Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement

Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

The Fiscally Insane Bailout Bill Might Not Pass -- Here Are 5 Reasons It Shouldn't

By David Sirota, Blog for Our Future. Posted September 29, 2008.


The scheme would force taxpayers to absorb the pain, while Wall Street execs reap the gain.

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

More stories by David Sirota

Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

There was news Sunday afternoon of a congressional deal to bailout Wall Street fat cats with $700 billion of taxpayer cash (you can read the draft legislation here). Though the deal negotiated between congressional leaders and the White House is better than what Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson originally proposed early last week, it remains an insulting atrocity, having omitted even basic aid to homeowners, bankruptcy reforms and any modicum of future financial industry regulation. Now, the New York Times reports that the Democratic leadership may not have the votes to pass this bailout. So without further ado, here are the top 5 reasons (in no order) why every single member of Congress -- Democrat and Republican -- should vote this sucker down. Please feel free to copy and paste this post into an email to your congressperson. They are deciding right now -- let them hear your voice.

1.This Bailout's Inherent Fiscal Insanity Could Make Problem Worse

When an individual consumer uses a new credit card to pay off astounding debt from an old credit card, it's akin to check kiting, which is is illegal. Apparently, though, when the government does it, it's billed as Serious Public Policy. Because that's what this supposedly prudent bailout bill would do: Force taxpayers to borrow $700 billion from foreign banks to pay off the bad debt of Wall Street banks. During a crisis that is aimed at preventing interest rates from skyrocketing, nobody has been able to explain how adding almost a trillion dollars to the interest rate-exacerbating national debt would do anything other than undermine the plan's underlying objective. Worse, the U.S. Treasury Department itself admits that the $700 billion number is "not based on any particular data point" -- that is, they created it out of thin air because "We just wanted to choose a really large number." Slapping that amount of money onto the national credit card when our government can't even justify the amount is beyond absurd -- it is insane.

It didn't have to be this way, of course. As I noted in my newspaper column this week, Senator Bernie Sanders proposed a temporary tax on millionaires to finance part of this bailout. Similarly, Blue Dog Democrats proposed a future tax on financial firms if and when taxpayers lose cash on the deal. These proposals were discarded in favor of language asking the government to "submit a plan to Congress on how to recoup any losses," according to the Associated Press. Not only is that language toothless, but it opens up the possibility of a plan being submitted that says we should raise middle-class taxes or slash middle-class social programs to pay for Wall Street's misbehavior.

2. Experts on both the left and right say this bailout could make things worse

Primum non nocere is the latin phrase for "first do no harm" -- the priority principle for any EMT working on a sick patient. It should be the same priority for Congress at this moment -- and a growing group of esteemed experts on both the Right and Left are insisting that this bailout bill could make things worse. Here's a review:

  • The Washington Post reported on Friday, almost 200 academic economists "have signed a petition organized by a University of Chicago professor objecting to the plan on the grounds that it could create perverse incentives, that it is too vague and that its long-run effects are unclear."
  • NYU's Nouriel Roubini, the visionary who had been predicting this meltdown, says "The Treasury plan (even in its current version agreed with Congress) is very poorly conceived and does not contain many of the key elements of a sound and efficient and fair rescue plan."
  • Harvard's Ken Rogoff, a Former Federal Rerserve and IMF official, insists that the prospect of this bailout is, unto itself, taking a manageable problem and making it into a more intense crisis. He says that credit is frozen primarily because banks want to avoid dealing with other banks that might drive a hard bargain, and instead would rather wait for free money from the government. Without the prospect of that free money, Rogoff suggests that credit would probably begin moving again, if slowly.
  • Dean Baker of the Center on Economic and Policy Research says that spending so much cash so quickly on such a poorly conceived plan could have the effect of making it impossible to fund economic stimulus that is the real way out of this mess. "Suppose the Paulson plan goes through," he writes. "It is virtually certain that the economy will weaken further and the number of foreclosures and people without jobs will continue to rise. This is the fallout from a collapsing housing bubble…When families respond to their loss of home equity by cutting back their consumption it will deepen the recession. In this context it might prove very important to have the resources needed to provide a substantial stimulus. [and] there is no doubt that this bailout will make further stimulus much more difficult to sell politically."

Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: democrats, pelosi, frank, bailout, billions

David Sirota is a best-selling author whose newest book, "The Uprising," was just released this month. He is a fellow at the Campaign for America's Future and a board member of the Progressive States Network -- both nonpartisan organizations. His blog is at www.credoaction.com/sirota.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace! Sign up now »

Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
How to REALLY save the economy-- and a whole lot more
Posted by: kwalla on Sep 29, 2008 12:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PUT PEOPLE TO WORK; FIGHT GLOBAL WARMING AND RAISE THE VALUE ON HOMES... here's how:

What we NEED to do is to stimulate the economy by spending public money to do "green remodeling" (adding insulation and other energy saving features/updates to buildings and also installing site-appropriate alternative energy generation: solar, wind). Such measures applied to both public and private property would:

- get money in the hands of skilled construction laborers who are out of work;
- reduce energy consumption and thus CO2 production as well as lower the utility bills at a time when energy prices are rising exponentially; and finally
- raise the value of residential and commercial real estate.

This is a WIN-WIN-WIN situation all around. This has been done in a very limited fashion via tax credits in the 2005 Energy Bill-- a number of which have been renewed or are currently slated to be renewed-- but we MUST increase the funding level dramatically. If the bottom line is that we need to inject significant public money into the economy in order to divert any of several different great depression-like scenarios, let us do it in a way that maximizes the benefits.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» What? Posted by: photon's feather
» Umm, partially correct Posted by: 6399
If You Read Anything Read This :Financial Bailout: Thanks but No Thanks
Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 29, 2008 12:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Financial Bailout: Thanks but No Thanks - What Lincoln would have said by Ellen Brown

lFinancial Bailout: Thanks but No Thanks

A must read about our financial system ...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» what a bunch of BS Posted by: aalif ba ta tha
Plain Talk Express
Posted by: Direct Democracy on Sep 29, 2008 12:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oversight:

We're being raped and they're setting up bleachers.

FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Another "Nay" from Ohio!
Posted by: photon's feather on Sep 29, 2008 12:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kucinich, of course, is against this.

But here's an amusing way of looking at it,
courtesy of Ohio Rep. Marcy Kaptur (and youtube):

Let's Play Wall Street Bailout

Granted, it may be a bit over the top for some,
but I think we could use at least one note of levity.

(Plus, there are obviously some in this country
that seem to require this type of approach.)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Another "Nay" from Ohio! Posted by: photon's feather
» Dont forget the House Republicans Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» "Let's Play Wall Street Bailout" Posted by: itzamirakul
QUESTION: Why is Bush grinning in the article's accompanying photograph on the home page?
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 29, 2008 12:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ANSWER: Because one group the bailout won't hurt is his treasonous neocon family

When Bush 41 was President Nixon's CIA chief, he formed the renegade conservative "Committee on Present Danger" -- predecessor of the rightwing extremist organization, "Project for a New American Century" (PNAC), founded years later by arch conservative Bill Kristol.

