By Nomi Prins, AlterNet. Posted September 17, 2008.


The speculative nature of the financial industry is a threat to national economic security. It requires a serious exit strategy.
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As the Dow hemorrhages, Wall Street firms are betting on which one will bite the dust next, and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke probably wishes he could leave as the next administration sets up shop, no one is proposing the long-term solution to the banking crisis: regulating the industry.

The Fed was right to turn Lehman Brothers away from its window during those final moments of doom on Sunday night. As such, the resulting $613 billion Chapter 11 filing, the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history (WorldCom dropped to second with a mere $104 billion in assets) was secured.

It was wrong to back the $30 billion bailout of Bear Stearns in March, which facilitated JPM Chase's acquisition of Bear. It should not be the Fed's responsibility, or the government's, to back investment bank speculation. Instead, regulators should have been more vigilant as speculation outpaced available capital, and transparent quantification of risk went out the window.

However, it should be the government's job to stabilize the financial system; the question is how. Unfortunately, neither the Federal Reserve, nor the government, nor the presidential candidates have the slightest clue. Neither a blame game nor desperate piecemeal fixes will work. This is not about Republican or Democratic policies, but systemic bipartisan deregulation. Only a quick bout of sweeping and decisive regulation can fix what's broken.

In 1932, three years after the 1929 stock market crash, the banking system last stood at a brink of implosion. Franklin Delano Roosevelt zoomed past Herbert Hoover into the White House. The country was struggling through a Great Depression unleashed by the forces of unregulated economic greed. FDR stood up to the unrestrained power of Wall Street and contained it. The resultant New Deal included a stoplight at the heavy intersection of financial capital and unregulated greed, called the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933.

Decisively, the Glass-Steagall Act forced institutions within the banking community to pick a side. If you want to deal with the population at large, take their deposits, give them a safe place for their savings and make reasonable loans for which you are as responsible as the borrowers -- terrific. As a commercial bank, you will have the newly established Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) backing your depositors. We, the federal government, will regulate you.

If you want to raise capital through speculative investors at home or overseas -- fine. But as an investment bank, you don't get our backing and you don't get to mix it up with citizens' lives or use their capital to fund your trading activities.

That simple premise, the pristine logic of the Glass-Steagall Act, not only kept consumer and speculative capital from intertwining within the same institution; it simplified the ability to understand the activities of all financial organizations. Transparency was not perfect, but it was more easily accomplished.

Lehman Brothers got a taste of the intent of Glass-Steagall. Its demise is ugly, not just because of its 156-year history, the 25,000 employees who are suddenly without jobs, or the long list of institutions to which Lehman owed money that will be slugging it out in bankruptcy court.

It is ugly because it underscores the supreme gutlessness of the executive and congressional branches of government. Bernanke is desperately trying to figure out how to save the banking industry from itself. Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson can't wait until the election saves him from himself. And the presidential candidates are giving Wall Street, and each other, a barrage of verbal shellacking.

None of this changes the playing field.

The catalyst for this current crisis may be the housing market -- not because individual borrowers slightly overleveraged, but because the entire banking industry massively overleveraged. The larger culprit is the killing of Glass-Steagall, which paved the way for this recklessness.

Yet, rather than considering the massive risks of merging commercial and speculative banking interests, given the overwhelming evidence, federal officials actually pushed for Bank of America's $50 billion all-stock takeover of Merrill Lynch, rather than questioned it.

I worked on Wall Street, at Lehman and Bear and Goldman Sachs. Take my word for it: You cannot merge risk management systems more quickly than this economic crisis can continue to unfold. It is technologically impossible.

This knee-jerk move follows the same dangerous green-lighting of mega-mergers that began when Citigroup took over Salomon Brothers after Congress killed Glass-Steagall in November 1999, and continued with Chase taking over JPM and recently Bear Stearns.

The Fed wants to avoid another huge failure in Merrill Lynch by pushing it under the rug of Bank of America. That is bad policy. Bank of America cannot possibly have a clue about the extent of Merrill's potential losses. This commercial bank taking over a speculative giant is much more dangerous than Lehman Brothers tanking. The Fed was within all of its rights and sanity to say no to Lehman's plea for a bailout. But it won't be able to do the same thing with Bank of America, which, unlike Lehman or Bear, is responsible for the accounts of millions of customers -- real people with real money on the line.

The speculative nature of the industry, in which commercial and investment banks can borrow beyond their abilities to repay, is a threat to national economic security. It requires a serious exit strategy.

There is no easy answer, but there is only one solution -- and it lies polar opposite to the Bank of America-Merrill Lynch merger logic. The only real way to stabilize the financial industry is to take it apart, quantify and separate its risks, and begin again. We can do this. FDR did it. The market is larger now, and more global. That is not an excuse for inaction; it belies a screaming need for useful action and meaningful regulation. Period.

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See more stories tagged with: wall street, fed, bank of america, lehman brothers

Nomi Prins is a senior fellow at the public policy center Demos and author of Other People's Money and Jacked: How "Conservatives" Are Picking Your Pocket (Whether You Voted for Them or Not).

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Progressives Achilles Heel : Financial Ignorance
Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 17, 2008 12:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nomi Prins has written a well thought analysis of the problems we face and how we got here. Yesterdays articles were vague and ponderous. While economic philosophy, niche solutions and broad sweeps of financial history are fine much more focused attention must be paid to the current financial issues that face the country.

Unless and until Progressives become financially savvy we will be at a lethal disadvantage in the political arena. Gains in the Progressive agenda are totally dependent on the way we run the finance of the country. You cannot have "Medicare of Everybody" , Paid Childcare, Increased Funding for Education or Food Stamps without the funding.

Not only are Progressive goals getting harder to reach, on our current financial course there will be severe cut backs. It is past time for Progressives to understand the ins and outs of the fiscal and financial issues of our time.

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» Progressively stupid Posted by: Teller
» RE: Progressively stupid Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Progressively stupid Posted by: Quannah
» Agree Totally Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Agree Totally Posted by: Spot
RE: Why am I not sympathetic?...But...but some people had to cancel their 35K drapes
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale on Sep 17, 2008 5:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read an article a month or so ago in NYT real estate section. The housing market for the super-rich is also suffering.

They referred to a young couple who got laid off from Bear Stearns as an example. Apparently they had to cancel their order for $35,000 drapes, sell the country house in the Hamptons, and move into a smaller apartment in Manhattan.

Poor things.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» That was her point! Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: That was her point! Posted by: Karl.Ben
Boy, do I agree with that..... this article said.......
Posted by: Prophit on Sep 17, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.....It requires a serious exit strategy. I say it requires CRIMINAL PROSECUTION of those that committed crimes. And do not fool yourself they did. The fed and Sec of the Treasury need to be prosecuted as well.... since they contributed and aided and abetted those crimes that have resulted in this collapse.

How? The illegal OTC derivatives not regulated and outside the oversight of the SEC. and exclusively for banks only which limits the market and also the margins of only 10% down on which they purchased those derivatives. That was also not under SEC perview.

This is one giant and unbelievable scam perpetrated by those who were suppose to prevent such risky actions by those responsible for our deposits. Now the FICA is going broke, so no money to bail out the various banks. They are consolidating the banking industry, breaking the small community banks in favor of the big giant foreign controlled banks who get the taxpayer bailout.

FORGET IT.... LET THEM ALL GO DOWN AND PUT THEM ALL IN JAIL and that will stop this in the future if we even have a future. I want an independant prosecutor with supeona powers to be appointed and investigate this fiasco. Lets tell our congress people that is what we want.

This OTC derivatives was not under the legal derivatives market and thus should never have been allowed.

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You honestly believe the wall street gods are going to suffer?
Posted by: Farasien on Sep 17, 2008 8:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go read some history. The same bastards who screwed things up so badly FDR felt the need to (symbolicly) step in and unwind the last financial cluster fuck are STILL IN POWER. This time is no different, nor will the next time be.

