COMMENTS: 125
Is Economic Recovery Even Possible on a Planet Headed for Environmental Collapse?
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It turns out that you don't want to be a former city dweller in rural parts of southernmost Australia, a stalk of wheat in China or Iraq, a soybean in Argentina, an almond or grape in northern California, a cow in Texas, or almost anything in parts of east Africa right now. Let me explain.
As anyone who has turned on the prime-time TV news these last weeks knows, southeastern Australia has been burning up. It's already dry climate has been growing ever hotter. "The great drying," Australian environmental scientist Tim Flannery calls it. At its epicenter, Melbourne recorded its hottest day ever this month at a sweltering 115.5 degrees, while temperatures soared even higher in the surrounding countryside. After more than a decade of drought, followed by the lowest rainfall on record, the eucalyptus forests are now burning. To be exact, they are now pouring vast quantities of stored carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas considered largely responsible for global warming, into the atmosphere.
In fact, everything's been burning there. Huge sheets of flame, possibly aided and abetted by arsonists, tore through whole towns. More than 180 people are dead and thousands homeless. Flannery, who has written eloquently about global warming, drove through the fire belt, and reported:
"It was as if a great cremation had taken place… I was born in Victoria, and over five decades I've watched as the state has changed. The long, wet and cold winters that seemed insufferable to me as a boy vanished decades ago, and for the past 12 years a new, drier climate has established itself… I had not appreciated the difference a degree or two of extra heat and a dry soil can make to the ferocity of a fire. This fire was different from anything seen before."
Australia, by the way, is a wheat-growing breadbasket for the world and its wheat crops have been hurt in recent years by continued drought.
Meanwhile, central China is experiencing the worst drought in half a century. Temperatures have been unseasonably high and rainfall, in some areas, 80% below normal; more than half the country's provinces have been affected by drought, leaving millions of Chinese and their livestock without adequate access to water. In the region which raises 95% of the country's winter wheat, crop production has already been impaired and is in further danger without imminent rain. All of this represents a potential financial catastrophe for Chinese farmers at a moment when about 20 million migrant workers are estimated to have lost their jobs in the global economic meltdown. Many of those workers, who left the countryside for China's booming cities (and remitted parts of their paychecks to rural areas), may now be headed home jobless to potential disaster. A Wall Street Journal report concludes, "Some scientists warn China could face more frequent droughts as a result of global warming and changes in farming patterns."
Globe-jumping to the Middle East, Iraq, which makes the news these days mainly for spectacular suicide bombings or the politics of American withdrawal, turns out to be another country in severe drought. Americans may think of Iraq as largely desert, but (as we were all taught in high school) the lands between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, the "fertile crescent," are considered the homeland of agriculture, not to speak of human civilization.
Well, not so fertile these days, it seems. The worst drought in at least a decade and possibly a farming lifetime is expected to reduce wheat production by at least half; while the country's vast marshlands, once believed to be the location of the Garden of Eden, have been turned into endless expanses of baked mud. That region, purposely drained by dictator Saddam Hussein to tame rebellious "Marsh Arabs," is now experiencing the draining power of nature.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: -matti on Feb 19, 2009 12:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its time to drop efficiency and take up resiliency.
Its Storm time now.
I feel more strongly than ever that we need to decommission all nuclear weapons ASAP. Or at least the vast majority. I read that Obama is looking to reduce the stockpiles to 1,000 each for U.S. and Russia. Groovy, BUT I believe that is still enough to bring about "nuclear winter" EACH.
If things get as bad, as soon, as now looks possible we need as few nukes around as we can get. War and conflict and famine and death will be bad enough without "total eradication of advanced life" weapons on hair-trigger alert.
I know we'll likely never get the Nuke power plants shut down. But building enough deliverable bombs to cause real planetary horror from such plants would take a lot of time and a lot of effort. Chances are that cooler -or wiser- heads may intervene in any such plans.
But the weapons ready to go are another story.
One submarine could take out a whole region of the globe and trigger a firestorm response.
We need these things gone NOW.
