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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

Krugman: The Market Wizards Were Exposed as Frauds -- Too Bad Obama's Team Still Believes in Their Magic

By Paul Krugman, The New York Times. Posted March 27, 2009.


The Obama administration thinks a little regulatory tinkering will take Wall Street back to its glory days of fraudulent finance.
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On Monday, Lawrence Summers, the head of the National Economic Council, responded to criticisms of the Obama administration’s plan to subsidize private purchases of toxic assets. “I don’t know of any economist,” he declared, “who doesn’t believe that better functioning capital markets in which assets can be traded are a good idea.”

Leave aside for a moment the question of whether a market in which buyers have to be bribed to participate can really be described as “better functioning.” Even so, Mr. Summers needs to get out more. Quite a few economists have reconsidered their favorable opinion of capital markets and asset trading in the light of the current crisis.

But it has become increasingly clear over the past few days that top officials in the Obama administration are still in the grip of the market mystique. They still believe in the magic of the financial marketplace and in the prowess of the wizards who perform that magic.

The market mystique didn’t always rule financial policy. America emerged from the Great Depression with a tightly regulated banking system, which made finance a staid, even boring business. Banks attracted depositors by providing convenient branch locations and maybe a free toaster or two; they used the money thus attracted to make loans, and that was that.

And the financial system wasn’t just boring. It was also, by today’s standards, small. Even during the “go-go years,” the bull market of the 1960s, finance and insurance together accounted for less than 4 percent of G.D.P. The relative unimportance of finance was reflected in the list of stocks making up the Dow Jones Industrial Average, which until 1982 contained not a single financial company.

It all sounds primitive by today’s standards. Yet that boring, primitive financial system serviced an economy that doubled living standards over the course of a generation.

After 1980, of course, a very different financial system emerged. In the deregulation-minded Reagan era, old-fashioned banking was increasingly replaced by wheeling and dealing on a grand scale. The new system was much bigger than the old regime: On the eve of the current crisis, finance and insurance accounted for 8 percent of G.D.P., more than twice their share in the 1960s. By early last year, the Dow contained five financial companies — giants like A.I.G., Citigroup and Bank of America.

And finance became anything but boring. It attracted many of our sharpest minds and made a select few immensely rich.

Underlying the glamorous new world of finance was the process of securitization. Loans no longer stayed with the lender. Instead, they were sold on to others, who sliced, diced and puréed individual debts to synthesize new assets. Subprime mortgages, credit card debts, car loans — all went into the financial system’s juicer. Out the other end, supposedly, came sweet-tasting AAA investments. And financial wizards were lavishly rewarded for overseeing the process.

But the wizards were frauds, whether they knew it or not, and their magic turned out to be no more than a collection of cheap stage tricks. Above all, the key promise of securitization — that it would make the financial system more robust by spreading risk more widely — turned out to be a lie. Banks used securitization to increase their risk, not reduce it, and in the process they made the economy more, not less, vulnerable to financial disruption.

Sooner or later, things were bound to go wrong, and eventually they did. Bear Stearns failed; Lehman failed; but most of all, securitization failed.

Which brings us back to the Obama administration’s approach to the financial crisis.

Much discussion of the toxic-asset plan has focused on the details and the arithmetic, and rightly so. Beyond that, however, what’s striking is the vision expressed both in the content of the financial plan and in statements by administration officials. In essence, the administration seems to believe that once investors calm down, securitization — and the business of finance — can resume where it left off a year or two ago.

To be fair, officials are calling for more regulation. Indeed, on Thursday Tim Geithner, the Treasury secretary, laid out plans for enhanced regulation that would have been considered radical not long ago.

But the underlying vision remains that of a financial system more or less the same as it was two years ago, albeit somewhat tamed by new rules.

As you can guess, I don’t share that vision. I don’t think this is just a financial panic; I believe that it represents the failure of a whole model of banking, of an overgrown financial sector that did more harm than good. I don’t think the Obama administration can bring securitization back to life, and I don’t believe it should try.


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Krugman should be advising the President
Posted by: olita on Mar 27, 2009 12:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go Paul GO! Tell it, keep telling it until the Administration starts listening.

