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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

Young Adults Are Getting Hit with Enormous Overdraft Fees

By Leslie Parrish and Ginna Green, AlterNet. Posted November 6, 2007.


More and more consumers are finding the deck stacked against them when it comes to battling abusive overdraft fees.
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Few Americans are immune to the offers of quick, cheap and easy credit that surround us these days. Indeed, when brand-new adults first arrive on their college campuses, they are often greeted by a bank or credit card company before their resident advisor.

The consumer finance industry-including banks, credit unions and credit card companies-is never short of ways to lure in the American consumer, and a recent analysis performed by my organization, the Center for Responsible Lending, illustrates precisely how banks and credit unions are socking it to young adults -- to the tune of nearly $1 billion a year.

More and more consumers -- particularly young adults -- are finding the deck stacked against them when it comes to battling abusive overdraft fees. Banks and credit unions now routinely allow most debit card transactions to go through when their account holders have a negative balance. Instead of declining the transaction, institutions will advance the funds to cover the shortfall (often less than $20) and charge the account holder an average fee of $34 for each overdraft. Consumers are not given an adequate chance to prevent these fees, which are largely out of proportion to the loans themselves. In fact, adults in general pay about $2 for every dollar the bank advances to cover debit card overdrafts, while young adults pay $3.25 for every dollar loaned to them, due in large part to their frequent use of debit cards for low dollar transactions.

In July, we found that banks and credit unions' abusive overdraft lending practices cost American consumers $17.5 billion in fees for abusive overdraft loans. Our latest analysis, released last month, found that nearly $1 billion of that amount came at the expense of our nation's college students and young adults aged 18-24.

And our nation's young people-dubbed "Generation Plastic" because of their reliance on debit and credit cards-are particularly vulnerable to new banking practices that make it easier for even the most scrupulous account holder to avoid abusive overdraft fees [you mean make it harder for scrupulous account holders to avoidd overdraft fees?]. The rapid growth in overdraft fees levied by banks and credit unions-$17.5 billion in 2006 compared to $10.3 billion in 2004 -has been fueled largely by debit card transactions (popular among Generation Plastic) and bank practices that increase the number of overdrafts (popular at many banks and credit unions).

Some of those unsavory bank practices are related to daily account reconciliation. When banks reconcile a customer's transactions for the day, they often deduct funds in order of the largest payment to the smallest, regardless of the order the transactions were made. The industry acknowledges this is their standard practice. By manipulating the order, the bank still covers the same number of payments, even when the account balance goes into the negative. But they can count more of them as overdrafts-and collect more fees in the process-if they deduct the largest debit first.

Other practices, such as enrolling customers in overdraft "protection" programs automatically without their consent or holding deposits for extended periods but processing checks and debits immediately, can lead to unexpected overdrafts for consumers as well.

There is a solution, however, and it's pending before the U.S. House Financial Services Committee. HR 946, the Consumer Overdraft Protection Fair Practices Act, sponsored by Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) would require banks and credit unions to disclose the interest rates of these abusive overdraft loans so that consumers can compare the cost of this credit option to others. It would also empower account holders by allowing them to the choice to opt-in to an overdraft program, rather than automatically enrolling them without their express consent. It would also prohibit banks from manipulating the order they process checks and debits in order to increase fees.

The legislation is sorely needed for the sake of consumer protection. Even our most vulnerable and inexperienced consumer group-new, young bank customers-is not being shielded from abusive practices. Instead of protecting their financial wellbeing, these overdraft loans are robbing young people of a secure and solid start in their lives.

In the meantime, all consumers, but especially younger ones, should be wary of overdraft protection programs - especially those in which they were automatically enrolled or those that are not linked to a line of credit or to a savings account. Unfortunately, overdraft "protection" programs rarely consider the consumer's best interests and typically protect nothing more than the bank's bottom line.

Digg!

