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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

Clinton Economists: A Storm Is Coming

By William Greider, The Nation. Posted July 17, 2006.


Economists from the Clinton era were once the biggest cheerleaders for free trade and pro-business policies -- but now economic uncertainties have them singing a different cheer.
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When Robert Rubin speaks his mind, his thoughts on economic policy are the gold standard for the Democratic Party. The former Treasury Secretary, now executive co-chair of Citigroup, captured the party's allegiance in the 1990s as principal architect of Bill Clinton's governing strategy, the conservative approach known as "Rubinomics" (or less often "Clintonomics"). Balancing the budget and aggressively pushing trade liberalization went hard against liberal intentions and the party's working-class base. But when Clinton's second term ended in booming prosperity, full employment and rising wages, most Democrats told themselves, Listen to Bob Rubin and good things happen.

So it's a big deal when Robert Rubin changes the subject and begins to talk about income inequality as "a deeply troubling fact of American economic life" that threatens the trading system, even the stability of "capitalist, democratic society." More startling, Rubin now freely acknowledges what the American establishment for many years denied or dismissed as inconsequential--globalization's role in generating the thirty-year stagnation of US wages, squeezing middle-class families and below, while directing income growth mainly to the upper brackets. A lot of Americans already knew this. Critics of "free trade" have been saying as much for years. But when Bob Rubin says it, his words can move politicians, if not financial markets.

Rubin has launched the Hamilton Project, a policy group of like-minded economists and financiers who are developing ameliorative measures to aid the threatened workforce and, he hopes, to create a broader political constituency that will defend the trading system against popular backlash. A strategy paper Rubin co-wrote defines the core problem: "Prosperity has neither trickled down nor rippled outward. Between 1973 and 2003, real GDP per capita in the United States increased 73 percent, while real median hourly compensation rose only 13 percent."

Astorm is coming, Rubin fears. He wants a new national debate around these facts. In an interview, he explains the danger he foresees for global trade: "Where there's a great deal of insecurity, where median real wages are, roughly speaking, stagnant...where a recent Pew poll showed 55 percent of the American people think their kids will be worse off than they are, I think there is a real danger of heightened difficulty around issues that are already difficult, like trade.... Look at the difficulty around immigration." Princeton economist Alan Blinder, a Hamilton participant and Federal Reserve vice chair in the Clinton years, describes the "difficulty" in more ominous terms: "I think the prospects for the liberal trade order are not great," he says. "There's a whole class of people who are smart, well educated and articulate, and politically involved who will not just sit there and take it" when their jobs are moved offshore. He thinks CNN commentator Lou Dobbs, who has built a populist following by attacking globalization and immigration, "is just the beginning -- nothing compared to what's going to happen in the future."

What should we make of Rubin's heightened concern for the "losers" who, he now recognizes, include a vast portion of the populace? Many view the Hamilton Project as just more talk-talk. I regard it as an important event -- a "course correction" in elite thinking that, given Rubin's influence, may reshape the familiar trade debate, at least among Democrats. Rubin's central objective, however, is to control the terms of debate: to address the economic disparities globalization has generated but without disturbing anything fundamental in the global system itself.

His program consists mostly of familiar ideas that might soften the pain for displaced workers. But I doubt the Hamilton proposals will do much, if anything, to reduce the global forces that are depressing incomes for half or more of the American workforce. Even Rubin is uncertain. When I ask if his agenda will have any effect at all on the global convergence of wages -- the top falling gradually toward the rising bottom -- he says: "Well, I think that's a question to which nobody knows the answer. I think the proposals and approach we are proposing are the way to get the best possible outcome for the United States in a complicated world. ... But whether that's going to stop the global convergence of wages, I don't know the answer to that. I would guess the answer is no."

Despite my skepticism about his policy ideas, I think Rubin is providing a significant opening for the opposition -- a new chance for labor-liberal reformers to make themselves heard with a more fundamental critique of globalization. Up to now, the standard trade debate has been utterly simple-minded -- "free trade good, no trade bad" -- and anyone who opposes trade agreements or WTO rules is dismissed as a backward "protectionist." The enlightened position, as major media always explain, is to support the "win-win" promise of globalization.

Only Rubin is departing a bit from that script, effectively accepting the opposition's central complaint that "win-win" is a cruel distortion of what's happening. If so many Americans are actually losing ground, Rubin asks, shouldn't government do something about that? Yes, certainly, but that admission invites a different question: Are his establishment proposals actually likely to improve the American condition, or does the wage deterioration require more aggressive reforms?

Ideas do matter. My hope for more complex and honest debate may sound too wishful, but I was struck in our lengthy interview by Rubin's willingness to discuss contrary propositions, and by his disarmingly self-effacing and reflective manner. Several times, I was taken aback when his comments made tentative concessions to the opposition's argument. He even endorsed, though only in broad principle, some objectives for reforming global trade that his critics have long advocated.

I suggest that reformers test his sincerity. In the same spirit, they might try to initiate a conversation about what Rubin calls the "conceptual framework" for reform. He says he would welcome the discussion.

The Hamilton Project's early policy output, I concede, doesn't encourage a belief that reasoned dialogue with dissenters is what Rubin has in mind. Advisory board members see themselves as progressive-minded, but they do not stray from the mainstream's conventional wisdom -- lots of Harvard, Princeton and Berkeley, no one from the ranks of "free trade" skeptics. The twenty-five-member board includes thirteen investment bankers, venture capitalists and hedge-fund managers from Wall Street and the West Coast -- guys who, like Rubin, do the investment deals at home and abroad.

There's already a warm political glow. At the Hamilton launch in April, Senator Barack Obama hailed the group as "some of the most innovative, thoughtful policy-makers... the sort of breath of fresh air that I think this town needs." Senator Hillary Clinton's recent economic speeches are, not surprisingly, a good fit with Rubin's thinking, since the pair's political closeness is well-known. Washington's Clintonistas-in-waiting embrace and amplify Rubin's ideas. He helps them arrange financing for new projects, like John Podesta's Center for American Progress. Democratic candidates seeking Wall Street campaign money hope for Rubin's blessing, a seal of approval that can open checkbooks.

