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Water

Sea Levels Are Rising: It's Time to Decide Which Coastal Cities Are Worth Saving

By Scott Thill, AlterNet. Posted April 17, 2009.


Ice cubes the size of American states are melting into the ocean; we face frightening scenarios and tough choices for coastal habitation.
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Since April Fool's Day expired, there has been nothing but bad news about Earth's various ice shelves circulating through the news. Antarctica's Wordie and Larsen ice shelves? The first is simply gone, and the second is disappearing fast. How about the Connecticut-sized Wilkins shelf? It has fragmented into polar pieces after the ice tether holding it to the Antarctic peninsula snapped this week, signaling that the Earth is undergoing some profound changes. 

So what do melting ice shelves a world away have to do with the rest of us? That is where the fools come in.

"This continued and often-significant glacier retreat is a wakeup call that change is happening," USGS glaciologist Jane Ferrigno explained in a joint United States Geological Survey and British Antarctic Survey on the melt. "Antarctica is of special interest, because it holds an estimated 91 percent of the Earth's glacier volume, and change anywhere in the ice sheet poses significant hazards to society."

In other words, giant ice cubes the size of American states melting into the ocean should worry everyone on Earth living in a territory with a coast, and even those without. That includes California, which went under the climatalogical microscope in a recent Pacific Institute analysis on sea-rise bankrolled by the California Energy Commission, California Department of Transportation and the Ocean Protection Council.

Mashing together data on exponential polar melts, rising seas and coastal development, it came to a relatively reasonable conclusion.

"Sea-level rise will change the character of the California coast," Pacific Institute Senior Research Associate and study co-author Heather Cooley, tolddrow AlterNet. "My sense is that there are areas we will protect and areas we will abandon. We need to begin the process now."

The Pacific Institute's analysis is a sobering combination of science, statistics and maps illustrating the ravages of inevitable sea rise that will result once the Antarctica and Arctic melts pass their tipping points, so to speak.

But scanning its Google Maps mash-up of California's drowned cities feels like something out of science fiction. A Californian myself, I noticed more than a few areas housing my relatives and friends inundated by the Pacific Ocean, but that's just a personal tragedy.

A greater civic devastation comes sharply into focus once you notice all the schools, ports, hospitals, treatment facilities and Environmental Protection Agency-regulated sites, police and fire stations and much more that will no longer be part of the land, but a permanent resident of the ocean floor.

And that's not counting the various commercial developments, finished and otherwise, or the money that went into planning and building them, that will be lost forever.

Spend an hour looking at the maps and cycling through scenarios from San Francisco to San Diego, and you feel a dystopian shudder crawl up your spine. Of course, California is but a microcosm of a greater global peril ushered into being by our unwinding climate crisis.

Wall Street, a few meters above sea level, will also be swallowed, along with much of New York City, as ocean circulation winds down in the Atlantic, subjecting the Northeast to hyperviolent storms and surges. (Of course, given its role in our current "econopocalypse," few might not consider that such a bad thing.)

Another world away, southern Africa has been swamped by floods worse than anything the region has experienced in decades, which has killed over 100 and made 100,000 homeless.

Closer to home, North and South America are on alert to sea rise: From New York and Florida to Mexico, Brazil and beyond. Climate change will irrevocably alter the landscape and claim thousands, if not millions, of lives, if nothing is done to ameliorate the inevitable.

Which is where the Pacific Institute study comes in, which was designed to be as much a land-use manual as a climatalogical study.


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See more stories tagged with: water, global warming, climate change, oceans, sea level rise

Scott Thill runs the online mag Morphizm. His writing has appeared on Salon, XLR8R, All Music Guide, Wired and others.

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Global warming
Posted by: pelican beak on Apr 17, 2009 12:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It will show we don't have our collective act together any better than the octomom does.

Our children will best understand what that means.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Government caused this! Posted by: PaulK
» RE: Big government caused this? Posted by: HillbillyRob
What, me worry?!?
Posted by: Schnookums on Apr 17, 2009 1:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been lead to believe that global warming is all in Al Gore's head....this report shocks and confuses me.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: What, me worry?!? Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: What, me worry?!? Posted by: eggnog2464
If big government would quit subsidizing corporate America, sea levels wouldn't be rising so fast.
Posted by: Sports Warrior Casey Jones on Apr 17, 2009 1:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Government has the nerve to subsidize agri-business, big oil, big coal, etc ... and yet it does nothing for those of us who save, ride bikes to work, go solar, etc ... This article is poorly written and the author might as well drown in doody land, LOL ! Then again, I'll be moving to TX from the NY ghetto asap so that I don't have to worry about those gun grabbing fascist cops.

