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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

Subprime or Subcrime? Time To Investigate and Prosecute

By Danny Schechter, MediaChannel.org. Posted August 10, 2007.


The "subprime" credit crunch is really a sub-crime ponzi scheme in which millions of people are losing their homes because of criminal tactics by financial institutions.
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There comes a time when the frame of a news story changes. It happened in Iraq when the "war for Iraqi freedom" became seen as a bloody occupation, not a beneficent liberation. It is happening as the war on terror is increasingly perceived a war of error and when voting problems are reframed as electoral fraud.

And it will happen in the economic arena too, when we see the "subprime" credit crunch for what it is: a sub-crime ponzi scheme in which millions of people are losing their homes because of criminal and fraudulent tactics used by financial institutions that pose as respectable players in a highly rigged casino-like market system.

Suddenly, after years of denial and inattention, the press has discovered what they call "the credit crisis." Vague words like "woes" are still being used to mask a financial calamity that some analysts are already calling an apocalypse as lenders go under and the Stock Market melts down.

A French bank froze billions Thursday saying, ""The complete evaporation of liquidity in certain market segments of the U.S. securitization market has made it impossible to value certain assets." Translation from the French: We are all in deep shit.

On Thursday morning, President Bush was asked about this at a press conference. He blamed borrowers for not understanding the documents they signed. But if you have ever tried to read the documents banks prepare for mortgage closings, you will know that they are written by risk-minimizing lawyers and are too long and dense to be understood. (Later in the day, the market reacted to Bush's upbeat assessment with the Dow plunging 387 points.)

The financial insiders who watched were more than skeptical. Here are some quotes from a discussion on the Mi-implode Web site. One of the discussants calls our fearless leader, "President Pumpkinhead:"

Why'd president pumpkinhead have a news conference in the morning? Probably hoping no one would see it and he wouldn't have to lie to as many people.

Another described what he was watching with more than disbelief:

"He's being hit with a lot of questions on mortgages, credit crisis, and the economy ... and of course the economy is 'in for a soft landing,' he's been assured by the treasury that 'there is plenty of liquidity,' yadda-yadda-yadda.

But he is stumbling over his words more then usual, not making eye contact, not finishing his sentences ... and when he wonders a bit, he quickly goes back on script. It is very odd to watch, to say the least."

"Odd?" Not for him, but, of course, there is more than one man to hold accountable. This is a deeper structural problem that implicates a whole industry and the process of "financialization" it promotes. This crisis is an example of what goes around comes around as the companies that suspended their usual "standards" and "rules" and self-styled "due diligence" knowingly sucked money out of people with poor credit records and who now find their own companies imploding and collapsing worldwide. Many of the victims are people of color. They were targeted by predators.

Underscore that this was done deliberately, with forethought and malice, a well orchestrated plan to create armies of "suckers" and steal -- yes, I said it -- their monies to leverage even bigger deals. Their greed had no limits, until the scheme collapsed.

Behind it all were the so-called "Masters of the Universe," the wise men of Wall Street who worked behind the scenes to turn mortgage brokers and small lenders into part of what will one day be seen as a criminal network worthy of prosecution under the RICO conspiracy laws used against the mob and drug dealers. Read this account from the Wall Street Journal:

Lou Barnes, co-owner of a small Colorado mortgage bank called Boulder West Inc., has been in the mortgage business since the late 1970s. For most of that time, a borrower had to fully document his income. Lenders offered the first no-documentation loans in the mid-1990s, but for no more than 70% of the value of the house being purchased. A few years back, he says, that began to change as Wall Street investment banks and wholesalers demanded ever more mortgages from even the least creditworthy -- or "subprime" -- customers.
"All of us felt the suction from Wall Street. One day you would get an email saying, 'We will buy no-doc loans at 95% loan-to-value,' and an old-timer like me had never seen one," says Mr. Barnes. "It wasn't long before the no-doc emails said 100%."

Digg!

See more stories tagged with: market regulation, rico, market crash, mortgage, subprime, credit

News Dissector Danny Schechter edits Mediachannel.org and directed the new film "In Debt We Trust: America Before The Bubble Bursts." To get involved, visit Stopthesqueeze.org.