The "soft" ideas in the Hamilton Project playbook are mostly old ideas -- improve education and retraining, provide "wage insurance" payments to dislocated workers, increase public investment in industrial development and infrastructure. All are worthy things to do, but they seem like tinkering around the edges. Ron Blackwell, chief economist of the AFL-CIO, observes, "What they've got going are these little ideas that sound like they are forward-looking and respond to the problem of living standards, but they don't speak to power."

The right-of-center tilt of Rubin's group is reflected in some secondary proposals that are sure to rattle Democratic constituencies: Reform education by weakening teacher tenure, linking it to student performance; reform the system for tort litigation to eliminate what Rubin describes as "vast excess today" (his own firm suffered from tort litigation when it had to pay billions to settle investor lawsuits for Citigroup's role in the financial fraud at Enron and other corporate scandals).

The "hard" economic propositions in Rubin's agenda are essentially the same ones he pushed successfully in the Clinton Administration: Balance the budget to boost national savings and thereby (Rubin assumes) reduce the country's horrendous trade deficits and enormous capital borrowing from abroad, where the creditors are led by China and Japan; advance more trade agreements if possible, but don't tamper with the trading rules or international institutions that currently govern the system.

In other words, born-again Rubinomics. Peter Orszag, the young economist who is Hamilton's director, doesn't quarrel with the label, saying, "This is almost like Clintonomics 2.0." Rubin says, "The basic principles of sound economic policy I don't think change." The script sounds a lot like the "putting people first" platform Bill Clinton ran on back in 1992, though in office he abandoned most public investment in favor of deficit reduction.

Orszag calls it a "warm-hearted but cool-headed" agenda. But will it work? That's the question I would like to hear debated among Dems before they sign up for more Rubin magic. Clinton's second-term boom did temporarily reverse the downward wage trends, though economists still argue over the cause and effect. But balancing the budget again is unlikely to produce the same results, for lots of reasons. While increasing national savings is a very important goal, the world is now awash in surplus capital. And the United States is in a much deeper hole, borrowing $700 billion a year from abroad to sustain the domestic economy.

More to the point, Rubinomics in the 1990s did not reverse the long-term trend of rising trade deficits in goods and services or the deepening current-account deficits in capital borrowing from abroad, which could bring on a crisis if foreign lenders decide to pull the plug. In fact, both capital and trade deficits exploded at the very moment Clinton's budget was coming into balance. As the budget moved from deficit to surplus, the US current-account deficit nearly tripled, from 1.6 to 4.2 percent of GDP (it is now around 7 percent).

Rubin is sticking to his convictions, though respected conservative economists no longer believe in the "twin deficit" relationship. Studies by the Federal Reserve and the IMF found the relationship too weak to matter much. The IMF estimates that balancing the budget now would reduce the current-account deficit only slightly, while the required fiscal austerity would produce a five-year loss of more than $300 billion in economic output. Rubin defends his thesis by blaming the rising trade deficit on inflexible currency exchange with China and other Asian nations. Correct that and everything will be fine, he says. Further, he explains that the capital deficits in the Clinton years were actually a good thing because the high-tech investment boom was drawing in more foreign investors. He neglects to mention that the boom included the high-tech stock-market "bubble" that collapsed a year later on George W. Bush's watch, with $6 trillion in losses for investors.

In any case, Rubin sees nothing in the trading system itself that needs fixing. "Maybe I'm missing something," he says, "but I don't think there's anything in the design of the system we would have done differently."

Another debatable tenet in Rubin's thinking is the familiar mantra that more education will save us in the long run--that is, improving Americans' skills and knowledge will offset the low-wage competition. Rubin's tone is sympathetic to workers, but some acolytes pushing this logic sound like they are "blaming the victim." US educational attainment levels, after all, rose robustly during the last generation with no effect on job losses or wage stagnation. "I actually think education is key," Rubin insists. "I'm granting I think your point is right--the cost gap," the cheaper labor abroad, which may pull down US wages for another generation. But to some extent, he says, "the cost gap will, over time actually, probably get partially solved by their increasing wages [in China and India], hopefully with as little as possible our wages coming down. ... The more productive we are, the better we can compete with them."

There's one large and looming problem with that logic: The number of "losers" whose jobs are outsourced to foreign labor markets is getting much larger than the establishment had envisioned, and the job losses are creeping up the income ladder to undermine people in well-educated, highly paid occupations. In a startling Foreign Affairs essay, Alan Blinder warned that "tens of millions" of job losses are ahead from outsourcing, not for the already decimated blue-collar workers in manufacturing but for accountants, software designers and other high-status professions. These are people who presumably did the "right thing" by getting advanced educations. How, I ask Blinder, does educational improvement help them, since they are already well educated? "I wish I knew the answer to that," Blinder replies. "On balance, more education is better than less education, but it's not a panacea." He talks vaguely of changing the style of American schooling.

Blinder's ominous forecast for high-skilled jobs is another belated recognition by establishment authorities that they were wrong, since the process of moving engineering work to Asia, where they could hire cheaper engineers, started two decades ago. Free-trade advocates like Blinder are complacent about the loss of manufacturing jobs, comparing it to the technological changes that wiped out agricultural employment a century ago. "It's pretty inevitable," he says. They seem more worried now that white-collar jobs are being wiped out. But they think it would be a big mistake to interfere. "It's like global warming," he explains. "If there is severe global warming, you may have to change the preparations for bad weather." But Blinder's "global warming" metaphor actually expresses the viewpoint of the other side. Like global warming, the trading system is not an act of nature. It is a set of man-made rules -- protecting capital and ignoring labor. Finance and industry persuaded government to adopt these terms. But they can be altered, just as government can order industry to reform itself to curb the dangers of global warming. That difference -- deference to the status quo versus a vision for reform -- is the nut of the argument between the two sides.

When I asked Rubin to consider labor's critique and its argument for global labor standards, I was pleasantly surprised that he did not brush off the question. Instead, we had an engaging back and forth.