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Please can we get down to the real truth?
Posted by: Blacktiger1 on Apr 17, 2009 2:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are going to see another "Noah's Nightmare"!!!! Which was caused by a VERY large ice plate at the Antartic that plopped into the ocean. At the same time weather was affected and hurricans, tornados, tsunamies, volcanos, earthquakes. There was also a pole shift and the area that is now the North Pole was once near the equator. Come this August 2009 you will get a taste of what is coming, because Mars is going to be the closest to Earth in thousands of years, causing gravitational pull, rising tides, and more vile stuff.This is the stuff of "End of Days"!!!The Vatican knows what I'm speaking of and they are watching the approach from their observatory at the South Pole. You will soon see with your naked eyes as you scan the skies, a large planet swinging through the solar system between Mars and Jupiter. Nibiru is our 12th Planet and it's year [sha] is up and it's returning. You are not being told because the world bigwigs don't want panic, where as if they had taught us what we needed to know instead of filling their wallets we would be prepared.Lightworkers are preparing, but could sure use some extra help, contact Lightworkers around the world and find out how to help.

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» Whahahahahahahahahaha!!!! Posted by: Valis667
» OOOOh this is PRICELESS! Posted by: singer222
» RE: OOOOh this is PRICELESS! Posted by: Squarehead
» 9/11 was a Nibiru job!! Posted by: rickiey
» The Papal Igloo Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: The Papal Igloo Posted by: mandiwrite
» Just for you. Posted by: Reader in Japan
» Here is more information on that topic. Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: How can I help? Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: The real truth? Posted by: Reader in Japan
Real truth
Posted by: phead0 on Apr 17, 2009 2:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real truth is, that the ice caps and glaciers are melting - the Alternet story and the "Lightworker" comment are but two ways of presenting it - as Alfred E Neumann is wont to exclaim "what me worry". When the time actually comes and nothing has been done, then will the truth be realised whicever way it is written.

The Vatican meanwhile continues to hold the belief the the earth is flat - like so many others and, that such calamities will simply fall off the edge and disappear. An act of the Lord saving Vaticanised mankind from the evils of nature.

The author of the article should however study the English language a little more and desist from such "soap dramatism" over such an important issue as the ice melt.

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» RE: eal truth Posted by: Blacktiger1
» RE: eal truth Posted by: mjglow
» I once saw Posted by: Reader in Japan
I Plan to Moor My Houseboat on Wall Street
Posted by: jbpazz on Apr 17, 2009 2:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your article is refreshing after so much Al Gore gloom and doom. A natural for Forbes Magazine, the series on the most profitable mountaintop retreats could prosper for years. Who will be the first to sell ice cubes to the Eskimos?

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» Ice cubes for eskimos Posted by: PaulK
This is bad because?
Posted by: johnwinthrop on Apr 17, 2009 3:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You all know the "coast" has been in different places over hundreds of millions of years? Even ten thousand years ago, inland seas and glaciers covered the land. Parts of North America attached to other continents, and then continental drift. It changes folks.

Ah, there was coastal property on the Eastern Shore of Maryland I craved a few years ago but I said, naaah, here today, gone tomorrow. and some of the land today indeed is gone! I wish all my investment decisions had been so wise.

And,do the NY Yankees have an indemnity clause if Yankee Stadium is underwater? Probably. Bloomberg might have had it inked at the megabillionaires bash known as Opening Day at the one billion dollar taxpayer financed bash the Yankees threw themselves at our expense. And our means YOU. Federal money poured into Yankee Stadium as well as NY money. Stimulus. For Alex Rodriguez. And you can't get flood insurance?

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» RE: This is bad because? Posted by: adp3d
» RE: This is bad because? Posted by: alive
» RE: This is bad because? Posted by: johnwinthrop
Mountain real estate
Posted by: Christian Southern Liberal on Apr 17, 2009 4:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I left the coast and moved to western North Carolina. The Asheville area is awesome, lots of liberals from the 60's and 70's influx of hippies who came here to "blow up their TV, grow a little garden..." (organic, of course;-)

Anyway, NC went "blue" this election (I helped) and we could use more progressives to build a sustainable economy. So, if yo live near the coast in a red state that isn't ever going to change and want to help build a solidly blue state then come on up to the mountains!

