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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

Womenomics 101

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted March 16, 2006.


Life for women in the American workplace is far from paradise -- they face economic punishment for almost every aspect of their biology.
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Women play a greater role in the American economy today than at any time since Rosie the riveter gave up making bombers for the baby boom after World War II, but American corporations -- enabled by a political class dominated by men -- continue to punish them for the high crime of being female.

The irony is that if public and corporate policies were to take the needs of working American women seriously, it wouldn't just give a boost to working families, it would also strengthen the economy; doing the right thing in this case also happens to be good for the bottom line.

The American workforce has one of the highest rates of female participation in the world. Between 1955 and 2002, the percentage of working-age women who had jobs outside the home almost doubled, while men's workforce participation fell by more than 10 percent.

That transition took place just as it became harder for a single-earner to keep a family afloat. Economist Doug Henwood showed that a worker making an average manufacturing wage had to work 62 weeks in order to earn the median family income in 1947. By 1973 that had risen to 74 weeks, and in 2001 it was 81 weeks.

So we can thank women's participation for a significant chunk of the American economy's much-vaunted "dynamism." Highly educated women entering the workforce in the 1990s added to America's "productivity miracle." Harvard economist Richard Freeman studied labor stats in 1998 and found that women moving into the workforce increased the employment rate by almost 10 percent. Forget about "business-friendly" regulatory environments and the wonders of "Rubinomics" -- that injection of fresh workers accounted for almost two-thirds of the difference between the unemployment rate in the U.S. and other advanced economies.

And women are a big part of that entrepreneurial class that we worship in this country. According to the Center for Policy Alternatives (PDF), one in four Americans now work for women-owned businesses; those firms grew at twice the rate of all new businesses between 1997 and 2002. It's part of our national edge -- American women start up almost five times as many new businesses as women in other high-income countries (PDF).

But for all they do to boost the economy, women continue to get the shaft across the American workplace. It's not just the wage gap -- which remains at around 20 percent four decades after equal wages were made the law of the land (According to the AFL-CIO, the average 25 year-old woman will lose almost a half million dollars over her working life). And it's not just the "glass ceiling" (white men make up les than a third of the workforce, but hold almost 95 percent of top corporate positions, women make up 46 percent of the workforce, but hold less than five percent). The real problem facing working women in the U.S. is that we have the most inflexible workplaces in the developed world.

According to Harvard's Project on Global Working Families (PDF), the United States is one of only five countries out of 168 studied that doesn't mandate some form of paid maternal leave. The only other advanced economy among those five was Australia's, where women are guaranteed an entire year of unpaid leave. That puts the U.S. -- the wealthiest nation on the planet -- in the company of Lesotho, Papua New Guinea, and Swaziland.

That means that women in America face a unique burden. Regardless of how enlightened we believe we are, the yoke of housework and childrearing and eldercare still fall disproportionately on women. The legendary progressive economist Marilyn Waring was the first to consider the economics of unpaid housework in the 1980s. Waring estimated that if what has traditionally been thought of as "women's work" were counted economically, it would constitute the world's single largest service and production sector.

Women haven't caught a break at home to compensate for going to work in the numbers that they have in recent decades. Suzanne Bianchi, a sociologist at the University of Maryland, studied time-use surveys and found that working mothers spent an average of 12 hours a week on child care in 2003, an hour more than stay-at-home mothers did in 1975. That double-burden constrains women's workforce participation, lowers fertility rates, and impacts the wealth of both women and two-income families in myriad ways.

Inflexible workplaces offer socially mobile women a devil's choice: they can advance in their careers or they can have families. According to BusinessWeek, female corporate execs are twice as likely to be child-free as the the female population as a whole. Those women making $100,000 dollars per year are two-and-a-half times more likely.

But more often women don't have that choice, and take the financial hit. Much of the "wage gap" is in fact a baby gap. Karen Kornbluh notes that women without children make 90 percent of what their male counterparts earn, but working mothers earn less than three quarters of what men make. A first child lowers a woman's earnings by an average of 7.5 percent, a second child by 8 percent.

It's not so much that women leave the workforce permanently to have kids, it's that when they leave their jobs for a period they can't return. That has a ripple effect across their working lives -- costing them raises, promotions and benefits. According to economist Heather Boushey at the Center for Economic Policy Studies (CEPR), "If women have paid leave they are much more likely to go back to their jobs, and much less likely to quit or switch jobs."

Leaving the workforce temporarily to have a baby or deal with a sick child or parent costs women seniority, raises and any benefits that require a lengthy stay of employment to become vested. Former Clinton advisor Gene Sperling points out that the average time a worker needs to put in to get pension benefits -- if they get them at all in our wonderful "New Economy" -- is five years. Men's average length in the same job is 5.1 years; for women it's under four. According to the AFL-CIO, "Half of all women with income from a pension in 2002 received less than $5,600 per year, compared with $10,340 per year for men."

With our uniquely inflexible workplaces, a third of women work in "non-standard" or part-time jobs with crappy benefits or none at all. All that helps explain why women over 65 are twice as likely to live in poverty than men.

And it's not just maternity leave; according to the Institute for Women's Policy Research (PDF), only half of American workers get paid sick leave and only a third get paid leave to care of a sick kid. Forget about paid leave for taking care of an ailing parent.

Pretty much every aspect of women's reproductive work is punished economically in the American workplace. And that affects all two-earner, nuclear households -- the ideal to which we're all supposed to aspire (the wage gap is estimated to cost working families $200 billion dollars per year).

But it doesn't need to be that way. We're so far behind the rest of the world (PDF) in commonsense, pro-women and pro-family policies that we don't need to reinvent the wheel to figure out what works.

