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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

Bailout Passes Senate; 9 Reasons That's Bad News for You

By Sen. Bernie Sanders, Huffington Post. Posted October 1, 2008.


Forcing each American to fork over $2,200 at a time when median family income has declined by as much is no way to improve the economy.

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This country faces many serious problems in the financial market, in the stock market, in our economy. We must act, but we must act in a way that improves the situation. We can do better than the legislation now before Congress.

This bill does not effectively address the issue of what the taxpayers of our country will actually own after they invest hundreds of billions of dollars in toxic assets. This bill does not effectively address the issue of oversight because the oversight board members have all been hand picked by the Bush administration. This bill does not effectively deal with the issue of foreclosures and addressing that very serious issue, which is impacting millions of low- and moderate-income Americans in the aggressive, effective way that we should be. This bill does not effectively deal with the issue of executive compensation and golden parachutes. Under this bill, the CEOs and the Wall Street insiders will still, with a little bit of imagination, continue to make out like bandits.

This bill does not deal at all with how we got into this crisis in the first place and the need to undo the deregulatory fervor which created trillions of dollars in complicated and unregulated financial instruments such as credit default swaps and hedge funds. This bill does not address the issue that has taken us to where we are today, the concept of too big to fail. In fact, within the last several weeks we have sat idly by and watched gigantic financial institutions like the Bank of America swallow up other gigantic financial institutions like Countrywide and Merrill Lynch. Well, who is going to bail out the Bank of America if it begins to fail? There is not one word about the issue of too big to fail in this legislation at a time when that problem is in fact becoming even more serious.

This bill does not deal with the absurdity of having the fox guarding the hen house. Maybe I'm the only person in America who thinks so, but I have a hard time understanding why we are giving $700 billion to the Secretary of the Treasury, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs, who along with other financial institutions, actually got us into this problem. Now, maybe I'm the only person in America who thinks that's a little bit weird, but that is what I think.

This bill does not address the major economic crisis we face: growing unemployment, low wages, the need to create decent-paying jobs, rebuilding our infrastructure and moving us to energy efficiency and sustainable energy.

There is one issue that is even more profound and more basic than everything else that I have mentioned, and that is if a bailout is needed, if taxpayer money must be placed at risk, whose money should it be? In other words, who should be paying for this bailout which has been caused by the greed and recklessness of Wall Street operatives who have made billions in recent years?

The American people are bitter. They are angry, and they are confused. Over the last seven and a half year, since George W. Bush has been President, 6 million Americans have slipped out of the middle class and are in poverty, and today working families are lining up at emergency food shelves in order to get the food they need to feed their families. Since President Bush has been in office, median family income for working-age families has declined by over $2,000. More than seven million Americans have lost their health insurance. Over four million have lost their pensions. Consumer debt has more than doubled. And foreclosures are the highest on record. Meanwhile, the cost of energy, food, health care, college and other basic necessities has soared.

While the middle class has declined under President Bush's reckless economic policies, the people on top have never had it so good. For the first seven years of Bush's tenure, the wealthiest 400 individuals in our country saw a $670 billion increase in their wealth, and at the end of 2007 owned over $1.5 trillion in wealth. That is just 400 families, a $670 billion increase in wealth since Bush has been in office.

In our country today, we have the most unequal distribution of income and wealth of any major country on earth, with the top 1 percent earning more income than the bottom 50 percent and the top 1 percent owning more wealth than the bottom 90 percent. We are living at a time when we have seen a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the very wealthiest people in this country, when, among others, CEOs of Wall Street firms received unbelievable amounts in bonuses, including $39 billion in bonuses in the year 2007 alone for just the five major investment houses. We have seen the incredible greed of the financial services industry manifested in the hundreds of millions of dollars they have spent on campaign contributions and lobbyists in order to deregulate their industry so that hedge funds and other unregulated financial institutions could flourish. We have seen them play with trillions and trillions dollars in esoteric financial instruments, in unregulated industries which no more than a handful of people even understand. We have seen the financial services industry charge 30 percent interest rates on credit card loans and tack on outrageous late fees and other costs to unsuspecting customers. We have seen them engaged in despicable predatory lending practices, taking advantage of the vulnerable and the uneducated. We have seen them send out billions of deceptive solicitations to almost every mailbox in America.


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For All The Good It Will Do You
Posted by: Direct Democracy on Oct 1, 2008 10:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CONTACT YOUR REPRESENTATIVES:

http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: turning off their emails Posted by: sasquuatch55
My Man Bernie
Posted by: NoPCZone on Oct 1, 2008 11:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Senator Sanders, you are a national treasure. I live in a state represented by two DLC (read Republicans with 'D' behind their title) Clintonistas. Even though I do not live in Vermont, I think of you and Russ Feingold as my Senators.
Keep up the great work. I just wish there were more like you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: My Man Bernie Posted by: kwalla
» RE: My Man Bernie Posted by: exasperated
» RE: My Man Bernie Posted by: bluebirdella
Alternative
Posted by: Jeanne on Oct 2, 2008 12:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is an alternative proposal out there from Rep DiFazio (OR) and others. The Senate hybrid (or bastard child) of the version the House rejected Monday does not meet the standards of benefiting the taxpayer. It should be rejected and Congress should take a deep breath and consider, debate, and design a plan that will be effective. There is not a need to pass it today, tomorrow, or the next day. Let experts examine the proposed bill(s) and give us an informed critique. "Measure twice, cut once."

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» RE: Alternative Posted by: kitty1967
Take Down the "Federal Reserve" Corp & Take back the Nation
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Oct 2, 2008 12:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A nation that doesn't own it's own money does NOT own ANYTHING that matters including its history, its government or its media.

To think any flavor of Wall Street rigged “bailout” will solve the economy and accountability for it much less what really counts at America owns the thought process of a fool. And a serial fool at that.

The FASCIST parasite corporate crime ruling class that created this bloody mess is literally banking on citizen sheep to stay home and let blood money BS swindler "experts" that sold them down the river to do it again.

If that happens, America is doomed and deserves to be.


“You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”
President Andrew Jackson (the 7th President publicly pledging to defeat international monopolist bankers to their face in his speech. Jackson was the last president to vanquish a global cartel in its plans for a privately owned “U.S.” central bank. Quote 1832)

“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson. History depicts Andrew Jackson as the last truly honorable and incorruptible American president.”
President FDR (on de facto Fascist rule in a letter to corporate monopoly charlatan “Colonel” Edward M. House, co-founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson. 11/21/ l933)

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» RE: Dishonorable Andrew Jackson Posted by: americansheep
» Honorable Andrew Jackson Posted by: PointMan
Since we're gonna spend $700,000,000,000 anyway
Posted by: daphrey on Oct 2, 2008 12:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we need to spend $700B on the financial sector, then why get only the bad? For that amount of money the pubilc could buy outright:

JP Morgan
Goldman Sachs
Bank of America
Citigroup

We'd still own the toxic waste, but we'd own the equity as well. Once the mess was cleared off we could make some money back by re-listing the companies.