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» RE: Mountain real estate Posted by: HillbillyRob
» RE: Mountain real estate Posted by: Christian Southern Liberal
» RE: Mountain real estate Posted by: koolwoman
» RE: Mountain real estate Posted by: Christian Southern Liberal
» RE: Mountain real estate Posted by: HoboHomo
» since you asked Posted by: Christian Southern Liberal
» RE: since you asked Posted by: UP58
» RE: since you asked Posted by: Christian Southern Liberal
BART or NYC flooding
Posted by: robchapman on Apr 17, 2009 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article indicates that sea level rising will be an incremental and manageable process.

What will we do after a major hurricane floods New York's subways or the BART system in San Fransisco, or if another major coastal city like Jacksonville or Virginia Beach is flooded and destroyed?

Events like these will set off a large and steady migration away from coastal areas.

Where will all these people go?

We should start planning now.

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» Bagels By Olaf Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: BART or NYC flooding Posted by: richholland
» RE: BART or NYC flooding Posted by: Zeugitai
Scientific Investigation Shows NO Rise
Posted by: George DeCarlo on Apr 17, 2009 4:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rise of sea levels is 'the greatest lie ever told'

The uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story, writes Christopher Booker.

If one thing more than any other is used to justify proposals that the world must spend tens of trillions of dollars on combating global warming, it is the belief that we face a disastrous rise in sea levels. The Antarctic and Greenland ice caps will melt, we are told, warming oceans will expand, and the result will be catastrophe.

Although the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) only predicts a sea level rise of 59cm (17 inches) by 2100, Al Gore in his Oscar-winning film An Inconvenient Truth went much further, talking of 20 feet, and showing computer graphics of cities such as Shanghai and San Francisco half under water. We all know the graphic showing central London in similar plight. As for tiny island nations such as the Maldives and Tuvalu, as Prince Charles likes to tell us and the Archbishop of Canterbury was again parroting last week, they are due to vanish.

But if there is one scientist who knows more about sea levels than anyone else in the world it is the Swedish geologist and physicist Nils-Axel Mörner, formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change. And the uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner, who for 35 years has been using every known scientific method to study sea levels all over the globe, is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story.

Despite fluctuations down as well as up, "the sea is not rising," he says. "It hasn't risen in 50 years." If there is any rise this century it will "not be more than 10cm (four inches), with an uncertainty of plus or minus 10cm". And quite apart from examining the hard evidence, he says, the elementary laws of physics (latent heat needed to melt ice) tell us that the apocalypse conjured up by Al Gore and Co could not possibly come about.

The reason why Dr Mörner, formerly a Stockholm professor, is so certain that these claims about sea level rise are 100 per cent wrong is that they are all based on computer model predictions, whereas his findings are based on "going into the field to observe what is actually happening in the real world".

When running the International Commission on Sea Level Change, he launched a special project on the Maldives, whose leaders have for 20 years been calling for vast sums of international aid to stave off disaster. Six times he and his expert team visited the islands, to confirm that the sea has not risen for half a century. Before announcing his findings, he offered to show the inhabitants a film explaining why they had nothing to worry about. The government refused to let it be shown.

Similarly in Tuvalu, where local leaders have been calling for the inhabitants to be evacuated for 20 years, the sea has if anything dropped in recent decades. The only evidence the scaremongers can cite is based on the fact that extracting groundwater for pineapple growing has allowed seawater to seep in to replace it. Meanwhile, Venice has been sinking rather than the Adriatic rising, says Dr Mörner.

One of his most shocking discoveries was why the IPCC has been able to show sea levels rising by 2.3mm a year. Until 2003, even its own satellite-based evidence showed no upward trend. But suddenly the graph tilted upwards because the IPCC's favoured experts had drawn on the finding of a single tide-gauge in Hong Kong harbour showing a 2.3mm rise. ....

....

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» Learn More About Nils-Axel Mörner Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» so what......... Posted by: gellero1
Nature Bats Last.
Posted by: Sparks56 on Apr 17, 2009 5:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The relevant question is not how are we going to save coastal areas; we can't. The challenge is how are we going to re-locate millions of people who currently live in soon-to-be-inundated coastal areas. What about agricultural areas? Not mentioned in the article are large river valleys. If the Gulf of Mexico rises 10 ft so does the Mississippi River. Will Memphis become a Gulf port city? Will California's Central Valley once again become an inland sea? Much of the Sacramento River delta is already held back by dikes and levies that occasionally fail. The Amazon Basin? The Nile Delta? The Yangtse? Vast amounts of food come from these areas.
Hundreds of millions of people dislocated, the most productive farmland lost. Hurricanes, droughts, and wildfires. Narure bats last and she's got a huge bat.

