COMMENTS: 78
Maude Barlow: The Growing Battle for the Right to Water
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If you want to know where the water is running low (including 36 U.S. states), why we haven't been able to protect it and what we can do to ensure everyone has the right to water, Barlow's book is an essential read. It is part science, part policy and part impassioned call. And the information in Blue Covenant couldn't come from a more reliable source. Barlow is the national chairperson of the Council of Canadians and co-founder of the Blue Planet Project, which is instrumental in the international community in working for the right to water for all people. She also authored Blue Gold: The Fight to Stop Corporate Theft of the World's Water with Tony Clarke. And she's the recipient of the Right Livelihood Award (known as the "Alternative Nobel") for her global water justice work.
She took a moment to talk to AlterNet in between the Canadian and U.S. legs of a book tour for Blue Covenant. (Barlow just kicked off her U.S. tour; for a list of tour stops and dates, click here).
Tara Lohan: This year in the U.S. there has been a whole lot press about the drought in Atlanta and the Southeast, and I think for a lot of people in the U.S. it is the first they are hearing about drought, but the crisis here in North America is really pretty extreme isn't it?
Maude Barlow: It really is, and it kind of surprises me when I hear people, for instance in Atlanta say, "We didn't know it was coming." I don't know how that could be possible, and I do have to say that I blame our political leaders. I don't understand how they could not have been reading what I've been reading and what anyone who is watching this has been reading.
I remember attending a conference in Boise, Idaho, three years ago and hearing a lot of scientists get up and say, "Read my lips, this isn't a drought, this is permanent drying out." We are overpumping the Ogallala, Lake Powell and Lake Meade. The back up systems are now being depleted. This is by no means a drought ...
The thing that I'm trying to establish with the first chapter, which is called "Where Has All the Water Gone," is that what we learned in grade five about the hydrologic cycle being a closed, fixed cycle that could never be interrupted and could never go anywhere, is not true. They weren't lying to us, but they weren't aware of the human capacity to destroy it, and the reality is that we've interrupted the hydrologic cycle in many parts of the world and the American Southwest is one of them.
TL: How is this happening?
MB: By farming in deserts and taking up water from aquifers or watersheds. Or by urbanizing -- massive urbanization causes the hydrologic cycle to not function correctly because rain needs to fall back on green stuff -- vegetation and grass -- so that the process can repeat itself. Or we are sending huge amounts of water from large watersheds to megacities and some of them are 10 to 20 million people, and if those cities are on the ocean, some of that water gets dumped into the ocean. It is not returned to the cycle.
We are massively polluting surface water, so that the water may be there, but we can't use it. And we are also mining groundwater faster than it can be replenished by nature, which means we are not allowing the cycle to renew itself. The Ogallala aquifer is one example of massive overpumping. There are bore wells in the Lake Michigan shore that go as deep into the ground as Chicago skyscrapers go into the ground and they are sucking groundwater that should be feeding the lake so hard that they are pulling up lake water now, and they are reversing the flow of water in Lake Michigan for the first time.
We are interrupting the natural cycle. And another thing we are doing is something called virtual water trade. That is where you send water out of the watershed in the form of products or agriculture. You've used the water to produce something and then you export it, and about 20 percent of water used in the world is exported out of watershed in this way, because so much of our economy is about export. In the U.S. you are sending about one-third of your water out of watersheds -- it is not sustainable.
This is not a cyclical drought. We are actually creating hot stains, as I and some scientists call them, around the world. These are parts of the world that are running out of water and will be, or are, in crisis. Which means that millions more people will be without water. I argue that this is one of the causes of global warming. We usually hear water being a result of climate change, and it is, particularly with the melting of the glaciers. But our abuse, mismanagement and treatment of water is actually one of the causes, and we have not placed that analysis at the center of our thinking about climate change and environmental destruction, and until we do, we are only addressing half the question.
I do blame in a very big way, the political leadership in most of our countries for having failed to heed the call of scientists and ecologists and water managers who've been telling us for years now there is a crisis coming -- there are 36 states in the U.S. in some form of water stress, from serious to severe. Thirty-six states! Most Americans don't know this -- why is this not part of people's everyday concerns? That is what I'm hoping this book will help do.
TL: Do you think governments, like the U.S. or Canada, have any kind of a contingency plan?
MB: No. There are people in the U.S. who believe Canada is the contingency plant. Or Northeast water or Alaska water. So, moving water is one of the contingency plans, likely by pipeline. You could also ship it by tanker. Other than that, no. And not only are there no backup plans, but there is not even an understanding that you've got to stop increasing the demand on water. In the U.S., people are moving into the very area of the country that has no water -- a huge migration is taking place to to the American Southwest where they're building more golf courses.
I just read about a new water theme park in Arizona that will have waves so big you can have serious surfers, like real surfing in the desert. There is just this lack of understanding about how nature works, how the hydrologic cycle needs to be protected and how watersheds need to be protected, and when you start playing god by moving this stuff around like this we are just creating this massive crisis. There is not enough water for the demands being made on it in the American Southwest.
TL: You said 36 states in the U.S. are water stressed -- what does that actually mean for the people who live there?