As president, Bush 41 fostered the imperialistic "New World Order" agenda that became a PNAC hallmark. Formed in 1997, PNAC advocated the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and dominating the world with U.S. military power. Jeb Bush, acting as the family surrogate, was a PNAC founder.

Also during the Bush 41 administration, the current no-bid DOD contract scam was created by Dick Cheney, then Secretary of Defense who later became a PNAC founder, along with his fellow Iraq invasion advocates, Don Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and Scooter Libby. All four enriched themselves with lucrative investments in military/industrial complex stocks.

After Big George lost his reelection bid, he joined the private investment firm, Carlyle Group, managed by PNAC member Frank Carlucci, former Reagan DOD Secretary.

Since its formation and primarly because of Iraq War 2, the Carlyle Group has reportedly earned Bush 41 almost a billion dollars on his original investment. Much of that wealth will be go to first son Dub-ya, who, not coincidentally, pushed for repeal of the "Death" (inheritance) tax.

One thing you can say about the Bushes. They know how to get rich -- at America's expense.

Finally, if you are an undecided voter, learn about the REAL John McCain and his so-called "heroic" war record by clicking on: Vote Against McCain (one of the HOTTEST anti-McCain sites on the Web)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Interesting Times
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 29, 2008 1:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Put yourself in the shoes of our beleaguered lawmakers. There sat Henry Paulson - representing the most incompetent, corrupt administration since the invention of dirt; an administration that lied the American people into an unecessary war that has thus far led to the deaths of a million people; an administration that has subverted the Constitution; an administration that squandered an astronomical monetary surplus on a tax cut for a class of people who already has more money than they knew what to do with; an administration that tried ro do away with habeaus corpus; an administration that has engaged in political persecutions - and this asshole wants the American people to entrust him with three quarters of a trillion dollars.

Gosh, we live in interesting times! We really do!
Someone has accurately described it as privatized profit and socialized loss. How much more proof do the clueless American people need? The mask has been yanked away from the phantom of this stupid operetta and the real, ugly face of the so-called "Reagan Revolution" is revealed for all to behold. THEY are allowed to run roughshod through our social and economic infrastucture. WE are expected to clean up THEIR mess.THEY walk away from the economic carnage relatively unscathed, their tax cuts and quarterly dividend checks still firmly in place, while WE are left to bear the burden of THEIR greed and recklessness. Fuck THEM!

We must confront the ominous truth that what happened on Wall Street on September 15, 2008 was only the dawn of what I fear will prove to be years of hardship for the people of the United States and the world. You can take that to the bank....

On second thought, stuff it under your mattress.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
APOCALIPSTICK NOW

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Interesting Times Posted by: johnjmccarthy
» Laugh so you do not cry Posted by: Grandma Crabby
Bad News
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 29, 2008 1:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We must confront the ominous truth that what happened on Wall Street on September 15, 2008 was only the dawn of what I fear will be years, possibly decades of hardship for the people of the United States and the world. You can take that th the bank....

....On second thought, stuff it under your mattress.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
APOCALIPSTICK NOW

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Forgive the double posting.... Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Bad News Posted by: weathered
Doom and gloom
Posted by: georgiaorwell on Sep 29, 2008 1:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our government has seriously proven itself to be both utterly irresponsible and utterly inept. Both the executive and legislative branches (Dems and Repugs) treat taxpayer dollars like money grows on trees. When a Treasury spokesperson responded to how the $700 million dollars was chosen for bailout, the response was: we just decided to throw out a 'large' figure.....Add to that the automakers bailout and increased funding for the war (which has been largely unnoticed) and it is clear that our republic run by lunatics is in charge of the asylum. It should be clear by now that this is not a democracy nor a democratically run republic - it's throwing money around like you're playing monopoly dollars.

How about we just eliminate any federal income tax on taxpayers who earn under $100,000. Eliminate all state income tax across the board. Tax large corporations and individuals who earn over 100,000, with a graduated index. Institute universal health care for all citizens and stop spending billions of dollars on all the elaborate military bases, overseas state department employees, ambassadors, and the like. What do they do, anyway?

Our elected officials have already judged Americans to be beyond stupid - this is why McSame/Palin can keep lying over and over and over and not expect to be called on it. News anchors like Brokaw act like they have lost their minds - overseas citizens cannot believe someone like Rush Lindbaugh is even allowed to have a hatemongering program like he has.

Is there any point in even bothering to vote? If you can believe RFK, Jr.'s article about voter fraud which is going to occur in 08, we might as well give up. No one in Congress cares enough to even address this issue with Diebold. Yet congressmen/women want to rush back to their districts to campaign. The way I see it - only about a forth of the Congress should be returned to their positions.

Americans - where are your spines? What does it take to unite the middle class to stand up and find your voices - take to the streets in every city in the US or converge on Washington - this is our last chance!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Mea culpa, georgiaorwell! Posted by: photon's feather
A Trillion 4 WAR, A Trillion 4 The Money Lenders, sounds Kosher to me!
Posted by: Ottomatic on Sep 29, 2008 4:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Raa, Ra, Shiz, Boom, Baa!
Click your heels and
Kick your Boot
Into the Ass of the
Middle Class
The C.E.O.s are Laughing
All the way to their Bank

The Largest Transfer of wealth in
The History of The World!
To the Cor-pirate C.E.O.s.

Time to get off:
The Cor-pirate Merry Go Round of
Lies, Spies, Torture and Deceit.
The System is broken,
The pipes have Burst!
There is a hole in the Economic Bucket
The Wealthy are siphoning all the Wealth.
When someone has all the chips in a Poker Game
The Game is Over.

Insatiable Greed and Corruption will never fulfill our needs.
The are the victims,
The Patsy,
The Poverty, Bodies and broken Families are everywhere.
We live in an occupied Country.
When we ask for accountability
The Black Army bashes in your head
In the Middle of Main Street.
When the Police arrest U.S. instead of serving and protecting us.
What good are they?
Pull the Plug
Our Government is 80% Privatized
It is a shambles
When Corporations run Government
It is FASCISM.

BUSH/CHAINY/McCRIPT
Are Aristo-Trash
They swear allegiance to their class:
Billionaires-R-Us.
They’ve been causing problems since the 70’s
What did you expect?
That’s their JOB!
Oil gouge after Oil gouging,
Torture after Terror,
Lying after spying,
Disaster after Disaster,
Tax Cut after Tax Cuts,
War after WAR,
Scam after scams,
Bailout after Bailouts,
Banking scandal after banking scandals!
Anyone else would be FIRED!
They give themselves a pat on the back and a Raise.
Socialized Medicine, Cor-pirate Welfare, Pensions and Bailouts are good for them but,
None for you.
Sorry!
We’re Broke.