See more stories tagged with: debt, responsible lending, stuent loans

Ginna Green and Leslie Parrish work with the Center for Responsible Lending. Parrish is the co-author, with Peter Smith, of Billion Dollar Deal, the Center's recent report on overdraft fees and how they impact young adults.



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How is this different from extortion?
Posted by: cordas on Nov 6, 2007 2:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is just daylight robbery..... and to think our banks over here in the UK where bad, hopefully our banking codes won't get relaxed to this amount, although I am sure they are trying to get it.

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I think I'm missing something
Posted by: rwday@cox.net on Nov 6, 2007 3:22 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Overdraft means the person used their debit card when there was insufficient funds (whether through bad record keeping or deliberate action) to cover the purchase. I don't see how this is the bank's fault. Debit cards are not credit cards - it's the responsibility of the account holder to actually have a clue as to how much money they've got before they start spending it. When my daughter and son got their checking accounts and debit cards, I taught them how to record transactions and reconcile their statements. They haven't been perfect at it, but they certainly don't whine about the fees when they make a mistake because they understand it's THEIR error.

Back when rocks were soft and debit cards didn't exist, I would write a check and if there wasn't enough money to cover it, it would bounce, subjecting me to bounced check fees from the bank and penalties from the merchant. Now, at least, they're only getting dinged by the bank. Some people may not be organized or responsible enough to handle debit cards - there are other options for purchase, including checks, credit cards (hopefully paid off each month) and actual cash. Most stores do still take that, I hear.

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» now, now! play nice Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» People must be broke.. Posted by: messedup
» RE: People must be broke.. Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: People must be broke.. Posted by: Aimleft
Back in the day
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa on Nov 6, 2007 3:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
banks wouldn't LET you write checks or debit anything if you didn't have the money.

of course, simple math skills help, too. but these days you don't even need that when you can save receipts and plug the numbers in a computer program like quicken or money. i'm going to use the "r' word RESPONSIBILITY. take it, once in awhile.

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» RE: Back in the day Posted by: VZEQICVA
All good news for the sex industry
Posted by: Bobsays on Nov 6, 2007 4:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No politicians like to talk about it, but everytime this kind of thing happens more hot ladies pose nude, get involved in prostitution and sex films. It is correlated.

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» OH YEAAAAAH Posted by: Allison
Overdraft = spending money you don't have
Posted by: AndyF on Nov 6, 2007 4:10 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The bill referenced sounds like an excellent one and would end some unfair practices on the part of the bank. However, it doesn't address the base problem which is that the cardholder apparently is too lazy to keep track of their spending and know whether they have sufficient funds to make the purchase. If they can't keep their account balanced, maybe they shouldn't use a debit card.

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» It's called "Unavailable funds" Posted by: colinmeister
Plastic is made from PETROLEUM. Peak Oil should do some hole poking here but with reference to
Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 6, 2007 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
students and the credit card companies. Listen people, when my wife and I each grew up in high school and college being frugal throughout, each of us was laughed at and called names. Parents, schools, and communities don't ever take the time to teach their kids the value of spending wisely. Instead, they let them spend like there's no tomorrow and taunt and bully frugal people. Add to it, the sleazy tv bullshit that keeps kids' minds on the WRONG track. Of course Big Business takes advantage of this weakness and is able to succeed. Luckily, for my wife and I, we each went through high school and college life debt free no matter the brunt.

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Usury effects poor more
Posted by: peacelf on Nov 6, 2007 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With banking deregulation came all kinds of loan schemes and banking fees that keep the poor poor and enrich the banks and wealthy corporate owners.

Besides exorbitant fees and hidden charges for overdraft ($1 overdraft could be up to a $25 fee), the poor are further ripped off by checking cashing companies that charge 800-900% interest on payday "loans" and rent to own stores that charge renters double or more for a TV or piece of cheap furniture. That same TV can be purchased at Best Buy by the credit-worthy for 0% interest for 12 months.