-matti.
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» RE: Its going to get nasty...sayeth a doomsman
Posted by: greenPuker
» Historical fact
Posted by: QuestionAuthority
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dobermanmacleod on Feb 19, 2009 12:44 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article21955.htm
"We underestimated the risks ... we underestimated the damage associated with temperature increases ... and we underestimated the probabilities of temperature increases." -- Sir Nicholas Stern, author of "The Stern Report," April 17, 2008
"Few seem to realise that the present IPCC models predict almost unanimously that by 2040 the average summer in Europe will be as hot as the summer of 2003 when over 30,000 died from heat. By then we may cool ourselves with air conditioning and learn to live in a climate no worse than that of Baghdad now. But without extensive irrigation the plants will die and both farming and natural ecosystems will be replaced by scrub and desert. What will there be to eat? The same dire changes will affect the rest of the world and I can envisage Americans migrating into Canada and the Chinese into Siberia but there may be little food for any of them." --Dr James Lovelock's lecture to the Royal Society, 29 Oct. '07
There is a cheap and simple method of cooling down the Earth immediately: just add a little sun dimming aerosol to the upper atmosphere:
"The alternative (to geoengineering) is the acceptance of a massive natural cull of humanity and a return to an Earth that freely regulates itself but in the hot state." --Dr James Lovelock, August 2008
Brad Arnold
Saint Louis Park, Minnesota, USA
DobermanTMacLeod@aol.com
http://www.myspace.com/dobermanmacleod
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» Given the choice
Posted by: Battle4Seattle
» RE: Future routine failure of non-irrigated crops due to record high summer temperatures
Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: Methane is a green house gas too GreenPuke
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» Cows won't help
Posted by: Earl E
» RE: Future routine failure of non-irrigated crops due to record high summer temperatures
Posted by: thelorax
» RE: Future routine failure of non-irrigated crops due to record high summer temperatures
Posted by: hopeforthefuture
» RE: Future routine failure of non-irrigated crops due to record high summer temperatures
Posted by: hopeforthefuture
Comments are closed-
Posted by: -matti on Feb 19, 2009 1:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If so, could that imply it could also be self-correcting?!?
If there's anything to "Global Cooling" (meaning the particulates-in-air-blocking-sunlight-theory), then giant firestorms would be one way to get it done.
That would mean that Warming begets Drought, Drought begets Fires, Fires begets Cooling.
Just as its possible Warming begets Ice Melt, Ice Melt begets Stalled Currents, Stalled Currents begets Cooling.
I'm starting to think that hot, hot, hot, is gonna bring on cold, cold, cold (and not for the first time either).
And -more weirdly- I'm starting to wonder:
If the Biosphere is self-organizing/correcting, what sort of monkey wrench have We the Human Beings thrown into the works (by taming Fire for a start)?
Or did we do it a favor?
Consider the more complex scenario: Warming->Ice Melt->Methane Release->Mega Warming->Mega Ice Melt->???
And then consider the following questions, only three of which we can currently "answer"*:
What would a self-organizing system be organizing too?
What is "equilibrium" on this 4 billion year-old Living Earth?
Why does it even have Ice Caps?*
When did they form and why?*
And, does it "want" them?
When did all the carbon we are releasing (and the methane we may release) get trapped and why?*
What difference will its release make?
Frikkin' crazy talk. That's enough for me thanks.
-matti.
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» Just don't be scared of your thoughts,
Posted by: Battle4Seattle
» RE: Drought, Firestorms, and "Global Cooling".
Posted by: Earl E
» Yes, change is a normal and natural thing...
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Rolomax on Feb 19, 2009 1:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People don't want to hear just problems. They want even more to hear about the possible solutions.
Think of it like a job. Your boss doesn't want a problem. He/She wants a good solution to the problem you bring.
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» RE: Articles with headings like this..
Posted by: astralman
» RE: Articles with headings like this..
Posted by: Rolomax
» A Key Step Toward Solving a Problem is
Posted by: Jim Shaw
» RE: Articles with headings like this..
