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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

Wall Street Sharks Have Lost Everything, and Now They're Coming After Us

By Robert Kuttner, The Washington Post. Posted February 24, 2009.


Gutting Social Security and Medicare to pay for the sins of Wall Street is a perverse idea.
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With the enactment of a large economic stimulus package, fiscal conservatives are using the temporary deficit increase to attack a perennial target -- Social Security and Medicare. The private-equity investor Peter G. Peterson, who launched a billion-dollar foundation last year to warn that America faces $56.4 trillion in "unfunded liabilities," is a case in point. Supposedly, these costs will depress economic growth and crowd out other needed outlays, such as investments in the young. The remedy: big cuts in programs for the elderly.

The Peterson Foundation is joined by leading "blue dog" (anti-deficit) Democrats such as House Budget Committee Chairman John Spratt of South Carolina and his counterpart in the Senate, Kent Conrad of North Dakota. The deficit hawks are promoting a "grand bargain" in which a bipartisan commission enacts spending caps on social insurance as the offset for current deficits.

President Obama's economic advisers devised today's White House fiscal responsibility summit to signal that the president takes the deficit seriously and to lay the groundwork for such a bipartisan deal. Originally, Peterson was slated to be a featured speaker.

But Capitol Hill sources say that Democratic congressional leaders were skeptical of the strategy. The summit has been reduced to a lower-profile, half-day event; Peterson will attend but no longer has top billing, and Obama reportedly is lukewarm about the idea of a commission.

Obama should indeed be wary of such a plan, and official briefings on his first budget suggest that he will drastically reduce the deficit by 2013, but without going after social insurance.

What's wrong with the story of entitlements wrecking the economy? Plenty.

For starters, the $56 trillion "unfunded liability" figure relies on creative accounting. Only about $6.36 trillion is the actual public debt, according to the U.S. Treasury. Most of the number Peterson cites is a combination of the 75-year worst-case projections for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

These three programs face very different challenges and remedies. Social Security's accounts are actually near long-term balance. The Congressional Budget Office puts the 75-year shortfall at only about one-third of 1 percent of projected gross domestic product.

Social Security is financed by taxes on wages -- and since the mid-1970s, wage growth has stagnated. If median wages rose with productivity growth, as they did during the first three decades after World War II, Social Security would enjoy a big surplus. Even without a raise for working America, Social Security needs only minor adjustments.

Medicare really does face big deficits. But that's because Medicare is part of a hugely inefficient, fragmented health insurance system. It makes no sense to "reform" Medicare in isolation.

If we just cap Medicare, needy seniors would get bare-bones care while more affluent people could supplement their insurance out of pocket. The decent cure for Medicare's cost inflation lies in comprehensive universal health insurance so that the entire system is more efficient and less prone to inflation. You don't hear many budget hawks supporting that brand of reform.

The deficit hawks' story also contends that we are sacrificing our children's future by too much (deficit) spending on the elderly. In fact, today's young adults are already falling out of the middle class because of the high costs of the investments we don't adequately finance socially -- child care, college tuition and health insurance. But fiscal conservatives seldom call for increased investment in the young. Today's young, of course, will be tomorrow's retirees, and they will need social insurance, too.

The overall bottom line? The economy we bequeath to our children has everything to do with getting growth back on track and almost nothing to do with imagined future deficits.

History provides a parallel. At the end of World War II, the public debt was about 120 percent of GDP -- about three times today's ratio. Yet the heavily indebted wartime economy stimulated a quarter-century postwar boom -- because all that debt went to recapitalize American industry, advance science and technology, retrain our unemployed and put them to work.

We need to increase public spending and debt now to restore economic growth and then gradually reduce the debt ratio once recovery comes. Social Security has little to do with this challenge. Nor does Medicare, if we reform our overall health system.

Since the early 1980s, Peter G. Peterson has been warning that future entitlement deficits would crash the economy. Yet when the crash came, the cause was not deficits but wild speculation on Wall Street.

Now, with 401(k) plans swooning and health benefits being cut, Social Security and Medicare are the two bedrock programs that keep tens of millions of elderly Americans from destitution. Why perversely cut these programs to pay for the sins of Wall Street? The attack on social insurance is really an ideological assault, dressed up as fiscal high-mindedness.


