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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

How Deep Will the Recession Go?

By John Miller, Dollars and Sense. Posted February 8, 2008.


The economic recovery underway since late 2001 is probably over. Too bad many Americans never got to experience it.
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It's not only radical economists and cyberspace Cassandras uttering the "r"-word nowadays. Just what are we to make of it when Harvard economists, The Economist magazine, and Morgan Stanley followed by Goldman Sachs and Merrill Lynch say the economy is headed toward, or already in, a recession?

You can bet the house, whatever its current value, that hard times are on the way -- more layoffs, fewer new jobs, lower wages, tighter family budgets, more debt, and higher poverty levels. This year will see rising economic hardship even if the U.S. economy scrapes by without sinking into an official recession, usually defined as two straight quarters of declining output.

How do I know this? Hard times have been the hallmark of the U.S. economy during this decade, even as the economy expanded. We will be in for more of the same, but worse, as the economy slows and the inevitable downturn in the business cycle exacerbates the economic injuries many people have already sustained thanks to long-term shifts in the U.S. economic system.

And Those Were the Good Times

For a while now, there have been plenty of signs that the overall U.S. economy is headed south. Economic growth stalled in the last three months of 2007, adding only 0.6 percent to output after correcting for inflation. In December, job growth ground to a near halt, and the economy lost 17,000 jobs in January, as construction suffered large job losses. The unemployment rate jumped to 5.0 percent for the first time in three years, and would be much higher if the labor force participation rate -- the fraction of the population either working or actively looking for work -- were at the same level as when George Bush took office. On top of that, retail sales tanked in December as worried consumers cut back on holiday spending. Finally, the terminally volatile stock market registered one of its worst Januaries on record, enough to induce a panicked Fed to make an emergency interest-rate cut.

But even leaving these and other recent numbers aside, U.S. economic performance this decade has been nothing to write home about. The economy has now expanded for 74 straight months, from November 2001 to December 2007, far longer than the usual 51-month postwar expansion. But economic growth has been the slowest of any postwar expansion, averaging just 2.8 percent a year, far below the 4.3 percent average posted by earlier postwar business cycles of similar length. Worse yet, the economic growth that has occurred has done so little for so many -- and so much for so few.

  • Employment expanded by just 0.9 percent a year since the recovery began, compared with an average of 2.5 percent for all recoveries that have lasted at least this long.
  • After correcting for inflation, weekly wages were just 1.9 percent higher in October 2007 than at the onset of the last recession in March 2001. The average postwar expansion drove wages up by twice that amount, 3.8 percent.
  • Seven million more people were without health insurance in 2006 than when the expansion began in 2001.
  • Median household income actually fell during this recovery. After correcting for inflation, median household income in 2006 (the latest year for which data are available) was down 2.0 percent from its 2000 level, and down 8.0 percent for black families.
  • The poverty rate was 12.3 percent in 2006 (again the latest year available), down from 12.6 percent in 2005, but still a full percentage point above the 11.3 percent rate at the onset of the last recession.
  • U.S. inequality reached levels not seen since the 1920s as the average real (inflation-adjusted) income of the richest 1 percent of households rose 34.8 percent from 2001 to 2005, while rising just 0.8 percent for the middle fifth of the population and falling by 3.0 percent for the poorest fifth.
  • And corporate profits skyrocketed. Inflation-adjusted corporate profits rose 12.8 percent a year during the first five years of this recovery, compared to an 8.3 percent average growth rate in the other postwar recoveries lasting at least as long.

No wonder 7 out of 10 people think the U.S. economy is heading into a recession, according to a recent poll conducted by the Economic Cycle Research Institute, a New York-based independent think tank. For many, the recession that began in March 2001 and ended, officially, that October has in reality continued straight through the decade.

Pop Goes the Housing Bubble

Besides punishing people who work for a living and those who can't even find a job, the 2008 economy will face a financial crisis brought on by the bursting of the housing bubble. How bad will it get? Pretty bad. A decade long stagnation, as Harvard economist Larry Summers suggests, or "the worst housing bust ever," as NYU professor Noureil Roubini suggests, are not out of the question. Here is why.