And, let's not forget used car lots that have "buy-here pay-here" plans that sell poorer people junk cars above retail, then charge high interest rates on top of it. If the customer fails to make one payment on time, the car can be shut off electronically from the dealership until payment is made, or repossessed and resold again the next day for a ridiculously high price.

Besides the fact that subprime lending practices are forcing more and more homeowners into foreclosure, lease-option homes are being foreclosed and resold quickly to ensure enormous profits.

The new lending industry rip-offs make the S&L scandal of the 80's look like a minor banking error.

Tom Robbins wrote that socialism falls into totalitarianism, while capitalism eventually falls into chaos. Everything is for sale in capitalist america and anything goes. Extortion and usury is legal, just like pre-emptive wars and wiretapping.
Of course, the poor everywhere suffer the most.

peace

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some readers have illustrated the problem precisely
Posted by: Trazom on Nov 6, 2007 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not necessarily that the majority of these fees are being racked up by irresponsible young adults (many are, but it's not fair to place 100% of the blame on them), it's that the predatory lending practices of the banks exacerbate the already pre-existing and worsening problem, that is, the shrinking debt-consciousness of today's young consumer. I agree that money skills as a whole is lacking today, but I ask you, is it fair that someone who overdrafts $12 should be charged $900 in fees? Is it fair to the person who meticulously manages his/her account balance down to the penny, who ends up with $100 in overdraft fees because his/her bank processed the later transaction first, which also happened to be the largest, leaving a negative account balance? Is it fair to many account holders who have to wait for that paycheck to make ends meet, who literally have to plan their balances out to the day, only to see it go negative because the deposit they so desperately needed to prop up their balance had a 2-day hold put on it?

And another thing, with so many of these predatory practices by the banks and credit unions, combined with very low or no interest rates at all on most checking accounts, perhaps it would be easier to keep your cash at home? I mean really, who needs all this? Convenience? When debit cards first debuted they were touted as the convenient form to pay for things. Just how convenient are they now?

C'mon people. The banks continue to do this to us and we blame each other. Let's start by blaming them for taking advantage of the situation. They will continue this behavior until they are forced to change. I can tell you from my own personal experience, I have excellent control over my finances, but have been duped at least twice by these scams.

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Long article
Posted by: Leman on Nov 6, 2007 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read the very first line:
Few Americans are immune to the offers of quick, cheap and easy credit that surround us these days.

This is where this article could have stopped. That's it. Predatory-schmedatory. When a shady dude on a street offers you a little dime bag of unidentified white powder - do you take it? Whatever happened to "Just say No!" ??

Here is how it works:
1) "Our rates are at all-time low, there is almost no way they will go lower - jump on it!"
2) (half-a-minute later) "This awesome ARM loan lets you take advantage of these unbelievable low rates for full 2 years!"
3) (in the next breath) "After that, the rates are going to reset to what's prevalent in the market at the time" (yes, they all say that - maybe they say it fast, maybe they wink-wink while saying that - but they say it)

OK, now you are a person with IQ above 20, trying to put these three together:
Rates will not go down any more - hmm, where will they go then?? Up, of course! Can I afford it? Probably not. I'll pass, thanks.

I can see an army of "progressives" running towards me with stones and rotten tomatos: "How dare you! What if the guy does not have IQ above 20? Don't we need to protect him from these white-collar vultures?!"

To which I answer: "No, we do not. If the guy indeed has an IQ below 20, he has no business applying for an exotic mortage. If he does not come to the bank with his guardian, lawyer and a social worker, one has to assume that he knows how to read and understands the difference between up and down.

I have a simple solution for all of you:
don't overdraw your checking, don't overcharge your credit, don't sign anything you do not understand - and don't whine if you make any of those mistakes.