In a globally competitive environment, we need expanded parental leave, universal pre- and after-school programs, more flexible work hours and time off to take care of sick kids and elderly parents. The Center for Policy Alternatives has a whole suite of measures that would help working families balance career and home (PDF).

The CEPR's Heather Boushey proposed addressing the wage gap with tax credits. A series of bills -- the "Fair Pay Act" and the "Paycheck Fairness Act" have been floated -- and defeated -- in recent years that would have enforced the fair pay laws that are already on the books.

Just about every measure to close the wage gap or mandate parental leave policies is opposed by the "dead-enders" of a cranky old patriarchy whose views are increasingly out of step with the realities of modern life and the imperatives of a global economy. When Bill Clinton managed to squeeze the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) through Congress -- a brief, unpaid family leave measure for which only four in 10 workers qualify -- the late Strom Thurmond warned that similar measures in Europe had "contributed to a stagnating economy and unemployment." The Chamber of Commerce has been fighting the FMLA ever since, forming a fake grassroots group called "The National Coalition to protect Family Leave" to, well, destroy family leave legislation.
In fact, three out of four of the world's most competitive economies belong to Northern European countries with generous family leave policies, according to the World Economic Forum's annual rankings.

The truth is that family-friendly policies are also good for business. In his book, "The Pro-Growth Progressive," Gene Sperling reviewed the gains made by firms that have gotten ahead of the curve in workplace flexibility. He cited a study of 100 U.S. businesses that found that paid parental leave resulted in a 2.5 percent increase in profits. He cited another study which concluded that employees participating in one company's "work-life" programs were 45 percent more likely to say they'd "go the extra mile" for their employers than their colleagues who weren't in the program. Sperling concludes that giving employees more flexibility results in improved "motivation, making workers more productive" and ends up cutting costs by "reducing employee turnover."

The returns on investing in working families are high. The Department of Education estimates that the cost of universal after-school programs would be between $5 and $10 billion dollars annually -- the same as three to six weeks of the Iraq war. A study of a comparable program in North Carolina found that freeing up parents to work added $590 million dollars to that state's economy alone.

As is becoming increasingly common, progressives are making gains on these issues at the state level. California is leading the pack; in 2002, the state adopted a program that replaces slightly more than half of lost wages for six weeks for "any individual who is unable to work due to the need to care for an ill parent, child, spouse, or domestic partner, or for the birth, adoption, or foster care placement of a new child. According to the Institute for Women's Policy research, 21 other state legislatures are looking to follow suit. Real equal pay legislation has been introduced in at least 28 states.

It's time to nationalize the debate. Putting all these pieces together, you get a picture that puts the lie to the right's claim on "family values."

Working families have every reason to feel beleaguered by a culture that doesn't care about their values. They should have a clearly defined choice between progressive and conservative solutions; they can support the right-wingers who whine to Larry King about violence in videogames, but never do anything about it, or they can support liberals fighting for the United States to catch up with Mexico and Greece in terms of family-friendly public policy. Arguing for an economy that works for women and their families is the type of politics that once upon a time fueled the New Deal Coalition -- it's the promise of a humanist economy.

**This story has been corrected. In a previous version, the economic contribution of North Carolina's "Smart Start" program was given as $590 billion dollars.

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Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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Absolutely
Posted by: janvdb on Mar 16, 2006 7:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All this is so obviously correct, well, what can you say?

The only reason European-style family-support programs have not been enacted in the US is that the males who control things here think that keeping women and children under stress will make them more compliant and supplicant in intimate situations.

And, they are probably right.

So, men arrange for children to suffer so women will beg and bargain with men to help them.

This makes them feel needed, I guess.

When are the Democrats going to actually DO something for the female vote? Maybe when there is a viable third party to their left.

Jan VanDenBerg

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» RE: Absolutely...not Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Absolutely Wrong... Jasonix Posted by: DanielT28
» RE: Absolutely Posted by: afrothetics
» RE: Absolutely Posted by: greentime
» RE: Absolutely Posted by: anothername
» RE: Scandinavian women Posted by: philame
» RE: Absolutely Posted by: susannunes
» ..the only reason Posted by: nedwylie
there ya go! Divide America up into competing Identity Politics Factions!
Posted by: cry0fan on Mar 16, 2006 7:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the elite divide, they rule.

Identity Politics is where politics is defined by race and gender, by religion, by subculture. The elite just LOVE it when political activists write articles that take an Identity Politics viewpoint.

In fact the rich Americans and the megacorporations really really like to see American Leftism focus on Identity Politics so much that they funded nonprofit foundations to help convert American economics-based Leftism into American Identity Politics-based leftism.

That is American leftism these days is mostly about Identity politics--about race, gender, religion, gay rights, and other wedge issues, other non-economic issues.

Read Joan Roelof's book, THE MASK OF PLURALISM to see how the rich and megacorporations fund these non profits so that the nonprofits can fund leftist/liberal activists, organizations and websites that focus on Identity politics that divides, rather than economics based leftism that unites.

BTW, Alternet is funded by many of these nonprofit foundations, right? I wonder if the author of this article was funded by a nonprofit foundation. Right from the mouths of the elite into our ears....

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In U.S., women are the downtrodden...
Posted by: nise52 on Mar 16, 2006 8:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Society tells us to emulate the "supermom" ideal...climb the corporate ladder, de-germ your home, raise perfect little (Republican) children and be a Stepford Wife in the bedroom. And don't whine or complain about it or you're suffering from PMS or unfulfilled sexual hunger (this last line was quoted to me by a man?!).

