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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

Republicans Fight Obama's Stimulus Plan, Fearing Its Success Will Mean Years of Political Oblivion

By Dean Baker, AlterNet. Posted January 6, 2009.


For Republicans, one lesson of the New Deal is that it left the Democrats firmly in power for more than 20 years.

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At least some Republicans are starting to muster an anti-stimulus drive, claiming that President-elect Obama's package will not help the economy. Their drive is centered on what they claim is a careful rereading of the history of the New Deal. According to their account, President Roosevelt's policies actually lengthened the Great Depression.

In their story, we would have been better off if we just left the market to adjust by itself. New Deal programs that directly employed people, or in other ways supported living standards, created an uncertain investment climate. They claim that this uncertainty slowed the process of market adjustment that was necessary for returning to high levels of employment.

he Wagner Act, which created the legal framework for the union organizing drives of the era, stands out as being especially pernicious in their story. The Fair Labor Standards Act, which created the 40-hour workweek and established the first national minimum wage, also gets singled out for criticism. In this new reading of history, what most people consider the great successes of the New Deal simply worsened the Great Depression.

In reality, any careful reading showed that the New Deal policies substantially ameliorated the effects of the Great Depression for tens of millions of people. The major economic failing of the New Deal was that President Roosevelt was not prepared to push the policies as far as necessary to fully lift the economy out of the Great Depression.

Roosevelt was too worried about the whining of the anti-stimulus crowd that he confronted. He remained concerned about balancing the budget when the proper goal of fiscal policy should have been large deficits to stimulate the economy. Roosevelt's policies substantially reduced the unemployment rate from the 25 percent peak when he first took office, but they did not get the unemployment rate back into single digits.

It took the enormous public spending associated with World War II to fully lift the economy out of the depression. The lesson that economists take away from this experience is that we should be prepared to run very large deficits in order to give the economy a sufficient boost to generate self-sustaining growth.

However, from the standpoint of Republicans, the more ominous lesson of the New Deal policies is that it left the Democrats firmly in power for more than 20 years. The Republicans did not regain the White House until 1952, 20 years after President Roosevelt was first elected.

Imagine how terrifying the prospect of 20 years of Democratic presidencies must be for the current generation of Republican leaders. This would mean that they would not retake the White House until 2028, just 20 years before the Social Security trust fund is first projected to face a shortfall.

In 2028, Newt Gingrich will be 85 years old; Mitt Romney will be 81; Mike Huckabee will be 73 and Senator McCain will be 98. Even Sarah Palin will be a less than youthful 64. In short, if President-elect Obama is allowed to carry through with his stimulus package and the rest of his ambitious domestic agenda, most of current leadership of the Republican Party can expect to spend the rest of their political career in the political wilderness, far removed from the centers of power.

For this reason, the Republicans can be expected to adopt a strategy aimed at delaying and diluting the stimulus. We can expect their leaders to find every conceivable argument to slow down the spending that the economy desperately needs right now to prevent further job loss. While some of their concerns may be legitimate - we should all support efforts to restrain wasteful pork barrel spending and rein in corruption - these concerns should not be the basis for obstructing stimulus. The public should be careful to distinguish legitimate concerns from simple delaying tactics.

In short, we should realize that the main concern of some of those opposed to stimulus may not be that it will fail, but rather that it will succeed. Most of us don't have the same set of concerns.


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See more stories tagged with: republicans, obama, economic crisis, stimulus package, new deal, fdr, financial crisis

Dean Baker is co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research.

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May I add a little footnote.
Posted by: WhatNow? on Jan 6, 2009 3:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The Republicans did not regain the White House until 1952, 20 years after President Roosevelt was first elected."

Eisenhower was pursued by the democratic party to run for president as a democrat in 1948. So you may be able to consider Nixon the first real "rethuglican" to become president after FDR.

"most of current leadership of the Republican Party can expect to spend the rest of their political career in the political wilderness, far removed from the centers of power."