Just another variant on why the current plan is such a stinker.

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» Thanks! Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Thanks! Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Thanks! Posted by: photon's feather
» Speaking of Bank Of America ... Posted by: TarryFaster
A Bailout for Foreigners ! Screwed by Goldman Sacks Again !
Posted by: mmckinl on Oct 2, 2008 12:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"For nearly a year, we have been asking ourselves why the investors and foreign banks that bought up hundreds of billions of dollars of worthless mortgage-backed securities (MBS) from US investment banks have not taken legal action against these same banks or initiated a boycott of US financial products to prevent more people from getting ripped off?

Now we know the answer. It's because, behind the scenes, Henry Paulson and Co. were working out a deal to dump the whole trillion dollar mess on the US taxpayer. That's what this whole $700 billion boondoggle is all about; wiping out the massive debts that were generated in the biggest incident of fraud in history. Rep Brad Sherman explained it like this last night to Larry Kudlow:

"It (The bill) provides hundreds of billions of dollars of bailouts to foreign investors."

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, we are paying for Wall Streets illegal sales of these toxic assets overseas.

Not One Dime!

Screwed by Goldman Sacks Again !

In case you haven't heard the CEO of Goldman was in the room when AIG got bailed out ... Why is this important ? That AIG bailout saved Goldman Sacks a cool 20 billion dollars. It only cost the tax payers 85 billion in loans.

Wall Street's Infinite Sleaze:

Keep calling Congress and tell them how you feel about paying hundreds of billions to Clean Up Wall Streets Crimes ...

Zip Code Link

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Let's get real
Posted by: georgiaorwell on Oct 2, 2008 1:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am deeply hopeful that the House will ultimately support Rep DiFasio's (Or) plan, supported by Dennis Kucinich and others who want to help bail out homeowners and the middle class - rather than Wall Street.

No matter how you spin it, the Senate plan sticks it to the middle class and is a 'top down' bail out (which they're spinning now as 'rescue'). I have been an Obama supporter, but I cannot and will not 'buy into' the crap that the Senate bail out plan is going to help everyday Americans because it does not. I would like to see Obama get behind the DiFasio proposal - it will show what he truly understands about the economy - same with McCain.

C'mon, folks, this is just some more political bull that's being promoted at the expense of taxpayers. I have definitely and irrevocably given up on the Senate Dems - you can't tell the difference between most of them and the Repugs. This is one time I admire the Repubs who have stood against the present bail out plans. Bottom line - if the present Senate bail out plan goes through, the Congressional Senators and Reps who support it should not be voted back into office.

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» RE: Let's get real Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: Let's get real Posted by: georgiaorwell
» RE: Let's get real Posted by: herronsmith
» RE: Let's get real Posted by: Ayuh!
» But Obama says it's OK Posted by: eeezzz
Please Post Information About the Vote and Contacting the No Voters
Posted by: Drume on Oct 2, 2008 3:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can someone please post information about when the House is and who we should contact to urge them to vote no?

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» From Thomas: Posted by: photon's feather
Make the Rich Pay
Posted by: rancespergl on Oct 2, 2008 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Make the rich pay.

I'm barely employed despite a college education and high skills.

The rich people owe it to us, the America that gave them their fortune.

MAKE THE RICH PAY.

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» RE: Make the Rich Pay Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: Make the Rich Pay Posted by: walldodger1969
» RE: Make the Rich Pay Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Make the Rich Pay Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Make the Rich Pay Posted by: Ethical1
Bend over, folks
Posted by: socialpsych on Oct 2, 2008 3:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The pirates are about to give it to us right up the wazoo.

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» RE: Bend over, folks Posted by: cellorelio
The Price To Pay...
Posted by: Godfather89 on Oct 2, 2008 3:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is only a price to pay, that when we focus more so on our recreation and entertainment sectors that we forget and become apathetic to the political climate. Kind of like falling asleep when we should have been awake! This is the price we must pay and we have two options: Continue to be apathetic citizens and not do anything about it or Abolish or Alter the current government yet again.

Its great to see most of the real Americans united against the bailout but you know what? This is only one of a few things America should be united behind.

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» RE: The Price To Pay... Posted by: HoboHomo
No Bail for the Wall Street Weasels
Posted by: whoopingcrone on Oct 2, 2008 4:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This old man, he buys one;
He sells knick-knacks ‘til they’re done
Chorus:
With a knick-knack, paddy whack,
Gives a bank a loan;
This old man comes rolling home.
This old man, he buys two;
He sells knick-knacks five to two
Chorus:
This old man, he buys three;
He sells knick-knacks from our trees
Chorus:
This old man comes rolling home.
This old man, he plays four;
Pastes his knick-knacks on our doors
Chorus:
This old man, he plays five;
His investments take a dive.
Chorus:
This old man, he plays six;
Knick-knacks nothing but a bunch of tricks.
Chorus:
This old man, he rolls seven;
He’ll play knick-knack on the way to heaven'
Chorus:

This old man, he plays eight;
Selling knick-knacks early and late.
Chorus:
This old man, he buys nine;
Sells his knick-knacks down the line
Chorus:
This old man, he buys ten;
Tries to knick-knack once again;
Stop his knick-knacks, paddy whacks,
Let him own his loans,
Then this old man can’t get your home.

NO BAIL 4 THE WALL STREET WEASELS.

see the go-with pics at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/digilager"

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We should be discussing the economy in local free assemblies
Posted by: Vic Fedorov on Oct 2, 2008 4:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We should be discussing the economy in local free assemblies.

Let the people discuss what makes sense to them, what they want from each other.

Our current economy is not meant to be, don't save it.

Too many people don't actually produce anything.
All those houses built approved by local officials, when local officials are neither state nor people, violated the tenth amendment's reservations of power for the state or the people.

Our founders intended for free assemblies as a form of local self-rule by the people. These free assemblies should discuss the economy. If you asked the people, they would say they don't like this economy.

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Bail-out Is a financial scam
Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Oct 2, 2008 4:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guess who the biggest campaign contributor to George W. Bush is? MBNA, a big credit card company. MBNA wrote the legislation that radically changed the bankruptcy laws in the US.
Predatory lending, which used to be the province of criminal loan sharks, is now the norm in the lending industry in the US.
Today's banking crisis is the THIRD trillion dollar plus US-caused financial meltdown in the last twenty years.
Each one of these crises came into being through the same basic mechanism...the fraudulent over-valuing of financial assets by Wall Street - with a "wink and a nod" (and sometimes a lot more) from the White House and Congress.
The fraudulently valued assets stimulate the economy, impart the illusion of health and then, inevitably, the fraud goes too far and the whole house of card comes painfully crashing back to earth.
Go to my website, www.911insidejob.net and read many articles and watch videos on the well planned takedown of the US dollar by the Bush White House and the Federal Reserve Bank.

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» FYI Posted by: TarryFaster
» RE: FYI Posted by: EncinoM
Is Bernie Sanders
Posted by: Erin on Oct 2, 2008 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only sound mind in the Senate??? They are going to fork over all this money to Paulson and let him have free rain, doing whatever he wants, because he will now be the decider. Let's just hope the House sends them another resounding NO!!!!