53% of the world's population is female...when all of us get off our collective butts and DEMAND equality, it will get done. But too many of us are too busy reading COSMO and watching so-called "reality" TV to get involved. They're part of the "OMG, I broke a nail" generation.

The rest are too busy working 3 PT jobs, juggling rides to work and school (yes, the car is not starting again), and worrying about Johnny's impending birthday or Susie's braces that they can NOT afford.

If all the women in the world stopped working right now, this planet would grind to a halt within hours.

Rise up, sisters! You are NOT being appreciated for the valuable team member that you are.

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Joshua! GREAT piece!
Posted by: sln70 on Mar 16, 2006 9:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women are marginalized in so many ways. Your article lists many, many of these and I agree with the whole thing. It was well researched and written, so thank you.

I would like to add a couple of things. First - there is a fundamental misallocation of 'value' to work. This, no doubt, would be extremely tricky to reconfigure but I think it must be done. Take for example an ad I saw this weekend in my local paper for a "Janitor" at the Public Library. The duties were carpet cleaning, snow shovelling, garbage removal, and minor electrical repairs. The wage - $18.00 an hour. A similar job, IMHO, is the secretarial post. Duties require about the same effort, only secretarial is more mental than physical. Certainly education requirements are nearly the same, albeit with a different skill-set. Wage - $8.00 an hour.

WHA? I am capable of doing either of these jobs - so I thought to myself, well then I'll just apply for the janitorial position instead. The kicker? The hours of work - early mornings or late nights. I'm a mom. I'm out. How many Dads are stuck in the same way? I'll bet not many, given that they usually don't have sole-custody of their kids.

Either way, there's no real justification for the difference in pay. Calculations of pay equity probably don't even take these sorts of things into consideration, so if the REAL wage gap were researched, I wonder what it'd look like. I usually compare day-care workers with pole-climbers as another example. There are lots to choose from.

There are still female job-ghettos, and they pay less than male ones.

I was going to make a second point about menstruation and the way that workplaces have absolutely no room for this unavoidable biological hardship, but I've gone on long enough. Maybe someone else will pick up the torch. Why shouldn't there be some type of leeway for women whose biology makes them sick once a month?

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» Menstrual days Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Menstrual days Posted by: unordained
» RE: Menstrual days Posted by: sln70
» Two differences Posted by: brunowe
We need new approaches
Posted by: Morgaine Swann on Mar 16, 2006 9:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wrote an article in 2003 called Equality, Hell - How about Reparations that has a proposal for closing the wage gap. They could do it tomorrow if they wanted to, they just lack the will to do it. They aren't going to give us anything we don't demand.

The "supermom" issue is a canard - most women don't have the luxury of not working. Women provide most of the childcare and eldercare in this country, in addition to working at least one job. We need to demand compensation for their service to society, and paid leave to do it.

This world is built on the backs of women, and would collapse without our unpaid and underpaid labor. If we had any real feminist leadership, they'd call for a general strike by women and sympathetic men. See what happens to the economy when we don't prop it up. Decent leadership would also be looking for new solutions to the fact that 53% of the population has less than 14% representation in Congress, and jumping up and down about the fact that we are the only industrialized nation whose infant and maternal mortality rates are going UP. That's shameful.

They are using reproductive rights as a ruse to undermine America's right to privacy. No one seems to remember that the Constitution specifically says that rights not delineated therein are reserved to the people.

This administration sees women as property. A commodity to be exploited as far as possible with as little remuneration as they can get by the American people. Our children are nothing but cannon fodder to these war profiteers. It's no accident that so many defense contractors are in Texas. They're as addicted to wartime winfalls as the rest of our culture is to oil.

We need a Mother's Revolution. Cindy Sheehan needs help. Women are 75% of the world's poor, and women and children make up 90% of the casualties in times of war. We need to get serious about demanding real changes in our government. Refuse to let your children die for Halliburtion. Insist on a fair share of the fruits of our labor. Take the power that a 53% majority could wield with a little solidarity.

Here's one possibility - each state has 2 Senators. Why don't we require that one of them be a woman? Or, why not have a Women's Congress that deals with women's issues, the way Native American governments like the Haudenosaunee do? Why do old white men get to tell young women what they can and can't do with their bodies. That's not just socially unjust, it's creepy.

Or, why not institute our own Women's Congress. American democracy is based on the premise that when a government is unjust, the people have a right to change it. So why don't we?

Sorry for the rant, but this situation is untenable. Something has to change, and it begins with us.

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» RE: We need new approaches Posted by: Burton
» RE: We need new approaches Posted by: Burton
» Womyn owe reparations Posted by: Burton
The true meaning of Pro-Choice
Posted by: Monkey Business on Mar 16, 2006 10:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you choose to have children, you need to be prepared to face the unique challenges that come along with that decision.

As someone who chooses not to have children, I'm uncomfortable the expectations of those who do have them. I'm left wondering will I get a paid leave? Can I take time off for my personal life? Will my employers make concessions for my personal choices?

If the answers to these questions are all yes, then I'm completely on board with the benefits the author is suggesting.

If everyone is not going to be afforded these same benefits, I'll have to completely disagree, as I strongly believe in equality.

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stuff it
Posted by: sln70 on Mar 16, 2006 10:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
are you actually LISTENING to yourself? God some of you child-free are outright obnoxious. I suppose if they enacted legislation granting free university education to all from this day forward you'd be the first in line to scream that "you" had to pay, so why should anyone have it any better?