Without global rights for workers to organize and some version of a minimum wage pegged to each country's economic conditions, the "race to the bottom" is sure to continue, I suggest. When workers start mobilizing for higher wages, multinationals counter by moving production to the next available cheap labor market. Middle-class wages fall at the top, but the bottom does not rise as rapidly as it should. "But it's a complicated question," Rubin responds. Improving the distribution of incomes in poorer countries "is in everybody's interest," he agrees. "On the other hand, I've had exposure to people who make that argument, and I think they make it as a way to prevent trade liberalization. ... The one hope some of these countries have to take people out of abject poverty is that their labor-cost advantage will result in a shift of production to their countries. ... Would you say the people of Sri Lanka have to stay in abject poverty to keep that from happening?"

Labor rights, I counter, do not prevent the very poorest countries from developing on the advantage of their cheap labor, but reform would require all developing countries to operate so that wage levels can rise proportionate to the economy's rising productivity and profit, however that is measured. "Something like that ought to be an objective of the global system," Rubin agrees. But he says he has never seen a convincing model of how this might work. He remains skeptical. He admits it is disturbing that economic advances in some countries "still have had very little effect on the poverty rate, and middle-income people haven't done all that well either. So the political economic elites had all this economic benefit, and they were indifferent to poverty, to the poor."

The global system, I point out, protects capital by imposing dense rules on how a developing nation must treat investment capital, banking, patents and intellectual property rights. If a poor country doesn't accept the rules for capital, it doesn't get to play in the global system. Yet when organized labor seeks basic rights for working people around the world to organize unions and bargain collectively, they are denounced as "protectionist" and denied any recognition. Is that fair? "Well, I guess it's true," Rubin says hesitantly. "You can say, Why distinguish between those [rules for capital] and labor conditions?" Perhaps it is justified, he says, because labor and especially environmental rights are "a bit further removed" from trade. "I think it's the right objective," Rubin says. "But I still think it's a very complicated question whether you put labor conditions in an agreement. I would not hold back from going ahead on a trade agreement because another country refused to accept labor standards."

To my surprise, Rubin next recalls the work of John Kenneth Galbraith and his famous concept of "countervailing powers." Market-based capitalism, Rubin explains, is kept stable, broadly prosperous and equitable because its excesses are checked by labor unions, government and other institutions with countervailing power. "If you have a big company negotiate with its workers and the workers aren't organized, it isn't real negotiations," he says, adding, "If one side has no negotiating power, that isn't really a market-based system. It's an imposition of one on the other." This is a startling statement: The man from Citigroup has articulated the essential reasoning that makes the case for including labor rights in the global trading system. That conversation has convinced me that outgunned reformers ought to make use of Rubin's musings.

Knock on his door and try to initiate a dialogue. If the critics come forward and offer their ideas on a "conceptual framework" for reform, I ask, would the Hamilton Project be willing to discuss them? Rubin reiterates his doubts and reservations. "But the answer is yes," he says. "The answer is absolutely yes." Skeptical friends and kindred spirits will probably say to me, You have been conned. I would say back to them, What have you got to lose by talking to the man?

The Hamilton Project is a sophisticated example of what I call "deep lobbying" -- developing well in advance of the 2008 presidential election an agenda that safely avoids critical challenges to the global system and defines the terms of debate in very limiting ways. Democratic hopefuls who sign on can gain the cover of Rubin's respectability. Long before voters even know who the candidates are, the party's debate might be over before it begins.

Given this prospect for premature consensus, it might be a good idea to start the debate right now.

In some ways, Robert Rubin reminds me of the original Progressives of the early twentieth century, reformers drawn from the emerging middle class of managerial and professional people. They tried in various ways to reconcile the tumultuous conflicts between capital and labor but without getting blood on their hands. They were horrified by the greed and inhumanity of industrial capitalism but also wished to keep their distance from Socialists and the struggling labor movement.

Rubin is a "nice guy" -- even adversaries say so -- and I suspect he feels similar tensions. He sincerely would like to work things out -- find some kind of reasonable balance -- but without interrupting the creative destruction under way in the global system. The big difference separating him from the Progressives is that Rubin and his investment-banking colleagues are men of capital. At Goldman Sachs, Rubin was doing major deals in Mexico before he came to Washington to push NAFTA and balanced budgets. At Citigroup he travels to Beijing and Shanghai, promoting client interests. I don't question his sincerity. But as a reformer, he has competing demands on his loyalty.

My hunch is that Rubin won't succeed any more than the original Progressives in reconciling the competing forces (the New Deal eventually did). The tumult most likely will grow louder and possibly violent before reformers gain the political power to accomplish their serious goals.

Meanwhile, if popular anger does erupt here and around the world, there won't be much space left for "nice guys" seeking a reasonable discussion.

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William Greider is the author of, most recently, "The Soul of Capitalism" (Simon & Schuster).

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Once again it is immigration that is the culpret
Posted by: Bobsays on Jul 17, 2006 12:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Immigration over the course of the 90s and now, has deliberately driven down wages, undermined the law,and as we can see in most western countries, totally destroyed the capability of many government institutions to function.

In the UK, the government had to admit its Home Office is now out of control and has no idea what is going on in the country. Many of its staff were replaced with recent immigrants themselves, and in some cases, illegal immigrants were hired to work there.

It is immigration that is doing the most to create wage gaps. This issue must become a left-wing issue, and not the a left wing issue only in the sense that the only people who matter are the illegal immigrants.

These policies have created a scenario where it is advisable to not turn to the state for any protection. Where, for survival, the smartest thing to do is first, look after yourself, your family and racial/ethnic grouping. You can care about others only after you have met these basic conditions. That's fine and dandy, but if the left wants to believe in the multicultural society, then something public must exist.

The US is not alone in this problem: all the western countries are hurting. It is not without irony that the most innovative and prospering countries today are ones that do not rely on immigration for growth, that pursue policies of domestic development, that seek cultural harmony, rather than cultural disharmony. It is now time to question all the shiboleths. They are false and looking more bogus by the day.

