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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

Michael Moore: Madoff Is a Convenient Distraction for a Bunch of Crooks Who Aren't in Jail

By Michael Moore, Time Magazine. Posted May 2, 2009.


Had Madoff just followed the example of his fellow tycoons, he could have legally multiplied his wealth many times over, legally.
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The following is Michael Moore's entry on Bernie Madoff  for Time Magazine's issue of  The World's Most 100 Influential People.

Elie Wiesel called him a "God." His investors called him a "genius." But, proving correct that old adage from the country and western song, you never really know what goes on behind closed doors.

Bernie Madoff, for at least 20 years, ran a Ponzi scheme on thousands of clients, among them the people you and I would consider the best and brightest. Business leaders, celebrities, charities, even some of his own relatives and his defense attorney were taken for a ride (this has to be the first time a lawyer was hosed by the client).

We're clearly in one of those historic, game changing years: up is down, red is blue and black is president. Aside from Obama himself, no person will provide a more iconic face of this end-of-capitalism-as-we-know-it year than Bernard Lawrence Madoff.

Which is too bad. Yes, he stole $65 billion from some already quite wealthy people. I know that's upsetting to them because rich guys like Bernie are not supposed to be stealing from their own kind. Crime, thievery, looting -- that's what happens on the other side of town. The rules of the money game on Park Avenue and Wall Street are comprised of things like charging the public 29% credit card interest, tricking people into taking out a second mortgage they can't afford, and concocting a student loan system that has graduates in hock for the next 20 years. Now that's smart business! And it's legal. That's where Bernie went wrong -- his scheming, his trickery was an outrage both because it was illegal and because he preyed on his side of the tracks.

Had Mr. Madoff just followed the example of his fellow top one-percenters, there were many ways he could have legally multiplied his wealth many times over. Here's how it's done. First, threaten your workers that you'll move their jobs offshore if they don't agree to reduce their pay and benefits. Then move those jobs offshore. Then place that income on the shores of the Cayman Islands and pay no taxes. Don't put the money back into your company. Put it into your pocket and the pockets of your shareholders. There! Done! Legal!

But Bernie wanted to play X-games Capitalism, run by the mantra that's at the core of all capitalistic endeavors: Enough Is Never Enough. You have the right to make as much as you can, and if people are too stupid to read the fine print of their health insurance policy or their GM "100,000-mile warranty," well, tough luck, losers. Buyers beware!

It would be too easy -- and the wrong lesson learned -- to put Bernie on TIME's list all by himself. If Ponzi schemes are such a bad thing, then why have we allowed all of our top banks to deal in credit default swaps and other make-believe rackets? Why did we allow those same banks to create the scam of a sub-prime mortgage? And instead of putting the people responsible in the cell block in Lower Manhattan, where Bernie now resides, why did we give them huge sums of our hard-earned tax dollars to bail them out of their self-inflicted troubles? Bernard Madoff is nothing more than the scab on the wound. He's also a most-needed and convenient distraction. Where's the photo on this list of the ex-chairmen of AIG, Merrill Lynch and Citigroup? Where's the mug shot of Phil Gramm, the senator who wrote the bill to strip the system of its regulations, or of the President who signed that bill? And how 'bout those who ran the fake numbers at the ratings agencies, the lobbyists who succeeded in making sleazy accounting a lawful practice, or the stock market itself -- an institution that's treated like the Holy Sepulchre instead of the casino that it is (and, like all other casinos, the house eventually wins).

And what of Madoff's clients themselves? What did they think was going on to guarantee them incredible returns on their investments every single year -- when no one else on planet Earth was getting anything like that? Some have admitted they did have an inkling "something was up," but no one really wanted to ask what it was that was making their money grow on trees. They were afraid they might find out it had nothing to do with gardening. Many of Madoff's victims have told investigators that, over the years, they have made much more than the original investment they gave Bernie. If I buy a stolen car from the guy down the street, the police will take that car from me regardless of whether I knew it was stolen. If I knew it was stolen, then I go to jail for receiving stolen property. Will these "victims" give back their gains that were fraudulently obtained? Will the head of Goldman Sachs reveal what he was doing at the meetings with the Fed chairman and the Treasury secretary before the bailout? Will Bank of America please tell us what they've spent $45 billion of our TARP money on?

That's probably going too far. Better that we just put Bernie on this list.


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See more stories tagged with: citigroup, merrill lynch, morgan stanley, bill clinton, wall street, michael moore, bank of america, bailout, phil gramm, aig, goldman sachs, global financial crisis, john thain, bernie madoff, tarp, ponzi scheme, jpmorgan chase, business news, edward liddy, vikram pandit, ken lewis, bernard madoff, gfc, jamie dimon, john mack, lloyd blankfein

Michael Moore is an Academy Award-winning filmmaker and author. Moore's new documentary on the wonders of capitalism will be in movie theaters this fall.

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'We're clearly in one of those game changing years'
Posted by: outlook on May 2, 2009 12:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And the chickens are coming home to roost. The mere fact that you have written this article, Mr Moore, is a sign of the times. 'Transparency' is the new buzz-word, and it is bringing all the scum and scam to the surface. The party is over for the 'Ponzis' too bad they havn't realised it yet.

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Loved "Sicko" ... Bring on "Bankster"
Posted by: mmckinl on May 2, 2009 12:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And you can show how Obama's boys Summers and Geithner are continuing and enlarging the Bankster ass rape of America that Paulson started.

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» RE: Loved "Sicko" ... Bring on "Bankster" Posted by: alexandra_hamilton
One Check Bernie Should Have Written
Posted by: DrBrian on May 2, 2009 12:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Bernie had made a hefty contribution to Obama's campaign he'd have been bailed out by Geithner and still going strong.

