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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

The Iraq War Is Killing Our Economy

By Robert Pollin and Heidi Garrett-Peltier, The Nation. Posted March 18, 2008.


Recognizing the costs of the Iraq War is even more crucial now that the economy is facing recession.
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There is no longer any doubt that the Iraq War is a moral and strategic disaster for the United States. But what has not yet been fully recognized is that it has also been an economic disaster. To date, the government has spent more than $522 billion on the war, with another $70 billion already allocated for 2008.

With just the amount of the Iraq budget of 2007, $138 billion, the government could instead have provided Medicaid-level health insurance for all 45 million Americans who are uninsured. What's more, we could have added 30,000 elementary and secondary schoolteachers and built 400 schools in which they could teach. And we could have provided basic home weatherization for about 1.6 million existing homes, reducing energy consumption in these homes by 30 percent.

But the economic consequences of Iraq run even deeper than the squandered opportunities for vital public investments. Spending on Iraq is also a job killer. Every $1 billion spent on a combination of education, healthcare, energy conservation and infrastructure investments creates between 50 and 100 percent more jobs than the same money going to Iraq. Taking the 2007 Iraq budget of $138 billion, this means that upward of 1 million jobs were lost because the Bush Administration chose the Iraq sinkhole over public investment.

Recognizing these costs of the Iraq War is even more crucial now that the economy is facing recession. While a recession is probably unavoidable, its length and severity will depend on the effectiveness of the government's stimulus initiatives. By a wide margin, the most effective stimulus is to expand public investment projects, especially at the state and local levels. The least effective fiscal stimulus is the one crafted by the Bush Administration and Congress--mostly to just send out rebate checks to all taxpayers. This is because a high proportion of the new spending encouraged by the rebates will purchase imports rather than financing new jobs in the United States, whereas public investment would concentrate job expansion within the country. Combining this Bush stimulus initiative with the ongoing spending on Iraq will only deepen the severity of the recession.

Is Militarism Necessary for Prosperity?

The government spent an estimated $572 billion on the military in 2007. This amounts to about $1,800 for every resident of the country. That's more than the combined GDPs of Sweden and Thailand, and eight times federal spending on education.

The level of military spending has risen dramatically since 2001, with the increases beginning even before 9/11. As a share of GDP, the military budget rose from 3 percent to 4.4 percent during the first seven years of the Bush presidency. At the current size of the economy, a difference between a military budget at 4.4 rather than 3 percent of GDP amounts to $134 billion.

The largest increases in the military budget during the Bush presidency have been associated with the Iraq War. Indeed, the $138 billion spent on Iraq in 2007 was basically equal to the total increase in military spending that caused the military budget to rise to 4.4 percent of GDP. It is often argued that the military budget is a cornerstone of the economy--that the Pentagon is a major underwriter of important technical innovations as well as a source of millions of decent jobs. At one level these claims are true. When the government spends upward of $600 billion per year of taxpayers' money on anything, it cannot help but generate millions of jobs. Similarly, when it spends a large share of that budget on maintaining and strengthening the most powerful military force in the history of the world, this cannot fail to encourage technical innovations that are somehow connected to the instruments of warfare.

Yet it is also true that channeling hundreds of billions of dollars into areas such as renewable energy and mass transportation would create a hothouse environment supporting new technologies. For example, utilities in Arizona and Nevada are developing plans to build "concentrated" solar power plants, which use the sun to heat a liquid that can drive a turbine. It is estimated that this technology, operating on a large scale, could drive down the costs of solar electricity dramatically, from its current level of about $4 per watt to between $2.50 and $3 per watt in the sunniest regions of the country. At these prices, solar electricity becomes much cheaper than oil-driven power and within range of coal. These and related technologies could advance much more rapidly toward cost competitiveness with coal, oil and nuclear power if they were to receive even a fraction of the subsidies that now support weapons development (as well as the oil industry).


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See more stories tagged with: economy, iraq

Robert Pollin is professor of economics and co-director of the Political Economy Research Institute (PERI) at the University of Massachusetts. Heidi Garrett-Peltier is a PhD candidate in economics at the University of Massachusetts and a research assistant at PERI.