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world on fire
Posted by: wli on Jul 17, 2006 1:12 AM   
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Wealth condensation is a global phenomenon with disparate regional effects; the reserve labor force is foreign more often than not and that's not going to be addressed via education of the domestic labor force, the proposals for which don't accomplish that anyway. The premises of this "reformism" are so hopelessly flawed they're untenable.

It's relatively simple to deal with all this. Inequality and poverty are inherently destabilizing phenomena. Poverty is inequality's inseparable twin; poverty is a lesser bidding position vs. other participants in the economy. Redistribute wealth globally to level out inequality between countries and within countries and they're done away with.

Unfortunately the very notion of a solution is anathema to the oligarchy. Their entire existence as a political and economic force is dedicated to the preservation of the inequality and hence poverty that sustain their own elevated bidding positions and political power. No voluntary solution will ever occur.

So what these "reformist" positions represent is nothing more than partial concessions with the aim of preserving sufficient inequality to satisfy the oligarchy's insatiable greed without triggering mass unrest that might threaten their elevated bidding positions within the economy or grip on political power. In other words, concessions to prevent greater potential reductions in inequality and poverty. The fatal flaw in the reformist position is that the greed is insatiable. Securing the oligarchy's gains with concessions is anathema to those who so fervently want to take everything away from those who don't have enough wealth or political and economic power to defend themselves.

As opposed to such concessions, direct "security" measures will be implemented to prevent any redistribution. That is the true meaning of the "War on Terror." Expect debtors' prisons, debt bondage and other forms of slavery, police state crackdowns, mass imprisonment to replenish prison slave labor workforces, and wars of collective punishment against populations fighting for their survival in the face of economic deprivation so severe it's tantamount to a collective death sentence. In fact, all those things are going on as we speak in thinly-veiled fashions where not explicit.

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» With you 100% Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: With you 100% Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: With you 100% Posted by: jeanie
» RE: With you 100% Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: With you 100% Posted by: sea4to
» RE: With you 100% Posted by: yesman
» RE: world on fire Posted by: Kanefire
That'll be the day!
Posted by: algodees on Jul 17, 2006 1:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I doubt that the economic elites on this planet would ever do anything to truly close the income gap within or between nations. I believe their insatiable greed will lead to great upheavals eventually. Because of their ways of thinking they, like their forerunners in 18 century France, will not realize the seriousness of the situation until they start loosing their heads. The well intention efforts of Mr. Rubin and his friends are welcomed but will more than likely be too little and too late to save us from frightful upheavals in the future.

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» RE: That'll be the day! Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: That'll be the day! Posted by: deo508
» RE: That'll be the day! Posted by: yesman
The many faces of immigration
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 17, 2006 3:10 AM   
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Immigration (of jobs) - as in the transformation and migration of well-paid American blue collar jobs with benefits and normal hours into low-paid Mexican jobs with no job protections, ten-hour days, and no safety or health rules - and the transfer of similar US white-collar jobs to India call centers. Still, the low-paying agricultural jobs in the US still need a steady supply of cheap compliant labor - and that's what illegal immigration of Mexicans supplies for US agribusiness concerns.

Immigration (of money) - as in the transfer of vast sums of money into and out of Third World, 'neoliberalized' economies - the immigration of US tax dollars to foreign despots via World Bank loan programs and the 're-entry' of those dollars back into US investment banks via a few huge engineering conduits, but in private hands. This is similar to the continuing immigration of funds out of the pockets of the US public and into the coffers of energy and oil investment banks via Saudi intermediaries. Some would call it loan sharking - other say they believe in "free trade" - the unrestricted flow of funds across borders, but not of people, a la NAFTA. Once the money is over the border, it vanishes into a maze of holding companies, only to resurface in some billionaire's private fund. Another example: The concurrent immigration of cocaine into the USA, dollars out of the USA in suitcases, and dollars back into the USA at the lower tax rate afforded to foreign investment - it's hard to say whether this is tourism or immigration, really.

Immigration (of people) - as in Dick Cheney's future plans, if the recent revelation of his financial portfolio wasn't a hint - he's betting against the US dollar, moving some of his ~$100 million into euro funds (though much of his money is in Vanguard, a fund that happens to be a major Exxon owner, and a major Chevron owner, and who knows what else) - see Cheney Bets on Bad News, MSN Money. At least his financial manager assures us that Cheney is "completely hands-off" when it comes to looking after his cash - meaning what? Is Cheney the one with dual Swiss citizenship as well, or is that some other cabal member?

The general meaning in today's political discourse is as follows:

"Raising immigration issues" - , a deliberate attempt to gain political power by stirring up racial or ethnic hatreds against whatever minority groups one can think of - a very old approach, going back thousands of years in human history. Interestingly, such notions are related to primitive "in-group / out-group" psychological associations which still play a dominant role in the social lives of modern chimpanzees.

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» Correct words Posted by: BlueTigress
Very influential, among Democrats?
Posted by: Citizendeane on Jul 17, 2006 4:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Rubin's influence, may reshape the familiar trade debate, at least among Democrats." Influence among Cockapoos and Chihuahuas would have more impact on our economic policies.

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» Aye Matey! Posted by: coldeye
» Dogs Posted by: BlueTigress
Slouching toward Rubin
Posted by: Teller on Jul 17, 2006 4:41 AM   
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Remember when Argentina's Gen. Videla put his hand on Jeanne Kirkpatrick's knee? Sounds like Robert Rubin put his hand on Greider's knee.

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Leveling.
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Jul 17, 2006 5:28 AM   
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Maybe it's an oversimplification but I see this as leveling of the standard of living of people glabally. We will continue to run trade deficits and export jobs until the standards of living of all workers is equal. Then we will compete on a level field.

If this is true the strategy of labor and employers should be to try to raise the foreign standaed of living as close to ours as possible and as quickly as possible. One problem of capitalism has always been overproductiion. It is important to raise foreign wages so that foreign citizens can buy more than they can produce. We want the standard of living to level close to ours, not theirs.

