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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

10 Ways to Bail Out Wall Street (and Main Street) Without Soaking Taxpayers in Debt

By Chuck Collins and Dedrick Muhammad, AlterNet. Posted September 25, 2008.


Who says we need to borrow a trillion dollars to save Wall Street from its own excesses?
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As Congress debates the particulars of the Bush-Paulson bailout, one key question has gone largely unexplored: Who will pay for this mess?

Lawmakers in Congress appear to have assumed that the federal government will simply borrow more money to foot the bill for the bailout. The national debt ceiling will rise to a whopping $11.3 trillion, up from $8 trillion a year ago.

But this rush to borrowing merely shifts the bailout burden onto the backs of future taxpayers. Congress needs to change course -- and develop a "pay as we go" plan that makes Wall Street pay.

The lion's share of bailout funding should come from the high-finance gamblers and the wealthy CEOs who have so profited from our casino economy.

Funding the Bailout: Basic Principles

  • Wall Street and speculators should pay now for the mess they created.

  • Instead of borrowing from the super-wealthy beneficiaries of the casino economy, we should tax them.

  • Any bailout should stimulate the real economy with investments in Main Street, not just Wall Street.


Broadening the Bailout Dollars

The debate over the bailout has so far concentrated on the $700 billion purchase of "troubled assets" proposed by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. A real "bailout" would also target the troubled households of working American families. A $200 billion "Main Street Stimulus Package" could bolster the real economy and those left vulnerable by the subprime mortgage meltdown. This package should include:

  • A $130 billion annual investment in renewable energy to stimulate good jobs anchored in local economies and reduce our dependency on oil.

  • A $50 billion outlay to help keep people in foreclosed homes through refinancing and creating new homeownership and housing opportunities. These funds could also help those locked out of the American Dream to purchase homes through nonspeculative mortgage programs.

  • A $20 billion aid package to states to address the squeeze on state and local government services that declining tax revenues are now forcing.


A Responsible Plan to Pay for Recovery: $900 Billion in New Revenue

Below is our 10-point program to pay for this broader bailout. This plan would generate $900 billion a year until the costs of the bailout and stimulus program are paid for.

1. A Securities Transaction Tax: $100 Billion

A fair plan to pay for the bailout should include a modest financial transaction tax on the buying and selling of stock and other financial products. A penny on every $4 invested would generate $100 billion a year. Other European countries already tax stock transactions, and these transaction taxes effectively discourage speculation.

2. A Wealth Tax Surcharge on Households with $10 Million: $300 billion

Congress should institute a modest wealth tax surcharge on households with a net worth of more than $10 million. These households currently own and control more than 20 percent of the nation's private wealth. They have realized huge gains from the manipulation of capital markets and the asset bubbles that created the current crisis. A modest surcharge -- no more than 3 percent -- could generate more than $300 billion.

3. A Corporate Minimum Income Tax: $60 Billion

In August, the Government Accountability Office reported that two-thirds of U.S. corporations paid no income taxes between 1998 and 2005. These corporations paid nothing toward our shared expenses of defense, environmental protection, public health and education. Ordinary taxpayers should not be left holding this bag. A minimum corporate income tax should contribute toward the bailout.

4. A "Disgorgement" Recovery From Profligate CEOs: $40 Billion

Until several weeks ago, top CEOs and managers were collecting massive salaries and fees while they told the rest of us that "everything is fine." These CEOs gorged themselves and have taken the money and run. The four biggest investment banks on Wall Street shelled out $30 billion in bonuses last year. One of them, Lehman Brothers, has just gone under. Another, Bear Stearns, was bailed out earlier this year. To help pay for recovery, the new Treasury authority should seek the payback of executive compensation inappropriately extracted in the years before the Wall Street meltdown.

5. An Income Tax Surcharge on Incomes Over $5 Million: $105 Billion

A portion of the bailout cost should be financed with an emergency income tax surcharge on incomes over $5 million. Wealthy investors have been the big winners in the unregulated bubble economy. They have watched their incomes skyrocket over the last 25 years. Meanwhile, President George W. Bush has cut their taxes for seven years. Instituting a 50 percent tax rate on income over $5 million and a 70 percent rate on income over $10 million would generate $105 billion a year until the bailout is paid for.