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So, who's batting 100?
Posted by: CosmoViking on Sep 17, 2008 12:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can I just say that since Morgan Stanley appears to have pre-announced wonderous profits in the midst of a dramatic and probably engineered financial debacle, I feel that this is another indication that the Rockefeller-JP Morgan is above the system. The system that is supposed to generate legal currency in the United States but does so in a massively unconstitutional way. The bubble has never been more inflated, has it mr. Greenspan?

Students of the Federal Reserve System and/or the history of international banking will not be too surprised, but I can't remember the fix being this obvious since Mayer de Rothschild "bought" the Bank of England after the Napoleonic Wars?

So when will intrepid reporters attack this story, which IMHO lieas at the heart of the secret governenment and the crimes it commits = the money system.

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» RE: Indeed! Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: So, who's batting 100? Posted by: jeff303
Off Topic? AIG
Posted by: Rolomax on Sep 17, 2008 1:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AIG should not have gone bankrupt. This could signal a very VERY bad turn of events.

The US Gov't bailing out an insurer should not be allowed.

They could not have gone bankrupt because of payouts. It would have to be because of investment losses in the housing industry.

Just plain bad.

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» and....... Posted by: Marlena
» RE: and....... Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: and....... Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: and....... Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: and....... Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: and....... Posted by: Spot
» RE: and....... Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: and....... Posted by: babs
» RE: and....... Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Off Topic? AIG Posted by: hagwind
» On top of issues are we?????? Posted by: Karl.Ben
Can SRI be a solution?
Posted by: Cap'n Solar on Sep 17, 2008 2:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was as excellent article -- and it is now quite obvious that we have let greed get out of control. One method to consider to increase the transparency while cleaning up the entire industry is Socially Responsible Investing.

Socially responsible investing, also known as sustainable investing or ethical investing, describes an investment strategy which seeks to maximize both financial return and social good. Without regulatory reform it would not be enough - but I think diversifying to two bottom lines will eliminate pure non-productive speculation and the inherent risk that is causing the current problems with the entire financial system. As the funds invested in SRI continue to grow - this balancing force will become more important. Assets in socially screened portfolios climbed to $2.71 trillion in 2007- and although much of that is still invested in part of the problem - it is a nudge in the right direction.

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» Just to be accurate... Posted by: bornxeyed
Crappy Days are Here Again
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 17, 2008 2:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the beginning of something very, very bad. Anyone paying attention would have been able to see this coming for years now. It's further proof (as if further proof were needed) that putting people in charge of the government who don't believe in government is always a stupid idea.

Is this the catastrophic meltdown that will finally awaked the American people from their twent-eight year slumber? We'll know the answer to that question on Election Day.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
La Rant

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» You got some nerve Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Crappy Days are Here Again Posted by: badkitty
» Vote? For who and for what? Posted by: Cathyc
» I Agree. I'm not voting at all. Posted by: bottom-line
As long as Wall $treet keeps bribing both parties on Washington, NO.
Posted by: dmwsd92 on Sep 17, 2008 3:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Republicans always make sure Wall $treet gets it handouts. It is interesting to note how the GOP trolls on this site will go out of their way to blame only the Democrats when in fact the Republicans did most of the dirty work. Sure, there were Democrats who went along with them and they too deserve to be punished. I'll be betting that the same GOP trolls who make a big deal about helping others as somehow bad will say that Wall $treet is somehow "honest" and deserves all the taxpayer money it wants. Well? If we're in a free market, then not even Wall $treet deserves a bailout. Let the system collapse. Capitalism is finally crashing and proving to be far worse than socialism. I'd much rather have a basic safety net of a well paying job than be a day trading gambler on Wall $treet. I'm proud to be a working class liberal. Are you?

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Nomi Prins nailed it, and in only two pages
Posted by: hagwind on Sep 17, 2008 3:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It identifies the problem, then it points out that Wall Street has dragged us here before and that it wasn't Wall Street that got us out of the swamp. I hope this article circulates widely. (I'm going to do my bit to help it along!) Send it to the otherwise rational people you know who are even thinking of voting Republican in November.

Most of us understand, at least most of the time, that playing the slots, the wheels, and the lottery is no way to manage our money. When gambling, aka speculation, gets out of control, it's time for a 12-step program. We've got a financial system that rewards behavior that in school would get you sent to the principal's office and in ordinary life might land you in jail: manipulating people, companies, and whole countries as if they were little plastic toys. Lock these executives up in a casino where they can manipulate money all they want, but don't let them screw around with our lives.

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Progressively stupid
Posted by: Teller on Sep 17, 2008 3:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prins points her finger at the elimination of Glass-Steagall. She's written a book about "conservatives picking your pocket." But Glass-Steagall was gotten rid of by Bill Clinton and Robert Rubin, while Obama's biggest contributor is Wall Street, particularly Goldman Sachs (Rubin, Paulson and so on). Same dog, fools, just got two heads, got to feed it twice.

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» Yes your boy Clinton messed up! Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Clinton isn't my boy Posted by: GuitarBill
» Ooops, I messed up...... Posted by: Prophit
» You children who rate comments Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Ooops, I messed up...... Posted by: GuitarBill
» NEWS Flash! Posted by: Karl.Ben
» Sounds like projection to me. Posted by: GuitarBill
» Royalty Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: Progressively stupid Posted by: babs
» democrat or republican Posted by: rafaeltoral
» RE: democrat or republican Posted by: Alohajnc
» Sorry, but you're wrong. Posted by: GuitarBill
Things Look Bad For America. Wake up!
Posted by: ZPaul on Sep 17, 2008 4:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are bad. There is no easy way out of this. But America, wake up long enough to at least realize that this is madness and that McCain-Palin, if you allow them to win, will only continue and intensify that madness and hasten the demise of this country and everything it once stood for.

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Two Alternatives
Posted by: Last Chance on Sep 17, 2008 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Capitalism, that desperately ill patient, cannot be expected to heal itself, especially since it is addicted to the market speculation that made it sick in the first place. Strict regulation, honesty and accountability are required, otherwise it will die. Perhaps another New Deal might save it, and perhaps our next Roosevelt will be Barack Obama.

But if all else fails, the people can redistribute the land among themselves to grow their own community gardens and form a continental network of permaculture villages that freely trade with each other and carefully surround themselves with miles of healthy wilderness. Better yet, smart people should be doing that NOW.

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» "We the people...." Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Two Alternatives Posted by: bottom-line
My Tiny Violin Is Playing Schadenfreude
Posted by: left_libertarian on Sep 17, 2008 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So what is Obama's position on these bailouts?

Is he for or against.

Can anyone find a straight answer?

Yes or no?

I couldn't find one.

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» RE: Been there, done that! Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Simple ? Obama For or Against Bailouts Posted by: left_libertarian
Too big to fail
Posted by: Sushi on Sep 17, 2008 4:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What the hell? "Too big to fail"? In a land of starving people...feed the fat guy all the food! He's too used to gorging to stop eating now!

Sushi
"I am on two diets. The first one wasn't giving me enough food."

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Asleep at the wheel
Posted by: Karl.Ben on Sep 17, 2008 4:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article - as an ex CPA with quite a bit of bank audit experience, I wonder what the state and public auditors were doing while the banks engineering their demise!

Not a fan of big government in most cases, some things just need to be regulated..financial institutions are one of them!

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» RE: Big government... Posted by: Cybershaman
Impossibly Clueless
Posted by: Nicnic on Sep 17, 2008 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The collapse of AIG is their biggest coup since 9/11. It was engineered by the consortium of multi-national banks that own the FED. They are orchestrating your ruination and betting on the fact that you're more concerned with the skin of your new cell phone. They held a typical dog and pony show in a media attempt to rescue it. Now the bill comes to us while the FED buys AIG with phony paper money and they walk away with a vast portfolio of real estate holdings, business and commercial interests and untold unaccounted-for hidden wealth and a market control mechanism that would astound any industrialist. As with 9/11, there is no investigation into how this happened and no one bears accountability. Is any of this sounding familiar?