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» Why is Leveling Good? Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Why is Leveling Good? Posted by: smoothikilled
» OK. Now Why Again. Posted by: coldeye
» RE: OK. Now Why Again. Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: Why is Leveling Good? Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Leveling. Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Leveling. Posted by: Lincoln fan
» But they want Cheap Labor. Posted by: k9disc
bicyclebarron
Posted by: Bicyclebarron on Jul 17, 2006 6:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This reminds me of the bait and switch game the Regan handlers played with the Christian right. Use there issues during campaigns and go back to pleasing thier corporate backers once the election is out of the way. Why not back worker rights and fair wages with CitiBank. Invest with companies and countries that treat workers fairly. If Mr. Rubin is serious take at action at the corporate level instead of waiting for the politicians to take up the issue.

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» RE: bicyclebarron Posted by: yesman
» RE: bicyclebarron Posted by: yesman
Dark days in America are very near
Posted by: deo508 on Jul 17, 2006 7:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we face will make the last depression look like a vacation of the rich and famous. Keepyou loved ones close and your weapons loaded.

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The Irony of Bob Rubin's Concern
Posted by: coldeye on Jul 17, 2006 7:19 AM   
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Bob Rubin is a smart, likeable investement banker. No Don Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney. Reasonable. Willing to speak respectfully to audiences the "neocons" shun. Reads literature, mingles well with the Ivy League guys, of which of course he is on. The quintissential neoliberal.

Yet more than the "neocons", the neoliberals like Rubin, Clinton and the smart economic team of the Clinton years(and their counterparts in Britain and in the EU) created the current world globalization system. Falling wages in the US and in Third world nations alike result from clever manipulation of trade agreements, investment decisions by multinationals, and the tolerance of a "Supercorporation" named China, the ultimate merger of the State with BigBusiness. The massive flows of immigrants in the EU and the US is also part of this strategy, thus the nonenforcement of immigration laws by Clinton, and the recruitment of McCain and H.Clinton by Big Business to provide legalization and a system for addtional cheap Latin American and African labor. (tough luck, African Americans, but you get Hilary to speak to you on Martin Luther King Day, after all and the Dems support the Voting Rights Act which really has done young black males a lot of good!).

But the Rubin philosophy is not about helping the displaced worker or the uneducated worker who can't lease or buy a BMW in the new economy: the moron-media's blather about "differences" between Putin and Bush are minor compared with the consensus of the G8 leaders and their investment bank masters that capital moves freely around the world and that labor and environment concerns take a second, if not third or worse place to the security of investments, the return on capital and other cornerstones of the New World Order ushered in by the Reagan-Bush victory over Soviet Communism. Bill Clinton and Bob Rubin continued that process and indeed created new institutions like NAFTA and WTO that institutionalize this system.

We should all stop following irrelevant "elections", and be more interested in who is sitting on the Boards of investment banking firms and internatioal links between banks, governments and major corporations. So forget Mother Jones, the Nation and your local newspaper, it's the Wall St Journal, The Economist, Far East Review, and Fortune you want to read. [News Flash: the real neoliberals like Bill Clinton and Bob Rubin could've cared less about the hapless Gore's bad luck in Florida. Peanuts.]




Postscript
[Hopeful Thought for the Day] Liberals, under Rubinism, you won't get as many crazy wars. The Rubins were quite involved in the Middle East and will be again, because we can't have the Israelis or Palestinians imposing their atavistic urges over the energy needs and military security needs of the world. (You might want to short any shares you have of the lucrative and numerous Israeli-owned or partially owned hitech companies on NASDAQ). In the long-term, Israel is a bad investment for the New World Order. Like any bad loss, it will be written off.
To fix the system's current woes (rising commodity prices) we already see a planned recession(a nasty one) already in the works. Our new Rubins(Bernanke and Paulsen) are working on it. Some PR like "AIDS" relief for Africa(about which no one gives a damn except for the national resources. the continent's blacks could vanish tomorrow and the rest of the world would shed not a tear(Angelina, it would be a great flick for you to do!).

Behold the Victory of Rubin, our own Talleyrand.

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» RE: The Irony of Bob Rubin's Concern Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Smartest response of the day Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Confused Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: Confused Posted by: coldeye
Immigration
Posted by: hapibeli on Jul 17, 2006 7:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is SIMPLE. Make it extremely expensive to hire illegal immigrants[undocumented workers if that sounds better].
They will leave, American citizens will demand more money for their labor in farmwork, hotel work, restaurant work, etc., ad infinitum. Remove outsourcing tax incentives. All laboring boats will rise. Yes, we'll all pay more for goods and services, but we will all make more $$$$$.

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Unrestricted Free Trade Is A Farce
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jul 17, 2006 7:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Free Trade is a concept that sounds good but fails in practice due to self-interest and greed. Fair Trade--yes, Free Trade-- never.

Government & business always promise that partner countries under trade agreements will have strict environmental protections, worker rights guarantees, living wages,etc; but they rarely do. There is no way that a modern social democracy can effectively compete with an unregulated, worker unfriendly, low-wage economy in a true Free Trade setup. It is also nearly impossible for a developing country to quickly adopt the kind of wages, worker rights, and social welfare programs without risking losing the newfound business under a Free Trade agreement.

Today's international business environment will drive manufacturing to the absolute lowest cost that politics will tolerate and that undermines all but the most vigilant governments. Lacking activist governments to ensure that workers are not exploited, what you end up with is sweatshops that exist in various places around the world.

In the US the middle class has been devastated by the combination of Right-to-Work Laws, Lap Dog regulation by the government, Free-Trade Agreements, failing public schools, a worker and consumer unfriendly legal system and unprecedented greed by US business. We are witnesses to the establishment of a modern class caste system in America. It's just about done.

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Kill the workers, breed more consumers
Posted by: Awake on Jul 17, 2006 9:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been running some numbers on my spreadsheet, and the solution appears to be twofold:
1. Increase the number of consumers (especially high income ones) to absorb the excess output, stimulate growth, and create demand that will raise wages for all workers. This will also keep the real estate shell game going.
2. Decrease the number of workers (especially the usefully educated ones) to reduce competition for decreasing numbers of jobs and raise wages. This will also decrease pressure on the environment.