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See more stories tagged with: recession, lending crisis, depression, consumerism, economic growth, wealth, inequality

John Miller is a professor of economics at Wheaton College and a member of the D&S collective.



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The depths
Posted by: mbruton on Feb 8, 2008 1:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This will continue, of course until citizens start to drag the richfilth into the streets and burn them alive along with all of their family members. Until then it will be organized crime as usual.

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» RE: "until citizens" Posted by: aka_bozo
» RE: The depths Posted by: Rod
Kucinich is the answer!
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Feb 8, 2008 1:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John Edwards is a johnny-come-lately and though a decent enough man his record in the Senate inspired nothing. Dennis Kucinich has labored long and hard in the House and has put forth a very aggressive economic recovery package that should be endorsed by every Democrat but he can't get it to the floor. Same is true of his Cheney impeachment resolution. He cannot be President but maybe, just maybe we can elect enough progressives in November to enable him to become Speaker. If that happens, it doesn't matter who is President and there will be hope for the changes Prof. Miller seeks and the nation requires to survive.

What has to scare everyone is the total absence of dialogue about the economy. Like daddy, like son...."its the economy, stupid!" When are the pretenders going to play that card or will they be economically "swift-boated" into oblivion ala Kerry.

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Good article - but what is missing?
Posted by: UnEasyOne on Feb 8, 2008 3:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funding!

The dollar is collapsing because the wealth of this country has been skimmed off to further enrich the richest.

The Economy is collapsing because every ounce of wealth has been squeezed out of the lower 90% through the export of manufacturing, the destruction of unions and the consequent suppression of wages.

First TAX THE RICH! Make the income tax progressive AND all Social Security taxes! They have made that wealth through the sweat of OUR brows and by turning our electoral process into an auction where an investment of millions brings billions of advantage.

They have institutionalized bribery and legalized various methods of theft. Their gains - even when technically legal - are mostly ill-gotten and should be used to repair what they have broken. Class warfare has been waged while we slept - and we have lost.

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» and... oh yeah, the war Posted by: thistleblower
» RE: and... oh yeah, the war Posted by: MyLeftFoot
The sound of the tumbrils on Pennsylvainia Ave....
Posted by: Marlena on Feb 8, 2008 4:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
can you hear them getting closer? Yes the rich constantly wage class warfare on the rest of us, while whineing about it when we call them on it. The French people in 1789 had an answer for the unbridled greed of the 1% at the top.....guillotine!!! So, lets get the tumbrils rolling for this bunch too! And all their enablers and apologist hangers on. BTW, a tumbril was used to haul pig poop...kind of fitting isn't it??

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» Surrender monkeys? NOT!!! Posted by: zooeyhall
» Where's the outrage? Posted by: makeadifference
» RE: Surrender monkeys? NOT!!! Posted by: nochicagoboys
» Aux barricades Posted by: vssmith
» RE: Le Terror? Posted by: nightgaunt
Here we go again
Posted by: Trazom on Feb 8, 2008 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Spending and tax relief targeted at the most hard-pressed, who can be counted on to spend any extra money they get and immediately boost consumption, is not a bad place to start. Other good, quick stimulus measures include expanding unemployment insurance, cutting payroll taxes for families of modest incomes, getting funds to cash-strapped state governments so they can continue to deliver services, and providing mortgage relief for low-income homeowners.

Like so many other articles in this vein the heart of the problems of America are entirely ignored. The above, taken from this article, precludes a relinquishment of ourselves to this financial/economic system. That is the way it is - so deal with it. Ce la vie. Thus, we are forced to deal with the aftermath, in the form of tax breaks, unemployment benefits and the like.