You pay the bills and they get all the benefits.
Good for them and
Very Bad for you.
When will it stop?

When we STOP them!
They work for their own self interest.
They have broken the BANK!
When we try to exercise our Rights as Citizens we are treated like Criminals.
What’s that all about?
They are the CRIMINALS!
You are the victim.

We have tried everything, else.
SHUT IT DOWN!

STRIKE!

All you have to loose:
Is your Fear.

When the Horse is Dead,
GET OFF!
KICK the Horse Thief and the Forty Thieves
Out of The Black House.

Surge
Purge
Update and
REBOOT!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Paulson must go
Posted by: Democritus on Sep 29, 2008 4:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Henry Paulson is the front man for the biggest ripoff yet contemplated by this inept administration. As former CEO of Goldman Sachs, he knows who really butters his bread. After January 20 he plans to slink back to his former firm. Well, why don't we insist that he go back early and try to clean up the mess there? To have him in charge of a taxpayer bailout for banks is like having Adolf Eichmann judging the fate of Nazi war criminals.

We've heard this plaintive wail, "The sky is falling down," before--when the Bush administration argued for invading Iraq. The Chicken Littles in Congress went along then--with disastrous results--and now they're about to be taken in again. The solution to this so-called crisis is simple: Do nothing. Let the banks sort out their bad paper, take their losses, fold if they have to, and let the government pick up the pieces. Once the bankers see that they're not going to get any more free money, they'll take their lumps and the credit crisis will eventuallly take care of itself. After all, the greed of the investment bankers in marketing their deceptive derivatives is what caused the problem. Stern medicine is needed now so they won't be tempted to create another bubble somewhere else.

What's needed is a new Treasury Secretary who's not connected to the banks or investment companies. The stick he should wield to make the bankers clean up their own mess is the threat of nationalizing any bank that won't or can't cooperate. It had to be done with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It might have to be done with other private banks, as well. If we're going to have to pay for the pie, we shouldn't let the bankers eat it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Paulson must go Posted by: sliver
not enough pandering? please
Posted by: davescott on Sep 29, 2008 4:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You write "America is a country where our leaders dishonestly invoke the concepts of "Statesmanship" and "Seriousness" and their supposed hatred of "pandering" to justify ignoring what the public wants."

If this country suffers from a shortage of pandering, it's sure news to me.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» and you're in what grade? Posted by: photon's feather
omission
Posted by: davescott on Sep 29, 2008 4:34 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is cheap about your column is your failure to acknowledge that this bailout isn't a politically motivated move. There's nothing in it for anybody. That doesnt necessarily make it the right move, of course, but the nastiness of your tone is not appropriate to the difficulty these leaders face.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: omission Posted by: Symp
» RE: omission Posted by: dmstern
» RE: omission Posted by: Lauren
Welcome to the Future
Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Sep 29, 2008 4:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This whole hyped up and manufactured crisis is helping the moneyed class tighten its grip on the power structure of the US. As it has been mentioned once again in this article, we don't even know just whaat the "crisis" is, nor do we know how much money is "needed" to bail out these parasites.

Obviously, something has gone very wrong here, but no one in the government, including our beloved presidential candidates, wants to see that the problem is rooted in the very structure of our financial system. The whole thing is run by people who behave as if they're playing the roulette wheel at Vegas. This has to stop, obviously. Endless borrowing has made the US a nation of debtors, and this entire mentality, of "speculation" and spending money you do not have is destroying it more certainly than any phantom "terrorists." The US is weak and ripe for picking by the fascists, who probably planned it that way all along.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Welcome to the Future Posted by: Lauren
cocacolocao
Posted by: cocacolocao on Sep 29, 2008 4:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Fiscally Insane Bailout Bill Might Not Pass -- Here's 5 Reasons It Shouldn't

A: There is only one clear reason it shouldn't.
This is the perfect opportunity to remove the empty heads of the ruling elite who got us into this mess, once and for all, without bloodshed. Fuck it, I pay my taxes, I wanna see these assholes throw 'emselves out of windows. I want the family trusts dissolved, i want the estates redistributed to the homeless, and the GI's who went away and died for a system the system wasn't even prepared to look after, wdf?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Fascist Capitalism?
Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Sep 29, 2008 5:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is obvious that they've discovered fear is a very effective tool in manipulating the public and in silencing dissent. What has worked so well since 9/11 now will work in the economic sector, and we will see the shift to fascism complete itself as it occurs in all segments of our society.

This administration has reinstated fear in all facets of American life. When people are afraid, they can be conrolled. Couple that with simple repetition of propagandistic misinformation, and voila! The sheep are lining up for the slaughter.

It's going to happen because most people in the US just don't care. They don't want to know anything, they believe that what is happening does not and will not affect them. This makes it easy to vote for a vapid, brainless Nazi hockey mom and her political sugar daddy, or for the corporate lackey/disaster capitalist masquerading as a populist and his militaristic running mate. Well, they either don't care or else they don't believe there's anything they can do about it. So much for democracy, in any event. They've taken our civil liberties, brought back racism and bigotry, glorified anti-intellectualism, made "elite" a dirty word, and now they're going to take our money in the ultimate ponzi scheme. Brilliant.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Fascist Capitalism? Posted by: Lauren
remember the bankruptcy reform bill of 2005
Posted by: DrXyzzy on Sep 29, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something of a double standard here as we are asked for more than half a trillion to prop up failing business. How about concern for failing households?

Remember how the new Congress of 2005 rushed to pass the bankruptcy reform bill of 2005, aka the credit industry wish list. And it wasn't just the Republicans acting en bloc to continue squeezing the public - New Democrats wrote to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert urging him to advance the bill.

Judging from its place on the schedule, this action was far more important at the time than 1) basic health care for the 1 in 6 uninsured in this country 2) ending the war in Iraq with its terrible human cost and $11 billion per month price tag 3) regulating out-of-control lenders.

The major cause of personal bankruptcy per the Harvard bankruptcy study - medical bills.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» See: Joe Biden Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
dipconsult
Posted by: dipconsult on Sep 29, 2008 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From here in Europe it appears most important:

1. that taxpayer's money should not be risked to feather the nests of those bankers and derivatives inventors who are responsible for what is after all sheer dishonesty (knowingly repackaging bad stuff with good - think Chinese baby food). Such a precedent would be most deleterious for us in Europe (and indeed elsewhere in the world).

2. That the houseowner 'purchasers' of sub- prime mortgages, talked into taking out what they could not properly afford (typically the least wealthy, least educated, least capable of seeing the risk they were taking on)should not suffer where the really guilty get away with it. An effort must be made to identify all of the sub-prime mortgages, purchase them dirt cheap through the Fed. and then renegotiate for each the interest rates to what can be afforded. Keeping people in their houses, ending their nightmare, is first and foremost the way to help the economy - once houseowners feel safe an house prices stabilise, spending on main street will keep up.
please see our website: www.dipconsult.eu

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: dipconsult Posted by: VZEQICVA
Nice
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 29, 2008 5:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the bailout is stupid

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Yup
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 29, 2008 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stupid is as Stupid does! makes sense to me.