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definitely.
Posted by: Tweck9 on Mar 27, 2009 12:15 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree, Mr. Krugman. Why bring the Devil back to life? Unless we are just masochists.

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But Krugman supported Obama despite Obama's strong support of bailing out Wall Street.
Posted by: LaughingModerateIndependent on Mar 27, 2009 12:17 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've lost faith in Krugman for his inconsistencies all too often. Sorry Paul, but you're too richie rich to be bothered. Where's a not-so-monied working class liberal to write these articles when you need one?

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» Believe! Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» RE: what other choice do you have? Posted by: MeyravLevine
it will be sad
Posted by: trainedape on Mar 27, 2009 1:27 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if Obama's presidency fails because he doesn't understand the big picture on economics. He's a smart guy. Please Paul, convince him. The world needs you. This is your moment.

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Chomsky lecture on "Free Market Fantasies"
Posted by: Defenestrator on Mar 27, 2009 1:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Free Market Fantasies

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» RE: Chomsky a world calls moron, unfortunatley a very influential one Posted by: Illuminatus- Enlightend Classic Liberal
» Socialsts agree. Posted by: RR#1
The Big Screw-Up
Posted by: Perry Logan on Mar 27, 2009 2:11 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is beginning to look like The Big Screw-Up we all feared. I fervently pray I'm wrong.

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Yep ... And why we need Credit as a Public Ultility ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Mar 27, 2009 2:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Credit needs to be used as a tool for commerce, not commerce being used a s a tool for credit.

But Krugman doesn't go far enough. These Banksters were actually creating assets out of thin air, not just money. They were essentially using the credit they created to claim as assets and printing more money!

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Just wondering.
Posted by: Bliss Doubt on Mar 27, 2009 3:37 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In his TV appearance this week, why did Obama have to say "I am among that wealthiest one percent of Americans"?

Is he really? I thought that was people like Gates and I don't even know who else.

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» RE: Just wondering. Posted by: redbridge
I'm with you......
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Mar 27, 2009 3:59 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I do appreciate you, for what you've been telling us all along, I wonder - can the President replace a few of the yes men that he's got working against us (I mean for him) now, with you and a few others? I'm no economist nor am I a mathematician - but when you keep adding 2+2=5 and you refuse to recognize that it's wrong, something really, really is wrong!

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Don't worry... this guy has got it all covered.
Posted by: xbj on Mar 27, 2009 4:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Genius.

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the FASCIST FOLLIES
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Mar 27, 2009 6:30 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"But it has become increasingly clear over the past few days that top officials in the Obama administration are still in the grip of the market mystique. They still believe in the magic of the financial marketplace and in the prowess of the wizards who perform that magic."

People like Obama "advisers" George Soros and Robert Rubin crony crew that includes Larry Summers and ex-NY "FED" Tim Geithner are hardly in "the grip of the market mystique". The free "market" DOES NOT EXIST any more than democracy. It is a Fascist sham. These low-lifes are Wall Street charlatan sharks that helped produce the meltdown to begin with. Now they are shoveling out taxpayer money hand over fist to their criminal cronies to start the rigged game up all over again. $13 TRILLION dollars worth, so far.

Isn't it interesting that Tim Geithner and Paul Krugman are both members of the shady Rockefeller created G30 and the Council on Foreign Relations? Geithner is also a "chairman" of the Bank for International Settlements out of Basel Switzerland (the private bankers bank that rigs global exchange and monetary policy).

Obama the charismatic, glib runway model is just along for the ride. Who better to lead the ransacking of the nation than a person of color? The perfect Trojan Horse and shield for the ruling class parasite club.

Of course $13 TRILLION won't go very far when the total derivatives debt under the meltdown is well over $700 TRILLION that is the toxic evidence of Wall Street casino profits taken over a decade (more than ten times the value of all assets and all GDP on the planet). All of it encouraged, aided and abetted by the private Ponzi trap "Federal Reserve" Corp (not federal, no reserves) owned and operated by the private Wall Street banking industry that created the ultra-toxic meltdown we are all now being asked to pay for.

