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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

America's Addiction to Debt Finally Crashes the System

By John F. Ince, AlterNet. Posted September 18, 2007.


Market evangelists created the wreckage, but ordinary working people will bear the greatest burden.
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We have to deal with the fundamental reality that Americans are addicted to debt. Debt today in the United States is at an all-time high in each of the three primary sectors: public, corporate and consumer debt. The national debt last week topped $9 trillion, up from approximately $5 trillion when George Bush took office.

To put this in perspective, the government of Bush & Co. has borrowed almost as much as the governments of all the other presidents of the United States combined. Consumer credit is now at scary levels almost: $2.5 trillion, and analysts are beginning to speculate that credit card debt could be the next bubble to burst. Corporate debt has reached astronomical levels through highly leveraged private equity deals, and no one knows just how how much froth is still in the system.

Central banks worldwide have reacted to the crisis by injecting over $700 billion into the global financial system. This is an astronomical level of liquidity, but it seems somehow to defy any human element. However, it has intensely human consequences that will affect each and every one of us. By pumping so much liquidity into the system, it ultimately inflates the currency. Put in human terms, everything is going to start costing us more. Even worse, this approach simply postpones the eventual reckoning.

For the average worker who is already struggling to make ends meet, this could have devastating consequences. Median family earnings of $48,201 in 2006 were 2 percent less than they were in 2000. So already people are running on the economic treadmill, like hamsters, spinning faster, working harder and making less.

For those who had taken some measure of financial solace from the appreciation of their homes, the game has suddenly taken a turn into a dark tunnel. Prices which had become divorced from reality, are now being corrected with a vengeance. Here's the rub for homeowners: When real estate prices go down, the debt associated with those assets does not go down. This induces a downward spiral of asset values induced by negative leverage. With a record high of 15.75 percent of all subprime loans now 30 or more days past due, many homeowners now are stuck with negative equity.

And this is where things really start to get dicey, because the stability of the entire financial system is at risk. In other words, the downward spiral of real estate assets puts the solvency of major financial institutions in jeopardy.

There was a fervent belief, spread with evangelistic zeal by many of the key players in the creation of the debt bubble that this was different from other lending cycles and it could continue indefinitely. The belief was based upon the contention that there was now more reliable information that enabled mortgage lenders to make better judgments about the credit worthiness of borrowers.

The evangelists argued that sophisticated algorithms enabled them to determine with precision exactly which borrowers were good bets and which ones were likely to default on their loans. This belief fueled the creation of an entire market for leverage in the form of CDOs (Collatoralized Debt Obligations), which were sold to major players such as hedge funds. Evangelists argued that these new financial instruments would diffuse risks throughout the financial system and that somehow, through financial alchemy, the entire system would become more stable.

That absolutist belief, like the debt bubble, has now been punctured. In the words of Warren Buffet, "Many institutions that publicly report precise market values for their holdings or CDOs and CMOs are in truth reporting fiction."

It turns out that many of the lenders were unable to verify the accuracy of income and asset information supplied by borrowers and still went ahead with the loans. Garbage in, garbage out. In other words, it is now much more difficult to know who is holding the bad debts. It used to be that banks could assess their portfolio and fairly easily identify the trouble spots. But now, we don't really know how far into the layered labyrinth of leverage the trouble goes.

And now that the absolutist belief in reliable credit information has been exposed as a false credo, fear has been spreading like a contagion through the flocks of worshipers. So we're back to the future where the old rules of skepticism apply. Bad loans are bad loans, and somebody is going to have to pay. The question yet to play itself out is how far and wide the doubts will spread. The Fed may have to make some tough calls on whether to bail out the miscreants in order to insure the short-term stability of the system.

Take a quick look at the financial pages, and you quickly get a sense that everyone is scrambling to keep their ship afloat:

  • Countrywide, one of the country's largest mortgage lenders, was unable to raise capital through its mortgage-backed securities and was forced to access a $11.5 billion line of credit, a sure sign of distress.
  • Sentinel Management Group, which oversees $1.6 billion in assets, halted investor redemptions, which exacerbated the selling. Other funds are said to have similar problems as they face withdrawal demands at a time when it has become difficult to value low-quality debt.
  • France's BNP Paribas froze three funds that invested in the U. S. mortgage market.
  • Goldman Sachs, arguably the most prestigious Wall Street bank, was forced to rescue one of its hedge funds with an infusion of $3 billion, after the fund lost 30 percent of its value in just a week.
  • Market volatility follows uncertainty, and the stock markets continue to gyrate widely and have lost 10 percent since their peak.


But, the people who will ultimately be hit the hardest are the ones living at the margins. Over half of mortgages last year were made with less than 5 percent equity and even a modest depreciation in the value of their homes puts their mortgage underwater. Since the United States today has a negative savings rate, cashing out of mortgages through refinance is no longer an option for most.

These are sobering facts, but the unknowns are of even more concern. How far into the general economy will the credit crisis extend? Will tighter credit drag down the consumer spending sector? How many of those who rely on revolving credit card debt will be forced into bankruptcy? Will this bring down major financial institutions? How effective will the Fed's efforts at stabilization be? How will the global economy react? Will Asian central banks start to move significant portions of their credit away from treasury bills? Is this a fundamental flaw in the our monetary system?

