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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

Can't Pay Your Mortgage? Trash Your House and Leave

By Scott Thill, AlterNet. Posted February 1, 2008.


As housing markets tank, "trash-outs" are on the rise, leaving owners, lenders and banks fighting over who should pay the clean-up bill.

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On the lookout for disturbing trends? Here's one for your pile: According to a recent article in Fortune, there has been a noticeable increase in not just fraud but arson that has kept pace with the housing depression. Professionals in the insurance and lending industry are bracing themselves for all manner of similar situations, as homeowners either trash or simply leave their trash lying around their houses, often taking off without even claiming their furniture. This is already a dirty problem in the housing business, with owners, lenders and banks having to figure out a way to stick each other with the check when tenants destroy their property on their way out the door. Woe is the person left behind to clean up the chaos.

"We just estimated a trashout yesterday where we're going to have to drain the pool," one Fontana, Calif., resident posted on AgentsOnline.Net, a resource and idea site for realtors, "and the stench from it when you enter the backyard is overwhelming. Then, of course, there are mosquitoes all over the top, and it's been sitting so long without chemicals that it's green on top and murky black on the bottom. We've already had to refuse one pool because of its really creepy condition and I'm not so sure about this one either. [I] just hope we don't find the previous homeowner at the bottom when we drain it."

"Vacant homes attract vandals and depress property values," explained Douglas Robinson, spokesman for NeighborWorks America, a nonprofit created by Congress to offer financial and technical support and training for community-based revitalization. "This negatively affects existing owners and reduces local property tax revenues. But very few homeowners walk away, although those who do believe that is their best option. Of course, trying to get a loan modification so that the payments are affordable is their best option."

As if it were that easy. Especially for those homeowners, including those with good and bad credit, who have seen the light at the end of our current economic crisis only to decide there isn't a house in it. In fact, one could almost see the Wall Street Journal frown with disapproval upon reading the title of their December 2007 piece, "Now Even Borrowers With Good Credit Pose Risks." But the title no doubt was influenced by the comments of Bank of America CEO Kenneth Lewis in the piece itself. It seems that Lewis, whose company recently bought the housing meltdown's poster boy for bad lending, Countrywide, for $4 billion in stock, nevertheless feels confounded that customers of questionable loans would simply choose to abandon ship, er, house. "There's been a change in social attitudes toward default," Mr. Lewis told the Journal. "We're seeing people who are current on their credit cards but are defaulting on their mortgages. I'm astonished that people would walk away from their homes." While Lewis may scratch his head in disbelief, employees of the bank Wachovia have an explanation that might work for him: Homeowners have crunched the numbers and decided their houses are worth less than their mortgages. According to a recent conference call, many of Wachovia's current losses in California are originating not from subprime buyers fallen on financial hardship, but from homeowners who can pay their cleverly structured loans but are just choosing a different fate. "They've been from people that have otherwise had the capacity to pay," a Wachovia spokesperson said on the call, "but have basically just decided not to, because they feel like they've lost equity, value in their properties. It's hard to know right now, but we may have seen somewhat of an acceleration problem … as people have reached that conclusion."

But that is what things usually do when you drive them off a cliff: Accelerate, ever faster. The open secret about the current housing crisis is that it is almost wholly built upon debt, which is to say the opposite of money. Everyone owes everyone: American banks borrow money from overseas, structure bizarre loans at home for Americans, which are then sliced and diced into securities and sold back to the international debt markets. The whole thing is a feedback loop made of bills needing to be paid. The best-kept secret of the crisis, however, is that homeowners at the mercy of those greedy banks and lenders -- including Countrywide CEO Angelo Mozilo, who sold off his stock before the crisis to net a cool $290 million while the company's value shrank to practically nothing -- are bailing out and leaving the banks and lenders to sort out the mess of past-due notices themselves.


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See more stories tagged with: economy, debt, lending crisis, trash-outs, foreclosures

Scott Thill runs the online mag Morphizm.com. His writing has appeared on Salon, XLR8R, All Music Guide, Wired and others.

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Duh. The persom most directly responsible for damage holds the most liability.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 1, 2008 1:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure, a bank can present terms that are appealing to the willfully (or not) financially ignorant. And those ignoramuses can obtain loans that they may or may not qualify for, if the lender doesn't check their actual employment history/income level.

Wanton destruction is wanton destruction. No matter how you slice it. Destruction born of greed is still greedy destruction.

Actions have consequences. Earth to whomsoever....

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» This is a class issue... Posted by: buffeliscious
» No, of course not! Posted by: J_Mo
» RE: Duh. Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Duh. Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Duh. Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Duh. Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Duh. Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Duh. Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Duh. Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Duh. Posted by: ankhet
» RE: "normal rules of society" Posted by: pangolin
» Fraud is also just plain fraud. Posted by: ABetterFuture
But they trashed my life?
Posted by: rjs on Feb 1, 2008 1:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No person would be able to rightfully argue that destroying property is the answer. But I would suggest that it is understandable. The banks have have seriously brought on their own issues by the greed in which they operate. Both are equally guilty. Both the bank and the consumer. Both equally lied to each other and themselves in many cases. Both were equally greedy with putting their wants above their means. I would suppose that while damage must be paid for, that in reality, the damage runs much deeper than the wrecked lives and possessions, just as the greed that created it does.


Both learn the hard way.
--rjs

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: But they trashed my life? Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: But they trashed my life? Posted by: peacefullaim
» Weapons of the weak Posted by: andabottleof_rum
Just Desserts
Posted by: elt on Feb 1, 2008 2:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Banks (and all other related corporations) deserve what they get. They've been screwing the american people for so long it's a wonder it's taken this long for some backlash to occur. I say, if you're going to pack up and leave, make sure you do everything possible to render the place completely unlivable for decades to come. Serves 'em right. Anyone who profits off of someone else's misfortune deserves to be lined up against the wall and shot. Also, that would probably make a huge dent in the overpopulation problem, too. Just a thought.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Just Desserts Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Just Desserts Posted by: mejsmith
» RE: Just Desserts Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Just Desserts Posted by: Astroboy
» RE: Just Desserts Posted by: Trazom
» Who's Ox is Gored? Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Banks don't want foreclosure Posted by: BCcovers
» Banks are out of the picture Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: Banks don't want foreclosure Posted by: nherkowitz
» Same here. Posted by: J_Mo
Buying Opportunity
Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 1, 2008 2:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I stayed out of the vastly overinflated housing market and know, like any prudent observer, that they also overbuilt for many markets. Too many houses, too big for the market at prices that exceeded the ability of the local wage base to sustain. What that tells me is that in many markets prices will come down- way down and all the bail-outs in the world will not change that fact.