6. An End to Overseas Corporate Tax Havens: $100 Billion

Congress should close down corporate tax havens that allow corporations to game the system and cut their taxes, sometimes to zero. This step would generate $100 billion from profitable companies that have paid no taxes over the last decade.

7. The Elimination of Subsidies for Excessive CEO Pay: $20 Billion

As taxpayers, we subsidize excessive CEO pay, through a host of tax loopholes, to the tune of $20 billion a year. Congress should close these loopholes, including the accounting gimmicks that permit companies to report one set of earnings to shareholders and a different, lower number to Uncle Sam.

8. The Elimination of the Tax Preference for Capital Gains: $95 Billion

The mega-windfalls that Wall Street executives have pocketed over recent years will be generating additional income, in the form of dividends and capital games, for years to come. Under current tax law, dividend and capital gains income faces a mere 15 percent tax rate, while income from actual work can be taxed at rates up to 35 percent. Taxing wealth and work at the same rates would generate $95 billion a year in revenue.

9. A Progressive Inheritance Tax: $60 Billion

In the near future, the moguls of the past quarter-century will be passing off the scene and leaving behind dynastic-size fortunes. A portion of this wealth should be taxed. A progressive estate tax on estates over $2 million -- $4 million for a couple -- could generate $60 billion a year in the short term and much more in outlying decades.

10. The Elimination of the Mansion Subsidy: $20 Billion

Wealthy taxpayers can currently deduct their mansion mortgage interest off their taxes. The richest 2 percent of U.S. households do not need to be subsidized by American taxpayers. Capping the home mortgage interest deduction on that portion of mortgage payments that exceeds $200,000 per year would generate $20 billion a year.

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See more stories tagged with: bush, paulson, bailout

Chuck Collins is a senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies, where he coordinates the Working Group on Extreme Inequality.

Dedrick Muhammad is a senior organizer and research associate at the Institute for Policy Studies and author of "40 Years Later: The Unrealized American Dream." Muhammad is also the "Racial Wealth Divide" coordinator at United for a Fair Economy and co-author of UFE's report "The State of the Dream: Enduring Disparities in Black and White."

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Truly Great Ideas but ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 25, 2008 12:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
until we know what is on the books of the banks and clean them up, the credit freeze will go on.

This shell game of MBS valuation has only one purpose, to protect the biggest financial companies in the country. A cool 99% of the toxic paper as they call it is at fewer than 25-30 institutions. Almost all of these are Wall Street institutions hence the sweet 700 billion bailout. It's good to have lobbied both parties with billions of dollars over these last ten years.

And another large inconvenience is coming this way, a tsunami of bad debt bigger than the subprime crisis. You thought this was over? Guess again. It will be another 3 years at least before the debt defaults are done with and here's the graph to prove it ...

The Next Default Wave !

As you can see we aren't even 50% of the way through this debacle and is costing some 50 billion a month in foreclosures.

Bush told us tonight that MBS , Mortgage Backed Securities, were "Cheap". Well there going to get a lot cheaper, so the MBS we buy now will lose value and the Tax Payer will cover the loss. With the Paulson Bush approach 700 billion is just a down payment.

Until the banks come clean the credit crisis will not end and then the next mortgage default wave will hit us. Get ready for a few more years of really bad news.

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» RE: Truly Great Ideas but ... Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Truly Great Ideas but ... Posted by: luciennh
32 Words...
Posted by: The Old Hippie on Sep 25, 2008 12:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
 
Dirty Secret Of The Bailout: Thirty-Two Words That None Dare Utter…

The 32 Words...

“Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are
non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not
be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.”


If you do not understand the import of those 32 words, then follow the link.
 

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» RE: 32 Words... Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: 32 Words... Posted by: LaurelAnn
» RE: 32 Words... Posted by: koolwoman
Nice ideas....
Posted by: cordas on Sep 25, 2008 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but I can't help but feel these slime balls will just find new ways (helped by certain goverment types) to wriggle out of paying.

These scum need their feet nailing to the floor (metaphoricaly) and forced to pay the taxes to the state that they owe. Tax avoidance should be treated as seriously as any robbery... because thats effectively what it is.

If I where to get caught doing a bank job (no matter if I used force or subterfuge) and stole millions / billions and got caught I would serve decades inside.... do the same to a few fat cat CEOs and the rest will soon find that they can survive on a few million less a year.