That would be a real blessing for both true christians and heathens such as myself.

However I am worried Obomber may end up being worse than Bush with his appointments of the very people who helped cause all these problems. He's even asking for Jim Leach's input, the same man who's name is on the Gramm, Leach, Bliley act. And now he's spitting out more repugnican ideals with his proposals of more tax cuts.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: A footnote to your footnote Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Nixon Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Nixon Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Nixon......Cybershaman Posted by: Basenjis
» How old would Jeb Bush be? Posted by: cherylholmes
Give Obama some credit
Posted by: Rod on Jan 6, 2009 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one is 100% correct or incorrect. Even a stopped clock is right 2 times a day.
Obama seems to want contrary opinions in his cabinet, not yes men. A wise decision on his part, then he can pick the best parts of each sides ideas and combine them to get an effective course of action. So picking someone who was "responsible" for the current problems does not doom him to failure, he will simply have more choices to pick from. Compared to the current cabinet of GWB, I think this is a wise choice. Lets wait to criticize until he actually takes office.

Rod

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» RE: Give Obama some credit Posted by: madmax427
» garbage in - garbage out... Posted by: undrgrndgirl
for those whom were public school educated
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Jan 8, 2009 1:11 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FDR policies only pro longed the depression

It was WWII that got us out, yes a days battle in WWII would of scored more causalities than we have currently in Iraq. Oh and if you were a saboteur, you were tried and executed (no ACLU to save your ass) and dont get me started about in interment camps that were set up... So if we wanna revist the 1930's and 1940's be my guest, I just wont participate.

I think its also time for Republicans to well act like Republicans again instead of a DNC light however its also time for the typical Democrat voter to abandon this "win at all cost" mentality or we will keep having situations like "Illinois, New York, New Mexico... and don't get me started on New Jersey"

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» (R)INO's vs Conservatives Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: (R)INO's vs Conservatives Posted by: Sconan56
» RE: (R)INO's vs Conservatives Posted by: Sconan56
» RE: I would surmise,... Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE:Shut up Posted by: Tom Tele
Obama's Stimulus Will Do Little ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Jan 8, 2009 1:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And when it fails the Dems will look like incompetents. Kinda like Harry Reid looks right now, befuddled.

Paul Krugman has already spoken to this point ...

This Looks Like the Start of a Second Great Depression

The stimulus will be too little too late to turn the rising tide of bankruptcies and unemployment. Obama has already given the Republicans the gift of business tax breaks to talk about and negotiate ~ why not let them bring it up. But No, Obama gave up that ground before the battles even started.

Obama's incrementalism will be fatal for real answers to massive problems.

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» RE: Obama's Stimulus Will Do Little ... Posted by: stopthemaddness2
Franklin Delano Obama
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jan 8, 2009 2:13 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No question about it: Barack Obama is inheriting the worst mess since FDR entered the White House seventy-seven years ago.

It must be remembered that Roosevelt only had the Depression to deal with. WW II did not arrive for almost eight years. It's almost as if President Obama will be dealing with the Depression and WW II at the same time!

I don't envy the guy.

POST #200: The Worst of "The Rant"

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: Franklin Delano Obama Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Franklin Delano Obama Posted by: stopthemaddness2
Republicans pontificating on Obama's fixes---
Posted by: jvaljon1 on Jan 8, 2009 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
because they're afraid that if he fixes what THEY DID to the economy--there would be a second political oblivion for the Rethuglicans, equal at least to the one that followed their First Great Depression???

A-w-w-w, BOO HOO, you moron thug thieves! What has been shocking me all along, is that the lessons of the First Great Depression were forgotten as quickly as they were. Actually not forgotten--just, not thought about as much. But believe you me, we're ALL thinking about it now.

Roosevelt set up Social Security to be forever "beyond the reach of politicians". That's why, although they raid the Funds at will, the politicians MUST ALWAYS PAY THE FUNDS BACK. Lockboxes are the answer here.