MB: Well, in a dire case, literally running out of water. In many other cases, the predictions are that the demand will increase seriously and they've got to start planning. I quote in the book that the demand in Florida is growing so much and overpumping is happening so much that there are actually sink holes opening up and swallowing homes and streets and sometimes whole shopping centers. It is called subsidence. Mexico City is sinking in on itself because all the water under the city has been taken out and now they are going farther afield pumping water.
It can go from that kind of crisis, or as in some communities in the Midwest, you face having no water to the Chicago area, where the demand is going to grow hugely, and therefore the demand will be on the Great Lakes, which are already in trouble. There are four trillion liters taken out of the Great Lakes every single day and believe me, nature is not putting a trillion gallons back in. It is not rocket science that we are not allowing nature to refill and replenish. And now there are new demands on the Great Lakes because communities and industries off the basin are now demanding access to it.
TL: You mentioned global warming earlier, and I just want to come back to that for a moment. Are we approaching climate change in the wrong way by not recognizing its connection to water?
MB: Yes.
TL: So what should we be doing?
MB: Well, we have to put it into the equation. I've found that some politicians are actually using global warming as an excuse not to do anything, and I'll give you an example. It is the polar opposite of the Bush administration, which is that global warming doesn't exist. In Australia, which thankfully has gone through a government change, they are disengaging the water from the countryside and letting farmers sell it through brokers, they are disrupting streams and aquifers. They are draining the wetlands. They are privatizing. They are doing all sorts of things wrong, including overusing and polluting it, and so on. And what did the prime minister say? "It's got nothing to do with anything we're doing; it's global warming, and it blew here from away -- we didn't even create it."
I think global warming is becoming a little bit of a catch all for some governments to do nothing or to put off a solution to other things until they find a solution to global warming, and there is no excuse. Right now we have got to stop the abuse of water. The single most important thing that we can do for global warming, aside from stopping the overpumping of greenhouse gas emissions, but the twin to that is to retain water in watersheds. Because the hydrologic cycle is what cools the temperature.
Global warming can be averted through a great extent if we could maintain watersheds and maintain the cycle in its purest form. That means keeping green spaces, building green rings around urban centers -- everything from parks and gardens -- stop polluting, stop overmining groundwater and retain water in watersheds, which means we have to live more sustainably, we have to grow our food differently, we have to stop believing in unlimited growth and more stuff and more competition, and all of that.
I find that global warming is such a crisis that we won't do anything on any other front because all our attention is going there. I think we are terribly missing the boat on this, and I'm very interested in getting a debate going on this in the climate-change community so that when people are talking about the causes of climate change, our drying up of the earth from below will be considered as serious a cause as the trapping of heat from greenhouse gas emissions. It is not only part of the analysis we are missing, but part of the solution.
TL: That is interesting. I haven't heard a lot of people talking about it from that angle.
MB: Nobody.
I'm working with a group of scientists in Slovakia and a few other places, voices in the wilderness, but when you start putting it together, honestly, it makes such sense. I mean if you start to look at the growth of deserts -- in the last 30 years we've doubled the growth of deserts in the world, and it will double again in 20 years. Well, if you are creating deserts and you've got heat rising from the earth with urban heat islands, the inability for the hydrologic cycle to be maintained because of urbanization, it makes a lot of sense. Of course that is all exacerbated by melting glaciers and the lowering of the ice packs, which protects from evaporation. It is kind of a deadly combination. I spoke at a conference about this recently in London, England, and was received by people from the climate change world, really, really well, and I thought "This is a good sign."
TL: You spent a lot of time in this book, and also in Blue Gold, talking about privatization. Can you talk a little about why we should be concerned about it?
MB: Well, as water dwindles in the world and available fresh water is becoming more scarce, the demand is growing, water is becoming a commodity, it is becoming valuable to those who want to put a price on it, which is why I called the first book Blue Gold. And this blue gold is attracting private sector interest in many, many ways, and there is a private sector interest coming together to control every level of water, from when we take it out of the ground, bottle it, to how we deliver it, to wastewater treatment, and now the biggest and newest is water reuse and recycling. That sounds benign at first, but when you really start to look at it, really it is about big, big corporations like GE, Dow Chemical, Proctor & Gamble getting into the ownership, control, and recycling of dirty water, which because there are billions of dollars at stake, in my opinion, becomes a disincentive to protect source water. And you can start to understand why governments, in collusion with these companies, are starting to spend millions of dollars on cleanup technology but will not enforce rules to stop pollution in the first place.
And then we have desalination. There are 30 desal plants planned for California alone. They are now talking about nuclear-powered desalination. They are talking about building those plants as we speak. The people in the anti-nuclear movement had better dust off and come back because it is all coming back with desalination. And then there is nanotechnology, which they want to be totally deregulated. I've got a great quote in the book where this guy says, "We are going to do to water what we did to telecommunications in the 1990s," which is total deregulation. They want governments out of the business of water.