Posted by: DaBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: edgar1 on Feb 19, 2009 1:26 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Universe has been in a state of flux for 13 billion years. Change is Normal. Copernicus would be appalled by the flat earth mentality of the climate changehysteria lobby. Maybe not. Even in the sixteenth century, big bucks were to be had from royal (now federal) grants. All you had to do was to tell the dumb ruling class (today Obama and Carol Browner) what they want to hear. Conventional Wisdom is a plague we will have until our inevitable and welcome end.
Bye bye.
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» Comment is a little shallow
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Comment is a little shallow
Posted by: jakelivesay
» RE: Comment is a little shallow [I thought HeroesAll was being very generous!
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: enough is enough?
Posted by: gazooks
» the natural variablilty of weather
Posted by: frantic1971
» "Sate of Fear" is fiction, sparky.
Posted by: sausage
» RE: the natural variablilty of weather
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: the natural variablilty of weather... no feeding the trolls
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: the natural variablilty of weather... no feeding the trolls
Posted by: Squarehead
» no evidence?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: enough is enough
Posted by: lewb
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 19, 2009 3:57 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Not even close
Posted by: laoma
» RE: Not even close, and still not
Posted by: aonghus36
» A God is..
Posted by: Earl E
» RE: Not even close, and still not
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Not even close. Talking to Fairies
Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: Not even close. Talking to Fairies
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Not even close. Talking to Fairies
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» father fixation
Posted by: edgar1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Battle4Seattle on Feb 19, 2009 4:00 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You said: "In fact, experts are suggesting that, as the Washington Post reported recently, "The pace of global warming is likely to be much faster than recent predictions, because industrial greenhouse gas emissions have increased more quickly than expected and higher temperatures are triggering self-reinforcing feedback mechanisms in global ecosystems.""
The scientific experts were wrong. Climate change is happening much faster than all their models predicted. Similarly, the economists never predicted the economic collapse. Why? Can science & social science explain this completely can they?
No. There are limits to science and definitely to the social sciences, e.g. economics. We live on an Earth that's (who's) billions of years old. Who/what created it? Did it creat itself?
Maybe Matti's right. Someone/something, maybe the Earth itself, actually gives a damn about ITS polluted waters, ITS melting icecaps, the mass murder (extinction) of ITS species, etc.
I'm ready for that kind of justice.
Are you?
This is the place journalists fear to tread.
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» RE: I know this is unpopular with most liberals, but do you believe in G*d yet?
Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: I know this is unpopular with most liberals, but do you believe in G*d yet?
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE:I don't care which side of the political fence you're on...
Posted by: sausage
» RE: I don't care which side of the political fence you're on...
Posted by: astralman
» And I'm sure you count yourself as one of the survivors
Posted by: sausage
» RE: And I'm sure you count yourself as one of the survivors
Posted by: Squarehead
» ALL scientists believe in God?
Posted by: jackyD
» RE: God is dead.
Posted by: laoma
» RE: God is dead.
Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: God is dead. [You must be one bad-ass guy! (Silver bullets?
Posted by: Squarehead
» Changing the subject
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Changing the subject.Tch, tch.
Posted by: greenPuker
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dipconsult on Feb 19, 2009 4:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We at JP Diplomatic Consultancy (www.dipconsult.eu) wwere woken up to potential environmentat disaster in just a few years by Sir C. Tickell - another, but far more distinguished, British diplomat. He coverted Prime Minister Mrs Thatcher all those years ago to potential environmental catastrophe.
When G W Bush was standing for a second term back in 2003/4 we predicted that 8 years of Bush would mean a critical 8 years lost doing nothing about the planet. And that would be what future generations would most bitterly condemn him for.
8 years of paralysis over by far the most important challenge mankind has ever faced.
There has to be the fear that it is now too late. Even the public is only just beginning to wake up to the cataclysm perhaps only a handful of years away.
Can the web somehow do for the planet what it did for Obama and get us worldwide to force out blinkered politicians to forget their petty nationalist squabbles and act together to try at this eleventh hour to shift the world into survival mode?