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See more stories tagged with: medicare, wall street, social security, peter g. peterson

Robert Kuttner, co-editor of the American Prospect and a senior fellow at the New York public policy group Demos, is most recently the author of "Obama's Challenge: America's Economic Crisis and the Power of a Transformative Presidency."

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Reverse Robin Hood?
Posted by: DrBrian on Feb 24, 2009 12:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The question is whether the same old predatory, greedy, arrogant elites will maintain their control over government policy, allowing them to continue to loot the country under the guise of saving it, or whether the people will have the good sense to rise up and place so much pressure on the politicians that they're forced to implement genuine reforms and protect the people's interests.

Ever since Reagan we've been robbing from the poor to give to the rich. It's about time to reverse the flow.

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» RE: everse Robin Hood? Posted by: Truelass
More Cowardice From The American Prospect ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Feb 24, 2009 12:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with just about everything Kuttner has to say.

It is what Kuttner won't say that that makes him a coward ...

Taxes on the "well to do" must be increased dramatically to help pay for these programs. For all the talk about wealth disparity being the highest since 1929 none of these so called progressives promotes the only way to close that gap ~ much higher taxes on the well to do.

Given the budget deficits we are facing, the record wealth gap and the challenges that face our social programs their answer to finding more revenue is ..... cowardice.

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If they cut Social Security benefits then expect revolution!
Posted by: Jay Randal on Feb 24, 2009 1:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the one thing that could tip American citizenry to go ballistic against our government. Social Security is really the last security Americans have at present. We basically have lousy or no healthcare. Job opportunities are bleak and everything costs more due to inflation. My warning to Obama and Congress: Do NOT cut Social Security benefits or expect We the People to storm the Bastille of Washington, DC.

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» And... Posted by: -matti
Fiscal conservatives? Please don't joke!
Posted by: centure7 on Feb 24, 2009 2:32 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who in Washington is a fiscal conservative!? They are all borrow & spend maniacs! To suggest that fiscal conservatives want ANYTHING but for Social Security to be fully funded at all times is a complete misunderstanding.

Surely Alternet authors ought to know the difference between a maniac big spender "conservative" and a fiscal conservative. Seriously! Look this stuff up!

Also, damn Obama for stating he intends to give my country another $4+ trillion worth of debt over the next few years, and even more debt in 2012! I guess what Bush and Clinton didn't literally bankrupt our nation so Obama has to try harder. Who the hell would be impressed if I could afford is $10,000 a year then I decide to spend $50,000 this year when I need to be saving instead of spending and then say "oh look at me I'm so awesome that within four years I'll reduce my spending to $25,000 a year!" America is fucking finished with that kind of spending. Seriously FINSHED!

And no there are no fiscal conservatives in ALL of Washington except Ron Paul so I hope all the idiot voters who re-elected congress enjoy the 3rd world status we will be getting soon because of the lack of fiscal conservatives in our government.

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The dread disorder of Clinton Amnesia
Posted by: Perry Logan on Feb 24, 2009 3:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Ever since Reagan we've been robbing from the poor to give to the rich."

The author of this sentiment--like most commenters at AlterNet--seems to suffer from the dread disease of Clinton Amnesia.

Clinton Amensia is necessary to fly the argument that both parties are wholly owned by the corporations.

In all the world, no one but me seems to remember any of Bill Clinton's myriad accomplishments, which serve to dispel this argument.

This ignorance is not altogether surprising, as the corporate media would never report anything that the man did--certainly not without putting a whopping big spin on it. But it is disappointing to see that progressives haven't lifted a finger to set the record straight--and a sobering thought that the minds of most liberals in America are filed with ideas that were deliberately planted there to weaken the left.

Clinton was a moderate Democrat, and yet income rose at all levels under his administration.

The poverty rate went down; the poverty rates for blacks, hispanics, and women reached record lows.

Under Clinton, we enjoyed the greatest expansion of job opportunity since the GI Bill, lowest teen birthrate in our nation's history, a steady decline in the violent crime rate--that sort of thing.

Again: Clinton inherited the biggest deficit in U.S. history, and handed Bush II the biggest surplus in U.S. history.

Since this sort of information contradicts the notion that both parties are corporate shills, people simply ignore it. Hence, all the amnesia we're seeing these days.