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Dictator Bush
Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 2, 2008 5:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a feeling that Dictator Bush has Congress in line now to pass this thing quickly. Thats hwo the new Regime rolls!

JIff
Online Privacy when it Counts

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So what
Posted by: solrev on Oct 2, 2008 5:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The purpose of the bailout is to prevent the financial infrastructure from collapsing, and ergo the global financial infrastructure. Good idea or bad idea and does this bailout do that? The purpose is not to fix the economy. If the infrastructure collapses there will be no economy to fix or the means to fix what is left. If the global financial structure breaks, the trillions in foreign debt will cause a run on America. We have two choices let China and Japan own your home, or declare bankruptcy and withdraw globally. We would probably not even have the resources to bring our military back home.

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Back to the days of welfare abuse!
Posted by: Karl.Ben on Oct 2, 2008 5:35 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The demorats will screw us again in this mess. Money for everyone, especially those that cant manage their own affairs.

Maybe I'l go buy a $1 million house and see if I can't get Pelosi to pay for it!

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Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
» RE: Gun down Pelosi please. Posted by: undrgrndgirl
Thank you for your vote, Senator Sanders, but...
Posted by: photon's feather on Oct 2, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why couldn't you have joined with a few others
(such as Feingold and Tester) and filibustered?

We needed more than 25 "No" votes.

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Look At All The Little Piggies, Living Piggy Lives...
Posted by: nochicagoboys on Oct 2, 2008 5:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Maybe I'm the only person in America who thinks so, but I have a hard time understanding why we are giving $700 billion to the Secretary of the Treasury, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs, who along with other financial institutions, actually got us into this problem."

No, Senator, you're most definitely not the only person in America who believes we're all being railroaded into oblivion. It's apparent to me that like the Bush administration, our legislative body, save for a few brave people like yourself, is a den of thieves. Thank you for all that you do, not only for your home state of Vermont, but for all of the citizens of these United States -- whether they're aware of it or not. You're a true patriot, Sir, and there are not enough like you.

AlterNet readers: For a good comprehensive look at how the vote in the Senate looked last night, view the map published in this morning's online New York Times. Put a name to a face, and then, all of us, e-mail or call the traitors who voted to push this bill full of pig shit, and let them know we're totally disappointed and disgusted with their sellout of the American people to the moneyed-elite of Wall Street.

Thank you, again, Senator Sanders.

And...thank you, John. You were an inspiration to millions. Your work applies more, now, than ever.

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» Excellent map! Posted by: ebishirl
» RE: excellent map! Posted by: nochicagoboys
Whose Money Was It In The First Place
Posted by: Nedtheredhead on Oct 2, 2008 5:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There seems to be some misconception that the money lost in the sub prime mortgage crisis, and the crisis that followed, was the investments of rich people from the 'wealthy end of (US) town' alone. The belief is that American taxpayer money is now being invested into the pockets of these wealthy Americans and that they will some how re roll the economy back to a level that will hopefully create economic stability.
Think again America.
The financial market is not inclusive to the US alone, the money that was spent in this debacle came from ALL SECTIONS OF THE GLOBE. The money that is being repaid by the US Government, taxpayer money, is to prevent INTERNATIONAL INVESTORS FROM WITHDRAWING THEIR INVESTMENTS AND CRASHING THE AMERICAN ECONOMY COMPLETELY.
If, as some suggest, the Congress defeats this bill, and little to no tax money is poured into save what is left of the US economy, it will get catastrophically worse. The invested money will be withdrawn by Europe, China, Russia, South East Asia, including Australia and New Zealand etc, and instead poured into another currency, probably the Euro, and other countries, such as China, Russia, India and Brazil.
Even if this bill gets passed and US taxpayer money is poured into save what can be saved, it will only serve to stabilise on the short term. Radical action will have to be taken to assure the big...overseas...investors that the US is a safe place to re invest in.
Look at the banks of other nations. Look at how they are tumbling. Look at how their Governments are topping them up to prevent them going to the wall. Do you really think those Governments will continue to support American investment without some serious changes to the way America has been fiscally trading till now?
This problem is not just big America, it is humongous.
I wish you well.

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» Fuck globalism Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: Fuck globalism Posted by: channing
» My thoughts exactly Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: My thoughts exactly Posted by: Spot
» RE: My thoughts exactly Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: My thoughts exactly Posted by: channing
» RE: My thoughts exactly Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: My thoughts exactly Posted by: channing
» RE: My thoughts exactly Posted by: Nedtheredhead
VOTE NO, DEMAND A NEW SOLUTION AND A FULL INVESTIGATION!
Posted by: Peter Mackrael on Oct 2, 2008 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the House meets today, the revised Paulson Bail-Out Legislation should not be accepted in any form. It is now up to $850bn! Tell your representative to vote NO because this bill will not solve the liquidity problem and it is just plain wrong to privatize profits while socializing losses. There are other solutions that do not require taxpayers to buy worthless debt paper from irresponsible investment bankers.

Recent bail-outs have already cost the US taxpayers about $700bn. In addition, the government recently provided $700bn to European banks with no effect on liquidity. If this bill is approved, these interventions will increase US debt to about $12 trillion. Foreign lenders now hold about 40% of US debt. This bill may reassure them for a short while until they see that US debt continues to increase while GDP declines. This bill may delay but will certainly not prevent a recession in the US. This bail-out program will severely limit spending on social programs for many years to come!

Instead of solving the liquidity crisis, this bill will transfer $700bn from the poorest 90% (working taxpayers) to enrich the wealthiest 10% who hold debt derivatives and shares in these investment banks. Which debt will we buy and at what piece? This will provide a grand opportunity for graft and fraud. It will be impossible to establish a fair value for this worthless debt paper but consulting fees will be huge. While this bill transfers public wealth to political friends of both parties in the Wall Street community, it does nothing to prevent further consolidation and restructuring by US banks. These banks will soon demand more!

Here is one obvious solution. The five big investment banks: Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley have recently morphed into regular banks. In effect, these investment banks have increased their asset base while transferring their bad debt assets to commercial banks. If these new banks require additional liquidity, existing regulations allow them sell assets to private investors to raise additional capital. In addition, they can borrow from the Fed, their lender of last resort. This liquidity emergency is exactly what the Fed was created for. If these banks are still unable to obtain enough liquidity to provide consumer loans and adequate operating capital to US businesses, then and only then should the federal government buy or establish a national bank for this purpose.

Meanwhile we need to re-establish and enforce investment banking regulations. Also we need an independent investigation to understand how and why the investment banks and government got us into this liquidity crisis so it can be prevented in future. It is possible that stock manipulation and outright fraud has been committed in recent months.

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Eat The Rich!
Posted by: TarryFaster on Oct 2, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By knowing, we are freed. Therefore, ignorance is just regret waiting to happen.