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» Probably not true Posted by: ReallyBearish
Health care has gone the way of Wall Street
Posted by: tmullins on May 2, 2009 1:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Profit care comes ahead of patient care in Tennessee and Virginia.

http://www.wisecountyissues.com/?p=62

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All I can say is....
Posted by: scooter74 on May 2, 2009 1:28 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing will change! Even after all this, it'll be status quo soon enough....sigh.....

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» Things CAN Change! Posted by: Jaipurr
» RE: Things CAN Change! Posted by: Marjiro
» RE: Things CAN Change! Posted by: Cory.Goodman
» RE: All I can say is.... Posted by: LTBROWN
OK, Mike, how's about citing the really big Ponzi...
Posted by: gazooks on May 2, 2009 1:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... as in the perpetual theft of trillions through the stealth FED policy of inflation. Truly the biggest, baddest and longest running scam guaranteeing the existence of impoverishment to an economic subclass.

Theft of the grandest scale from the pockets of the working poor that, despite the mindlessly used and subtly deflective phrase "adjusted for inflation", is the psychological model and foundation for ALL scams private and public which reinforces the illusion that it's "normal" and serves "our" economic health.

It's fraud of macro magnitude accepted by a sleepwalking populace.

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» here's a starting point Posted by: gellero1
» it is true Posted by: Cory.Goodman
constant crime
Posted by: cbishopp on May 2, 2009 2:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The best and brightest of this nation are usually criminals and/or at least one generation off. Despite the Great Comeuppance of the financial crisis, corporate malfeasance continues unabated. Only a negligible few have been convicted of any crime and with numbers like 3 trillion being thrown around Bernie Madoff just doesn't impress me anymore.
The Savings and Loan Scandal, Enron, the entire war in Iraq, the war on terror, and now the great bailout of 2008/2009 (just to name a few)... we have been pilfered and picked clean and a small percentage goes back to the the government that makes these actions not only legal but patriotic. This still pales in comparison to the inequity of our monetary system and the slavery of a population through corporate control of community resources and a flailing health care system.
We should be happy not to be getting bombed like everybody else.
We are accustomed to constant crime and almost accepting of it as a reality of our political and economic comprehension.
The balance of government does not seem to be a suspension of personal rights as defined by the Greek city state but more a suspension of social mores and a stalemate of malfeasance and self interest.

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» RE: constant crime Posted by: lobstermike
The Real Crooks Are The Federal Reserve Bankers
Posted by: atomic on May 2, 2009 2:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why does the Federal Reserve Bank which is privately owned print and control our money supply ... basically loaning us money and then charging the American people interest on it ...

Why don't we maintain our own money supply and distribution? The Federal Reserve bankers have never been audited ... they are not accountable to the government even though we are made to think they are. Haven't you noticed that the banks are getting everything they want?

Oh sure they find a few to take down so it looks like the elite are being caught ... but they're not ... they run our government and have crushed the Constitution ... we live in a matrix of propaganda and lies ... why do you think so many resources and money have been pushed into the television industry?

That shinny color box is a tool ... it tells us what to think, how to spend money, who to worship, what to do with our lives.

If we really wanted freedom we'd wake up and see the bars all around us. We notice that while we are all out raged about the torture no one is held accountable ... and they never will be.

This will burn itself out like everything else ... hell we have no problem with the fact that over a million Iraqis are dead and 4.5 are refugees because of us. But we are spreading democracy and fighting terrorism ... bull crap. That's all a big hoax.

No nothing will happen. Obama will do nothing and the banks will continue to steal from the working class until we are broken down into the equivalent of a third world country.

It's over ... we lost ... a long time ago. Unless you want to turn it around ... start calling for the end to the Federal Reserve criminal enterprise .. Take away their power and abolish their mafia branch of thugs the IRS. End their power over us. Stop expecting them to take care of us while they use us and feed on us.

This is evil people .... These bankers are not quaint family members ... they are blood sucking killers and we have to stop letting them do this to us ... we can stop them ... all we have to do is ignore their attempts to make us fight each other and turn the spot light on them.

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Bernie Madoff is only the street dealer, even if the street is Wall Street...
Posted by: Suzon on May 2, 2009 2:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...using law for criminal purposes has a long history. It goes back at least as far as 1067 when the rapist, arsonist and murderer William the Conquerer granted the first charter of his dynasty to the Corporation of the City of London, arguably the world's most important financial center.

To this day royal charters spell out that one of the privileges of incorporation is special treatment by government and courts.

And who rules over most of the world's off-shore tax havens? The current monarch of the Norman-English dynasty. America has the misfortune of covertly remaining an outpost of that dynasty.

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Maybe not the end of the world
Posted by: Perry Logan on May 2, 2009 3:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not to waste time with cognitive dissonance: Obama is a complete train wreck. As many have noted, he is blowing almost everything.

We needed another FDR, and we get some kinda near-neocon. :(

But I don't agree with the widespread opinion that the End is Nigh and that the bankers have fooled us all and will eat the rest of our poor nation for lunch.

While this may be how it goes down, I'm more inclined to see what's happening as a painful turnaround from a throughly screwed up system.

Keep in mind the Repubs have spent at least the last 30 years futzing up our political system.

Everywhere you look, the entire political landscape is tilted 90 degrees to the Right. The media has been corporatized into a virtual Republican mouthpiece. The Fairness Doctrine is gone. Polls are routinely weighted in favor of the Republicans. Right-wing think-tank fantasies are repeated ceaselessly on the network news.