A clip called Myst

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SHOCK DOCTRINE 101
Posted by: TFYQA on Feb 24, 2009 3:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark;
the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." – Plato

Americans are being played like a fiddle by their masters. Nero comes to mind...

ALL OF THEM MUST GO !
linked text

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Obama's Challenge
Posted by: Tom Degan on Feb 24, 2009 4:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you haven't read Robert Kuttner's book "Obama's Challenge" you really ought to. It was written (and titled) before the election. Evidently Mr. Kuttner had more confidence than I in the ultimate intelligence of the American people. To the final hour I believed that the GOP was going to be able to steal it.

They Hate the American People

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» they did steal it . . . Posted by: dustdevil
What about War spending
Posted by: AndyF on Feb 24, 2009 4:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its disappointing that while it is easy to get a story in the MSM regarding reducing entitlement spending and the need to reduce any spending related to social programs, the mere suggestion that real and substantive reductions could be made in our "defense" spending never even see the light of day. If defense spending was cut by 25% the US would still spend more than every other country in the world by a large margin and see little if no change in the US' ability to defend itself.

What needs to be done to get the sacred cow of defense on the table and to start carving it up as gleefully as conservatives would chop spending on social security and medicare?

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» RE: Absolutely! Posted by: Cybershaman
One Day You Will Be Old
Posted by: ATH on Feb 24, 2009 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And perhaps between now and then you will learn proper English. An "elderly corpse" is what is called an oxymoron. I'm sure you can relate, and you probably use something with the word "oxy" in it--either to get high or to treat your pimples. You certainly "speak" like an adolescent, and an insensitive prick as well. As for the moron part...well, that should be self-evident, even for a moron.

But my words will mean nothing to you. Suffering is the only true teacher, and one day you will suffer. Perhaps then you will remember my words. Life, to all humans, appears to pass more quickly every year. From 16 to 21 seemed like an eternity for me. 21 to 26 went by much more quickly, but it seems like quite a bit happened in that time. But from 26 to 30 passed in a wink, and from 30 to 40 seemed to take less time than it did to go from 21 to 26.

You will see. And the thing that really sucks is that, just as one reaches the peak of intelligence, confidence, and a calmer emotional center, the body begins to wear down.
Suddenly (if you have to do any real work, anyway) your back aches, your joints get stiff, and your energy level drops. It really sucks, but it's not something I would mock since everyone has to go through this process!
Just as everyone must die. Of course, man is trying to cure death, but considering the condition of the planet, do you really think we're going to last long enough to do this? No, unless the rich manage to wipe out everyone but themselves (which is something they would love to do)...but then, who would do all the manual labor? Clones? Advanced robotics? Again, time is not on their side, and I'm personally happy about it, for the last thing I want is for the rich to survive. No, they will not make it.

In fact, the only sustainable way of life is of the type we lived thousands of years ago. Any social group that has to import goods to survive is living an unsustainable life. Sure, it can be sustained for quite some time, but eventually, the people will destroy the source of whatever it is they are populating. The only way to live sustainably is to take responsibility and care for the land, which is from whence all life, food, and commerce/trade come.

The U.S. once had a strong economy, based on creating goods and services. We were a thriving industrial nation, that could never have been brought down the way our current economy has. Since the FED was created, we have moved from an economy based on real things, to an economy based on credit.

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RE: lderly Corpses.
Posted by: nate on Feb 24, 2009 6:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And if Medicare is stopped, the same thing. Many die.