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» Waste Disposal Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Waste Disposal Posted by: Sparks56
A global carbon tax paid directly to bankers will save us
Posted by: TrollTreason on Apr 17, 2009 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they are laughing at you.

how about abolishing the filthy 120 year old internal combustion engine....no, we cant do that

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» we need a FLUX CAPACITOR !! Posted by: gellero1
andyfletch42
Posted by: andyfletch42 on Apr 17, 2009 6:06 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Though this may have already been said, and not to minimize the story, but the ice in Antarctica that is in danger of sliding away from the rest of it all is not going to raise sea-levels, since it is already in the sea, not sitting on land. In fact, it will lower sea levels a bit, since when ice in water melts, it shrinks (water expands when it freezes, unlike everything else). It's the ice sitting on land (Greenland, for example) that, if it slides into the ocean, will fill all the Starbucks in NYC with water.

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» RE: andyfletch42 Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: andyfletch42 Posted by: cplot
popham.smith@gmail.com
Posted by: popham on Apr 17, 2009 6:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The definitive case for global warming has yet
to be made. Melting glaciers, rising tides;
villages, towns and even major cities devoid of
habitat? Where are the scientists,
concervationists
and economists going with all
this 'information'? Tens of billions of dollars
to safeguard our coastal areas? The manpower,
the equipment and resources required would be
huge. Perhaps there is the element of fear
mongering in order to raise and spend enormous
amounts of money for a 'catastrophe' that may
or may not be on our doorstep. Mr. Gore has
already made a lot of money from his dire
warnings. To turn those warnings into action
will cost every ocean exposed nation great
expense, not only in terms of fiscal sacrifice,
but also human displacement and suffering.
We should tread the waters of these global
warming threats very carefully before taking
the multiple preventative and costly steps to
avert the unprecictable and the predictable.

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» RE: popham.smith@gmail.com Posted by: wagner
» Does any of this matter? Posted by: LMNOP
Melt Down - Boring Mountains
Posted by: Jonalist on Apr 17, 2009 6:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where is the concern ever given to Boring Mountains under ocean waters and building cities underwater? Material handling is of a better alternative to solve Melt Down Conserns and to have robots doing the work makes it feasible. Processing of materials obtained from the oceans would be a matter of where to store all the material awaiting processing. If America and South America has little space available to store excavated material we might look towards Russia, India and Africa or the Middle East. For every mountain removed theres a mountain of material to process then theres the waste that is processed that would have to go back or be compacted into masses to store back under the ocean waters. Our vast capability to do this work is the alternative to combat the problem of Melt Down. It is not a serious matter unless we do not consider this avenue to attack it in its early stages to get ahead of it occurring. Science and technology can only advance, rather than springing out more Al Gore Seminars. If you were asked if you wanted a Internet before Internet sprang into your home you would probably have said, 'Yes Of Course'. So now, 'Yes Of Course' seems the best solution here. Are we so naive to miss the developing nations appeals for materials that we are piggish to not consider where they might obtain materials for future development. I think the problem is over exagerated by media that has no development from ocean materials to report about, given that much logic media could go back to demanding a lower cost of recycled materials so they can stop demanding a bailout from government. Obama could have considered recycled material cost gouging to make that his campaign to decrease the demand on government. Let's go to a massive material solution for the world at large and see if the world is ready for developing their lands with regard to what we might see from Global Warming so to not increase the cost of materials inadvertantly. Electric machinery that would be water tight environmental machinery is our goal in this respect so the depths of our oceans can be explored and excavated and that would make room for more water and remove any and all threats against rising waters of the oceans.

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Move to Milwaukee!! Elevation 634'
Posted by: AJR Journal on Apr 17, 2009 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Global climate change is not all bad!
Milwaukee has:
1) At 634" above sea level, you can melt every last piece of ice and snow and we will be just fine.
2) On the shores of Lake Michigan, Milwaukee has fresh water up the wazoo.
3) At 43 degrees latitude, more warm weather can only help. It will shorten our harsh winters.
I love global warming!
Escape to Milwaukee!!

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» Shlemiel, schlemazzel Posted by: LMNOP
» I love Milwaukee!! Posted by: AJR Journal
» I STILL love global warming! Posted by: AJR Journal
Water
Posted by: JTMixer5 on Apr 17, 2009 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hmm, I think I am going to start thinking about going back to living on a sailboat!