The bad guys own the radio stations, so every unstable white guy in the country has his own radio show. Massive Republican skullduggery passes unnoticed, while the most scrofulous rumors about Democrats are headline news.

Even when Republicans screw up beyond the imagination of God, someone always pops in to say "Well you know...the Democrats are just as bad." People believe this stuff through the sheer power of repetition.

Meanwhile, the districts are gerrymandered for the Repubs. Most of our votes are still being counted by wildly partisan right-wing companies. Candidates no one one wants--i.e. Republican candidates--can easily beat the best of Democrats, able to count on five to ten times as much money as the Dems. Right-wing groups can launch massive smear campaigns at the drop of a hat.

The propaganda is as one-sided as it gets. For decades, we've been treated to the endlessly-repeated meme that America is headed to the right, or has become more right-wing, or has always been right-wing, when a child can see the opposite is true. (Look what happened when the Pubs tried to get rid of Social Security. This would not have occurred in a conservative country.)

In this right-tilted atmosphere, the Democratic leadership have become severely compromised over the years. Many Democratic leaders are so far to the right of their party, they don't even know it--as when our representatives stamp their feet impatiently when we ask for a single-payer healthcare system.

Yes, and we screwed up with Obama. What a boner! :(

But it's poor logic to say this proves the parties are essentially the same or that there is no hope whatsoever for a turnaround. We are living in a heavily-rigged system which has corrupted many Democrats and pulled them forcibly to the right--that's all.

Most Democrats already know Obama is a bummer. But if Obama represented an attempt by the bankers to perpetuate their rule, they would be proceeding in a more subtle way, not doing things that seem designed to infuriate progressives. It is not going down like a conspiracy.

We still have our party. It just needs to be progressivized. We still have Dennis Kucinich and a host of other righteous people, and we're gonna vote a whole lot more in.

Democrats have been functioning in a system rigged against them from top to bottom and many of them had to adapt to survive. It does not follow that we are facing the end of civilization. The nation has turned around and is now asking for what the real Democrats want. It's just going to take some time and work to turn the system around.

As Lou Reed tells us, it takes a Busload of Faith to get by.

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» RE: Maybe not the end of the world Posted by: Cory.Goodman
Bailouts; Simply a Transfer of Wealth
Posted by: AlteredStates on May 2, 2009 4:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we are witnessing is the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of the world. We have been setup by the ruling class.

Example: Why would the people who invented the sub-prime loan scam do this in the first place? They knew that the loans would eventually go sour; it's just common sense. And, then they invented Credit Default Swaps; an insurance policy that didn't insure anything, because it was based on the assumption that Real Estate would continue to rise... indefinitely. But, they didn't care, they were making trillions of dollars along the way and planed on having the governments of the world bail them out, if/when, the bubble burst (and bubbles always burst).

When Hank Paulson presented his "the sky is falling routine" to the Congress and the White House, he was playing the role of a lifetime. The "insiders" knew the score long before September 2008, but they kept it to themselves, along with a few highly trusted individuals in government. These people are not stupid. They live and breath finance. They leveraged their "assets" beyond the breaking point, and didn't care if they failed, because of the safety net the taxpayer would provide when the bottom fell out of the market.

These Wall Street barons live in an "Alice In Wonderland" world that is beyond the average person's comprehension. Example: When Hank Paulson left Goldman Sachs to become the Treasury Secretary, he left with a 500 million dollar "golden parachute"; and that was just a parting gift to show their appreciation for setting things up for Washington to take the fall. That was in addition to what he had made while working on Wall Street.

We were blindsided by the Masters of Reality; an elite club of billionaires who know how to rig the market to their advantage. The "outsiders" are just that, "outsiders"; the ones who gamble and many times lose. The "outsiders" are like Las Vegas "whales" who feed the money machine that makes the casinos work. When you gamble in Vegas, you are taking a chance, just like the chance you take when you gamble on Wall Street. Most people lose; you can't beat the "house"; the "house" nearly always wins. It is setup that way, but the lure of "big money" is what keeps them coming back for more, until, many times, you are broke.

That, my friends, is Wall Street. It used to be an engine that created capital for true investment, but it has turned into a casino for "insiders only"!

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It's the America Way
Posted by: LTBROWN on May 2, 2009 4:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robbing, Killing and Stealing, while those who don't have [or didn't start off with] wealth aren't really counted nor forecast in the UP side of flourishment. In other words, this country was built on the backs of the impoverished and subclass hero's. But those hero's were never calculated in the huge scheme of things. Like getting REAL WEALTH or being counted as a whole. That's the reason why President Obama's plans take a complete over haul of the present system. He is trying to include every living American who works hard. He's trying to give us a chance to really have the American dream, AS A REALTIY!

It's not taking money from others or Socialism. It's evening the playing field so that regular working people can have a savings account and send their children to college too. Not just the super wealthy.

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» RE: It's the America Way Posted by: richholland
» RE: It's the America Way Posted by: Jaipurr
Go Directly to GO and Collect: Your Self RESPECT and Dignity!
Posted by: Ottomatic on May 2, 2009 4:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Highwaymen or Schlock Brokers?
What's the Difference?
And they called it investing?

I call it
Pump and Dump.
The Pyramid Scheme collapsed and look who’s holding the bag?

Who lost his nest egg?
Who got scammed?
After a Life Time of Hard work
The Baby Boomers get robbed!
By the People and Government sworn to protect them.

1st Outsourced, marginalized and propagandized
2nd Sickened by all the Franken foods, Pollution, Political-lies and Poison.
Then rocked, rolled and robbed.

The Creed of GREED:
Rape, Pillage and Plunder!
It’s open season on the poor working man as
The Corpirates of the Caribbean!
Broad side your savings!