Just put a sock in it. We're talking about people who DO have family responsibilities in this thread, okay? If you want to whine about the fact that you don't have them, go somewhere where people give a flying ****

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» RE: stuff it Posted by: Deanna Zandt
» RE: stuff it Posted by: sln70
» RE: stuff it Posted by: Monkey Business
» But the thing is... Posted by: sln70
» RE: But the thing is... Posted by: Monkey Business
» RE: stuff it Posted by: Alterego
» RE: stuff it Posted by: lindalee
» RE: stuff it Posted by: Kelly
» exactly Posted by: sln70
You missed the point.
Posted by: Monkey Business on Mar 16, 2006 11:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, no, I wouldn't be screaming about free university education. In fact, I believe very strongly in free higher education for everyone, just as I believe in free healthcare for everyone. I also believe in funding for after school programs. In my opinion, education is the key to our success as individuals as well as a society.

For some people, having a family is what makes their lives worthwhile. It's what fulfills them as human beings. I have the utmost respect for those who decide to follow that path, as it is a difficult one indeed.

As a child of a single mother of three, I know all too well how it feels to come home to an empty house, how much that free school lunch meant to me because it was sometimes the only meal I would have that day, how it felt to be home alone with the flu at six years old (I was left alone with some ginger ale, crackers and a bag with paper towels so I could clean up my own vomit), the abuse myself and my siblings endured at the hands of the woman my mother had to leave us with so she could go to work, and the look of pain and regret on my mother's face when she couldn't provide us with the lives she had so desperately wanted for us.

So don't tell me about family responsibilities. I'm all too aware.

I am not a member of the "child-free" movement, but I do believe in personal responsibility. The environment I was raised in taught me to be a very self-reliant person and to be well aware of the consequences of my actions.

The point I was trying to make in my previous post was that we should all be afforded the same benefits, regardless of our personal situations. It was about equality, not punishing those who choose to have families.

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» RE: You missed the point. Posted by: cmaciain
» yes, but... Posted by: nedwylie
» RE: yes, but... Posted by: omidele
» RE: yes, but... Posted by: sln70
It's our Puritan mentality
Posted by: Moonray on Mar 16, 2006 11:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article makes good points. I would just add that it's not only women who face severe bias in the workplace but many different kinds of people, including the disabled, ethnic minorities and others.

Much of this bias is traceable to attitudes fostered by organized religion. You know the drill: The poor are in that situation because of their moral failings, women should stay home and generate babies for their husbands, contraception is immoral, all social and economic decisions should rest with recognized authority figures, etc., etc.

In one issue after another, progressives run into the same stone wall: Religion. What's worse, our tax dollars subsidize the churches through broad tax exemptions. That's especially infuriating.

No serious progress can be made -- in women's rights or any other social arena -- until we get religion out of our government and reduce its influence in our communities.

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» RE: It's our Puritan mentality Posted by: too_daft
» RE: It's our Puritan mentality Posted by: too_daft
gruntwork girls
Posted by: saywhat? on Mar 16, 2006 12:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
first thanks for this article...being a woman and knowing that the majority of the world's labor is built on the backs of us, it just makes the most fiscal sense to socialise childcare, mental health care, physical health care, maternal leave, etc. etc. ......... they have done other studies regarding, for example, mental health and have found out that the profitablity of caring for the employee far outweighs the costs of not dealing with it ie: of not showing up for work, pschyosomatic physical symptoms, etc. etc.

because this country freaks at the word "socialise" (hey how is that being reframed?- how about "cared for") we refuse to get a harness on taking care of the population at large. ......... it is because ignorance, greed and selfishness has infiltrated the politics of this nation in a historical way, and has turned greed on its head calling it "good.".......... the fact is we are socialising all the wrong things and privatising all the commonly benficial things which now serves to accomodate the few....it is like our policy practice of "bomb now- pay later", which is what has driven our economy down
the drain fast....bomb
now pay later should be reversed , as the example "pay to take care now = benefit later"' shows more economic promise....but we are all so damn hyper--we just gotta have it NOW! !!!! by god where's mine damn it??????

to end i would like to tell a story to illustrate the lack of a fair shake women get........ back in 1999 when staying in a flat in south india i watched the construction site outside my window every morning,..... women in rubber beach foot thongs would organise a fire line and load bowls of rocks , place them on their head, and walk amongst the rubble of the site........they would go up the mounds of rubbish and up 2 flights of stairs to dispense these rocks into a pile for the men above them to use....these men used these in the laying of brick. in addition, some iron and scaffolding work men were along side these brick layers....meanwhile the women were below, and as bricks and iron were dropped from up above, miracualously the women held their composure, and it seemed never got hurt....meanwhile the supervisor would sit in a lawn chair under a shady tree with the only hard hat on in the whole construction site, reading the paper and relaxing....

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Women make up more than 50% of workforce and would take 100%
Posted by: hmmm? on Mar 16, 2006 2:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of maternity leave. I worked at a small non profit group where there were 6 staff (4 women and 2 men). The ED was female and took a paid maternity leave of 3 months and then had 4 day work weeks for the next 6 months. Sounds great right? Well I always thought about the repercussions if all 4 women or even 3 were pregnant or on maternity leave at the same time. That would be 50% or more of the staff out. not only would that cause the program to stop working, we would also go broke as the budget could not support to pay for everyone's salary, nevermind the healthcare.


What are the limits to having children? Say a woman decides to have 3 kids in 5 years and works sporadically for about 24 months in the span. Does she deserve to have equal pay and standing as the same woman who chose not to start a family then?

If women are running the economy and starting all these new businesses, why dont other women flock to the women/mother friendly work environment and policies that these women have in their companies? One quick answer might be that as the owner/director they understand that the world is about the bottom line and you cant operate a business if you sacrifice the bottom line.