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Here's the real problem with lenders
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 10, 2007 12:00 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They make tons of money without doing a damn thing! We know it as Compound Interest Rates. You know, the sweet little deal that allows you the pay three times the value of your house in interest payments. How about that car loan? Same thing.
What we need to do is create a Non Profit Banking system.
One that charges a 'Flat Rate Interest' it would work like this.
Say you get a loan for $100,000 and the flat rate is 10%. That would make the whole note $110,000. No matter how long it took to pay off. maybe it's time to Think Outside the System
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez it's the only vote that counts

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» RE: Here's the real problem with lenders Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» WVCSR.ORG . . . Zeitgeist Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
It's called laundring
Posted by: Ghoulman on Aug 10, 2007 12:07 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
isn't it?

The US economy has gone from being industry based to being a bubble in the last 20 years (Reaganomics). With deregulation corporations were able to get richer and richer, especially when they outsourced labour.

Once the bubble bursts... what do you have? Government bailout.

As a Canadian... trust me, it's an old story around here. The only difference is that the US economy is massive compared to ours and affects the entire world. And, hey, Aericans might wanna pay attention to all those nations buying Euros like candy.

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Will the Democrats step up and fight the usurious bankers? I doubt it
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Aug 10, 2007 12:10 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but we'll see. Oh yes, they might make a few, subtle changes but they won't go after the BIGGEST PREDATORY LENDER of all, which is the private bank that manipulates our currency and monetary policy--the "Federal" Reserve (which is privately owned and lends money to the US Treasury with interest.)

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» More total stupidity Posted by: janvdb
» Your total stupidity Posted by: Krain61
We have an obligation to teach children and adults how to handle money.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Aug 10, 2007 12:19 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having the State step in with it's police powers to ultimately determine who gets a loan and who doesn't isn't the right answer for a free and liberal society. Having said that, financiers should be regulated such they have the ability to absorb the risk they take without their decisions regarding credit-worthiness spread beyond their own portfolios.

We also need to do a better job of teaching people personal finance before the school of hard knocks takes over. Balancing a checkbook in home ec., U.S. free enterprise, and a two-day survey of the compound interest formula squeezed between Pythagoras and Archimedes in 10th grade Algebra doesn't cut the mustard. And yes, simplifying financial documents would also help, in my opinion.

Many of the victims are people of color.

^ This directed at the inhabitants of evil Translucentsville?

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FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE I AGREE WITH PRESIDENT PUMPKINHEAD
Posted by: HistArch on Aug 10, 2007 12:29 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's right, the reason for this is the horrible financial skills of Americans. I was offered a subprime adjustable rate mortgage for a townhouse I wanted to buy last year. Using my brain (you know that thing that tells you what's up when the TV is off) I figured out that based on the situation in the real estate market right now, my loan's rate would adjust at the wrong time. Even though I was pre-approved and pretty much had the funding, I decided against taking the loan and saved a lot of headache.

The problem with most Americans is they take the mediated images all around them as truths and realities. The BS American Dream was never real and is a simulacra created by advertising and regurgitated back to us as something that we need to become. The fallaciousness of this is now being seen through the sub-prime debacle. In the early 1900s, an individual needed around 50% of the cost of a home. After WWII you needed about 10%. Now you don't need any money to get a house. But most of the time 10% is still what you need to qualify for a real loan (fixed rate). Buying a house with a sub-prime ARM is like gambling and everyone knows the house always wins.

So all the people who impulsively bought a house without the discipline needed to save and manage thousands of dollars deserve to lose their home. And lenders who forgot thousands of years of financial laws and lent out the $ for essentially fiscal idiots to buy a home deserve to go bankrupt. As with all depressions, those who know the laws of money will end up okay and those who don't probably won't make it.

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Tag, guess who is IT!
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Aug 10, 2007 12:51 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fisrt Bush isn’t entirely wrong when he says people should understand what they sign. But the issues are deeper than that..

I might be wrong on this without having the beloved sources you liberals so love. .but I believe Sec.8 (low income) housing funds have been cut over the Bush years.. Combine this with the fact that credit requirements have been relaxed without a corresponding increase in bank reserves to cover the risky loans.. and you have an entirely new class of home owners - congratulations!!!!! and a new level of risk!