The business people are always running their mouths about how perfect the market is until they get in trouble. I, for one, hope they take a massive sucker punch that deflates the hugely overpriced stock on the market. Then I, with my undamaged credit, will buy on the cheap. I don't want to see anybody bailed out because they were all greedy- from the buyers through the sellers to the realtors and the loan originators.

It's time for the social climbing crowd to begin to live within their means and maybe that will clear their head the next time they decide to support politicians and policies that are against consumers and ordinary people. Pull your kid out of private school, terminate the lease on your gas-hog Suburban, rent a small house or apartment and start to live within your means.

Maybe the next time a union organizer approaches you might actually listen for a change, grow a backbone and do some good for yourself and your community. The next time you vote, maybe you will support candidates concerned with the real issues of working people instead of Neo-Con hot button BS. The next time you buy a house, maybe you will buy something more reasonable.

Meanwhile, this progressive that has been living within his means will watch the real estate market continue to deflate and buy some nice property on the cheap after the dust has settled. Maybe I'll be your landlord.

How do you like your NeoCon economics now?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Buying Opportunity Posted by: bitsfick
» RE: Excellent "Analysis" Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Buying Opportunity Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Buying Opportunity Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Buying Opportunity Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Buying Opportunity Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Buying Opportunity Posted by: NoPCZone
» Living beyond the means Posted by: naturalbornsolutions
» RE: Buying Opportunity Posted by: Sushi
like companies do...
Posted by: bluepilgrim on Feb 1, 2008 3:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The insurance companies have been playing a similar game for some time. If you get in an auto accident they pay only 'book value', which might be quite a bit less than the individual car is worth, with recent repairs, condition, and all, or less than what it would cost to replace it.

Corporations will let people die because it's cheaper to pay the penalties than make the workplace safe.

One might say these people are just taking the capitalist/corporate view.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Too bad this country is filled with dysfunctional sick puppies
Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 1, 2008 4:13 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Their concerns about "losing" their guns, "abortions" going up, god, gays, etc ... and other hot button social issues which has no effect on them is what made it easier for banks and lenders to keep ripping them off. Gubbmint happily bails them out and when that's not enough, they'll turn to money from foreign governments who will in turn slowly take over the country's ownership. So much for an "ownership" society !

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 1, 2008 4:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The mortgage crisis is the latest example of calculated, premeditated management by fear and it isn't going to stop until we stop it.

Government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Direct Democracy

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» RE: Terrorist: HeKnew Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Terrorist. You said it! Posted by: Cathyc
» "The Money Masters" Link Posted by: JoAnne
from 1990-97, the UK government let 500,000 families lose their homes because of negative equity
Posted by: Suzon on Feb 1, 2008 4:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That affected an estimated 1.2 million people in a population of about 60 million. The UK government (which had actively encouraged home ownership) did nothing whatsoever for those families.

[Correction: The government did nothing to help them keep the homes they had been encouraged to buy (often their previously secure council flat), but they did put families into wretched B&B accommodation.]

During the same period the 157,000 wealthiest families in the UK received up to £21 billion in subsidies.

Source: Kevin Cahill's Who Owns Britain (2001).

I never read about anyone in the UK trashing their home before it was repossessed. It seems to me that trashing a home would be, in many cases, an indication of mental health. Most people tend to blame themselves or turn to drugs and alcohol.

Maybe the American monarchistic "haves and have-mores" will pause for a moment to wonder what other kind of "acting out" they might be in for.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The banks and crooks in the financial markets deserve it.
Posted by: leland61 on Feb 1, 2008 5:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If anyone wonders where people got the idea of leaving a bad investment and letting someone else clean up the mess. Look at corporate America. They have been doing it for a century.

I was born and raised in Michigan, the rust belt, where abandoned factories litter the landscape along with their polluted deposits left for someone else to clean up.

Hello!!! This practice has been going on by the monied elite as long as anyone can possibly remember. Now the working classes are gettng the idea. Follow the behavior of the rich and psychotic. Just dump your shit and let someone else worry about it.

There should be jail sentences in the future for a lot of these rich criminals. It won't happen because this country is run for them and by them. The last 8 years could not possibly make that any clearer for those not willfully blind.

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» "The Money Masters" link Posted by: JoAnne
Debt is Not The Problem - It's The Timing
Posted by: opmoc on Feb 1, 2008 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The vast majority of people who took out mortgages since WWII are considerably better off financially than those who had no debt and rented. This is despite times of both very high inflation and very high interests rates as well as the opposite.

However the timing is critical - get it wrong by just a few years and you may well be financially wasted.

The reason is that there is a correlation between average house prices and average wages which varies tremendously over time. The trend is only your friend in the short term.

The last big house price crash in the UK occurred around 1989 and it took 4 years for prices to bottom out. Taking into account the high inflation at the time, prices fell in real terms by more than one half. The fall now could be even greater, and take longer to recover as house prices are now over 6 times average wages. Expect them to fall to around 3 times average wages.

However, history doesn't always repeat itself, and selling your house now may not be a good idea, despite the prospect that it will likely continue to fall in value for the next few years.

The reason is, that it is entirely possible that the financial system as a whole could totally crash - with banks going bust. If you sell your house and rent - how can you be sure that the bank where you put any capital will not go bust and take all your money with it?

At the end of the day houses aren't investments but homes to live in and when things get tough you are usually better off, battenning down the hatches and weathering the storm.

Things will eventually get better.