Amidst all the questions and the complexities, there is one simple truth that has to be addressed in a meaningful way before the system is stabilized. The root cause of all the problems is -- put simply -- for America, living in debt has become a way of life. Until we deal with that reality, we will simply be digging ourselves deeper into a financial morass. Our addiction extends from public debt to consumer debt and corporate debt. Subsequent credit crises will only become more protracted and severe, until ultimately the fundamental flaw in the monetary system has to be recognized and dealt with.

Since in a market-based economy, power and money flow to those who already have it, the people who live at the margins find it increasingly difficult to survive economically. In other words, our economic system as it is has exacerbated inequalities. The stability of the overall economy is threatened by imbalances when increasing numbers of people are marginalized economically.

The conventional wisdom holds that in an ideal society the imbalances can be mitigated either by governmental intervention or by the activities of the social sector. But the conventional wisdom breaks down when the private sector becomes so powerful that the public sector becomes captive of private interests. Suddenly the public sector can no longer act as a counterweight to the consuming self-interest of the private sector. This creates both economic and psychological imbalances that impair the functioning of the entire system, and markets become increasingly unstable. If this is not a fundamental flaw, then I don't know what is.

The endgame is unclear, but signs increasingly point to a resolution that undermines the United States' stature in the global economy. Benjamin Friedman, author of Day of Reckoning and chairman of Harvard's economics department, points out in my recent documentary Time-Bomb: America's Debt Crises, Causes, Consequences and Solutions that throughout history the patterns of a nation's decline are clear.

"When a nation becomes a debtor nation, this signals a fall of international stature, as evidenced by the fall of the Dutch Empire in the 1600s, the Spanish Empire in the 1700s, and the British Empire in the 1800s," he said. 25 years ago the United States was the world's largest lender nation by far. Today we owe more to other nations than the rest of the world combined. Almost 5 percent of our GDP flows into foreign hands every year, as reflected in our current account trade deficit of approximately $700 billion annually.

How bad could it get? The Fed will likely put it in a position where the only option is to monetize the public debt. Monetization is economist jargon for intentionally inflating the system. In the Time-Bomb documentary, Kenneth Rogoff, a Harvard economics professor and former chief of research for the IMF, puts it bluntly: "People who think that the government will never monetize the debt are just out to lunch."

The United States doesn't have to default on its debt. It can simply pay back lenders with dollars that are worth less than the dollars that were borrowed. And if this happens to the public debt, private debt will be similarly affected and the entire monetary system will be destabilized.

These are not happy scenarios to contemplate. But by pumping such massive amounts of liquidity into the financial system, the Fed has already started a process of increasing the supply of a commodity and thereby decreasing its value. This process is otherwise known as inflation. With the value of the dollar plunging against foreign currencies, the cost of everything we buy from abroad increases.

With America now addicted to foreign imports, it is unlikely that our appetite will go down significantly. Classic economics says it will, but a lot of pain will be felt along the way. So the American standard of living will decline and people living on the margins are pushed ever closer to the brink.

We are now officially operating in uncharted territory. The central banks today have less controlling authority today since we operate in a global economy; thus they may have less power to control crises. The fiscal irresponsibility of both public officials and private lenders are serving to compromise the integrity of the entire monetary system.

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John F. Ince is a financial journalist who recently produced the documentary film Time-Bomb: America's Debt Crises, Causes, Consequences and Solutions.

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Debtor nation
Posted by: vox persona on Sep 18, 2007 12:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cheney said, "Reagan proved deficits don't matter". These guys ruling us now live in some kind of bizzaro world. If any one of us handled our finances the way these cretins do, we'd be in jail. The party of fiscal restraint, deficit reduction and balanced budgets (as per Newt Getrich's 'Contract on America'), sure showed their true colors when they became one-party rulers the years leading up to the '06 election. They spent like drunken sailors, raided and raped the treasury, and secured tax cuts for the richest percentile. They were like greedy kids in a closed candy shop getting what they could plunder while the night watchman slept. They claimed no money for necessary social programs, but gladly started an unnecessary war that is costing us $200,000 per minute every minute of the year. Deficits on that magnitude decrease the value of the dollar, and our freefall is imminent.
BushCo may say he's against taxes, but I contend that huge deficits are just backdoor taxes, on future generations who will have to deal with the shortfalls and interest on the debt.
On the individual level, we have a low savings rate, and a high debt ratio....people are spending like tomorrow doesn't exist. I owe nobody in this world, don't even own a credit card. A debit card works just fine. If I can't afford it, I don't need it.
When this house of cards comes crashing down, printing all the money in the world won't help a bit. You might as well put your money in gold and bury it in the back yard. Fasten your safety belts, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

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» RE: Debtor nation Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Debtor nation Posted by: vox persona
» RE: Debtor nation Posted by: incenseman
» Amero Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Amero Posted by: xi_people
» RE: Amero Posted by: CanadianTheorist
Who'll Get the Blame?
Posted by: writerman on Sep 18, 2007 12:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just wonder who will get the blame for the mess! Somebody will have to be singled-out as the fall guy, especially when the consequences of the 're-structuring of the US economy' really begin to have substantial negative effects on the american society. By that I mean, millions pushed over the brink in real hardship and poverty, millions of middle-class, white, americans sliding way down the social ladder, into what exactly, re-adjustments of the entire social security and pensions system, growing unemployment and vicious inflation; I think I'll stop there with the gloom, sorry!

Put bluntly and simply; the 'ruling class' who are fundamentally responsible for the mess are not going to take the rap as this would undermine and threaten their leading role in society. They will create a 'narative' that wipes the blame off on some other sucker! The newly impoverished middle-class will be angry as hell! The unemployed will be angriest off all!