Talk about blind justice.
The Three Stooges could have done a better job protecting you.
The three branches of our Government are more like:
The Monkeys hear NO, see NO and speak NO EVIL!

And the saddest thing of all is?
All the poor slobs think that it was their fault!
So brainwashed that they blame it on themselves

It was highway robbery.
It was a Gang Bang.
It was all ILLEGAL!
For starters:
Throw all the crooked Politicians and corporate Crooks in PRISON and throw away the keys.

Why does history keep repeating itself?
Why do the scandals keep getting larger and larger?
While our lives keep getting worst?
It is a reflection of the political climate and culture in this Country.
The Corpirate Culture
Where you're forced to except less
And always asked to sacrifice?

The playing field is tilted!
The Capitalistic System is a failure, morally and monetarily bankrupt.
Any system based on GREED must FAIL.

Stand aside and watch it slide.

The Con goes on.
2 1/3 Million Poor People rot in Prison for victimless crimes and trumped up charges while
The CORPIRATE CROOKS are allowed to walk free
Is this Justice?
All the King’s: Politicians and Henchmen
Will never be able to
Put your Nest Egg
Back together again.

Only you can do that
By opting out.

Where's the BEEF?
There is nothing left to steal.
Once upon a time,
We made something in America.
Now our bones are bleaching in the sun
After being picked clean by
Vultures!

The Smartest and Brightest?
Is this the best we can do?
Is this what they teach at Harvard?
Something is wrong!
Something is terribly
George W. Bush Wrong!

There has to be another answer and
Here it is:
Take any Federal Reserve Notes you have left and buy your families FREEDOM

Join
The Micro-Democracy Revolution!
Eliminate the middleman.
Go DIRECTLY to GO and collect your self RESPECT and Dignity!
Become self reliant, sufficient and efficient.
Turn off the BOOB TUBE and
Turn on your imagination.
Think outside of the BOX!
Use that work shop in your garage to help
Build the Tools that we’ll need to get out of this mess.

Using the best of what we are and know
Let’s get back to work and
START OVER!
I believe in you and
Now it is the time to
Start believing in yourself.

Begin in your own backyard.
Plant a Victory Garden.

Go Local
Go GREEN
Go Organic

This July 4th
Celebrate Independence Day a little differently
By truly becoming more Independent
Throw off the corporate yoke of tyranny
Our forefathers did it once and so can we.

Survive and Prosper!

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Who cares?
Posted by: hirondelle on May 2, 2009 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm always interested in what Michael Moore has to say but really, who gives a damn about Madoff and those who lost millions?
This story, endlessly played out on all the networks doesn't affect me or anyone I know. In fact, it doesn't affect 99.9999% of all Americans.
Those who gave their money to Madoff were sitting pretty, thinking they were being taken care of by one of their own. But imagine the horror, to realize this guy wasn't walking on water and couldn't make 11% every year without fail.
Come on! what were they thinking? Madoff's clients are savvy people-one doesn't get wealthy by being an idiot. But one can lose by feeling smug and self-satisfied.

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» RE: Who cares? Posted by: Marjiro
» RE: Who cares? Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Who cares?So True- Posted by: dragonlady620
What I don't understand is, I don't have a MBA from
Posted by: drfun on May 2, 2009 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
some "Institution" of higher learning and I am still making just as many $'s before the bailouts began as I am now, by following a simple formula that even Bernie could have followed.

Yet these greedy SOB's thought they could extract more $'s from the system by using Bernie's method, well you all reap what you sew.

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Extradict (Rendition) them to their Foreign investors and victims
Posted by: Purple Girl on May 2, 2009 7:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obviously the Wall Street Ponzi Schemes spanned the Global- Let's open up prosecution to the Global Community, and extradict the MF'ers to the countries who suffered the most- those who relied on Western countries for their Very survival.
Madoff is not the only one who screwed Charities, every Wheel Dealer who helped collapse the economic wealth of the Middle class created huge deficits in numerous charities donation base- as a country and as individuals.
Oh they derailed our economy- helped lose our jobs, thus our homes and community aid and services- but they laid waste to those who have depended on US throughout the World.they didn't just committ Economic Treason against US, they committed Crimes against Humanity.How many have starved to death because of lack of US aid, how many have died from lack of medical care, will die from a lack of inocculations, or condoms?- and will this situation create an even graver pandemic, or a national security risk, than just a Flu.
Oh I want them to be brought to justice- but I see no reason to grant them the mild forms they could face here- Better to send them to countries with harsher forms- Just like the Bushies condoned. How about a lil' 'rendition' for the Wall Streeters, and the Bushies ah? they claim it's not illegal Right?So before we rush into defining the Bush era doctrines illegal we may want to utilize them first, for those in this country who who posed a danger to our & the Worlds 'safety'. Revenge a Dish best Served Cold- ah Bushies and WallStreeters?

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Top Senate Democrat: Bankers 'Own' the US Congress
Posted by: sunnywater on May 2, 2009 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
May 01, 2009 "Salon.com" -- Sen. Dick Durbin, on a local Chicago radio station this week, blurted out an obvious truth about Congress that, despite being blindingly obvious, is rarely spoken: "And the banks -- hard to believe in a time when we're facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created -- are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place."

One might think it would be a big news story for the second most-powerful member of the U.S. Senate to baldly state that the Congress is "owned" by the bankers who spawned the financial crisis and continue to dictate the government's actions. But it won't be. The leading members of the media work for the very corporations that benefit most from this process.

