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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

The End of American Capitalism? 5 Short Takes on Where the Financial Crisis Might Be Headed

Al Jazeera. Posted October 7, 2008.


Five prominent economists share their thoughts on what's happening and how bad the situation really is.
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The past week has seen the US economy rocked by some of the worst global financial turmoil in decades, with venerable firms collapsing, global banks and governments pouring huge sums of money into financial markets in a bid to ease turmoil and thousands facing unemployment or financial ruin. 

As US officials announce planned measures to tackle the crisis, Al Jazeera asked five prominent economists: Does the crisis signal the end of US-style capitalism? And if so, what are the lessons learned?

James Galbraith, economist, professor at University of Texas, Austin

This does not mean the end of the United States' position in the world economy.

The US dollar has not moved, which does suggest that the position of the US government is still very much intact.

I think what it means is that in the future the big firms will have a smaller presence.

The years when the US government took the position that financial firms can run the country as they see fit and that regulation could be dismised is finished. There will be a major examination of how the financial markets are regulated.

Such financial events will have a lagged effect on everyone ... its most likely consequence is that the credit crisis will get more intense and the foreclosure crisis will get worse.

We will have to wait and see. But people do not learn from mistakes. How many times do we have to go through this?

'Enormous mess'

A well-functioning financial system has rules and it's when the rules are relaxed that shady practices and get rich quick schemes abound, which is what happened in the [sub-prime] mortgage system in 2005 and 2006.

The banks' behavior was conditioned by Bush. [He] sent a clear signal that they could get away with everything, [that there was] no more effective supervision so go ahead and make toxic loans, we won't stop you, then everyone made a bundle and left an enormous mess.

The evolution of good conduct is defined by effective rules. John McCain [the Republican presidential candidate] lectures on the morals of Wall Street but they are no more or less corrupt than other humans.

A full recovery will only begin with a new administration with a different philosophy seriously committed to ... bringing in new people, giving them adequate resources and the legal authority.

I would argue it is impossible for McCain to do it. Even if he is a genuine convert to prudent regulation which he has opposed thoughout his career, who would believe it?

He has been an enabler of the most speculative elements of banking system.

I think Barack Obama [Democratic presidential candidate] appreciates the severity of the issue and has the judicious temperament.

This is not a job for zealots or revolutionaries, it's for serious people to build institutions that can last for a long time. 

Gerald Friedman, economics professor, University of Massachusetts

The end of US capitalism? I really doubt it. 

This is a very serious financial crisis and if mishandled could become a serious recession even a depression, but it is unlikely to be as bad as the Great Depression of 1929-40 as the authorities have learned to co-operate in crises.

More importantly, a capitalist system - or any social system - can only be brought down by an opposing system supported by a rising economic class. 

There is no such contender on the horizon right now to challenge capitalism. So, we'll continue to muddle along.

Still, it will be bad all around unless we change direction. An effective anti-depression strategy would help those with bad mortgages so that they will be able to make payments on their mortgages and keep their houses; such a policy would help the banks by allowing for a "trickle-up" effect.

Instead, the Federal Reserve is trying to hold back the tide of defaults and foreclosures by helping the top. 

At best, this will transfer the costs to average Americans, who lose their homes, watch their neighbours lose their homes, and will in many cases lose jobs when construction and other businesses fail.

Foreigners will be hurt too because many banks and other financial institutions outside the US have invested heavily in US securities including mortgages and stocks and bonds in US investment banks. 

Helping the people

We need a trickle-up strategy: Help the financial barons by helping the people.


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First, What is American Capitalism?
Posted by: mmckinl on Oct 7, 2008 12:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Certainly we are in what the Marxists are calling the end stage of capitalism.

How do we know this ? Because our public, private and corporate debt are 350% of GDP ... This is a staggering debt never before seen in history ... ever. There is no way to pay down or even service the interest on this amount. The United States is basically insolvent and given the demands of the Baby Boomers in the coming years the situation cannot be sustained.

Yes, parasitic Financial and demagogic Military Industrial Congressional Complex capitalism are dying if not dead.

What is important is how the current credit freeze is handled.

Handled properly, cleaning up the banking sector with a bank holiday and re-regulation will give the US a fresh if diminished start to a new economy. A reformulation of the economy can work.

Handled badly, as is now the case, it will crash the economy and lead to years of recession and
a severely crippled economy going forward. This will probably lead us to either a totalitarian state or a third world economy ...