Face it -you cannot live in a society that is as materialistic and superfluous as ours and expect to have your cake and eat it to. You want to have kids, you need to know what you are getting into and make the decision based on the realities of the situation.

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» I completely agree. Posted by: sln70
What! You say having children requires sacrifices? Eeeegads! Call the lawyers and tanks!
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Mar 16, 2006 2:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Point taken on the issue disparity between the pay among peers of differing sexes. Has been a problem; needs to be worked on more.

But then...the tie in with having kids? Raising kids is hard work! Hard work at one job, by necessity, detracts from the hard work it takes to be successful in another. In our society (as with most societies since time out of mind) women have exercised greater responsibility with child rearing and home life in general. Thus, women's roles as child rearers and nurturers has, by necessity, detracted from their presence in the work place.

People analyzing these sorts of situations seem to have a driving desire (and compelling interest) in complicating reasons for any disparity under the sun by hurling accusations of cheauvinism, sexism, and other recently invented -isms, but the "problem" isn't really a limit placed upon females by government/establishment/society.

Rather, this "problem" is a limitation placed quite equitably on all matter throughout the universe, which can never coexist in alternate places simultaneously. To elaborate just a little, someone nursing a new born, rocking a baby, cleaning up spit-up, and changing diapers is simply at a competitive disadvantage against someone who is working non-stop at drawing up a flow-chart for a board meeting, practicing for a seminar, working out three pages of differential equations, or desiging primers at home for a pcr reaction in the lab tomorrow. That's not mean, nor is it disparate. It is reality grounded upon one of the fundamental laws of physics.

Women have, thank (fill in the blank with whatever you like to thank in these situations, from Gaia to Gore), made these sacrifices. Where would our species be if women, en masse, had insisted upon "realizing their full professional potential" by leaving the cavekiddies at home, picking up a club, and chasing mastadons with their cave-consorts? Great Scott! If the women-folk hadn't been as productive as they were at gathering foods and making home liveable, our species would've died out waiting on the men-folk to finally bag and butcher that mammoth (meals which were also important, in their own right).

Raising children requires sacrifice; to some degree, our genetic makeup dictates that women make these sacrifices more than men. The fruit of that sacrifice is nothing less than the perpetuation of the human race. Don't toss that fruit up on the scale lightly, lest you denigrate the lasting contribution of women over an arbitrary and artificial contrivance we call "money".

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» You're right, of course. Posted by: ABetterFuture
Change the World Not the Women
Posted by: anothername on Mar 16, 2006 4:26 PM   
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The issue is about how women can change the business structure for everyone, not how the system can be adapted to accommodate women.

For example, in Pittsburgh, PA, women are paid less than women in the top 70 metro areas. My direct observations link this problem to the labor movement that gave men good steel mill jobs with good family benefits. Women did not need to make lots of additional money. Now, without the steel mills, men and women suffer. Similarly, the pro-labor (read "union") Democrats have piled so many requirements for temporary agencies to deal with the reality of "permanent" workers being farmed out that people who choose to work as non-permament temporaries have seen their portion of the clients' fees dropped from about 2/3 to barely half. Yet, workers are told that we are supposed to manage our own careers, which does not agree with the concept of employer-sponsored benefits.

As for women-owned businesses, that is less than it may seem since 50% ownership is considered woman-owned. Personally, I think the requirement should be 51%, or at least 50.1%. There is some suspicion that the growth in women-owned construction businesses are from women being figurehead 50 percenters. In addition, about 3/4 of women-owned businesses are sole propreiterships (hair dressers, Avon sellers, crafts people). Then, there are the wealthy divorcees who start non-profits instead of businesses with their very big spousal payoffs. These non-profits are used to excuse the executives from paying women high compensation, just as with many non-profits. We need women-owned businesses to thirst after for-profit financial wealth and to be able to compete with the male-owned Boeings, Microsofts, Halliburtons, but I pesonally do not want my business to grow that big.

Thus, women need to stop trying to fit into a male-designed world and push for a world that better serves people who want choices in their lifestyles, regardless of their gender.

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» RE: Change the World Not the Women Posted by: anothername
Right On!
Posted by: Kelly on Mar 16, 2006 7:36 PM   
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nuf said

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» OOps Posted by: Kelly
Okay...
Posted by: ckallander on Mar 16, 2006 7:53 PM   
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So 53% percent of this worlds population is women, and without you guys this world would grind to hault?... because I'm sure if the men stopped working it would somehow continue? Those types of arguments are doubled edged and pointless.

If women aren't being appreciated for everything they do then they need to take responsibility and change it. No one is going to draft a bill demanding that women get recognition for what they do, if you aren't being appreciated for what you do then don't do it.

You can't deny the fact that women are, in general, natural care-takers. This is a TRUE observation. This is only because they are naturally more compasionate and caring than men. This is not a sexist comment, it is practically a time tested fact. No one is addressing the fact that maybe some women are happy taking care of other people and maybe it's what they want to do. Of course, I'm not debating that they shouldn't get paid the same, or more, than men, I'm just pointing out that saying that women are somehow forced into taking care of the elderly and whatnot is like saying men are forced into doing all the manual labor. No one is forcing anyone, men are good at labor and women are good at care-taking.

I think the only thing that is totally unequal is how conservatives control most of everything in this country. However, I don't believe this to be purely sexist, all male issue. I mean, republican or conservative women generally keep down their own just as much, if not more than a republican or conservative man. If a white conservative women owned say GE, I don't think much would change in that company concerning how it operates or produces or anything. Until you get someone in power with liberal and free thinking views do things really start to change.