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Kenneth Lay
Posted by: linecrosser on May 2, 2009 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
K.L. did it right. Not the stealing of all the money, the dying before any legal action could be completed before he died. Leaving all the loot to his family. Why we're treating all of these white collar criminal different than medium to large scale drug dealers is beyond me. When drug dealers are tried and convicted they loose everything. All of their assets are considered to be, gains made by crime are forbidden fruit and confiscated. That's what should be happening to all of these corporate thieves. Freeze and seize everything, make their families pay. Let their children sleep in unlocked u-haul trailers and attend public schools without showers, clean cloths, or breakfast. The white collar criminal need to feel the pain they've caused or it will happen again. The only other way to prevent a repeat of this mess, would be to sterilize the children, to remove their DNA from the planet. The masses must actually, mass. True patriots need to ammo up. We need to do it no for the sake of our children.

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» RE: Kenneth Lay Posted by: Marjiro
One bright spot.
Posted by: monkeywrench on May 2, 2009 7:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not all of Madoff's investors were wealthy; ol' Bernie also stole from some moms and pops who had invested through certain organizations and brokerages. And, don't forget, some of the organizations that went under ran pension funds for other moms and pops. And, let's not forget all of the charities – and all of the people those charities helped – that Bernie's scheme destroyed.

The tiny silver lining in this? Even criminals have some ethics and codes, and from what I understand from an interview with someone who had spent time in prison, people who rob banks are cool, but people who swindle moms and pops and charities are on nearly the same level as child molesters in the prison hierarchy. Bernie will be a marked man in prison and is not going to have an easy time of it at all.

Now, if we can just find a few more people on Wall Street and in Washington to join him. (I wonder how Phil Gramm will look in an orange jumpsuit?)

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» RE: One bright spot. Posted by: Cory.Goodman
One bright spot.
Posted by: monkeywrench on May 2, 2009 7:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not all of Madoff's investors were wealthy; ol' Bernie also stole from some moms and pops who had invested through certain organizations and brokerages. And, don't forget, some of the organizations that went under ran pension funds for other moms and pops. And, let's not forget all of the charities – and all of the people those charities helped – that Bernie's scheme destroyed.

The tiny silver lining in this? Even criminals have some ethics and codes, and from what I understand from an interview with someone who had spent time in prison, people who rob banks are cool, but people who swindle moms and pops and charities are on nearly the same level as child molesters in the prison hierarchy. Bernie will be a marked man in prison and is not going to have an easy time of it at all.

Now, if we can just find a few more people on Wall Street and in Washington to join him. (I wonder how Phil Gramm will look in an orange jumpsuit?)

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» RE: One bright spot. Posted by: richholland
bblinky
Posted by: h2oman on May 2, 2009 7:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That we continue the scam under BHO should be the point of this missive. It was bad enough when Bush enabled the banksters with Paulson, but too ironic that Obama now enables them with Geithner.

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» RE: bblinky Posted by: Marjiro
» RE: bblinky Posted by: DrDon
» RE: bblinky Posted by: Cory.Goodman
MICHAEL MOORE PROPAGANDA FILM TO BAMBOOZLE PUBLIC ON SOC HEALTHCARE..
Posted by: SassyFrassy on May 2, 2009 10:34 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here we have the DEMS always needing a bigger shovel for the level of UTOPIAN propaganda they want to throw at the UNSUSPECTING PUBLIC.

wanna? know the latest??? Michael moore made a progpaganda film where they attempt to bamboozle the PUBLIC by claiming CUBA'S healthcare is better than the USA ....and that the USA should go to the CUBAN model for healthcare.

WANNA KNOW??? what the reality is and whaaat they are really HIDING... the reality is in CUBA people have to BEG FROM TOURISTS for allergy inhalers and aspirin. You can bet if Americans are allowed to be bamboozled into Socialist healthcare DEMS will make SURE USA is WORSE OFF than CUBA.

According to the new stimulus if your child needs antibiotics and the GOV only wants to give them Asprin or NOTHING guess whaaat they will get ASPIRIN or NOTHING.

Whats worse.. if your/adult/child are X percent sick they ARE LEFT TO DIE.

Soc healthcare is MORE expensive AND gives NO HEALTHCARE. We are no scholar, but you don't need to be a scholar to SEE whaaat is wrong with the DEMS scenario.

DEMS LIED to claim our healthcare system is broken. SOCIALIST HEALTHCARE is MORE EXPENSIVE and gives NO HEALTHCARE.

PEOPLE, OUR MARKET BASED HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IS ONE OF THE BEST IN THE WORLD. Why, sure it's not perfect. BUT THE SHORTCOMINGS it faces such as high cost of drugs and insurance---are in part THE results of the inroads the SOCIALISTS AND LIBERALS have already made into our market based health care system.

THE REAL SOLUTION TO fixing HEALTHCARE ISN'T to make UNCLE SAME/DEMS your doctor ....BUT to GIVE YOU THE PUBLIC MORE CHOICE.