The more progressive (rational) approach would start out with asking ourselves a number of questions. Why does such a significant percentage of the poor and middle class need tax relief? Why it is a necessity nowadays to expand unemployment insurance? What are the driving forces behind these two questions? Why exactly are our states so cash strapped at a time when hundreds of billions of dollars are being spent in a sovereign nation in another part of the globe (with zero return to date on the investment I may add)? This cash-strapped problem is precisely why our property taxes continue to rise even as the local and state economies tank. Why do so many folks need mortgage relief? Why is housing so unnafordable? Why do the banks continue to reset rates even when they know full well a large percentage of these loans will default? Isn't this financial suicide? How important are the prices of energy and food in assessing the status of the poor and middle class? Why is this not even mentioned in this article? What about health insurance? Isn't this important?

There is no "squeeze" on the middle class. A squeeze implies pliability, that when stretched/pulled in one direction the object will still maintain form, albeit a slightly different one. What we are seeing and will see more of is death from a thousand cuts, or death due to the sting from a thousand bees. Pick your metaphor. Each wound inflicts damage, but the host organism can still function for the most part. Until the final blow, when the host expires ex-sanguination and perishes.

I ask myself the above questions, and in contemplating their origins, I cannot help but laugh (and cry) over the band-aid approach we insist on applying in America to all our woes. I can only surmise that this myopia of ours will be our downfall. Whatever we get we will have deserved.

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» Reagan's tax increases Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Here we go again Posted by: Raymonde
FDR got it RIGHT
Posted by: JSquercia on Feb 8, 2008 6:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Put people to WORK . BUILD stuff again . We were once the Arsenal of Democracy turning out
planes , ships and other instruments of war in awesome quantities . After the war we converted back to Domestic Production and continued to build things . Somewhere along the way we bought into Financialization of our economy where money is made by trading money . In the process we created new and exotic financial instruments such as Derivatives . I know what a derivative is from my Calculus class but don't have a clue about the financial instrument bearing the same name .
We need to reregulate the Banking and Finance Industries . We need to look at regulating Private equity and Hedge Funds whose unbridled greed helped create the mess and whose political influence then forces the Government to bail them out . A lot like the S&L scandle where many people got rich , including Neil Bush , but the rest of us were stuck with the bills .

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» RE: FDR got it RIGHT Posted by: nochicagoboys
The problem is you can not income tax the rich
Posted by: Rod on Feb 8, 2008 6:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They have the power and the money and lawyers to prevent this. I am not a huckabee fan, but he is right on a national sales tax. Tax consumption and then the rich pay more taxes. You can still social engineer by taxing different items at different rates. Food, medicine and housing at a lower rate, luxery items at a higher rate. Plus then your local drug dealer pays the tax when be buys the Black BMW and all the gold bling. You live here, and you pay the taxes. And I do not have that stack of income tax stuff to deal with.

Rod

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» yes! YOU (WE) CAN Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: yes! YOU (WE) CAN Posted by: kwalla
music to our ears
Posted by: solrev on Feb 8, 2008 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is great to hear some of the language in these comments, you better be careful you progressives may degenerate into us revolutionaries. Just in case you take that journey the revolution of 2012 is not about guillotines, it is a revolution of the mind. The first step is to realize that supply side economics is voodoo economics. The supply side policies of Reagen and Bush2 were complete failures. I am not sure that the massive deficits were the result of the policies or the unbridled spending was the result of the belief that the outcomes predicted by the voodoo was real, in any case the predicted outcomes are simply not true.
Shun anyone who you hear talk of supply side. A return to the deficit reduction policies of the Clinton years is a necessity. What is the real measure of wealth, credit, gold, money, possessions, buying power or some other economic label? For we revolutionaries the measure of wealth is leisure time. Remember our mantra life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and governments are established among men to secure these entitlements. We will tax you to provide universal healthcare (life) and defense (liberty) and we will increase your leisure time so that you may pursue your happiness. Start here with your revolution.