I am in total support of women and believe that they have a much more important role than men in society, but I don't think blamming the opposite sex is going to get you anywhere. I mean, you can't have one without the other and vice versa now can you. However, change is needed in terms of maternal leave and equal pay, but it's not men holding you back, but conservative thinkers in general. (Note: I am aware most conservatives are white men).

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Another excellent article Joshua
Posted by: philame on Mar 17, 2006 12:05 AM   
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This was excellent research and writing.

I don't know where Americans could/should start because the area is completely undeveloped. What's happening in Scandinavia is men are being encouraged and/or forced to take an equal share in parental leave and childraising. I would of course love to see the same developments in the US but there isn't even space for parenthood in the American system period so what is there to share? Since the US is such the fan of privatization, I guess it would have to be done under some kind of umbrella of corporate social responsibility but that is a weak substitute imo. The developments in CA are positive though so thanks for the info on that!

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NO means NO!
Posted by: Burton on Mar 17, 2006 12:17 AM   
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What's happening in Scandinavia is men are being encouraged and/or forced to take an equal share in parental leave and childraising. I would of course love to see the same developments in the US ...

You would love to see men "forced" to do things? You advocate violence against men? I thought that feminists were against force and violence?

Men have a right to say NO to childraising. NO means NO. What part of NO do you not understand?

And how do you plan to make this work in reality? What if men simply refuse to go along with this? Then what? How do you plan to "force" men to do things when men have guns and feminists do not? And remember, most of the cops are men (or pro-male women) and what if they refuse to enforce laws "forcing" men to do things?

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Does Joshua believe in violence?
Posted by: Burton on Mar 17, 2006 12:24 AM   
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...the United States is one of only five countries out of 168 studied that doesn't mandate some form of paid maternal leave.

When you say "mandate", you mean you want the state to come in and FORCE businesses to grant leaves? What if a business owner refused to do so? Would you have a SWAT team kick in his/her door and haul off people to jail? I take it you are a supporter of the prison-industrial complex?

It's interesting that for all the quasi-pacifist rhetoric which has crept into feminism that we can have advocacy of what amounts to police state tactics: state micro-management of the economy is close to what we mean by "fascism."

But there is an alternative: why not simply form your own business and then grant everyone a living wage, say $50 an hour, a year paid leave for personal reasons, etc?

Anyone on this bulletin board ever have to make a payroll?

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» RE: Does Joshua believe in violence? Posted by: JoshuaHolland
Dearest Burton
Posted by: philame on Mar 17, 2006 1:05 AM   
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Don't have a baby if you don't want to take care it. It's that simple.

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» RE: Dearest Burton Posted by: Moosehead
» Burton Posted by: Burton
» RE: Why stop there, Burton? Posted by: Cathyblj
Emotional Issue
Posted by: anothername on Mar 17, 2006 3:47 AM   
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After reading the above posts, I have come to the conclusion that emotions rule this debate. It is amazing how much antagonism there is from both men and women.

Abigail Adams wanted women to have the right to vote in 1787. It took until 1920 for the vote to come. Then a few extra women were elected to the U.S. Congress in 1992 and suddenly commentators were tripping over themselves calling it the Year of the Women. The numbers of women in Congress and governorships has not grown in nearly 15 years.

A so-called Progressive Washington-based group with a daily e-newsletter cannot decide whether women should hold whatever military position they want or whether women should be used to yank bleeding-heart outcries when they are mowed down by government forces (military, police, or other) with men. In one report about Ukranian protests and deadly crowd control, the e-newsletter mewed that even women and children were shot at; I was left with the concept that the progressive publication thought women should not have been at the protest.

These are just some of the attitudes with which women deal daily. Just as with African Americans and the civil rights movement, there are leaps forward but most of the time we are changing mindsets and practices one person at a time.

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What took you so long?
Posted by: mothersmovement on Mar 17, 2006 5:51 AM   
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As much as I'm delighted to see these issue highlighted by AlterNet, it's quite frustrating that women in the alternative mothers' media have been writing about exactly the same issues in exactly the same way for several years. (For example, I've written about the comprehensive slate of worker- and family-friendly policies so desperately needed in the U.S. as "the Next New Deal" on a number occasions.) But apparently it takes a male reporter to lend the "motherhood problem" in the workplace an air of credibility and urgency.

Am I just a little bit grumpy about this? Well, yes, I am.

Judith Stadtman Tucker
Editor, The Mothers Movement Online

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» RE: What took you so long? Posted by: JoshuaHolland
I put Joshua Holland up to it!
Posted by: John Holland on Mar 17, 2006 6:45 AM   
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Joshua Holland isn't a mouthpiece for corporate America, he's MY mouthpiece. I put my son up to writing this piece to insure that when I need him to feed me and change my diapers, he'll get paid family leave. We tried to be clever and disguise this as a women's issue, but cry0fan saw right through us.

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Not getting it ...
Posted by: JoshuaHolland on Mar 17, 2006 8:57 AM   
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Obviously there's a lot of hostility to the ideas in this piece, which is sad. If progressives can't agree that two people with the same education level and experience, but different reproductive functions, should receive the same pay and benefits, I'm not sure that we can agree on anything.

But that's an aside. Those who are critical need to answer the central question posed by the piece: why should the United States be the only developed country in the world where a person has to find a new job in order to have a kid or take care of a sick kid or parent? Why is it that everywhere else in the world, your job is waiting for you when you return?

I showed the consequences of that difference: lower wages, lost benefits and missed promotions.

So, instead of griping about identity politics or whatever everyone's in a tizzy about, why not justify it? Those of you who are critical of the argument here obviously think the status quo's fine. So defend it.