RT
Online Privacy when it Counts

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ba
Posted by: mnstra on Apr 17, 2009 6:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
good article , but way into the future and no need to scare people now. It is , however my hope that Dubai will be first to go under water.

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» Dubai is the Definition of Bad Taste Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Bad taste???....NO..PROGRESS Posted by: gellero1
Evidence of relatively rapid sea level rise uncovered
Posted by: PaulK on Apr 17, 2009 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Google (news from April 15) two scientists who have been studying coral reef formations in order to observe a rapid sea level rise in geologic history. They're estimating that a 4 to 6 meter rise by 2100 is possible based on past events. It's not as fast as a 20 foot storm surge, of course.

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Atlanta
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Apr 17, 2009 7:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's a joke, son. Ah say, that's a JOKE.


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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David
Posted by: BobbyIrons on Apr 17, 2009 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Global sea ice is above 1979-2009 average. There was much attention paid in the media to the crack in the Wilkins Ice sheet bridge. It was not even reflected as a blip on the Southern Hemisphere ice extent, which has grown rapidly as the southern hemisphere winter set in to 1,150,000 square kms above the normal for this date and rising rapidly.

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/ cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg

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Take a stand
Posted by: LMNOP on Apr 17, 2009 7:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everybody should have to commit to one pole or the other in this issue and commit to the permanent record their declaration that this either may be a genuine concern or it should definitely be ignored. Then, in the future, you can either proudly hold up your certificate of nongullibility if you were right, or you can live in the sewers or on a coral reef if you weren't. Because I wouldn't help those that are fighting this fight from the wrong side in ignorance now. You've trusted the wrong people, and you'd like me to trust them too. When the time comes, my charity will be limited to those who were not part of the problem.

I've got a conservative cousin who just lost his home and job. From a six figure income as a day trader during the bubble back to his $37,000/yr. teaching position after a period of transience / homelessness / living in cars with a wife and two kids. Sorry. I won't make room for Limbaugh citing conservatives. Remember, these people have recently treated us like enemies of the state: America hater, terrorist supporter, coward, parasites. I'm just not that evolved. What was all that? Am I supposed to pretend it never happened? That half the country didn't align with their church and Party over fellow Americans if they were of the wrong ideology? Those people are nothing to me now. Too late to just come together as Americans.

If, like my cousin, you've been opposed to the idea of a social safety net, then stand by your principles now, cousin, and don't scam it with claims like that FEMA benefit you lost no time collecting. And don't come to me now needing a place to stay. Ask a Republican for help. Or a church. Isn't that just? And isn't that enough. Mercy and forgiveness is asking
too much.

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Byron Jim
Posted by: Byron Jim on Apr 17, 2009 8:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a young boy about 7, I saw a newsreel at my hometown theater about how the polar icecaps were melting and then they depicted what New York City might look like in the near future. (skyscrapers half under water and of course the statue of liberty was in water up to her waist). It scared the hell out of me.

That was approximately 60 years ago as I am now 67. I know that 60 years is a very short time in geologic years but I still feel that our experts are a little like Chicken Little saying the sky is falling. I predict one-hundred or even a thousand years from now (I won't be around for anyone to call me wrong) that the coastlines on Earth will appear pretty much the same as they do now. I won't argue about global warming or other climate changes. I agree there are already some weather changes associated with global warming. But I don't buy into the drastic rise in sea level predicted by the 'experts'.

I hope I am right for the sake of this wonderful planet we live on.

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» RE: Byron Jim Posted by: DaBear
"Global Warming" is Al Gore (the NWO/globalist whore) propaganda!
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Apr 17, 2009 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course the corporations & unregulated countries like China & India are polluting/poisoning us to death, but "Global Warming" is a scam to further tax & control us sheeple!!!

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Can't all this water be used for desalination ?
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Apr 17, 2009 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And if the sea levels are rising, why not help cut down the rising unemployment along the coasts by providing such jobs? Aren't there companies out there that specialize in all this? Am I misunderstanding something here?

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China and Boring Mountains
Posted by: Jonalist on Apr 17, 2009 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is affecting China more than China realizes. Their outlets are backing up and the flow is decreasing which is causing inland water tributary changes as well as additional polluted waters. China of all nations in environmental issues should realize this, their scientist should mark off that if the trend continues there will be bad repercussions that cannot be changed and that will mean a lot of planning to offset the conditions of bad water quality. China therefore could help in manufacturing underwater robotic equipment that could excavate the oceans.