ALLOWING the DEMS socialize healthcare not only would prove expensive but DEADLY. Think about it?? DEMS WANT TO SPEND MORE MONEY BUT DENY PUBLIC the meds and services it needs while GOV POCKETS THE CASH TO SPEND ON PORK.

don't ALLOW yourselves to be put off seek LEGISLATIVE and LEGAL ACTION TO KICK STIMULUS OUT AND BAILOUT. go see --American center for law and justice and stoptheaclu.com

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» How many come here? Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Your'e way off base here- Posted by: dragonlady620
» RE:I AM GONNA TRY TO BE NICE Posted by: walldodger1969
Riddle me this
Posted by: willymack on May 2, 2009 11:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How is it that the USA is unique in the world in placing one of the most important issues affecting our national health in the hands of avaricious monsters? How is it that the aforementioned monsters will almost certainly use the ill-gotten money, extorted from their vic-er, I mean-customers to ruin any chance for health care reform, let alone single-payer universal health care here? They got their money from US, after all, and they use it to bribe crooked politicians to vote their way. They can do this easily because of the rampant corruption on Wall street and in Washington, and the fact that they so often slither out of paying claims, while our elected leaders look the other way, having been slipped some moolah under the table. Meanwhile, on the drug company side, bogus panaceas for a vast list of ills, some real, but mostly phony, and ALWAYS GROSSLY OVERPRICED, are peddled as in the days of the snake oil salesmen in the old west, without even a pretense of oversight. These two evil giants have been given their power and wealth by a combination of a gullible public and crooked congresspeople and senators. It appears the ONLY way to reverse their evil is to arrest the crooks, seize their assets, put them on trial, and then, in jail. Who wants to bet on how soon that'll happen?

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» RE: iddle me this Posted by: lyta
Michael Moore is a convenient distraction from the activities of the Clinton Crime Family.
Posted by: Lazarus Long on May 2, 2009 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And he has too much time on his hands. He needs to get a real job.

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the tip of the iceberg
Posted by: gGreen on May 2, 2009 11:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You could probably uncover trillions of fraud if you actually investigated the plutocracy in the US. That is, of course counting only the "illegal" accounting tricks.

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Sell Short.
Posted by: undead on May 2, 2009 11:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You want justice, sell the government short.

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» And how do you do that? Posted by: ReallyBearish
Power over government
Posted by: folkie on May 2, 2009 12:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are there really still people who think that if 90% of us loudly and angrily opposed the bailouts, as we did just before Obama was elected, he would listen to us? Then why didn't he? BECAUSE WE DID!

When you vote, you are delegating your power to others to make your decisions for you.

They are NOT your representatives because you have no way to hold them accountable during their terms of office when you are paying their salaries and they are acting against your interests.

Delegating your power to people you cannot hold accountable is criminally insane.

Insane because you are not just delegating to them your personal power, but power over our national treasury and our military, so that they can then do whatever they want in your name and claim that you granted your consent, the consent of the governed, when you voted.

Criminally insane because this has already resulted in torture, crimes against humanity, illegal wiretapping, deregulating banks, and much more that used to be considered criminal until the criminals in power decriminalized themselves.

Stop voting. Demand accountability. Tell everyone that no matter what is on the ballot, political races between a devil and an angel, abortion, gay marriage, guns, god, whatever, you will not vote until you can hold your government responsible. Insist that you will not hire anyone you cannot fire for cause. That you will not give anyone your power of attorney if you cannot immediately terminate it the moment it is abused. That we're not children, that a majority of us want single-payer, 90% of us oppose the bailouts, and we don't need anyone to do our voting for us, we have a right to vote directly on issues, laws, and budgets ourselves. That the government, the political parties, the voting machine vendors, and the corrupt elections officials are unnecessary and we are quite capable of voting and counting votes ourselves. We learned how in kindergarten. They can't get it right, so they should get lost. We don't want Congress or the Supreme Court telling us who we can or can't vote for, or overruling the popular vote and installing candidates before the popular vote count is even finished.

Direct democracy is an old American tradition that still exists in some New England states where the citizens themselves vote directly on issues, laws, and budgets. In countries with democratic forms of government, not only can the citizens DIRECTLY (no electoral college, Congress, or Supreme Court intervention) elect their leaders, but they can DIRECTLY remove them at any time without having to beg corrupt corporate congressmembers to impeach themselves.

If you can't fire people when they hurt your interests, they are NOT your representatives. If you can't hold them accountable they are NOT your public servants. Quit kidding yourself and quit delegating your power to people you cannot hold accountable.

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He is right
Posted by: rankfive on May 2, 2009 1:07 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again, and as usual, I must agree with Mr Moore. Pretty much anyone above the title of Branch Manager is a crook now days.

RT
Privacy Center

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» RE: How Do You Know This, Guitarbill? Posted by: dragonlady620
The FED, the FED, the FED
Posted by: ATH on May 2, 2009 1:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I still don't think people understand how our monetary or banking system works. The whole system is a fraud!
So, I found an interesting site with documentation that explains how money works, and also contains a House Banking Committee's investigation into the Federal Reserve System.

So, here's a link to a site where people can go and learn about money.Link:
http://www.uhuh.com/unreal/docs.htm#VetoPower

The ultimate goal of these bankers is World Government: which David Rockefeller clearly defined, in a public speech wherein he thanked the "N.Y. Times, TIME magazine, and other fine publications, whose directors have attended our meetings and kept their promises of discretion for nearly 40 years.It would have been impossible for us to develope our plans for the world had we been subjected to the bright lights of publicity..." He finishes: "But now the world is a more sophisticated place, and prepared to march towards World Government. A supra-national sovereignty of intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination praticed in past centuries."-David Rockefeller, Council on Foreign Relations, June 1991.

Amazing, isn't it, that a man could basically speak about destroying the sovereignty of nations and their free will, and was probably given a standing ovation for doing so!? But this is the goal of these banksters, obviously.They can't destroy the U.S. from without, but all the FED has to do, in order to steal the very wealth of this nation from us (including our gold in Ft. Knox., although I doubt it's there anymore: Last time we looked was in the early 50's!)and destroy the value of our dollar, is to just keep "loaning" huge sums of newly created money to its own "member banks." As long as these member banks spend that money quickly, they are stealing the soon to be devalued wealth of the dollar.