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» RE: Not getting it ... Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Not getting it ... Posted by: sln70
» RE: Not getting it ... Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Not getting it ... Posted by: sln70
» RE: Not getting it ... Posted by: brunowe
» I made you a present Posted by: sln70
» RE: Not getting it ... Posted by: Burton
» RE: Not getting it ... Posted by: saywhat?
loril
Posted by: loril on Mar 17, 2006 9:00 AM   
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I worked for fourteen years as a "child free" employee. For most of those years I was single. It was just expected that I would be able to drop everything, cancel plans, stay late etc. if one of my coworkers had a family emergency. (May I add that singles and child free workers are not the only people asking for "frivolous leave time". i was asked to cover for people with 'dinner reservations' and T-ball games.)

I only begrudged these people silently and recognized that they needed assistance and support. However, a little respect and gratitude shown in return would have been greatly appreciated. And it was amazing how quickly these same people told me it was "impossible" for them to switch a shift with me!

Now that I am a mid life mother (temporarily out of the workfroce) I pledge that I will recognize the value of my co-worker's personal lives when I return to work. Ideally, enlightened benefits could be worked out for all.

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both sides of the fence
Posted by: loril on Mar 17, 2006 9:02 AM   
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I worked for fourteen years as a "child free" employee. For most of those years I was single. It was just expected that I would be able to drop everything, cancel plans, stay late etc. if one of my coworkers had a family emergency. (May I add that singles and child free workers are not the only people asking for "frivolous leave time". i was asked to cover for people with 'dinner reservations' and T-ball games.)

I only begrudged these people silently and recognized that they needed assistance and support. However, a little respect and gratitude shown in return would have been greatly appreciated. And it was amazing how quickly these same people told me it was "impossible" for them to switch a shift with me!

Now that I am a mid life mother (temporarily out of the workfroce) I pledge that I will recognize the value of my co-worker's personal lives when I return to work. Ideally, enlightened benefits could be worked out for all.

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both sides of the fence
Posted by: loril on Mar 17, 2006 9:02 AM   
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I worked for fourteen years as a "child free" employee. For most of those years I was single. It was just expected that I would be able to drop everything, cancel plans, stay late etc. if one of my coworkers had a family emergency. (May I add that singles and child free workers are not the only people asking for "frivolous leave time". i was asked to cover for people with 'dinner reservations' and T-ball games.)

I only begrudged these people silently and recognized that they needed assistance and support. However, a little respect and gratitude shown in return would have been greatly appreciated. And it was amazing how quickly these same people told me it was "impossible" for them to switch a shift with me!

Now that I am a mid life mother (temporarily out of the workfroce) I pledge that I will recognize the value of my co-worker's personal lives when I return to work. Ideally, enlightened benefits could be worked out for all.

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Job benefits
Posted by: Maryanne on Mar 17, 2006 10:18 AM   
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We have a small (but growing ) supermarket chain in our area that offers generous benefits to its workers. it even gives PAID TIME OFF to take your PET to the vet! (Last year it was listed as #1 company to work for in US; this year it is #2)

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Joshua Holland ran 3 businesses
Posted by: hmmm? on Mar 17, 2006 10:27 AM   
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and allowed people paid maternity leave and all this other stuff. Wow, i think the key word is the past tense of run whihc is "ran" -i.e. he no longer runs those businesses because it is impossible to pay people if they are not working. also, while everyone talks about all these scanidinavian and european countries that give time off, they dont mention the outragous taxes that these people pay and the large amount of unemployment that they face.

Also, are there limits to the amount of children someone can have on the program? what is to stop a woman from popping out a kid a year for 5 years, working 6 months per year?

The idea of forcing people (men and women) to take time off is about the stupidest thing ever said this side of Bill Oreilly doesnt even qualify further discussion.

I think you should be guaranteed your postion back and at the level you left it when you have a child. Then like any hire, after 6 mos or a year there would be the regualr review and you would get a raise or let go as deemed fit. trust me, if you are worth it, any good company will keep you and go out of there way to accomodate you. if you are not worth it, you find another job.

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» RE: Joshua Holland ran 3 businesses Posted by: JoshuaHolland
» but you can say Posted by: philame
» RE: but you can say Posted by: Burton
The only legal child abuse in the United States
Posted by: padme on Mar 18, 2006 11:52 AM   
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The work place is not the only place women are being discrimanated against.

What would you do?

Sugar and spice and everything nice.

This is suppose to every little girls life.

What happens when life is not like that?

What if your life is filled with constant abuse by the people who suppose to protect you?

For little Katelynn of Indiana, her life is filled with this from a father, stepmother and father's family; everyone but her the relatives that love her have been deined the ability to see her.

What happens when the police will not stop this?

Than try Child Protection Service, but they will not stop this either.

The next thing to do is go to the court.

What would you do if the Child Protection Services and the court helped the abusers hurt her?

The media might work but they ignore majority of average people.

In this search for help, several politicians ignored or said stop bothering them.

If these people will not help little katelynn than who will?

Will this little girl have to pay the ultimate price for these adults mistakes? What would you do?

Indiana's Shame Teardrops for Katelynn

referral sources
Mary Kay Ash Charitable Foundation :: Breaking the Silence: Children's Stories Aired on PBS http://www.mkacf.org/BreakTheSilence.html

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CORRECTION
Posted by: JoshuaHolland on Mar 19, 2006 7:38 AM   
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In the original, I cited North Carolina's "Smart Start" program as adding $590 billion dollars. The correct number is millions.

It was a dumb typo we should have caught; the entire Gross State Product of North Carolina is only $335 billion.