Meanwhile, my best friend who has his masters degree from a highly regarded school of international business management not only argues that the FED is a government institution working on our behalf but that 9/11 was as they say it was. The odds against us are staggeringly stacked. They have poisoned our land, our food and our minds.

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» RE: Impossibly Clueless Posted by: Cybershaman
» My iPhone Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Impossibly Clueless Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Impossibly Clueless Posted by: babs
U.S. is slated for TOTAL destruction -- SOON.
Posted by: bottom-line on Sep 17, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is part of the plan for the New World Order -- take America down, down, down. Foreign countries are buying up the roads, the land, the utilities, everything -- and buying it CHEAP. The only jobs that are left are those with Homeland Security. With less and less money, more and more police are hired, more and more mlitary, and of course the concentration camps are all built and ready for you and me. Meantime, we are being sprayed like bugs with chemtrails of barium salts, etc., all over the country, weakening us and getting us ready for the big kill when the eugenicist elites decide add some really wicked viruses and pathogens they have developed in their labs to take care of the human "overpopulation" so called. Meantime, the the chemtrail spew from their planes are busy crossing the skies all over the country laying down their overcast of barium salts. The controlled media says nothing, although isolated stories have appeared in the controlled media about this, including the Discovery Channel -- with lame excuses presented of military weather control and protection from global warming to appease the aware and alarmed.

Watch Alex Jones'Endgame -- a documentary about how the powers that be are eugenicists, that Margaret Sanger was herself a eugenicist wanting to get rid of the "unfit," and that the goal of the elites is to eliminate 6 BILLION people NOW and leave only 500 million to serve as their slaves and servants in the Hellish "utopia" they have conceived. This is being done under the guise of the environmental propaganda promoted by the large environmental organizations funded by, believe it, the oil companies themselves.

The U.S. is floating away in oil, as is the rest of the world, but the oil companies squelch every find, buy it up, or bribe or threaten away any attempt to develop by wildcatters or heads of nations. This way they maintain control over a resource that should be cheap as water.

The debt is beyond comprehension; trillions are being looted from the treasury, ($3 trillion announced missing from the Pentagon the day before 9/11, and many more trillions since). In addition, the government is deliberately provoking WWIII with the sneak attack by U.S./Israeli provoked and led forces in Georgia upon Russian citizens in Ossetia.

All we have to look forward to here in our Marked for Death country is: concentration camps, famine, pestilance, death and/or slavery.

If enough people wake up -- that's the only hope to get the Luciferian elites to back off. But most people think the government is God, are indoctrinated to think the government is our best friend, here to help, rather than here to enslave and kill, and are happy to hand their lives over to government stooges with badges dangling off their necks. Indeed, the government is their god, just like in Bible days with the worship of the emperors and pharaohs.

9/11 was in fact an inside job. Our own government blew up the towers and drove the planes into the buildings, murdered 3,000 of its own citizens in order to rev up support for world war and an excuse to impose a total police state.

And people think Barack Obama is going to save the country -- another murdering politician (check out the murders of two homosexuals in his church recently who knew too much about Obama). Both parties are owned by the same people, and all candidates are cardboard, put up for our amusement and distraction to make us think we have some control over things. We don't.

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» Better Choice? Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Whatever May Happen, Posted by: Last Chance
» Bad link, bad argument -- Posted by: Last Chance
» Overpopulation -- the Big Lie Posted by: bottom-line
» Look in the mirror! Posted by: Last Chance
» The Cancer Business Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: The Cancer Business -Amen, sister. n/t Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» chemtrails Posted by: Dboy
» RE: chemtrails Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» RE: chemtrails Posted by: bottom-line
» You gotta be kidding about Ossetia Posted by: bottom-line
» Actually it was three members Posted by: bottom-line
Can you see it now.......
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 17, 2008 5:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both parties are responsible for this debacle! Both parties bought into the "free market" deregulation strategy! As CEO greed increased, payments to members of Congress increased! As these CEO's are abdicating their culpability in the collapse of these corporations! Now it is tax payer money that must bail out these people! Should the taxpayers forget how these corporations lobbied for the bankruptcy bill that hurt consumers?! Or should we forget the energy bill that is robbing us blind even as subsidized BIG OIL is posting record profits?! Should we forget that the mortgage crises that we are now in was part of the ponzi scheme that these scalawags cooked up?! Should we forget all of the people that lost their jobs because of outsourcing, or downsizing?!

No, we now need to demand from those people that are supposed to represent us (Congress), that they re-regulate these corporations! Ensure that the leash is tight, because if these clowns get solvent, and there are still no regulations in place we will find ourselves at their mercy again!

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» RE: Whose Neutron Bomb? Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» RE: Whose Neutron Bomb? Posted by: bottom-line
» RE: Whose Neutron Bomb? Posted by: EncinoM
Wall Street Socialism
Posted by: Krotos on Sep 17, 2008 5:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Federal Reserve's $85 billion bailout of AIG should put to rest any lingering post-Katrina doubts about the intrinsic competence or responsiveness of the federal government.

The government works incredibly well when the interests of the people who own it are at stake.

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Same Old Sh-t from the Same Old Sh-t Bags!
Posted by: Ottomatic on Sep 17, 2008 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pull another Robot out of the Closet!
They're laughing all the way to The Bank
and you are in the Tank.
Dick is shredding as we speak.
The vale/screen in front of The Black House is to block you from seeing what they are taking out. It is an empty shell. Nothing is left.
When they say all for me and none for you!
The Corpirates really mean it.
The Invasion of The Corpirate Body Snatchers continues.
Americans are asleep at the wheel.
Three jobs and in debt.
Uniquely American!
More Mickey Dee's and American Dildo please!
So much for The Greatest Country.
Now if you said, "The Biggest A-sholes in the World".
You would be closer to the truth.
Pass the Torch and go
Twirl a Baton!

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Nought wrong with speculative markets...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Sep 17, 2008 5:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...as long as investors aren't lied to, and as long as they absorb the risk along with reaping the benefit of investment.

These government-private conspiracies such as "Fannie" and "Freddie", as well as these orchestrated buyouts simply aren't fair to American taxpayers. You're having working, saving Americans subsidizing stupid, greedy decisions by folks who wanted more house than they could afford, subsidizing stupid, greedy decisions by stupid, greedy bankers who looked the other way when a single parent of 4 told them he or she was good for the mortgage on four houses, and stupid, greedy investors who didn't do diligent research before ploughing their firms' money into the future of these stupid, greedy "deals".

Those who participated were stupid and greedy and should lose. If you borrowed more than you could pay, you deserve a "time out" in an apartment just like folks who are actually saving for a house they can afford. If you drove your bank into bankruptcy with your bad decisions, time to try again somewhere else, buddy. If you invested your firms money into such shaky adventures, you deserve the fate you've brought down on your firm, and those that invested in your stupidity will need to find somewhere else to have their personal investments and private retirement savings managed, at whatever its going to cost them.

There's nothing at all wrong with betting on the financial futures and enjoying the fruits of good, thoughtful, well-researched "bets". But you SHOULD NOT have access to taxpayers' pocket books when your bets turn bad!

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» RE: Bottom, you are far too hard-hearted Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» I Care about the Homeless but .... Posted by: bottom-line
» Just...no...more...bailouts! Posted by: ABetterFuture
You Know You. . .
Posted by: The Old Hippie on Sep 17, 2008 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Thank you, but... Posted by: The Old Hippie
The Result of 28 Years of Big Corporate Government
Posted by: FoonTheElder on Sep 17, 2008 6:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have spent 28 years with the government being run by big corporate America and their lobbyists. This economic disaster is the ultimate result, an economy where wages have gone nowhere and crooks stuff millions in their pockets. Guess who is going to pay for this?

After all the most important issues are abortion, gay marriage, flag burning, creationism in schools and sexual dalliances. The ability to get a decent job and live a decent life is unimportant.