Bank of America, if I'm not mistaken, was the name of the private central bank that preceeded the Federal Reserve (they always give them titles that make them sound like they're a government institution in serice of the people),the one Andrew Jackson shut down in 1835, and then paid off the entire national debt, the first and last president to ever do this. He wrote: "The bold efforts the present bank has made to control the government...are but premonitions of the fate that awaits the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution, or the establishment of another like it." Of course, we were deluded into creating another like it: The Federal Reserve.

Now, with the FED system pervasive, it would be impossible. If we paid all our debts, there would be no money left in circulation, because it's all created from debt, which arises from interest. Interest, especially high interest, used to be called "Usury," and was illegal for many, many years. There has been a constant battle that's been waged throughout history to keep "the money changers" from gaining control of money creation. Remember when Jesus drives the money changers from the Temple? That was the only time he was really angry or used violence in his ministry, such did he despise these parasites. See, money is supposed to be available to everyone to borrow, at low interest, and money is supposed to be created, circulated, and issued by the government, and only gold and silver are supposed to be used as currency. Paper has no real value, obviously; paper money used to just be a receipt for the gold one desposited in the bank, and one could take the paper receipt and get one's gold. Now, they've tricked a lot of people into believing this green paper has actual value, outside of what we give it. And if the FED creates enough money to destroy the value of the dollar, they will be in for the shock of their lives. I'm just trying to help spread awareness. Go to the site, and others. Learn, and pass on what you learn.

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» correction by poster Posted by: ATH
Anthony D'Auria
Posted by: Tony D on May 2, 2009 1:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More power to you Michael Moore!

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BA
Posted by: mnstra on May 2, 2009 3:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read that in Mubai there was an attempt on the life of a rich Indian industrialist by putting sand and rocks into his helicopter engine. he could have gone down and taken others s with him.
What amazes me about the story is that we now have an attack on a member of the ruling elite.Not the usual murder and mayhem committed on average citizens for a change.In most of the world the violence that should be directed at the international bankers and rulers ,is directed at fellow citizens and the innocent --Like the terrorist attacks earlier this year in India.Were any of the global elite gunned down then?
Maybe this is the beginning of a global paradigm shift. I don't know.

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Privatized Public Service Is An Oxymoron
Posted by: booboo on May 2, 2009 3:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Why?"

"Greed."

"What should there be instead?"

"Public ownership of banking & finance."

"And then what sort of economy?"

"Of for and by the people."

"Anything else?"

"Yes we can."

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Mr. Moore: If You Want to Discover Something Truly Frightening and Astonishing
Posted by: ATH on May 2, 2009 4:47 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then read up on Chapter 11 of NAFTA. There are laws in there whereby multinational corporation can sue the United States (and without its permission, which no one else can do because it's considered a "surrender of sovereignty;" but what's really shocking about this is that these matters are not settled in a courtroom, but a private office, by private international arbiters and--this is the big part of the surprise--if their decision, in the settlement of the lawsuit, warrants it, their decisions can override/overturn Supreme Court rulings.

Anyone even vaguely familiar with constitutional law should immediately understand the implications of this. I'm not positive about this, but I think I may have discovered this from watching a 'Bill Moyer's Journal' episode, but I can't say for sure. I just remember that it came from what I considered to be a credible source. But someone with investigative skills, like you, Michael Moore, could discover more. I've been investigating the Federal Reserve, and some of the inner circles these bankers run in, like the Council on Foreign Relations. Such as David Rockefeller's speech as current Head of the CFR back in June 1991, where he thanks the directors of the "NY Times, TIME magazine, The Washington Post, and other fine publications, whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for nearly 40 years." He goes on to point out "it would have been impossible" for them to have created "their plans for the world had they been exposed to the lights of publicity during those crucial years." He then goes on to say, "But the world is now a more sophisticated place, and prepared to march towards world government. A supra-national sovereignty of intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."

So, it's no conspiracy theory--or even a conspiracy at all, anymore, but a fact that there's a powerful faction of bankers, like Rockefeller, whose father helped create the Federal Reserve Act back in 1913, who wish to destroy our national sovereignty in order to establish a world government. They can't attack us without, but another of the quotes from the journals of the CFR is "an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will prove to be more effective than the traditional frontal assault."

This is something people need to know. This could be a revolutionary movie. Others have been made, but none by you, Mike, to whom people listen and gravitate towards (perhaps because you're warping the fabric of space-time:) Just kidding. I'm overweight, too. I know you got a sense of humor! And this truly would be a revolutionary movie:
As Henry Ford (Henry, not Gerald)once said:
"It is well enough that the people of this nation do not understand its banking and monetary system, for if it did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

You could come at this from a number of angles, or expose the big picture, if you can.
By the way, what did you think of the nice photo-op in NY the other day, and their decision to keep the citizens in the dark?
Or how about this "Swine Flu?" Remember the deal back in '76 when they made a big stink about it, and the vaccine for the Swine Flu actually killed about 25 people, far more than the actual Swine flu, if it killed anyone at all. I think it's very suspicious that the only drug that works against this is Tamiflu, whose side-effect are exactly the same as the Flu itself, and is probably more dangerous. Let's hope they don't start making everyone cough up a hundred dollars for every mandatory shot of something that may do harm to both body and wallet, and possibly for no good reason! The regular Flu kills about 26,000 people a year. We're seeing an incredible over-reaction.