Privacy-Center

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Socialism
Posted by: vicentelll on Sep 29, 2008 5:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I started as an activist Jan.1969. During that time and for the next 15 years everything we did for the workers, the unions, the orgs. for groups, everything, was called socialism. Even when Hillary wanted universal health care it was call socialism. What do you call this bailout if not a form of socialism for the the few at the top. Tlamatini-vicente

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Can Americans Resist?
Posted by: had-enough on Sep 29, 2008 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real question here is do enough American voters have the balls to vote against the people who are doing this?

My Senator, Durbin, is supposedly one of the most liberal in Congress, but if this bailout passes, I'm voting against him, regardless of how he votes, because I know he won't have done anything proactive to stop it--there will be no Durbin filibuster, for instance, you can bet on that. On top of no impeachment, no more attempt at reform, etc. I've had it with him. He hasn't done anything to prove to me that he's working to change things--he and the others simply vote the paths of least resistance.

Will others do the same? I think not, and things will stay just the same. The American peoples' pitchforks and torches are made of tissue paper: lots of whining, and no definitive action, not even in their voting.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

If Bush can get these idiots' attention with empty threats,...
Posted by: photon's feather on Sep 29, 2008 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why can't we?!

First, let me say that I have always been registered as an Independent.

I am calling the Democratic 'Leadership' in both the House and the Senate and identifying myself as a Democrat. I am telling them that, if the House/Senate (as applicable) passes this outrage, I will vote third party in November. (I suppose that means Cynthia McKinney.) Further, I will not vote for a Representative that votes for this catastrophe - even if it means voting Republican. (I hope that doesn't stick in my throat!)

Then, (oh, were there a god to help me!), I am doing the same with the Republicans - with the modifications: I will vote for Ron Paul; for the House: I will vote for the Democrat.

Naturally, I haven't forgotten Obama and McCain. They are at the top of the list.

Link to Leadership names and positions in both chambers:

leadership positions

Phone number for Capitol Hill switchboard: 202-224-3121

Some research turned up toll-free numbers, but I do not how which may or may not be valid. (Try them all, if you have to.)

1-800-426-8073
1-800-833-6354
1-800-862-5530
1-800-828-0498

1-866-220-0044
1-866-808-0065
1-866-340-9281

1-877-851-6437
1-877-762-8762

1-888-355-3588

Should I never post another comment: I died from saying that so times that I would vote Republican - or, worse, that I am a Republican. (Well, it's a good cause.)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Everybody ought to grow up and accept this - the bailout is neccessary
Posted by: dmstern on Sep 29, 2008 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its just too easy to sit on the sidelines and gripe about this bailout. Republicans never stop looking for the angles, separating themselves from responsibility - dems too ashamed to admit they've been asleep at the regulatory wheel for so long. Everyone treating the word 'government' like its a dirty word. I say this is good - it will usher in a new era of strict regulation and accountability. The 'free market rules' era is over. And what do you know, everyone comes running home to mama - big government.

Never should have left in the first place.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Dreaming of a new era Posted by: jon B
congress is just as guilty as wall street
Posted by: xvictor on Sep 29, 2008 6:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The financial lobbyists bought every one of those congresscritters and are demanding payment in full, with their bush-supplied treasury secretary as the enforcer. The congress is complying, with heads bowed.

"you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

X-POLYGAMIST WIFE in ARIZONA
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Sep 29, 2008 6:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is worse, polygamist Warren Jeffs raping underage girls, or George W. Bush raping the American people?

Watch the video:

http://www.bankingonheaven.com

BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Its the republicans who are trying to fix this
Posted by: Romans1 on Sep 29, 2008 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democrats were trying to pass a quick bailout of their Wall Street friends who have given more to Democrats than Republicans this year. Not to mention the sweetheart mortgages Obama, Dodd, and the rest of the Democrats have received.

The Republicans blocked the plan to try to save the American middle class.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» The Truth Hurts Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
Faux compromise
Posted by: Cynic13 on Sep 29, 2008 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The latest version of the bailout supposedly has restrictions on CEO compensation, but the details are...

There's a limit on CEO compensation and/or bonuses over $500,000 when the Fed has bought $300 million or more of their company's assets.

What does that say?? Well, if they are going to give Paulson $350 million to start with - NO ONE company will have a buyout of $300 million or more. So technically, the CEO's are safe.

BOOOOOO on Congress! JUST SAY NO to bailout!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Faux compromise Posted by: lovercat2942
Playin the stocks is a gamble
Posted by: donl51 on Sep 29, 2008 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
so Wallstreet itself is one big organization of gamblers,many years ago,my father gave me GE. stock,wasn't a lot,but he said they had potencial to grow...or fail,,,they grew of course,but I sold before too long and bought ee,U.S.savings bonds and I'm a lot happier for that move.My education is in Advertising,marketing,art and the fine arts,,not business,my feeling is this...you gamble,you win,fine!...you loose,tough shit!,you're the rep. responsible for whose money you're investing to make you and them wealthier!!you overbuy a home,car,etc,you splurge on anothers money,it's you who is responsible...especially to those where their entire retirement package is in stocks...it's to these people I feel bad,just like insurance firms and investment house's....they all went overboard taking big bonuses,etc etc,,leaving their investor in a lurch!!I say you don't [we don't bail out the company,help the investors ok,let the company's go under,nothing lasts forever,thats life...look what outsourcings done to our once prosperous nation...screw Bush and his cronies,screw the fake economists w/Fox's bulls and Bears....we're getting a recession no matter what!!!...we bail those asshole companies out...it'll never get better or end!!!....we also don't need a 650 bil $ defence buget either....the rethugs blame the dummycrats for big gov.and big spending!!,who's been spending this country into the poor house?!......PS vote mcsame/palin.put a gun to your head pull trigger!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

When the piper calls...
Posted by: warrior woman on Sep 29, 2008 6:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For quite some time now, I have been worrying about the piper getting paid. As our treasury/govt bills mount, when will the bills come due? At whatever time that is, how will we pay them?

Seems to me a perfect "conservative" storm brewing. That is, when we have to pay the trillions of dollars owed, other budget items will/must be cut. You can imagine what that will be, things such as public education, medicare, social security going private, etc etc. That will be the time that the no govt/ small govt people win and perhaps that is one of the goals of the collapse, buried deeply below the debt. Our nation can not go on "charging" everything that we do into the future as though it will never have to be paid back. It's always got to be paid back. It doesn't just disappear.