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» RE: working poor Posted by: aka_bozo
» Slime at the bottom Posted by: NWCrow
» I couldn't agree more Posted by: NWCrow
» Just to clarify... Posted by: NWCrow
» RE: Just to clarify... Posted by: aka_bozo
» Good luck to you, too Posted by: NWCrow
» RE: Good luck to you, too Posted by: aka_bozo
» RE: I couldn't agree more Posted by: Leman
» RE: more government Posted by: aka_bozo
» RE: more government Posted by: Leman
» RE: more government Posted by: aka_bozo
NOT a "Problem"
Posted by: Scott on Nov 6, 2007 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if YOU or THEY would not WANT to live BEYOND one's MEANS! If you or they don't buy the big mac mansion, keep three cars in the garage, send the kiddies to every after school program possible, live with a mexican maid to have a dust free house, a pool boy, a mexican detailer down the street for a clean up every other day from running the kiddies around to their programs, to sitting on louie furniture, THEN these fees would not be a problem. Just live on your pay check, spend only the cash you have, STOP when IT runs out and the banks, day lenders won't be able to charge you these fees! Really NOT a Problem, IF GREED is not at the center of your heart & soul....!!! (oh by the way, when the U.S. recession hits in 2009, when IT causes the rest of the world to bottom out in probably 2011, it won't really be a "problem" then either as there will be so much death and dying that the BANKS will go under faster then fleas and the grown up kiddies will be selling apples on the corner, not living in a mac mansion and driving their three suv's!)

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Credit unions too *sigh*
Posted by: woodbee on Nov 6, 2007 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My younger brother was getting into this kind of overdraft trouble, so he stopped using the account for a while. His credit union charged him a monthly fee for not using it.

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Predatory Lending is an oxymoron
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Nov 6, 2007 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sorry but it really is an oxymoron. It just ... is.

People need to stop being so naive as to think they can enter into any contract without reading the fine print. Uncle Sam cannot do that for you. If you let him do it for you, he starts doing it for me too. And I DO NOT want that. I will read the damn contract myself, tyvFm.

I have had one overdraft in all of my twenties. I've had a couple late charges too. And I accept them all as my fault, except for one credit card payment which apparently got lost in the mail. Since I turned 30, I have not been late whatsoever. I have not overdrawn myself. I am aware of my bank's policies on deposits.

If people are smart enough to know how many touchdowns their favorite team has scored on any given sunday, then they are smart enough to understand the terms of any contract they enter into. Whether they choose to understand, or not, is not the government's job.

Give Meritocracy a chance! Every time you take a piece of it away, we get closer and closer to Idiocracy.

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» RE: Predatory Lending is an oxymoron Posted by: justacomment
» keeping the poor poor Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Predatory Lending/YAY for YOU Posted by: carcinoid112
» I think... Posted by: mjabele
ATM card can be set to not allow overdrafts
Posted by: alleybear on Nov 6, 2007 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't know about any other banks, but I went a few rounds a year ago with Wells Fargo and got them to set my ATM card to not process purchases if my account didn't have enough funds in it.

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ffs people
Posted by: patrickj on Nov 6, 2007 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you sign up for the bank's services, you spend more money than you have, you pay the fee. stfu and pay it. banking is a business and we have to make money off of each and every customer, otherwise it's pointless to let you have an account. the only way to make money off people who don't have much money in their account is to charge them their overdraft fees.

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» RE: ffs people Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: ffs people Posted by: patrickj
» RE: ffs people Posted by: patrickj
» RE: ffs people Posted by: Joe
badAtMath
Posted by: lexicon on Nov 6, 2007 8:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well...for all the pen register luddites out there who just can't understand how this is a problem...

This is a brave new (banking) world. Money can "disappear" from your account without your knowledge, through electronic transfers. I'll offer up a little anecdote.

I had plenty of money in my account to cover all cheques and debits I'd made...or so I thought. While routinely checking my balance and activity online, I noticed an electronic debit for $600...actually not a REAL debit, but a "hold" transaction for an electronic transfer that was in process and would most likely clear within the next day or so. I immediately called the bank, recognizing it as an unauthorized transaction, from a company who I had previously done business with...a 'double billing' of an old transaction. God only knows where it came from or why they were doing it...but they were.