Bankers KNEW that rates would adjust upward and while a low income person may not be able to assess the impact of a 1 to 2 point increase in the mortgage rate, this should have been spelled out clearly to them.

Chances are though that like anyone else, they’d sell their soul, and liquidity, to jump into home ownership ..

Hence banks take over the house or reduce rates, which they cannot – their bowworing rates increase etc..etc.. they reaped what the sewed.

And when these banks are audited, how is it that these potential liabilities were not reflected.. state bank auditors evidently didn’t not blow the whistle either.. what circumstances surrounded this – they are pretty tight on audits and reserve requirements being met.

So who are the victims here. .the poor who were given a chance at home ownership – investors who again relied upon a system of checks and balances (audits) to at least give a comfort level as to where their money is parked – and --Joe America who will be paying for this in any number of ways as the effect ripples throughout our economy.

Combine this with a trillion$$ sent off to Iraq, and no chance of recouping this through their oil revenue and America has been hoodwinked a few ways!

So one needs looks beyond Bush who seems to be surrounded with people who do not fully comprehend the magnitude situation to a system that let this happen.. The $1 trillion $ question – who fell asleep at the wheel! – it really doesn’t matter though.. whose ever watch it happened on is IT. And Bush is IT!

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» RE: Tag, guess who is IT! Posted by: dover23
» RE: Tag, guess who is IT! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Tag, guess who is IT! Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Tag, guess who is IT! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Tag, it's... Orange County? Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Tag, it's... Orange County? Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Tag, guess who is IT! Posted by: Trazom
» Do you remember? Posted by: Krain61
the damage isn't just in the sub-prime market...
Posted by: babs on Aug 10, 2007 1:20 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is also happening in the regular mortgage market - folks who qualify with good credit, a double digit percentage down, and a low fixed interest rate are experiencing foreclosure at an alarming rate. This news is spiking losses and instability in the U.S. and international stock markets even more.

Job losses, outsourcing, off shoring and lax regulation of financial players and funders contributes to real estate markets in near collapse in many parts of America (Detroit for one). Atlanta, which is considered a bellwhether or an average mix of low/medium/large value homes market, is experiencing record foreclosures on secured above-prime mortgages, not to mention the sub-prime losses.

What are the banks and other lenders going to do with an inventory of foreclosed properties that they can't auction off to recover even a percentage of their investments? Bankruptcy and failure for even the most scrupulous lenders - brought to you by your corporate-friendly regulation-fearing friends in DC, who will never miss a meal and have owned their palatial homes and ranches for generations.

Remember when you can't afford bootstraps to pull up, the Super 8 motel has vacancies, for now. Maybe FEMA needs to dust off those formaldehyde-rich, as yet unused Katrina trailers to house all the "deadbeats" who didn't have law degrees or access to good legal advice when they signed on to buy a piece of the "American Dream TM".

"E pluribus unum" should be changed to a more bushy slogan like "It's all your own fault".

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BobAlew
Posted by: bobalew on Aug 10, 2007 1:32 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's not the WHOLE Story, however. If you want to see the REAL history of the SubPrime Market, you have to look no further than to investigate the story of FAIRBANKS CAPITAL, a Salt Lake City based subsidiary of PMI, the Primary Mortgage Insurance Group, the Main supplier of Mortgage insurance for the First-time buyers market. They Now operate under a differnt name, but continue to pull the same BS, for which they were indicted by the FTC before, intentionally causing Late payments, with Improper & Untimely Posting of mortgage payments for thier customers, who could ill pay for any defense of these dishonest practices. This company is a literal Foreclosure Mill, serepticiously adding secret "LATE FEES" and "$900 'Drive By Apprasials' " to their customers bills, which had to be paid before any payments were applied to thier Mortgage Balance, thus forcing many into Foreclosure and Public Auction, many times, not even bothering to inform their customers of such ongoing actions. Imagine, being retired, and ill, living in your home, making timely payments, and one day a knock on your door, by the County Sherrif, telling you that you have to leave your property immediately, as it has just been sold at auction, totally without your knowledge, and you'll get the idea of what the main thrust of the Sub-prime market is all about.... They are veritable Foreclosure mills, who prey off the poor, and those with fixed incomes, who can ill afford to defend themselves from a predatory and dishonest mortgage company. The Homes & Properties are sold at auction, and the Actual fees, and over-charges are subtracted form the Auction price, to feed these greedy bastards, so there's really no downside to their operation; THEY ALWAYS GET THEIR IlLL GAINED PROFITS! I Speak from Personal Experience, I Have documented evidence of this from my Cousins, who lost their property in exactly this manner......
Regards, Bobalew