I have a whole section in the book on how water has become such a hot commodity. When I wrote Blue Gold there was no water being exchanged on the Stock Exchange, now there are over a dozen indexes just for trading water. It has become a multi-multibillion-dollar industry just overnight. A lot of it is this water reuse -- it is the fast-growing section of the water industry. I argue that there is a race going on over who's going to control water, whether it will be seen as a public commons, a public trust, and part of our collective heritage that also belongs to the earth -- or whether it will be controlled by private corporations, and I don't know who will win.
TL: But it is not all bad news.
MB: No, we are making good inroads in the bottled water area -- a lot of universities, high schools, are having drives to reject bottled water. We're getting restaurants now taking the challenge up to not serve bottled water, and we're getting people to take a pledge not to drink bottled water.
There has been a huge fight back from the big utility companies, particularly in the global south, to the extent that Suez has basically announced it is going to leave Latin America because people are so furious with them, which has been the result of fabulous grass-roots activism. So, it is not that this is a done deal, but most of the our governments are supportive of these private-sector incursions.
It is all about technology and not about lifestyle and alternative ways and decreasing growth and stuff -- they are saying we are not going to challenge the model, it is unlimited growth, continued competition, continued economical globalization, continued privatization, continued deregulation -- we'll just continue to find ways to clean up the mess as we go along.
TL: Water is not just an environmental issue, but a national security issue, you discovered with this book.
MB: Yes, water has become an issue of national security in the U.S. Six years ago I couldn't find any inkling at the national level -- the Pentagon or White House -- of a coming water crisis, either globally or in the U.S. But in the last, two to three years, this has been hugely changed. There is now a consortium advising the Bush administration and the Pentagon -- it is called Global Water Futures. It is made up of this think tank called the Center for International Studies and Sandia Laboratories. Then I dug deeper and found it is being contracted out to be run by Lockheed Martin. And this consortium involves Coke and Proctor & Gamble and others. So you finally have the U.S. government saying, "Holy crap, we're in trouble here, you can't be a super power if you don't have energy and water." Now they've got this advisory body that not only has this think tank and the corporate side too, and the high technology side, and the military side. It becomes very clear what you are dealing with.
TL: Can you talk more about the grass-roots resistance to all of this?
MB: The thing that is so stunning, especially in the global south, is that when you are dealing with water, you are dealing with life and death. For a lot of people it is like, "Well, we didn't know what to do when they privatized our education or shut down our public hospitals -- but water is different." They are willing to go the wall for it -- as one person said to me, "You may as well kill me with a bullet as dirty water." People just take a stand and are determined they are not going to compromise.
We took the time as a movement ... whenever anybody always asks me how to build a campaign, I always include these steps. We took the time to find language that we all jointly agreed on -- that water is not a commodity, that it belongs to the earth and all species, it is a public trust and human right, and so on. We've taken the time to work this out so that if you ask any of us around the world, you are going to hear the same kind of language. There is a trust that we have built in this shared philosophy and shared vision.
TL: How is it that you've managed to create such as worldwide message and come together?
MB: Part of the origin was when I wrote a report for the International Forum on Globalization back in 1999. It was called Blue Gold: The Global Water Crisis and the Commodification of the World's Water Supply. It took off, and a bunch of people from around the world started reading it. We got it translated into many, many languages, and I started hearing from people saying, "I thought this was personal and we were fighting this particular company in our community, and we didn't know that this was a global fight."
So, to my knowledge, that was the first analysis, and that morphed into the book. I started traveling and meeting people and Food & Water Watch got set up in the U.S. And then there was meeting people in Europe who were fighting big water companies, coming together at the big World Water Forum and bringing folks together from the global south to challenge what we call the "lords of water." And, of course, technology has been incredible. You don't have to have a computer in every house -- you just have to have somebody on the other end who has the capacity to receive this information.
TL: What else do we need to be doing?
MB: We need laws. Martin Luther King Jr. said, "Legislation won't change the heart, but it will restrain the heartless." We need legislation at every level of our government. It is all well for grass-roots people to do all their wonderful work -- but they shouldn't have to do all the work. We need laws at every level, from municipal up to state to national to international, that protect water ecologically on one hand and protect the notion of a human right and right of the earth, and not a commodity, and that is so fundamental.
That is why I call the book "blue covenant" -- we need a covenant of three parts -- from humans to the earth to stop destroying the lifeblood of the earth, from the rich to the poor (global north to the south) for water justice, not charity -- justice. Water should be a fundamental right for all generations, and no one should be allowed to sell it for profit. We want this right up to the United Nations. It is a struggle at every level. But we just keep going. The fight back around the world is claiming space, but we have to have the weight of law behind us. We have to make, as a society, decisions about what matters. And if we believe that people shouldn't die because they can't afford water, then we have to bring things to bear to make that happen -- we have to change things. If the World Bank has money to give to Suez or Veolia, they've got the money to give to a public agency.
TL: So are you hopeful we can move change in the right direction?
MB: I'm always hopeful -- it is part of my job. I consider hope to be a moral imperative, and I also don't think you have any right to go around alarming people with these facts unless you are also prepared to talk about what needs to be done, and success stories, and be hopeful. I am very very hopeful that we can collectively do this.