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Such Ideas still leave FASCIST CORPORATE CRIME RULE INTACT
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Sep 25, 2008 3:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In other words what is missing is elimination of the illegal "Federal Reserve" Corp (not federal, less than ZERO reserves) private Ponzi scheme that this crash couldn't have been created without.

Again, this is about Organized Corporate Monopoly Fascist rule .

A derivatives bubble that has grown north of $1, 280 QUADRILLION dollars (well over $1,280 TRILLIONS) where a 10% write-down would bankrupt the entire planet overnight is not an accident

A 10% write-down of that Quadrillion dollar debt would still leave the the entire planet bankrupt. Put another way, the planet is below broken. It’s gotten that way by and for Fascists who have raped their way to the height of greed based stolen power that they now want Americans to pay for all over again.

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» On credibility & the Issues at Stake Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
Some say this, some say that.
Posted by: talkville on Sep 25, 2008 3:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They say, as Molly Ivins may have put it: "It's just da cost of doin' bidness". That well-planned and well-constructed 'bidness' invented by Gramm and others a while back now just has to 'externalize' those costs; the benefits have already been accumulated and appropriated over a long period of time. The Pied Piper is off to Hamelin to count up and gloat on his loot; meanwhile, here in the USA and elsewhere, we're left staring at and wandering about in the wreckage, the waste-land.

Molly might also say: "not so fast, buckaroo, where do you think you're going???" "Let's take a closer look here now at how this happened..."

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» God Bless Molly Ivins Posted by: Carol Burns
» RE: God Bless Molly Ivins Posted by: veg4peace
» RE: God Bless Molly Ivins Posted by: JSquercia
CASH FOR EQUITY NOT FOR WORTHLESS PAPER!
Posted by: Peter Mackrael on Sep 25, 2008 3:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US Congress is currently under pressure to quickly pass Paulson’s $700 billion bail-out proposal. Paulson's initial proposal will give the Bush administration incredible power to privatize profits while socializing the losses!

If any company is given federal assistance, the US government should receive equity in the company otherwise any massive cash infusion will merely reward those banks that got deepest in debt. Buying their worthless paper makes no sense. There is no clear method to evaluate the paper to be 'bought' and worst of all, no regulations to address the real cause or to investigate possible criminal activity. Buying this worthless paper without enforcing new regulations will merely encourage continued derivatives trading and increase the total debt. If this occurs, does anyone believe that $700 billion will be enough? I expect total bail-out costs could run into the tens of trillions if foreign banks are included.

On the other hand, government ownership will ensure that future profits (if any) are returned to the people and that new regulations to manage derivatives trading - assuming Congress writes them - are followed. If and when these banks become profitable and socially responsible, they can be sold back to private investors.

I do not trust Treasury Secretary Paulson and the Bush administration to administer this huge 'bail-out/buy-out'. As with the war in Iraq, I fear that most of this money will go to political allies and cronies.

A separate bi-partisan committee/agency should be created to assess other alternatives. If it is agreed to buy these failing banks at their current market value, the guidelines and restrictions must be transparent to all. All purchase offers should be subject to review and approval by Congress.

I believe it is highly likely that conspiracy to defraud and outright fraud has occurred before and may occur during this 'rescue' plan. An independent agency should be assigned to investigate fraud/conspiracy and these investigations should begin immediately.

The current approach uses "fear of imminent financial collapse and appeals to the need for public sacrifice" combined with a rush to push a "clean" bill through a Congress distracted by “how to protect the interests of homeowners facing foreclosure”, without allowing adequate time for assessment. This reminds me of the method that President Bush used to pass the bill to authorize the invasion of Iraq.

There is no need to reward investment banks for their reckless behavior. Here are two recommendations for your consideration.

1. There is no need to buy any derivatives paper - this paper is absolutely worthless and should not be purchased by the government! If Congress is convinced that a cash injection is needed (and I am not convinced), there are at least three better alternatives: provide credit through an existing bank that was not involved in this derivatives fraud/casino OR buy an existing bank outright and issue new credit through this bank OR create a new federal bank for this purpose. A new bi-partisan committee should be created to assess the need and to administer this activity. Let the investment banks and insurance companies that did gamble with derivatives fail as they should. There is no reason to bail out these irresponsible and socially harmful operators. This credit injection need not be the full $700 billion, but should be injected in small pieces to legitimate borrowers and only if absolutely needed.