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Actually, the whole system is a Ponzi scheme
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Aug 10, 2007 1:54 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We're at the point in the Kondratiev wave where credit MUST expand or the system collapses. Conservasaurus is right in that the folks surrounding Bush are pushing this nonsense on a gullible public. I think he's wrong when we says that they don't understand what they're doing.

When Ravi Batra wrote THE GREAT DEPRESSION OF 1990, he based his prediction on the inability of the middle class to pay back their loans. As it turns out, Washington was able to carry the system along for another 15 years by getting even more clever about the management of the flim-flam credit system (and the ability of the Japanese and later the Chinese in carrying the system even further along it's road to destruction).

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Hilarious
Posted by: Whitecliff on Aug 10, 2007 2:08 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's so bad that you now have European/Australian/Chinese/Japanese central banks bailing out American businesses!

Ah, you have to love it when publically-funded governments pick up the tab of private businesses...this injection of public capital in to private businesses just shows what a scam and fraud the whole system is.

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» But They Did'nt Posted by: apophenia_monkey
The rule of unintended consequences of short-term greed
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 10, 2007 2:58 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know, this kind of thing is the reason that Islam formally banned interest on loans as one of it's precepts. Well... that's just hilarious, seeing how every Islamic dictatorship (i.e. the Five Families of the Gulf States) is heavily invested in the US economy! They just get their pet clerics to issue fatwahs in their favor (just like buying absolution from the Church!).

What does this mean? First, the Saudi arms deal that the Israelis are all upset about is almost certain to go through - finance needs the cash.

Secondly, a bunch of people are losing their homes, but they won't float away - they'll enter that special category of 'real-estate-owned' buildings. Of course Bush is all for finance - his #1 donor is MBNA, and like most corportate politicians, his money comes first from finance. This is yet another transfer of assets from the middle class to the billionaire class.

So, how does this work? Why did so many people jump for these loans? This is going on all across the country - take this Austin subprime foreclosure study

"In order to look more closely at subprime activity in the Austin San Marcos MSA, we combined four years of MSA level HMDA data and information from the new census. We found that subprime lending was concentrated among minority borrowers, women borrowers, and borrowers in neighborhoods with a higher concentration of elderly people.

Savings and loan scandal, redux.

As far as the PR techniques involved, I'd recommend this Salon article, This is your subprime brain on drugs - all about the PR methods used to sell money to naive suckers.

The facts that a French bank froze funds, and China is threatening (apparently seriously) to dump their $1 trillion in US currency - that's just hilarious. China has been keeping it's export wealth in U.S. Treasury bonds, which are (were?) secure. They are also easily converted to cash... but what happens if China pulls a trillion dollars out of the US Treasuries over fear of an impending crisis due to the subprime mess?

China Threatens to Sell Off Treasury Bonds, Aug 10 2007

That's right, everyone - thanks to the idiotic globalization programs, the unfair trade agreements pushed by Clinton, and by Bush, and the dishonesty of the corporate media - well, America's future now belongs to China! Could the Saudis freak out and do the same thing? Run, little investors, run...

Remember - there are two rules to finance. #1 is Don't Panic. #2 is Panic First.