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Save economy Stop foreclosure costing 150,000 as below
Posted by: Adi on Feb 1, 2008 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Save economy Stop foreclosure (costing about 50,000 each to borrower, lender, and The Balance Economy total estimated loss 150,000 each foreclosure) which is destroying economy and welfare of people; Use technology to reduce costs & interest rates and let market forces with help of Govt thru FHA, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, minimize regulations, who basically cover risks and arrange financing and arrange interest rates of below 5 percent in line with Treasury Rate, Fed Rate and charge risk based insurance from poor credit and thus make mortgage affordable to all. And property values will stabilize Estimated national loss due to foreclosures for 8 million homes @ 150,000 each is 1 (One) trillion dollars

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The Bush League
Posted by: Cybershaman on Feb 1, 2008 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush League solution to this has been to load Freddie and Fannie up with these bad debts. That way they can destroy these two institutions, from the inside, then 'privitize' them (basically selling them, on the cheap, to one of their financial masters). That has been the pattern for decades.

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Is it any wonder...
Posted by: ot on Feb 1, 2008 7:08 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that the same people who were too stupid to understand the terms and potential consequences when they signed on the dotted line for that mortgage would also sink to criminal behavior to assuage their self-imposed misfortune?

...that mean-spirited, self-hating liberals would crawl out of the wood work to rationalize this type of criminal behavior on behalf of these botton-feeders in the name of corporate "greed"?

No wonder at all.

That is why these people are at the bottom and will stay that way, mere fodder for the rest of us to profit from.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Is it any wonder... Posted by: opmoc
» RE: Is it any wonder... Posted by: grn1
» RE: Is it any wonder... Posted by: billwald
» RE: Is it any wonder... only to you Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Is it any wonder... Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: The real stupid people... Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
more real estate dirt
Posted by: olympia43 on Feb 1, 2008 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Humane Societies and other groups are also dealing with large numbers of pets who are simply locked in the house and left when the people leave. Recently our Humane Society took possession of six dogs who had been abandoned to starve when the house was vacated. These six were the survivors, some had already starved.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» You're kidding right? Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: You're kidding right? Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: more real estate dirt Posted by: data23
» RE: more real estate dirt Posted by: Scientz
» RE: more real estate dirt Posted by: Libsrule
» RE: more real estate dirt Posted by: Scientz
» RE: more real estate dirt Posted by: Chromedome2000
» RE: more real estate dirt Posted by: Scientz
» RE: more real estate dirt Posted by: SaraCole
» RE: more real estate dirt Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: more real estate dirt Posted by: Scientz
» RE: more real estate dirt Posted by: SaraCole
» RE: more real estate dirt Posted by: data23
» HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Posted by: Scientz
» RE: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Posted by: Moira61
» RE: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Posted by: Scientz
» RE: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Posted by: Moira61
» RE: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Posted by: Scientz
» Hey Scientz Posted by: Rapunzel
» RE: Hey Scientz Posted by: Scientz
» RE: more real estate dirt Posted by: srimbael
It's the only power people have....
Posted by: stina723 on Feb 1, 2008 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After reading "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein, I now better understand what is happening to this world from an economic standpoint. Disobediance is the one of the only tools left for the people. Until Bush sends in Blackwater anyway...
Hey big banks and shady mortgage lending companies - what goes around comes around.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Klein is full of it Posted by: Ambrose Pare
» RE: Klein is full of it Posted by: Morphizm
Not the first time we've been through this
Posted by: SteveO on Feb 1, 2008 7:44 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the second time within a generation we've done this to ourselves. Remember the 1989 housing crash and the S&L crisis? It was caused by the same thing except on a smaller scale. Property values were inflated and questionable loans were made to well connected people to buy these properties.

We didn't learn a thing from the pain we had then.

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» "done this to ourselves" Posted by: kww355
Simply put, it's revenge
Posted by: scryberwitch on Feb 1, 2008 7:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To me it's crystal clear - retreating populations would do this to their towns and crops ahead of invading forces. Whether you agree with it or not, the rationalization is, "I've spent so much money on this place, only to have it all taken from me and my life ruined. I'm not going to leave anything of value - this bank/lender will not make a penny of profit off this property after I'm evicted."

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A totally different world
Posted by: kungfoofighterx on Feb 1, 2008 7:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lots of people like to give the weather the storm advice. If this is some economic storm it may leave you jobless, in a dead city, with a nice worthless home on the wrong side of town if you try to weather it. To survive this future a house will be a problem not a solution, unless it’s a rental. People are going to have to migrate like American Indians following the buffalo to find fun jobs or to keep homes with value. Tack on all the damn fees and forget it. It’s not worth it. All that debt for some crapy home that’s going to fall apart because it was built with every possible corner cut. People are scraping their damn homes like hunter gathers leaving a camp site. Time to move on were the berries are thick on the vines and the game is fat. I look at the default rates and its like F this. Morally and ethically I refuse to pay somebody those kind of rates. Maybe that’s another reason people trash their places. Or maybe the bank gave the mortgage to a 19 year old who had a good year selling cars or had a trust fund from an untimely death. Party hard and bolt.
Mortgages are some creepy old world thing to me. What are the prospects of having a job or three jobs with decent pay for as long as a mortgage? What is the average amount of time people should expect to be unemployed during their mortgage? Let’s say I have a home and we paid it off after 40 years, but we have little in the way anything else because we had to sink it into our home to keep it from falling apart and paying all of the taxes on it and cover family medical bills when we didn’t have insurance during unfortunate double job change overs while my spouse was going back to school to get that third degree because the job sectors in our city changes so rapidly a degree is only good for at best 10 years and it takes 6 to pay it off not to mention the times I had to go back to school to get a new degree. Most jobs don’t seem to last more than 4 years. We did have some 401K money, but we had to cash it in to go back to school to keep our earning levels high enough so our kids could have a decent start. So now I reverse mortgage it to pay for my retirement and medical costs. My kids get nothing and the cycle of wealth is broken. Modern feudalism. I feel safer investing in things that aren’t taxed like Roth IRAs.