2. Regarding homeowners facing mortgage default, these owners got in over their head by choice. They and their lenders chose to speculate in the housing market. If they believe that a lender defrauded them, they should initiate a law suit against the bank that gave them their mortgage. The federal government should not assume any responsibility for these mortgages.

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Forget it. Not gonna happen !
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 25, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the first place, there is no reason to bail out Wall $treet because they caused all the mess. In the second place, since when do Democrats or Republicans give a shit about Main Street? Anyone who votes for either one of these two parties at this point is a LOSER.

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Paulsons delayed Ransom Letter- Bush's 'Death Threats'
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 25, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First all those connected to this Heist should be immediately arrested on Charges of TREASON.
Paulson's Ransom Letter was composed 6 months ago- Intent, Forethought and MALICE.
So he and his Cronies KNEW this was coming, but did nothing to inform others, or even bother to figure out a more extensive stratedgy than a 2 1/2 page 'Pay Up' Note.
so why did he wait so long, why couldn't he be bothered to come up with stop gaps.....He was Told NOT To!
God Knows if W's mouth is moving HE IS LYING!
Bu tnow Mac thinks we actaully Buy his Bullshit instead....How Does McCain lie Let US count the ways..
What caused those injuries that now hav eyou Debilitated?
Which NFL Team?
When did Davis Lobby Group stop aiding Freddie Mac in Extortion?
Who's Doctrine was finally followed in Iraq and you claimed as your own (Hint - it's the General You guys took to the cleaners and left hanging out to dry)?
What has been more Successful the 'Surge' or th e'Purge'?
Who's Anthrax was used to provoke an Unwarranted attack on Iran?
How many times have you voted to protect Investment Gambling?
Who has been implicated in a scandal that left thousands of Americans broke?
Why can't you cope with a Debate and a Crisis at the same time?
Tell Me Mac exactly what are your intentions are by 'Suspending Your campaign to help cope withthis finanacial 'melt down'- could it be an attempt to claim we need to delay the Presidential Election?
Cheney Corp is Yankin Our Chains Again- having once again CAUSED a major National Issue to manipulate the outcome.Unlike Your 'pin up Girl' we won't be stopping to put on our lipstick before we rip your thoats out!

TO ALL OUR SERIVCE PERSONNEL...
COME HOME WE HAVE DOMESTIC ENEMIES TO ARREST, PROSECUTE, AND PUNISH FOR TREASON, WAR CRIMES AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!We could use your expertise in Toppling this Dangerous Dictatorship!

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Most of us seem to be saying the same thing... "Yup, this wagon looks good on paper..."
Posted by: ~Fiona~ on Sep 25, 2008 5:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"But, how do you actually put Wheels on this Wagon?"

In other words, its Just a bunch of Words unless someone can find a direct line to the people who are going to be making this decision... Like most of so called "crisis" of this administration, this too is timed when the spineless congressional leaders are more worried about leaving town than actually concentrating on the job they were hired to do...

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Never Have So Few Stolen So Much From So Many
Posted by: Elurby on Sep 25, 2008 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
#######
#######

Never in the history of Man

have so few stolen so much

from so many and got away

with their ill-gotten gains—

to describe what the private

stock-based Federal Reserve

and its at-large bankers,

its groveling politicians,

and its insider capitalist

businessmen have done to

America’s finances and the

world’s economies; and do

not forget, dear reader,

that while those thieves –

Greenspan, Bernake, Paulson

et al – are asking U.S.

citizens to bailout Big

Banking and Big Business to

the tune of nearly two-

trillion dollars, those

missing two-trillion

dollars that were said to

be “mysteriously” lost

from Pentagon coffers

during the Nineties –

announced too conveniently

so by Donald Rumsfeld on

September 10, 2001 – have

not been found, because

the Pentagon accounting

department, in which

records of its on-going

investigation were kept,

was struck and destroyed

on September 11, 2001,…

too conveniently so!

#######
#######

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God damn racist America!
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 25, 2008 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My newspaper today had a front page story that said because of the economic crisis we're in, Senator Obama has a "slight" lead over the Manchurian Candidate and his stupid hockey mom running mate.

"SLIGHT"?