We are teetering on the edge of the abyss right now and the economists cited have a case of severe optimism regarding our true economic situation.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Locked in the box
Posted by: nzo on Oct 7, 2008 1:12 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cannot believe how locked in the box most Americans are! For years you've been conditioned to live in little boxes, with your car, your garage, your TV, your fridge, your washing machine, your....

You rarely, if ever, consider the tremendous benefits and cost-effectiveness of creating communities of say 40 houses per street in size. By pooling resources you would have nearly everything you have now and you would accrue skills, technology and support that will leave divisive corporations and politicians in the dust.

Communities will give you a chance, a possibility beyond the shambles you've been (and keep getting) thrown into by the neo-cons and greed.

The purpose of life is to co-operate and as long as you continue the me, me, me mindset you'll go on repeating the foolishness you have now.

Your choice. Choose while you still can.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Locked in the box Posted by: sureshot45
» RE: Locked in the box Posted by: Katie Marie
» It's Time For Peaceful Action Posted by: Last Chance
» Quite so Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Quite so Posted by: bornxeyed
» Cooperation Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: Cooperation Posted by: Spot
» People vs. Tribes Posted by: pdxjoe
» There is no "versus" Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Cooperation Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Cooperation Posted by: Last Chance
» Why Not? Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: Why Not? Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Cooperation Posted by: bornxeyed
» Clearly... Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: Locked in the box Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Locked in the box Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Locked in the box Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Locked in the box Posted by: Last Chance
» Nobody stereotyped nzo Posted by: Last Chance
» Out of the Box Posted by: LeaderofMen
» In case you hadn't heard, Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Locked in the box Posted by: anechoic
» RE: Locked in the box Posted by: racetoinfinity
» Escape the Box Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: scape the Box Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Locked in the box Posted by: bornxeyed
ex rel: George W. Bush
Posted by: Direct Democracy on Oct 7, 2008 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The blame game is how criminals are caught and punished.

Look back.

Place blame.

FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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» AND HANG BUSH!! Posted by: donl51
» RE: AND HANG BUSH!! Posted by: Spot
» HANG BUSH!! Posted by: Animal
1907 Banker's Panic, 100 years later - crash the market, consolidate power: Robber Barons.
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Oct 7, 2008 3:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rule #1: Never believe anything that any modern economist says. The field is a joke - their prediction and models are useless. For example, recall how NAFTA was supposed to raise the salaries of Mexican AND American workers? That was what their "econometric models" said.

Modern economics is in fact mostly propaganda - the founding of the Chicago school of economics by Rockefeller, the promotion of Friedman, and the subsequent invention of the "Nobel Prize in Economics" all being leading examples.

The Nobel Prize in economics should be abolished, plain and simple. This is also what Nobel would have wanted:

Now, in an exclusive interview with me, Peter Nobel, Alfred Nobel’s descendent, emphasized that “there is no mention in the letters of Alfred Nobel that he would appreciate a prize for economics. The Swedish Riksbank, like a cuckoo, has placed its egg in another very decent bird’s nest. What the Bank did was akin to trademark infringement – unacceptably robbing the real Nobel Prizes.” Nobel added, “Two thirds of these prizes in economics have gone to US economists, particularly of the Chicago School – to people speculating in stock markets and options. These have nothing to do with Alfred Nobel’s goal of improving the human condition and our survival – indeed they are the exact opposite. - hazelhenderson.com

Now, every rule has exceptions, and there is probably at least one economist worth listening to in terms of how this will unfold: Joseph Stiglitz, a mainstream economic Nobelite, but we won't hold that against him, as long as he keeps up his critical analysis, such as this:

JOSEPH STIGLITZ: Very much so. You know, we got into this problem, apparently because we did not have effective enforcement of antitrust policies, and we wound up with institutions that were too big to fail...

...but when the losses come up, they know that we’re going to bail them out, which we are in the process of doing. So, this is predictable...

...Already, the financial sector has been accused, and I think correctly, of engaging in non-competitive practices. And you see it in the credit card fees, which are far above competitive—equilibrium levels. That’s why they, you know, have been able to generate such profits from a very simple technology....

...Now you have this additional concentration, the risk of this non-competitive behavior just increases all the more...


What he doesn't discuss is the blatant criminality involved in all this. It appears that some of players (JP Morgan) involved attempted to precipitate a crash by deliberately pulling credit out of the market. See timesonline.co.uk

We should all be paying very close attention to who acquires what - and we need new antitrust legislation as well.