The larger question is this exactly what has been orchestrated?? The financial version of 9/11?? It's like the final plays in a close game. 1st and goal, touchdown, extra point or 2 point conversion?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

sgtmajor
Posted by: seazen on Sep 29, 2008 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think we all have to be honest about the current situation and about or own reaction to it or this again will become a game of blame/revenge rather than an effort to attain a meaningful resolution.

The world's financial transactions system is a nervous system for the global economy and is exceedingly complex.

This system has become mortally wounded by decades of greed, corruption, and the failure of governments to properly enforce existing rules and regulations.

No one has anything close to a perfect understanding of this complex system and anyone who pretends that they do is lying or delusional.

There will be no simple, short-term, universally agreed upon solution that is guaranteed to make the problem go away.

The "public" - folks like us understand what is going on the least and we are justifiably angry and distrustful of the Administration and anyone that has ever been connected to Wall Street. We are also generally spoiled and tend to want immediate gratification and are unwilling to commit to long term participation in any endeavor. This is why we have negative savings and why we have been buying more than we need.

So the real issue today is one of defining the long term goals and developing an effective long term strategy of reaching them. If you look around, this "bailout" problem has become a magnet for ideas that support a broad range of other systemic needs from investments in infrastructure, investment in green technologies, a quick fix for all outstanding badly structured mortgages, an end of overcompensation for CEOs, tighter regulation of all financial institutions, etc.

Unfortunately, the first step is enact the best short term compromise that our current political system will accept. No one will love it no matter what it looks like. No one will understand how that one step by itself will play out over the coming months. But paralysis will bring certain economic failure.

If our intent is to bring a more rational, transparent, democratic, honest financial system into practice that we have to stay at it - for years. If our intent is to punish somebody today, we are not contributing a thing to the greater goal.

I think we all need to commit ourselves to working together to push as hard as we can at all levels to get this country back on track with the realization that every element of every step will include some compromise. To me it makes the election all that more important. It makes the way we act and react to all the elements of injustice, greed, secrecy, etc. in our work, personal, and political environments.

This is going to be a long march not a skirmish.

Put on your boots.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: sgtmajor Posted by: VZEQICVA
There are other Alternatives to this BailOut
Posted by: Tryswappingit on Sep 29, 2008 6:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suggested a Federal Bailout plan back in Jul this year. But this is not exactly what I was suggesting. Now its evident to see more greedy professionals at work behind the scene. The TAXPAYER GOT RIPPED OFF (and we are going to take it where the SUN DONT SHINE and our CHILDREN ARE TOO!!!), the government just sold off WaMu directly to JPM!! WAIT!! WAIT!!! WAIT!!! THIS PLAN IS NOT THE ANSWER... why, we have been undergoing an econmic crisis since 2005, when the housing bubble busted... um, homeowners have been losing their homes, why a PLAN all the sudden??? Oh yes, the financial industry is going to hell... wait, were they not the ones that suggested the MARKET TAKE ITS COURSE. Oh but when LEH goes bankrupt - we see the top federal governement officials along with their fraternity brothers come to the rescue with a Government Bailout - for the sake of their livelihood!! HELL NO!! THIS PLAN IS GOING TO RAPE US!!! RAPE OUR CHILDREN!! We should let the market take its course, homeowners are already hurting, this bailout plan is for only the rich via their business entities and how does this help the homeowner? Lets not forget there were homeowners who bought homes in 2005, right when the housing bubble cracked, those (3/1 and 5/1 ARMS) are just starting to reset... this means the shake-out for a whole lot of homeowners starts now ... but is this plan for the homeowners or them? Why give the money to them, because they know how to handle money and the common person does not? B.S. Even if that was the case, if you gave the money directly to the people, there would not be a reason for government oversight. Which is now required, but just how? Another government task? With what? Another government instition? - one that requires more government people? What to hang out at the same parties? I guess we do nothing, and just take it, take it where the sun don't shine and watch our children get raped as we look for them to support us because we've been taxed soo much and we were unable to retire... but these lawmakers and their buddies (and their children) get to retire in style!!! Oh, and to believe both Democrats and Republicans are in with this plan, only further suggests our Politicians are supporting corrupt industries!! This Election, lets remove all of them and replace them with the opposite party, just to radically change things up. Rationally, the most practical approach would be to establish a system that allows homeowners to trade their homes, i.e. MyHouse4Trade.com or www.TrySwappingIt.com , freeze all ARMs, zero out the debt with those who lent money to the banks, return the remaining amount back into the treasury. Then ask where is this financial crisis, Wall Street? If so, let the market takes its course there!!! Those equities were overinflated since the brokers and fancy investors have been chasing earnings since the 90's - its time we get back to value investing!! All this Plan will do is screw the common man, and further put our country into debt!!! GOD SAVE AMERICA - PLEASE!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» the finance boys Posted by: jon B
» RE: the finance boys Posted by: Lauren
» big bank laundry Posted by: jon B
Just another day in the fall of the empire
Posted by: jon B on Sep 29, 2008 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This "bailout" is nothing but an attempt to continue to mask the obvious, that the U.S. is a failing empire.

The national debt was about $10 trillion and now they want the debt ceiling raised to $11.3 trillion. What's a trillion here and there? It might someday add up to something, eh?

The bailout won't change the basic fact that the housing bubble isn't over. Until the home prices level off to a bottom (probably at least three years hence) then the $700 billion is only a speed bump to try and slow the credit crunch. A year or so from now, "hello?!? Can we have another bailout?"

The bailout also won't change the problem of peak oil. The fact is that the U.S. is completely unprepared to change its' selfish energy habits flying in the face of diminishing supplies of global oil.

The bailout also won't end two expensive wars nor close useless military bases around the world. The bailout won't reduce the military-industrial complex, now estimated as costing $1 trillion per year.

The dogmatic "American exceptionalism" won't allow the majority of Americans to wake up and realize that we are live witnesses amid our own fall.

Oh, maybe the bailout will "stabilize" things for a short time, but more shoes will clunk to the floor. The economic system that now represents the U.S. is nothing more than a kleptocracy. It's corruption has become completely entwined from Wall Street to D.C. and since at least 1998 (Long Term Capital Management), to 2002 (the era of accounting irregularities...to be kind in description) to now (the housing Ponzi Scheme) the evidence has been mounting that the American economic system is built on the bedrock of outright scam.

"Let the buyer beware." Isn't that the basis of all transactions in the U.S.? We've been warned to beware of the system and ignored it.