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» RE: dipconsult
Posted by: daniel1982
» Shift the world into survival mode?
Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: Shift the world into survival mode?
Posted by: Squarehead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: daniel1982 on Feb 19, 2009 5:39 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: bcainw on Feb 19, 2009 5:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it not logical to conclude that allowing 2 million additional foreign immigrants and another 2 million Illegal Aliens into the country at this time is both bad for the environment and the American Working Class?
Could it be that Obama has a different agenda than most Americans think? Could it be that the real plan is to displace older American Workers with cheaper/younger foreign workers?
Just on health insurance alone the corporate elite could be saving $5,000/year on health insurance disparities alone.
Time for a Peaceful 2nd American Revolution?
NEW AGENDA FOR AMERICA: Preliminary Planks
==========================================
[Video: http://www.newagecitizen.com/NAA.htm]
(1) Universal Health Care for All American Citizens
(2) A 20-year moratorium on all immigration into the United States
(3) Legal Marijuana for all Adults and Medical Patients
(4) An immediate reversal to the Offshoring and Inshoring of American Jobs
(5) A strict enforcement on issues of Separation of Church and State
(6) An immediate move from so-called Free Trade Agreements to Bilateral Trade agreements
(7) A major R&D project to bring energy independence to the United States and the World through recycling, reuse, ending hyper-consumerism and investing in the development of sustainable energy sources (e.g., solar, photovoltaic, wind, geothermal)
(8) No further ownership of US Assets (businesses, homes, ports, stock exchanges) by foreign governments or individuals!
(9) Replace the Federal Reserve with a People's Reserve which allows public oversight
(10) Absolute support for Net Neutrality
==========================================
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» RE: Give it a break.
Posted by: sausage
» all you've got...
Posted by: frantic1971
» RE: all you've got...
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: So Why Won't Obama Stop Legal/Illegal Immigration? [Try Wising the Fuck Up,
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: So Why Won't Obama Stop Legal/Illegal Immigration?
Posted by: lewb
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sausage on Feb 19, 2009 5:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It seems to me that one of the predictors of a happy versus an unhappy outcome has to do with the role of the elite or the decision-makers or the politicians or the rich people within the society.
"If the society is structured so that the decision-makers themselves suffer from the consequences of their decisions, then they're motivated to make decisions that are good for the whole society, whereas if the decision-makers can make decisions that insulate themselves from the rest of society, then they're likely to make decisions that are bad for the rest of society."
PBS, The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, February 13, 2009
To date, our elites continue to insulate and isolate themselves from the reality the rest of us deal with on a daily basis.
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» The "Divine Right of Kings"
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: The elites who got us onto this need to suffer more
Posted by: Squarehead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: frantic1971 on Feb 19, 2009 6:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only thing normal about the weather is its variability. Weather is inherently unpredictable!
If it were suddenly perfect rainfall and perfect temperatures everywhere on the globe, would the climate alarmists be satisfied?
Global warming is the biggest hoax that has been perpretated in years. Years from now, social historians will lood back and scratch their heads in wonder..."what WERE they thinking?"
I strongly recommend the late Michael Crichton's book "State of Fear".
"Global Warming" has been good for the grant seekers and bloviating authors like Mr. Tom to make a buck.
And as for the assertion that cow farts are going to bring the end of the world....
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» RE: Hey, spammer, "State of Fear" is fiction
Posted by: sausage
» so is global warming
Posted by: frantic1971
» Books are fun
Posted by: Earl E
» RE: oh! PUH--LEASE!
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: oh! PUH--LEASE!
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: oh! PUH--LEASE!
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: oh! PUH--LEASE! [True conservatives are just that.