My bad, and thanks to the feminist-hating reader who pointed it out.

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Childbirth and its consequences
Posted by: stormchilde1975 on Mar 20, 2006 8:23 AM   
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If our way of life is to survive, someone has to have babies. If a progressive movement is to persist, progressive people need to have (and raise) babies. It happens that the ONLY people who can have babies are women.

Understand this: carrying, bearing, nursing and raising a child is an enormous burden. A mother who does so risks her health and may even lose her life. Certainly she is taking on a burden that Dad, however he may wish to, can only partly share. And certainly, he should - in as much as he is able. After all, he benefits as much as she does from the end result.

As a society we are in the same position as Dad - the child a woman carries is a benefit to us all (or would be, if we acknowledged its value in an active way), and we are unable to share fully in the burden that produces this benefit. The least we can do, one might think, is help reduce the price paid by women who choose to carry this burden for us: paid medical costs, paid family leave and subsidized quality day care would be a good start.

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It's your job!!!
Posted by: bgamett on Mar 20, 2006 10:45 AM   
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Having children changes your life. Period. End of story. After you have a child, your outlook, the direction your life was going, everything in the universe is suddenly different. However, you did choose to have that child. Change what you do to make your life what you want for your child. Move somewhere, find a different job, etc. Don't be lazy and moan that your company or your government doesn't do enough for your family. You are the guardian of your family. Change what you do so that you and your child can be happy. Bitching and moaning never got anybody anywhere. Look out for your own.

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» RE: It's your job!!! Posted by: annamargaret1866
» RE: It's your job!!! Posted by: bgamett
It's frustrating but talking is progress
Posted by: mviscid on Mar 20, 2006 10:52 AM   
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I just think all this is great: the article, the discussion the drama. As a feminist, I've always thought the biggest quality-of-life issues in American society must be taken up by men as well as women to get real change going. Although the article unearthed differences in readers, I think we're paving the road to progress. Did they talk about these issues so candidly twenty years ago? It's too bad if they didn't, maybe things wouldn't be so pinched now.

To touch on the child-free compensating for those with families at work, I think the poster who talked about both sides of the fence got it perfectly: we personally don't mind helping out families as long as our contribution is recognized, personally. I realize busy work and family life makes for frazzled parents and that sucks. Still, it's no reason to take others' help for granted. Just part of being thoughtful. If our culture wasn't so freakin go-it-alone this wouldn't be as big an issue for some. Because everyone would get the leave they needed! I think the article mentioned something like that. :P

But I do feel that unless men become much more active in the fight for women's equality, we won't get far. Because categorically, men will have to share their privledge's spoils -- power-holding and wage equality. What's that factoid about newlyweds? That men do 17% less housework after marriage and women do 33% more? Metaphorically, that defines in a nutshell the current state of gender equality. (i'm a slobbish writer so household cleanliness isn't at the top of my list of Patriarchal Wrongs to Be Righted.)

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» housework ratios Posted by: hmmm?
An economic Koyannisqatsi
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Mar 21, 2006 12:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, another article highlighting the economic inequalities between the sexes. As a member of the male species we men have it wrong.
We seem to think we can control women by paying them less and making them more dependent on the male-dominated state. Being a woman shouldn't be a crime. I can't accept this.
Women should get the same rate of pay as us. Even this topic was discussed in the WNBA and in tennis. So it was a victory for Belgian star Kim Clijsters to walk away with a $2 million dollar prize last year at a major event while getting as much as Roger Federer.
It's encouraging to see women get paid well. After all, the onus of child raising disproportionately falls on them while they're working one or even two jobs. I know some who do this while having to raise kids. They do get tired but somehow find strength to carry on.
Anyway, things have to change for the benefit of American society. We need to treat women as equals. We're failing miserably at this and our life is out of balance-an economic Koyannisqatsi made exclusively by Americans.

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Burton
Posted by: Burton on Apr 4, 2006 12:41 AM   
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After reading the above posts, I have come to the conclusion that emotions rule this debate.

It's pretty mild here compared to a lot of sites I have been on. I suppose a lot of people want to express their frustration. But my point is that rather than railing online against the inequities, why not go out in the real world, establish your own business, and implement what you consider to be a fair wage structure?

Abigail Adams wanted women to have the right to vote in 1787. It took until 1920 for the vote to come.

A voting franchise for every citizen is a recent development in history. How many people voted in Europe from, say, the fall of Rome to 1848? In the US, there originally were property qualifications for voting though these were removed in the 19th century. US women could also vote in some states in the 19th century. And let us not forget until the Civil Rights Act of 1965 that minorities were not guaranteed a vote.

Of course, today half of Americans do not vote anyway.

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Burton
Posted by: Burton on Apr 4, 2006 12:49 AM   
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As a member of the male species we men have it wrong.
We seem to think we can control women by paying them less and making them more dependent on the male-dominated state.


You keep saying "we". You mean you pay women less? What business do you run? Or you claiming that I pay women less?

I edit a magazine and I pay women authors the same as men. I will ask the publisher (who happens to be a woman) if she cuts 30% off of female writers' checks.

Being a woman shouldn't be a crime. I can't accept this.

The reason you can not accept this is that the statement that it's a crime to be a woman it utter nonsense. Cite any statute which makes it a crime to be a woman in the US. When was the last time you saw on COPS a woman being arrested for being a woman? Check out the FBI Uniform Crime Reports (at fbi.gov) and give me the stats on the number of arrests for felony womanhood. (Aside from editing a magazine, I also teach criminal justice on occasion, so I would be interested insofar in relating information on this crime to my students. The female police officers would be especially interested.)

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