Doesn't some of this begin to sound familiar? Haven't we been down this potential unstable and dangerous road before? Students of European history will get my drift. Think of Germany in the 1930's and the ghastly consequences for society of a tremendous economic 're-structuring'.

This is pretty alarmist I know. And I'm saying we're doomed by fate to go down that particular road, only that massive economic change is often, if not always, accompanied by equally substantial social and political repercutions. And perhaps worst of all, the challanges we face, and the remedies and sacrifices, might be managable if we had a political and economic elite who were up to the job; but they are not! They are an isolated elite, living in a paralell universe compared to most people. Like the french aristocracy before the revolution. There's a lot of dead wood that needs to be cut away before new and healthy green shoots can spring forth!

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» RE: Who'll Get the Blame? Posted by: farmertx
» RE: Who'll Get the Blame? Posted by: Leman
No wonder...
Posted by: TT5 on Sep 18, 2007 2:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
your losing to Toyota!!!

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» RE: No wonder... Posted by: MAD
Skipping B School
Posted by: Urstrly on Sep 18, 2007 4:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sunday's NYTimes ran a story about young hedge fund managers who are skipping business school altogether to start making their multi-millions. I was reminded that in our last financial crisis, which included the meltdown of such shell games as Enron's, business schools pledged to start teaching more ethics. Whether or not they did, no one cares. The hedge funds take their profits and run. New York's Governor Spitzer, who knows a lot about Wall Street, refuses to subject them to regulation. We've got a financial industry where every citizen encouraged to put in their hard-earned cash (no more old-fashioned pensions) and take out a huge mortgage, but only a few know how fragile the economy is. The writer is correct; ordinary folks are going to pay the bill. Don't they always?

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» Worse than 1929 Posted by: SteveO
» Actually, it can be put on a chart Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Skipping B School Posted by: Leman
» RE: Teaching ethics is a joke Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
I wonder
Posted by: mike_burns on Sep 18, 2007 4:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if the world will renounce Capitalism. It has failed more people, more often, than any other ideology. I would like to see family first, not the dollar first. It has long quit being a means, and has become an ends.
Capitalism is a fun game, just like Monopoly. But, when one person ends up holding all the deeds. it's time for a re-shuffling.

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» RE: I wonder Posted by: dover23
» RE: I wonder Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: I wonder Posted by: marius002
Scrambling on less than a month in Iraq
Posted by: dancerkc on Sep 18, 2007 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article gave a bullet-point list with three of the examples listed with money amounts. Here is a translation into time spent spending in Iraq:

1 Countrywide - $11.5 billion - a month in Iraq
2 Sentinel - $1.6 billion - three or four days in Iraq
3 Goldman Sachs - $3 billion - a week in Iraq

These amounts - darn big by me - big enough to cause major problems to major players - are a pittance in terms of the money we are throwing down the toilet in Iraq. This is criminal insanity.

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Misdirection
Posted by: anothername on Sep 18, 2007 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Debt is not the addiction. It enables the addiction. We don’t say someone who uses meth is addicted to robbery. Nor do we say people who use their automobiles to drive two blocks are addicted to gasoline.

I’m not sure what the addiction is or even who the addict is. Not everyone who buys a state lottery ticket is a gambling addict. Not everyone who drinks a glass of wine is an alcoholic. Not everyone who takes on debt does it to satisfy some craving.

Perhaps an economic system can be addicted to debt. Certainly banks, credit card companies, and mortgage loan businesses bring to mind the market-building, if not the territorial-defense, practices of top-level drug dealers. Even the excuses sound familiar. For instance, I read one financial commentator opine that there is no mortgage crisis. According to him, the problem simply is that people without income to pay their mortgages cannot sell their houses.

Should we be looking at debt and consumer consumption as a matter of serotonin uptake? Does the level of serotonin play a role in acquiring debt for individuals? Or is it less an addiction and more akin to the sociology of mob behavior? That is, while individuals within mobs may know something is wrong, they are caught up in the emotions of the moment and take part in actions they would not do if not in a mob.

Yes, there is a problem with debt but are we avoiding the real problem, whatever that may be, if we discuss debt as an addiction?

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» RE: Misdirection Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: Misdirection Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Misdirection Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Misdirection Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Misdirection Posted by: anothername
You remember
Posted by: paschn on Sep 18, 2007 6:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when there was a small fight to block "branch" banking? Well, I remember my pop telling me the corporate swine and their unholy "coupling" with the Whores in power, were going to "kill the goose that lays the golden eggs". You wonder how the CC banks have gotten legalized loan sharking, 30% interest on existing debt, removed the protection of bankruptcy that was in place since before Jesus walked the earth? When branch banking took control of banks out of state's hands and laid it at the feet of a few whores in Washington, It made it alot faster and easier for key whores like McCain to drop to their knees before their corporate "feeders".
I can't sell my few remaining assets to pay creditors because the economy is tight,....since I have assets, I can't find relief in bankruptcy, in 6 years I've seen my wages cut over 50%, the cost of fuel has trippled. Although I sit and strain, there's no golden eggs in the nest, and I'm buckling under the pressure. Hey, Pop, you were right, again. this golden goose is going down for the count. The only comfort in it is knowing eventually, those above me will come join me on the rubbish heap. And, eventually, after the elite have bled this country out and "hopped" to Dubai while trying to see throught their tears of laughter, the real Evil Empire will be bankrupt and the other nations will get a bit of respite before the next group of vultures descends upon them. "The world is, a sad place, a bad place, a terrible place to live, but I don't wanna die." Lyrics from a prophetic tune from decades ago.
A nation of sheep, led by a cartel of whores, controlled by Israel / big business. Welcome,... to the REAL Evil Empire.