Also--immediately legalize all 'illegals'. They're here and THEY PAY IN TO SOCIAL SECURITY. That will eliminate the so-called 'donut hole' created by people living longer lives. Social Security can be easily made to fit America's changing circumstances without eliminating it.

As for cutting taxes on the rich--a foul and vile piece of Bush filth--that can stop as of now. Using 'overseas' for corporations to stop paying taxes is BS--also the HB visa system which has now been shown to be what it always was--a system to lower wages on our best and our brightest, by insourcing subsidized foreign labor.

This skirting of labor laws has to be stopped. And politicians have to stop their war against unions. Social Security would have a lot more money now, if Ronnie Dearest hadn't opened all Rethuglican guns on the program. Nevertheless, Social Security is OK and will be even more so with two things happening: the rich paying their fair share of taxes--ALL EMPLOYERS PAYING INTO THE SS SYSTEM (I see there's been slippage there, and that has to stop RIGHT NOW) and legalizing all the illegals which will bring them officially into the system.

The illegals come from a society where 9 or 10 children are the norm--or, as many as 'traffic will bear'. They take care of their old. They will not be the burden on the system that other immigrants were--the South Americans bring their whole families over with them.

If unions exist to take the place of the (former) American extended family, as some have posited--then the current Rethuglican war against unions must come to an immediate halt.

The Democrats had it right--and, during the 50s, 60s & 70s--all the way up to Ronnie Dearest--built the mightiest nation on the face of the planet. It was defined by the American Middle Class, which grew when everyone was free to work and Social Security, thanks to FDR, was the third leg of retirement. It still is. We for instance were able to save money toward retirement and we occasionally have to dip into it now and then.

Retirement should not be a time of poverty and fear for workers who gave their young lives to build the mighty economic powerhouse that was America, before the current 'Rethuglican Revolution'.

You BET they're afraid to be consigned to political oblivion. They tried to say that the Depression was the Democrats' fault, in the 30s, when even the most cursory studies of the era point definitively to Repuglican misrule and looting of the American worker. Once that stopped, America thrived and grew mighty.

Yeah, the Thugs are afraid. The tide of red ink, bank foreclosures and job losses under the Republicans are now beginning to overwhelm even their ability to lie about their own hand in this. Obama's fixes will point fingers at them? Those fingers are ALREADY pointing at them, and fingers yet unborn will join those pointing to the Republicans as the worst liars and thieves in this nation's history.

The rich (Repubs) will always take take take from the poor and Middle Class. It's up to real Americans to keep them contained and NEVER EVER EVER VOTE REPUBLICAN AGAIN.

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» Obama's Fixes Aren't ... Posted by: mmckinl
» Business as usual Posted by: socialpsych
The Election-Fraud Factor
Posted by: Perry Logan on Jan 8, 2009 3:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They deserve to be out of office forever. Unfortunately, the Republicans have quite a bit of election-theft machinery still in place.

On Democracy Now, Mark Crispin Miller estimates that Obama won the election by twice as much as the record shows, thanks to vote caging, vote suppression, voter intimidation, gerrymandering, dirty tricks, and vote-flipping software.

This means that, if we don't take action soon, the next President of the United States will be Jeb Bush.

The right and left in America cannot live together. We need to get the wingers out of our country and herd them all to beautiful
Wingnutania.

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RE: FOCUS FOCUS FOCUS WHO CARES????
Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Jan 8, 2009 6:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DOING IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN COMPLAINING AND GRIPING!

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not to worry
Posted by: gellero1 on Jan 8, 2009 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
prices of goods will be triple what they are now. Those 'stimulus' fiat dollars will mean your yearly will be 100 grand.........but it won't buy you much. The Messiah will have to take the blame.