Keep voting for the corporate candidates who are controlled by lobbyists. They will continue the corporate welfare system that we have in place today. There is always money for military corporate welfare and to bail out the favored big businesses and top 2%. But there is nothing but crumbs for anyone else.

The current economic system of the U.S. is socialism for big corporations and the top 2% and cold hard capitalism for everyone else.

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We needed to shore up AIG to keep foreign investors happy
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale on Sep 17, 2008 6:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Foreign investors are losing confidence and will stop buying US bonds unless we do something to mitigate the losses from the crash on Wall St. If they stop buying, this country will go bankrupt and will teeter on the edge of becoming a failed state. Their purchase of Treasury bonds is all that is keeping us functioning.

As I said above, something is fishy about the overflight and media restrictions being placed upon us on the subject of Galveston's damage from Hurricane Ike.

Galveston Officials Order City Employees Not to Talk to the Press

Flight Restrictions Continue Over Galveston

AIG Rescue to Boost European Stock Market

Are the motives behind this to keep our direct foreign investors in the dark about the extent of the damage? Or us? When the Iraq and Afghanistan wars cost billions a month, how can we afford to continue absorbing the losses on Wall St as well as from natural disasters?
At some point, the system will collapse.

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Nope
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 17, 2008 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Probably not, at least as long as Dictator Bush is in office. All he cares about is Global Domination. If McBush gets elected in November, we will really be in trouble. OMG can you imagine? Scary indeed.

Jiffers
Ultimate Anonymity

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» You can't run your car on wind Posted by: bottom-line
» It Does Not a Luciferian Make? Posted by: bottom-line
Stop the bleeding now
Posted by: solrev on Sep 17, 2008 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fed and treasury can only keep putting fingers in holes in the dike to prevent a complete world economic collapse, which would lead to one thing, more wars. We need a government that works, however there is zero chance of that until after the election.

“No one is proposing the long-term solution to the banking crisis: regulating the industry”

Even the supply sidewinders are saying, “we do not need more regulation we need smart regulation – Kudlow”. There is universal agreement that the deregulation philosophy has collapsed; free market capitalism owes no allegiance to the country that is why they call themselves globalists. The problem is going to be what smart regulation do we need, enter the lobbyists. Our politicized government will be unable to come up with the smart regulation we need. McCain has been forced to make a complete flip in his long-term support of deregulation. Obama needs in addition to his speeches make some ads that have McCain in his own words looking like a failure on economic policy and flood the country. The Obama campaign is to stupid to figure out that a high percentage of American voters do not read news papers or watch TV news, their only contact to the election process is through incidental contact to ads, and the local coffee shop. They are to stupid to know that in our bars there are two things one never talks about and that is religion and politics. They simply do not know how to speak to or reach half the people in this country. While your at it, make some ads comparing Bush saying lower taxes and grow the economy in leaps and bounds in 2001 with McCain and the talking heads saying exactly the same thing in 2008. Then say if you want lies lies and more of the same; change the channel and vote for McCain. Why should we waste our time voting for you when you do not speak to us? People who join your grass roots program our political people some of us are not, but we still vote for whom ever Rove wants us to, because that is all we hear.

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» and Stop the bReeding now Posted by: veggiegrrrl
Mr.
Posted by: ReformerRay on Sep 17, 2008 6:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last night, on the Larry King show, Suzie Orman says what were they thinking when the made loans to people who could not pay them back? And when they bundled these loans and sold them at face value?

Suzie, they were thinking they could get away with it. Why? Because house prices always go up (so they thought). So long as house prices were increasing, a person could take out a mortgage today and sell the house tomorrow before their inability to pay the mortgage was revealed. Millions of people made money by gambling on rising house prices. As the number of speculators participating in the game increased, a point was reached where prices became so high that speculators were the main buyers and the system crashed.

The belief that prices can only go in one direction plus the desire to join the gambling led to the debacle.

Could this have been prevented? Sure, if mortgages could be sold only to owner occupiers. But who wanted to take away the punch bowl? No one.

My point. Don't look for someone else to blame. We are all responsible for the kind of laws that exist in the land. Lack of laws are our responsibility also. Laws that restrict gambling to "non-essential" parts of the U.S. economy are required, but we did not know that until this crisis hit us in the head. And it is not obvious how gambling can be restricted, except to specify locations and kinds of gamble that is legal, such as casinos, private parties with no more than 12 participants, state run lotteries, bingo games run by churches and non-profits organiations - and what else? How can we prevent gambling on the stock market and home ownership?

Though the connection may not be obvious, enforcement of contracts in the courts, created to bring stability to business dealing, played a part in encouraging bigger and bigger bets.

Private sector dealings are heavily entwined with the public interest and the courts were established, in part, to make private sector dealings more reliable as a way of protecting the entire system from collapse. In this instance, belief that contracts are 100% reliable played a part in creating a false sense of security.

Now that public entities are taking responsibility for unwinding a series of contracts that cannot be fulfilled, how do they do this unwinding fairly? Do they select some firms that are too big to fail, such as AIG, and provide them with money to fulfill the contracts they have written? What about other contracts taken by smaller companies? Will these companies be allowed to fail? If so will their contracts be unfulfilled? Is it fair to make some participants whole and others lose all their investment?

The only fair way to unwind this system is to admit that it should have never happened and unwind all the contracts. That includes going back in time and voiding all gains made by employees of all the companies and all individuals who profited from the creation of contracts that cannot now be honored. A massive and perhaps impossible task. To unwind all the contracts that were not fulfilled because of bankruptcy would require a massive increase in the work force devoted to legal matters. This could only be done in a country that has an excess of lawyers - namely, the U.S. A.. However, new laws would be required, enabling the courts to recover from individuals and firms profits, salaries, pensions and other payments made in years past.

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» RE: Mr. Posted by: JSquercia
Socialism for everyone
Posted by: alturn on Sep 17, 2008 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wall Street held up businesses under the threat of hostile takeovers for decades, forcing the restructuring of sound long term corporations (who actually showed some concern for their employees) into flim-flam, send-jobs-overseas artists on Wall Street's short leash of quarterly earnings. The consequences of that same greedy short term focus on wealth creation is now hitting the masters of that evil craft - and those who have been controlling our nation's destiny.

The people, who have been forced through Wall Street created policy to have their retirements invested in Wall Street, now have to pay the bailout bill. Since this is a double threat to Joe and Sue Middle American's security, wonder how much more implosion is needed to unfold before they are out on the street demanding true reform. Reform, which due to the severe nature of the meltdown, will need to be just, dramatic and focused on ensuring the basic needs of people everywhere are met, not those of a rich priveleged class.

Elements of socialism need to complement capitalism and need to be for everyone, not just, as these socialistic bailouts show, for the current captains of our modern day Titantic.

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Money
Posted by: modeler on Sep 17, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bailouts with paper are not a solution. The Fed can print more and more it still is not worth a S**t. With the most "intelligent" president in history the debt load per man,woman and child has risen to astronomical heights. Any person or family or even a business in a like situation is down the drain. Lets be open and frank, the Unsecured System Arrangement (USA) is broke, Period.

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It's Been Specifically Designed To Collapse - This Is NOT An Accident
Posted by: opmoc on Sep 17, 2008 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have never been a gambler - it is against my most basic philosophy

However as a result of my employment - I was offerred an employee share save scheme. This meant I could save money from my salary every month for a period of 5 years. The money would go into a savings account and accumulate interest. After 5 years - I would be given the option of buying shares in my company at a 20% discount to the share price of what it was when the scheme started.

This seemed an incredibly good scheme - because it positively motivated all employees in the company to work their butts off to make the company a success.

So after 5 years I ended up with some shares (about 15 years ago)

I thought well what do I do now?

If I keep the shares I effectively become a gambler.

So I sold them all and bought a house that I couldn't possibly have afforded but for this scheme

And I worked incredibly hard to pay the mortgage - and started another employee share save scheme

So 10 years ago - I was faced with the same situation.

Do I just sell my shares - or keep them and become a gambler?