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74 months of growth? Bull S**t!!
Posted by: Steve_in_NH on Feb 8, 2008 8:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I call Bull S**t on that one. That is only true if you use the BLS's modified, stupefied, adjusted, substituted, consumer price index. The real rate of inflation is 5 to 7 percent higher that the BLS's cooked books show. If you readjust the GDP numbers with the real inflation number of 8 to 11 percent, you'll find we've hardly been out of recession in the last 10 years - since the dot bomb days.

Visit John Williams' Shadow Government Statistics if you want the real numbers.

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» Thanks, Steve Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Thanks, Steve Posted by: yellow
» Crap! Posted by: ReallyBearish
Bush has everything under control so have no fear.
Posted by: symcokid on Feb 8, 2008 8:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No need to worry, a while back Bush said, "There is a gray cloud hanging over our economy but the underpinning is good"! Hey, this guy's got it all figured out, he must mean as long as China continues to borrow us money.

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??????economy has expanded for 74 straight months?????? SAYS WHO!!!
Posted by: DrSuess on Feb 8, 2008 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know this is the "OFFICIAL" story- but I have a different story.

I am a computer programmer who gradded tests and cleaned houses during the "not a recession" times of 2003-2004.

Just after the war started all hiring in the US stopped. I was laid off a few weeks before, and I was in the unemployment office the day after the war started. I watched over the next few days as all the businesses in town (and nationwide) pulled their hiring ads and replaced them with "hiring suspended during the war" ads. These hiring ads did not reappear for a year and a half.

I remember in 1999 a hiring sign on the side of a grocery store- it was 5 feet high and 30 feet wide on the side of the building. When the war started, all the "now hiring" signs came down, and were replaced in the same shopping mall by "Going Out of Business" signs.

During the 2003-2004 period, I helped a local food pantry- and they had never seen so much business.

Food pantries are an inverse economic sign- the more business they do- the worse the economy. I was officially unemployed for 9 months. I ceased to be unemployed when my unemployment benefits ran out. However, it was almost a year later that I actually found stable work. During that period I would have taken a job at McDonalds- but they were not hiring. Having a computer programmer graded test (part time and temporary) and clean houses (when I can find houses to clean) is work- I guess. The test grading would last for a few weeks, and then I would be hunting again. The cleaning jobs were a "clean them when you find them" type situation.

If you look in small town America- things have been bad since the 1980's. Then the factories left (starting in the 1990's) and things became hard in the big cities.

Then in 2003 problems began for the middle class. But it was only us pesky programmers who had their jobs "outsourced". Now the problem has spread, and it is hitting a wider swath of people. My argument with this author is that things have NOT been booming since 2001. There was a bust in 2003-2004 that was "not a recession".

Every night during that period economists would come on the news and tell us
that "This is not a recession". I got so that I could not turn on any of the business shows because what my eyes told me did not agree with what the talking heads were saying.

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» Quit your whining Posted by: Knot_Rich
Let it fall
Posted by: zeofredo on Feb 8, 2008 9:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does anyone really fear a deep recession (read: depression) more than financiers? Sure, the common man and woman of middle-class America will feel the drop most dramatically, but I strongly believe this will be the best case scenario to break down a sick, counterproductive system of rule.

A lot of people will have a chance to straighten their lives around WHEN (not IF) the whole fiction of counter-inflation spending and economic resuscitation fails at last in the face of environmental degradation and civil unrest. The sooner it comes the better... it's already a critical situation.

I imagine that many of the corporate leaders and financiers are already well aware of the real danger facing the Empire: not terrorists but Saudi princes and Chinese debt holders! The spending on military action will soon result in dissolution of the infrastructure, and the domestic situation will deteriorate within moments after the first landmark crisis.

Never mind getting in touch with God... get close to the land again and grow some real food for a change! Learn to gather into a community again (rather than armed militias and walled compounds-- I know-- wishful thinking!) and get rid of all this garbage we thought was so necessary in our lives. This is going to be a valuable opportunity to develop into something more meaningful... unless we let our controllers destroy us by succumbing to their divisive hate-fueled advice.