"Too Big to Fail" vs too-little-to-save. That's another way to say Fascism under oligarchy. Mussolini coined it as the merger of state under corporate power (Doctrine of Fascism 1935).

Would you like to guess who comes out on top?

People like Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul and Cynthia McKinney have busted this Organized Corporate Crime Fascist state for years - not just days. But the corporate Washington-MSM circus was clearly ordered not to cover them for the campaign. The American people bought the "hope and change" show hook line and sinker. Now we are all about to pay for their folly. Bigtime.


"In 1913, the money power of the country was taken away from the people. By constitutional privilege it belongs with the Congress, but it was given up in the Federal Reserve Act. The Federal Reserve is no more Federal than Federal Express. But yet it has the power to determine the direction and use of money in our economy. If we could take that power back and put the Federal Reserve under Treasury, we start to be in a position of being able to control monetary policy on behalf of the United States people."
Congressman Dennis Kucinich (former Presidential candidate at Congress C-Span January 9th, 2009)

“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
President FDR (on de facto Fascist rule in a letter to corporate monopoly charlatan “Colonel” Edward M. House, co-founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson. 11/21/ l933 from the book "F.D.R.: His Personal Letters" - New York: Duell, Sloan and Pearce 1950)

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» gitarBill breaks a string Posted by: weathered
» I'm not in denial Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: the FASCIST FOLLIES Posted by: Alex Hidell
Highest-Earning Hedge Fund Managers
Posted by: RR#1 on Mar 27, 2009 8:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rank Name Firm Name 2008 Earnings
1 James Simons Renaissance Technologies Corp. $2.5 billion
2 John Paulson Paulson & Co. $2 billion
3 John Arnold Centaurus Energy $1.5 billion
4 George Soros Soros Fund Management $1.1 billion
5 Raymond Dalio Bridgewater Associates $780 million
6 Bruce Kovner Caxton Associates $640 million
7 David Shaw D.E. Shaw & Co. $275 million
8 Stanley Druckenmiller Duquesne Capital Management $260 million
9 (tie) David Harding Winton Capital Management $250 million
9 (tie) Alan Howard Brevan Howard Asset Management $250 million
9 (tie) John Taylor Jr. FX Concepts $250 million
NYTimes Mar 26, 2009
John R. Taylor, the third hedge fund manager who tied as ninth on the list, said even winning hedge funds should acknowledge that they had benefited from the government’s bailout of the banking system. “Thank God for the government, because if they hadn’t intervened, we wouldn’t have had anybody to trade with,” said Mr. Taylor, who has run his currency fund, FX Concepts, since the 1980s.
http://iimagazine.com/Alpha/Article.aspx?ArticleID=2165638

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Krugman stopped Bush's bid to privatize Social Security
Posted by: PaulC on Mar 27, 2009 8:49 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
can he now stop Obama's bid to bring the Financial Frankenstein back to life?

I doubt it, because the Financial Frankenstein has replaced manufacturing as the bread-and-butter of our economy.

However, Obama is working to build a whole new industrial base around the green energy revolution.

Maybe that is the best we can hope for since so much structural damage to our economic engine has already been done.

peace,
Paul

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dipconsult
Posted by: dipconsult on Mar 28, 2009 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Krugman and many other top economists are of course right - the taxpayer assisted purchasing of "toxic assets" is a "zombie idea" and likely to prove disastrous.

The solution is surely public purchase of sufficient bank shares to achieve control. Sack top bankers as required and exercise control over lending. Sort out the "toxic assets" and then assign them a state determined "notional value" for balance sheet purposes.

And get on with
1. helping those with mortgages: spot the reckless borrowers, use judicial means to modify other existing mortgages. The housing market will then bottom out greatly helping ordinary people's financial confidence.

2. ensuring that this financial crisis proves indeed the oportunity it is to ensure no return to the old ways (financial predominance presiding over the Age of Waste - undirected laissez-faire capitalism). And to usher in a new era of directed capitalism to achieve a) environmental aims - vast investment required b) connected social aims - education, training, health reform, imfrastructure renewal (also requiring vast investment).

Then you get early job creation, personal financial confidence - and at the same time a new era split away from the financiers greed, and the era of waste which now threatens the survival of humanity.