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The Party's Over
Posted by: Tom Degan on Mar 18, 2008 1:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All I can say to anyone who seriously believes that a change of administrations is going to change the situation in Iraq is this:

Have another sip.

It's the same old vicious cycle. Four thousand kids get killed and instead of the half-witted Texan in the White House realizing what a terrible mistake he's made, he sends in still more kids to justify those alrerady killed. Before you know it, you've got 58,000 dead kids!

Does that sound familiar?

America is going to be suffering for years as a result of the administration of George W. Bush. You want to hear the funny thing? America is getting exactly what it deserves. When the trillion dollar shithammer finally comes crashing down, those of us who have spent years waving the red flag will be vindicated. In fact we already are.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The Party's Over - AMEN Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: The Party's Over Posted by: walldodger1969
» RE: The Party's Over Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: The Party's Over...Hey Tom!! Posted by: Captainmagic
» Time for Impeachment Posted by: jcage
» RE: The Party's Over Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: The Party's Over Posted by: patfr
» RE: The Party's Over Posted by: Knot_Rich
The Stench of Death.
Posted by: williameon on Mar 18, 2008 3:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
War Memorial to GREED!

One thousand dead Kids pictures on the wall.
Kill more for Greed
Another thousand Dead Kids pictures on the wall
Sacrifice more for Greed
Three thousand Dead Kids pictures on the wall
Killed for Greed
Spatter another thousand Dead Kids Blood
On the wall
Of Greed!

All Hail!
The
Gods of WAR
(Dead Eye and The Shrub)
and
The their phony
Religion of Violence
That permeates our Society
With the stench of
Death.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» and don`t forget....... Posted by: starvinmarvy
» RE: The Stench of Death. Posted by: Artra
Did it ever occur to you that this was all part of the great NeoCon plan?
Posted by: nzo on Mar 18, 2008 3:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No? Think again and more importantly, think for yourself.

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out of the war.
Posted by: jeffreytaos on Mar 18, 2008 3:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When you are losing your ass in Vegas, you cash in, take your losses and go home while you still can. When your credit cards are forcing you to choose between paying the bill or buying food for the kids, most sensible people tear up the credit cards, and start again. It's time to bail on the war, come hell or civil unrest, it shouldn't matter. It's not our job to look after these people with our soilders and our economy being thrown at the problem like tossing money into a burning bush. It's time to stop worrying about reputation and get out before we become a third world empire at the beck and call of the money lenders abroad. Yes, it may be a neocon plan to break the bank, but it's time to get out before the bank closes.

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» RE:they already stole the bank Posted by: GrannyBgood
» RE: out of the war. Posted by: donl51
jobs
Posted by: metoo on Mar 18, 2008 4:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jobs are created in the supply of weapons and support; it could be a wash if the jobs making guns were replaced to make butter.

We have always spent too much on defense, this is nothing new, it's not like we can direct where our taxes go.

Our economic problem existed before Iraq and to deny it is foolishness.

We moved into a global economy much too fast, we didn't prepare our educational system to shift gears because they needed jobs to give away to build foreign markets, and we prioritized building markets elsewhere at a steep cost.

But that wasn't the final blow; the final blow is bad trade deals as a policy. No business or economy can amass the trade deficits we have, borrow from our trading partners too float the banks and bail us out of trouble so we can continue to buy cheap goods from them, building their economy at the cost of ours.

Who wasn't thinking? Who thought building China wasn't going to result in a larger demand for energy resources? Capitalism is a failure when everyone plays.

Today democracy is viewed as a bad system, that's the result of Bush's policies. When America can no longer afford to compete, Capitalism will be viewed by them as a bad system.

Exploiting labor will no longer be successful in the US so profits will decrease and income disparity will be regulated. Under that scenario business will be less attractive.

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» RE: Capitalism run amuck Posted by: GrannyBgood
» Even China and India Posted by: B. Spoon
» RE: jobs Posted by: donl51
» RE: jobs Posted by: dmaciewski
» RE: jobs Posted by: metoo
Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 18, 2008 4:19 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without a wartime economy and the housing bubble the rotting American economy would have sank to the bottom a long time ago.