In trying to put a "stop" on the payment, my bank informed me that they were entirely unable to do that...basically ANY electronic transaction that came through, would process regardless of ANYTHING I tried to do unilaterally to stop it. The ONLY remedy available to me was to chase down the entity that had made the electronic transfer, and get them to reverse it.

Good luck with that, all you victims of identity theft!

Essentially there was absolutely no way, even under threat of court injunction, that MY bank would protect MY account from some outside unauthorized (alleged) transaction.

Ok, that's the first big problem. Now, that $600 was no longer there to cover the $1000 dollar checque that was written several days earlier...and sure enough, it bounced. I helplessly watched it bounce, then two more checques bounce, as $100 in overdraft fees accumulated, wiping my account negative, thus causing 2 more small checques to bounce, causing another $50 in fees.

Urgent calls to the "naughty" company that erroneously double-billed my account (two months had passed since the transaction), revealed that the only person who could deal with the problem was on vacation until Monday next. Ahh, very good!

So, in the end, I was out more than $200 in fees, through an action that was entirely outside my control, in spite of my diligent efforts to control it.

I've also been bitten by the "Un-collected funds" goblin...again in one instance racking up over $120 in fees. My solution to the problem? Take my paper paycheque, walk it down to the bank it was drawn on, cash it for cash money...walk that cash money over to my bank, and deposit it...making SURE to demand that the teller "memo post" it to the account...otherwise even CASH wouldn't show on the account before the next business day!

Since taking that strategy, I have eliminated uncollected funds charges from my life.

Oh, I have a particularly bad bank and should change, you say? Naw...been there, tried that...they ALL do this now.

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» RE: badAtMath Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: badAtMath Posted by: lexicon
» TWO WORDS FOR YA: CREDIT UNION Posted by: HistArch
A SHARED RESPONSIBILITY
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 6, 2007 8:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's true that we all have a responsibility to monitor spending. But banks have made all this possible and have encouraged careless borrowing. They make an enormous profit on fees. They don't have to provide a service or product, just whack the account for fees. I see a huge class action suit coming. This is not a legitimate way for banks to make a profit. It's called loan sharking. I know, people have to pay more attention. Thanks, ANNA

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» RE: A SHARED RESPONSIBILITY Posted by: carcinoid112
IF YA DIDN'T HEAR ME BEFORE...USE YOUR HEAD RATHER THAN CREDIT
Posted by: HistArch on Nov 6, 2007 10:05 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you can't add and subtract, what the hell are you doing with money. This article brings out three key characteristics of "generation plastic" (a group of which I am supposed to belong):

1) Research where you put your money- why do we need another law forcing banks to tell you how you will be gouged if you don't add your money properly? If you do the research about your bank, you will know what the penalty is for overdrafts. Also, there is more than one bank so check them out and compare deals before you give them your $.

2) Don't spend if you don't have money- simple as that. If you are buying a non-essential, impermanent item, that will lose much of its value once you take it out of the store on credit, you are essentially an idiot. Don't buy what you can't afford. Only houses should be bought with credit, everything else you NEED to survive can be bought with cash.

3) Personally manage all of your money- Use cash, keep receipts, and record where every penny of your money is going. This allows you to be aware of how you are spending and exactly how much money you have at any given time and its easy to do, it just takes practice. Save as much as you can (at least 10 percent if possible). Downsize your life until you can save 10%. Put that savings in a high interest internet bank account until you are ready to buy US Treasury bonds.

These are not things my parents taught me. They are still wallowing in credit card and other debt. These are not things school teaches people because in all fairness pubic and private schools only teach you to be a consumer rather than a person and citizen. People who get nailed by fees, myself included, are fools who should have looked into the terms and conditions of these accounts.

By the way, credit unions are not the same as banks and while there are some who levy fees, most are the best places to go for credit. Look for good local credit unions and never work with corporate banks.