I wonder how many of you out there see it like I do?

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» Yeah, I see it like you do. Posted by: tommy_slothrop
There Was No Recovery
Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 8, 2008 9:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was a debt binge with our nation eating it's seed corn (ask a farmer or gardener). To put it in city vernacular, we paid the Visa card with a cash advance on the MasterCard which was paid with a cash advance on the Discover Card. The warning signs have been flashing for years now and nobody with much of a voice has been saying anything.

Your parents routinely bought cars on 24 or 36 month loans. Most new buyers are taking 48-60 months to pay off their car and many are rolling over unpaid balances from previous purchases (being upside down) and Toyota is now offering a 7 year loan on new cars, not very wise for a depreciating asset. Others lease in order to keep up with the Joneses by buying a vehicle they really cannot afford.

Loaded with debt, tens of millions took second mortgages (home equity loans) to pay off the truckload of installment consumer debt they had accumulated, while others used it to finance the college education of their kids. Much of the equity was vapor, created by the housing bubble, and many are now trapped in houses they previously could afford to sell. Thanks to easy credit borrowed against the inflated value of their homes, they are now upside down on their house.

Meanwhile, the US Chamber of Commerce and it's members were exporting every US job as fast as possible, importing foreign workers on work visas to undercut US labor, hiring known illegals, breaking unions and flooding the US market with cheap goods from overseas. All the time, they are lobbying Congress for ever less stringent oversight, regulation and ever lower taxes on corporations.

The ever chintzy American consumer chased cheap goods even as it undercut the jobs of their neighbors and fellow citizens making a decent wage in the US- all to save a buck on a package of underwear or $2 on a shirt. Nobody asked why Nike, charging $150 a pair for a pair of basketball shoes, couldn't pay an American a living wage at that price level to make the shoes instead of in a Vietnamese sweatshop using child labor.

Well, now your neighbor has no job, has lost their house, isn't paying property or income taxes and is drawing unemployment and burning through their retirement fund (after early withdrawal penalties) just to stay off of the street. This is happening all over America and is getting steadily worse. On Wall Street, all those cash-outs of 140k and 403b funds generate lots of fees- so the pain isn't even obvious.

I could go on, but you get the idea. We have only seen the tip of the iceberg. BushCo is desperately trying to keep the house of cards from collapsing on it's watch. Mark my words, if it bottoms during the next administration the Republicans will blame it on whichever Democrat is unfortunate enough to be in the White House and millions of sheeple will buy the lie.

I hope you are liquid because the real pain is yet to come and will probably last quite a long season. Like a drunk waking up from a bender, America is just now figuring out what it has been doing the last 7 years. The other person in bed is way past Coyote Ugly and is a light sleeper.

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» RE: There Was No Recovery Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE:Button Up Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: There Was No Recovery Posted by: Trazom
A note from the real estate industry...
Posted by: aebartle on Feb 8, 2008 10:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm so depressed I can hardly blink.

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» RE: If only we had suicide booths Posted by: nightgaunt
Vote them all out every chance we get!
Posted by: Bic Pentameter on Feb 8, 2008 10:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are a few senators and representatives that are not enthralled to monied interests that may deserve to stay, but the rest should be removed - in every election. Eventually the point would be made.

We'll never do that, though

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» RE: No Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: No Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Won't matter anyway. Posted by: nightgaunt
Recovery my ass
Posted by: willymack on Feb 8, 2008 5:32 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Recovery from WHAT? Eight years of peace and prosperity in the Clinton years? Record job growth and REAL wealth increase? A balanced budget? Anybody who even THINKS voting "republican" will benefit him/her belongs in a rubber room at the laughing academy.

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Marooned deep in the heart of Texas
Posted by: Gaubladt on Feb 8, 2008 6:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An 80% drop in housing prices is the best thing that could ever happen. I would love to be able to go back and live im my native California. Houses purchased in 1970 for $37K, sold in 2007 for $730K. As things stand, I will never be able to go back and live there. To me, a bust is just a necessary and overdue adjustment.
Also, the Republican bankruptcy deform laws need to be repealed so that people who are at the bottom and who are without any other options can unburden themselves of all their debt and get a fresh start.