If I'm worried -- it is about the exponential abuse of water -- can we catch this and stop it fast enough?
For a list of stops and dates for Barlow's book tour, click here.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: sanddollar on Feb 14, 2008 12:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can either change at a very deep level how we've been brought up to perceive the premises of our existence, or we foist the tragedy of not doing so on our descendants.
Some of my saddest moments in life are meeting very young children. I'm glad I'm 53 and not 3.
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» saddest moments meeting young children....
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Behold the future? ...wait a minute.
Posted by: greenman
» RE: Behold the future? ...wait a minute.
Posted by: sanddollar
» Your comment assumes this is not man made!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» No, it doesn't
Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Behold the future? ...wait a minute.
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 14, 2008 1:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people, despite their general reluctance to do so, reject the concept of the commons and desire to privatize everything and sell it to the highest bidder. BTW- Ron Paul's economic vision is basically their desired end-state. Not the Ron Paul of YouTube fame, but the Libertarian underneath the surface issues of the war, civil liberties and deficits. Like Thom Hartmann has said many times, Libertarians are largely Republicans that want to get laid and smoke dope.
Water is a basic given of the commons and should NEVER be privatized. We didn't make it, don't own it and have no right to deny it to others. Like the air we breathe, it is essential to our very existence. Anyone who advocates for the privatization of water is flirting with insanity.
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» RE: A Globe With No Future
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: A Globe With No Future
Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: A Globe With No Future
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Re: Genocide doesn't work.
Posted by: abbadon2007
» Thought experiment
Posted by: sanddollar
Comments are closed-
Posted by: odcherenow on Feb 14, 2008 4:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again, women stand out as guardians of the planet. (Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, the female botanist from Mexico, whose name escapes me, who blew the whistle on Monsanto's dead-after-one-season Terminator Seeds, or the women in India who chained themselves to trees about to be felled, leading to erosion of their fields.
Gaia is a living, replenishing organism. We are at the end of the food chain.
If ever any life form was vulnerable, it is humankind.
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Posted by: heide on Feb 14, 2008 5:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IT CAN GROW JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE ON EARTH
GROWING HEMP FOR FOOD IN SOME OF THESE DRIER AREAS WOULD CUT DOWN ON A WHOLE LOT OF WATER USAGE
PLUS NO PESTICIDES NEEDED
WHICH MEANS YOUR NOT POLLUTING WHAT PRECIOUS WATER THERE IS LEFT
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» RE: water
Posted by: donl51
» Exactly. Too bad dictators in poverty-ridden nations
Posted by: maxpayne
» An added bonus with hemp...
Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: hemp + water
Posted by: bobtr900
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Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 14, 2008 6:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Government of the people, by the people and for the people.
Direct Democracy
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» RE: Terrorist
Posted by: bobtr900
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Feb 14, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: another reason to choose vegan
Posted by: donl51
» RE: another reason to choose vegan
Posted by: Birdperson
» RE: another reason to choose vegan
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: Axiom69 on Feb 14, 2008 7:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Not IF...but WHEN
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Survival of the planet
Posted by: madmax427
» RE: Survival of the planet
Posted by: LIttleLiz
» RE: Survival of the planet
Posted by: babs
» We've not (yet) seen that level of savagery...?
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: crazy carlos on Feb 14, 2008 7:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which brings us to the 800 lb Gorillas--virtually all RELIGIONS--as in go forth and multiply!! No politians have the courage to confront this obvious problem that has to be put on the table (Ms Pelosi--listening?).
We as a people either start getting a handle on living cooperatively with Mother Nature or she will simply terminate the species. She does not need us--we need her. Muy sencillo!!
Crazy Carlos
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» RE: ADDRESS T H E CORE PROBLEM!!!
Posted by: donl51
» Atheists and gays need not worry
Posted by: Axiom69
» agree 100%
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» Well, okay, address it!
Posted by: Beck
» RE: ADDRESS T H E CORE PROBLEM!!!
Posted by: bobtr900
» Core problem not population, but first world consumption
Posted by: fork
» RE: Core problem not population, but first world consumption
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Feb 14, 2008 8:04 AM
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Posted by: jfernst on Feb 14, 2008 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Sounds like just a petty diatribe to me
Posted by: alleybear
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Posted by: willymack on Feb 14, 2008 8:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Cannibals
Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Cannibals
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Feb 14, 2008 9:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Water woes, Harvey Leifert, Feb 2008, Nature
"In the western US, where water is perhaps the most precious natural resource, anthropogenic global warming is responsible for more than half of the well-documented changes to the hydrological cycle from 1950 to 1999, researchers report. Over the last half of the twentieth century, the region's mountains received less winter snow and more rain, with snow melting earlier, causing rivers to flow more strongly in the spring and more weakly in the summer."
This is already here - continental interiors are expected to continue to dry out, deserts are predicted to expand towards the poles, and flooding in coastal regions is going to continue. What we are seeing are permanent, long-term changes in a climate that has been stable ever since the end of the last Ice Age... and we're still going full speed ahead.