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» Stupid Posted by: BlueTigress
clinker
Posted by: cottontail on Jul 17, 2006 9:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are slowly but surely on the way to becoming just another Banana Republic. Not a very profound observation, but true, I'm afraid. To turn that old cliche around, the rich will always be with us. Unbridled greed seems to be well ingrained in the American psyche. In Minnesota we have a CEO of an HMO who received 1.6 BILLION in stock options and that's off the backs of sick people, denying claims and raising premiums. Just think of all the politicians you can buy for 1.6 billion. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are hailed as heroes when anyone who accumulates that much wealth
in view of all the poverty and homelessnes in their own country should be embarrassed to tears. It will be interesting watching how huge numbers of the middle class react to the loss and/or outsourcing of their well paying jobs.
Will the rich feel safe in their gated and well protected
enclaves? Will the middle class rise up or take it lying down? (Remember that in the Banana Republics a strong military protects the wealthy minority, and why is our government building detention centers?)) Stay tuned.

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» RE: Staying tuned. Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: clinker Posted by: yesman
The Fed is Responsible for this!!
Posted by: wdzeller on Jul 17, 2006 9:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The root of this entire problem is that private corporation whose monopoly of our money is written into the Constitution, none other than the Federal Reserve. Oh, all you "Progressives" out there, this shit was made LAW in 1913!

Everyone argues about the symptons of our American Decline, but no one seems to understand what has caused this. When that private corporation, with the backing of the guns of the Government, ordered us to turn in our real money for their damn little scraps of paper known as Federal Reserve Notes, this whole mess started.

Does anyone understand what our "money" is and how the Fed creates it? The fact is that in order for "money" to be created, by law, someone MUST go into debt. In our wonderful system money=debt, and if any debt is paid off, then "money" is destroyed! Therefore, you can be damn sure that debt will only increase.

For economic "growth" to occur, someone else must go into debt in order for some other entity to make "money", and then next year another person must go into even more debt just to service all prior existing debts PLUS interest. All any idiot has to do is look at the rate at which debt is growing in this country and its not a hard stretch to see that our imperial collapse will occur much sooner rather than later.

The reason we are bleeding jobs is because of our national propensity to blow money. Foreign countries, who also have their own version of the Federal Reserve (central banks), simply create money out of thin air by loaning it at less than 1% interest, then their currency speculators buy our Treasury Bonds which pay a greater rate of interest. End result?
1) The foreign central banks have their debt turned into to "money" by monetising U.S. Debt.
2) Foreign central banks drive down the value of their own currencies because they "create" so much new "money", and drive up the value of the Dollar when they sell their newly created "money" to buy the Dollars one must have to buy U.S. Treasury Bonds.
End Result: Cheaper foreign currencies drive down the costs of their exports, while a stronger Dollar prices our exports completely out of the market. Since 1965 over 60% of our manufacturing has collapsed to the point where Germany now has as much industry as the U.S.!
3) Foreign govenments do not see inflation in their own countries even though they have inflated their own money supplies, since their peoples are thrifty and typically save 30% of their incomes! In other words, as quickly as they inflate, their people put the money back into the bank, thus holding down their own inflation rates.
4) All economic expansion is driven towards paper. What is easier to make today? A dollar of interest at a bank, made by loaning some poor sap a dollar that is created out of thin air, or a dollar made by investing in, building, operating a factory, mill, or mine, and selling a product that will HOPEFULLY make a profit? Needless to say, the financial sector gets all of the investment, and as little money flows into production, that enterprise will wither and die due to a lack of capital investment. Yep, the very productive enterprises we must have if we want to PAY ON OUR DEBTS.

Oh, I've left out the mention of the common citizen, until, now.
I think by now any reader can deduce that their condition is not going to get better, but only much worse.
1) Their savings are destroyed by inflation. Result: You will not have a prosperous retirement.
2) Their tangible property rises in "value" because of inflation, but taxes such as property and inheiritance taxes rise faster!
3) Wage increases NEVER exceed the inflation rate, and in fact NEVER even keep up. Result: Lower standards of living.
4) As in industry dies, you have no jobs being created that lead to riding living standards, and where the children will have access to a debt -free education.

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French Revolution Anyone?
Posted by: doneman2000 on Jul 17, 2006 10:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the masses ever realize how badly the wealthy and the Fortune 500 have fucked them over (with the governments help) the unrest will make the riots of 1968 look like mere childs play. Tariffs worked to make a vibrant middle class in this country. That middle class is what made America great. THe robber-baron days were discarded decades ago. Now we are creeping ever closer to those times again. How sad when people vote against their own financial interests. How sad when we forget our own history, especially the disgraceful parts of it.

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Not until human development becomes as important as wealth development.
Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 17, 2006 10:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But I don't think anyone, with decision-making responsibilities, wants to or can try to plan that far ahead.

I find some cynicism in the comments on this thread. It seems that one cannot play the existing current global economic game without having hands and soul covered in blood. Anyone who is personally successful, as is Rubin, has made a deal with the Devil.

But were we better off at the time Clinton left office, despite his need to deal with the Devil of a GOP Congress? Looking back it's hard to believe how far we have fallen so fast.

What I miss most in this interview is the example of China. For most of the 20th Century, it was a desperate Third World County. So, who will countries in similar conditions look to? The US? Let's not kid ourselves. Rubin's policies are designed to preserve the US enforced domination of the rules of the game.

It cannot last because it does not work for most of the world. When Rubin says, "It's a complicated question," what he means is "It is not safe for me to provide a straight answer to the question."

Everyone knows the answer. No one in the First World dares to speak it.

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Sean O'Reilly
Posted by: sor on Jul 17, 2006 11:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Economists seem to have an amazing blind spot in regards to the production of wealth. The real issue is not how you distribute assets--capitol or workers but how you actually create wealth.

If the United States wants to get serious about growth, it needs to dump the entire unwritten environmental credo that growth is bad and target a variety of programs for massive development. The following quickly sketched programs would inject billions of dollars into the economy over the long term: (They would require a large investment up front but much like the national highway system, the big payoffs come later down the pike.)

1. Reform of health care must begin at the source. Break the stranglehold of AMA and build many more new medical schools. The price of health care will come down when the supply of doctors dramatically increases.