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» Like an idiot would care Posted by: aka_bozo
Here's the real rub...
Posted by: lexicon on Nov 6, 2007 10:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In times past...the glorious days of thrift and proper math skills and such that some posters here cherish and hold up as the gold standard of fiscal responsibility...

there was something called "the Float". In essence, the float is like a little short-term loan...you write paper against your account, and have the benefit of using whatever product or service you've paid for, for a couple days before you actually see the money go away. For those couple days, you collect interest on that money.

The Float was the time between you writing a check and handing it to a merchant, and the moment that said check arrived at your bank's doors, to be debited from your account.

These folks who denigrate today's little bank customers over their inability to manage money used to make constant, confident use of "the float".

For example...in times past, I write a check to the supermarket. I know that the supermarket is going to take 2 days to sort it out and send my check to their bank, and their bank is going to take a day or three to "clear" that check to my bank, at which time the money comes out of my account. Thus, I can write a check today, even though my paycheck is not coming until tomorrow, because I will be 'covered' by the float.

But, no more!

Banks have been working for DECADES to take back the float from the customer, and they've finally succeeded.

Typically, banks can now instantaneously clear your check through the electronic networks, and take your money right away. Today, I write a paper check to the supermarket, and before I get home, the money is out of my bank account. In addition to this, banks have RETAINED the entirely arbitrary 2-3-5 day "hold" on deposited funds (time that it used to take for that money to clear).

So, the banks now have the float. Meaning that the banks now have the use of our money "for free" for a couple-three days, to earn interest with, and to make their balance sheets look a little shinier.

So, it really is a different world, folks. This isn't a clear-cut case of "RTFM, stupid".

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» EXACTLY!!! Posted by: deborama
Just Use Cash
Posted by: bcgirl125 on Nov 6, 2007 11:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's the end of the problem. Everyone knows banks exist to rip off consumers, so why even give them an chance? If you must use plastic, open an account at a bank that has more consumer-friendly policies such as a cutoff on spending once the account is empty. BANK OF AMERICA will not process a debit card transaction once the charge exceeds the account balance.

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» NOT TRUE about B of A Posted by: deborama
» RE: NOT TRUE about B of A Posted by: bcgirl125
CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVE NOW!
Posted by: higginslads on Nov 6, 2007 12:21 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A sitting member of Congress is introducing a measure to impeach the vice president of the United States and the story isn't visible on Alternet. This should be the leading story on a website that bills itself as an "alternative" to the mainstream. Some alternative! More like left gatekeeper.

For those who are interested in doing something constructive about our current state of affairs, please call your representative and urge them to support Mr. Kucinich's bill. The Capitol switchboard is:

1-800-828-0498
1-800-862-5530
1-800-833-6354

Just ask the operator for your representative's office. If you don't know it, tell her/him where you live and she/he will look it up. Once transferred to your representative's office, politely tell the person who answers the phone that you urge your representative to support Kucinich's articles of impeachment against the vice president. You will probably be asked for your name and address.

I just did this. It's the first time I had ever called my representative (Rodney Frelinghuysen in NJ). It was easy and I felt better after doing it.

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Who Pays When Banks Are Irresponsible? Sub-Prime Fiasco It IS!
Posted by: sofla100 on Nov 6, 2007 2:25 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Banks have no desire to compete with each other and this is a big part of the problem. On top of that, they have effectively cornered th market and turned it into a racket. It works like this, banks only need to hold a small percentage of money to meet any potential run from bankholders, the federal government insures it all. Interest rates on loans are set by universal formulas tied in with credit scores. When banks go overboard, issue bad loans, as happened with subprime, guess who is holding the bag! The taxpayer, the banks are screaming for bailouts from the federal government, from Sallie Mae and FHA to assume all their bad debt. On top of that the Federal Reserve is cutting interest rates to help, guess who, the BANKS! Scream all you want about some irresponsible kids, the BANKS were irresponsible to the tune of hundreds of billions in subprime, but, the kids are not being bailed out alla taxpayer, the banks are however! BIG BUSINESS and BIG MONEY at work my friends.