If Barack were white, he would have a 25-point lead in the polls. Minimum.

God damn racist America. And that includes the Obama bashers on AlterNet (i.e. Karl.Ben) who are nothing but closet bigots.

God damn you all to HELL!

John McCain--OLD ideas, OLD solutions, OLD lobby connections
For more reasons why JM should not be president
of the United States, click on: Vote Against McCain
[reportedly the hottest anti-McCain site on the Web]

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Wall Street & Elitist demands are Economic Terrorism & Blackmail
Posted by: rwcbanzai on Sep 25, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is economic terrorism and blackmail with a circumvention of due process of the bankruptcy provisions of law that each of us must go thru.
This is a presidential pardon for criminal malfeance and a elite blackmail bailout. Why not just insure the people's assets and nationalize the bad assests as a tax on that corporate casino!
This is an elite Wall street blackmail that will bury us from change of this current sytem. When the elites force this bull down our throats without due process the blackmail will continue as well as the debt plus interest. Why are we negotiating with wall street terrorists? They have betrayed my trust & the law of fiduciary duty!

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Yeah Right
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 25, 2008 7:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wishful thinking but we all know the Bush Regime would never do anything to take money from the filthy rich! It'll never happen! The poor working people will always be made to pay.

Jiffers
Online Privacy when it Counts!

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Mostly good but I have other ideas.
Posted by: reelectnoone on Sep 25, 2008 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) I understand the emotional need to tax corporations but they just pass taxes back to those who buy their products in the form of higher taxes. It is really only people who pay taxes either directly or hidden as a cost of doing business.

2) What ever happened to the flat tax? A very simple tax code.

A few basic standard deductions for everyone then tax the rest above a certain amount a fixed 15% on everything else.

* No tax if you earn poverty level as adjusted each year.
* Can deduct child care to work
* Can deduct home heating and cooling costs up to $2,000 year
* Can deduct mortgage interest up to $15,000 a year
* Can deduct all health care costs pending national health care. ( no cosmetic surgery unless to repair damage from accident or illness )
* Can deduct what you pay into Social Security
* No tax on retirement savings or investment interest on accounts of less than $200,000 value.
* Can deduct cost of higher education

If your income minus these deductions results in an after-deduction income below poverty level you don't pay taxes.

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» Sounds Good Posted by: benzene
Shell Game
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 25, 2008 7:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are good ideas, if only Congress would get a spine and hold fast to them! This shell game has been going on for so long that Wall Street titans and their cronies actually believe that they need to be bailed-out without restrictions! The last time we listened to the call of WMD (Weapons of Mass Deception), we became bogged down in Iraq!

We can only call "our representatives" in Congress and demand that they hold fast and firm! No freebies, give-aways, re-regulation, and payment of taxes by these modern day robber-barrons and their corporations! It is high time that the 2% - 5% of the wealthiest start paying their share of taxes! Close those loopholes that they use to their advantage especially because they get the subsidies to begin with! It is waaayy past time to give this country back to the 95% of hard-working Americans that have lost out in this whole deal!

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Magic money, we has it.
Posted by: zipoka on Sep 25, 2008 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For schemers, thieves and thugs on Wall Street, 700 billion in corporate welfare, no strings attached, judicial or administrative review not allowed, no provisions for reigning in CEO pay, punishing the criminals responsible for this mess, or regulating against future Ponzi schemes, just a free ticket to the next level of the game, courtesy of the hypocritical cheerleaders of free, unregulated markets.

For foreign wars on fraudulent pretenses, with untold death and destruction to civilians, 800 billion in seven years, much of it lost, stolen or squandered by the private sector of contractors who continue to fill their pockets at taxpayer expense.

To bail out Social Security, which never was government welfare, which has been funded continuously by working America and our employers for decades, and has been raped, robbed and left for dead, zero.

The elites now use the altruistic arguments: if we don't hand out these billions to King George's jesters, jobs will be lost! People will lose their retirement income! The last 20 years of corporate America have been about downsizing, offshoring, cheating people out of their pensions. Jobs and retirement incomes will be lost anyway.

Not a place in this world where anyone can expatriate where the greedy hands of the American elite won't reach. Now Europe is being infected with the high flying way of life, where CEO pay is going up while national pensions are being attacked, and the police have never been more active. There is no third world country with any desirable resources where our CIA isn't messing shit up and eyeing resources like oil, lumber, mines, water.