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We all need to write the President and let him know that We will NOT Accept S.S. Cuts!
Posted by: ATH on Feb 24, 2009 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What needs to be cut is our so-called "defense" budget, which, with our new pre-emptive wars (what Judge Jackson called "the ultimate war crime" during the Nuremberg trials), should more appropriately be titled "Offense Budget." Anyway, our military budget is as large as all the rest of everything we fund in our over all budget. The DoD is the most wasteful of all Depts. We have all types of "pork" projects going on that have nothing to do with legitimate National Security. And even with all that we spend, we were unable (unless something more sinister was truly behind 9/11...there's no doubt we've been lied to, and not told the whole story. But I have no theory I can support with evidence as to what actually happened)to prevent the attacks of 9/11. We should have been able to prevent them; the NSA and FBI were both tracking them, knew they had entered the country. But for some reason, no one talked to each other, agencies didn't share information, and agents were actually told to leave it alone. Even more suspicious was the changing--just about a month, I believe it was, from 9/11-- of SOPs dealing with errant aircraft.And, of course, the most suspicious thing of all, and what prevented any of our fighters from reaching these planes, was the running of multiple war-game exercises, which not only put phantom radar "inserts" on our fighters screens, but were also projected onto FAA monitors. This should never have happened; and, as soon as the FAA reported errant aircraft, these inserts should have been IMMEDIATELY removed, but weren't.
All the laws that've been passed eviserate our freedoms, but have done nothing to address what was a human problem; the people who dropped the ball, who acted with complete incompetence, were all..promoted! We could have done more to address the incompetence that truly prevented 9/11 from being stopped by holding those responsible for our protection accountable, and by doing a proper investigation to see if someone high up in our government committed treason! Because it's obvious that a lot of people knew this tragedy was going to take place, and where and when it was goingto take place. Why were investigations not conducted into the probability-defying put-options placed on the airlines involved, the buildings, and even the insurance companies responsible for insuring those airlines, etc. And if there was an investigation, why did we never hear about it?
What does Sibel Edmonds know that is so embarassing to our government?

Dwight Eisenhower warned the American people of the growing power of the MIC, but no one took action to prevent the MIC from gaining more and more power. Now, everything is controlled by these few groups. There seems to be no central authority or organization; apprently, it's a headless monster. But it does represent an Oligarchy of power. Between the MIC, the FIRE sector, and energy giants, our government is completely controlled. Of course, there is a lot of over-lap between these powers. The Firewalls that existed, mainly put in place by F.D.R. as part of the New Deal (in response to the G.D.), have been torn down through the last decades, really beginning with Reagan, continuing with Clinton, and reaching critical mass with G.W. Bush. And now we are about to enter another depression, which will dwarf the G.D. IMO, and there's talk of further dismantling the protections and programs which got us out of the first G.D.? It has been the destruction of the regulations enacted by F.D.R. along with these trade policies that has allowed these Wallstreet and international bankers to push us into what will be another G.D.

Anyone talking about cutting Social Security should suffer--at the very least-- political death. This is one thing we can not allow.

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Progressives Will Get The Future We Deserve
Posted by: joebhed on Feb 24, 2009 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kuttner is right about all the prognostications and threats by the Petersons, et.al.

But he is wrong in blaming the potential outcome on the failure of the reality of fiscal conservatives.

The problem lies more squarely on progressive economists, and their failure to come to grips with the reality of the financial system that deals us all this hand.

Were the Kuttners, Bakers, Kleins and Greiders to grasp the monetary position of MILTON FRIEDMAN, who backed the radical progressive ideas of the Simons and Fisher Chicago Plan and on the 100 percent reserve banking system, we would have an answer to this radical conservative power grab.

Instead we have powerful folks like Bob Kuttner and others who will line up and say, This isn't fair!.
If that is progressive leadership, just pull down your pants and get ready for that second capitalist coming.

It's either that, or:
Debt-free money.
Government-issue.
100 percent reserve banking.
Lincoln and Friedman.
We're waiting, progressive leaders.
We're ready.
For your leadership.
Anti-inflationary.
Monetary soundness and stability.
Let the bankers lend real money.
Progressive monetary transformation out of this mess.
The Chicago Plan.
Social Credit Revisited.

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» Correction Posted by: ATH
Let's start looking at the Pentagon's budget
Posted by: sausage on Feb 24, 2009 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow! Talk about a bloated pig!

We all know this. Anyone whose seen the ubiquitous Ben & Jerry's Sensible Priorities refrigerator magnet knows this. Defense spending eats up half the federal budget yearly. And of that half of the federal budget, I'd hazard a guess that half of that is pure waste!

Oh, and talk about your earmarks!

And then there is the Pentgon's black-budget. I think this pays for all the really cockamamie, Laputian ideas for future weapon systems the Pentagon's armchair generals dream up and black ops like rendition.

If the Defense Department's budget were cut by a third there would be enough to "save" Social Security and Medicare, I'll bet.

It's time this obscenely obese budget hog was lead to the chopping block.

Just put the DoD budget on the chopping block and go at it with the meat ax! Liposuction ain't gonna be enough!