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» RE: A totally different world Posted by: peacefullaim
Insider Trading Anyone
Posted by: JSquercia on Feb 1, 2008 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The head of Countrywide cashed his stock just before the collapse sure as hell sounds like Insider trading to me .It certainly seems as if he took advantage of his insider knowledge to get out of town just ahead of the Sheriff Sadly I expect NOTHING will be done to him . I myself would suggest drawing and quartering

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Our 500 year crisis
Posted by: PaulK on Feb 1, 2008 8:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have three problems.

First, we are infested with crooks who will rip us off bigtime. That's always true.

Second, we are infested with a government that doesn't care if the country crashes and burns. That can possibly be partially fixed with honest elections such as with the choice method of proportional representation, which inherently fights campaign bribery.

Third, we are a nation of stooges waiting to be fleeced. We buy high in the stock market and sell at the bottoms of panics. Then we pay outrageous prices for houses, mortgaging half our lives away for the houses, and abandon the houses when the market tanks. Whole cities such as Lost Wages have been built on this madness. I'm sure we could invest in tulip bulbs with the same passion.

I wish that our schools educated all of our kids to be good citizens by running speculations: stock market speculations (based on real live data), housing bubbles (same) and government spending sprees (real live data from Argentina, from Brazil, from our own country).

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It's only a matter of time
Posted by: blue3zero on Feb 1, 2008 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before the banking/credit card industries forces the bought and paid for members of congress to impose the death penalty on people who walk away from their homes. I'd imagine the old debtors prison will be making a comeback soon.

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» RE: It's only a matter of time Posted by: willymack
The crooks will be always with us
Posted by: redfrog on Feb 1, 2008 9:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and that does not excuse us from steering by our own lights. If I lose my home, I will leave it immaculate. This will have nothing to do with my anger or despair. I am the only one I have to answer to, the only one who will ever have to live with those answers.

These are frightening times and I don't like being afraid or having to face some of the attitudes or behaviors of others who are afraid but none of this touches who any of us are at core. Some of us are not good people, but most of us are.

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Those poor confused rich white males
Posted by: DaBear on Feb 1, 2008 9:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sick to death of this crap. The premise of the article insists upon the assumption that workouts are possible, if not preferable to walking away. The REALITY is people aren't walking away, they're being FORCED to walk away because "workouts" aren't rational let alone reasonable. COuntrywide and B of A don't want a glut of dead properties? Yeah, tell that to the foreclosure guy for Countrywide who bragged to me in the park the other day about how he could "kick 400 people out of their houses in a day." Tell that to the workout negotiator for Countrywide who swears the company is going extinct fast because they can't offer workouts that people can afford.

The assumption that there are solutions is BULLSHIT. It is a LIE. The only solutions, like those offered by Barbara Boxer and Operation Hope, are not being considered let alone entering the thoughts of the money addled ruling class asshats that created, caused and are getting away scott-free with the problem and chaos THEY perpetrated.

Neither B of A nor Countrywide were reasonable with my family. We live in a campground (every 14 days we move to the next one) with a $70K annual income. Why? Because their "workouts" were only $250 less a month than the overpriced loans were originally. Because some rich prick mortgage broker told us (he LIED) the subprime was all we "qualified" for (another LIE). We found out too late. The WGA strike hit and BOOM. God bless 'Merkuh.

Anytime a rich guy makes an excuse, you can count on it being some shade of a LIE. That's who they are... just like their hero, the Chimp-Emperor.

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» Interesting... Posted by: buffeliscious
» RE: Interesting... Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Interesting... Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Interesting... Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Interesting... Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Interesting... Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Interesting... Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Interesting... Posted by: waxman
» RE: Interesting... Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Interesting... Posted by: mejsmith
» Give it up, EncinoM... Posted by: fsuthai
» RE: Interesting... Posted by: mejsmith
» Do NOT insult CHIMPS! Posted by: veggiegrrrl
It' the contractors that want and revel in this.
Posted by: Landbaron on Feb 1, 2008 9:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They need the work now and love it when this happens. So don't feed the non pre-screened contractors 'cos if they're not pre-screened they're probably "licensed con artists" and know all the tricks they can get away with to take advantage of consumers.

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Karma Sacramento?
Posted by: Gravitas on Feb 1, 2008 10:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't say I feel sorry for the banks over the trashed homes! But then, I no longer feel sorry for Marie Antoinette either!

Sac is one of the hardest hit cities! Well, from what I saw of the nasty, evils that when on in Sac when I lived there, all I can ask is karma Sac............

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» RE: Karma Sacramento? Posted by: heid
Serial Homeowners Deserve This
Posted by: HistArch on Feb 1, 2008 10:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is exactly what can be expected in a world where 90% of everything that's made is in the trash within 6 months.

"We strongly encourage homeowners facing a financial crisis to stay in close touch with the lender holding the mortgage on their home"- screw that!!! If you have been brainwashed into thinking that a house is an investment rather than a home, you should pull out as soon as you see your investment going down. Buy low and sell dear- when you see your bankroll going down, pull out.

This is what happens when bankers, politicians, and fellow Americans consider a house a commodity. The place where you live is your home, not an asset, a money-making venture, or a savings account. Forget what the Wall Street Nostradamus' tell you- your home is where your heart is. Would you sell your heart, your family, your community? If so, you deserve exactly what you get; a lifetime of commodified reality that doesn't jibe with the touchy-feelie world we actually live in. The government or banks or other financial institutions shouldn't lift a finger to help serial homeowners out and we shouldn't lift a finger to help any of those companies who risked it on sketchy repackaged loans. If they were smart they would have enough investments to stay afloat for the long haul.

For all of you who are made a poor decision and live in an overpriced crackerbox, enjoy the fall. Remember, that over time your investments should go up and if you stick with it long enough you should be fine. Next time use your heart as well as your head.

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» Good point. Thank you. Posted by: maxpayne
» Victims of deceipt by the lenders... Posted by: buffeliscious
When banks and lenders can keep misusing taxpayer money to lobby the pols,
Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 1, 2008 10:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they could instead use that money to clean up the mess they caused by lying to their customers instead of actually being honest with them if they cared for a good business. As much as I'm against defamation of property, the banks and lenders drove them to it. It's pathetic enough that the US government will continue to give the banks and lenders "free" handouts of our taxpayer money and if that's not enough, they'll rely on foreign governments, usually controversial ones like China, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, etc ... to "bail" them out. At this rate, this country will face the same hell with those countries that customers face with the crooked banks and lenders. So much for "ownership" society.