Corporations see new profit opportunities in water as it becomes scarce, and are currently fighting over access to the newly ice-free regions of the Arctic - for oil exploration. Short-term profit wins out over long-term destruction of the planet's ecosystems?
Sooner or later, the mainstream economists are going to have to take ecology and physical reality into consideration.
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Posted by: Libsrule on Feb 14, 2008 11:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everytime I see some program where everyone is rejoicing over some idiotic family announcing the birth of their 14th child and how everyone smiles and thinks how cute that is, I just want to throw up.
People who have that many children in today's world should be shamed. Yes they will need help but ZERO POPULATION GROWTH is what we need to strive for at the most and one child should be the ultimate goal.
Not to mention no more privatization of water.
BUT by refusing to address the problems created by overpopulation we are simply putting off the inevitible, which is world wide death through famine, death etc caused by no water.
A Pentagon report released a few years ago and then immediately withdrawen by TPTB stated water riots were going to happen within the next twenty years due to the various reason noted, Overpopulation, Poor water management, Global Climate Change and pure unadulterated greed.
The next day after it had disappeared from all the newswires the WH stated the report was just a what if sort of thing and should be ignored.
I cannot help but wonder if those in charge figure they will be immune due to their wealth and control of the military.
Are they that stupid?
I hope and pray for the day when we see CEO's and politicians of all stripes being herded through the streets in carts on their way to the chopping block...well maybe just prison for life as I am opposed to the Death penalty under any circumstances but you get my gist. And they are stripped of all the lands, wealth and power.
Then turned out into the deserts they helped to create comnpletely naked.
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» RE: The Author makes no mention of population
Posted by: babs
» RE: People who have that many children in today's world should be shamed.
Posted by: bitsfick
» My, my, my - bitter, aren't we???
Posted by: alleybear
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Posted by: Johh Galt on Feb 14, 2008 12:20 PM
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» Solutions from a fictional character
Posted by: sausage
» The Real Heroes are always the quiet ones...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: John Galt
Posted by: Sparks56
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Posted by: opmoc on Feb 14, 2008 1:45 PM
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Overpopulation is indeed the major problem, but it can be resolved in time via education and cultural change.
In the meantime we either career headlong into a massive human disaster of monumental proportions or we find solutions.
It is possible that current population levels can be sustained until they decline gracefully as is already happening in most developed societies.
There is no realistic chance whatsoever, that wind and solar power could maintain anything like current population levels.
If we simply shutdwon conventional power stations then Billions will die across the planet in a most horrendous way.
Thorium is far more abandunt than Uranium, and reactors could be built that not only would be totally safe - but could effectively be used to reduce the enormous stockpiles of plutonium.
By building Thorium reactors primarily for converting sea water into fresh water - several different problems could be solved concurrently including the safe disposal of nuclear weapons.
Of course there needs to be the will to do it, which is by far the largest problem - but India seems to be getting on with the job.
http://www.indembassyathens.gr/India-nuclear%20energy/
India_nuclear%20energy_thorium.htm
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» Nuclear Power is a Long-term Solution to Overpopulation
Posted by: PaulK
» RE: Desalianation via Thorium Nuclear Power is a Solution not a Problem
Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Desalianation via Thorium Nuclear Power is a Solution not a Problem
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Desalianation via Thorium Nuclear Power is a Solution not a Problem
Posted by: rickiey
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Posted by: rws on Feb 14, 2008 3:59 PM
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80% of the population lives in cities near the oceans.
There is a lot of WIDE OPEN SPACE ON EARTH .
Dine on spirulina, hemp, seed, fruit and vegetable vegitarian diet burn salt water .
N. Tesla , O. Warburg , Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
Tesla Society T.E.B.A.
youtube -burn salt water- Kanzius
The Science and Art of Being
10 billion people + policy change = no problem
6 billion people + same policy = a bloody mess
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» RE: WIDE OPEN SPACE and population
Posted by: sanddollar
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 14, 2008 5:01 PM
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Posted by: PaulK on Feb 14, 2008 5:33 PM
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A shortage of water is ended simply by realizing that we gave it all to the very rich. This happens during every environmental crisis. Then we simply ask for some of the water back, the very rich cry in their bourbon, and the ecology runs wonderfully again.
If we planned ahead and used Lake Mead exclusively for people instead of for subsidizing Gallo wine, we wouldn't have a water shortage. Most of the usage of the Oglalla Aquifer and of California's Central Valley is for rich absentee farm investors to make money.
If farmers were on a water budget, they would switch either to water-saving irrigation or to crops which, while they didn't bring in as much profit as the old crops, they don't use as much water.
Around the world it's much the same. Water is only scarce because someone took it away (or polluted it) for profit-making reasons.
Notice how farmers get to pay one tenth as much for their water. Also notice how, when the water runs out, farmers get first dibs on the last remaining drops.
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Posted by: otto on Feb 14, 2008 5:35 PM
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Posted by: otto on Feb 14, 2008 5:35 PM
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Posted by: stfrequency on Feb 14, 2008 6:16 PM
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Read it here
-st
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Feb 14, 2008 7:48 PM
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Feb 15, 2008 9:27 AM
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Most of our major cities drink greater that 50% recycled water,in other words,you and your neighbors sewage is cleaned and fed back to you out of your taps.