The Bush administration: Try 'em & Fry 'em

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"Guns" or "butter"? Which is better for America?
Posted by: nochicagoboys on Mar 18, 2008 4:29 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's undeniable that the United States has become a manufacturer of war-machine implements versus being (as we once were) a nation of manufacturing that creates other jobs (steel, automobiles, infrastructure, etc., etc.).

Downturns in the economy are part of the normal, capitalistic, business cycle. If you recall the old axiom, "guns or butter", it refers to the possible ways the government can spend money to stimulate economic growth. The government can either spend it on "guns" (implements of war) or "butter" (domestic programs, i.e., social programs, infrastructure, roads, bridges, park development, public mass transit, etc.). Since the Reagan years the trend has been to spend predominately on "guns".

A return to some semblance of a sane Keynesian economic model would help to stop the hemorrhaging and, hopefully, begin the healing. Otherwise, continuing with the classical, or Austrian, model will only dig us deeper into the abyss. Coupling the Austrian model, so revered by the late Milton Friedman, with government military action is a surefire recipe for Naomi Klein's description of "disaster economics" (as is occurring in Iraq). Hopefully it's not too late to avert the very real possibility of this model being set loose in this country (unless we're seeing the start of it beginning right now).

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» I'll blame health insurers Posted by: B. Spoon
» Austrian model Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Austrian model Posted by: nochicagoboys
Iraq didn't have a central bank
Posted by: Trazom on Mar 18, 2008 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
until now. That and the oil is why we went over. The economic costs so far incurred are inconsequential compared to what was to be gained. That and greater debt is essential to propping up the US as a debtor nation and keeping the fractional reserve banking system alive and well (or sick, depending on how you look at it).

The other nations without a central bank? Interestingly they are none other than the other countries defined as the Axis of Evil, Iran and North Korea. Go figure.

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Bin Laden is Winning
Posted by: FSadley on Mar 18, 2008 6:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BinLaden stated one of his aims was to ruin the American economy. If we continue this "War on Terror" he will win. The best defense against terrorism is a good stable economy, where people have good jobs, their children go to good schools, and there is a better future to look forward to. If we continue to base our economic future on war, we will be raising children to be soldiers and that's about it. It's not a future I want for my children or my grandchildren.

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» RE: Bin Laden is Winning Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Bin Laden is Winning Posted by: democracynowiniraq
The next president will have to be charismatic, sincere, and effective
Posted by: andabottleof_rum on Mar 18, 2008 6:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in order to prevent a lurch toward political extremism as the economy sinks into oblivion.

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» RE: So, FORGET McCain! Posted by: GrannyBgood
Boy are you (we) misssing the elephant in the room
Posted by: B. Spoon on Mar 18, 2008 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Health care IS the economy, Stupid!" I don't mean anyone personally is stupid, just that we all collectively are (stupid). According to Physicians for a National Health Program (not me) AFTER ALL AMERICANS ARE COVERED RELIABLY AND COMPREHENSIVELY FROM CRADLE TO GRAVE WE COULD SAVE AT LEAST $350 BILLION PER YEAR simply by cutting out one very unnecessary, expensive and amoral middleman (profit-driven health insurers). Should I mention the 101,000 easily preventable American deaths each year due simply to lack of health care access here? That's according to a recent study in Health Affairs (not me). That's not counting mistakes, which are not easily preventable but represent another 100,000 death toll figure that would also be reduced if we were all in one protective pool with freedom of choice among independent providers (Improved Medicare for All, HR-676) instead of divided and conquered in multiple, aptly named health insurer "risk groups". The 18,000 figure you hear most often is just the UNinsured who die due to lack of access, but there are many under insured without access to preventative care who die too. The 18,000 dead UNinsured Americans each year has been raised to 22,000...and in my opinion is grossly under-estimated (like innocent civilian deaths in Iraq).

Of course the Invasion of Iraq is a problem that needs to be fixed, but our health insurers make our oil barons and military-industrial giants look like chump changers. Apparently health insurers are invisible to Americans, like the emperor's robes. Fixing our broken health insurance system is the single best, most important thing we need to do for our economy, our people, and our future...and appears even more (not less) so when placed next to Iraq for context. That reminds me, I neglected to mention the additional $50 billion/year (for $400 billion total and rising) we would save simply by preventably treating diabetes before eyesight, limbs and kidneys are lost...or the millions of bankruptcies, disablings, lawsuits and Americans living in terror caused by our health insurance system.