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Scorched earth, baby. Scorched Earth.
Posted by: Merum on Feb 1, 2008 10:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see a lot of idiots bloviating in this thread about how the consumer got themselves into this mess with their "social climbing ways" and their financial ignorance. I see them smugly state that they will swoop in and "buy on the cheap" after people's lives have been devastated.

Well, to a certain extent, consumers did contribute to their own ruin. However, the system was supposed to work in such a way to protect people from making purchases they can't afford in the first place. And when you say you'll come in and buy on the cheap afterwards, well, you're no better than the Neocons that made this mess, profiting from the misfortune of others. That's very American of you.

It's easy to sit and smugly crow about "personal responsibility", but it misses the larger point. Corporate interests and the political shitbags that serve them have for years worked to take away the ability of the average consumer to make the very decisions that would keep them out of debt hell, because that very debt is another tool of the slavers to keep you in line.

At the same time, through their work on capitol hill, they have taken away all the safety nets that would allow people who got ensnared in the system to pull themselves up and dust themselves off. Bankruptcy laws have been gutted and modified to the extent that the tool is now basically useless, unless of course you happen to be a corporation, in which case you can still parachute out when your schemes backfire. Lenders have been deregulated to remove the checks and balances that were supposed to protect people from being taken advantage of. Usury laws have been changed to allow lenders to charge outrageous interest rates to desperate people who shouldn't be able to borrow more money, because it will just put them in deeper. Why? So that the monied few can make more and more.

It's no accident that personal finance is not taught in our public schools as part of core curriculum. It's no accident that people are constantly fed the notion that consumption and greed are good things, that their friends will think less of them if they don't have the right house, the right car, the latest iPod and the latest fashion.

It's no accident that the only candidates you get to hear about are the ones who will continue to support the rape and pillage of the American public. To educate people is counter to their own interest, which is to make as much money and accumulate as much power as possible.

People who say it's amoral for these people to fight back with what seems to be the only weapon available to them, have been fooled. "Social norms" are just more bullshit you've been fed to make you behave in the way that benefits the profit-mongers the most. Quietly turning over your possessions because you've been duped into financial ruin is stupid.

Time for a role reversal. Get what you can out of what you've got, and leave scorched earth behind. Make sure the corps get shafted on your way out. Leave them nothing, because they'll do the same to you.

Remember, when you ain't got nothin, you got nothin to lose.

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"personal responsibility"
Posted by: Crazy H on Feb 1, 2008 11:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the wingnut posters above have once again demonstrated: the right-wing definition of "personal responsibility" is "it's someone else's responsibility."

Never the fault of those in power, never the fault of the rich who take advantage of the poor ("mere fodder for the rest of us to profit from"), never their own greed, never their fervent belief that deregulation is a good thing.

And most especially, never their own damn fault when the house of cards they built comes crashing down around them.

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» RE: "personal responsibility" Posted by: buffeliscious
» RE: "personal responsibility" Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: "personal responsibility" Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: "personal responsibility" Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: "personal responsibility" Posted by: mejsmith
» Oh, stop it !!! Posted by: kww355
» RE: "personal responsibility" Posted by: SaraCole
» RE: Personal Responsibility Goes Both Ways Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
IS ANYONE REALLY SURPRISED ?
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 1, 2008 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It shoud be safe for people to assume a level of honesty when they deal with professionals. We rely on people to be what they present themselves to be. Well, I guess not. Why would losing a home under current circumstances inspire a person to have a conscience? The people who offered the loan didn't. It's sad but I do understand. The mortgage isn't the only debt these people walk away from. They just don't care anymore. Thanks, ANNA

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It is just mortgages, it's credit cards also
Posted by: harpy on Feb 1, 2008 2:32 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When you've had cards for ten or so years, and now that the industry is deregulated, the card companies - especially Bank of America and Chase - are having a party on their cardholders by raising rates to 25 - 30% on past purchases when there have been no late payments, no missed payments, and no over limits. Why? Because they know you have a balance that you can't pay off immediately, you've made your payments as promised, and so they raise the rate from a low, less than 10% (not an introductory teaser rate, a rate you earned because you paid everything on time!) to the highest they can legally get away with, and they know the people that pay their bills don't want to default and ruin their credit. For them it's legal theft, sure they give you notice but your only option is to close the account and pay off the card. With this economy (after all, most people used the cards for necessities, not luxuries) you really need something to fall back on and so you really get screwed because you just can't afford to close the account. Pay it off? If you could have paid it off, you wouldn't have needed it to begin with!

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» RE: Organize a mass default. Posted by: pangolin
"Keep in touch with your lender"!
Posted by: lenox on Feb 1, 2008 3:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First you have to locate the current owner of your mortgage. Ours was sold at least 4 times; we never received notice re: where to send the mortgage payment. After 3 months we located the current thieves, they'd been sending late payment notices to an address in Chicago. We lived in Florida. Yes indeed, "people are smart" as DiTech repeats on their ads. DiTech, it turns out is partial owner of the deceptively written and usurious debt we own. The debt that is designed to never, ever be paid off. The debt that DiTech and Cerberus and GMAC and who knows how many other hedge funds and mortgage "brokers" and financial institutions foisted upon us. In my case, we traded a fair and reasonable fixed rate mortgage to flee the hell that was a gated suburban prison. Now the bastards own us, $40,000 pre-payment penalty and all. I am SO ready for a revolution.