Does anyone remember Love Canal? Industry polluted all their drinking water and never told them. When the government got involved they bought everyone's house for pennies on the dollar and called that 'taking action'.
Yes we have a World crisis with the water supply. We need to change some of our land/water use ideas. Like severely limiting beef cattle farms, they use enough water to supply a town of a thousand people for a year in a month. We need to stop watering lawns in areas that don't really support lawns. We need to restrict the development of golf courses. Water isn't the only thing they use up,they also pollute more than most farms. We need to limit the number of 'factory farms and Mega Farms,both use too much water and pollute far more than the family farm does.
We can get out of this mess we just need to utilize that least used function of our brains,wisdom,reason and common sense.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez '08
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Posted by: macdon1 on Feb 16, 2008 7:34 PM
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Posted by: rickiey on Feb 20, 2008 9:27 AM
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And that isn't hard. There are 20 companys out there that are just dying for the opportunity to open desalinization plants, to convert ocean water to clean water.
But environmentalists, have successfully blocked the opening most of these, on the premise that a small amount of local wildlife (the fish in the area) would be adversely affected.
Perhaps we can start worrying about humans, before it becomes an unstabilizing force?
On a side note: Carbon emission free nuclear power plants that operate near oceans, produce as a byproduct, clean, salt-free, non-irradiated water. (Saltwater is used to cool water that is used to cool reactor water, it is twice removed from reactivity). This water is turned to steam (but not the type for power purposes) which is subsequently cooled back to salt-free water.
On land, most plants simply dump this clean water back into the ocean. It's a waste. On board nuclear powered navy ships, this is how the drinking water is provided, and there is nothing wrong with it.
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Posted by: alleybear on Feb 21, 2008 11:01 PM
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"She took a moment to talk to AlterNet in between the Canadian and U.S. legs of a book tour for Blue Covenant. (Barlow just kicked off her U.S. tour; for a list of tour stops and dates, click here)."
makes me skeptical of anything that follows.
Let's say it indicates a commercial connection between AlterNet and this author.
...OR...
To be charitable, let's say the author is being generous, to share some of her precious time between book promotions with us peons...
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» RE: Caution !!!
Posted by: alleybear
» RE: Caution !!!
Posted by: alleybear
» Judge these pieces on their merit
Posted by: sanddollar
» It helps to note...
Posted by: sanddollar
» Thanks...
Posted by: sanddollar
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Posted by: sanddollar on Feb 14, 2008 12:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can either change at a very deep level how we've been brought up to perceive the premises of our existence, or we foist the tragedy of not doing so on our descendants.
Some of my saddest moments in life are meeting very young children. I'm glad I'm 53 and not 3.
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» saddest moments meeting young children....
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Behold the future? ...wait a minute.
Posted by: greenman
» RE: Behold the future? ...wait a minute.
Posted by: sanddollar
» Your comment assumes this is not man made!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» No, it doesn't
Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Behold the future? ...wait a minute.
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 14, 2008 1:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people, despite their general reluctance to do so, reject the concept of the commons and desire to privatize everything and sell it to the highest bidder. BTW- Ron Paul's economic vision is basically their desired end-state. Not the Ron Paul of YouTube fame, but the Libertarian underneath the surface issues of the war, civil liberties and deficits. Like Thom Hartmann has said many times, Libertarians are largely Republicans that want to get laid and smoke dope.
Water is a basic given of the commons and should NEVER be privatized. We didn't make it, don't own it and have no right to deny it to others. Like the air we breathe, it is essential to our very existence. Anyone who advocates for the privatization of water is flirting with insanity.
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» RE: A Globe With No Future
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: A Globe With No Future
Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: A Globe With No Future
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Re: Genocide doesn't work.
Posted by: abbadon2007
» Thought experiment
Posted by: sanddollar
Comments are closed-
Posted by: odcherenow on Feb 14, 2008 4:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again, women stand out as guardians of the planet. (Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, the female botanist from Mexico, whose name escapes me, who blew the whistle on Monsanto's dead-after-one-season Terminator Seeds, or the women in India who chained themselves to trees about to be felled, leading to erosion of their fields.
Gaia is a living, replenishing organism. We are at the end of the food chain.
If ever any life form was vulnerable, it is humankind.
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Posted by: heide on Feb 14, 2008 5:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IT CAN GROW JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE ON EARTH
GROWING HEMP FOR FOOD IN SOME OF THESE DRIER AREAS WOULD CUT DOWN ON A WHOLE LOT OF WATER USAGE
PLUS NO PESTICIDES NEEDED
WHICH MEANS YOUR NOT POLLUTING WHAT PRECIOUS WATER THERE IS LEFT
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» RE: water
Posted by: donl51
» Exactly. Too bad dictators in poverty-ridden nations
Posted by: maxpayne
» An added bonus with hemp...
Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: hemp + water
Posted by: bobtr900
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Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 14, 2008 6:43 AM
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Government of the people, by the people and for the people.