Ideologies are destructive - none more so than the blind ideology of laissez-faire capitalism and market self-correction. These Reagan Thatcher ideologies - shared by anti-Keynsian economists - must be extirpated like fascism, communism, and religious fanaticism.

Let's make use of capitalism's extraordinary ability to achieve what society wants - give it the incentive (tax and other) and it'll help get you to the moon, help win world war II - or help save humanity!

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» RE: dipconsult Posted by: ellie
PAUL, if you're out there...PLEASE
Posted by: bthespoon on Mar 28, 2009 5:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need you and some other big names to go on the Oprah Winfrey show (for a start) and help explain to the American people about the economics of health care, including single payer.

"Health care IS the economy, Stupid!"

I suggest you and/or Joeseph Stieglitz, Al Gore, Dr. Quentin Young, Dr. Marcia Angell, etc. Later Al could produce a follow-up movie to "Inconvenient Truth" called "Cruelest Lie" about health care unsurance to follow "SICKO" but with a different train of thought and personality. Then maybe more highly respected, famous and/or Hollywood figures would start helping all us "little guys" combat extremely powerful moneyed forces, and we could have some health care justice around here for a real change.

Help us end the discrimination against sick people in America. (I can help.)

Health care (non) reform is the biggest lie perpetrated on the American public today, and it's costing us all (now, but could be saving instead) the most wasted lives and dollars of any national problem (more than energy, environment and the war on terror combined).

Thank you.

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You Plan is as Lacking as the Budget the Repugs have unveiled
Posted by: Purple Girl on Mar 28, 2009 6:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come on Paul- I could have wrote that damn article!
If your are going to play armchair QB at least give some alternative plays.
Where is your step by step concrete stratedgy? Where are your 'New ideas'. I could have come up with the 'nose on your face' concept of reinstituting the safeguards that were put in place after the last time Wall street fucked this country.DUH.
Americans are not only bored but sick of hearing the 'this ain't gonna Work'shit and yet no real alternatives are being volleyed up.Wow Me with your Pulitizer Intellect.
No Doubt Summers has proven he is only 'helping' as a means to bury his own cat shit in the litter box- not doing a damn thing to change 'business as Usual'. Hell I don't just want him to get his walking papers, I want him to get an arrest warrant handed to him.So I'm with ya on Summers.
But I don't believe Geitner can wave a magic wand and undue 30 yrs of Economic Treason without some finesse- thus some concessions to assure the whole thing doesn't implode.I see this clusterfuck as something that must be stratedgically walked back out of.So some shit is going to suck.But hell I've been watching the Process of 'Trickle Down' ideology screw US for alomst 3 decades- watching as none of you Economic gurus bothered to Scream Stop- as schools like The Chicago School of Economics manufactured more 'Dog eat Dog' graduates.Why weren't you einstiens out yelling 'The British are coming' through the town square when Greenspan infested our Free market with Feudalism via Reaganomics? Why weren't you on your mounted horses Hollering from on High before Clinton signed the Modernization Act? Now when the Shit has finally hit the fan ( a well foreseen Result) You all come crawling out from under your rocks?Day late Dollar (trillions) Short. Apparently the Economic schools don't bother with history books or even dictionaries.
Son of a Bitch Paul- Give US something to work with here. This article is as enlightening as the Repugs Budget proposal. Were you out having a liquid lunch with Boenher before you wrote this empty article? It's not what we should do,we all understand the concept of returning back to a regulated financial sector - It's HOW we should do it.Don't be a Repug and come whining to US that you are not being included in the decisions when all you are offering up is the obvious.It's about as useless tojust Cry 'Regulations' as it is illogical to cry Tax breaks and Deficit reduction at this point. Regulations accepted, Tax cuts and deficit reduction Rejected- Next idea.
Heres my idea- We prosecute every SOB who had a hand in this economic treason, You lop the head off Greenspan alone for this Treason and watch how fast the Financial district remembers what Ethics means.
Then Remove all Essential commodities from the Casino tote board- Food, Education, healthcare, defense, financials- Leave them to gamble on Revelon outselling Max Factor, or Jim Beam kicking the Shit our of jack Daniels. Let them gamble on the sidelines with products that have no effect on the citizens or the country's (global markets) Well being. In fact if we don't like the way they are playing together- take all thier toys away and shut the damn thing down. Commerce and Trade did not come into being just because a Wall street was created- they are nothing more than side betters and skimmers. Worse yet they have been manipulating this ancient human exchange of goods/service for pay, through pure speculation- Driving prices up or down at will.They are controlling the Very Free market our Founders Deemed to be Free of such influences.
so either give US a step by step plan to fix this catastrophe- or at least think bigger, look at the entire picture as to how we can recapture our Free market for the citizens it was meant to serve- not the brick & mortar corps.