And so I became an "investor"(gambler) on the stock market - an incredibly naive - but also "conservative" gambler.

I just bought shares in companies I thought were incredibly undervalued with good products in development that had a good chance of being successful if they sold well.

Although I was "investing/gambling" - it was money I could afford to lose. I would just keep the shares for 5 years if necessary or for as long as it took. If the company went bust I would lose it all. If it was successful then eventually the share price would go up to reflect the value of the company - and I might even eventually get paid a dividend.

I attended the annual general meetings and other meetings to meet the company directors and some of the employees - just to get an idea of whether my money was wisely invested - and whether or not I could trust the people who I had trusted my money with to do something useful with it.

I got to meet some London City financial analysts as a result of attending such meetings - I also knew one socially - his kids went to the same school as mine.

I gradually became aware that some of these "experts" were in fact nothing more than "Barrow Boys" and did what in my view was the complete lunacy of basing their buying and selling decisions not on real research of companies and their products and markets - but on stuff like studying Share Charts.

In fact many of these "Experts" knew absolutely NOTHING about what they were GAMBLING On.

The entire system was then changed by the Government and Authorities to positively discourage holding actual shares - but instead GAMBLE on predicting share and other price movements. If you held actual shares rather than GAMBLING Positions - that you were encouraged to heavily Leverage - then you paid potentially far more tax and other costs.

The Authorities designed the CASINO to encourage GAMBLING rather than INVESTMENT - and attempted to Suck In All The Investors and convert them to GAMBLERS - such that INVESTMENT became an absolute Joke to be laughed at.

Well FUCK YOU

I am well aware of some of the Crap that goes on and am well aware of many Private Gamblers who have lost absolutely Fucking Everything as a Result of Being Sucked in

But don't pretend this all happenned by accident

It was deliberately planned by those in Control of Government

These Guys are Building Their Piles Higher and Higher

Some of the shit that has been going on is totally fucking disgusting

What the Fuck Are They Going To Do With It All?

KILL US ALL?

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OH WASHINGTON HAS A CLUE ALL RIGHT!!!
Posted by: alicelillie on Sep 17, 2008 8:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They know exactly what they're doing.

I think if I can figure this out, they can.

They are evil-doers who want all the wealth in establishment hands, and the rest of us will suffer from privation and fear, and turn to Big Brother (the same folks who caused this in the first place!) for help, and we will all be under their iron heel.

No matter *who's* elected in November it will be the same thing!!!

Go to http://www.mises.org, and read _What Has Government Done to our Money_ or _The Case Against the Fed_ by Murray Rothbard. The former is available free online.

These are meant for the novice, and, novice or otherwise, you'll learn a great deal.

And, they're short! If you never read another word I write, read this: Read these works!!!

You can see my blog, reviewing some more works by Rothbard at http://www.alicelillieandher.blogspot.com

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Time to beat the dead horse again...
Posted by: Farasien on Sep 17, 2008 8:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I agree with the author's call for meaningful regulation of the financial industry, I do have to ask... who is gonna make 'em? We must not forget that the financial industry (how's that for a contradiction in terms?) OWNS the government. Bankers own the congress and house of reps- they paid for their campaigns, promise them 6 or more figure do-nothing non-jobs if and when they leave office and routinely bribe them so publicly that it can't be hidden- through lobbying. The reason the Glass-Stegall act was repealed is because the assholes who run the banks TOLD congress and the president to do so, and like the lap dogs they are, they capitulated. Alterneters love to talk about voters voting against their economic (and all other) interests as a result of being stupidly duped by the puppets in DC, and we think that the CEOs and financiers of the companies who own us all to be equally stupid. They aren't. They are evil, twisted and rotted out by greed and power lust, but not stupid. As such, they will never allow someone to come into the hallowed halls of the Camen islands bank that DC has become without being owned, and never ever allow anyone to bring back the bad old days (in their opinions) of a regulated economy. The people who are in control of all of this have already pulled their cash out of their failed ponzi schemes-and did so years ago. The elites are already ready for the economic nuclear fallout they so gleefully created. For now, they sit the game out, let everyone else lose their shirt (and their rights, lives and anything else they can screw out of them), and when the cycle begins again- and its already starting to take shape if you pay attention- they simply jump back in with their heavily protected wealth and power, sell you the old snake oil in a glossy package, and start the whole money pump all over again.

Washington will NEVER regulate the markets. The work FDR did didn't go nearly far enough- I believe intentionally, to give his owners a crack to get back in once public resentment died down just a little. You never bite the hand that feeds you, and the CEO scum would rather die- and kill everyone else before them- to block that from happening. The only way to return to sanity is to wipe out the system as it currently exists and remake the thing completely from scratch. Anything short of that will see this whole nightmare repeat itself in a few decades as history has repeatedly shown all but the most devoutly stupid and ignorant. Until we get the guts to do what is necessarry, we'll get the same old shit in a new package. Until we wake up to the realities of the system as it exists, what we see going on will be the future, now and forever.

...Not that I believe for a moment that anyone is paying attention anymore.

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This is a 'planned' failure
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Sep 17, 2008 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is how they do it. Borrow so much money from Japan and china so no matter what the stocks do our markets will lose. We owe 2 trillion dollars to both countries. We've been bailing out insurance companies ever since 9/11. Why? These folks are theives..period.
I ask this... What good is insurance if the company you send your money too is really insolvent? Here's an easy test. If the company that holds your policy has more than two stories to it's offices....they'll probably rip you off on a claim.
Insurance is 'organized crime' to the enth degree. They take money for nothing and have made sure most everything needs a policy.
Laws are written to ensure you carry some kind of insurance,you pay for years and then when we get hit with a Katrina sized policy mess,they find a million ways not to pay you.
The insurance industry needs to go the way of the Do Do Bird. They have a strangle hold on all americans and,like the Bush Administration,
is a cancer we can all live much better without. They are a 'protection racket' and anyone who's ever been stung by one knows they never pay back when the protection fails,they just charge you more for less. It's time to 86
this truly bad form of business for American life.

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Would have collapsed, anyway
Posted by: billwald on Sep 17, 2008 9:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since WW2 we have been living in freak economic conditions. The US was the only large country to come out of the Big War with an intact population and industrial base. Thanks to the Marshall Plan we didn't have the normal post war stagflation when the troops came home. Thanks to the G.I. Bill we had a generation of college graduates back when college meant something. Thanks to freeway building we had a building boom and a Detroit auto boom.

The effect of the war has worn away and the freak large middle class will disappear. We are reverting to the historical norm of 80% working poor, 15% middle class and the rest, stinking rich.

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behind the curtain
Posted by: siamdave on Sep 17, 2008 9:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
- it's not so much a matter of Washington getting a clue - they know exactly what they're doing, which is maxing the stealing from the people - what matters is We the People getting a clue - a good start is here - BANKETEERING http://www.rudemacedon.ca/lgi/banketeering.html

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And, just imagine..............
Posted by: ava1984 on Sep 17, 2008 10:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that W. was successful in giving our Social Security funds to these Wall Street thieves! Remember?!
Think back on all the Greedy Old Party has done to our country on every level! BASTARDS!

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This thing has been engineered - ushering in the Neo-Feudal State
Posted by: 6399 on Sep 17, 2008 10:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The global elite are making their move. They aren't getting wiped out by these tidal waves - WE ARE! The treasury has no problem taking $5.5 trillion of debt onto the books because they have absolutely no fucking intention of repaying anyone.

You'll notice that financial institutions are being bailed out but you are still held to the same rigid terms of your debt contracts. In some cases, you will be jailed for indebtedness and delinquency.

Say hello to the neo-feudal state, folks. The hyperwealthy are preparing to walk away from all this with their billioins intact. They own land, water, oil and metals. You own a Hummer and a house - neither of which you can afford.

Has anyone stopped to consider where this bailout money is coming from? Just this year (and it's not over yet) we have bailed out to the tune of $1 trillion. Does anyone wonder where we got $1 trillion when we already have $10 trillion in debt and a $10 billion a month war habit to feed?