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» RE: You remember Posted by: halg
Money is a failed system - monetize the debt
Posted by: metamind on Sep 18, 2007 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Money is a failed system. We need to expand our consciousness of "how money works" rather than focusing on "how we can get it" or "how we use it."

Focus on fundamentals. HOW does money operate? What results does it produce BY ITS NATURE?

1. Debt
2. Concentration of wealth
3. Revolution

Money makes quantity rule over quality.

We need a new economy. I want us to monetize all debt and start over again.
Wipe the slate!

Money is a system. A system has a set of rules. Change the rules!

Money didn't come from God. It is entirely artificial, manmade, and can be changed in any way. It's a set of rules.
Start thinking about it that way and you will start to see solutions to our current predicament.

Money needs competition. That means we need to provide choices in "the system" through government as well as civil society. Commerce is bigger than money.

Barter is more viable than advertising tells us. Food stamps are different from money.
Expand your mind.

See money for what it truly is and then tell everyone the truth. Raise public consciousness.
Set the truth free!

It's important to create alternatives for all economic systems --- government, corporate and human economic systems. We have enough time to examine how a "human-centered globally sustainable" economic system would work.

How's your economy doing?

Blessings!

Steve Moyer


Support an Article V Convention!

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Let's Go A Little Deeper
Posted by: The Leftest on Sep 18, 2007 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John Ince wrote:

"Since in a market-based economy, power and money flow to those who already have it, the people who live at the margins find it increasingly difficult to survive economically. In other words, our economic system as it is has exacerbated inequalities. The stability of the overall economy is threatened by imbalances when increasing numbers of people are marginalized economically.

The conventional wisdom holds that in an ideal society the imbalances can be mitigated either by governmental intervention or by the activities of the social sector. But the conventional wisdom breaks down when the private sector becomes so powerful that the public sector becomes captive of private interests. Suddenly the public sector can no longer act as a counterweight to the consuming self-interest of the private sector. This creates both economic and psychological imbalances that impair the functioning of the entire system, and markets become increasingly unstable. If this is not a fundamental flaw, then I don't know what is."

I think we need to go just a little bit deeper to get at the "fundamental flaws" in the system.

First, our economic system does not just exacerbate inequality, it creates it in the first place. As long as those who actually create wealth do not reap the full fruits of their labor, as long as bankers and industrialists are allowed to take far more than they earn, inequality will not only continue, but on a global scale, it will get worse in the long run. The debt crisis is just a symptom of the fact that "consumers" are, in the first place, "workers" who are being exploited.

Second, the "public sector" has never been so independent of the private sector than it can achieve anything other than marginal alterations in the distribution of wealth, and then only when general prosperity (i.e. profits) are at historically high levels. Thus, during the post New Deal long wave of prosperity of 1945-1973, the US government did redistribute wealth at the margins, but the "private sector" started putting the squeeze on those activities as soon as the long downturn began. They have been squeezing working people, not only in the US but worldwide, for about 30 years now, and the debt crisis is a reflection of the fact that there's little more to be gained by doing so, at least, not without further right-wing political restrictions on freedom, justice, liberty, etc.

The looming question is whether our political system is up to the challenges posed by the coming economic crisis, i.e., whether it will descend further into barbarism, or will have the ability to incorporate progressive change.

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Where Is All The Money?
Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Sep 18, 2007 7:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US is the richest nation on earth, and yet the people are deeply in debt, the businesses are deeply in debt, and the government is deeply in debt. So, if we're so rich, where the hell is all the wealth?

Everyone should watch the Money As Debt video at Google videos.

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» RE: Where Is All The Money? Posted by: messedup
» RE: Where Is All The Money? Posted by: Nedtheredhead
Saw it Coming !
Posted by: Stellaa on Sep 18, 2007 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cannot believe that all these experts did not see it coming. Another set of experts did not see the fiasco in Iraq coming either. Yet, millions of regular people knew the two events would be disastrous.
When 9/11 happened the President asked Americans to go shopping. Yep, Mr. President, they did, but they used their credit cards and the equity in their homes. Debt is like buying money and there are plenty of sharks ready to sell you money at any price. Americans took out their equity, their IRA's, they maxed out credit cards now I hear these sharks on radio wanting to buy their insurance policies and any potential they have for damages from court cases.
Boom and bust, what America was built on. The question is , is this the last or close to the last bust? Where are the margins now? Winners and losers. The losers each time are more and more.