Posted by: Squarehead
» this is why we are doomed
Posted by: inverse_agonist
Comments are closed-
Posted by: patrick wey on Feb 19, 2009 6:36 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have created a FIRE technology on a WATER planet. There are two movements to ENERGY, one based on fire vortexing outwards, heats up, dissipates, etc, the other as water, is an inward vortex, that condenses, increases it's energy, makes oxygen passive and a host of many other LIFE giving qualities. Are we really going to wait until it is so bad that we can't even think straight. Dementia is our number one disease, also concluded by Schauberger. Check him out, checkout waternature.com. If i had the money i would be documenting and presenting this to the world. Gore didn't have a clue either of the true problem. There is a handful of people working on IMPLOSIVE technologies, but very few understand the basic principles that have become muddled with our infatuation with Gravity and Explosions with out the balance of its opposite, levity, implosion, zero point energy......silence; ask a tree!
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» RE: The Answer [Very Groovy, patrick,
Posted by: Squarehead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rock on Feb 19, 2009 6:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Finally someone addressing the real problem..
Posted by: metallarissa
» Getting rid of organised religion will take millenia!
Posted by: Cathyc
» I think this is a problem that will solve itself
Posted by: Tom Tele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Feb 19, 2009 7:29 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Crazy H on Feb 19, 2009 9:40 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Desalination
Posted by: inverse_agonist
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Mimi on Feb 19, 2009 8:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your article, and the comments so far, speak to
"the politics of impossibility" versus "the politics of optimism," terms coined by worldchanging founder, Alex Steffen.
The Politics of Impossibility connects the dots and concludes that there is nothing we can do. People connect different dots, from Armageddon to Gaia to "just natural cycles" to "humans destroying the planet," but whatever the ideological stance, the conclusion is the same: there is nothing we can do. Our ecological situation is beyond our powers to heal, fix, change, or even understand. = Impossible, however you slice it.
The Politics of Optimism connects the dots, too, and knows -- often better than the "Impossibilists" do --how bad it is. The optimists eyes are wide open; they/we are not ignorant or naive; we are informed. But rather than coming to a conclusion and giving up, the Optimists, eyes wide open, make a different choice: We choose to believe that human beings are creative, resourceful, inventive, ingenious, and that if we can invent a civilization that is destroying us and the planet, we can invent the opposite, a way of living on the planet with each other in which planet and people mutually thrive.
Neither view is inherently right or wrong. We do not know how the future will, in fact, go; we cannot. We are living in the present. We just make a choice -- a political choice -- for Impossibility or Optimism that human creativity can save creation to save ourselves.
We may indeed be the ones we have been waiting for.
We are also all we have.
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» you are right but.....
Posted by: Tom Tele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: alturn on Feb 19, 2009 8:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no difference between Jesus saying "whatsoever you do for the least of my brothers, that you do unto me", the Buddhist concept of harmlessness and the scientific approach of sustainable development. Sustainable development is the development of methods of documenting the effects of our actions on other living things. Or, the discipline of being aware of karma, bringing together as Mr. Englehardt began disparate events and finding correlation and cause, and therefore proving the tangible value of harmlessness.
The easiest first step for America is to stop bombing other countries and instead lead in efforts to stabilize populations. War destabilizes nature elementals and adds to the problems of pollution and planetary deforestation. Then take leadership to ensure everyone is fed.
One healthy step forward has been taken with the current de-glamorization of corporate heads. Many make their money by sheer exploitation of the resources of the world, which in reality belong to (though better put would be are under the custodianship / care) of all people.
Our currently glorified pirate desires for rape, robbing, exploitation, and pillaging are of the old. Caring for all life on, and also the planet, is the only way forward for everyone, be it those of a scientific or religious inclination. May more space be devoted to this path of discussion on this site.
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Posted by: Earl E on Feb 19, 2009 8:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have only been researching on Google since the mid-1990s, so I am a long way from getting my PhD.
To answer your burning question:
Google University students are planting gardens in their backyards, digging ponds, collecting seeds, building greenhouses, planting orchards wherever a square foot of space can support these activities. Rooftops, side yards, inner courtyards, lean-to and stand alone with rainwater harvesting and gray water marshes.
Google students reject print media, work towards off-grid self energizing living with nearly all of their waste being either recycled or re-used.
My daughters plastic turtle sand-box became a pond last year, we had a bull frog move in all of its own accord, and I supplied the mosquito fish to eat the larvae. This year it will become an herb garden.