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» let's have the whole quote, shall we? Posted by: thoughtcriminal
From those nice folks who brought us Reagan-omics.
Posted by: JayMagoo on Aug 10, 2007 3:38 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is one of the wonderful results of deregulation. Under Reagan we were told the free-market economy didn't need regulation. We were told that the businessmen could be trusted to deal honestly with the public, that their intrinsic sense of justice and fair play would operate in a free, unregulated market to service all Americans well. Believe that and I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn that I can sell you cheap.
Well, our honorable businessmen promptly set out to foist adjustable rate mortages with laughable credit checks and no down payments on any buyer who could breath and lift a pen to sign on the dotted line. Don't bother about the fine print, trust us.
Well, the Real Estate people walked off with their profit, the mortgage company walked off with their profit, the mortgages were bundled together and shipped around until they were unrecognizable, and suddenly -- crash! Boom! the whole thing comes tumbling down. The good Republican bankers are all sitting on their profits as though they had nothing to do with it, the mortgage companies are looking innocent, the real estate people already spent their commissions.
Who pays? We do, of course. Our taxes will bail out all the fat-cat Republicans, just like it always happens.
And poor old Dumbo Bush hasn't the foggiest idea what's going on. Just like usual.

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This looks even more out-of-control then I thought
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 10, 2007 3:57 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Background Aug 11 Primer on global banking from Asia Times Online (looks like someone is trying to encourage Asian central banks to engage in economic warfare against US and European banks - what a spectacle. Wanna buy my $45,000 in defaulted student loan debt, anyone? Or you can just eat it.)

Federal Reserve injects $38 billion in three consecutive pushes on Fri

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Reserve provided the banking system with $38 billion on Friday, the largest amount of liquidity since the days after the September 11 attacks six years ago, adding ample funds for the second day running as financial markets fretted over credit conditions.

The Fed also took the unusual step of making a rare statement after the first operation -- the first time it's done so since the September 11, 2001, terror attacks -- in an effort to calm investors' fears....

U.S. stock indexes sharply cut their morning losses after the Fed's second liquidity injection but losses accelerated after the third injection...

...The last time the central bank made a similar statement was after the September 11, 2001, terror attacks, when it also said it would do what was necessary to keep markets functioning normally. The Fed made a similar vow in October 1987 following a precipitous decline in U.S. stock markets....


So, the Fed is converting toilet paper into $20 bills. Amazing how they can just "create wealth" like that, isn't it... or is that the right term? Well, they call it liquidity. The European Union did the same thing, to the tune of US$130.2 billion (=94.8 billion euro).

Note to all those Third World countries suckered into signing trade agreeents with the US that allow cash to flow freely over borders - that giant sucking sound you are hearing is US and European investors pulling cash out of your economies.

However, there seems to be a big problem here - thanks to BushCo's gutting of SEC reporting requirements, noone knows what big equity funds and banks are at risk! See Nobody knows who is exposed to subprime problem

Raghuram Rajan: Well, certainly the Central Banks, all three of them, the big ones, Japan, the US Federal Reserve and the ECB have been injecting liquidity. When they do that you start asking yourself is there something they know that we don't know

Well. What's the Chinese curse? May you live in interesting times? You know... I'm ashamed to admit I feel a certain sense of glee at the thought of the corrupt bankers who backed Bush and the Iraq war losing their shirts.

Is that wrong?

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» Shirts Starched Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» I Don't Think It is Wrong Posted by: Gravitas
Slimebags are us
Posted by: Bambi on Aug 10, 2007 4:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seen this one coming for years. I moved from Oregon to Cali for a short time from 04 to 06. I had the displeasure to meet folks in real estate and lending during those two years.

Honestly, my cat could get a loan in Cali ... 0 down and often the paperwork was cooked. I was horrified. Prices were going up so fast, lenders seemed more interested in getting people hooked on their loans than in taking time to examine the whole picture of their lendees.

Hey, those interest only loans were a lender's dream come true ... at refinance time, they had their customers by the short hairs. But wait, the bubble burst, and mortgage payers bailed....oops.

This time instead of the taxpayers bailing out the lenders (ala the S&L Scandal), it's the world economy ... pretty slick, eh? Remember how the Bu$hco clan was involved in that scandal? I do.

Our neighbor (failed his real estate test 5 times) made a fortune by making crappy loans under the license of someone else ... all done from his garage.

I could go on and on and on, but won't. I lived in Guerneville, CA the year our town editor, Steve Pizzo broke the Savings and Loan Scandal ... that was how Bu$hco and posse started to learn their chops. The big enchalada is the pension funds and Social Security ... they're on their way.