The historical example here is not the Great Depression - it is the 1907 Banker's Panic that was used by the robber barons to consolidate their grip on the U.S. financial system: www.democraticunderground.com

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jump you bastards, jump
Posted by: blogoffanddie on Oct 7, 2008 3:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Brother can you spare $700 Billion?

it’s not really a money problem, it’s a problem of ethical and honest brokering.

http://blogoffanddie.wordpress.com
http://theimpolitecanadian.wordpress.com/

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies."
Groucho Marx

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» RE: jump you bastards, jump Posted by: donl51
Predictions Say This Was Planned
Posted by: billslm on Oct 7, 2008 4:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you look on Youtube you might be struck by the number of videos which, as far back as 2007, began making dire predictions of economic crisis and collapse in late September of '08. These were regarded as more than a little paranoid at the time and at best worth an indulgent chuckle. By the time I saw the third video which had predicted correctly, I began to understand that this was all carefully planned.

Bush may be leaving the White House, but he is throwing all the crystal and the china against the wall on his way out.

I don't trust Bush.

He is bringing the troops back to these shores for maneuvers in the streets of the major cities. Oh, yes; they will be riding in tanks.

Hmmm.

Why?

Some time back, Bush deliberately suspended posse comitatus, an old law which says that you cannot use any part of the US Armed forces as a police force against the citizens. Nobody was paying much attention at the moment when he suspended it.

Using the United States Army to contain a citizen uprising? Or as the proaganda says, just harmless training--- Hey! Maybe they just want to protect us all against a new terrorist attack?

I doubt it.

Some of those predictive videos on Youtube are very persuasive. Especially the ones which have already been right on the money.

There is another possibility: It's almost unthinkable, but could there be a plan for another false flag inside job, like 9/11?

Between the volunteer army and the much larger number of murderous, adrenalin junky/ private contractors--- Bush and Cheney's very own private army, my thought is, and it is really not my thought, you can find it all over the Net: they intend a coup d'etat and to completely subdue a helpless population, the greater preponderance of which is grossly obese, and advanced in age.

And worse, very submissive.

Submissiveness is the flip side of the people who put Bush in office eight years ago--- very authoritarian. They love to have somebody bark orders at them. They think really nasty guys, who can lift his upper lip in a sneer of command, are terrific--- and they think nice guys, like Obama, are wimps. Certainly, some of the decent soldiers will drop out or simply disobey when it comes to firing on private citizens.

But many still defend Bush and Cheney. They are submissive authoritarians and they want an oppressive dictatorship in the worst way.

Like the man said: Between the government and Wall Street you are being robbed blind---Where is the OUTRAGE?!

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» There is something you can do Posted by: Last Chance
who are these people?
Posted by: annm on Oct 7, 2008 4:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we've all heard these names but to me the comments of these 5 economists lack credibility.

i predict that in 5 yrs time we will see these comments as laughable!!

there is none so blind as those who don't want to see.

peace

annm

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» RE: who are these people? Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: who are these people? Posted by: anechoic
John McCain = Keating+ Gramm/ Enron +Iraq= Treason
Posted by: Purple Girl on Oct 7, 2008 4:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John McCain is not only got this 'Deregualtion' mantra (reckless Endangerment) to answer for, He has the Other Factors to our economic instability to answer for.
McCain was the Biggest Cheerleader, lending his 'credentials' to the Fraudulant Iraqi Invasion (anthrax), which is sucking 10 billion a month out of this near dead corpse called US!
His 'Surge' was Nothing more than fixing a major Fuck up by this admin who failed to even follow their Own Sec of States Engagement Stratedgy- The Powell Doctrine (Overwhelming Force).So He can stop patting himself on the back- He only was finally able to override Rummy's Dangerously Drunken Bravado when it came to supplying adequate Troops numbers & Equipment.
Add to that the fact that the 'Surge' has had a direct Adverse Effect on our Economic Security- Diggging further into Debt with some rather nefarious Foreign Nations- The PURGE! Saudi's Had the Most number of 'Son's' in 9/11 Attacks, and China who not only is trying to poison our Food, but also our kids toys and even Rover!!!
Perhaps this could be seen as a Noble act- except the FACT John McCain has Stole from the POOR to GIVE TO THE RICH!!
What jobs have been created to take on this 2 Front War,Even Since the Surge? What industries have contributed to the national Effort and thus created (or at least maintained) Jobs? What industries have shown RECORD Earnings and Profit margins throughout thus able to increase their worker force THUS greasing the wheels of their 'Trickle Down' ????Nothing We have gotten no typical 'Enlistment' into the Effort, we have infact been PUSHED OUT of any such industrial contributions..And So our jobs, Our homes, Our savings, our futures have gone with it!
And AGAIN McCain expects US to foot his 'Let the Shit Roll Down Hill 'buddies Gambling Debts? We've Seen John's Movie Before, but now it's the Directors Extended Cut!With Phil Gramm standing behind his Right Shoulder is Evidential Enough to Pass Judgement that Sen McCain Has been intrical in Undermining America for a very LONG Time! He's not only had a hand in reducing the money coming in But jacking Up the Money Going Out!!!!As Assuredly as DICK Cheney is responsible for Undermining every aspect of American Rights and Freedoms..John McCain is responsible for Double Kneecapping US-Deregulation and Illegitmate War.Sounds Like a Rackette to Me. I call these Both HIGH CRIMES AGAINST THE STATE!!