NONE of the top three presidential candidates is even pointing us in the right direction on health care, and the reason is simply money and power (theirs not ours). Please wake up, America.

Would you give $1000 each month to Al Qaeda? If you are under 65 years old, have decent health coverage and a family, you will give (on average) that much this month to health insurers to help keep our health care crises from being solved.

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WRONG! Your Economy is Killing Iraqis and many others
Posted by: PakiBoy on Mar 18, 2008 6:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
n/t

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» Good Point Posted by: tommy_slothrop
Camp Victory
Posted by: modeler on Mar 18, 2008 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What victory? Typical Bushit like Mission accomplished and 4000 dead and 40 000 maimed, not to mention the hundreds of thousands Iraqi victims after that brag. The Iraq war, sure as hell, is the main reason for todays "booming" economy at the edge of recession. Great democracy with a few very rich with all the tax and other breaks and millions of ordinary folk at the edge of disaster. Repugnican to say the least. And a misunderestimated president at the helm of a sinking ship.

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bummer Kevorkian isn't in business anymore...
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Mar 18, 2008 7:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
bummer Kevorkian isn't in business anymore... all this despair....global genocide, global ecocide, poverty, war...where is the clinic where we can go to just "check out" in a painless way!?!?
get me off this planet!

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» You can't be making that up Posted by: B. Spoon
OH GEE!
Posted by: donl51 on Mar 18, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a fucking surprise,glad a real writer decided to write an artcle on something I've been saying for quite some time!!,How could it not?That man pours money into a never ending situation w/out a thought in his mind!,I give him credit for having a mind,what's wrong with me!!,We've ruined their country,granted Saddam was bad news ,but a great deal of what he was ,was our doing,he just stepped too far w/o our permission,as is the case w/ others,since we seem to have a perpensity to run the affairs of others for our best interest,thing is a lot of us don't want our interests to be the best,the way our chosen leaders are doing it,.Now our leader makes up lies about Chavez,that our media,dutifully follows and leads the people ''the non thinkers'' by their noses!....so as we speak our own country suffers,!Glad Pelosi finally stood up to that nutcase,but I fear another Gov.org. is doing w/o permission or care behind our backs things nobody will be able to stop!We the people need to raise our voices and out the wrong doers,re-create FEMA,homeland security,and fully rid ourselves of that Gestapo DEA,altogether!!enough said from this citizen for now! I'm getting off the initial subject and ranting!

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There's Only ONE WAY to End the False "War on Terror" - 9/11 Truth
Posted by: BillDouglas on Mar 18, 2008 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the past few weeks a former Italian Prime Minister wrote in Italy's largest newspaper that 9/11 was an inside job. He's the one who blew the whistle on the false flag operation GLADIO.

A Japanese Senator from the largest Japanese opposition Party said 9/11 was an inside job on national television in Japan.

The European Parliament held a 9/11 truth conference last month.

Former 9/11 Commissioner, Bob Kerry, according to an Air America host who has contacts with him, is now calling for an open ended 9/11 investigation to examine all the new emerging facts about 9/11.

Even American Icons like Willie Nelson have gone public saying 9/11 was an inside job, the Oscar winning actress, Charlie Sheen, Rosie O'Donnell . . .

and now a New York Times best selling novelist who wrote an explosive new historical fiction "The Shell Game" about the White House committing terror on Americans to fool us into war with Iran, has used his corporate media appearances to point out disturbing 9/11 facts that point to 9/11 as an inside job.

Until Alternet, and The Nation, take on the fuel that is causing the bonfire of fear in Americans, 9/11 . . . the wars will not be stopped.

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» Who is 'us'? Posted by: rockpicker
» RE: Who is 'us'? Posted by: dustdevil
» Didn't we go through this with JFK? Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
If the war was good for "the economy" ...
Posted by: tommy_slothrop on Mar 18, 2008 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
would it then be OK?