This whole thing is smoke and mirrors, 1s & 0s. With a global derivatives market valued at just over the notional figure of $500 trillion, it is inconceivable that such wildly enormous amounts of money truly exist. The Chinese are actually in a death spiral themselves, so how much longer will they continue to buy into US treasuries that are increasingly worthless. To be succinct - war are going bankrupt. Fitting for the country that never knew how to save and loved to consume. It's 'buy now, pay later', or in this case, 'bailout now, deal with the social chaos later'. God help us.

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Keep in mind the failure of the press
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Sep 17, 2008 10:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To report on important issues regarding the financial markets. Reporters and their editors are simpletons. They want the election and stories about the financial markets to be shallow and simple. I can name at least 20 important stories regarding financial issues that were never reported on, except on the internet. We'll pay big time for that lack of oversight!

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$85B loan to AIG, up to $163B bailout to nuclear industry NEXT WEEK!
Posted by: PaulK on Sep 17, 2008 10:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's right! In the mainstream media, the Gang of 10 (actually, now it's the Gang of 20) energy bill is all about offshore oil drilling. And, to be sure, there's lots of that in the bill, which is expected to come up in the Senate late next week. But the bill would also be the biggest giveaway to the nuclear power industry ever -- up to 200% of the monster AIG bailout.

The loan guarantees cover 100% of the debt for as much as 80% of the construction cost.

The nuclear industry is proposing 34 new reactors. Current estimates per reactor (without cost overruns) range from $6.2 billion to $12 billion per reactor. Unlimited loan guarantees that cover 80% of the 34 projects would guarantee $168.6 billion to $326.4 billion. The nuclear industry expects to pay $100 million in fees. Assuming these reactors have the 50% default rate as projected by the Congressional Budget Office, the taxpayer cost would be $84.2 billion to $163.1 billion.

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Enron & Lehman Brothers
Posted by: ProudAmericanSpeaks on Sep 17, 2008 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me get this straight... Enron AND Lehman Brothers happened on the Republican watch and these people want to run American again for the next 4 years. My God, when will people learn!

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» Wrong again, edgar1 Posted by: PaulC
» RE: Wrong again, paul C Posted by: edgar1
bring up the R word....
Posted by: zooeyhall on Sep 17, 2008 10:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and watch the Chamber of Commerce types go utterly SPASTIC!!!

"What?!?! You don't mean REGULATION!!??!!"

(choke) (gasp!) [clutches chest and falls to the ground in convulsive fit]

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Stop the screaming. It's affecting my concentration
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 17, 2008 11:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I work on the third floor of a San Diego high rise that has a Bear Stearns office on the top floor.

The screams of former Stearns employess falling past my window is driving me crazy.

One more thing. Someone please tell me. Doesn't Congress have a say-so about loaning OUR money to overextended greedy investment firms? Or is it strictly Bush's call? What gives here?

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Well at Least in London a Very High Percentage of These Megalomaniac Gamblers Are On Cocaine
Posted by: opmoc on Sep 17, 2008 11:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And I have seen Cocaine completely destroy the lives of many of my friends.

Its extremely difficult to get off it.

Its not the fucking money they are on - it is the buzz of Cocaine

And it is so freely available - that like the British fucked over the Chinese with the Opium trade - some one is fucking over the City of London on Cocaine

I don't know about Wall Street

Fuck Knows what they are on

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And At The TOTE Tonight at Lehmans Brothers This 35 Year Old Guy Is Screaming I've Won - I've Got IT
Posted by: opmoc on Sep 17, 2008 12:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The BIGGEST NUMBER

His colleagues are saying

Well Done Mate

Sure You've Got The BIGGEST NUMBER

But It Is

NEGATIVE

And he says - yeh - but did I do well - I beat you lot - the whole fucking lot of you

And they say

Yes - you DID

We have lost all our jobs

Oh and its a bit more worse than that

In fact a lot more worse than that

But have a line anyway

Well Played

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X-POLYGAMIST WIFE in ARIZONA
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Sep 17, 2008 12:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The White Patriarchy wont be happy until America is barefoot and pregnant.

BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM

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Yes We'd All Like Some More Of Your Dribble Down Economics
Posted by: opmoc on Sep 17, 2008 1:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just Like Jesus Christ and His what was it 5 loaves and fishes feeding thousands

All we want is a fair share of David Beckhams cum - after it has dribbled out from wherever

This is Milton Friedman economics

Like Horses and Stallions and their sperm and racehorses

Sure

We Just want to feed our kids

And are not in the market of trading David Beckhams sperm

Of course Americans won't understand this and think the World runs on Cheney's Dick

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McCain doesn't have a clue.
Posted by: mjinterest on Sep 17, 2008 1:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not if McCain wins. McCain doesn't have a clue. For example, polygamy thrives in Colorado City, Arizona (McCain's home state) where thousands of American families (10,000 people) are systematically stripped of their democratic rights and women & children are abused. John McCain hasn't lifted a finger to stop it. What qualifies McCain to be president when he can't even clean up the Taliban in his own backyard? Check out the recent alarming documentary, BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM

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This Time, the speculators win....BIG!!!
Posted by: foius on Sep 17, 2008 1:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nomi Prins gets it right. But will congress do the right thing and regulate, dismantle, and ultimately participate as a player in the financial markets as it has historically done with FannieMae, Freddie Mac, and the FED? I don't think so. Wall Streets mavens have ruled their nest for so long that they are thoroughly, and permanently entrenched in the financial markets. Their influence is mind-boggling, and their ability to confuse, eradicate, and obscure the fundamental issues which have caused this market calamity is infinite. At the present, there will not be a comprehensive review of the records of the financial market giants. Who could we trust to give us the actual facts? We will continue to experience massive asset write-downs, and AIG's bailout is just the beginning!!! If America expects to compete globally with other nationalized markets, then we will have to begin to nationalize some of our major players or suffer the consequences of the failure to actively participate in our financial future by upping the ante, so to speak.

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Can Anyone Save this Economy?
Posted by: macdon1 on Sep 17, 2008 2:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain supports complete deregulation. He thinks it will stimulate the economy, even though deregulation has brought us Enron,runaway speculation and near collapse of the economy. Conservatives want to make government so small they can drown it in a bath tub but who will keep the foxes out of the hen house after they drown the government? Obama is a brilliant guy but if elected can he and will he go for the strict regulation needed to bring speculo-mania under control? Could he even get a regulatory package passed in Congress? The American economy seems to be on automatic pilot to self destruct with very little will on the part of our leaders to put on the brakes. I'm not a professional economist but my friends and I have seen this coming for a very long time. Some of us were fortunate enough to get a homestead and get off the grid in preparation for the chaos that is sure to accompany economic collapse. Most of us haven't had the means to prepare and it will be hell. The uber-rich will provide themselves with a golden parachute as usual. As for the rest of us...welcome to "Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome."

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» RE: Can Anyone Save this Economy? Posted by: Last Chance
We are experiencing economic collapse ( money is a failed system )
Posted by: metamind on Sep 17, 2008 2:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's what I propose:

I advocate that we have an Article V convention so we can discuss a solution to our fiscal problem.

That would include the national debt and the dysfunctional money system.

I adovcate seven types of money from the government ( not the federal reserve ) which would be for basic human needs: food, shelter, clothing, health care, transportation, education and communication.

These forms of money would be entirely electronic and operate like "food stamps" do now. (One card for all of them)

Whatever can be provided should be provided.
Every year we should seek to provide more "credits" in each of these seven areas.

We should structure our economy so that human needs come first rather than greed. After everyone has what they need people may play their greed games. ( with another form of money )

I advocate that all debts be forgiven when we go to the new system. I advocate changes so that the new money is democratized; let the people have the authority, via an Internet voting system, to propose spending priorities and veto Congressional appropriations.