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There's more ...
Posted by: monkeywrench on Apr 17, 2009 9:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What was not mentioned concerning the impact of rising sea level on California is the effect on agriculture. A 55 inch rise would send salt water much farther up the Sacramento and San Joaquin Rivers, destroying tens of thousands of square miles of prime farmland. Even long before that level is reached, the effect on food production would be painfully apparent. We cannot afford to lose agricultural production – nor can the rest of the world, which will be grappling with the same problem.

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» Sounds like Krypton Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Of course we can afford it !! Posted by: gellero1
Bush does it again
Posted by: Archie1954 on Apr 17, 2009 9:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just chalk up another disaster to Bush and his team of idealogues. Eight years of remedial work have been lost because of him. In actual fact his sojourn increased the problem as he worked very diligently to destroy the environment while he held the reins.

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I Suggest This Experiment
Posted by: scot on Apr 17, 2009 10:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fill a glass with ice cubes, then pour in water up to the brim. Wait while the cubes melt. See if the glass overflows.

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» So What Posted by: johnwinthrop
Flooded Cities?
Posted by: jal64 on Apr 17, 2009 11:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We will be much better off working to mitigate any damage caused by rising waters than ruin our economies trying to prevent the inevitable. ESPECIALLY since man has done nothing to cause the problem in the first place and it's simply inconceivable man can do anything to prevent it.

Any global warming we may experience is nothing more difficult to understand than that it is a repeating NATURAL CYCLE. Most likely caused by small changes in the sun. There have been at least TWO other periods of time in the last 3000 years where AVERAGE GLOBAL temperatures were 2+ degrees warmer than the current computer models predict for our future. There have been at least TWO periods of time in the last 150 years when the Arctic Ocean thawed to the point where ship passage would have been possible. WERE THOSE CONDITIONS CAUSED BY HUMAN ACTIVITY? I THINK NOT! WAS THE EXISTING CIVILIZATION DESTROYED OR EVEN THREATENED? I THINK NOT!

THINK ON THIS: (1) The Al Gore's of the world stand to make millions off this scam. (2) The "greenies" say to use solar or wind energy to reduce CO2 and then they turn around and scream bloody murder over wind farms that impinge on bird habits or solar farms that "damage" animal habitat.

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Mr.
Posted by: bar5608 on Apr 17, 2009 12:11 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether or not the sea level rises will be evident in the near future. Some islands in the South Pacific are already suffering from rising water, so its just silly to deny the facts. But we have an urgent problem not related to sea levels. The increasing violence along our Southern border is becoming a very serious problem for all of us. It reaches clear across the Nation, and into Canada.
The solution is so simple its mind numbing. The answer is for the Fed to send emmissaries, like Lou Dobbs and Lush Blimpaugh, over to Afgahnistan, and Pakistan, with enough US dollars to buy all the Cocain and Heroin production they can find and whatever price seems fair. Do the same in South America. Then bring the stuff to the USA and set up feeding stations in every major City, and give the stuff away for free. The only people interested in it will be the hop heads who are already hooked, so let them OD. Bury them and forget them. We could use the money saved from the useless Border Guarding and fencing, and the reduced law enforcement requirments to finance the endeavor. We may have to bail out the Winchester and Smith & Wesson folks, who will almost be put out of business, but that's the only down side I can see.

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» RE: Mr. Posted by: jal64
» RE: Mr. what-do-we-do Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Mr. what-do-we-do Posted by: jal64
THAT'S NOT ALL WE'RE DOING
Posted by: Birdland on Apr 17, 2009 12:13 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In addition to heating up the Earth, we are heating up all the planets in our solar system! Mankind is devastating the entire solar system. Where do we go next? Mars?

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» Change You Can Believe In Posted by: johnwinthrop
Let's be clear about the melting
Posted by: downbylaw on Apr 17, 2009 12:41 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just want to be clear concerning the Arctic and Antarctic melting that is underway. Any sea-based ice that melts, like Antarctic ice shelves, will not raise sea levels. Only the melting of
LAND-based ice will raise sea levels. This would include the glaciers covering Greenland and the Antarctic continent. The melting of the Arctic
sea ice will NOT raise sea levels. However, the melting of floating ice shelves could hasten the melting of land-based ice, so it might be an ominous sign of things to come.