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Wake up, Slaves! The real criminals live in the White House!!!
Posted by: fsuthai on Feb 1, 2008 5:37 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see a lot of you talking about "The rule of law" and avoidance of 'anarchy' but when the laws have been structured to constantly favor the 'ruling elite', when the Chief Executive (the Texas turd) and his evil twin ('Darth Chaney') are the biggest law breakers in the nation, when scum CEOs like Angelo Mozilo pocket $290 MILLION as they walk away from a financial crisis, when Boards of Directors of corrupt corporations hire such scum for grossly inflated salaries & stock option pkgs. that make a mockery of 'fair wages', when the Courts are packed with inept, on-the-take political appointees that always rule in favor of the rich & 'status quo', when Congressional representatives of the people are corporate-owned and vote to restrict Constitutional Rights, start & fund illegal wars, spy on & arrest anyone that protests these illegal actions, refuse to IMPEACH the dictators, when the previously trusted media has sold out to their corporate owners and never report the truth, suppress any support for honest politicians that want to restore our Constitutional Republic, then it is time for 'we the people' to revolt again. The American people are 'prisoners of war' (the War on Terrorists, the War on Drugs, the War on crime [poor people's crimes; not corporate crime, or white collar crime, or military/industrial crime, ad nausium) and it is our DUTY to try to escape this fascist takeover of our country and subjugation by the 'ruling elite' that acknowledge no laws applying to their actions!

The current media controlled Presidential election process is a charade to distract, divide, and continue the conquest of America! It is time for the 2nd American Revolution and I hope that it can be accomplished without violence. Our two party, corporate funded 'purchase' of the White House and Congress must be changed. I wanted Kucinich but he was forced out early, as were a few other honest candidates. The only one remaining that has a chance in hell to make some meaningful change is Dr. Ron Paul.

Anyone who votes for the MSM candidates, ANY of the media endorsed candidates, is a 'status quo' slave undeserving of the freedoms you were born with but are rapidly losing!

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No Excuse to Destroy a Home, But Just How Stupid and Greedy Are the Lenders?
Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 1, 2008 6:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The run-up in housing prices has far exceeded the ability of the average American to pay. At one time, housing prices were not to exceed three times a borrowers income, then later this increased to five times or more. When the flippers and speculators later came into the market, the rising values just went up at an insane pace. Bottom line, it is low class to deliberately trash a home, but when banks and lenders don't even check job and credit histories, what do you expect will happen? There has always been an element in society that does not engage in the best set of behaviors. Borrowers have always known to be careful. But, in the end, if greed got the better of them (the banks and lenders), and the chance for a quick profit was seized in a rapidly escalating market, whose fault is it anyway? No excuse to destroy a home, but, in the end, just how stupid and greedy are the lenders of sub-prime and foolish lending practices? Time to pay the piper!

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» RE: No Excuse: Sez you. Posted by: pangolin
If it's good for the goose.....
Posted by: pangolin on Feb 1, 2008 10:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's good for the gander.

The usurious banks have no problem driving you personally into homelessness if that's what it takes to get their cash. As we all know there is no such thing as a corporate CEO who accepts personally the responsibility for the failure of his corporation or the loss of thousands of jobs. They all walk away with millions in their pockets when they trash a company for their own personal gain.

People facing ruin and homelessness feel they have no moral responsibility to protect the financial interests of the wealthy. When I was working property management evicted renters would do things like hit every panel of drywall with a hammer, cut electrical wires inside the walls, pour liquids like milk and beer into carpets, pour dry rice into the drains, break the windows and doors and move out. Of course some people would get really mean about it but that's another story.

The problem with having no social contract is that people on the way down have the energy to take others with them. This is the situation that is causing problems in Kenya right now. With nothing left to lose the poor have no investment in a stable future.

A society is as good as it treats the least of it's members. By that standard the US is a sewer.

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True story
Posted by: stinkpiggy on Feb 2, 2008 12:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I married a Brazilian, bought a house in Maine in hopes of bringing her kids up in a place they'd have to learn English. Ten G's down payment for straight mortgage and twenty for improvements. That was 2001.
She got her green card in January, 2004 and left me in July with debts from a failed attempt at business-around forty grand-and a small, but barely payable mortgage. Try paying bills with no job. By the time I got one, in March of 2005, I was behind enough on EVERYTHING to be unable to maintain payments to two cards that were charged off and to be struggling to get on top of the mortgage and remaining bills till today. She returned to Massachusetts, where I'd found her, hired an attorney and filed for divorce after getting her financial affairs straightened out(since she was unburdened-as in "why should I pay my share? I don't live there anymore!"- by her fiduciary obligation as co-signer on the mortgage, she could earn and save as I couldn't). The attorney threatened to grind me into chutney through attrition in court. The forty thou was a loan from my sister to set the woman up in the food business, so the judge decreed that she should get the acreage we owned(paid for, natch)and I would have the house with its imaginary value above what was owed the bank as recompense for what she technically owed my sister. The catch was that I was to have her name removed from the mortgage in short order and all would go their merry ways. My mangled credit score made that downright impossible. Even though I had paid the mortgage solo for the past two years, I get no break on that score.
Last November, the judge gave me til May of this year to get her name off, after which I will be ordered to sell the house. Imagine that! In THIS market. Now I'm faced with having to sell the thing for less than what I owe. I imagine I could, if I wished, try for sale by owner for the amount that would resolve all the problems and simply report back to the judge occasionally that no solid prospects have yet appeared. If I am ordered to sell at a loss, I won't hesitate to walk away from it, after stripping it of anything worth selling, letting them rip her credit score to shreds as well. I forgot to mention that, since her name is still on the mortgage, whenever I've come up short on money to pay bills, the mortgage is last to get paid, assuring her score takes the hit, too.
In other words, I can sympathize with many who are going through this problem in its manifest forms. Some may have brought it upon themselves, but this economic system is basically castigatingly parasitic, by which I mean that when you are down, everyone lines up to kick you and keep you down. The feeding frenzy that prevails in the market for foreclosures and selling charged off accounts encourages a whole culture of vultures to feed on the weak and principled, leaving the victims with few alternatives, if any, to save a modicum of net worth allowing anything remotely resembling a normal life.
I have thus become very hardened. I probably will, if the worst comes to pass, never own another piece of property. I'm way to old to dig my way out of this, so I will just do what I can to survive and thrive as best I can. If I must commit crimes to survive, I won't hesitate. I have no expectation at all of surcease from this criminal economic system I have now learned has been and probably always will be the norm. That a significant proportion of the population seeking redress of everyday problems through criminal means is in overwhelming superiority to those law-abiding citizens is now no surprise at all to me. I join their ranks in protest, but with full knowledge that, even in this supposedly law-driven society, it is cost-effective for law enforcement entities to ignore many crimes, thus allowing me and others to live, vultures in our own rights.
How else do you think suicide by cop came about? Is the situation really that different?