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» What Messiah? Posted by: Beck
Open Season
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jan 8, 2009 6:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After every Repug Pres's reckless spending spree, bringing on a Recession, Repugs had better be aware the Majority of Americans would love to see their head removed from their Shoulders.
I keep hearing these 'Repug Stratedgists' warn about the effect this stimulus package will have on the Deficit...10 Billion a Month Illegal War, The TARP Swindle, tax cuts for the top 5%!!!Honey's You already fucked US!
The Blanant Hatred they showed towards th eAuto workers told the American people Repugs HATE American Workers. Doesn't take a leap of logic to know once they bring down the Unions, their next target will be the Non Union workers. They don't want Corps to pay healthcare, but they don't want the gov't Either..so who's Left just every single citizen. Now consider who will profit from such a market which requires individual to negotiate their own healthcare insurance, yet has no imput into the Costs.Repugs have blocked Healthcare reform consistently, then Decry it is the reason we are losing business to other countries who cover their citizens.this makes no sense until you consdier the idea they are trying to crate a Thrid world economy, where healthcare is a matter of'survival of the fittest'. Hell with their 'abstinence only' sex education programs, who cares if you die needlessly, they're producing more everyday to take your place. Repugs (and Their Covert Operatives in the DLC) consider Humans to be a commodity which is more Cost effective when devalued to the lowest level the market can drive them down too.
Frankly Denying American Citizens a Hand from the Gov't they support with their Tax dollars is a Clear Statement these Politicans Work for the Corps and NOT FOR US! TREASON. That should go over well with the masses they got all fired up with their 'patriotism' propagnada.Guess "Patriotism' is just a slogan for the Election cycles Ah Repugs

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the rich don't want some of the USA money...they want ALLLLLL of it so they can enslave the poor
Posted by: kathrinka on Jan 8, 2009 6:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the rich want all of the money and they will stop at nothing to get it all. once they have all the money they will attempt to gain all the personal property and enslave the poor. world banking system is their first step.

obama can and will clean up the mess the republicans left. it will take time.

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you can tell a book by it's title!
Posted by: 2thepoint on Jan 8, 2009 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Republicans Fight Obama's Stimulus Plans, Fearing Its Success Will Mean Years of Political Oblivion" - then the article starts with "at least some republicans".. so how does this translate into the message in the opening title or that republicans rear that it might be successful?

What is this article missing..that democrats are obviously the more corrupt of the two parties although they both are pretty bad and the democrats are the more incompetent of the two.. just take a look at the issues surrounding the gov of NJ, NY,Ill - mayor of Detroit, congressman from La. to name a few..Then look at Reid's handling of the Burris's appointment!

I think the democrats will take no more than the first year to remind americans why they elected republicans in the first place - then realize they are both disasters and finally think independent!

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Go, oh go, to Mexico
Posted by: littlepitcher on Jan 8, 2009 8:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have a first-time unemployment filing rate above 7% and an actual unemployment rate which probably is double that.

Legal Americans need those jobs. Even the agricultural jobs can be filled by youth and singles who currently are unemployed.

If employers have to raise wages to get an American, no big hairy deal. We have been subsidizing these bozos for years with free hospital, health care, housing, welfare bailouts for these employers' low wages. They have bankrupted hospitals and run doctors out of small towns.

You want them legal? Leave us behind and go where they already are legal.

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Blazing Sadles
Posted by: JSquercia on Jan 8, 2009 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Republican attitude reminds me of that Scene from from Blazing Saddles where Mel Brooks says "we've gotb save our phoney baloney jobs "
There is no concern for the country ONLY for the party .

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» RE: Blazing Sadles Posted by: stopthemaddness2
One party system
Posted by: constitution, what constitution on Jan 8, 2009 10:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I honestly do not understand the amount of people on here claiming the current economic downturn/recession/depression/whatever you want to call it is the Republicans' fault. It's the fault of both parties over the past 60+ years. It's the fault of all politicians focused on their personal well being and too shortsighted to see any issues that may arise from their policies. Our country has been a series of temporary economic fixes for years now.

Why is this surprising to so many people?

Maybe because no one likes to admit they've been duped; and America as a whole has been duped for years.