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Sad
Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 7, 2008 5:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think a lot will depend on who wins the election. If McBush wins, Main Street America is screwed in every sense of the word. Obama on the other hand seems to have some pretty good ideas but the question is WILL he follow through with any of them or will he be like past presidents and just providing "lip service" to con the sheeple. We'll see!

Online PRivacy when it Counts

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» RE: Sad Posted by: nochicagoboys
» Extremely Dangerous Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: xtremely Dangerous Posted by: nochicagoboys
» A Peaceful Solution Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: A Peaceful Solution Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: A Peaceful Solution Posted by: racetoinfinity
» IF there's any money LEFT! Posted by: GrannyBgood
» The people remain, dollars or not Posted by: Last Chance
Actually, the USA has never really been Capitalist because ...
Posted by: harryf200 on Oct 7, 2008 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... it has always stood against free World trade and used its own "protectionist" policies to stop many (not all) cheap imports.

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Time To Try Something New
Posted by: popeurbanxxiii on Oct 7, 2008 6:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Supply Side Economics", i.e. "Reaganomics" is dead. Our moral authority to preach to other nations the glory of "Global Free Trade" is totally void.

Unfettered capitalism has created what it always does; economic collapse. Time and again, capitalism has to be rescued from it's inherent excesses. Our parents knew this lesson well, having lived through the Great Depression.

Not only do we need to put back into place most of the repealed New Deal regulations on banks -- with updates that take into account our changed world and improved technology -- but we must also bring the hedge funds under control. "Too Big to Fail" is a policy that needs to be scrapped. The moral hazard here is obvious. That's the reason why we used to enforce the Anti-Trust laws (which are still on the books). We need vigorous anti-trust actions against any and all institutions deemed "Too Big to Fail".

And finally, we need to prop up the demand side of the equation. If people had the money to pay their debts, this credit crisis would be non-existant. Realty Trac and other sources state that since the forclosure crisis began in about 2006 some 2,200,000 homes have been served with forclosure notices. The money we have thrown at the financial service industry would have wiped out all of these forclosures and left us with a few hundred billion left over.

Clearly, we are focussing on the wrong end of the problem. People can't repay credit they cannot afford. We need to put more money into household accounts instead of reserve accounts for banks. If people can't repay the loans, the banks will not loan the money. They will simply hoard it. Banks don't even trust each others' ability to repay.

I'm not sure this quote can be attributed to Jim Hightower, but he uses it a lot; "We all do better when we all do better". We need to share the prosperity. There is nothing inevitable about "Supply Side Economics", "Reaganomics", or "Global Free Trade". These are political decisions and not the "invisible hand" of the market. Governments create and regulate markets.

"Market Fundamentalism" is about as believable as the "Heaven's Gate" cult in hindsight. What were we thinking, putting these hucksters and shysters in charge?

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the truest thing ever written about economic systems
Posted by: smendler on Oct 7, 2008 6:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the Russians used to say:

"What's the difference between capitalism and communism? Simple --

Under capitalism, man exploits man.

Under communism, it's the other way around."

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It's the BALANCE, stupid
Posted by: smendler on Oct 7, 2008 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Government is not the solution.

But neither is the market.

The solution, if there is one, can be found in identifying, establishing and maintaining the correct balance between market and government - or more correctly, between market, government, and the populace. Give too much power to one or the other, and corruption and oppression are the results.