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» It's been great for the economy! Posted by: rockpicker
Best Comment
Posted by: JSquercia on Mar 18, 2008 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read the best comment on the current Financial Crisis it said that the world is exercising a Margin Call on the US . The problem is of course that the world is going to make us pay DEARLY for the financial Mess Bush has created . We can NOT continue the ludicrous policy of cutting taxes in a time of war . This has never been done before in OUR history and so far as I know in anyone's history . Even John McCain KNEW it was WRONG of course that was BEFORE he was running for President . Kind of like Cheney , who had it right about why NOT to inavde Iraq during the Gulf War but who saw an opportunity to make a potfull of money and so IGNORED his own advice . Of course it turned out the Cheney should have listened to himself

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» Cheney will be crying Posted by: jwg
» RE: Best Comment Posted by: CatDad
And the band plays on
Posted by: sre on Mar 18, 2008 8:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm afraid that the attitude of most Americans is: "So what? It doesn't matter what is done over there, things will continue as they always have." In the words of Alfred E. Neuman of Mad Magazine "What me worry?" Most Americans just don't care. When you realize that, the cause of the economic and governmental problems we have becomes obvious.

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» Americans would care if Posted by: B. Spoon
"Let the little people die"
Posted by: zooeyhall on Mar 18, 2008 9:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The powers-that-be, the oligarchy that runs this country, doesn't care twat about the little people suffering in a recession. They know full well the economic consequences of the Iraq war. Thing is, if you earned $50 million last year, what does a recession and an ecomomic downturn mean to you? The cries of despair will never reach you behind the gates of your gated community. As you cruise down the city streets in your tinted windows limo, you won't see the unemployed lined up. Or the homeless on the street.

I guess what I am saying is that there is such a disconnect between the uber-wealthy class and the rest of us schmucks, that we are nothing but vermin to them. It's gotten to the point where it isn't only "let them eat cake" but "let them die".

SAD

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» RE: "Let the little people die" Posted by: mwinmag300
Off-subject (or maybe not) comments.
Posted by: willymack on Mar 18, 2008 9:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was watching C-Span the other night. There was a speech given by Michelle Obama, followed by one by Bill Clinton. Michelle immediately captivated me with the power of her brilliant mind, reflected in her speech, and delivered with an almost mesmerizing force and convivtion. I got a lump in my throat while listening to this great American. This is no george or laura bush! What struck me the most was the LOVE behind her voice and body language. A little while ago, I watched a speech by Barak, the purpose of which was to contain the damage done to him, not so much by the incendiary nature of his pastor's utterences, but by the knuckleheaded "news" commentators and other fools posing as journalists and "experts". This speech is almost certain to be replayed-at least on C-Span if nowhere else, and I strongly urge all here to listen to it in it's entirety. I got the same lump in my throat while listening to Barack as I did with Michelle. Here are two people who, unlike our current "prezdint", actually took their college studies seriously and acquired an EDUCATION which is so obvious in their command of language, polish, and thorough grasp of the issues confronting us today. They both come across as superbly gifted intellectuals, full of positive thoughts, chief among them, LOVE. Love of our country and our people-ALL of us. Contrast this to bush clone mccain, who is certain to make things WORSE, not better, if "elected". If anyone who's listened to Michelle and Barack, especially when under fire STILL doubts they'd make a great team in the White House, please, do all of us a favor; if you can't give the Obamas the benefit of the doubt, then stay home on election day.

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the war isnt killing our economy...it *is* our economy...
Posted by: Annapurna1 on Mar 18, 2008 10:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it is a sad fact that the US dollar is hedged against mineral rights to be seized by the brutal use of force...as such..military spending becomes somewhat analogous to a stock option...

i need not point out the obvious flaws with this approach.. the economy is showing signs of fatigue simply because the war has failed to cash in the "stock options" in a timely fashion...

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I agree stop the war and fund America
Posted by: jwg on Mar 18, 2008 10:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but the point that has not been made is that we borrowed the money to pay for the war. Just ending it will not free up funds for health and education. But it will make it easier to pay the interest for the rest of our lives if not the entire loan. Also those loans and speculators are driving up the price of oil and causing the dollar to drop. Maybe we need an old time world wide depression to wipe out the rich and level the playing field again. Not my wish but there is always a silver lining if you look hard enough.