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» RE: Saw it Coming ! Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Saw it Coming ! Posted by: JSquercia
IT'S NEVER A PROBLEM UNTIL
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 18, 2007 8:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While middle and lower class people are getting screwed it goes unnoticed. No matter the problem, it gets no attention until it affects the more comfortable classes. The people loising jobs now are not the $8-$10 crowd. It's the big bucks people. And so it's time to get hysterical and figure out what's wrong. Of course it's been wrong for years, but it didn't affect the 'people who matter'. Same old, same old. Thanks, ANNA

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» That's no correct Posted by: ReallyBearish
» When was it ever right? Posted by: suprmark
» RE: When was it ever right? Posted by: Nedtheredhead
Saw it coming
Posted by: DrSuess on Sep 18, 2007 8:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I belong to a local real estate investors association, and each month we have speakers come in and talk about how to make money in Real Estate. I cannot tell you how many times those speakers talked about the long term effect of all the fancy loans. I have known this is coming for 2 or 3 years. I just didn’t know when it would hit. I remember one speaker at the Ohio Real Estate Investors Association meeting who told me a year ago that California and Florida were going to “roll over”, and that when they did it would become off the scale ugly.
I did not use the term “subprime” because million dollar homes on the beach in California are not subprime. Many of them are on negative amoritization loans however. That’s a fancy term for a loan that is increasing every month because you don’t even pay the interest. People bought too much house- and that goes just as much for the butcher, the baker, and THE TOP CORPORATE HONCHO. Millionaires bought too much house just as much as the hamburger flippers did. I am in Indiana- and the foreclosures are just as bad in the expensive BIG NEW HOME areas as they are in the “impoverished” inner city. I know that the media keeps slamming the term “subprime”- but this is not just a subprime problem.
This is a much bigger problem. There were hundreds and thousands of people involved. The US government wanted to hide the incredible loss of manufacturing jobs- so they pumped money into housing to keep people employed. The banks happily made fees off the loans and sold them to the quazi- government controlled Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. So there was no cost to the loans- only profit as far as the banks were concerned. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac just kept printing money, and taking any loan that fit their criteria.
Countrywide is in trouble now because they made non-conventional loans- loans that could not be sold to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I have one of those loans- it has two houses on one lot- and so it breaks the rules, and cannot be sold off to the Fannie Mae. Another kind of unconventional loan is a $500K+ mortgage. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have a limit on the size of the loan they will buy, and so all the most expensive houses are now in limbo land. The top of the market will have just as much trouble as the bottom of the market.
The government has used the housing market as a piggy bank to hide all the problems in lost manufacturing, and now the disparity between what is happening to family incomes and what is happening in the housing market is so large that it can no longer be hidden. There is no way that this problem will be solved any time soon.

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People buy stuff they can't afford
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Sep 18, 2007 9:43 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Businesses naturally want to make as much money as possible, that should not surprise anyone anymore than cigarettes causing lung cancer.

People are responsible for their actions.

They know what they can and cannot pay for.

If they can't afford to pay cash and they buy it anyway they know they can't afford it.

Almost no one can afford to buy a house outright with cash. That being known, they know damn well they better do the numbers themself to make sure they can make monthly payments on the mortgage without a problem.

Blaming businesses rather than oneself is to live in denial about one's responsibility for one's own life.

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» RE: People buy stuff they can't afford Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» BLAME THE MONEY LENDERS....!! Posted by: militaryhater
» BLAME THE MONEY Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: BLAME THE MONEY LENDERS....!! Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Where does the buck stop? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Where does the buck stop? Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Greenspan is blameless? Posted by: justaguy
» Projection. Posted by: justaguy
» So what? Posted by: justaguy
» I give up. Posted by: justaguy
False premise, John Ince
Posted by: DaBear on Sep 18, 2007 9:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have to deal with the fundamental reality that Americans are addicted to debt.

Addiction begins with a choice between non-addictive behavior and addictive behavior. John wants to investigate those at the margins for the source of the "addiction"? Brilliant. Maybe first investigate why and how people use debt rather than assets/cash... duh, John, because they can get debt but they can't get cash. The debt gets you an asset to make more debt. Debt, at least up front, gets you cash you can't get through working. Do the math, John, you're a finance journalist: calculate how long it would take someone in this economy living a spartan lifestyle to earn enough money to be financially solvent on a minimum wage job, John. It won't work, no matter what calculus or imaginary numerics you employ. That isn't a product of exercising a choice, that's a product of surviving a rigged system by those few who have the power to choose between two things (addiction to debt as a systemic process or cash-income-assets that are aquired through work) limiting everyone else's choices to theirs.

You want to break the addiction to debt? Break the rich and the "job creators" of their addiction to racing to the bottom; spanking highest profit for eviscerating lowest expense. Break the rich and the "job creators" of their addiction to paying people nothing, expecting workers to put out for free. Break the rich and the "job creators" of their addiction to viewing shelter as "real-estate investments." Break the rich and the "job creators" of their addiction to corporate welfare.

I got a simple solution, John, go break the damned rich. They are the core root of the problem. The rest of us are just rats trying to survive in a fracked up system the rich invented, maintain and own. They're the only addicts here. They're the real and only reason things are the way they are.

When we finally deal with the fundamental reality that finance journalists are addicted to ignoring reality and the pathological nature and behaviors of the rich asshats who own it all, then we'll break free of all this crap.

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» RE: False premise, John Ince Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: False premise, John Ince Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
The Ones debt is the Others asset!
Posted by: User280 on Sep 18, 2007 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Capitalism is the communism of the Rich.

Investors capital is a whore - and the stock exchange is the brothel.

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» RE: The Ones debt is the Others asset! Posted by: Constitutionalist75
Debtor Nation-Federal Reserve Connection
Posted by: pl123 on Sep 18, 2007 10:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, as a nation we have poor impulse control on spending. But take a couple of hours out of your day and see www.zeitgeistmovie.com and particularly the part about 40 minutes into it about the creation of the Federal Reserve, and how this group of independent bankers is responsible for the economic woes in this country and a host of other ills. They get even richer with the waging of war, so guess what, since the inception of the Fed Reserve in 1913, we've pretty much been a world at war.
Another good film is Aaron Russo's From Freedom to Facism. Warning: you might need counseling afterwards.