Direct Democracy
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» RE: Terrorist
Posted by: bobtr900
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Feb 14, 2008 6:53 AM
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» RE: another reason to choose vegan
Posted by: donl51
» RE: another reason to choose vegan
Posted by: Birdperson
» RE: another reason to choose vegan
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: Axiom69 on Feb 14, 2008 7:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Not IF...but WHEN
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Survival of the planet
Posted by: madmax427
» RE: Survival of the planet
Posted by: LIttleLiz
» RE: Survival of the planet
Posted by: babs
» We've not (yet) seen that level of savagery...?
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: crazy carlos on Feb 14, 2008 7:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which brings us to the 800 lb Gorillas--virtually all RELIGIONS--as in go forth and multiply!! No politians have the courage to confront this obvious problem that has to be put on the table (Ms Pelosi--listening?).
We as a people either start getting a handle on living cooperatively with Mother Nature or she will simply terminate the species. She does not need us--we need her. Muy sencillo!!
Crazy Carlos
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» RE: ADDRESS T H E CORE PROBLEM!!!
Posted by: donl51
» Atheists and gays need not worry
Posted by: Axiom69
» agree 100%
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» Well, okay, address it!
Posted by: Beck
» RE: ADDRESS T H E CORE PROBLEM!!!
Posted by: bobtr900
» Core problem not population, but first world consumption
Posted by: fork
» RE: Core problem not population, but first world consumption
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Feb 14, 2008 8:04 AM
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Posted by: jfernst on Feb 14, 2008 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Sounds like just a petty diatribe to me
Posted by: alleybear
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Posted by: willymack on Feb 14, 2008 8:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Cannibals
Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Cannibals
Posted by: babs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Feb 14, 2008 9:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Water woes, Harvey Leifert, Feb 2008, Nature
"In the western US, where water is perhaps the most precious natural resource, anthropogenic global warming is responsible for more than half of the well-documented changes to the hydrological cycle from 1950 to 1999, researchers report. Over the last half of the twentieth century, the region's mountains received less winter snow and more rain, with snow melting earlier, causing rivers to flow more strongly in the spring and more weakly in the summer."
This is already here - continental interiors are expected to continue to dry out, deserts are predicted to expand towards the poles, and flooding in coastal regions is going to continue. What we are seeing are permanent, long-term changes in a climate that has been stable ever since the end of the last Ice Age... and we're still going full speed ahead.
Corporations see new profit opportunities in water as it becomes scarce, and are currently fighting over access to the newly ice-free regions of the Arctic - for oil exploration. Short-term profit wins out over long-term destruction of the planet's ecosystems?
Sooner or later, the mainstream economists are going to have to take ecology and physical reality into consideration.
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Posted by: Libsrule on Feb 14, 2008 11:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everytime I see some program where everyone is rejoicing over some idiotic family announcing the birth of their 14th child and how everyone smiles and thinks how cute that is, I just want to throw up.
People who have that many children in today's world should be shamed. Yes they will need help but ZERO POPULATION GROWTH is what we need to strive for at the most and one child should be the ultimate goal.
Not to mention no more privatization of water.
BUT by refusing to address the problems created by overpopulation we are simply putting off the inevitible, which is world wide death through famine, death etc caused by no water.
A Pentagon report released a few years ago and then immediately withdrawen by TPTB stated water riots were going to happen within the next twenty years due to the various reason noted, Overpopulation, Poor water management, Global Climate Change and pure unadulterated greed.
The next day after it had disappeared from all the newswires the WH stated the report was just a what if sort of thing and should be ignored.
I cannot help but wonder if those in charge figure they will be immune due to their wealth and control of the military.
Are they that stupid?
I hope and pray for the day when we see CEO's and politicians of all stripes being herded through the streets in carts on their way to the chopping block...well maybe just prison for life as I am opposed to the Death penalty under any circumstances but you get my gist. And they are stripped of all the lands, wealth and power.
Then turned out into the deserts they helped to create comnpletely naked.
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» RE: The Author makes no mention of population
Posted by: babs
» RE: People who have that many children in today's world should be shamed.
Posted by: bitsfick
» My, my, my - bitter, aren't we???
Posted by: alleybear
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Posted by: Johh Galt on Feb 14, 2008 12:20 PM
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» Solutions from a fictional character
Posted by: sausage
» The Real Heroes are always the quiet ones...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: John Galt
Posted by: Sparks56
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Posted by: opmoc on Feb 14, 2008 1:45 PM
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Overpopulation is indeed the major problem, but it can be resolved in time via education and cultural change.
In the meantime we either career headlong into a massive human disaster of monumental proportions or we find solutions.
It is possible that current population levels can be sustained until they decline gracefully as is already happening in most developed societies.
There is no realistic chance whatsoever, that wind and solar power could maintain anything like current population levels.
If we simply shutdwon conventional power stations then Billions will die across the planet in a most horrendous way.
Thorium is far more abandunt than Uranium, and reactors could be built that not only would be totally safe - but could effectively be used to reduce the enormous stockpiles of plutonium.
By building Thorium reactors primarily for converting sea water into fresh water - several different problems could be solved concurrently including the safe disposal of nuclear weapons.