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8 Bush Years
Posted by: DrSuess on Oct 2, 2008 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first thought I had when I heard that it was all “Clinton’s fault” was- “where was Bush during all these years”. The conservatives have had a Republican in the white house for 8 years- why did the laws not change? There was a total Republican control during the first few years of Bush’s presidency- why did the laws not change?

The fact is the laws did change- for the worse. The rules of good sense went out with the governmental regulations designed to protect the “little people”. Businesses were given a free pass to do anything free of the fear of government regulators. Businesses did what they do best- make money. But it was in a soul less and stupid way.

By throwing away all the rules of common sense and traditional practice they destroyed their own market. Banks that lend money to people who cannot pay- deserve their fate. Why would anyone encourage people to lie on their applications?

However, the real problem was that the banks lent to people telling the truth- but structured the loans in a predatory way- so that there was no chance that the people could repay. Who can possibly ever repay a 30% interest credit card? The loan is structured to create perpetual debt. It is like the old song about owing “my soul the company store”.

I recently watched the movie “Amazing Grace” about the end to the slave trade in Great Britain. All the arguments for slavery were financial ones. Slavery was “good” business. It was very profitable. As I watched those arguments for slavery- I realized that slavery is good business- but it is not good social policy.

Under Bush we moved to a place where “good business” overrode good social policy- and now we have a colossal mess- even for the businesses.

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3 pages = 450 pages... $700 bil = $850 bil and climbing...
Posted by: ellie on Oct 2, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
started to read the mark up copy yesterday and got to page 10, realizing that this new version of the bailout bill doubles back on itself to cancel out any benefits to taxpayers one way or another... in fact, taxpayers can be hit for more money at any time without having to go back through congressional channels again, which closes off all avenues of dissent for the people... now onto the rest of the doc...

hey, one big question... when I was in grad school and had 450 pages to read overnight was totally out of it the next day and didn't remember 9/10th of what I slogged through... how does the average senator get that much read time and time to digest the ramifications for mark up in the first place???

bad bills make bad laws... this one is a whopper of band aids and innuendos... slow down congress, remember elections are right around the corner, or are the elections the reason to get this bill out for signing before regime change??? who is yanking who's chain with threats???

thanks senator sanders, you seem to be the only same one in house right now...

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the only decent man in the US Senate tells it like it is
Posted by: deborama on Oct 2, 2008 6:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again I am envious of my two sisters who live in Vermont and are represented by this fine Senator. May I add that just yesterday my son, who is a senior at the University of Vermont in Burlington, forwarded to me a letter from UVM's president stating that the school, along with about a thousand others, had its money invested in Wachovia and 90% of those funds have now been FROZEN, jeoparding the school's ability to disburse financial aid (on which my kid and most others depend) and to make payroll. This is really happening folks. If the billionaire bailout passes, the rich will stay rich and the rest of us will plunge even deeper into the morass. I say if we're going down, let's take the bastards who got us into this along for the ride.

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Thank you but it won't happen
Posted by: herronsmith on Oct 2, 2008 6:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can preach about injustice to the middle class all day long and it will fall on deaf ears. The powers that be don't give a rat's ass about the average citizen. That is obvious in the way they continue to rape and pillage us. This lame (duck) president has no incentive nor do the millionaire boys' club of Wall Street. There is only one way and that is to revolt. Sorry if this sounds drastic but what is even more drastic is our government jeopardizing my future. If the people don't get it together and stand together the gap will widen. Perhaps then the illegal immigrants will get fed up and do something since many citizens are "scared" into believing the sky will fall if we don't bailout wall street.

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Financing the Neocon Police State
Posted by: GrannyBgood on Oct 2, 2008 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does it occur to anyone else that this obscene sum my be just the downpayment on Bush/Cheney's new Police State/Dictatorship?
Funny how all this rush coincides with the first time our troops are being stationed HERE (YESTERDAY, Oct 1st!) to patrol OUR streets "In case of civil unrest" since the days of the Civil War, after which they passed the Posse Comitas Act to outlaw quartering troops in the homeland (No doubt wiped away by Bush's Military Commissions Act of this summer!).
So WHAT are they planning for US that would cause "Civil Unrest"? (besides this huge rip-off!)
Another Tri-fecta for Bush, a canceled election, or just another STOLEN one?
Is THIS the new "October Surprise", or just setting us up for a worse one?
Thankyou, Bernie Sanders, for pointing out who really needs to pay for this "protection racket"!

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AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED 3RD PARTY PROGRESSIVE/LIBERAL INDYS !!!!
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 2, 2008 7:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE BETRAYED BY BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ?!?!?

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DEFECTOR ALERT!!
Posted by: photon's feather on Oct 2, 2008 7:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
House girds for second try on financial rescue

(Talk about a biased title.)

This particular defector is California Rep David Dreier - and he's taking the bribe offered by the Senate: a few ineffective band-aids for Main Street.

CAPITOL HILL SWITCHBOARD
TOLL FREE NUMBERS:
1-800-473-6711
1-800-828-0498

Once more, the list of who to thank and who to spank:

Roll Call 674

Please also direct their attention to the comment by Kucinich to Goodman on Democracy Now, September 29.

Democracy Now

Kucinich was told by a former head of the FDIC that the Bush administration had been forcing banks to maintain a higher cash reserve than normal, which naturally adds to constricting the flow of money. (If you read the transcript, you'll find the comment in the last statement by Kucinich just above/before the break. An additional minor comment also follows the break, if I recall correctly.)

Please tell whoever you call to tell the White House to stop manipulating/exacerbating the crisis!

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Voting 101
Posted by: Ayuh! on Oct 2, 2008 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Pay attention to ballot access in your state.

2. Rank all candidates who gain ballot access in your state, without regard to their chances of winning.

3. Pay attention to polls in your state.

4. If your state is predicted to be a red or swing state, vote for the Democrat; if it's safely blue, vote for your first choice.

5. Change America!

It requires a bit of work, which is why most voters are party loyalists, which is why nothing ever changes. There's no need to cost the Democrats any elections; if people in safe states would vote for the more progressive third-party candidates the Democrats might get nervous and start becoming more progressive.

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» RE: Voting 101 Posted by: Ayuh!
Racism
Posted by: cynyk on Oct 2, 2008 7:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately, Bernie, you're preaching to the choir. No matter how factual your arguments are, they make no difference. Racism is still rampant here and the Swiftian Yahoos of this country will believe any hairbrained excuse that supports their biases.

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We must obey Obama
Posted by: eeezzz on Oct 2, 2008 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama supports this bill and everything Obama does is right and pure. He is the smartest person in politics today and if he says this is what we must do, we are not to question him.

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» RE: We must obey Obama Posted by: Spot
I'm Barack Obama and I approve this Bailout
Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Oct 2, 2008 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This vote, along with his FISA vote, tells me all I need to know about this man and where his priorities lie.