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» Wrong again, Yellow! Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Wha?????? Posted by: justaguy
» You're a delusional idiot. Posted by: justaguy
There is a rational alternative -
Posted by: Constitutionalist75 on Sep 18, 2007 10:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Put aside the delusion of wealth and power because each of us loses it eventually anyway. Instead, pool resources to acquire parcels of land upon which to build a continental network of eco-tech villages free to trade with each other for mutual benefit based on labor credits, one hour's work equal to one credit. That way nobody ever gets rich and arrogant, nor poor and desperate.

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It's all part of the countdown to 2012...
Posted by: helgerry on Sep 18, 2007 11:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's no joke folks! Major changes are coming (sooner than we might think). Old corrupt institutions will all come tumbling down (be they political, economic, social or religious) and "all truth will be revealed"...
There is a major consciousness shift going on. Those with "eyes to see" can see it all too well. But soon it will be undeniable to all!
Never lose sight of the big picture, for that will help you keep your balance in the midst of the turmoil to come.
A new system will emerge slowly from the ashes of the current rotten one where sharing and more responsibility for each other will play a center role. There is no other alternative if we have to survive as a species on this planet. For now, fasten your seatbelts! It's gonna get quite bumpy!

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Education
Posted by: darkgrrrl on Sep 18, 2007 11:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Financial education is minimal or non-existent in American schools. Lots of kids graduate high school lacking the most basic skills in budgeting, bank account management, credit cards, etc.

Then they go off to college, where often there are credit card pushers all over the place. As if tens of thousands of dollars in student loans to afford college wasn't enough.

After (or instead of) college, they get a job. They can't make ends meet or have a surprise expense - next stop is a predatory payday loan.

And during all of this, they are surrounded by a materialistic, consumption-driven culture.

The level of consumer debt is hardly surprising, considering that we're conditioned from birth that we "need" things we cannot afford and poorly prepared to manage the money we do have.

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» RE: Education Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
A little historical perspective:
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Sep 18, 2007 11:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A great source for understanding how this came to be is David Korten's "When Corporations Rule the World". Today is not the first time that an out-of-control financial system has wrecked the US economy - that was at the root of the Great Depression, after all. FDR attempted to reverse that and put finance back under regulatory control:

"By the time Franklin D. Roosevelt became president in 1933, business excesses of the 1920s, the depression, and the resulting plight of farmers, laborers, the elderly, blacks, women and others had produced a wave of political and cultural radicalism throughout the United States. Roosevelt feared that without dramatic action, this radicalism might overwhelm the entire structure of government. He set about to save the system by pushing through an epic agenda of social and regulatory reforms. Congress's passage of his National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA) was key, as it gave government a mandate to play a more active role in achieving an economic recovery that market forces alone seemed unable to manage.

On May 27, 1935, the Supreme Court voided the NIRA and ruled that states could not set minimum wage standards. This decision continued a century-old pattern of Supreme Court defense of business and corporate rights over civil or human rights. The Supreme Court's action on NIRA and the minimum wage radicalized a furious Roosevelt, motivating his commitment to a sweeping reform of American institutions. He set about to break up the business trusts, strengthen the regulation of business and financial markets, and push through legislation providing stronger guarantees for worker rights. Programs of public employment were started, and a social safety net was put into place.

Roosevelt attacked the Supreme Court with a vengeance and tried to expand its membership with new appointments of his choice. His attempt to pack the Court failed, but his charges had a distinct impact on the justices themselves, and the majority became more supportive of progressive initiatives. In the end, Roosevelt's long period in office allowed him to appoint justices to fill seven of the Court's nine seats, setting the Court on a liberal course that lasted until the 1970s, when Republican Richard Nixon began to re-create the Court in its earlier pro-business image."


The Supreme Court and their subsidiaries, the Congress and the Executive Branch are all now largely controlled by financial conglomerate interests. Goldman Sachs is just one example - their CEO is head of Treasury, they are a top donor to the leading Democratic presidential candidates, and no judge or US attorney in the country is likely to dream of prosecuting or finding them guilty for their involvement in the subprime collapse (even though they had an entire fund devoted to the business).

To know the present, one must know the past. Serious change is needed - but with the government in the hands of international finance, it will have to come from the people, or not at all.

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» RE: A little historical perspective: Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: A little historical perspective: Posted by: kelly.nickell
Do not forget...
Posted by: chomsky on Sep 18, 2007 12:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do not forget... the national debt ...
We just passed $9 trillions...
"so each citizen's share of this debt is $29,776.14."

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» RE: Do not forget... Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: Do not forget... Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
Helicopter Ben to the rescue!
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Sep 18, 2007 12:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Helicopter Ben is bailing out wall street yet again. He just dropped interest rates by a half percent. Doing this more or less acknowledges that we are in a recession and that Bush's bs tax cuts for the rich didnt do jack.

Now by lowering interest rates Ben may have saved wall street but he is devaluing the dollar even more. So we all lose. This is yet another example of how this system transfers wealth from everyone to the rich. He has accelerated the rate of inflation. That combined with the 2 billion a day trade deficit makes for a pretty shaky future.