2. Massive investment in new nuclear reactors. This will, over the long haul, reduce the cost of electricity and decrease our dependence on foreign oil for power generation

3. Nuclear power desalination plants for the American Southwest. Desalination centers on the west coast and in the gulf of Mexico could bring much needed water to the arid Southwest

4. A Bullet train system as extensive as the original railroads. The amount of growth in the retail home builders market would be hugely enhanced by this process but again, a little way down the timelines of boom and bust profits. This will also tend to decentralize the populations of the bigger cities making them less vulnerable to terrorist attack

5. Significant investment in infrastructure overseas with the costs to be paid back via long term bonds payable by the host governments. Countries that experience direct benefit from the US are likely to be allies and not hostile.

6. Massive investment in the practical useful applications of fuel cell technology with the goal of making american households independent from long distance power sources. (This item might be substituted in part for number two on the proposal list.)

www.dickmanagement.blogspotcom

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» Dickmanager Posted by: BlueTigress
I don't know much about economics, but I do know history
Posted by: xbj on Jul 17, 2006 11:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And ANY country that comes as close as this one is getting to a two class system (rich and poor with NO middle class) is getting darn close to a revolution, and it's never pretty, and the rich can NEVER stop it.

No matter how many poor they send to die in stupid unwinnable useless wars. Because even one day stupid immigrants wake up and say "Enough blood!"

God help the rich when this immigrant population figures out they're merely a baby making slave class producing endless cannon fodder, and that there is NO AMERICAN DREAM for them beyond a house with running water and an indoor toilet and cell phones and trick cars and alcohol on the weekends, in hock up to their eyeballs.

And their sons in pieces in boxes, the price of admission.

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albiegf13
Posted by: albiegf13 on Jul 17, 2006 11:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think that it was JKG who said something like this about the trickle down theory.... "If you feed a Bull some hay, it will eventually trickle down... " I guess our friend Mr. Rubin must have just woke up this morning and realized that something is wrong. Duh..! This has been going on for 50 years.... There is no solution.... Not for the Wealthy, nor for the middle income, nor for the poor... All Americans are in this together, if this ship sinks, all hands will go with it... We are becoming a bad credit risk as a nation and thanks to our leadership we have nothing in reserve for when things don't work our way... Declining asset (real estate, stocks, currency and credit worthyness) values could cause a real crisis in a financial system that has not been stress tested and a political system that is difficult to define. We need to get back to basics... Good luck to all....

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Mr. Timothy Branden
Posted by: Troymaples on Jul 17, 2006 7:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robert Rubin wants to control the discussion because he is afraid it will expose the real motives behind his and other elitist who have fostered programs that allowed an economic oligarcy to take control of American and destroy the middle class.
I'm no economist, but I could see the dangers of the free trade policies he espoused. Ronald Reagan really started the trend, continued by GHW Bush, and then Rubin under the Clinton presidency. The bad result I most feared from these policies have come to fruition, so why should I listen to anything this traitor to the American worker has to say. He can now be very polite and conciliatory because the effect of these policies have already accomplished the desired goal. It will now be vertually impossible to regain the ground lost in the past 26 years. "Snake in the grass" people like Rubin make me sick. Let us not again be fooled by people like him who have ulterior motives.

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» RE: Mr. Timothy Branden Posted by: yesman
Heard it before
Posted by: BlueTigress on Jul 20, 2006 8:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read "The Disposable American". The wage insurance and retraining programs Rubin proposes are not new. They were initially suggested during the Clinton administration and a few pilot programs were implemented by the Bushites, but they were so poorly funded and had so many caveats that they were essentially useless.

It kind of looks like Rubin cannot bring himself to admit that they were wrong.

Ok, Rubi, look yourself in the eye and repeat after me: "I was wrong. I fucked up. We are going to hell in a handbasket. Free trade is not the answer. We have to fix this."

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Triangulation! The Neo Con-Job That Sabotaged America's Grassroots
Posted by: NeoCogito on Jul 21, 2006 5:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's Back! A Decade Late And A Gazillion Corporate Contributions Strong. We Might Want To Know This Word *Before! We Vote--Against Ourselves AGAIN!

Although it's clear to everyone Hill's divisive, troublesome and aggravates old wounds, they're doing everything they can to block alternatives, from ruining other candidates favored by the people to eliminating 3rd party options altogether.. Clintonomics but especially "Triangulation" is just a fancy word for systematic sabotage.--the Judas strategy. He likes to call it "positioning" himself (the spin), but it works to divide, demoralize, disarm the opposition from within and no matter what you call it, it ultimately unseated the democratic party. He ran emotively, on the people's platform "Putting People First," the platform he reversed 180 degrees the moment he took office and wowed! republican audiences saying: "You All Know I'm One Of You" and "You Aint' Seen Nothing Yet." (We might want to keep in mind that Hill & Bill spent a lifetime kissing up to the monied elite and founded the DLC supported by the Dixie Mafia , and other notoriously hard core southern conservatives in the 80's.) Their battle then, and now! has always been with *Democrats! But are we done with Triangulation, the crafty strategy that confounded the people's good sense and tied up a nation's governance? It doesn't look that way.

With the grassroots growing opposition to Clinton's (DLC) ! he's "positioning" again --uh-oh, this time within the *democratic-wing of our party. He very recently "converted" from his longtime leadership in the DLC (called by most the republican wing of our party) to the democratic wing, the DNC. Buh-Bye Grassroots. Today, a decade late and gazillions richer Bill, assumes a low profile, operating/pulling (purse) strings from the shadows. First order of business? now-you-see-it-now-you-don't" and the term "Clintonomics" gets erased from the blackboard. It's now known as "Rubinomics"-- it's all Rubin's fault. They've always taken casualties in numbers that have many political scholars scratching their heads, but in their power struggle the buck , always stops somewhere else. Clinton zealots are just as fanatical as those who follow Jesus, except, the object of their! affection, the sign of the *dollar, is much less benign.