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» Barack had lost my vote Posted by: xvictor
» so what are you going to do about it? Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» Vote your conscience Posted by: DCostello2
» Political Hedonism Posted by: pdxjoe
» If you could point out... Posted by: pdxjoe
» Funny yet sadly true. :=( Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Funny yet sadly true. :=( Posted by: HoboHomo
wake up
Posted by: grkjr on Oct 2, 2008 8:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tis not too late to really make a difference.. Simply do not vote for anyone who has voted for this bail out.. a very easy thing to do.. if we have the guts. Those against the war were not able to do that and we are still there. Perhaps is was less clear as to what our role should be in Iraq. But, this bail out seems so clearly inappropriate given all the alternatives that would actually be more effective against this ever happening again.. many experts from all over the united states have implored congress to go down another more viable road. But, congress can't hear anything but the sound of money into their election campaigns and into their own pockets and dare to BRAG how great they are for coming together inspite of their voters at home telling them NO NO NO.. so unless you get a kick out of "running around in circles and shouting", the solution is simple .. DO NOT VOTE FOR ANYONE IN CONGRESS WHO VOTED FOR THIS BAILOUT. AND THAT STARTS WITH OBAMA AND MCCCAIN. to do otherwise is surely to be a co conspirator, as limited in thought as those in congress. So we get one more chance to "look into the mirror" to see who is at fault for the direction this country has been going for the last 20 plus years. Really tiring of hearing those who vote for "the least of the two evils"...and taking no responsibility for how things are turning out. Congress is no bedrock of statesmanship, they use the same tactics, republican or democrat, "fear", to such an extent that it is hard to determine if they believe their own hype or are continuing to simply try and fool us as they laugh all the way to the bank. Stop listening to their words and try following their vote.

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One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: pdxjoe on Oct 2, 2008 8:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe "address" isn't the right word for what I have to point out. It's more like "brings out into the open." There's a class divide showing up in the wake of these bailout attempts, and it's not just in politicians.

There is a significant group of Americans, and not just Wall Street fat-cats or Hedge Fund attorneys, but people who live down the street from me and many of you who want this bailout to pass. These people are worried often enough of the same thing---THEIR investments and, by extension, THEIR retirement.

These people have been given to suck at the teet of speculative capital for long enough that they would, along with a number of their congressmen, do anything not to lose the illusion that capitalism works.

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» Savings vs. Investment Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: Savings vs. Investment Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Savings vs. Investment Posted by: badkitty
» No Problem Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: No Problem Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: No Problem Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: No Problem Posted by: EncinoM
Regulate the bastards or vote them out...
Posted by: grindermonkey on Oct 2, 2008 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is nothing more than an eleventh hour move by the Bush administration to separate Americans from their money. This legislation establishes a "money Czar" to take care of Wall Street so that tomorrow's money "trickles through" the market to Main Street. The House and Senate under this legislation become economic serfs to the market. This arrangement is medieval, undemocratic and probably unconstitutional. The House of Representatives has rightly expressed the financial concerns of their respective constituencies. Cumulatively the country opposes this because they smell the fundamental rat that Bush is trying to pass off. We are being cut out of the legislative/administrative loop by this legislation.

Peter DeFazio (D-Ore)has a better idea. Set up a graduated tax system for Wall Street that sets tax rates commensurate with the risk of each type of financial instrument. These revenues could protect the government from future disasters. Let's reinstate a Glass Steagal arrangement that separates Wall Street speculation from Main Street banking and finance. Just as the Constitution separates Church from State, the congress should create an impermeable wall between Wall Street and Main Street to protect personal assets from larcenous, frivolous speculation and derivatives that the SEC seems unable to regulate.

CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND TELL HIM THAT YOU WANT YOUR MONEY AND GOVERNMENT BACK.

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"It easier being a dictator." -- G. Bushie
Posted by: xvictor on Oct 2, 2008 8:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those miserable words uttered by Bush says a lot about him and those about him. The crass revote being pushed by the dems, reps, and bushie amounts to a form of benign dictatorship. In other words, to hell with what the people have to say because those in power knows what's best for you (and mostly for them), so keep your mouth shut. Democracy can be most inconvenient to those concerned.

"It's easier being a dictator."

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Wow! A high caliber politician
Posted by: Gravitas on Oct 2, 2008 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is one of the most well written, simple to understand, factual articles I have read on this mess. I am proud your last name is Sanders! As is mine, although no relation. There have been Sanders here since before the American Revolution and many have a reputation as being stick to their guns rebels who tell it like it is!!! Keep being an upright soul in a den of whores and thieves! All my Congressman Ramh Emanuel can do is stand behind Frank and Pelosi and grin! That and waste trees in his newsletters telling us such relevant things as he recently lost 12 lbs. Unbelievable!!! Go back to ballet, you won't get my vote again!!!

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X-POLYGAMIST WIFE in ARIZONA
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Oct 2, 2008 9:31 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who do you think is worse, pedophile prophet Warren Jeffs, or the evildoers on Wall Street?

Watch the video:

BANKING ON HEAVEN .COM

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No Surprise Obama Voted For It!
Posted by: Blueprelude on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you look at the opensecrets.org website you will find that Barack Obama's top campaign contributor is Goldman Sachs. I am an Illinoisian and it is clear he is not my senator; he is the senator from Goldman Sachs!

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» who is? Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: who is? Posted by: Blueprelude
» RE: who is? Posted by: left_libertarian
Eventually the workinking class will be working till they're
Posted by: Landbaron on Oct 2, 2008 9:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
100 years old or die whatever comes first. So find work you really love to do which isn't that easy.

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WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE ECONOMY (PART 1)
Posted by: hoorah on Oct 2, 2008 10:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's what I hear from almost everyone on my job. Some people have simply been brainwashed by fear mongering perpetuated by the mainstream media and certain voices in Washington, D.C. They somehow believe that legislation can bail us out of this economic mess. Legislation or the lack thereof is what has gotten us into this financial trap. If you keep hearing something long enough it's easy to start believing it. That's a part of brainwashing.

Some people fail to realize that past and current legislation has already failed to prevent this current recession. And yet they choose to gleefully believe that life will get better for the rest of us if we bail out the crooks who caused this economic crisis. And once will not be enough. They will continue with their cheating, stealing, embezzling, lying and scheming with the blessings of the U.S. government. Only this time (through "new and improved legislation" in their favor), they'll have a steady flow of taxpayer funded financial backing to help keep them afloat. I suppose that after that river runs dry. Those of us who have managed to hang on to our homes, cars and other assets will face government seizures. There is no one alive who can convince me that "taxpayer-funded corporate welfare" will save the U.S. economy.

I didn't see anything in the previous bill that would benefit any non-corporate entity in the United States. Supposedly in the U.S. Senate's revised version of the "Corporate-Welfare Bill" (CWB), bank accounts will be insured at or up to around $250,000. Great for those who need that amount of monetary insurance from the FDIC.

Similar to what Senator Sanders has stated. Neither the past nor the revised "CORPORATE BAIL-OUT BILL" is of any benefit to non-wealthy Americans. It will accomplish nothing to prevent unsound/unethical business practices from occurring in the future. Furthermore. From what I hear. President Bush nor the members of congress have consulted with economists, prior to rushing to pass the "Finish Bankrupting The American Citizens" bill (FBTAC). I'm sure that many members of congress want to be re-elected to office this November. Realize this. U.S. citizens may wisely vote you out of office this time around. And that would be poetic justice regardless of how some of you will vote on any bill from now until election day! Nancy was right. "The Party Is Over." Time to pack up and go home.