The Neocons have wanted to turn this into a third world country for a long time ... and it's working because main stream Democrats are too greedy and lazy to really get crackin'....imho.

Bambi

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THERE IS ALWAYS ONE SOLUTION
Posted by: pirugenia on Aug 10, 2007 5:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
TO DRINK IN EXCESS. I remember this silly advice when I think of our current financial world-scale predicament.
When the 12 families that are called THE FED cannot depend anymore on selling US to China, where are they going to get the hundred billions a day needed to pump the world economy back to life? Not from the Europeans, who are terrified of this armed teen on meth called the US.
So, what is the last resource? NARCOTRAFFIC MONEY.
Why only weeks ago the biggest (private citizen) drug bust in history took place in Mexico, involving a Chinese legal-meth empresario with PharmaCorp links to usa and hong kong companies (Dragon this, Dragon that). 207 MILLION DOLLARS CASH. And it was all sent to Bank of America for "authenticating" the money. B of A says it returned it to Mexico. Maybe. The international press is trying not to give it any more coverage.
How many more billions in cash are floating around in the pharmabanks underground tunnel dug by both countries to connect their economies?
Sub-prime? Everything is "sub" nowadays.
Like he said: "Don't despair, there is always one solution..."

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» RE: THERE IS ALWAYS ONE SOLUTION Posted by: kelly.nickell
Kevin Phillips in Wealth and Democracy was dead on,
Posted by: marid on Aug 10, 2007 5:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the financialization of the American economy. ie a situation where paper passing between criminals (the investment bankers) is seen as economic development. The piece of paper has no real value and produces nothing, but we worship the paper. For goodness sake why do we have Wall Street reports, which they expect us to listen to with bated breath? They are nothing but BS from the bilkers of America. At least Vegas lets you know you are going to lose. Spain, Holland, England; all these empires fell victim to the same scheme.

Maybe this is why our founders forbid any foreign banks in America? But of course they got around that too didn't they.

The capital gains tax cuts raised the paper dollar to the position of holiness in America. It (the dollar) has no expenses, needs no shelter, food, water medical care, or anything else. it just continues to eat us up with the current tax structure. Another fine mess brought to you by the people in the top 1% who run the world.

When the Gross Domestic Product is the basis for how the American people are doing would you expect anything else?

The Sheep better look up, that ain't the shears they are coming with.

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Welfare for the Wealthy
Posted by: Whitecliff on Aug 10, 2007 7:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, you now have the Federal Reserve bailing out all of these PRIVATE businesses which are currently tanking.

This just shows that TRUE capitalism does not exist in America, because if it did governmental agencies would be completely hands-off when it comes to these matters of PRIVATE BUSINESSES.

The federal bailout just shows the hypocrisy of Wall Street, big corporations, etc. -- they want the U.S. government completely HANDS OFF when it comes to taxes and so forth, but when they are in trouble they expect, nay DEMAND, that The Fed step in to save their slimy asses to keep their companies from sinking. How pathetic is that?

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» RE: Welfare for the Wealthy Posted by: kelly.nickell
Saw a new sign today
Posted by: VannaLaRoche on Aug 10, 2007 7:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been seeing For Sale, For Sale Reduced, For Sale Many Extras! For Sale By Owner, For Sale Owner Will Finance! For Sale Must Sell!, For Sale $0 Down, Rent To Own, For Rent For Rent For Rent For Rent For Rent For Rent For Rent,

and today I saw the first For Sale In Foreclosure sign.

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broken and incompetent government
Posted by: Doubtom on Aug 10, 2007 10:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is yet another perfect example of our clever government forever playing "catch-up" with the criminal schemes that have been ongoing with the blessings or the ignorance of our elected officials. A lot of lobbyist money has been flowing into the various agencies with responsibility for regulating or controlling these lending institutions. They've been milking the public for years and like the insurance companies, they pay lots of money to our elected officials to 'insure' that they can keep on doing it. It's part of what keeps us forever in debt and under control. There's no one more docile than someone who stands to lose his home at the whims of corporations who are so powerful that they get to write the laws authorizing their brand of thievery.