I leave you with the words of a top scam artist. Former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan in early 2004 advised consumers (that would be a financial word for citizens) to purchase adjustable rate mortgages (ARMs) when at the time the fed rate was about 2%. Any idiot should have ignored him as the only adjustment possible in rate would have been UP! But at the time Greenspan the scam artist was considered a savior/genuis of some sort. His advise was considered rock solid. He should be in jail.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» jailed? Posted by: jon B
The 'Dog-shit' Protest
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Sep 29, 2008 7:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So the Wall St fatcats get all the money and the people get their usual shit-on economics. Personally I think if we pay them off we owe nothing to the Government and WE OWN WALL ST.
Now, since we really are getting nothing,let's give them something to remember how they fucked us.
All dog-walkers,street walkers and their johns should dump all their godshit and used condoms all over the steps of the Dow, Nasdaq and the SAP. Let it overflow to all the commodities traders. Go to an old folks home and find all the folks with urinebags.Offer to take them for a 'constitutional' and go over to Wall St. There you can let those urinebags flow and then they will get a good dose of 'trickled on' economics.
If you think that's harsh,remember the French Revolution. They took care of their 'Greedy Rich' with a little trip to the guillotine. That was too quick. I think watching some Wall Streeter trying to sweep shit off their $2000 suits would be much more entertaining....and fitting!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

At this point, both parties need to undo the corporate/wealthy elite tax breaks that were pushed by
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 29, 2008 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kennedy, Raygun, and Bush. Eisenhower was the last president to raise taxes on the wealthiest corporations which might have helped reduce the severity of the recession. I don't see Obama or Mccain even wanting to look at this ongoing problem. People would not be tempted to gamble on Wall $treet if the capital gains tax rates were just the way they were prior to Kennedy. At this point, it's too late to stop the bailout since this was planned months before.

At least Nader is brave enough to give it a try even if he is to face total persecution from the corporate media and both parties.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Never again
Posted by: BeckyD on Sep 29, 2008 7:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The next time some factory closes or relocates to China or Mexico putting hundreds or thousands out of work, I do not want to hear any politician of any party saying ANYTHING about how 'that's just how free markets are,' or that there's nothing they can do about it.

If they can do this, they can do anything. All this is proving is who is really in charge around here, and it isn't the voters.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Never again Posted by: VZEQICVA
and you still want to vote democratic
Posted by: grkjr on Sep 29, 2008 7:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if this does not wake you up... nothing will and we do indeed deserve the future we have been tracking towards for the last 30 years.. The democrats are just as much to blame as the republicans as witnessed last night as they came out of hiding to advocate for the bail out based upon "fear".. why is it that after the debates and last night song and dance we still want the "least of the two evils" because we live in "fear" and "hope".. versus reality.. the reality of obama and mccain thinking too much the same on WAR, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC POLICY.. they are on the same track..even down to identifying the enemy as anyone who thinks differently then us.. against our national interests and for their own.. WAKE UP VOTE FOR NADER... or simply vote your representative back into office for doing such a great job and live with the results and stop crying except when you look into the mirror and see the real culprit who has tolerated this all along.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

A nationwide strike
Posted by: willymack on Sep 29, 2008 7:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would bring the arrogant, sneering crooks on Wall street, and their lackies in government to their knees. Don't forget, they've got a lot more to lose than ordinary citizens. So are we afraid of losing our crappy jobs, our fraudulent or non-exsistent "benefits", or is it that important to pretend everything's OK, and our government and capitalist overlords are looking out for our best interests? Afraid of losing your mortgaged-to-the-hilt house? Do you imagine that the crooks in businesses can command enough Blackwater thugs to forcibly remove all of us from our houses? This apparently is the illusion they've created, but the REAL power is still in the hands of ordinary citizens, if they'd only choose to act in concert.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: A nationwide strike Posted by: roncypert
No slight intended
Posted by: roncypert on Sep 29, 2008 7:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to "NYU's Nouriel Roubini, the visionary who had been predicting this meltdown", but it didn't take a visionary to see this coming. The only quality needed to see this coming was that of "paying attention". I have no title before my name nor initials after it, but I saw it coming a long time ago. It was inevitable given the policies being followed. The only reason that it hit homes and homeowners first was because they had the least protection.

I still keeping hearing "these people took out mortgages which they knew they couldn't afford".
Untrue. The real estate industry, the financial industry, the economic punditry and even the government, told them that not only could they do it, but it was a good idea for them to do so.

The shit ain't even close to the fan yet.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: No slight intended Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: No slight intended Posted by: VZEQICVA
Both Sides Agree on This Issue
Posted by: greatdanes on Sep 29, 2008 8:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bail Out has United Democrats and Republicans that This Bill is the Worse Fix for America!
Anyone that Votes for this Wall Street Robbery of the Citizens should be Run Out of the Office if not the Country!

The RUSH to get this done Should WARN ALL ...something's NOT Right. Quick sign the contract..... We all saw this Train Wreck coming...How come Our Leaders Didn't, or so they say?

If your that Stupid you shouldn't be in office. Pelosi, Reid,Frank, Dodd, Paulson and Bush . Remember them....for the Inquest which will follow this crisis. Heads Must Roll. All Heads from the Top to the mail room, must be held accountable for this SELL OUT of TRUST of the American People.

Americans Can Recover from a DEPRESSION, but We Can not recover from a "FASCIST STATE".

If the Candidates running for President vote for this .....Forgetaboutit!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Both Sides Agree on This Issue Posted by: stopthemaddness2
WallStreet -DUBUA robbed us - they are preparing for the GREAT DEPRESSION THAT IS COMING
Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Sep 29, 2008 8:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This entire thing is being done to cover themselves for the crash that is on its way. We will all be govern by ONE BANK. Watch what I tell you. That is the goal. ONE BANK SYSTEM ruled and ran by the government. PERIOD!!! This Bailout is the 10% of super rich, just bracing themselves for the total collapse that is on its way. And Yes, OBAMA will be elected. WHY? So all of the blame will be under him. What a plan. What a scam. What a national highway robbery, what a pack of lies, what evil is this?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

ONE BIG BAIL OUT LEADING TO ONE NATIONAL BANK DO NOT BUY THE HYPE
Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Sep 29, 2008 8:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are in big trouble. The bail out is a final handout to secure BUSH, HIS CRONIES, WALL STREET and the SUPER 10%. They will have money, and we won't. The 2nd GREAT DEPRESSION is on it way, has already begun. Do not believe the hype you have read or been told. This is so clear. I don't know why I didn't see it before. Why did they resist having OVERSIGHT if it was a clear case of help? Why the resistance? Banks are still faltering and will continue. Wachovia was just bought out by Citigroup and Washington Mutual was bought out by Morgan Chase.

Who's next? All of them, until they all become ONE NATIONAL USA BANKING SYSTEM. And all the control of all finances will be under ONE RULE. And the Depression will be the major item of terror that will force us all into a total collaspe and decline in all civil liberties and who knows where it will stop! Don't buy this hype. Just watch the banks. Just watch the continual decline!!! Be aware. Get prepared. Save as much as you can, CASH!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Lehman Bros. ...
Posted by: Gisele on Sep 29, 2008 8:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a really Dumb question? If this bailout is meant in part to cover the asses of Lehman Bros., and Morgan and the kids...why don't they take out some of the funds to save their businesses, from their shares in the Federal Reserve? They've been a part of it since it's inception.