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All Women Are Needed.
Posted by: melpol on Mar 28, 2009 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Decriminalizing prostitution is the best way to spread the wealth and get retail businesses booming. The cheapest guy will open his wallet at the sight of a beautiful woman. Most hookers are shopaholics and will quickly spend her earnings. Billions will flow into the economy. Unemployed women will become productive and useful. All women no matter how homely will be able to make a buck.

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» Offensive pig. Posted by: zipoka
Crushing small business's......bank terrorism
Posted by: wallisp on Mar 28, 2009 8:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its so sad that Geithner and others can't address the methods the banks are using, against the American public and small business's today, until 2012. Increasing interest rates, manipulating credit scores, unfair fees, short billing cycles, and now, fees for online payments. The American citizens and small business, should not be bailing out these toxic bank executives and their policies. I seems like an all out war against the consumer! Why aren't companies, rallying against these financial monsters? Why are companies, to protect their customers, who shop with them, not in the news, rallying against this financial terrrorism? Come on business organizations, organize, protest, and protect your business. If the banks cripple enough people, who the hell is going to shop with you........no one. Cripple the credit card banks before they cripple your business any further. Tell the credit card companies, back off, or cancel their card services. Citizens in tent cities won't buy your products.

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They "Overleveraged" the head right off the Goose who lays the Golden Eggs
Posted by: knowbuddhaU on Mar 28, 2009 8:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IOW, on the advice chief cultists like Greenspan, Summers, Paulson, Volcker, Rubin, et al, our lords of finance "overleveraged" the head right off the goose who lays the golden eggs. And now they want us to think they can somehow make that dead bird fly.

When the same damn NSA-type economic hit men keep turning up in the same boardrooms where the policies of disaster capitalism are decided, I suggest we see that as the pattern, not an aberration.

How many freakin' disasters in a row does it take to make the disasters the policy?

Hightower's Most Wanted
JIM HIGHTOWER: But repealing Glass-Steagall was only step one for this free-market holy roller. In literally the dead of night, just before Congress's Christmas break in 2000, Chairman Gramm snuck a short provision into an 11,000-page appropriations bill. The item, which only a few lobbyists and lawmakers knew had been inserted, became law when the larger bill was signed by then-President Bill Clinton. Gramm's little legislative sticky note decreed that a relatively new, exotic, and inherently risky form of investments called "derivatives" were not to be regulated--or even monitored--by the government.

It should be noted here that Democrats were also butt-deep in the dereg orthodoxy. Such Wall Street sycophants as Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) had drunk deeply from the holy cup of derivatives deregulation, and Clinton's top economic advisors Robert Rubin (formerly with Goldman Sachs and now with Citigroup) and Lawrence Summers (also a veteran of Wall Street) were in harness with the Republicans on this effort.

[...]

However, not everyone was sanguine about the chairman's [Alan Greenspan's] reliance on derivatives as the pillar of Wall Street's financial strength. Many wise heads viewed these financial "products" as speculative mumbo-jumbo. Billionaire financier George Soros says his firm never invested in them "because we don't really understand how they work." Investment banker Felix Rohatyn described them as "hydrogen bombs." Back in 2003, investment guru Warren Buffett called them "financial weapons of mass destruction" that were "potentially lethal" for our economy.

[...]