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F*&K The Credit Industry
Posted by: bbrodsky84 on Nov 6, 2007 6:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
just max out your cards, donate the max to a candidate, then tell your credit company u will not pay until the patriot is repealed... not only are so many defaulting they will never be able to get a judgement against u, but u will also be doing your part to end the credit industry in America

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» STEALING Posted by: gellero
» RE: STEALING Posted by: bbrodsky84
Whaaa???
Posted by: gellero on Nov 6, 2007 6:39 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a card charge is a problem, why complain of being a 'victim' of your own making?? Is there something wrong with cash?? If you fall into this trap you get what you expect. Stupid is as stupid does.
PS.....Buy gold coins....you paper will be worth a lot less soon.


Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

PSS... read the Constitution of the US.......MONEY is defined as Gold and Silver. Not paper. Thank that great progressive, FDR.

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» RE: read the Constitution Posted by: aka_bozo
OTOH
Posted by: DaBear on Nov 6, 2007 9:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the other hand, overdraft policies like "Smartpay" allow those on the margins to "float" an income shortfall when regular expenses are priced for the elites... i.e., if your means aren't level with the corporate elites, you can never afford to live within your real means (because they're priced up to 8 times beyond your actual low income). As more and more companies pay less and less often, these overdraft plans, as expensive and as much as they are highway robbery, are like the check cashing frauds... they allow poor people to get by in a rigged system that keeps them enslaved. The solution isn't in bills like the article talks about, which only force predators to say, "Hey, I have teeth and I'm lookin' to eatcha first chance I git." We need laws that make the rich fuckers pay up and pay up more often, and prices to come down and for predators to get their teeth capped.

But that'd make way too much damned sense for 'Merkaans who just seem to lust for ways to penetrate each other in the most unreasonable and shocking ways possible day and night and in public.

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US banking is antiquated
Posted by: graemejmuir on Nov 7, 2007 12:39 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems strange that the US banking system is still years behind many other systems around the world. In New Zealand no young people have cheque books and most places will no longer accept cheques anyway. If you dont have enough money in your account a debit transaction will decline and most people are able to view their bank statments online and then pay their bills online without ever having to write a cheque. There seems to be a paranoia about debit cards whilst in New Zealand two million transactions are processed a day for a country of four million and now you can check your balance and pay people from your cellphone. One day you guys will catch up and embrace new banking technology.

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mkrichardson
Posted by: mkrichardson on Nov 8, 2007 1:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ahh. Back in the good old days, even before debit cards, if you tried to use a credit card and you were already at your limit, your purchase was declined. Why that couldn't happen with a bank balance is beyond me. Now, your credit card overage will garner a $35 over limit fee for the date it occurred and, say it is three days from the closing of your current month's statement - they will sock you for another $35 for still being over your limit. So, in a matter of days, you could have $70 in fees. Add this to the "electronic world" of debiting your checking or savings account where all is compounded to the point where you could easily have enough accumulated fees to rob you of your next paycheck. All this is gravy for the banks. I remember when certain stores would decline your credit card if you were "too close" to your credit limit. No more! Whether or not you are at or near your credit or balance limit, and do or don't keep close track of those amounts does not matter. The idea that somehow, in this age of electronic EVERYTHING, it is too tough for the banks to decline to process your transaction says one thing. They don't want to. Maybe 25 years ago we were just dumber, I guess. Maybe more impulse purchasing was dissuaded because it was kind of embarrassing to have your card declined at the checkout. Well, I guess I'm old. Old enough to remember when my State of Wisconsin still had usury laws which prevented credit companies from charging more than 12% interest because any more than that was considered loan sharking. My, my. How far we've come!

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Buy FFXI Gil
Posted by: haohao on Nov 10, 2007 6:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]