Wake up. Read a few books. Stop pointing fingers. Get out and do something. Elect different people or run for office yourself.

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» Yes, do something Posted by: Beck
» RE: One party system Posted by: freelyb
Size doesn't Matter
Posted by: gar1948 on Jan 8, 2009 10:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...we should be prepared to run very large deficits in order to give the economy a sufficient boost to generate self-sustaining growth."

This is an idiotic statement. As Bush proved over the last eight years, it is not the size of the deficit that matters, it is what you do with the money. When Bush Jr. took office, there was a budget surplus, now there is an eleven trillion dollar deficit and look at the economic mess we are in.

When the money is expended on activities and goods that do not produce real wealth, for all the good it does for the country and the ordinary people of the country, the money might as well have been piled up and burned.

The reason the 700 billion we just "burned" by giving it to the banks and Wall Street didn't make a dent in our economic problem is simple. If you give a thousand dollars to a man who already has more money than he knows what to do with, is he going to spend it, thus adding a boost to the economy? No he isn't. He is going to look around for a way to "invest" it.

If you give the same thousand to a man who is unemployed what is he going to do with it? He is going to spend it on food, shelter, clothing or some other tangible good thus creating a demand for something and a job for someone who makes that something.

The same is true for money spent on wars. Money spent on a bomber does give a job to the people who build the bomber and the people who fly it but its primary purpose is to destroy things that will just have to be rebuilt. And, in the end, the bomber too is destroyed.

If this money had been spent on roads, or bridges, or schools, or health care it would have actually added to the wealth of the country so even though the country had a "deficit" it would be offset by something substantial that increases real wealth.

So, yes, running up large deficits can help but only if the money is used to create real wealth, not if it is thrown away fighting wars just so we can pay to rebuild what we blew up. Even worse is running up deficits to pad the paychecks and accounts of companies and people who just stash it away.

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From what I've seen of Obama's plan so far
Posted by: sonofloud on Jan 8, 2009 10:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
more tax cuts for the rich, more questionable "rebates" for the rest of us and a deficit be damned attitude.....I don't think the republicans will have much to complain about.

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This is just so typical
Posted by: deb.dellapiana on Jan 8, 2009 10:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's right: Let's put party politics ahead of the taxpaying citizens one more time. You would think that these clowns would have figured out why they lost so badly in the House and Senate, and also lost the White House. They just don't get it.

It'll be a great day when the do-nothing 110th Congress -- and the obstructionist Republicans -- get the hell out of DC.

Its time for Americans to take their country back.

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» /agreed Posted by: EinMD
Ya gotta wonder
Posted by: willymack on Jan 8, 2009 11:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why the rethugs want so desperately to cling to power. It couldn't be the MONEY, now, could it? Naaaaa. It must be their burning desire to serve nobodys like us. Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket. Ya also gotta wonder how they have the gaul to offer opinions on Obama's economic plan after they've managed to screw up the economy beyond recognition. Could it be it's ALSO the money? Hmmm?