Three important points to consider when designing an alternative to money:

1. You don't need taxes in order to have money.
2. Money can be credit instead of debt.
3. Money does not need to be general purpose; it can be EITHER general purpose or specific purpose money. ( i.e. You can't use food stamps to buy stocks and bonds )

Check out Robert Heinlein's book
"For us, the living" and "Social Credit theory."



Blessings!

Steve Moyer

P.S. You might want to peruse some of the Alternative Money Systems on the web.

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Ah, yes. The worn-out call for the regoolaters.(sic)
Posted by: jomama on Sep 17, 2008 2:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then who will regoolate the regoolaters?

It's too late if it ever wasn't.

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glass-steagall
Posted by: samoffat on Sep 17, 2008 2:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who, among current members of the House and Senate, voted to get rid of Glass-Steagall?

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» RE: glass-steagall Posted by: EncinoM
smoke and mirrors?
Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Sep 17, 2008 2:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is this whole "collapse" just another manipulation of "the people" - to usher in a new round of buy-outs and take overs that really only serve to consolidate power?

i've thought for several years now that the u.s. was on its way to another 1932-style depression...but now that i'm watching the collapse i wonder if this is really another fear tactic meant to scare "us" into ceding more power to fewer entities (government, individuals and corporations)...

i'm certainly not saying the people aren't hurting, self included...but when i see b of a buy out merrill lynch i see b of a getting bigger and more powerful...and it fits the decades long history of merger, acquisition, hostile take over and other means of consolidation of power...b of a certainly isn't buying ml for altruistic reasons.

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» RE: smoke and mirrors? Posted by: EncinoM
The American Dream is failing because the American Dream has become the world's nightmare.
Posted by: blogoffanddie on Sep 17, 2008 2:50 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The American Dream is failing because the American Dream has become the world's nightmare.

If the world has to deal with “Bush, the Sequel” John McCain and his sidekick, Sarah “my god can kick your god’s ass” Palin, we can expect more of the same mindless light on brains, heavy on bombs, ignore/destroy the economy.

Remember, the asshole America elects is usually the one who ends up shitting all over the planet.

http://blogoffanddie.wordpress.com

Vote McCain/Palin and build a bomb shelter

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Washington is IN ON IT - the CLUELESS are American People
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Sep 17, 2008 3:03 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"There is no easy answer, but there is only one solution -- and it lies polar opposite to the Bank of America-Merrill Lynch merger logic. The only real way to stabilize the financial industry is to take it apart, quantify and separate its risks, and begin again. We can do this. FDR did it. The market is larger now, and more global. That is not an excuse for inaction; it belies a screaming need for useful action and meaningful regulation. Period."

The "solution" advised by Nomi Prins is no better than the one suggested by Naomi Klein whose pap argument says "capitalism" (that DOES NOT EXIST under de facto FASCISM in the U.S.) is the problem.

A real solution would be to dismantle the Ponzi scheme "Federal Reserve" Corp (not federal, zero reserves) and institute an honest money system NOT rigged and owned by parasites at an organized corporate crime ruling class .

FDR was a brilliant politician but he had his limits. Here's what "New Deal" FDR actually thought about economic rule and economic power:

“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
President FDR (on Fascist rule in a letter to corporate con man “Colonel” Edward M. House, a founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson for the foisting of the privately rigged “Federal Reserve” Corp bank monopoly. 11/21/ 1933)

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-450 points on .dji today
Posted by: Dboy on Sep 17, 2008 3:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-450 points on .dji today, and thats on the heels of several other brutal days including a -500 point down day. Much more of this and we'll see a REAL panic. Would not surprise me at all to see a between-meeting fed cut (they announced no cut at the meeting). And we're looking at at LEAST one more bank failure. This is a clear demonstration of the result of 8 years of republican warmongering and greed blowing back on the country. Republicans are BAD for freedom, BAD for the economy, and BAD for America. This is the point where Obama needs to go in for the kill, send McCain into retirement and Sarah "6000 year Earth" Palin back to her igloo. ALWAYS ALWAYS kick an enemy when he's down. Come on Obama, run this thing in!

dboy

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"Plan for Change" Ad (Obama Campaign)
Posted by: Dboy on Sep 17, 2008 5:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONM7148cTyc

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So the so-called "solution" is "regulation"? YAWN...
Posted by: PointMan on Sep 17, 2008 5:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How is that "regulation" going to work with Corporate Crime status quo flunkies like Treasury Dept. Paulson (CEO Goldman Sachs) and Bernanke (head of Princeton Economics Dept.) rigging the system for their Nazi paymasters?

Yeah, thought so.

The same way scam "war on terror" was "regulated" to kill a million people and further demolish America.

Ain't we got fun.

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This is How We Keep Ourselves Up In England When Everything Else Is Going Down
Posted by: opmoc on Sep 17, 2008 7:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
just floating

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American Way of Life Uber Alles
Posted by: mrcentrist on Sep 17, 2008 9:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If worse comes to worst, the Federal Reserve and Treasury can order the "printing" (literal or digital) of trillions of dollars to bail out the U.S. This would cause massive global inflation, but the U.S. could pay off any public or private debts quickly. I'm sure American bankers are in meetings with bankers of foreign countries and giving them a Dirty Harry smile -- "Either you keep subsidizing the American Way of Life, or the U.S.A. will pull the trigger and bring down the world!"

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truthserum
Posted by: wankervon on Sep 17, 2008 10:18 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
everyone forgets how much blame the duplicitous, traitorous, cheerleading corporate media covered up this disaster. There were rarely any negative stories or warnings about the pending disasters, even though the evidence was quite clear.

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The liars are still dominating the media
Posted by: wankervon on Sep 17, 2008 10:22 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see that Kramer still has his own investment show on CNBC. He should have been purged , along with almost all the other business commentators, who are guilty of either fraud or gross incompetence. The cheerleaders are still on the air.

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Financial collapse
Posted by: ozonekidd on Sep 18, 2008 9:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Financial ignorance as a failing of Progressives: no kidding. The whole system is set up for the few to dominate the many through contrived systems of wealth management. The whole concept of "wealth" is askew, with Capital being the arbiter of what value really is. When the wage system is abolished, and that is humanly possible, perhaps the personal accumulation of vast sums of money will seem less important. The Economy is a human construct, built up over a couple of millenia. It can and must be deconstructed, and a new system that understands the word "finite" put in its place. Two choices: continue with the current system, and destroy most of the planet and the life on it, or live up to Evolutionary promise, and develop a new system that rewards sustainability. Go ahead and mock, pragmatists, it doesn't hurt my feelings. I wish you wouldn't destroy me and my grandchildren, though, to prove how "realists" run civilization, scientifically and dispassionately. When we develop an ethos of nobody being a loser, to include our little spaceship and the other inhabitants, then perhaps we'll survive long enough to understand the current folly.

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Nomi Prins comments as a former Wall Street Investment Banker. Her Views are More Valid, Crackpot!!
Posted by: yellow on Sep 18, 2008 2:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US Treasury doesn't just print as much money as they want. The US treasury has a strict criteria for printing new currency. The recent bailouts, including the $85 billion bailout of AIG, are through the US treasury Deptartment sale of treasury bills to raise money to loan the FED as well as the FED's purchase of bad debt from commercial and investment banks and funds. It's not the printing press but credit expansion, deficit and stagnation of productivity and output that is creating inflation. The problem is macro-economic not monetary and it won't be solved by monetary means.

If Nomi Prins failed to mention the gold standard or the FED there was a good reason. May it just isn't relevant!! Get a clue, crackpot and stop trolling.

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Perfect Shitstorm
Posted by: Direct Democracy on Sep 18, 2008 6:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By 2002 the mainstream business media were SHRIEKING that meltdown was imminent in the mortgage market.

There’s no excuse for allowing this to happen.

No amnesty, no pardons.

Pursue the Bush administration beyond January 20 until they are brought to justice.

FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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Economic Free-Fall Hits Workers Harder than Wall Street
Posted by: CA NOW on Sep 18, 2008 7:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We're writing about how the economic crisis is affecting women and families at the CA NOW blog: Economic Free-Fall Hits Workers Harder than Wall Street

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Living From Grandchild's Paycheck to Grandchild's Paycheck
Posted by: jimswanson on Sep 19, 2008 12:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Beginning with Ronald Reagan, Republican values went South. The American Dollar became the Confederate Dollar.

The GOP established huge rigged casinos, with the winnings going to the “lucky” few—the GOP’s constituency of the Super Rich and huge corporations—and with the losses, countless trillions of dollars, being shouldered by U.S. taxpayers.

Rigged structures are at the center of all of the humongous financial disasters of the last three decades -- from the S&L scandals and bailouts of the 1980s, to government contracting fraud in Iraq, to the current financial meltdown.

For further discussion, you can for free view and download chapters of my new book, "The Bush League of Nations," at www.bushleagueofnations.com.

See in particular Chapter 12, "The GOP's Bankruptcy of America -- Living from Grandchild's Paycheck to Grandchild's Paycheck."

When John McCain and the GOP talk about “reform” and use wonderful words like “freedom,” “privatization,” and “deregulation” -- and, more recently, “regulation!” -- be sure to count your fingers.

Jim Swanson, Los Altos, CA
www.bushleagueofnations.com

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bail-out now
Posted by: revoala on Sep 19, 2008 1:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Folks declare that you are not able to manage your financial affairs any better than the fictional economic entities of AIG, Bear Stearns, or Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. Call the government at 202 622-200 or at the govt. info. # 800 333-4636 and demand your bail-out resulting from the inability that you share with the other global enterprises unable to manage their monetary needs and now receiving a financial hand-out from the Treasury Dept. the Federal Reverse Bank and who knows what other entity to cover up the collapse of the phony capitalistic. Don't limit yourself to phone calls. Talk amongst each other. Start a bail-out parade in your town or request a bail-out from your local elected officials. Everyone deserves a bail-out no matter how incompetent you are at managing your monetary resources. Shout out loud and declare "Bail me out today America!" It is every American's god given right to be bailed out by his government. Take it to the streets, the mail, flood the govt. telephone lines with your need. BAIL ME OUT.

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crisis
Posted by: ghunt1971 on Sep 19, 2008 3:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the crisis of a lifetime. When the banks start failing, there's simply not enough money in the FDIC to insure everyone's savings. I don't mean to sound alarmist here, but this is exactly what Bernanke was telling lawmakers last night in his meeting. This current economic crisis is a direct result of the Bush policy of deregulation and the emerging of the shadowy economy. Now we're privatizing profits and socializing losses while these Wall St. crooks who helped get us into this mess leave their failing institutions with $10-million severance packages. I can only imagine if his social security "overhaul" was allowed to go through.

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I sure hope so
Posted by: Winner08 on Sep 20, 2008 5:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's truly unbelieveable, with the lowest rated ever sitting President, 2 wars and the economy in the dumps this election is a tie or so the liberal media would present. In fact, factoring in that same liberal media, the Bradley Effect this race isn't even close.

You have a candidate that uses the word CHANGE every fifth word, but never describes how and what he will change. Then again this is the SAME candidate that voted present more than 130 times! So Mr. Obama is for change, well his selection committee for his VP was the CEO of AIG, yeah thats the group that just got a bailed out by the US Senate! And yeah all of us taxpayers just paid that $300 Million Golden Parachute when he left. But what about CHANGE, in his first and presumably only executive decision, Mr. Obama selected Joe Biden as his running mate. That's change to the tune of 32 years of inside the beltway, part of the problem politics as usual, that's how Obama demonstrates his idea's on change, just words and more of the same, but say CHANGE every 5th word and some naive sole might believe him!

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Country First
Posted by: Winner08 on Sep 20, 2008 5:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The latest and on spot commercial by the McCain Campaign only demonstrates how McCain is RIGHT for America. In fact, I find it amazing that the democrats would like to paint McCain with the Bush brush but the facts are the facts and McCain and Chuck Hagel were the two biggest thorns in the Bush Adminstration side during the last 8 years. Ok so their both Republicans and their all the same from Abraham Lincoln to Richard Nixon .... go for it like all democrats are the same from FDR to Jimmy Carter.

Bottomline: You have a candidate who has a career of accomplishments against a candidate with NO accomplishments. While the idea is nice and fresh the facts are the facts, Mr. Obama has served in the Senate exactly 143 days (in session), coauthored NO legislation and while in the State Senate voted present more than 130 times! Facts are facts, CHANGE, CHANGE and more CHANGE sounds good but the devil is in the details and we haven't seen any details, only the Devil himself.

Also you may wish to google, Obama and Communism to find out what kind of background Mr. Obama has, if you REALLY want to know.

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Buddy Can You Spare a Dime
Posted by: Jimmyjames on Sep 20, 2008 6:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
new lyrics and audio for the Great Depression of '08

http://www.dumbpolitics2008.com/wordpress/?p=169

Once I had a mortgage, an ARM
The rate was just below prime
Once I had a mortgage, that was then
Buddy can you spare a dime?

Once I had a broker, Merrill Lynch
Lehman Brothers, what a time!
Once there was a Bear Sterns and AIG
Buddy can you spare a dime?

Once I had investments, a 401(k)
They were just doing so swell
Once I had a pension, but it went away
Retirement’s gonna be hell

Say, don’t you remember, they said “invest!”
They said “invest” all the time
Now there is recession it’s such a mess
Say buddy, can you spare a dime?

They used to tell me to go buy a house
I didn’t need that much down
That’s when the market was good and high
But now I feel, like I’ll drown

They used to tell me to I was building some wealth
Invest and you’ll get ahead
Why should I feel so broke
I’d be better off dead

Once I had a Beemer, and an SUV
Guzzled gas all the time
Now it’s just the bus and a bike for me
Can you spare a dime?

Once I had some coffee, Starbuck’s best
The taste was just so sublime
Now I use the cup to beg hard-pressed
Can you spare a dime?

Once I had investments, a 401(k)
They were just doing so swell
Once I had a pension, but it went away
Retirement’s gonna be hell

Say, don`t you remember, they said “invest!”
your money will grow all the time
Now my money’s worthless, I am so depressed
Say buddy, can you spare a dime?

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Keep communism from America
Posted by: nelsonpete15 on Sep 21, 2008 2:26 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As long as Barak Lenin is not elected we should be able to recover just fine. But if Barak Ocommie gets in control (highly unlikely) we are headed for run away government spending and inefficient government health care, not to mention negotiating with mad men like Kim Jong and Amedinijad. Yikes!!! I know Americans are not that crazy. Go McCain!!!!!

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No
Posted by: Patriot Acting on Sep 22, 2008 6:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They need to just leave it alone, I don't have stock for a reason. You should not trust other people with your money. Let them bail themselves out. But I'm sure it is hard to think clearly with the sun getting in their eyes all the time while sitting on the deck of their yacht. God forbid if they were to sell thier yacht and put the money back in the pot themselves. No let's give them more money to lose from the deck.

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enuffalready
Posted by: enuffalready on Sep 23, 2008 1:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can we afford to wait 5 more months ??

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Any results to show so far?
Posted by: hankhawk on Sep 23, 2008 6:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Paulson is in a super hurry to get $700 billion
otherwise everything will crash.

In the past two weeks, the government has taken over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the country's two biggest mortgage companies, with a bailout plan that could require the Treasury Department to put up as much as $100 billion for each of them over time if needed to keep them afloat as mortgage losses mount.

Last week, the Federal Reserve provided an emergency $85 billion loan to AIG, which teetered on the brink of bankruptcy. Lehman Brothers was forced to file for bankruptcy after attempts to engineer a private rescue fell apart. All the companies were laid low from bad bets on complex mortgage-related securities.

So I'd like to see the results of the above
loans -- how much have those institutions
changed and helped the public?

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