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"recessions"
Posted by: GEM-592 on Feb 8, 2008 7:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
are declared when the corptocracy feels the need to drive fear into consumers (aka real people) in order to further condition them into accepting whatever they offer at whatever price, hopefully with some good old debt to boot-which is where the real money is these days. The news of the pending recession seems to be always be saturated with two main messages :

(1) Recessions are 'cyclical'. Every once in a while, even in our modern, robust economy, people are naturally forced into abject poverty for the long-term good of our system. Almost sounds reasonable until you don't have the cash to keep the TV on in order to hear it, or to even keep food on the table for that matter.

(2) The 'US consumer' is the deciding factor, the presumption being that recession can be avoided only if people buy up all the junk. This 'buy up our stuff or else' message is purely fear-based, but has in the past been sufficiently simple to enjoy good sucess with the masses.

So what is one to do? If you have any dollars at all left, vote with them by pinching every penny possible, and directing as few of them to big companies as possible : no new cars, no new loans, no new unnecessaries until the big corporations stop whining about how tough it is out there ripping everyone off. Yes it might cost Jimmy his job at Wal-Mart, but if our economy really does hinge on the sucess of Wal-Mart, wh y feed the monster? If you have no money left, forget about your debts, save every penny, and for now keep it out of big banks. Pay cash when you buy, buy local whenever you can, and realize that most of what you hear in the news is engineered to get you to do the exact opposite. You'll only find power combatting the monster when you learn how to stop feeding it.

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» RE: "recessions" Posted by: yellow
» RE: "recessions" Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: "recessions" Posted by: yellow
Wanna end a recession?
Posted by: Gaubladt on Feb 8, 2008 7:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just get out of Iraq.

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» RE: Don't stop there! Posted by: nightgaunt
» RE: Don't stop there! Posted by: nightgaunt
Failure of Capitalism
Posted by: RedNeckRed on Feb 9, 2008 1:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There will be no lasting positive change until we get socialist elected to public office. Now is the time for a revolution of ideas. Time to stop capitalist fraud, power to the people!

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» RE: Failure of Capitalism Posted by: dockboy
Capitalism is in Crisis ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Feb 9, 2008 11:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Capitalism is in Crisis ...

And the reason is ever increasing 'real' energy prices. Without ever more energy the whole system stagnates. Oil has quintupled, natural gas and coal have quadrupled in the last 7 years and the prices are still going up.

Even all the efficiencies brought about by technology are being overcome by energy prices for the producers. Consumers are being hit even harder.

The correlation between energy consumption and GDP growth is undeniable, that is, it is one to one. GDP growth means more and more goods to more places at more speed. This is about to come to an end and with it the ever increasing consumption that is necessary to expand our money supply through debt based fractional banking.

There are only two scenarios that can play out under these circumstances. Either we build an economy based on sustainability or the theft of resources to sustain fewer and fewer people with the current system. Theft? ... usually means war ...

The problem is nearly all economists believe in the growth model either through Supply Side stimulation or Keynesian demand side stimulation. These theories are based on the belief that higher prices mean more supply when in fact energy resources are finite and the world is facing absolute limits of supply at any price low enough to sustain the monetary model the world now uses to operate.

It is called insolvency: "When an individual or organization can no longer meet its financial obligations with its lender or lenders as debts become due." There just won't be enough money in circulation to pay even the interest on the debt causing a further shrinkage of money and so on and so on in a vicious downward spiral.

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America's Future- Depression, Instability, Then Dictatorship
Posted by: Animal on Feb 10, 2008 8:10 PM   
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We're headed for a complete collapse of the economy, far worse than the 30's. This will usher in a period of social and political instability- increased crime, riots, domestic terrorism, possibly even a coup attempt. This will convince many that only a strong authoritarian leader or dictator can fix things. Around that time a charismatic demagogue will emerge, promising to restore order and prosperity if we only join him and surrender our individual rights. Once he's in power, the Constitution, or what of it Bush hasn't trashed, will essentially become a dead letter.