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» where are all the real economists? Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
Shocking, An Independent Opposes the Bailout While the 2 Main Parties Support It
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Oct 2, 2008 10:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously, stop voting Democrat or Republican, stop throwing your vote away on those lesser of 2 evils and vote for a candidate who will actually be a change.

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» but we need to stop the worse of two evils now Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
What about the 1 Trillion - 230 Billion already spent this week?
Posted by: ashbaines on Oct 2, 2008 10:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Still not a peep in the media about the 1 trillion, 230 billion spent just this week.

All week everybody has been whining about the $700 "defeat" in the house...

The Fed injected $630 billion on Monday just before the vote... Google Bloomberg Fed $630 billion.

then on Wednesday the chimp signed a bill for the EXACT same amount... even my best informed friends didn't know - or thought it was the same monies...

It most certainly was NOT -- they've spent 1 trillion 230 billion spent since monday

and all we are hearing about is the next 700 billion.....

when does the shootin start?

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It's just time for a beat-down
Posted by: DaBear on Oct 2, 2008 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm convinced that this is the only solution. You can't make "deals" with people like this country's owning-class. You just can't. They're not honest, they don't give a shit about anything but their own pocket let alone abstractions like democracy, fairness, equity, equality, parity, whatever.

In the mountains, they'd just burn down your fucking barn or blowup your car. Mebbe it's time for that. non-violence hasn't worked... we've gotten screwed worse for all our marchin' and bitchin'. Maybe that's who we're really dealing with is a bunch of thugs. Thugs only understand one thing, the fist.

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A Bailout at Market Prices
Posted by: janvdb on Oct 2, 2008 10:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is said that the "toxic assets" cannot be valued. Hence the granting of Sec. Paulson breathtaking discretion in spending taxpayers' money.

Disaggregate the toxic mortgage backed securities and all their derivative products. Release the value of the underlying mortgages, most of which are sound, from their destructive Wall Street packaging. This would improve bank solvency. Then, use taxpayer money to buy new stock in these banks, recapitalizing them only as necessary.

Treasury should compile a list of problem bond issuances and all derivities thereof. It should give all current owners 48 hours to identify their holdings of said problem bond tranches. Meanwhile, Treasury should unbundle these packages of bonds down to their constituent mortgages. Then, Treasury should distribute the underlying mortgages to the current owners of these products on a prorata basis reflecting the estimated value of their current holdings.

The underlying mortgages are easily valued using standard software for calculating the discounted present value of a Deed of Trust (DoT). Missed payments take a specified nick from the value of the DoT. Mortgages near or in foreclosure can be valued at the independently appraised value of the underlying real estate.

Even the sickest real estate in the sickest parts of California and Florida is selling to vultures. It has a price.

The total of the discounted present value of the constituent mortgages and foreclosed-on real estate underlying a specific bond tranche is the value of that bond tranche and all its derivatives.

The underlying mortgages in each bond should be ranked by quality (determined by payment history and loan-to-value ratio) and distributed to the holders of the various "slices" of the bundle based on the risk level of the "slice" they bought.

The riskmongers who bought high-risk "equity slices," for instance, should get the stuff now in foreclosure.

Mortgages with untenable specifications should be converted to 30-year fixed-rate notes before redistribution; this could prevent many foreclosures.

As for the most exotic products, something, which is “difficult to value,” and “illiquid”, is worthless. Those who produce and buy this garbage should deal with the consequences of their own actions.

Unbundling would release significant increases in value, possibly enough to re-capitalize most holders of the products. All original bonds and all derivities based on them would be made null and void.

Re-do corporate books with these new values.

Then, Paulsen would be required use taxpayer money to buy newly issued stock in those banks which are still short of capital and too big to fail, at current stock prices (without releasing the results of the revaluation). He would be empowered only to bring required reserve ratios to a specified level, and this only for loan-making institutions.

Taxpayers would almost certainly make money over 5 years.

Buy no toxic assets!!

Remember, the point of this exercise is to preserve the flow of loans to Main Street. Investment banks and hedge funds don't make loans, so let them fail.

Even at 8% unemployment, something like 95% of US mortgage payments will continue to be made. The vast majority of US mortgages are still solid.

The individual Deeds of Trust or Mortgages inside these ugly wraps are going to continue to produce payment income in the vast majority of cases, even in a depression.

It is the packaging, slapped on by Wall Street, which is destroying the value of these DoTs.

Looking forward, let's not package mortgages. They are too diverse and need closer management.

Jan VanDenBerg

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Sick of this Corrupt Government
Posted by: firewashington on Oct 2, 2008 11:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep hearing, "contact your representatives" but that doesn't seem to work here in California. BOXER, FEINSTEIN and WAXMAN have all voted FOR THE BAILOUT. They are either totally ignorant or don't care about the plan or they don't care about the people.

I keep telling them to go with the Kucinich plan but they won't listen. What can you do if your representatives refuse to listen to you?

I am outraged about our worthless government. We all pay taxes but how many of us get a return on our taxes? In L.A. we know that our tax dollars don't go to roads, water or clean air. The TERMINATOR just vetoed the health reform bill and doesn't care about what the people want either.

We need to fire everyone in Washington who votes for the senate bailout plan which does not benefit the taxpayers but only the criminal wealthy who probably won't see one day in prison.

So many of us have contacted our representatives about the executive compensation issue. If you look at the 450 page bill on c-span.org and do a search under "executive compensation", you'll see there is a couple of paragraphs of rubish....just language that is thrown in there that means absolutely nothing. It's just put in the bill so they can say that the bill adressed the issue which it does NOT!!

If this thing passes, the only other alternative is to refuse to pay taxes to line the pockets of the rich and the wars lords.

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More lipstick on a pig
Posted by: Democritus on Oct 2, 2008 11:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Senate, with only a third of its members up for re-election, took the Paulson pig and just slapped some lipstick on it. It still isn't pretty. Bernie Sanders is among the few who shows any sort of common sense.

I'm disappointed in Obama for playing it safe. It provides evidence for the claim that he can give a pretty speech but does little else. As for McCain, it's typical behavior from a man who calls himself a maverick but votes with the rest of the branded stock when it counts.

Let's hope the House declines to go along with the Senate. Let's hope they take this pig to the slaughterhouse. If not, we're the ones whose bacon gets stolen once again by the big-money banking interests.

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Susan CA
Posted by: yoma on Oct 2, 2008 12:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As Naomi Klein said recently "why don't we nationalize something profitable, like Exxon"

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Bailout bait and switch
Posted by: GLOMO on Oct 2, 2008 1:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now that it has been made into a Democrat versus Republican football match and it seems the Republicans have caved in, we are being told that this 700 billion won't do the actual economy and definitely not the middle class any good. 9/11, Iraq, weapons of mass destruction, electronic surveillance of citizens, economic rescue. Is there no end to our trust? Are we lemmings or good Germans?