No other industry has the power of the insurance corporations.
The insurance industry enjoys the unique priviledge of having a law that requires that you buy their product.(Car insurance.)And, I'll bet they got to write that law too!

We need to realize that corporations have to be brought under control. They were never intended to control our government; we allowed this creeping slavery by letting money into our political process. We need get private money out of our politics, with stiff criminal penalties for those who get involved.

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Those Who Don't know History....
Posted by: gellero on Aug 10, 2007 11:07 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, mandatory auto insurance was forced on the public by state legislators ( mostly Democrats in the Northeast ) who were bought and paid for by the Trial Lawyer lobby. (FYI they were the largest contributing group to the Clinton campaign) . The insurance companies just went along for the ride. Hey.....more lawsuits = more premiums = more profit.
And Sub Prime lending?? If there were income and asset restrictions on Mortgage loans, the biggest whiners are always the so called 'Progressives' with their cries of 'discrimination' and 'racial profiling'. You reap what you sow.
Check my previous posts.....I predicted a market drop to 11,000 in a few months... guess I was correct. Get out of equities, except those that are gold based. This is just a major market correction. But don't worry, you'll still be able to have a nice life with everything made in China.
And don't blame the 'Republican Industrialists' for that.......they fought it all the way to keep their factories here humming. Outsourcing and NAFTA were a DEMOCRATIC PARTY priority. Remember Ross Perot's debate with Al Gore?? Perot predicted this and Al Gore - hero of the 'progressives' insulted him on TV.
Most who post on this board probably have never seen or used a silver coin. Most don't even know what our Constitution says about money, and what it is mandated to be. But then again, 'Progressives' seem to believe wealth and property are the rightful domain of the collective, and not the individual.
Educate yourself on what is happening to you....
READ ABOUT YOUR DOOMED JOB

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» RE: So, what above is inaccurate? Posted by: kelly.nickell
» YOU'RE WRONG !! Posted by: gellero
» RE: YOU'RE WRONG !! Posted by: kelly.nickell
told you so
Posted by: schnoggi on Aug 11, 2007 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
oh no, there's no bubble, just keep drinking the damned koolaid. damn I wish there was a law against stupid people, now everyone else is going to have to eat it because of all these gullible goldfish.

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» soylent green is PEOPLE! Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
systemic problems go beyond sub-primes and "no-docs"
Posted by: DaBear on Aug 11, 2007 3:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They go to the heart of a credit report and the notion of a credit score. When a consumer has zero rights to challenge factual errors in a credit report, and then the system pegs the "score" to that factually bankrupt credit report, you have subprimes. It goes way beyond No doc loans.

In 1998 a couple was able to get a "regular" mortgage. Nothing changed but a factual error that even an attorney couldn't get changed on their credit report. Bingo, they got stuck with a subprime. Only the realty/finance folks didn't call it that, and the couple gave them a six inch stack of income documentation going back ten years. The couple kept asking questions to which "just trust us" was the constant non-substantive reply. They weren't given a good faith estimate even, the broker claiming, we're still working on the figures.... right up to escrow signing time.

When the couple showed up to sign docs (for 98 minutes straight) they began to read and question what they were signing. The couple were threatened by the sellers' agent, the sellers and their attorney with a lawsuit for trying to back out of the deal, a deal they didn't understand and hadn't been allowed to examine before hand. Being only able to afford x for living expenses and shelter, and not being privileged people of means, and having exhausted their savings and cut into their proceeds from the sale of their home to pay the attorney to try to fix the inaccurate credit report, with two small kids, now homeless, school starting and all the other pressure, they did what every frightened disempowered, broke couple does, they caved in because having a roof over their heads was their primary concern. Later, an attorney doing a probono favor for a friend of theirs looked over their docs and their situation and said, "you should sue the lender and the broker, maybe even the sellers' and their agent. It will take 5 years and at least $150K in fees." Turns out if the report had been fixed, their "score" would have merited a "normal" loan. But by then the couple had nothing but a subprime financed place to live, all of the proceeds from the sold place used up on the downpayment and in fixing the surprise of the sellers' hidden damage to the home, damage a skillful agent covered up and the couple's naive greenhorn agent didn't know how to catch.