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Barbara, Michigan
Posted by: avidAmerican on Jan 8, 2009 1:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our New President Obama has his hands full with the need to undo all the damage done by the Bush Thugs in the White House and the Bush Puppets in Congress. I watch the Senate daily, and already the first day in session, the Republican dummies are trying to block Legislation! They are doing the same as they've done the past 2 years, just trying to shut down progress in our government. Is it any wonder that their numbers are dwindling? Problem is that the idiots sending these moronic R's to Congress have sent them back again. McConnell is the worst of all and I can't believe anyone was stupid enough to vote for him again. He has already declared war on any repair needed to fix his last mess. If his voters were smart, they would recall this idiot, so our country can be mended. The Dems are the only ones, with less than 5 willing Rs trying to make our country and our people successful. The Rs will support FOREIGN AUTO Industries, even though the taxpayers paid Billions and Billions of dollars to build them in the first place (bet you didn't know that) who are subsidized by their own countries; but will NOT HELP AMERICAN AUTO Companies, who built themselves up on their own dime, not the taxpayers'. How much more treasonous can they be? Republicants hate American People, face it. They are interested only in Big Business, because that is where the money is. The people who put these moronic Rs in office are not the interest of their Senators, except at election time. They are master liars, cheats, theives, and can't even win an election honestly. They will do all they can to stop progress. They already are in need of working this week-end because of the filibustering and blocking they are already doing in the Senate. If ever American people needed help from our Government, it is now. Some of us are being well served by our Senators, others are being sabataged by their Senators, especially the ones from the Southern states. Every single person in America should check on your Senator's voting record at least once a week. See what they blocked, what they voted for, and who they voted against. C-Span is just one of the sites you can check their voting records. Find out if your Senator is working FOR you or AGAINST you. Just before they went to recess in August, the Rs stood up and told everyone that "our country is broke, there is no money"; then less than a week later voted to give $700 Billion dollars to the banks! Broke? Liars? The Rs had blocks on 32 pieces of Legislation at that time. Things that would help American people. Too bad the Rs hate us so much, we could have been much better off already. The Senate is on C-Span2; the House is on C-Span; you can watch your Senators in action for yourself. Those with R Senators will be furious to see how much they are against the American People.

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» RE: Barbara, Michigan Posted by: rsinvestor
Wait a second...
Posted by: daniel1982 on Jan 8, 2009 4:02 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Opposing a trillion dollar stimulus paid with money we don't have, while running trillion dollar deficits, is now a bad thing?

....

Ok, got it. Democrats good, Republicans bad.

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Ignorance is Bliss
Posted by: JEFFDUBE on Jan 8, 2009 4:50 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is about the destruction of our children you nut not politics..get a life you mental miget.Is politics your only life? Your kids will be suffering 100 years after your dead, thanks to people like you.

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Our End is Near
Posted by: JEFFDUBE on Jan 8, 2009 4:58 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You will be a welfare recipient shortly my friend...You will love Muslem rule...no politics anymore! Just dead Americans. Seriously..wake up.Show us you have a backbone.
Tell your kids thanks for paying your bills for the next 100 years.

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STRONG IMPACT SPEECH ***
Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Jan 8, 2009 6:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He did well today. I was proud again. He told the truth, and did not sugar coat a thing. BRAVO! President Barrack OBAMA!

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» RE: STRONG IMPACT SPEECH *** Posted by: VZEQICVA
CONGRESS GET OFF YOUR ASS AND GET THIS LEGISLATION PASSED* WE DON'T NEED A 2ND DEPRESSION!!
Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Jan 8, 2009 7:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, as each day passes, it looks more and more like history is repeating itself, and it started with the collapse of Bear Sterns, and Goldman Sachs in April 2008. It really began in Dec 2007, but the Bush Boys kept silent for a year, until they were forced to reveal that tidbit just this past Nov-2008. Prior to this, they were telling us " Don't worry, Be Happy, things are fine." They weren't fine. They lied.

If unemployment goes into the double digits, we are heading for the beginnings of a full fledged 2nd Great Depression. Of course they won't admit that until we've seen soup lines for seven to ten months spreading nation wide along with the spread of Tent Cities..increased homeless and school closings because of no money... (I just heard today that one school in California is asking parents to supply them TOILET PAPER), YES, TOILET PAPER, can you believe that?

I just heard tonight, or thought I heard that there are 20,000 more store chains and retailers expected to close its doors, not file bankrupt but disappear... Macy's is closing 11 stores... and GOODY's closing all of their stores nationwide. Circuit City is closing all their stores nationwide. Home Depot is closing a number of stores. This is as real as it gets folks. Serious! The list grows by the day. Once these severe signs begin and spread and should they continue, then the government might ADMIT the real status of the nation and call the condition what it truly is....or has become, and please understand, I hope to GOD in heaven it never comes to that... I hope I am wrong, and hope it gets fixed before it gets that far gone.