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» Only 'Following Orders' Posted by: Cathyc
house.gov website/email is swamped
Posted by: zooeyhall on Oct 2, 2008 1:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been trying to get onto the house.gov website and send an email to my Congressman all day. I can only get to the home page and that is very slow. Tried to send an email and it brings up an error message. Is this because so many people are trying to contact their congressperson?

Also tried calling the phone number listed on the page, rings but no answer.

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» thanks Max! Posted by: zooeyhall
Celebrity style and sound-bite politics
Posted by: Cathyc on Oct 2, 2008 3:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America politics is really a game played by morons for morons. Image is everything in America. What a pathetic nation - with respect to the minority of Americans who have to live with this normalized insanity every day. How do you do it, you guys? I'd have emigrated years ago!

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» Can I come live with you? Posted by: eeezzz
So What's Special About The Banks?
Posted by: opmoc on Oct 2, 2008 3:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well I have been away for nearly 2 weeks and almost completeley devoid of news - even from my own family....

And I slowly get up to speed and read some really interesting stuff posted below...but also take immediate action to illustrate the truth contained below

My son has a rapidly growing business but has recently had some accidents that were nothing whatsoever to do with his business but did have some adverse effects

So he takes remedial action and actually succeeds in getting his banks support...

So I says to him - what is the total amount of your debts (not including what he already owes me) and he told me (eventually)

It was significantly more than he paid for the almost identical sports car that he had just bought to replace the one's who's pistons he had disolved.

So I nearly doubled it
(his total debt)

And said I want it all repaying with interest on exactly the same terms of the original loan.

He is 20 years old and now owes me about $20,000 US Dollars including interest

But the Bank is now PAYING him Interest

Until he spends it all to grow his business even faster

Bankers are Wankers and should be treated as Water Utilities





Extract from "The Great Bank Robbery of 2008"

http://mises.org/story/3132

which linked to the following extract

http://thecurrent.theatlantic.com/
archives/2008/09/not-buying-it.php


" So what's special about banks [that they deserve a bailout]? According to what I keep reading, it's that without banks, nobody can borrow, and the economy grinds to a halt.

Well, let's think about that. Banks don't lend their own money; they lend other people's (their depositors' and their stockholders'). Just because the banks disappear doesn't mean the lenders will. Borrowers will still want to borrow and lenders will still want to lend. The only question is whether they'll be able to find each other.

… [A]s any user of match.com can tell you, the technology for finding partners has improved since [the 1930s]. When a firm wants to raise capital, why can't it just sell bonds over the web? Or issue new stock? Or approach one of the hedge funds that seem to be swimming in cash? Or borrow abroad?

… I'm not sure these big Wall Street banks are really necessary, and I'm not sure we'd miss them much if they were gone. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but if so, I think it should be incumbent on Messrs. Bernanke, Paulson and above all Bush to explain what it is."

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Dean Baker on the Bailout
Posted by: fanny666 on Oct 2, 2008 3:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dean Baker on the Bailout

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Russia and the world understand this bail out fraud more than many americans.
Posted by: avatar_singh on Oct 2, 2008 3:37 PM   
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http://www.russiatoday.com/business/news/31264


Bailout fraud October 2, 2008, 13:28
Bailout fraud
The $700 Bln bailout is not about US cash. The U.S. is a debtor nation. The cash for the bailout has to be borrowed, primarily from the Japanese and Chinese.

According to one person I've spoken to who knows the top Japan and China banking regulators, they are not happy about the U.S. p***ing their money up the wall.

The better informed congressmen have lines of communication to the Chinese & Japanese and know they can't sell it.

Bush in Tuesday's speech insisted the toxic assets could, if held for some years, be sold at a profit.

That's plain rubbish. If that was the case, there would be no need for a bailout. Banks could just sit on their assets until they recover in value. The problem is, they were so wildly overvalued, they are not going to recover in value.

How were they so wildly overvalued. You won't read it in the FT or hear it on the BBC but clearly the answer is lies and fraud.

Even more important

This is not a liquidity crisis. On Tuesday night, European banks deposited well over 100 Billion euros at the ECB. The banks were not prepared to leave their money for one night in a retail bank. Perhaps, they know something we don't?

If the banks deposited E100 Bln there is no shortage of cash. The point is they won't lend it. Not to each other, not to companies, not to home buyers, except at rates which make a mockery of the word 'lending'.

This is a default crisis. Banks and large corporations are going to default. The banks know that. The public do not yet.

What is the answer

Hank Paulson, the dour looking ex-Goldman Sachs trader worth $500 Mln, says there is no alternative to buying the banks failed betting slips.

There are several alternatives. One is to let the Japanese and Chinese buy the US's failed investment banks. They already own large chunks but politically the US cannot stomach Asia buying the Ivy League banks.

Barter their assets. In 1998 the IMF told Russia that it should not bail out its banks. Ten years later the IMF is encouraging the US to do just that. One rule for the emerging markets, another for the Masters of the Universe.

Russia dealt with illiquid banks by knocking their heads together and forcing them to swap assets at knockdown prices. Washington does not have the balls for that. It proposes using taxpayers money to buy assets the banks don't want. It is a recapitalisation of the banks by stealth and lie.

God help us.

By Mark Gay, RT

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Practicle Time Sensitive Question: Please answer
Posted by: Drume on Oct 2, 2008 3:57 PM   
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How can we contact the members who voted no the first time to urge them to continue voting no? I just tried with one guy, and it timed out.

Can someone please respond asap?

Direct me to a web site, anything...

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Thank you Senator
Posted by: TREEGUY on Oct 2, 2008 4:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ANd while we are at it lets get rid of the Fed (another private corp). Let's impeach bush and cheney. Let's destroy the pariot acts.
I tell you what lets just roll back to when bush entered office and erase everything he has done.
I am fed up (no pun intented).
National Id's (rfid chips)
Homeland security (dismantle it)
Get out of Iraq. (we are just pissing people off by being there).
Let the rich feed themselves.

I am sorry for all americans who suffered under this administration, and prior administrations.

But enough is enough, I want my country back
I want my constitution back.
It's time to rise to the occasion.

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Start Asking Why No Public Healthcare
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 2, 2008 4:15 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know, these are the same assholes who say they can't fund public healthcare. What did they just do? They effectively nationalized AIG, an insurance company mind you, by bailing it out.

The Democratic establishment has enabled every infringement on rights, attack on the middle class and illegal move the Republicans have made in the last eight years and with this bailout, how much more naked could their intentions be? They failed you on Iraq, on everything. Eject these fucks from both houses!

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Claim Exempt from being forced to submit to extorsion.
Posted by: common intelligence on Oct 2, 2008 4:49 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bernie...I doubt you or any senator will have to power to over come the robber barrons that are liegalizing extorsion all while the majority of Demos by 2/3 decide what's best for me.