Why was Greenspan so insistent on no regulation? Because he is the hardest of hardcore laissez-faire ideologues, holding a blazing disdain for government. An avowed worshiper of libertarian novelist Ayn Rand, he views public oversight of business as an evil force that deters the creativity of smart elites. He is so psyched by his religious-like faith in the "free market" that he fervently believes in what he considers to be the innate good will and moral superiority of investors and bankers. He asserts that these self-interested individuals can simply be trusted to do the right thing, and that government should not second-guess their decisions.

Even the faith of snake handlers is not as devout as Greenspan's. Unfortunately, however, he was able to hitch our nation's economic well-being to his own absurdist ideological fancy. The guy who was lionized as the smartest, most- stable economic thinker in the land essentially turns out to have been a quasi-religious nut.

more

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Krugman - right or wrong?
Posted by: PaulD on Mar 28, 2009 10:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems like a little internet research ought to make it clear whether Krugman is on target or not.

Start with the question, are nations with heavily regulated economies more prosperous, or nations where the "market mystique" prevails?

I don't know the answer offhand, but it seems like it ought to be easy to dig up the facts on the internet. (Or in the history books - the case of East Germany vs. West Germany comes to mind.)

It also seems like the results would end up being a very convincing, even conclusive argument for one side or the other.

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» great experiment dude! Posted by: GatoPreto
Slave or non slave
Posted by: wint on Mar 28, 2009 10:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It may come as a surprise that we are actually slaves to this economy and the people who direct the financial institutions that run the country. Now if Mr. Obama is true to his middle class roots he will destroy this multiheaded monster or not. Most of us hope he will and by using the same criminal element that got us into this mess as his advisors maybe just maybe he is letting them do the turn coat dirty work as they probably know too well. The Chicago School of "It's all mine" so just roll over and go to work for me at your wages that are about 1970's buying power and shut the hell up. You are so fortunate to be living in a country that steals your good name, torture, your children, Iraq ad infinitum, your air, toxic fumes, your water, did you just see what floated by???, your money, gee those guys need those extra two or three houses, or your job which was shipped lock stock and barrel to Somewhere Else...I hope he lives up to his billing. We need some help from Washington and we are not getting it from the Bobble Heads in Congress.

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From the Cheap Seats
Posted by: JohnJlws on Mar 28, 2009 11:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Krugman, how's the view from the cheap seats? I'm not trying to be mean, and you're a lot more educated in this stuff than me, but I'm wondering why one expert is better than another and if we shouldn't listen to any of the guys that brung us here what makes another expert opinion better?

Because we have or haven't tried it before? Well, that seems to be one of the arguments for staying the course and dumping even more money into this sewer.

Here's something that hasn't ever been tried: a free market system. Why don't we let the market adjust and use the bail out money to support the Americans who will get crushed in the resulting economic chaos? I'm far from an expert, don't think I have any idea of how to fix this junk, but I'm wondering what makes anyone's opinion better than another? What makes you better than someone advising Obama? What makes you better than Kramer?

If it's because you study this stuff, you're educated, you talk to a bunch of folks then why are you better than what we've had?

Seems to me sitting around and criticizing everything and saying "no" to everything is easy and/or republican. Seems to me we've listened to the experts for long enough. Let's get some fresh ideas. Maybe Joe the Plumber/Idiot, or someone who has even less of a foggiest idea of what should be done has an idea. Why not? What's the downside? The economy might tank?

How about instead of criticizing, pointing fingers and saying "no" people start working on stuff (like maybe an education in a discipline that actually has jobs available--healthcare, technology, new energy, even old energy, engineering--those all seem to have some growth capacity), anything, to dig out and quit looking to the magic President to pull us out of this?

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I don't normally
Posted by: willymack on Mar 28, 2009 11:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Play the "yes, but" game, but here's an exception. Paul Krugman has pointed out the weaknesses of our financial, market, and banking systems with the scholarly thoroughness that earned him a Nobel Prize. What he really doesn't do is propose an alternative to these crooked and failed institutions. It seems clear to me that something new and more humane and fair to everyone should replace the predatory mess we're enduring now. Something which doesn't allow cannibals to eat us alive, and enables us to employ our energies and ideas to best effect. Where's that new philosophy? What's the plan? It's certainly overdue, don't you think?