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When will we learn!?!?!?!?!?
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Oct 7, 2008 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First we need to remember there is no such thing as a "free ride", some one is always taken and in this case it is we the people!

Economics as much as those people would like too, cannot be modeled, or made to fit some mathematical equation! Why, both money and people are involved! While I'd like to believe in the better angels in our (human) nature, the realist side of me recognizes that where money is involved greed will get the better! I'm not pessimistic, I just don't see anyone, I repeat anyone flying around on wings like they are the Archangel Michael!

These people need rules and regulations! Hey, before you get your license you have to learn the rules and regulations, so when you're handling other peoples money you need greater rules and regulations, why because this is what happens when we forget the lessons of the past!

FDR during the depression established rules and regulations because he knew that they were needed to not only hold people accountable, but to ensure that everyone had faith in the U.S. government to work for everyone! Since the Reagan era we the people have been fed a mantra of "big government is bad", and since the voting populace has been led to believe "popularity" is what's important about a president- we have put incompetent, un-knowledgeable, quixotic, and generally overall true elitists that really have had disdain for the working American! They have used a disturbed ideology to promote policies that have harmed working Americans, as the recent collapse of Wall Street, even as they have bestowed the richest 1%!

The have betrayed not just the oaths of the offices that they occupy, but they have betrayed every American with their treasonous behavior!

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» RE: When will we learn!?!?!?!?!? Posted by: popeurbanxxiii
Why NOT Socialism?
Posted by: GrannyBgood on Oct 7, 2008 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is Socialism STILL a dirty word in the dumbed-down American vocabulary?
Have people finally been ripped off enough to re-think this idea that all life revolves around their near-holy "Stuff" and its acquisition ?
Are we to sit quietly on our hands after this mega-theft and allow them to tell us that 80 Billion for National Healthcare is "Too expensive"?
I predict that, especially if we do NOT wrest this government away from the Neocons a la McSAME and Palin, our economy will get so busted down that people will HAVE to re-establish smaller tight-knit Communities, for trading, sharing resources and costs, and possibly even defense. Those with nothing to offer or share, or just plain unsociable or dangerous people, will be left out in the cold, no doubt to form their own "support Groups".
Government is good for nothing so much as PROTECTING its people; when it ceases to do that, or actually harms them, as we're starting to see now, it's time for a revolution, and that can only start from the ground up, which is where they're pushing us down to.
Trade and share whenever possible; labor and goods, use as little money as possible, especially on credit, refuse to pay taxes, since they've already taken our money and jobs, and get to know your neighbors better. WE the people are all we have anymore , the us in US.

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» RE: Why NOT Socialism? Posted by: MamaPantz
» Marx vindicated!! Posted by: zooeyhall
» Marx discredited. Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Communities, for trading, Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Why NOT Socialism? Posted by: anechoic
» RE: Why NOT Socialism? Posted by: Last Chance
» Scandanavia Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: Scandanavia Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Why NOT Socialism? Posted by: babs
Socialism for Wall $treet, RIGGED faux "capitalism" for Main Street. That's all it was all about !
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 7, 2008 7:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nail the motherfuckers on Wall $treet on that truth and Main Street wins. Otherwise, TO HELL WITH THIS COUNTRY AND GOD WILL CONTINUE TO SEVERELY PUNISH THE USA TO ETERNAL DAMNATION !! Sorry to sound like a mad man but either we're gonna step up to the plate or keep losing.

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Um...shouldn't the
Posted by: jvaljon1 on Oct 7, 2008 7:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'author' of the article be al Jazeera? Instead of how you wrote it, someone named Al whose last name happens to be, Jazeera?

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» RE: Um...shouldn't the Posted by: VZEQICVA
One important word that they didn't use
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Oct 7, 2008 7:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And that word is DEPRESSION!

The greatest Depression in US history is upon us, predicted by the theory considered an urban legend by main stream economists (who couldn't predict yesterday's weather).

The theory is the Kondratiev cycle or wave. Every 40 to 60 years the US has a Depression. We are now overdue, with the Depression pushed off with Fed interest rate policy that created a housing bubble. Now the Depression will be substantially worse than it would have been without Fed meddling.

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Can sustainable cities save the planet?
Posted by: practical idealist on Oct 7, 2008 7:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A better question is, can they save the United States? Check out "Can Sustainable Cities Save The Planet" on the internet. Desparate times call for bold solutions.

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