All because that little credit score pegged to a report to which Americans have no rights that allow them to enforce accuracy from unaccountable corporations. The problem of subprimes extends to the very notion of credit score, some Harvard rich kid's brainchild, and corporate controlled, owned, and maintained credit reports without any consumer rights to level the field. This feeds the subprime machine. That machine will render the couple homeless sometime in the next 60 days. God bless 'Merkuh.

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In all fairness
Posted by: kathat on Aug 11, 2007 3:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's not just the lack of financial skills that cause people to take out risk loans. When you look around and personally know people who have made a bundle of money by rolling over houses and every other t.v. ad is about refinancing....it's hard to resist. The real estate agents have a cure for everything. They tell you when the interest goes up, you sell, and your credit will be better, so you'll get a lower interest loan. I know many people who have been in their homes 20-30 years and have refinanced about 4 or 5 times and are paying a much higher mortgage and will never own their house.
I think it's a scam when the banks use credit rating to gauge interest rates on home loans. It should be regulated so that it gets higher with worse credit, but there should be a cap. And when you have bad credit and make you mortgage on time for say, 5 years, the rate should go lower as a reward.
There are many predatory lending scams out there all aimed at the least fortunate among us. Payday loans at 300% , Rent to Own at very nearly that. It needs to end.

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» RE: In all fairness Posted by: kelly.nickell
Wessex
Posted by: Wessex on Aug 12, 2007 6:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember Neil(?) Bush and Silverado?! How is it that such "families" continue to profit from their mistakes at enormous public expense, and without negative consequences to themselves? Extending unlimited and perpetual "credit" to De Massas and their minions would seem to be some source of such problems. Indeed, they only seem to accumulate MORE power and influence! For instance, is Bush Senior and Carlisle Corp. involved in the recent Mid East Arms dealing? Why and how do they remain above reproach? "Oh, Darkies, how my heart grows weary..."

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remember silvarado and the savings and loan bail out?
Posted by: wleming on Aug 12, 2007 7:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please Americans remember Silverado, and the Savings and Loan bail out which cost the US tax payers billions upon billions?
Oh yes, the winner in the Silverarado bailout was the brother of the current

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another promo for the American Monetary Institute
Posted by: dmaciewski on Aug 13, 2007 8:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Keeping my personal economics so far below the radar screen doesn't help, but I posed a question to Stephen Zarlenga(professor and author of the "Lost Science of Money"; an interesting, expansive historical work that offers a concrete solution. Attributes the decline of all cizilizations since Greece and Rome to how the monetary system was handled) at the American Monetary Institute, and he swears that if the United States takes the measures that Britain did back in 1940's, and take control of it's currency, the sup-prime mortgage problem would disappear. Honestly, I'm skeptical of the assertion, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

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This is the flip side of housing discrimination
Posted by: BeeGee on Aug 13, 2007 10:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The alternative to not giving loans to people who didn't really qualify for them was, in many cases, denying loans to people who were brown or black, since these American demographics, on average, have lower incomes and higher unemployment rates than people who are white or yellow. Had they not received these loans, antidiscrimination forces would have started screaming "Housing discrimination." There's no easy solution, really.

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Government Pushes Homeownership
Posted by: anothername on Aug 13, 2007 11:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The criminal is not the sub-prime market or even the people who stretched to buy or to refinance a home. The criminal is the government policy (supported by both Republicans and Democrats and in force for many, many years) that pushes homeownership as one of the top methods by which Americans can build wealth and control their own destinies.

This government policy thus drove not-for-profits, banks, developers, and other people eager to profit from government money to build too many houses, to forsake tenants rights legislation or programs, and to promote and to to help low income or border-line income citizens to buy homes they could not afford.

I knew teachers, business owners, and other pillars of their communities who lived in the same apartment for 50-60 years, even without rent control or rent stabilization. I know of upper-income individuals who calculate that they can invest their money better by not owning their home. I know people who rent their residence who also own rental property as an investment.

Yet, I also have seen government literature that degrades tenants and promotes homeowners as being responsible. I also remember when the laws were changed to encourage people to sell their homes and buy bigger homes every 2-5 years. If I had had the foresight to know that I would stay someplace for two years, I would have been churning houses several times over the last decade.

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