60% of the jobs created since 2001 are directly related to housing, and yet the homebuilder's confidence index dropped to its lowest point, matching the 1991 recession! It is logical and rational to assume that we are heading for a near total loss of ALL of the new housing related jobs created in the last 5 years. Resulting in a zero growth economy for Bush's entire presidency. That is quite an accomplishment considering he has nearly doubled the national debt! One can only wonder... where DID all that money go? The last time something of this magnitude happened to a western country... correct me if I'm wrong but I am pretty sure it was when Hitler confiscated the wealth of the Jews and others in 1930's Germany. Shortly after that he started gassing them.... of course our great and benevolent leader would never do such a thing.

This time around it's not the jews and a select few wealthy dissidents! It's the entire middle class!

I sincerely hope that more people are studying history 50 years from now, and may they have a better understanding of how these things happen, how these events unfold in their early stages. Cause we sure as hell dont!

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I can't own a credit card
Posted by: dajson on Sep 18, 2007 2:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There have been a couple of times in my past when I thought a credit card would be handy to pay off things I've wanted. It's not that I have bad credit, it's that I have no credit, and that's not because I haven't purchased things in the past with payments over time. Those activities of mine just never seem to make it in a credit report. I once used MSN for my Internet browser, (gawd it was awful, never again), and they used to like taking the money out of my checking account at the end of the month when that money sometimes wasn't there. My bank offered me a deal where they can move money from my Savings to my Checking, which would have saved me hundreds in over draft fees, but first I had to pass a credit check. I didn't pass that check. I've come to find out it's because I'm responsible, and pay off all my debts with cash and have nothing going on but the rent. I've come to find out credit companies call my kind something like "dead-beats" who are people sure to pay off the interest and owe credit card companies as close to nothing as a credit card holder can. Maybe we wouldn't all be so addicted to debt if customers of my virtue could possibly even own a credit card. Now I'd like to win the lottery just so when these credit card companies finally find me worthy of their business I can tell them to kiss my A@#@ss. A also admit some feelings of gratification now as these companies go bankrupt one by one from scamming mortgage loans to people who can't pay them back, although I feel for the people loosing their homes because of an adjustable interest scam. Personally I'm not too worried since living close to the bottom means not too far to fall.

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» RE: I can't own a credit card Posted by: Leadbyexample
Trying to dump the dollar?
Posted by: TT5 on Sep 18, 2007 3:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or perhaps the Chinese should do it for you? After all, your going to AHNIALATE there investment anyway!!!

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Hello from another deadbeat
Posted by: wireup on Sep 18, 2007 4:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, sad to say, credit card companies DO refer to people who pay off their credit card balance each month as DEAD BEATS. This term USED to refer to people who did NOT pay their debts. How it came to be used to mean the opposite is a mystery to me.

Be that as it may, I, too, have only one credit card and the reason I haven't torn it up and returned it is that it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to rent a car without a credit card. In fact, if you don't have a credit card in this country, you pretty much don't exist.

So I keep the one card and pay it off each month if I use it. Works for me.

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» RE: Hello from another deadbeat Posted by: blitzmesser
We Own All The Weapons, Who needs money?
Posted by: athamandia on Sep 18, 2007 4:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"When a nation becomes a debtor nation, this signals a fall of international stature, as evidenced by the fall of the Dutch Empire in the 1600s, the Spanish Empire in the 1700s, and the British Empire in the 1800s,"

What has never happened before, though, is when a debtor nation has essentially all the weapons in the world, and is not afraid to use them. I think the current leadership (and future ones as well if we don't WAKE UP) will use these weapons to "secure" whatever we need when the money runs out.

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» Bingo. Posted by: justaguy
» Israeli bashing? Posted by: justaguy
» Jan. 2003? Posted by: justaguy
» Nonsense. Posted by: justaguy
» Weapons Have Accomplished Nothing Posted by: nherkowitz
» Again, so what? Posted by: justaguy
» Oh, what bollocks. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Weapons Have Accomplished Nothing Posted by: kelly.nickell
debt is meaningless compared to other issues
Posted by: Missing Piece on Sep 18, 2007 6:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
debt has no more worth than our money. Listen carefully, our dollar is worthless and peak oil is upon us, buy anything that has a gauranted amount of silver or gold in it. it is the only thing that will shield you from inflation. our society is about to collapse and our debt is a side show. we are almost out of the most energy dense substance known to man, oil. we should have switched to an electron economy by now but big oil makes the rules.

Research it and you will come to the same conclusion. build off the grid asap and get ready to become a subsistance farmer.

good luck

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fractional reserve banking parasitism
Posted by: vzn on Sep 18, 2007 7:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the federal reserve-- possibly the greatest scam of the 20th century.

I saw this quote on huffpost. "the only thing true about class warfare is the war of the rich against the poor"

consider a paper I wrote called "fractional reserve banking as economic
parasitism"

endorsed by two phd economists. printed in nexus
magazine, 60k world circulation. #1 top downloaded
economics paper. used by economics
teacher in australia as standard classroom material.

more info on request.


"fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism"


more info on request.

recent supporting material:

** "confessions of an economic hit man"



** John Perkins on "The Secret History of the American Empire: Economic Hit Men, Jackals, and the Truth about Global Corruption"

**
Video, senator/pres candidate Dennis Kucinich at last years 2005 Monetary Reform Conference



** money as debt video by Grignon

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As bad as the US is, the UK is actually worse
Posted by: Bobsays on Sep 19, 2007 1:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Brits owe more, live packed in like hens in a coop, and as the Commission for Racial Equality points out, associate with people who don't lool like them less and less. I call that a looming powder keg. The economy is only driven by two things: house speculation and the 24/7 casino of the City.