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BulldogRedemer
Posted by: BulldogRedeemer on May 2, 2009 4:59 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Moore should add Barney Frank and Chris Dodd to his list as they were as responsible as anyone for the Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac scandals that were at the base of the current financial crisis. Giving essentially free loans to people who couldn't afford them (sub-prime) so that everyone can have home ownership is an example of socialism at work. Sure, sure, they were forced into them. If you don't have a down payment, don't have a job, are allowed to lie on your loan application as to your net worth, know your payments will dramatically increase in a few years, etc, you are responsible for your own down fall. And anyone so dumb shouldn't be allowed to vote. I thought that Michael Moore has been so discredited by the exposed lies in his previous works that no one would ever pay any attention to him again. I guess some people never learn.

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» RE: BulldogRedemer Posted by: kahoma
OBAMA IS NO FDR
Posted by: cori on May 2, 2009 6:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From Bill Moyers

Finally, here we are at the end of this week of a hundred days. As everyone in the Western world probably knows by now, this benchmark for assessing presidencies goes back to Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who arrived at the White House in the depths of the Great Depression.

In his first hundred days, FDR came out swinging. He shut down the banks, threw the money lenders from the temple, cranked out so much legislation so fast he would shout to his secretary, Grace Tully, "Grace, take a law!" Will Rogers said Congress didn't pass bills anymore; it just waved as they went by.

President Obama's been busy, but contrary to many of the pundits, he's no FDR. Our new president got his political education in the world of Chicago ward politics, and seems to have adopted a strategy from the machine of that city's longtime boss, the late Richard J. Daley, father of the current mayor there. "Don't make no waves," one of Daley's henchmen advised, "don't back no losers."

Your opinion of Obama's first 100 days depends, of course, on your own vantage point. But we'd argue that as part of his bending over backwards to support the banks and avoid the losers, he has blundered mightily in his choice of economic advisers.

Last week, at a hearing of the Congressional Oversight Panel (COP) monitoring the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner tried to correct AFL-CIO General Counsel Damon Silvers. "I've practiced law and you've been a banker," Silvers said. Never, Geithner replied, "I've only been in public service."

We beg to differ. Read Jo Becker and Gretchen Morgenson's front-page profile of Secretary Geithner in Monday's New York Times, and you'll see how Robert Rubin protege Geithner, during the five years he was running the New York Federal Reserve, fell under the spell of the big barons of banking to whom he would one day help shovel overly generous sums of money at taxpayer expense.

During "an era of unbridled and ultimately disastrous risk-taking by the financial industry," the Times reported, "... He forged unusually close relationships with executives of Wall Street's giant financial institutions.

"His actions, as a regulator and later a bailout king, often aligned with the industry's interests and desires, according to interviews with financiers, regulators and analysts and a review of Federal Reserve records."


According to Becker and Morgenson, "Even as banks complain that the government has attached too many intrusive strings to its financial assistance, a range of critics - lawmakers, economists and even former Federal Reserve colleagues - say that the bailout Mr. Geithner has played such a central role in fashioning is overly generous to the financial industry at taxpayer expense."

The two reporters write that Geithner "repeatedly missed or overlooked signs" that the financial system was self-destructing. "When he did spot trouble, analysts say, his responses were too measured, or too late."

In choosing a man to manage the bailout of the banks who's so cozy with its players, and then installing as his White House economic adviser Larry Summers, who in the Clinton administration took a laissez-faire attitude toward the financial industry which would later enrich him, the president bought into the old fantasy that what's best for Wall Street is best for America.

With these two as his financial gatekeepers, President Obama's now in the position of Louis XVI being advised by Marie Antoinette to have another piece of cake until that rumble in the streets has passed on by.

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WALL STREET OWNS CONGRESS AND OBAMA PAYING THEM OFF WITH OUR TAX $
Posted by: cori on May 2, 2009 6:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From Bill Moyers

President Obama's been busy, but contrary to many of the pundits, he's no FDR. Our new president got his political education in the world of Chicago ward politics, and seems to have adopted a strategy from the machine of that city's longtime boss, the late Richard J. Daley, father of the current mayor there. "Don't make no waves," one of Daley's henchmen advised, "don't back no losers."

In fact, other Wall Street insiders - many of them big contributors to the Obama presidential campaign, and progressive in their concern for the public interest - privately are expressing serious concerns that Geithner, Summers and their associates are leading the president and America's taxpayers down a path toward further economic disaster.

This week, as Senate Majority Whip Richard Durbin of Illinois unsuccessfully fought for a congressional amendment he said would have helped 1.7 million Americans save their homes from foreclosure, the senator told a radio station back home that, "The banks - hard to believe in a time when we're facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created - are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place."

He could say the same of the White House.

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Obama's no FDR??
Posted by: gellero1 on May 2, 2009 7:27 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Moyers is just another mouthpiece who doesn't know history.

FDR's policies led to the recession of 1937.

Between August & December 1937 industrial production declined 27% and stock market averages 37%. The last 2 months of 1937 saw 850,000 factory workers loose their jobs. ( source 'Back door to War' Prof C. Tansill, Georgetown University p343 )

The history you are fed is full of lies and distortions.

Pres. Obama is at the mercy of the gang at the Fed. No different than Pres. Bush. Same Bankers, same fiat money, same policies.

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» RE: Obama's no FDR?? Posted by: richholland
Some doubts about MM and what he said.
Posted by: John More on May 3, 2009 5:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, Madoff or some sleazy tycoon, the crimes are all the same. Ripping off the little guys. It's only a matter of how directly the crime is being done that's the difference.

And while MM may make excellent points and write great books, for all the money he has amassed, why isn't he putting towards helping out the small and underfunded progressive caucuses and organizations? At least Ralph Nader takes the money and does that much. And since Moore lives in CA, he and the rest of the celebrities could put their money towards closing the deficit gap rather than the the governor raising taxes like mad. Glad I live in Texas.

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