So I'm forced to take a stand against terrony in my country because know one will fight for me. I will not accept ignorant people accepting being screwed and making me get screwed because they have accepted being complient with a bunch of thieves.

This is my country dam it And I will not comply with allowing the congress tell me I have to bail out anyone. Because they are stupid enough to get sucked into a corrupt system.

Thanks for the info but I have to ask...How do they expect to get tax from people that aren't employed ? Who is going to actually have to pay and how are they going to suck it out of us. Even more so what are they going to tax? I mean what is worthless paper as an investment of behalf of the people really amount to?

The bill supporters propound that the people will benefit in the future when the investment is then sold. SOLD TO WHO? What is it they are going to sell? worthless paper IOUs?

But more so understand this. I knew this dibackle was in the wakeback before Bush cut out the "bankruptsy" bill.
I KNEW the system was flawed and this was inevitably coming down long ago. SO I didn't buy into the scam of Buying a house I knew was impossible to meet the balloon payments even though I was told I could qualify. I didn't buy into the 401K scam because I knew that there was no way to guarantee an ever increasing growth market that would insure a nice retirement based on this scam.

So Answer me this Why would ibe obliged to to pay to bailout the system that I didn;'t buy into? Full well knowig it was flawed and a pyramid scam?
Why should I be obliged to accept cutting my throat to save a stupid inept population and even vote for leaders that won't address the issues?

I claim exempt.
I would love to take it to court. But I know the bastards that have plotted this path would never allow it to come to the forfront of the news and the MSM will never cover it and I could never have enough $ to afford Legal counsel that would be worth a damn.
Then too the IRS would garnish every person that would refuse to pay into the fund. There by isolating one and the other from colludig against the system such as the Bush Admin has done to the people.

I continue to say VOTE NO TO A BAILOUT, because there is nothing to bailout. The value of the so called investments is just falling to show their true value. The whole scam was a sham and I can not be made to pay for a scam. IT"S AGAINST THE LAW. and extorsion is too.

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Greenday Basket Case. American Idiot. Join The Army.
Posted by: opmoc on Oct 2, 2008 6:48 PM   
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All the major internet websites have the CIA recruiting from the people who watch videos like this...

Just watch the Fucking Video - it doesn't mean you have to join an army and shoot people - the current crisis will be resolved by education not weapons

You too can start a business to do something useful and employ people to do something good for us all.

We don't just have to destroy to try and protect our territory

No-one wants to invade America

Basket Case

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XKOwGffqlbM

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Even Many Republican Senators Have Finally Realised That The Neocons Are Completely EVIL
Posted by: opmoc on Oct 2, 2008 7:06 PM   
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And I take my hats off to them

Sure I'm a Left Wing Capitalist

But Fuck Me

The Republicans Have Been SHOWING Up The Democrats - about their determination and courage to get rid of this EVIL

Just Say The Truth

It Won't Hurt You

Well O.K. Maybe a bit in the short term - but in the long run - everyone will respect you for standing up and saying this is not right regardless of your political view.

Can't we all UNITE against CORRUPTION

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ALL The Americans We Met Over The Last TWO Weeks in The Greek Islands Were REALLY Nice
Posted by: opmoc on Oct 2, 2008 8:19 PM   
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And compared to the Aussies and Canadians

Quiet

Oh fuck me - we really are going through a crisis but in the midst of it it is really nice to meet people rom totally different cultures within the "rich Western World" and share values and experiences

We are next going again to India and a couple of months later I am going to summon up my fear of MALARIA and go with my wife again to

AFRICA

Tony

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So what are the democrats going to do about it?
Posted by: blogbooks on Oct 2, 2008 8:22 PM   
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Vote for it like the good little slaves they are.

You may be genuine, author of this article, but you still go to bed with a den of wolves.

We're the prey. You will be too - and soon, if you don't fall in line with your masters.

They're more than willing to play dirty.

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Rbronfman
Posted by: Rbronfman on Oct 4, 2008 7:09 AM   
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What sort of government do we have, in which we have a bill of rights guaranteeing everyone's civil liberties, yet allows free enterprise to make indentured servants out of all Americans, either by predatory lending practices, or by getting the government to force American taxpayers to pay taxes to cover bailouts for greedy banks and corporates, the very ones who don't pay any taxes! I do not see anything in the Constitution that gives Capitalism or free enterprise more rights than individuals. As a mater of fact, Capitalism and free enterprise is not even mentioned at all in the Constitution! So, why should they have more rights than us?

No matter how you slice it, this bailout will not solve any of this nation's economic problems. All it insures is the banks and corporates will continue to keep doing busienss as usual. We are supporting very corrupt institutions that do nothing for the welfare of this country. Had president Bush given the money directly to the homeowners who are in trouble on their mortgages, rather than to the banks, would make a greater impact to infuse money back into the economy an the banks, and help homeowners to pay off their mortgages. In the meanwhile, the government needs to regulate the banks and Wall Street severely. Dish out stiff prison terms to corporate execs and banking officials. If the government refuses to do it, then it is time to have another French style Revolution where the Bastilles in Washington are stormed and heads get lopped off.

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Rbronfman
Posted by: Rbronfman on Oct 4, 2008 7:14 AM   
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Capitalism can only exists with with the gaurantee of public bailout money!

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Game over for American freedom and democracy
Posted by: blogbooks on Oct 4, 2008 12:24 PM   
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Those that rule the United States are sending us all a message. This signals a return to a very common state of existence for humanity through history - one where the very few rule over masses of poor.

This didn't happen this week or last week or last year. America has been steadily moving in this directly for the past 100 years, at least. Again, this is normal.

A country where the masses are free, educated, and enjoy relative wealth and comfort is very rare indeed. This state of existence does not benefit the elite in any way. An affluent slave becomes fat and weak. Our masters have learned from the decadent and weak Baby Boom generation that they need to reign us in a bit, take away a bit of our allowance.

So let me spell out the future plain as day.

1. The Baby Boom generation had the highest standard of living that any American generation will ever enjoy. We've past the apex of human civilization insofar as the masses are concerned. The future is a return to poverty and barbarism.

2. The 3rd Infantry Division 1st Brigade Combat Team just stood up their operations under "NorthCOM." These battle hardened soldiers, that spent 35 of the past 60 months in Iraq killing people, are here to "subdue civil unrest and control crowds." These are battle hardened killers deployed on American soil for the purpose of controlling the American people by any means necessary. The future is violent subjugation of any who oppose the will of our masters.

3. The bailout is giving money to foreign banks because the system has "gone global." There, in a real manner, is no United States of America. We have already lost our sovereignty to the international banking system that controls the world. The future is one without a bill of rights, without sovereign nations, in which all pay homage to the international elite that will rule us all.

4. You need to wake the fuck up and realize that this isn't something you can ignore any longer. This isn't just the rantings of the Unabomber and nut jobs on the 'net. This is real and this, for the most part, has ALREADY happened. You cannot stay in your yuppy bubble worlds much longer. This is coming to a location near you - and soon. Look out for yourself and anyone you want to protect. The future is indeed a return to barbarism.

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