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» RE: True story Posted by: Morphizm
Hey, look
Posted by: rwday@cox.net on Feb 2, 2008 2:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If it's okay for CEO's to trash their companies and the economy and walk away with millions, consequence free, if it's okay for Bush/Cheney to trash the country, Iraq, and the environment and just saunter off into the sunset, why the h*ll shouldn't ordinary people follow their examples?

I'll condemn these desperate people's choices when I see some movement on the part of our government (Congressional Democrats, that's you) to hold the feet of these executives and pols to the fire.

Accountability - it's not just for the 'little people' anymore...

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Hurl the blame to Alan Greenspan and Bush!!
Posted by: xvictor on Feb 2, 2008 7:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After scanning the above posts, not one had mentioned Alan Greenspan and the political curse of twelve years of Repugnican misrule. It was he who turned on the spigots that made cheap money available for the masses to spend and consume. Ours was a sorry economy based on flipping real estate fortunes for the last several years. Examine the GDP for the last several years. It's mostly based on real estate sales. and because so much cheap money was available why would banks bother to check credit ratings?

Greenspan has a history of creating bubbles that catastrophically burst after a few short years. He created the tech bubble and and now the mortgage crisis. He single-handedly transformed 'irrational exuberance' into a sexy animal that everyone must have. Now that animal is painfully biting back. It's so funny watching the financial types hang on to every word that used Greenspan used to say.

He worshipped gold as an object of stability back in the 60s. Then he dissed gold when he became chairman. Now he praises gold after he retired. A guy who can't make up his mind.

Also, a big part of the blame also goes to Wall Street believing that debt creation is a big money maker. So much for Bush and his "ownership society".

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How are they going to renegotiate their mortgages?
Posted by: dkm on Feb 2, 2008 10:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It used to be that you could go to the local bank that issued you your mortgage and talk with someone who really did want to get you out of trouble because it was also money for them. Now the people who own your mortgage are who knows where and even if they did want to help you, how are you ever going to get in touch with them? If the mortgage people are serious about stopping this trend of walking away from the house, they are going to have to take the initiative and contact people who might be in trouble as evidenced by falling behind in their payments. Mailing a certified nastygram doesn't count. They need to physically contact the person in a NONthreatening manner and try to work something out. If they hadn't been playing pyramids, the mortgage would still be with the local bank and the borrower would still have a way to initiate contact. Now they have nothing.

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What would REALLY help (but will never happen)
Posted by: macdon1 on Feb 2, 2008 1:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is for government to offer REAL help for first time home buyers and reclaim some of the foreclosed homes before they turn into a mess. Also more help for holders of REASONABLE mortgages who have gotten in trouble through deceptive lending practices and not through greed and speculation. Economics used to teach the beneficial multiplier effects of home ownership, but that has been totally disregarded, especially here in California. It was just an out of control insane feeding frenzy. Now there is a lot of talk about bundling forclosed homes and selling them to foreign investors, who seem to think at-risk over-developed, rapidly desertifying California is Shangri-La. It will be just one more disaster in a rapidly multiplying string of them.

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Why would they pay to stay in crappy situations?
Posted by: Callibrarian on Feb 2, 2008 6:20 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in Sacramento and the foreclosures are clustered in some areas. It's one thing to struggle with a mortgage in a solid area and another to stay in one where handfuls of homes are empty and you you might get West Nile Virus because a foreclosed home's pool is filling up with bugs.

And who says these home owners can afford to pay? No where in the link did it say why the banks assumed these people could pay. Did they do a study or just assume folks were rolling in it and didn't want to give it up? Things around here are not exactly cheap, and homes mean other spending like on HOA fees and furniture. Plenty of people are still technically employed, but how many of those work on commission or as needed? The construction workers and real estate agents I know are still working; they simply have little to no money to show for it.

As for trash outs, I think they are a sign of hitting bottom. Some see it as complete disrespect. I wonder if they did it out of frustration or if it was really because they could not afford to either store their furniture or take it with them.

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My Story of Foreclosure
Posted by: LLITTL on Feb 2, 2008 8:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its been a few years but I fell into trouble with my loan in the 90s. We had bought in the early 80s...what turned out to be a peak in the market 13.25% interst. When my marriage broke up and I was left with the house, I resolved to keep it. I eventually landed 2 full time jobs, one of which would last 6 months.
I called the FmHA office and said I would pay double mortgage payments for 4 months, which would bring us back into current status. What I heard stunned me. "You have 30 days". Now, I had been behind 4 months for several months and had no communication from them. They expected me to pay them $2760 when my income for that month was nowhere near that amount! I hung up the phone and resolved not to pay anything. I stayed in the house for a year and a half. I had no further contact with the office, nor did I receive any mail from them. I realized I would have to find a place to live that I could pay for. Wihtin a month of moving out of the house they had foreclosure papers served on me. That was the only communication I received...to this date. Eventually the outstanding balaince was written off, imputed to me as income and I paid the income tax and penalties for not reporting it properly.
Yes, I may have been foolish for not following up on that phone call. My state of mind at the time was very depressed. I wouldn't consider actually trashing my home, even though I was abandoning it.Depends on a person's up-bringing, I guess.
I do remember a story my daughter tells of the owhers of a small skiing resort hotel. She was employed by the company sent in to clean up. Appearently, the owners decided to get really drunk with some friends and they ended up spreading the contents of the commercial kitchen throughout the place before they left. They had been customers of mine when I had a wholesale snack route in the area, so, I knew them and the public spaces of the hotel.

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Blame Borrowers not Banks
Posted by: auio on Feb 3, 2008 10:19 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What, exactly, do banks do that is so evil? In 2000 I borrowed money from a bank to by a house, refinanced in 2002, and then sold in 2007 when the market was obviously over priced. I had bought a house that was within my means and I lived economically. I made all my payments, even though I was unemployed for half the time (I had saved up for years before buying the house just to be on the safe side).