There isn't a hard earned nest egg anywhere in this world safe from thieves in high places.

The loss of what my country stood for when I was a child is disgusting, revolting. I really don't care if I die now, except that I need to lose a few pounds first, because I want to look good at my funeral.

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Fret not, don't worry - be happy.
Posted by: symcokid on Sep 25, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because whether they can find a country dumb enough to borrow this IOUSofA $700,000,000,000 or not won't matter because either way our economy is going to go "tits up"!!!

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Fascists
Posted by: modeler on Sep 25, 2008 8:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush is worse then Hitler, that guy had at least the guts to close down the stockmarket and send the speculators packing. His American counterpart unloads the results of the greed and cheating on John Doe. Hitler = Bush: Fascists of the worst kind. And McClown? Not much better!

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no corp minimum income tax!
Posted by: cyr3n on Sep 25, 2008 9:03 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That would be devastating to mom and pop businesses and sole proprietor contractors! There are a lot of companies out there set up by individuals to keep their moonlight gigs separate from other income.

Death tax should be eliminated too. Its extremely inhumane to tax a family just when they've lost a loved one.

Honestly there needs to be major reform in how outsourcing and subcontracting works because that's whats hurting domestic wage earners and eroding wage compensation.

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Missing Element?
Posted by: OutOfTheBox on Sep 25, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep feeling like there is a missing element in the whole picture... The talk of bailing out Wall Street, etc. is focused on why we should do it, or not.

My question: where did the money come from that "Wall Street" used up?

Isn't that "my" money, i.e. pension plans, 401ks, county taxes, company funds held in savings until needed, school monies put into an interest bearing account until needed to pay venders, etc?

Only now it's time for "Wall Street" to pay back that money in full, or the interest due... but they don't have it. They can't really borrow it (no one will loan to them) and they can't "sell" anything to make those payments because the "value" has fallen too low to be meaningful.

So are we really talking about putting "money" back into the system (printing more dollars) to keep things going: paying out what is owed? But because the money will be "printed" to make up the difference - all dollars will have less value.

Your "loan" may get paid back but the value of what you get back will have decreased dramatically. Looks good on paper but doesn't buy all that you need/want compared to last week/month/year! It does keep the whole system going though... otherwise everything comes to a very hard screeching halt ( did you say you have 6 months worth of food in your pantry and a garden growing???)!

Any insight into all this would be appreciated. Please skip the emotional bad guy/good guy stuff. I'm much more interested in how the whole cycle is connected.

Haven't finished it yet, but ChrisMartenson.com has an excellent (&free) "Crash Course" on economics that is enormously helpful (20 short video clips with good pictures & graphs). I would suggest looking at it, for anyone who wants to get a better understanding of the dynamics of our money system.

Anyway, back to the question... the "bailout plan" has serious flaws and those need to be dealt with, but in the interim, what can be done to prevent the immediate seizing up of our whole economy. What does the economy crashing mean?

I think it means teachers don't get paid, road workers don't get paid, vendors don't get paid, annuity's and pensions aren't paid out, etc., etc., etc. And it domino's right down the line. All those people are out of funds to pay grocery bills, credit cards, gas, mortgage...

The whole system is flawed because it is based on continual growth in a world with finite limits. I think that is called an "oxymoron"; two incompatibles/opposites linked together. WE can rework a flawed system, else "mother nature" will certainly do it for us.

So, moving past guilt & blame, what DO we DO? now, and in the future? Living in a fantasy world (if I don't look maybe it will all go away) is soon NOT to be an option.

ThinkOutOfTheBox

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Guillotines for the plutocracy
Posted by: leafsong1 on Sep 25, 2008 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are all good ideas, but only one of them will make it into the final bill in a very diluted form. Ultimately, when the Constitutional order fails, the plutocracy can only be humbled by political violence.

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Yes x10
Posted by: Symp on Sep 25, 2008 9:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes x10... but, we must understand something well: Wall Streeters aren't "slime". People simply do what they can get away with. It's that plain and simple. That understood, the goal is to prevent the leading class from perpetuating and building upon the obscene one-way bias for themselves they've come to consider as 'good business'. This can be done, but we have to come back to the basics of sound and principled fundamentals…

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The Birk Plan
Posted by: FemaleVet on Sep 25, 2008 10:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Got this in an e-mail this morning. It's worth looking into. Common people with superior ideals.
Hi Pals,

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S.
Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child.
So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

Wh at would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else


Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( 'vote buy' ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.