Of course there needs to be the will to do it, which is by far the largest problem - but India seems to be getting on with the job.
http://www.indembassyathens.gr/India-nuclear%20energy/
India_nuclear%20energy_thorium.htm
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» Nuclear Power is a Long-term Solution to Overpopulation
Posted by: PaulK
» RE: Desalianation via Thorium Nuclear Power is a Solution not a Problem
Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Desalianation via Thorium Nuclear Power is a Solution not a Problem
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Desalianation via Thorium Nuclear Power is a Solution not a Problem
Posted by: rickiey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rws on Feb 14, 2008 3:59 PM
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80% of the population lives in cities near the oceans.
There is a lot of WIDE OPEN SPACE ON EARTH .
Dine on spirulina, hemp, seed, fruit and vegetable vegitarian diet burn salt water .
N. Tesla , O. Warburg , Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
Tesla Society T.E.B.A.
youtube -burn salt water- Kanzius
The Science and Art of Being
10 billion people + policy change = no problem
6 billion people + same policy = a bloody mess
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» RE: WIDE OPEN SPACE and population
Posted by: sanddollar
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 14, 2008 5:01 PM
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Posted by: PaulK on Feb 14, 2008 5:33 PM
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A shortage of water is ended simply by realizing that we gave it all to the very rich. This happens during every environmental crisis. Then we simply ask for some of the water back, the very rich cry in their bourbon, and the ecology runs wonderfully again.
If we planned ahead and used Lake Mead exclusively for people instead of for subsidizing Gallo wine, we wouldn't have a water shortage. Most of the usage of the Oglalla Aquifer and of California's Central Valley is for rich absentee farm investors to make money.
If farmers were on a water budget, they would switch either to water-saving irrigation or to crops which, while they didn't bring in as much profit as the old crops, they don't use as much water.
Around the world it's much the same. Water is only scarce because someone took it away (or polluted it) for profit-making reasons.
Notice how farmers get to pay one tenth as much for their water. Also notice how, when the water runs out, farmers get first dibs on the last remaining drops.
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Posted by: otto on Feb 14, 2008 5:35 PM
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Posted by: otto on Feb 14, 2008 5:35 PM
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Posted by: stfrequency on Feb 14, 2008 6:16 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read it here
-st
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Feb 14, 2008 7:48 PM
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Feb 15, 2008 9:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of our major cities drink greater that 50% recycled water,in other words,you and your neighbors sewage is cleaned and fed back to you out of your taps.
Does anyone remember Love Canal? Industry polluted all their drinking water and never told them. When the government got involved they bought everyone's house for pennies on the dollar and called that 'taking action'.
Yes we have a World crisis with the water supply. We need to change some of our land/water use ideas. Like severely limiting beef cattle farms, they use enough water to supply a town of a thousand people for a year in a month. We need to stop watering lawns in areas that don't really support lawns. We need to restrict the development of golf courses. Water isn't the only thing they use up,they also pollute more than most farms. We need to limit the number of 'factory farms and Mega Farms,both use too much water and pollute far more than the family farm does.
We can get out of this mess we just need to utilize that least used function of our brains,wisdom,reason and common sense.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez '08
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Posted by: macdon1 on Feb 16, 2008 7:34 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: rickiey on Feb 20, 2008 9:27 AM
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And that isn't hard. There are 20 companys out there that are just dying for the opportunity to open desalinization plants, to convert ocean water to clean water.
But environmentalists, have successfully blocked the opening most of these, on the premise that a small amount of local wildlife (the fish in the area) would be adversely affected.
Perhaps we can start worrying about humans, before it becomes an unstabilizing force?
On a side note: Carbon emission free nuclear power plants that operate near oceans, produce as a byproduct, clean, salt-free, non-irradiated water. (Saltwater is used to cool water that is used to cool reactor water, it is twice removed from reactivity). This water is turned to steam (but not the type for power purposes) which is subsequently cooled back to salt-free water.
On land, most plants simply dump this clean water back into the ocean. It's a waste. On board nuclear powered navy ships, this is how the drinking water is provided, and there is nothing wrong with it.
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Posted by: alleybear on Feb 21, 2008 11:01 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"She took a moment to talk to AlterNet in between the Canadian and U.S. legs of a book tour for Blue Covenant. (Barlow just kicked off her U.S. tour; for a list of tour stops and dates, click here)."
makes me skeptical of anything that follows.
Let's say it indicates a commercial connection between AlterNet and this author.
...OR...
To be charitable, let's say the author is being generous, to share some of her precious time between book promotions with us peons...
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» RE: Caution !!!
Posted by: alleybear
» RE: Caution !!!
Posted by: alleybear
» Judge these pieces on their merit
Posted by: sanddollar
» It helps to note...
Posted by: sanddollar
» Thanks...
Posted by: sanddollar
Water Heist: Corporations Are Targeting Cash-Strapped Cities for Control of Their Public Water
Is Schwarzenegger's Big Drought Over?
Is New York's Budget Deficit Leading it to Adopt Natural Gas Drilling Practices That Threaten Drinking Water?