I mean really...it's not like the FR doesn't have it, just ask Rothschild. How in hell can this type of filth be happening in this day and age?

This "problem" has been coming for years, gaining momentum after Georgie took office...suddenly the American system is under attack from within, and everyone starts screaming for more money. Fear mongering is working to perfection....

Those that CAUSED the problem are rewarded for their efforts with golden parachutes that are mind numbing in size and scope, and they get rescued by the very people they were raping to make their obscene profits?! It's almost reminiscent of making a rape victim pay for their own test kits...so it might look good to some folks after all.

In the process of the rescue that should never take place, they're causing untold numbers of generations of future Americans, to become slaves to those who aren't even fit to untie the shoe of a homeless person! WTF? I'm missing some common sense here folks!

I don't care if you're white, black, red, brown, or pink with purple polka dots...if this goes through...you're ALL slaves, because this debt will NEVER be paid in full. The size of the loan ensures that - maybe that's why they picked such a lovely number to play with. It gives them total coverage, with money left to play with - and ensures that in future no one will have the strength to stand up and say "NO".

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Repeal of Depression-Era Law Planted Seeds for Current Crisis -- and the Coming 2nd Great Depression
Posted by: SkeeterVT1 on Sep 29, 2008 9:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it amazing that in all the discussion of how to resolve our country's worsening financial crisis, nobody has discussed its root cause.

That root cause is the decision in 1999 by the then-Republican-controlled Congress -- with the blessing of Democratic President Bill Clinton -- to repeal the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933.

This Depression-era law was passed precisely to prevent the kind of greedy deals and other shenanigans on Wall Street that lie at the heart of our current crisis.

Glass-Steagall barred Main Street banks and Wall Street financial firms from entering into each other's business turf. It also barred them from buying each other out.

The repeal of Glass-Steagall paved the way not only for the intermingling of Wall Street and Main Street, but when combined with the total lack of regulatory enforcement by both the Clinton and Bush administrations, it also created the climate of rampant greed behind these firms' getting into sub-prime mortgages.

As far as I'm concerned, the bailout plan now being put forward in Congress isn't worth the paper it's printed on, because only the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall can ensure that the financial shenanigans at the heart of the current crisis will not be allowed to re-occur.

Had Glass-Steagall not been repealed, we would not be going through this crisis; it was precisely because of the unhealthy intermingling of Wall Street and Main Street in the 1920s that led to the stock market crash of 1929 and the Great Depression.

With the removal of Glass-Steagall in the mad rush to deregulate the financial industry, the seeds have been planted for another market crash and a second Great Depression -- and it's already too late to stop it from happening.

"Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it," warned the philosopher George Santayana. Get ready for hard times, folks. They're definitely a-coming again.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» We're actually on your side, Anna Posted by: photon's feather
» I'm getting sick of repeating this: Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: I'm getting sick of repeating this: Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
Paused in my calling to post:
Posted by: photon's feather on Sep 29, 2008 9:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vote No Bailout

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Two big thumbs down on the Bush/Paulson bailout plan.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 29, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was a bailout bill fence-sitter until the House started debating the Bush/Paulson plan today on C-SPAN.

Leaning towards approval, I suddenly fell off the fence into the "Not no, but HELL NO!" side.

A representative from Texas gave me the shove I needed to make a stand by asking rhetorically. "Who will administer the bailout plan?"

ANSWER: Because of its enormity, the plan's management will be OUTSOURCED to the same greedy Wall Street gang that got us into this mess.

Unfuckingbelievable!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Your Money or Your Life
Posted by: ava1984 on Sep 29, 2008 9:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who doesn't recognize this 'bail out' as daylight robbery is ignoring reality, so what else is new?
The neo-cons, Rapepublicans have had it so good for so long; they refuse to consider any other way to exist.
The Dems are far from innocent in debacles here and abroad; a few stalwarts fight the good fight. Of course, Dennis Kucinich can't do everything; and, he and the unhappy few who insist on doing their jobs might as well be invisible. If it's not on TV, it didn't happen!
How surprised Paulson seemed when we didn't roll over and just say oh, save us pappy; it was actually a pleasure to watch Paulson cringe and sweat as he tried to present his two and one half pages of 'proposals' to Save The Economy! Can we say ransom note? NO SALE!
Unless most of the pain is felt by the greedy cannibals who caused this; any, plan is DOA as far as most of us is concerned!
What they really want is our money AND our lives. Mission damn near accomplished!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Not a dime worth of difference between Rupugs and Dems
Posted by: MeyravLevine on Sep 29, 2008 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if you had any doubts that we actually had a 2 distinct political groups in US, this bailout plan should be a wake up call.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Democrats are the Biggest Pushers of the Bailout
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Sep 29, 2008 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can we put the kibosh on all the pro Democrat articles on this site?

When will people wake up to the fact that they are throwing their vote away when they vote Democrat or Republican?

I know people like to turn that around and say voting for a 3rd party is throwing one's vote away but where is the logic in that?

For one, voting is meaningless. How many elections are decided by one vote? How many in recent memory? So if you do go and vote, you can vote for anyone and the consequences of such a decision will be nil. You are too small by yourself to make a difference.

Second, if you vote, and elect dishonest incompetent leaders from the 2 main parties who each election cycle tout how they are going to clean up and fix Washington only to engage in the same nepotistic corrupt practices they have always engaged in, you deserve these politicians.

Congress right now has a lower approval rating than Bush. And yet Congress has a reelection rate of around 95%. We keep reelecting these idiots time and time again.

Senator Chris Dodd and Representative Barney Frank, both Democrats are the ones spearheading this bailout deal.


$700 billion is $2300 per citizen. $2300 you will lose to taxes or inflation depending on how they decide to pay for it.


So many liberals, after 8 long years of Bush will take a Democrat, any Democrat, over a Republican, and it doesn't even matter if the Democrat has an identical voting record to the Republican.

Can we all stop acting like complete retards?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

WHITES,BLACKS, LATINOS,GAYS, FEMALES, MALES, REPUB, DEMOCRATS, WAKE UP PLEASE!!! WE'RE N BIG TROUBLE
Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Sep 29, 2008 9:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wake up! Please WAKE UP! It does not matter whether you are Black, White, Green, Latino, Republican, Democrat, Independent, Libertarian, Female, Male, or Gay... we are all in hot soup!