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Rather than Cut Defense Spending We Rob the Poor
Posted by: Shankari46 on Feb 24, 2009 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why? The military's sole purpose is to wage war for the elite. Shove Wal-Mart's down everyone's throat and call it democracy or rob others of their oil. I saw this one coming.
My Article

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how about writing out a petition to send to Obama/Biden
Posted by: using on Feb 24, 2009 8:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
af

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What can we do to stop this?
Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 24, 2009 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter what this article, and logical minds, say we must do to resist, what the Peter Petersons of the country want to do has terrific odds of coming to fruition, if the past is any prologue to the future. From the days of second-rate actor and third-rate president Ronald Reagan, our own government has obediently followed their leash pulled by Wall Street/moneyed interests and consistantly attacked those least able to defend them selves: the poor and middle income levels (I refuse to use the word "class" here because that implies social station, and I've known poor people who have way more class than half the jerks on Wall Street ...).

Frankly, I wish that 9/10ths of the population would figure out how to "get off the grid" and support each other locally to shut down the whole stinking mess; but at the moment that doesn't seem to be practical. So, I'll do what we all can do and bang out letters to Obama and my representatives; but that effort seems pathetic in the face of the wealth juggernaut that continually rolls over the rest of us. Any other suggestions?

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Fixing Social Security and Medicare is actually pretty easy.
Posted by: DCostello2 on Feb 24, 2009 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't fall for their crap about large and complicated problems and thus large and complicated fixes. It's pretty easy actually.

First, Social Security.
1 - Social Security IS NOT part of the standard budget. Social Security is IT'S OWN trust fund. So, for starters, keep everyone's money grubbing HANDS OFF!! This means Congress and the pResident. The only thing Social Security should be paying is Social Security benefits.

2 - Never, ever, ever PRIVATIZE Social Security. Take a look at your IRA and/or 401(k)/403(b). Now imagine the same thing happening to Social Security. NEVER, EVER, EVER let those greedy bastards on Wall St get near the TRUST FUND.

3 - Get rid of the wage cap. Right now, the only people who pay for Social Security are the ones who can't afford it. If anything, reverse the cap so that people who make less than $50,000 pay NOTHING. By getting rid of the wage cap we can broaden the base of those who pay and, most likely, reduce the rate while still raising more than enough money to make the Social Security TRUST FUND solvent forever.

Medicare
1 - Bring back the Estate Tax, which was a tax on the TRANSFER OF WEALTH AND ASSETS and use it to fund Medicare. Put in a reasonable cap, 10 Million or so and index it for inflation. Done.

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A question for the GOP Sharks
Posted by: tim_s_eb@yahoo.com on Feb 24, 2009 8:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why was it that the GOP and even most rich democrats voted for the wasteful military budgets and the mass killings in Iraq and Afghanistan and never questioned the abuses of the military contractors like Black Water and Halliburton? Why isn't the war spending questioned rigorously even today? We need to shut the military budget down and question the billions missing at the Pentagon before we even hope to make any progress on fixing our economy. The republicans and the rich and the "angry white men" always point fingers at the poor and needy and blame them for their misery which i find very sick and heartless. They seem unable to get to the root causes of poverty, unemployment, medicare or drug abuse issues instead always blaming the victims which is the easy, immoral and irresponsible thing to do.

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too old to revolt?
Posted by: sharonsylvie on Feb 24, 2009 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe they think seniors are too feeble and handicapped to revolt if their Social Security is cut back. Just wait, enough of us will find a way to protest in Washington even if it takes canes, walkers and wheelchairs. And I need my Medicare too. I waited six years to get help and now I have to hope they put me back together before Medicare disappears too? I don't think so. Maybe if people went after a bunch of politicians, CEOs and bankers, these greedy bastards would think twice. Even Bill Maher said a few dead hedge fund managers would be a really good deterrence.

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Are We Nuts?
Posted by: jimswanson on Feb 24, 2009 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
James A. Swanson, Los Altos, CA
“The Bush League of Nations” [for FREE download of entire $25.95 book]

Here’s an accounting joke—based in truth—that hits the nail on the head:

“The GOP’s balance sheet for America has two sides, with liabilities on the left, and assets on the right. The problem is that on the left, there’s nothing right, while on the right, there’s nothing left.”