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» Hey! Wait a minute! Posted by: rockpicker
New deal two
Posted by: solrev on Mar 18, 2008 11:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read the article and comments and it just dawned on me that we grab trees because we can not see the forest. Welfare jobs whether they be guns or butter are just that. Shock doctrine a good conspiracy theory, unfortunately we are not as omnipotent as we think. We seem to be able to just hang on to little chunks of reality and who ever happens to end up in power, their chunk gets to be dominant. I think we are living in the Matrix, a dream world. Take the supply sidewinders, they claim Friedman as the father of free market capitalism. Klein buys into this and blames him for the woes of the world. Friedman lived through the depression and was a new deal young man and considered himself a liberal. He received a Ph.D. in 1946, a noble prize in 1976. The last year the United States was a net exporter was 1975. When he was a thinken and a formulaten, the thing that would have made the greatest producer and exporter the world has ever known even greater, was free trade. Demons pride themselves on increasing minimum wage; Friedman was so far ahead of us that he despised the welfare state. Do not give them welfare and a minimum wage; give them a flat tax and a guaranteed income. Friedman was a liberal, free trader, and senile old man and people in power have been grabbing chunks of him his whole life. We need to grab chunks of some future and try to make them work rather than trying to grab chunks of the past, which can only make us blind to the future. Maybe a great depression will make us more action orientated than reaction orientated. As long as there is a bigger piece a pie to fight over we are going to war. I for one am ready for New Deal II.

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Michael Prysner On His War In Iraq Shows True Courage As He Identifies The Real Enemy
Posted by: opmoc on Mar 18, 2008 11:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Michael Prysner's testimony at Winter Soldier

Watch the video below!

"We were told we were fighting terrorism...The real terrorism was this occupation... I threw families onto the street in Iraq only to come home and see families thrown onto the street in this country in this tragic and unnecessary foreclosure crisis... Our enemy is not 5,000 miles away: they are right here at home." -- Michael Prysner

In the must-watch video below, Iraq war veteran and ANSWER organizer Michael Prysner retells his horrifying responsibilities as an occupation soldier, and denounces the Army officers who used racism and bigotry in order to justify the oppression of the Iraqi people. Prysner's eloquent and compelling testimony cuts through the Pentagon's propaganda and exposes the truth of the Iraq occupation -- please circulate this video to your friends, family members, classmates, co-workers and listservs.

Prysner joined the U.S. Army at age 17 and in March 2003, he was deployed to northern Iraq. He remained there for 12 months. Bearing witness to the many crimes of the occupation, Prysner became a staunch opponent of the war, and in 2005 he began organizing and speaking out against it. The four-day Winter Soldier event was organized by Iraq War Veterans Against the War.

Part One, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i5ZUfpxnV0

Part Two, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iTdxBECos8

from A.N.S.W.E.R

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Morality is Good Business..
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Mar 18, 2008 11:34 AM   
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Here's a News Flash:

Morality is Good for Business...Unbridled Greed and Immoral Foreign Policies Are Bad For Business...

Don't Tell David Rockefeller or the Bilderberg Group..!

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Actually, the economy was dead in the water in 1999
Posted by: joeunix on Mar 18, 2008 12:01 PM   
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» yer a laugh a minute, joe Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
Carlyle Group fund collapses
Posted by: joeunix on Mar 18, 2008 12:09 PM   
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The good news: George Herbert Walker Bush lost his @ss.

The bad news: Your pension will soon be worthless as it drowns in hyper inflation.

Carlyle Group fund collapses

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The bottom line on the subprime crisis
Posted by: joeunix on Mar 18, 2008 12:13 PM   
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talking points don't equal net effect
Posted by: mwinmag300 on Mar 18, 2008 1:01 PM   
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Liberal pundits and prognosticators such as the writers of this piece CANNOT tell what the total loss or benefit of a free Iraq will be. Or, for that matter, the effect on women's rights or other freedoms throughout that region. And, no, you and I don't know either. We speculate one way or the other based on our views, just as these writers have done. Perhaps we will see stability in that oil rich region, while we increase fuel efficiency and create new technology at home? The writer's liberal talking points are only solid in that they are solidly liberal. Big government programs have never helped a free market thrive, they have only diminished opportunity for our children and raised the liability that our children must inherit. Government must only have oversight that allows a true free market. We have not seen this in a very long time thanks to our corporate-run government, and socialist policies at the federal and state/local level.