This BAILOUT is just the beginning of a Great Depression, worse than that of the 1930's.
Bush, Wallstreet Fat Cats, and the Super Rich 10% that run this country, have just pulled out and been paid out an obscene amount of money to SECURE themselves in what will become a huge economic downfall. They will have all the money. We won't have any. If you aren't in the $350 - $550 million a year, you are in big trouble. If you have money, buy land, gold, property, and save as much cash as you can. This is very serious folks... very very grave and serious times. Buy what the government buys, that will be the only saving grace...and pray!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

HOUSE REPORTED SET TO VOTE IN A FEW HOURS!!
Posted by: photon's feather on Sep 29, 2008 9:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Analysis and Discussion at Think Progress

Lots of links to different sources.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

October 2008 Elections Suspended
Posted by: cyr3n on Sep 29, 2008 9:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hello~ did you see this??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW2q4VNFBXw
Bushy wants to suspend elections under a "national emergency". This was the plan all along. Regardless of whether the plan is approved or not, he'll make the power-grab and declare martial law. We are one totalitarian tip toe away from a complete dictatorship.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Won't Happen Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» DON'T BE SUCH AN ASS!! Posted by: photon's feather
Dennis Kucinich: This Bailout Is Driven By Fear, Not Fact
Posted by: fanny666 on Sep 29, 2008 10:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now THIS is what the Democrats should be aspiring to!

Kucinich on the Bailout Plan

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

An Ironic turn of events, the House votes.....
Posted by: common intelligence on Sep 29, 2008 11:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That reason is there is going to be a change. And it will point to a better direction. I'm not talking about Obama change, I'm talking about that this false economic system that has been Forced upon the people is going to end. Finally, there is an overwhelming recognition that Americans must change there habitual tendancies of blindly lolly gagging while the bastards in Washington screw it's people.

As I write the congress actually shows signes of life. To bad it's at another fear mongered crisis pont with a gun up against it's head.
To bad that the fascists are forcing the hand. And the out come may not be perfectly just the way we are hoping, at the moment.

But which ever way the vote goes the follow up, that means as results will show, will definitely show the "true" reality of the system in all it's glorious light with no doubt.

Heads will roll. If the Trillion dolar bail out goes through and that it doesn't have provisions for accountability, enforcement, and Tax payers get screwed again, then we can just move on as self empowered individuals, all well realizing we are and have always been on our own and should never , ever buy into being bamboozaled ever again.

For me I never have and live my life accordingly. Ask not that the "system" be trusted to do anything on my behalf, and expect not that it will. It has no personal interest in me at all but to the momentum of an economic model that truely has the benefits of the powers that control the different fascits that take on a philosophy being the only ones qualified to determine the path humanity should take.

As it is that philosophy has put into play that of suffering of billions for the benefit of a few million.

The fact is many of us have every capability to lead this country and therefore this world. But our voices and views are shugged aside as invalid. This is why I choose the life I have of living within my means yet continualy striving to overcome the barriers the system throws infront of my means to live and find my own way.

Well it looks like the Democrats are voting as I finish this, to the bail out now in overwhelming numbers Demos allow a 141 yeas and 94 nays. Curiously enough the Repuks are voting 133 nay to 65 yea's. This simply means that as a party The Democrats are a bunch of chicken shit bastards too! And the republicans well they just aren't getting their way no matter what.

However, that is 207 yeas to 226 nays! Should we thank the repuks?
Time will tell? Bear in mind though...the republicans seem to still controll congress. Ironic huh?

And di you hear that when the House President tried to push through a Yea vote with a Voice call of votes? She started to say the yeas have it until she was drowned out by a motion to registar the votes. Whew that was close. But now what?

So my personal view stands pat. Fucjk the American government to hell! So now I ask, "Why vote for Obama?"

"See the new boss, the same as the old boss..."

Even though the Demos made great changes to the BailOut bill they caved in by not imposing serious "to the penny" accountability and enforcement.

But maybe, just maybe this is a ploy to get votes in November? Ya think? And then In January we reem the Bush power structure and return to a constitutional government?
DON'T BET ON IT JACK !

Never be conned by the dangling carrot.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Rejected!
Posted by: fanny666 on Sep 29, 2008 11:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rejected in the House

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Republicans save the day Posted by: eiu101
» Republicans save the day.. I'm one of them Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» Look at the House vote. Posted by: Romans1
» RE: Look at the House vote. Posted by: GrantBurkeVT
» RE:publicans , BUt NOT MCCAIN! Posted by: common intelligence
Repugnicans didn't save the day
Posted by: xvictor on Sep 29, 2008 1:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was not surprised to learn that Republiscums who voted against the bailout measure did so because the Dems wanted to tack on other social benefits like extending unemployment insurance and modifying homeowner foreclosure rules to the bill.

Just when I was about to praise them....

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Laugh so you do not cry
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Sep 29, 2008 2:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watching this economic mess unfold is worse than the bad LSD flashbacks Ronald Reagan warned me about!

I have to laugh in order to avoid going nuts so I put together a silly video on one of the root causes of the current mess, predatory lending.

Granny's crazy videos = Go get a chuckle!

Deregulation deserves blame but perhaps even worse is how the regulations that do exist were stolen out of Fast Buck Freddie's playbook. Over the years, banks and lending institutions were allowed to raise rates thru the roof and sell loans that were written in such a way that even a perfect payment record would never give it paid off. Car title rip off places are the perfect example but the same practices were all over the mortgage industry too. The ass-holes made tons of money while laughing at the stupidity of their customers.

This entire fiasco is a disaster years in the making. Trickle down economics has certainly shown itself to be voodoo economics. Gag, I hate agreeing with a Bush.

Luv,
Granny

Granny's crazy videos = Go get a chuckle!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Here's A PERFECT Solution....
Posted by: Animal on Sep 29, 2008 3:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say seize all the assets, salary, bonuses, stock options, and golden parachutes of those responsible. They fucked it up, make them pay for it. Why should we get stuck with the tab for their greed and incompetence?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

BREAKING NEWS – PELOSI TRYING AGAIN!!!
Posted by: truthlover on Sep 29, 2008 3:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch out - we're not out of the woods. She just called a meeting to have another go at it.

Take action!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Homes Are Far Too Over-valued Now
Posted by: femmyv on Sep 29, 2008 3:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry, you shouldn't have bought a house as an investment, you should have bought a place to live. Stop looking for anyone to support your brick of the ponzi scheme that home ownership has become and start thinking of it as your own long-term asset.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Right Wing Psychoholic In Denial
Posted by: Right Wing Psychoholic In Denial on Sep 30, 2008 11:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nancy Pelosi shouldn't have made partisan comments over such a serious bailout matter.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

liz Anderson
Posted by: emmaliz on Sep 30, 2008 3:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's easy to demand no bailout when your life does not depend on the health of the market. I have been screaming for years about the lending practices and allowing the packaging and sale of loans, but I am retired, raising an 8 year old child and I am dependent on the health of the market. TheRepublicans should pay for what has and is going on, and the CEO's should not get their parachutes. They should get investigated thoroughly and should have to go to prison for fraud. But along the way, lets not threaten our entire financial underpinnings. I have been working since I was 11 years old, saved all I could and don't think I deserve to lose it all because so many people are "angry". There is plenty of time to go after these crooks when Obama is in office.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]