Thank you, Ronald Reagan and 30 years of Reaganomics.

Just to be certain, let's put that last dagger in Social Security.

Thank you, Government Goldman Sachs.

Are we nuts?

Jim Swanson, Los Altos, CA
“The Bush League of Nations” [for FREE download of entire $25.95 book]

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Obama and the Banksters (Gangsters)
Posted by: ron heringhauser on Feb 24, 2009 10:40 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The New World Order has created this economic Depression, just as they did in the 30's. They will now come after the pensions, Social Security, and Medicare. They will lie and say they will have a National healthcare program; which will be managed and controlled, limiting options for all, especially the elderly who will be denied needed care (Too costly, let them die). America has lost its way and hopefully 2012 Ron Paul will lead us back!

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Canary in Coal Mine
Posted by: Lilly on Feb 24, 2009 11:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you are a liberal Democrat and most of your friends are liberal Democrats you may not actually keep up what the Right-Wing thinks and says. Every day I read some of the articles and comment threads on townhall.com and I keep urging others to do the same. When I heard conservatives talking ca 1975 I thought they were the lunatic fringe, then the first thing I knew Ronald Reagan was being inaugurated with Nancy in her little red dress and fireworks exploding over Washington, while meanwhile I was making a home visit to a DC inner-city client six blocks from the Capitol living 18 people in two rooms, no details given here or you will throw up your lunch. And for the next 28 years, Reagan's gang ruled the world, in 2000 morphing into Reagan's Gang On Steroids.

As much as we don't like to think about it, there are a lot of people out there who want to canonize Rush Limbaugh. They wield political clout, and they don't play fair, not one bit. Quite frankly, when I watch the tactics of the SS in some vintage World War II movie, I am reminded constantly of attitudes I read on townhall. If you think it's scary that our economy is backing up, read townhall for half an hour and see if you think an angry, deprived, government-resisting, well-armed bunch of our American Nazi neighbors might do anything scary.

For openers, Obama is being squarely blamed for the slowdown. Jindal-and-Perry-and-Lott are hailed as heroes. Government and all forms of regulation = Communism = hell. And every single day, voices are raised urging armed resistance to government: these folks brag about how many guns they have, how many buried caches of weapons. Townhall publishes one guy's serialized novella of which the plotline involves mostly "Patriots" shooting "Socialists" in the head.

John Stuart Mill, ca 1850: "He who knows only his own case knows little of that." Travel is broadening. We snotty liberal elites are not alone here. Go check out townhall.

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higher wages = higher tax base
Posted by: zrants on Feb 24, 2009 11:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What should you expect to happen to the tax base when you increase debt and credit instead of wages and income, start an expensive war and, lower taxes?

We need to make economics a required class in high school. People should have to pass a math test to qualify for a credit card or loan. Anyone who can't balance a check book, using a calculator, should NOT be allowed to borrow money. That would solve the mortgage crisis.

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Social Security
Posted by: MtnWolfGrl on Feb 24, 2009 12:30 PM   
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Here are two articles and their links) concerning social security at the nation's website:

Riding into the Sunset by William Greider:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050627/greider

Looting Social Security by William Greider:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090302/greider

Interested readers may have to copy and past.

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Tax the churches
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Feb 24, 2009 1:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That should be good for starters. Billions from church run businesses and property.

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Same ol' merry-go-round
Posted by: willymack on Feb 24, 2009 6:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The rethug rat bastards have been trying to destroy Social Security since FDR signed it into law. If they succeed in their destructive efforts, my fearless prediction is that'll be the end of them, and they'll join the Whigs in the historical dumpster.

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Privatization
Posted by: talkville on Feb 25, 2009 3:14 AM   
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It may indeed be a "perverse" idea, but it's been among the perverse ideas all-along ever since the global neo-liberal putsch began.

If you want to live, you must pay some private entity or other for the Privilege; if you can't, you're on your own. It's called "Privatization" and it sure doesn't stop with Medicare and Medicaid or Social Security. Also included are Water and all forms of Energy, Roads, and any other primary needs of living. Property trumps Life, no matter how it's dressed-up to make it seem otherwise. It's called "capitalism" -- whether this be in it's production or its financial form. And it serves some, not all.

We are born and we die.... but property is forever and, plus, it can be inherited and passed on....