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Zeitgeist Addendum
Posted by: rigpa44 on Mar 28, 2009 12:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch this movie and then comment on the economy. So far what we have is "fragments analyzing and op-ed'ing on fragments". Here's the link. Prepare to have your mind blown. Literally. The truth torches the false. This is the spark that lights the bonfire.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

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Zeitgeist Addendum
Posted by: rigpa44 on Mar 28, 2009 12:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch this movie and then comment on the economy. So far what we have is "fragments analyzing and op-ed'ing on fragments". Here's the link. Prepare to have your mind blown. Literally. The truth torches the false. This is the spark that lights the bonfire.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

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The derivative amounts are too huge: Write them off !
Posted by: Alex Hidell on Mar 28, 2009 10:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A large part of the problem is no one has a handle on the extent of the "toxic assets" and that is partly President Obama's fault and partly Sec. Geithner's fault and partly the MEDIA'S fault. A little noticed article, Steve Pizzo's Follow The Numbers shows us that speculative derivatives numbers are overwhelming the world's banking system

""Here's the breakdown, according to the International Bank of Settlements, which acts as banker for the world's central banks:

1) Listed credit derivatives stood at USD 548 trillion;
2. The Over-The-Counter (OTC) derivatives stood in notional or face value at USD 596 trillion"


World derivative debt is $1.14 Quadrillion USD. For the US banks share of that see Table 1, page 22 of 33 at

http://www.occ.treas.gov/ftp/release/2008-152a.pdf

The jig is up folks. The US banks are essentially bankrupt, with $10.5 trillion in assets vs. $176 trillion in derivative debts.

At the April 2nd G20 meeting world leaders should WRITE OFF this toxic speculative derivative 'debt'.

Put in further perspective, the entire world's GDP, according to the CIA's world book, is $71 trillion USD annually. Compare that with that $1.14 quadillion and you now understand that a huge transfer of wealth is taking place, crowding out legitimate recovery efforts.

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Jon Stewart of the Daily Show exposed the Wall Street magicians as frauds...
Posted by: jimidee on Mar 29, 2009 8:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
not Paul Krugman, for which I predict that he will be awarded his 8th Peabody Award. Although I would like to ecourage Paul to keep trying for his first. Hang in there Paul! You can do it...try harder!

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The difference is pro vs. anti-regulation philosophy
Posted by: reg373 on Mar 29, 2009 4:04 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And look at these hundreds of billions now pouring in to everything. This economy will be turning around within months not years -- found a cool site; Balkingpoints ; global forum + incredible satellite view of earth

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wizards?
Posted by: om7buss on Mar 31, 2009 12:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they are wizards to make dissapear our hard earned money and appear into their pockets. they are having cruel fun with our misseries...www.henrybook.com

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An overwhelming lack of support!
Posted by: Pfodder on Mar 31, 2009 12:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Krugman seems to have divided his point in two without noticing it. If it truly was the intent of the financial industry to widen the foundations of securitization, which does not inherently sound like a bad idea, then where did that idea go wrong? Was the fault strictly limited to over leveraging? If so, is the idea proven dysfunctional, or simply overwhelmed by the snowballing effect of a desire to push the limits of something not yet understood?

Mr. Krugman seems to conclusively state the idea was wrong without widely accepted, or commonly argued, facts. There is a period of increased risk in every new assertion of enterprise. In the case which has led to the present crisis, which was wrongly asserted, he has given blame without reference to the coexisting exercise of all those who were willing to engage securities and mortgages, etc., without adequate analysis of that risk. It results in an over criticism of the necessary responsibility which has been given to President Obama and other world leaders, to heal the wounds of the crisis.

Moving on to a reengagement of the enterprise will occur as we successfully adapt our responsibilities toward the turning points of recovery. Where is Mr. Krugman's positive view and comment to support that end?

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When Will It End?!!
Posted by: Levon on Apr 1, 2009 10:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These workers! Demanding healthcare!
Paid sick leave!
Paid vacations! Paid Holidays!
Pensions! Childcare!

When will it end!?
When there is not one stick of furniture left in any of my mansions?

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the wall
Posted by: om7buss on Apr 2, 2009 4:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know now why Fidel wanted to nuke nyc...www.henrybook.com

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