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» Hello? Posted by: helenahanbasquet
Global Warming in a Climate of Ignorance
Posted by: George DeCarlo on Apr 17, 2009 1:22 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THE ELECTRIC UNIVERSE

NEWS ITEM - 15 February 2007

Global Warming in a Climate of Ignorance

"As for the promised control of nature, it is in rout before nature unleashed."
-Jacques Barzun, Science: the glorious entertainment

"Next we come to a question that everyone, scientist and non-scientist alike, must have asked at some time. What is man's place in the Universe?"
-Fred Hoyle, The Nature of the Universe


Global warming has been deemed a fact. However, the inconvenient truth is that humans are not causing it. Al Gore has been given poor advice. Like Darwin's theory of evolution and Big Bang cosmology, global warming by greenhouse gas emissions has undergone that curious social process in which a scientific theory is promoted to a secular myth. When in fact, science is ignorant about the source of the heat — the Sun.

The really inconvenient truth is that we cannot control Nature. But we can begin to learn our true place in the Universe and figure out how to cope rationally with inevitable change. Clearly, reducing air pollution is an admirable goal in itself. But we must not be deluded into thinking it will affect climate significantly. The connection between warming and atmospheric pollution is more asserted than demonstrated, while the connection with variations in the Sun has been demonstrated.

The Sun is undergoing a power surge

....click link above for complete article

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» School Days Name Calling as a defense Posted by: George DeCarlo
» As for the math Posted by: George DeCarlo
Should care, kind of don't
Posted by: BlueTigress on Apr 17, 2009 1:32 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If New York City floods, they will immediately crank up the media machine and repaint themselves as the "Venice of North America". Either that or the media machine will scream "Save Me!" and demand floods of money to build a system of pumps and flood walls to keep them dry. Either way, they will most certainly look out for #1.

California can go hang. Most of that state is a desert, but is populated by people who want to think they live in the East. Their wasteful use of water has contributed to the damage of the ecology in the region, along with Las Vegas and ALL the area around Lake Tahoe.

Come to Detroit! We're well above sea level, have loads of fresh water and if you decide you've really had it, there's a foreign country just across the river!

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» California Dreamin' Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Should care, kind of don't Posted by: HoboHomo
Geezerme
Posted by: geezerme on Apr 17, 2009 1:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rising sea levels, global warming and nearly every concern for most environmental Problems can quite largely be connected to one great problem -- over-population of the little planet we live on. It is people who want energy from fossil fuels. It is people who want the timber that prompts the cutting of old growth timber.

At a growth rate of slightly above 1.03% per year, we will have an additional half billion mouths to feed in only ten more years.

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which is why
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Apr 17, 2009 2:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you didn't see economist screaming about rebuilding New Orleans for housing...

its gonna be under water like Florida.

it wasn't ONLY the racism & classism...

much of those regions *were build on fraudulent reports of flood safety* & sold to the Poor anyway...

*tah*DAH*
corruption always shows its head eventually.

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» Nonsense Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Hi Harry Reid. You Are Stupid. Posted by: johnwinthrop
YOYO
Posted by: DaBear on Apr 17, 2009 2:55 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's what the Republikaaner-Dim owning class has wrought: You're On Your Own.

I'm inland but coastal enough to benefit from the ocean breeze and marine layer. Too much elevation to be "beach front" but I imagine when there's no more water piped in from elsewhere, the party's over. I predict mass forced migration, camps and the whole bit, all run by Xe and other mercs, edicts imposed by Republikaaner Gropen-fuhrer, aid dependent upon who you know (just like Hollywhacked) or your adherence to Xtian nationalism, your available cash on hand, whether you own land somewhere, etc. The owning class will take care of each other and the rest will be tossed into holes.

Or not.

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It doesn't matter if true or not...
Posted by: EJW on Apr 17, 2009 3:23 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and arguing about it wastes valuable time. We will never agree on this issue. But and this is a large but, we can agree that we are being killed by pollution of our water (fresh and salt) and need to act now on that. In fact we need to act fast on toxic chemicals in the biosphere in total.

Interesting note on the sited report, the Map (google) attached to it didn't show the San Onofre Power station. That will most certainly be underwater ... how are you going to handle that??? Boy are underwater nuclear plants around the world going to add to toxics in the environment.

This rising sea levels, global warming brohaha is just a smoke screen to keep the masses (us) from seeing and talking about the real problems we are facing.

We need clean water - maybe the time to harvest ice bergs is here -- I recall a sci-fi story in the old magazine Omni (miss that one) about LA getting it's drinking water from towed ice bergs.

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Not part of a consipiracy
Posted by: reg373 on Apr 17, 2009 5:22 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe the data is accurate , but the skepticism may be coming from the fact that this winter and the last several have involved near-record cold for the Midwest and Northeast.