Our people simply can't publicly discuss the nuts and bolts of his term in office without exposing a vain, egotistical man with an abiding , over-riding contempt for the people. When public forums turn to the 90's there is just a kind of shamefaced awkward silence. What CAN! be said to a betrayed constituency about a fellow "democrat?" who championed a radical agenda that could and has made some republicans look like flower-children? Not much and so...they cut to Monica and the few "outrageous" anal, distasteful fundamentalists who took the heat off his war against the people. The jerks, did him a favor. But the Republican orthodoxy --not fool enough to look a gift horse in the mouth, are silent. Makes you wonder if we'll ever get a *comparatively honest "dog-fight" --an opposition party-- back again; the kind people can sort out and win. Today---whoever wins, we lose.

We NEED! a party we don't have to be ashamed of.

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ENSLAVEMENT
Posted by: davidsoori on Jul 22, 2006 5:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Present economics governed by money created out of NOTHING as an exponentional compound interest bearing DEBT, is only designed to enslave every one from cradle to grave.
In the Third World the holocaust is alive and well in the death of 145,000/ children every day Two million people every year

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Rubin iS A SHILL FOR THE RICH>National Economic Self-sufficiency!!
Posted by: ScottGregory on Jul 22, 2006 11:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Global economy is DOA because the underlying energy equations built into the concepts of producing products long distances from where they are consumed are going to change very rapidly. Like the stupidity of making salads in San Francisco and shipping them to Detroit for sale and consumption
There is only one solution. It's called "National Economic Self-sufficiency." WHAT AN AMAZING NEW IDEA!!!
Not just the United States, but every nation. Steeply progessive taxes; deductions only for domestic "productive" investment. Give employee associations the right to match the price on any sale of shares of their "employing" corporations. Make the Federal Reserve banks function as regional devlopment banks, financing on favorable terms the purchase by employee associations of those shares. Nationalize the major inter-state retailers, Wal-Mart, Target, etc. and make them purchase from newly capitalized domestic producers. Raise the minimum wage first to $8/hr, then stepwise every two years to $15/hr, then index to an honestly calculated CPI (not this lying"core index" of inflation the Bush gang is using).
DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM !!

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Collapse is inevitable and necessary
Posted by: fifthworld on Jul 22, 2006 12:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It might be slow and brutal or fast and brutal but the dollar's history. If you have money in stocks, liquidate and get gold bullion and maybe some silver coin. Absolute only way to save anything you've been saving. Then again, the bigger picture is, "what goods and services are you going to have access to with a petrodollar collapse?" It's a big blackout, people. Be kind like NYers in emergencies - get in the intersections and direct traffic. So to speak.

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Triangulation! The Neo Con-Job That Sabotaged America's Grassroots
Posted by: NeoCogito on Jul 22, 2006 2:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's Back! A Decade Late And A Gazillion Corporate Contributions Strong. We Might Want To Know This Word *Before! We Vote--Against Ourselves AGAIN!

We need to keep it honest and quit all this indignant play-acting. Spin is not in our interests. It was not a republican but a closet-conservative in *democratic clothing who established every major priority on the republican wish list in the modern era. The frenetic NAFTA Firestorm propogated without decency or measured plans ignited global anger and alarm. From hundreds of missles, cities leveled, and millions of casualties --everyone was startled by our inhumanity and greed. You could fairly say the insurgency was weaned on Clintonomics. The fact is that our democratic party, a strong majority most of the century, nosedived in the 90's during his time in office when he and his corporate-zealots drove out long time democrats-- damn straight their campaign-chest over-flows, *Royally!.

Although it's clear to everyone Hill's divisive, troublesome and aggravates old wounds, they're doing everything they can to block alternatives, from ruining other candidates favored by the people to eliminating 3rd party options altogether.. Clintonomics but especially "Triangulation" is just a fancy word for systematic sabotage.--the Judas strategy. He likes to call it "positioning" himself (the spin), but it works to divide, demoralize, disarm the opposition from within and no matter what you call it, it ultimately unseated the democratic party. He ran emotively, on the people's platform "Putting People First," the platform he reversed 180 degrees the moment he took office and wowed! republican audiences saying: "You All Know I'm One Of You" and "You Aint' Seen Nothing Yet." (We might want to keep in mind that Hill & Bill spent a lifetime kissing up to the monied elite and founded the DLC supported by the Dixie Mafia , and other notoriously hard core southern conservatives in the 80's.) Their battle then, and now! has always been with *Democrats! But are we done with Triangulation, the crafty strategy that confounded the people's good sense and tied up a nation's governance? It doesn't look that way.

With the grassroots growing opposition to Clinton's (DLC) ! he's "positioning" again --uh-oh, this time within the *democratic-wing of our party. He very recently "converted" from his longtime leadership in the DLC (called by most the republican wing of our party) to the democratic wing, the DNC. Buh-Bye Grassroots. Today, a decade late and gazillions richer Bill, assumes a low profile, operating/pulling (purse) strings from the shadows. First order of business? now-you-see-it-now-you-don't" and the term "Clintonomics" gets erased from the blackboard. It's now known as "Rubinomics"-- it's all Rubin's fault. They've always taken casualties in numbers that have many political scholars scratching their heads, but in their power struggle the buck , always stops somewhere else. Clinton zealots are just as fanatical as those who follow Jesus, except, the object of their! affection, the sign of the *dollar, is much less benign.

Our people can't publicly discuss the nuts and bolts of his term in office without exposing a vain, egotistical man with an abiding , over-riding contempt for the people. When public forums turn to the 90's there is just a kind of shamefaced awkward silence. What CAN! be said to a betrayed constituency about a fellow "democrat?" who championed a radical agenda that could and has made some republicans look like flower-children? Not much and so...they cut to Monica and the few anal fundamentalists who took the heat off his war against the people. The jerks, did him a favor. But the Republican orthodoxy --not fool enough to look a gift horse in the mouth, are silent.

We NEED! a party we don't have to be ashamed of.

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Sorry Guys: This Was A Mistake
Posted by: NeoCogito on Jul 22, 2006 2:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didn't Mean To Post "Triangulation, The Neo-ConJob..." Twice.

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