ATTENTION NEOCONS AND REPUBS: It doesn't matter whether it is a trillion or a gillion. When President OBAMA takes office 10 days from now, before he walks into the oval office the defict DEBT already stands now at over a TRILLION DOLLARS. So don't get goofey, stupid, rabid, or lame-brained about it... We have to get this transfusion started in order to keep the nation alive and beating first. The after-care comes later. So, get over yourself neocons!! Stop the Hate & Stupidity! Stop the Division Tactics!

The language they are using has recently changed from just a Recession to be called a "Deep Repression" and President OBAMA's speech TODAY alluded to that and things are already serious, stating we may not be able to reverse the affects if Congress doesn't get off its ass and get the legislation signed and DONE!
WORK WITH THE MAN, PASS THE PLAN AND LET"S GET THE NATION ON TRACK!!

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SUPPORT PRESIDENT BARRACK OBAMA!!! THE DEFICIT IS ALREADY OVER A TRILLION $ BUSHIE BOY SAW TO THAT!
Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Jan 8, 2009 7:34 PM   
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Support President Barrack OBAMA, urge Congress to pass his Stimulus Package. Stop the Stupid Stuff and Support this man and his plan. Avoid lopping us into a full fledged 2nd Greatest Depression. We can not afford this... so the Trillion or the Grillion defict dollars are a mute point!

Before President OBAMA takes office 10 days from now, the deficit that Bushie Boy and his greed-eating cronies left is already over a TRILLION DOLLARS... SO GET OVER IT!!!

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Opposition to the stimulus should be bipartisan
Posted by: CUnknown on Jan 8, 2009 11:27 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any thinking person who wants to prevent the country from being destroyed should be against the stimulus package. This is madness.. sheer madness.

The national debt has always worried me. I used to think that our children would have to bear the burden for our reckless spending. But with all these bailouts and stimulus packages and tax cuts, the government won't even be around when our children grow up. The dollar will have already collapsed, and they won't owe a thing. We're going to have to bear the burden in this generation, and it's not going to be pretty. Not if the Bushes and Obamas of the world have their way..

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You should be ashamed.
Posted by: rickiey on Jan 9, 2009 11:56 AM   
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Republicans Fight Obama's Stimulus Plan, Fearing Its Success Will Mean Years of Political Oblivion

Look at that title for a minute. So you are suggesting that republicans, almost half the country, want the world to be in worse shape than it is now, merely so that their guy will be more likely to be elected?

While that headline might be true of a few of the republican "leaders", it is certainly not true of the actual PEOPLE who form the republican party.

Many of my friends are republicans, and most of them voted for Obama. Republicans are not the right-wing zealots you label them. And many of them who DO disagree with this stimulous package, do so because they don't think it is best for the country. And if it goes through, they will hope they were wrong.

I think they are wrong, but I think it is absolutely horrible of you to label an entire half of our country as those who want to ruin our country for their own purposes.

Rush Limbaugh does that every day. Congratulations, you've reached the Rush Limbaugh level of idiocy.

Stereotyping and labeling opponnents, is always a bad idea, and an embarassment. I'm glad our future President doesn't stick to the level of divisiveness that you do.

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» RE: You should be ashamed. Posted by: VZEQICVA
Ok, Here's The Deal...
Posted by: cherylholmes on Jan 10, 2009 10:39 AM   
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This is what I've extracted from all the Obama rhetoric...

Obama's Economic Stimulus means, give money to plants and companies to "invest" in equipment, building, machinery necessary to make more of whatever it is they are already making...what we called "plant and equipment in the 80's." This may also include subsidizing wages if plants/companies hire new workers....like the 80's.