Banks just loan money to people and then expect them to pay it back. Its not complicated. If you borrow money and lose it, its generally your fault. But people have an infinite capacity to blame everyone but themselves. Can you imagine this conversation with a friend:

You: Hi. I can't pay you back the $100 I borrowed because I went to the track and lost it.

Friend: OK. Maybe we can work something out. When do you think you could pay me back?

You: Screw you, you evil bastard! A greedy type like you should never have loaned me money in the first place!

Friend: OK. That doesn't seem fair, but I guess there is nothing I can do.

You: That's better. By the way, can you loan me $50? I promise I'll pay you back.

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» RE: Blame Borrowers not Banks Posted by: BAKslider
BLAME BANKS,NOT BORROWERS
Posted by: Astroboy on Feb 3, 2008 10:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Banks CHOOSE to lend money and to who they lend it to.

It is THEIR fucking responsibility if THEY make bad loans.

IT'S JUST THAT GODDAMNED FUCKING SIMPLE!!!

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FOOLS......ALL !
Posted by: gellero on Feb 3, 2008 2:08 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm amazed at the EVIL of some of the posters who think their own free will decisions justify evil. I assume most have never had to fill an application form for a commercial or personal loan from a bank, and have never seen a mortgage application.

ALL the BORROWERS are ADULTS. Most are old enough to understand what 'living beyond your means' implies. Nobody forced them into a mortgage broker's office ( where most subprimes originated ). Speak to a mortgage broker sometime.....I have, because i've dated several. Banks ( to whom mortgages are sold/placed ) have underwriting criteria. If you can't afford the note, you don't get the money. Period.

So how did these deadbeats get the loans?? THEY LIED ON THEIR APPLICATIONS ( which, by the way, is a crime ). Credit rating and income can be usually verified. But NET WORTH & PRIVATE DEBT/OBLIGATIONS can not. How would they know you owe your brother in law 20 G's for a car?? A 'layaway' plan, etc., etc.
How can a loan be 'predatory' if you want it?

ALL borrowers are given a form prior to closing the deal that spells out all terms in black and white. In fact, you can back out of a mortgage in 48 hours. THAT'S THE LAW.

The fact that some people would trash what is not theirs shows WHAT TRASH THEY REALLY ARE.

My true sympathy goes out to those who followed the rules, had a cushion of savings, and had some circumstance beyond their control impair their ability to pay. Those type would never dream of trashing a house.

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» RE: FOOLS......ALL ! Posted by: Spot
» RE: FOOLS......ALL ! Posted by: BAKslider
» RE: FOOLS......ALL ! Posted by: mejsmith
question and hopeful opinion
Posted by: using on Feb 3, 2008 9:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
given the strenght of the corrupt factions of our society, what exactly do you think that Ron Paul can do if he became president?

How do you feel about this -- building a third party. We need a grass roots organization that will give us some clout. To accomplish this we need leaders with the kind of dedication the labor leaders had in the 30's. We need to direct the energies of the people who are hurting and give them hope that they can fight for their rights. That way they will not have to release their energies by trashing their houses. With accumulative energies syphoned off from the anger and pain of these times we can figure out how to rebuild a country for, by and of the people. As we gain clout, we can stop depending on our elected officials to do the right thing and work to force them to adhere to our needs. We can do this by making ourselves stronger through a group effort to boycott. By bartering and with community trade we can grow bargaining clout with the corporations as well-- i.e. you want us to buy your merch -- you have to give us paying jobs at fair wages. There is alot of talent, well educated talent with experience on this level of middle class. Yes, I believe we can make a non-violent revolution and once and for all come up with a plan to control greed and rather than having each great society that man has distroyed through corruption. Many of the bloggers are correct -- if you steal a loaf of bread from the supermarket the first thing they will do when they catch you is take the bread back..and yet we allow the theivery -- because devided we are powerless.
WHatever chance we have to make a difference, we have to unite to do it.

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ms.
Posted by: using on Feb 3, 2008 9:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Trashing their homes is an act of desperation that accomplished nothing.

We need change. Real change......and the question before us is: Can we count on our elected officials to give it to us. Slowing down the process that has been building for the last 20 or more years and has excellertated under Bush -- so we can harness our forces is our best option. Real change will come from building a strong collition that can turn into a third party. ANd while we are building this party our strenght in numbers and dedication will grow so we will gain more and more clout. To accomplish this, we need a. organization b. strong leadership c. local leaders with the dedication and fortitude of the labor union leaders of the 30's.

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Yeah, Right.
Posted by: Fraud Guy on Feb 6, 2008 2:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Because of the number of foreclosures, many lenders would prefer not to add to the inventory of foreclosed homes but instead work out an agreement with the homeowner.

Hmm. I contacted my lender 5 months ago about the financial troubles I was having on a house I have been trying to sell for 2 years. Their continuing advice has been "make your payments." I asked about interest only, no ARM increase, reduced payments, deferred payments, deed in lieu, restructuring, and everything else that I could participate in. One answer: "you must continue to make your payments", and "since you cannot make your current payments, we will not stop your ARM adjustments". I have sunk $20K+ in improvements over these past two years to make it more saleable (all with much realtor input) and...nothing. Only four "buyers" in the past 10 months, all with various "concerns" that were actually given as selling points in the listing that they were surprised to find at the house. Price has dropped about 20%, and still...nothing.

Lenders are trying to avoid foreclosures....right.

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Walking on a mortgage = doom!!
Posted by: Irv on Feb 8, 2008 12:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What people fail to see is the consequences of walking away from a mortgage. I have close friends in the mortgage industry, and a wave of "defecientcy judgements" will very soon be unleashed on the population! The lenders can, and now will, sue you for the difference in what the home sells for at auction and what you owe them on the mortgage, including all fees, interest, and legal costs! This will tack on to your credit, and attach itself to the next property that you buy. Walking away from a mortgage can saddle you with hundreds of thousands in debt for the rest of your life!

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