Anyone who's not familiar with who the Dominionists are should Google them, because I'm afraid they are the future of this country.

I certainly hope I'm wrong about this, but I don't see anything happening to convince me different.

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Chop off the Top
Posted by: rjbennett on Feb 14, 2008 9:09 PM   
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It seems that the necessary everyday living expenses are the cause of the current recession. When major oil companies are paying their top executives 10 million plus per annum and the corporate profits are in excess of 11 billion dollars, someone has to bear the cost of these excesses. That someone is each and everyone of us.When the Enron debacle occured we were hit with increases in our utility costs. With the oil companies gouging us blind, we have been hit with double the cost of getting to and from work, school, shoping and so forth. Insurance comapnies have always had a healthy bottom line yet they hide it in other areas.
The fact is all my household expenses have doubled since George Bush took office and my income as well as my spending power have declined.
Companies that provide services that are for the benefit of everyday living should not be able to get away with the excesses that they are.
We are all paying the price and it is not sustainable.
Until we take care of the heavyness on top, we'll never dig out of our hole on the bottom.

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MAKE NO MISTAKE.....A DEPRESSION WILL ENRICH THE RICH---
Posted by: think_reverse on Feb 16, 2008 11:02 AM   
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here's why-I sound like a conspiracy nut but whether I am or not has little to do with my message. But recession and depressions are planned.

But whether they are or not doesn't matter---who gets rich during downturns?? The rich. They buy up foreclosed properties for dirt prices, low stock market-cheaper shares to rises on recovery, -the rich come out every time. Rough financial times cause labor to become cheaper and more compliant. Who agrees? Taxes lowered more-more tax cuts for business in stimulus. If you want a person to spend money give the tax cuts Dubya gave to the rich eons ago to the poor and let it filter up when we buy something. The trickle down theory is 1st grade BS.

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Who should we kill?
Posted by: billwald on Feb 16, 2008 11:35 AM   
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During the French Revolution the people knew who the rich people were. We don't know who our owners are. The owners have gotten much smarter and don't attract attention to themselves. If there was a shooting revolution the most we could do would be to "get" the easily replaceable middle grade millionaires.

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the REALIST
Posted by: cgandpg on Feb 17, 2008 1:12 AM   
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The Collapse of DEBT is already happening. That was the main cause for the 1929 Depression. The last time before now that the U.S. had a Finance Economy was in the 1920's. We are experiencing a World-Wide Credit Crisis. Credit/Debt have been used as if it were hard earned money. As the Assets (Housing et al.) lose their value, dollars will be very scarse, just like in the Great Depression. The Bankers and their savior, the FED, has turned the population into DEBT SLAVES, or as Warren Buffett says, SERFS, PEASANTS who will most likely default and declare bankruptcy. I've met 21-year olds graduating from a Photography school who had $100,000 in student loans! The states are insolvent, the U.S. government is bankrupt. Everybody is going to default in order to wipe the slate clean. The former VENDOR-FINANCE SCHEME has broken down once the twin bubbles of HOUSING and CREDIT collapsed. The homeowners are no longer able to get their money "fix" from their Bedroom ATM Machines anymore. Their Free Lunch is over!

In the coming, unfolding DEPRESSION (some say it's very similar to the great one in 1837), the CONTRARIANS (who always go counter the sheeple who bought into the mania) avoided the Housing Mania completely -- and will do brilliantly in the Debt Collapse --being debt-free and liquid in the coming FIRE SALES of asset properties from one Coast to the other.

The "Grasshoppers" had their fun at the drunken punch bowl party and have a mountain of Debt to show for it. Now it's time for the "Ants" to reap the benefits of patience and prescience, because the best opportunities of a century will shortly be making themselves available.

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