The $500.00 per individual and $1000.00 per family is NOT cash in your pocket like the stimulus check was..instead, it is making that amount of your earned income not taxable on your income tax retuen. So, if you make $50,000 per year and you are a family, you'd only pay taxes on $49,000.00. THAT DOES NOTHING TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY! IF WE CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY ANYTHING, COMPANIES WILL NOT INVEST IN PLANT AND EQUIPMENT, OR HIRE ANYONE BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO SELL THEIR GOODS AND SERVICES....translated means, they will not be making money at all! This would mean more layoffs despite giving them TAX DOLLARS as part of a stimulus...sounds like another round about way to bail out the rich to me...and screw the little guy a bit more.

If consumers have no money to spend...and job losses will only continue to worsen the problems...then NO business will remain IN business. Eventually everything will shutdown...EVERYTHING.

From most of what I see of his cabinet appointments, nothing is going to change from the Bush years. I would think in opposites and try to decipher the doublespeak we're still getting from him and his people.

We're well on the way to becoming a third world nation folks...

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rsinvestor
Posted by: rsinvestor on Feb 1, 2009 11:43 AM   
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The bailout will fail. Americans need to educate themselves on basic economic principles in order to lead the U.S. out of this recession.

FACT #1: A country's wealth does not come from FULL EMPLOYMENT. If so, we could put the entire population to work digging holes in the Mojave Desert. To maximize our country's wealth, we must have FULL PRODUCTION, not FULL EMPLOYMENT.

FACT #2: Government does not create wealth. In fact, it is government that is strangling American enterprise. By creating more government jobs, we simply suck more resources into the UNPRODUCTIVE government sector, and rob the PRODUCTIVE private sector.

FACT #3: We won't have wealth unless we produce something we can sell to others, and we can't sell government regulators,or bureaucrats. CONSIDER THIS SIMPLE EXAMPLE: Imagine you live in a small town that has ten families, and that all ten are farmers. This hypothetical town would produce more food than it could consume; export its excess, & use the proceeds to buy horses, or luxuries. NOW, suppose 9 of 10 farmers shut down his farm and accepted jobs working for government as regulators, administrators, tax collectors, and inspectors. Two things would happen. First, the only remaining farmer would be unable to feed the entire town; and second; the town would have nothing of value to sell, and no longer have $$ to buy luxuries. If we want wealth, we must produce things that other countries will buy.

FACT #4: The U.S. is losing its industrial base. This sector produces the goods that can actually be sold & exported to others. Naive critics claim this is because business is greedy and labor is cheaper overseas, but this is not the procuring reason. The fact is that the U.S. and State Government, has created an extremely hostile work environment for U.S. businesses. Businesses go overseas to escape the punitive environment created by our government. We are being crushed by hostile regulation by the EPA; Statutory Employment Taxes; a litigious judicial system; and a plethora of other hostile government agencies. Running a business in America is like running a race while knee-deep in molasses. If we want jobs and wealth, we must reduce government interference.

FACT #5: Our economic problems are not a failure of capitalism, they are a failure of government, created by government interference with private capital markets. Our banks made crappy loans to unqualified borrowers because of government requirements forced onto banks under threat of redlining prosecution. In 1995, FANNIE and FREDDIE set goals, at the behest of liberals to ensure that 52% of all loans during the next ten years went to minorities & low income borrowers. This was accomplished by forcing banks to throw away all traditional underwriting standards (including credit scores). Government interference caused this collapse.

FACT #6: Taxes are already confiscatory and discourage individual initiative and destroy businesses. A small business person that pays him/herself an $80,000 /yr salary. Total taxes consist of: (a) 15.3% Self Employment Taxes; (b) 30% Fed Taxes; & (c) 9% State/Local Taxes. TOTAL TAX RATE: 54.3% If we want more initiative & jobs, we MUST lower tax rates.

FACT #7: Making government bigger simply adds to the problem. The only way to increase the wealth of the U.S. is to (a) Create a friendly business and legal environment that encourages production; and (b) shift more labor & capital resources away from government & into the productive private sector. A bailout that grows government will decrease our nation's wealth. PERIOD.

Its time to educate the American public on these solid and simple principles. Without knowledge, foolish people with foolish programs will prevail.

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