It's irrelevant when you consider we have to move to energy independence via biofuels anyway -- found a cool site; Balkingpoints.com -- awesome satellite camera view of earth

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Global Warming & Chicken Little
Posted by: gweick on Apr 18, 2009 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a curious and often recurring event that the Global Warming Alarmists not only repeat the same refrain "the ice shelves are falling; the ice shelves are falling", but also present the same pictures and data from previous years as if normal climate change did not exist, i.e., the regular cyclic "breathing" or expansion and contraction of Antarctic ice.
Fortunately, this discussion has continued with scientific objectivity and circumspection among honest scientists who withhold judgment until the facts can be understood in their larger context, i.e., the greater climatic cycles and the complex factors that drive them: sunspot cycles, wind and ocean currents and temperatures, aerosols, etc.
For a bigger picture concerning the ice shelves in Antarctica see

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/17/

Beware the panic-press and panic-politicians who have other designs for those they can control by fear. Indeed, what waits at panic's end is nothing other than the fox's den. Here is the rhyme:

CHICKEN LITTLE

Chicken Little was in the woods,
A seed fell on his tail.
He met Henny Penny and said,

"The sky is falling.
I saw it with my eyes.
I heard it with my ears.
Some of it fell on my tail."

He met Turkey Lurkey, Ducky Lucky,
and Goosey Loosey.
They ran to tell the king.

They met Foxy Loxy.
They ran into his den,
And they did not come out again.

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Free market survival
Posted by: angry_liberal on Apr 18, 2009 4:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The best way to figure out "which cities are worth saving": provide no federal funding for efforts to save those cities. The cities or regions that have no real reason to exist will simply melt away, and their populations will re-locate to those places whose people and corporations make the infrastructural investments needed to protect themselves.

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Air Pollution
Posted by: Christian Southern Liberal on Apr 18, 2009 4:59 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For those of you who don't believe that Global Warming is man-made then join us to fight air pollution. We all have to breathe and our air is VERY POLLUTED.

Stop air pollution now!!!

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Trade you Christmas for global warming
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar on Apr 21, 2009 4:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you think about it it makes sense.

Both are concepts that rely mostly on vague historical data, hearsay, and conjecture.

Both require a certain level of blind faith in order to be believed.

Believers of both are sure that both religions, if not taken seriously will result in the end of all mankind.

So if the Christians and the Global warming folks would get together they would both enjoy fringe benefits from the others belief.

The Christians could enjoy the fact that they now have cleaner air and less pollution for subscribing to the Warmers religion.

The Warmers can enjoy exchanging gifts, putting up a tree (plastic of course) and having a big Christmas dinner in exchange for appeasing the Christians.

Two religions, bound at the hip for the common benefits of the others belief.

Sounds like Heaven, or Apollo, or something.

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» RE: I almost forgot Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
Bullshit
Posted by: hilly7 on Apr 26, 2009 5:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When looking at these maps of claiming global warmng, ask which pistures you are actually seeing, summer or winter. This is a fraud.

Yes, we are allowing corporations to screw up our world. No, paying a tax to the banks via the governments (will become singular)will not stop (key word here) nature.

How did the fail to show where South Pole is refreezing while the other side is thawing?

How did they miss 196,000 miles of ice in the North Pole.

I hope that people are smart enoug to notice the weather, especially this past winter.

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Anthony D'Auria
Posted by: Tony D on Apr 26, 2009 10:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Much to many words have been used expressing thoughts on this phenomena. My grandfather once told me that when faced with a very complex problem it is best to sit and twiddle your thumbs rather than putting your finger into it as the results can be disastrous. Also, when everyone thinks they have the answer to a very complex phenomena that is the time to contemplate that they are just plain wrong!

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Our environmental
Posted by: LaraJ on May 13, 2009 1:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our environmental problem is getting worse. That’s why we must now do something for us to fix the problem on our environment. By the way, Alex Rodriguez has been making headlines, and this newest batch is about allegations of pitch tipping. Pitch tipping is a method of discovering what pitches a pitcher is going to throw, and it is illegal. As if he doesn't have enough credit repair to do over steroids and the whole Madonna debacle, reporter Selena Roberts purports in her book, The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez, that he gave away pitches to opposing players for the same in return, in order to boost his batting stats. Alex Rodriguez is infamous (especially in Seattle – don't even mention his name there) but he'd doubtless give online payday loans to make it all go away.

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