And, as we all know, what is perverse to one, is a downright gold-mine to another!!

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Our owners don't work for wages
Posted by: billwald on Feb 25, 2009 10:08 AM   
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People like the Bush family and the bankers who have been in the press are way down the food chain. Our real owners - the people we never heard of - don't work for wages and don't have income. They only pay capital gains on the assets they cash in.

The working people - those Obama says net less than a quarter million taxable a year - are living frugally if they can save 10% of their income every year and give 5% to charity.

Consider that at 8% gain and a 25% marginal tax rate, it would take about $12 million savings a year to have a $Billion assets after 30 years according to an on line calculator.

How much do you suppose a person with a $Billion in assets might spend every year? Rule of thumb is 4% a year withdrawal will maintain one's capital assets. 4% of a billion is $40 million a year unless I am more senile than I think. How many billionaires actually spend $40 million a year?

My point, that while 90% of us pay income taxes on most all our our annual income and spend 90% of what is left, a person with a billion in assets probably spends 10% of his annual increase and pays 20% capital gains on only what he spends. The rest accumulates tax free.

So what does the billionaire do with his money? He puts it into tax free trusts which make hi more money and 401c3 charities which don't make HIM money.

But charities make lots of money, it just doesn't go to stockholders. It goes to the charity administration whom the rich guy controls, pragmatically owns.

Real rich guys want more power, not more money. Why? To stomp on the serfs.

Bottom line, the only chance for the working class is to tax trusts and stomp on private charities else our assets will continue to
flow to the REAL rich.

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» RE: Our owners don't work for wages Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
The few elite ran with the corporate money
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson on Mar 2, 2009 9:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HOW BANKERS WENT DOWN by www.mint.com blog

September 2007-

-Richard Fuld of Lehman Brothers bankruptcy after 14 yrs. Even though he didn’t sell his shares prior to Chapter 11, he still pocketed close to half a billion 7 years prior.

October 2007

-Stan O’Neal after 21 years with $165 million packages as the company posted $8 billion in losses-

November 2007

-Charles Prince retired from Citigroup after 4 years and a poor 3rd quarter performance. He took nearly $100 million with him.

January 2008

-James Cayne lost most of his fortune in the Bear Stearns collapse. After 39 years he parted with $13 million.

June 2008

-G. Kennedy Thompson was pushed out of Wachovia amid turmoil in the US housing market. After 32 years he left with $8.7 million.

-After founding Countrywide Financial 39 years ago, Angel Mozillo cashed out and took home $130 million retiring the day it was taken over by Bank of America.

September 2008

-Daniel Mudd was dismissed from Fanny Mae after 8 years. He took $8 million with him.

-Richared Syron was terminated from the now insolvent Freddie Mac after 5 years. He took $16 million in severance and other compensation.

-Kerry Killinger was removed from Washington Mutual after 25 years. After the biggest failure in the US Banking history. Killinger parted with $44 million.

-Alan Fishman helmed Washington Mutual of 17 days before it failed. He left with a $19 million in severance pay and signing bonuses.

-Robert Willumstad left AIG after 2 years; and only 3 months as CEO. He declined package with $22 million.

-October 2008

-Mack Whittle returned from South Financial Group days before it planned to apply for federal loans, thus limiting executive parachutes. After 22 years he received $18 million send off package.

TOTAL RIP OFF OF CONSUMERS:

1003.7 million or 1 Billion.

COMMENTS:

Where is that Corporate Responsibility Act to stop these Ponzi schemes much like the Dot Coms, Enron, etc.? Congress can hang their heads in shame instead of trying to blame the other party. Both refused regulation and cut funds from the SEC, etc. Now the tax payers are to bail them all out. Is this not the biggest wealth sift in history?

http://www.house.gov/visclosky/hr1340.htm

Corporate Responsibility Act.

http://www.allbusiness.com/
glossaries/corporate-responsibility-act-2002/4957496-1.html

Where are the RICO indictments?

They only good thing is that the CEO separation packages got less as time went on. So regulation and over sight would have worked. Why not until now? We’ve had many years of Ponzi like fraud and robbery by banks and financial institutions. This is yet another reason to bring Bush, Inc. to court over fraud and robbery. They robbed the people and destroyed our financial system. The best and most trusted in the world financial system to the most criminal in just eight years.

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