If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can 'never work.'

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because
$25.5
Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,

Birk

T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic< BR>
PS: Feel free to pass this along to your pals as it's either good for a laugh or a tear or a very sobering thought on how to best use $85 Billion!!

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» RE: The Birk Plan Posted by: modocmoon
Without Soaking Taxpayers
Posted by: giles on Sep 25, 2008 1:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here lies the rub!
It is a good plan! Don't hold your breath for Congress to adopt it! You've got to belong to the 'entitlement club'. Where is Dennis Kucinich? I would like to hear him on this!...But, John McCain to the rescue?....LOL. May be I should weep instead!

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Is anyone hitting the streets?
Posted by: Beck on Sep 25, 2008 1:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or is this it?

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» RE: Is anyone hitting the streets? Posted by: Bliss Doubt
Starting from the wrong end
Posted by: Canute on Sep 25, 2008 2:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pouring money into the coffers of the investment banks is like trying to patch a dam from the downstream side - the flow blows it back out. It isn't a credit crisis - that is a symptom. It is a home value vs. average income crisis. The 1997-2007 rise in home prices was unprecedented and unsupportable. We need to do two things:
1) Force the renegotiation of all the 2000-2007 whacko mortgages down by 40%. Then they will be in line with what housing is actually worth. If we actually bail out the investment houses it should be at this discount so we have a chance of getting our money back out.
2) Deal with wage stagnation and anti-union laws so that people can actually earn a living and maybe afford a mortgage.

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Great Satire On Market Crisis
Posted by: bcgirl125 on Sep 25, 2008 5:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig9/masty3.html

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Where's the "Plan"?
Posted by: Ripcord on Sep 25, 2008 6:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just tried to find a copy of "the Bailout Plan," the original, a revised "plan," any document that is being discussed.

Apparently John McCain hasn't read it.

Pundits joke, "Doesn't he have 5 minutes to read it?"
Apparently, it's only 3 pages long.
One comment gives a quote from it.

I've tried to "Google" for the bail-out-plan.

Everyone has a comment on it.

BUT WHERE IS IT?

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CommonDreamer
Posted by: CommonDreamer on Sep 25, 2008 8:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a great article. We can and should confiscate this money from those who profited from depressing workers' wages while raising prices on everything they could because they had so much money that nothing had to matter to them - e.g. - house prices, stadiums financed on the backs of workers, corporate welfare, education, and so on. And worst of all, that wasn't enough - usury credit card rates - bogus interest only loans they knew couldn't be paid back (because the only ones profiting from this economy have been them, not workers, who have been sliding backwards). For years, nothing has been enough for the greedy titans - not 15% capital gains, not wage depression, not obscene CEO salaries, not options, not corporate welfare and also state and local giveaways - incredible. Not a penny for patriotism - and not their sons and daughters off to a war they would not pay for either.

The bill has come due for the frat house(a.k.a. White House) party we have endured under these greedy and sophmoric, whining freeloaders. We need some adult supervision in the White House (Barack Obama is the right adult for the job) and an economy for all. And to begin to restore it, we need to take back what was essentially stolen from us all - and return this to the proper areas of the economy that most benefit - instead of having it disappear into $40 mil mansions, jets, Euro vacations while workers slave away, and so on.

Misplaced priorities hopefully will be over and done with now. The trickle down monster hopefully has been slain - its Ponzi scheme economics exposed - and now it's time for the winners to pay the casino bill to the rest of America.

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Mr.
Posted by: jyongue@iag.net on Sep 27, 2008 2:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You omitted a group that is very responsible for this mess. Evangelical Christians elected and reelected George the Idiot. They should pay for much of the cleanup--tax church property and businesses.

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Ever Heard of...
Posted by: maxomus on Sep 29, 2008 5:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have you ever heard the quote "I sacrifised One solider to save the lives of Thousands"? Well I'll bet there is at least 7 billionaires in America. Why not make each of them sacrifice a 100 billion each, to save the financial lives of thousands? The rich got us into this, they should get us out. Stop rapeing us of money to keep you rich!!

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