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Congress and Fed Collude to Cause Mortgage Crisis
Posted by: cognitorex on Sep 19, 2007 8:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lessons of Great Depression give way to greed.

The history behind the mortgage fiasco and bank liquidity is a complex long intertwined affair.

After the Great Depression new financial regulations were put in place. For one, banks were barred from equity deals or brokerage operations. Then, fairly recently, Congress and the Fed gave in to the natural greed of the banks and let them return to brokerage/equity dealings. It is in no way surprising that subsequent to dismantling safeguards the present catastrophe should occur. It is axiomatic to allowing banks to invest in speculative fashion outside of regulated asset lending scenarios.

As many have said there is a tie-in here to the S&L debacle.

Congress and the Fed deregulated the S&Ls to give in to the natural greed of the big banks. Prior to deregulation the S&Ls were allowed to pay one half percent more for savings than other banks. That attracted long term secure savings/ assets to the S&Ls which they lent out long term in mortgages. It was a stable arrangement and as a side affect the money stayed local. Coveting these assets the big banks, Congress and the Fed made a devil's pact allowing S&Ls with no experience in non mortgage financing to go deregulated into risky areas. They crashed but the big banks got their hands on the trillions in mortgage assets which became speculative assets, leading to excess and our present liquidity crunch.

My point is that Congress and the Fed have bent to the greed of the big financial institutions and systematically dismantled well thought out needed protections, apparent from The Great Depression.

Now, John and Jane Doe will have to pay higher interest rates for their car loans, etc until the banks eroded capital (much of which was stripped off as fees to individuals) is replaced.

This is simply more organized theft (!**!) like CEO salaries which are actually a form of embezzlement.

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It's all very deliberate
Posted by: Constitutionalist75 on Sep 19, 2007 9:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think Cheny & Bush are deliberately driving the USA toward bankruptcy so they can close down our social services in favor of big corporations ruling our lives from A to Z. Call it corporate totalitarianism.

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» Why not just call it fascism? Posted by: justaguy
You're not asking the right question.
Posted by: AhavahbatSarah on Sep 19, 2007 10:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not "where the money went," it's "where it came from" that is the problem. Most of the "money" you get to pay, for example, the previous owner of the house you just bought is "created" out of the clear blue air as nothing but DEBT. So when, exactly, are the interest amounts you need to pay created? They aren't. It's that simple. The economy has become a giant ponzi scheme because wealth sufficient to pay the principle and interest on all of the loans out there simply doesn't exist. Your "assets" don't even come close to covering it, and neither do the assets of 99% of all other people. We either have to actually create physical things of value, or steal "value" and "wealth" from poor third world countries to make up the difference - or we can keep "refinancing" to make it appear as if the debts are settled when in fact they are not and can never be. The ponzi scheme has to come crashing down eventually, and it appears that "when then will be now" is "soon."

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Money is the problem, not the solution...
Posted by: SevenStarHand on Sep 19, 2007 8:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, how smart is it to figure out that you've been duped, but then to continue participating in the deception, anyway? Pretty foolish isn't it?

Money is a purposeful deception, pure and simple. If humanity were to finally get smart and refuse to ever again get duped by money and those who rule using it, the problem would be solved. Period.

In other words, when we finally cooperate to stop using money then we and our descendants will no longer be forced to slave away to pay for a debt that someone else deceptively imposed upon us. It's that simple. The big question is, will people ever be smart enough to simply cooperate to end the virtual slavery imposed by money.

Here is Wisdom...

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The bifurcation of financial and industrial capital has been a feature of capitalism for 3 decades.
Posted by: yellow on Sep 21, 2007 11:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Deregulating finance has led to volatile interest and exchange rates accelerating the use of hedging and speculative investment for capital gains. The core of profit making has shifted markedly to financial speculation and away from industrial production which has slowed permanently per capita since the global overproduction crisis of consumer durables in the early 1970s. The securitization of credit is a big part of this overall trend and has been profitable but highly unstable. Electronic technology has enabled the rapidity of transnational short term capital flows and speculative activity. By the mid-1990s, nearly $1.5 trillion traded hands daily on a global basis. The dollar ultimately became the victim of debt, trade deficits, tax cuts, and foreign competition. The FED has not led the system to decline but rather followed it as financial markets outgrew its regulatory power, control and oversight in an epoch of general economic stagnation.

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You can't get blood from a stone
Posted by: sfo on Sep 22, 2007 8:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems to me that the wealthy are trying to figure out exactly how much blood they can suck from the working men and women of America before their hosts collapse. That's what they are, a bunch of blood sucking parasites draining us all with their usurious interest rates and lending schemes.

I honestly hope the system does collapse because that is what we need at this point - the credit system to implode.

However, afterwards it is likely that whatever system takes its place will be even worse. Instead of draining the workers to the point that they simply say, "yea, I can't ever pay you back so screw it, I'm walking away", we're going to have a system (we already do thanks to bankruptcy "reform") where they figure out how to turn you into an indentured servant for life.

All I can say is do whatever it takes to stay out of debt.

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Federal Reserve
Posted by: ronheri on Sep 23, 2007 1:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My comment will be short and to the point. The late Aaron Russo, creator of the video "America Freedom to Facism" said at one point:First and foremost we must get rid of The Federal Reserve, (A private banking cartel), then we can deal with the rest of the problems. JFK knew this, and Ron Paul says this. The 911 coverup, the illegal war etc. They are deliberatley bringing down America. These super-rich families wish to control the planet and will stop at nothng. Thats it!

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