True, we should not have gone into Iraq (IMHO), and we would be ahead deficit-wise if we hadn't, since tax revenues have been up under present tax cuts and a robust economy. But the total of our economic situation cannot be attributed to Iraq expenditures. As a percentage of GDP, this war is a bargain compared to others and the upside COULD BE tremendous (although someone who has lost a son or daughter over there might disagree). The reality is that a down cycle in the economy is inevitable, but not terminal, especially after so many months of great economic news. Once stability is returned to the markets, and speculation on oil prices corrects itself, we will be on to the next economic cycle, whatever it is.

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» Like hell Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Like truth Posted by: mwinmag300
» RE: Like truth Posted by: Quannah
Weary of half-truths.
Posted by: Sojourner on Mar 18, 2008 1:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I really don't need another article explaining to me how we could have better spent our money elsewhere than on Iraq.

Nor do I need another comment about how it is OK because in the long run, the war will have proved to be a bargain. As an upthread comment suggests, rhetorically, invading another nation because it is good for our economy is the road to hell.

We need to get our priorities straight. First and foremost is the health of our planet. Anything that destabilizes our climate is poison.

My local paper points out that the salmon run up the Sacramento River is not happening this year. It seems the sea could not feed the young when they returned a year or so ago. We cannot deplete our fisheries without massive human starvation as a result.

Must we wait for the event of massive starvation before we do something? Must we see our planet become a catastrophe before we do something? Are we incapable--as a people--of doing anything? As always, time will tell.

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finally, an article with some insight
Posted by: hooligan on Mar 18, 2008 1:36 PM   
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I applaud your work and your sentiment. Hopefully it begins a process where light can shine on the debate about what politicians should and should not have the power to do. What I would add though, is that you haven;t developed the theme of economic salvation anywhere near enough. Think about how a Government could raise the living standards of the country by creating an asset portfolio, funded by fiscal surpluses, that actually raises living standards, rather than this petty party politics that just perpetuates a gravy train for the inept. Once again I applaud you for making the comparison. I think you should sponsor a political party that embraces your sentiments and works to advance civilisation rather than destroying it, as the curret status quo will inevitably do by creating more and more poverty. Bravo!

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An Over-Bloated Military Does Nothing But Invite Trouble
Posted by: sofla100 on Mar 18, 2008 2:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One good way to look at weaponry and warfare is to consider that historically, whenever a new weapon or type of weapon has been developed, it has always been used. Nukes being no exception, as we look at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The same thing really for Armies and military establishments. The size and power of the US military is just too tempting to not be used. By, its very size and nature, it invites being used. If America only had a "self-defense" force and much more conservative military spending, then the chances for Iraq type wars would markedly diminish. By the simple fact that these type of wars would no longer be feasible or possible. Therefore, reducing military spending not only saves America tons of money which could be used for multiple better purposes, but significantly reduces the probability of foolish wars and stupid behavior on the part of our politicians.
The only real purpose for America to need or have a military today is for self-defense. All this other stuff, protecting Israel, projecting power, strategic war, is a bunch of nonsense and very dangerous. It is time to reduce our military drastically to only what is needed as a self-defense force.

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correction
Posted by: mwinmag300 on Mar 18, 2008 2:29 PM   
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I meant to say unemployment in my area is way down.

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A Classic Example of American Economics
Posted by: gonzoskismet on Mar 18, 2008 3:57 PM   
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Here's a true story from the era of the Space
Race in the Sixties. Nasa, i.e., the Government,
spent millions of dollars developing a pen that would work in zero gravity. The pen was eventually
developed. The Russians didn't have this problem.
They spent very little because their Cosmonauts
used a PENCIL in zero gravity.
This is a Pork Barrel Government, ladies and gentlemen. This is the Vampire Government. They will suck each and every one of you completely dry to ensure their continued existence and they don't give a tinkers damn how many of you it kills, make homeless or jobless. Just as long as they survive. And, until you drive a stake through the heart of this Monster,
it will feed upon your fear, your resources and your good nature until the last flag that will ever wave for you will be over the graves of you and your loved ones. Is it too late? You tell me.

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