Those that know what is coming, and those that can do something, are doing it all around the world.
This year I added a large pond, 8 feet deep, 100 by 50 feet(nearly all my lower backyard) and will be stocking it with bass and bluegill.
Thanks for the story, you have been nominated to Chair the Worldwide Drought Dot Connectors for Sustainable Living.
I pasted a link to your story on my facebook status. Wish us luck.
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» RE: Google University Students Unite
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: Google University Students Unite
Posted by: djnoll
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Feb 19, 2009 9:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You're SO wrong, willymack...
Posted by: Cathyc
» You're SO wrong, willymack... Check out what the survivors of the Hudson River plane crash did...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Wha' hoppen?
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Wha' hoppen?
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sweetlilwookims on Feb 19, 2009 9:12 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I beliebe GODS own words
Posted by: Strawman
» I'bh beliebe Godbh's ownbh wordbhs toobh
Posted by: mtnprivy
» RE: I'bh beliebe Godbh's ownbh wordbhs toobh
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: I'bh beliebe Godbh's ownbh wordbhs toobh
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Feb 19, 2009 11:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now the Pentagon tells Bush: climate change will destroy us (Feb 2004)
A secret report, suppressed by US defence chiefs and obtained by The Observer, warns that major European cities will be sunk beneath rising seas as Britain is plunged into a 'Siberian' climate by 2020. Nuclear conflict, mega-droughts, famine and widespread rioting will erupt across the world...
'You've got a President who says global warming is a hoax, and across the Potomac river you've got a Pentagon preparing for climate wars. It's pretty scary when Bush starts to ignore his own government on this issue,' said Rob Gueterbock of Greenpeace.
Some updated points: what Britain & Europe faces is extreme weather variability, as do many mid-latitude regions. Moist wet air over the oceans mixing with warm dry air over continents leads to more extreme weather. Thus, flooding and heavy snowfalls for part of the year followed by summer heat waves and loss of ice at elevation will be the normal situation. The loss of ice means summer droughts are worse than ever - life-giving meltwater streams will vanish in the Andes, in the Himalayas, and in Kilimanjaro in Africa. All continental interiors will dry relative to today.
This means you need a huge climate adaptation program aimed at using less water to grow crops, elimination of wasteful processes (factory farming, etc.), conservation of crop diversity, use of renewable energy on farms, forest and wetland restoration projects, construction of sea walls - talk about a huge jobs program.
Note that under these circumstances (i.e. agricultural losses), biofuels can only be envisaged as a means for farmers to convert perishable crops into a stable, storable commodity for future sale. There are exceptions, such as the use of biofuel crops to reclaim polluted and damaged soils - but with the water allocations, meat and biofuel production are sure to stay low - yes, meat production sucks up tons of water.
And, the elimination of fossil fuel combustion.
Yes, that's the one that the politicians and bureaucrats just can't seem to grasp - even though wind and solar also creates far more domestic jobs than tar oil projects do.
Feb. 18 (Bloomberg) Oil extracted from tar sands in Canada can be made a clean energy source, and the U.S. will work with its northern neighbor to develop the technology, President Barack Obama said.
Yes, that's hope and change that we can believe in... it's about faith, not reason. Faith-healing. Yes - Wall Street is a firm believer in the placebo effect - the patient needs confidence above all else - food, medicine, shelter, warmth - those come last.
Well, maybe that's too cynical - let's wait and see what Obama actually does in private with the Canadian PM, right?
U.S. and Canadian conservationists have called on Obama to reject any bid to exempt the oil from proposed climate-protection rules when he visits Canada Prime Minister Stephen Harper this week in Ottawa, his first meeting with a head of government.
No word yet...
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Posted by: djuhlinger on Feb 19, 2009 12:01 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The Perfect Storm
Posted by: Cathyc
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» Good points. DON'T CLINK ON THAT "ISP" link! He's a trolling thief!
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Good points. DON'T CLINK ON THAT "ISP" link! He's a trolling thief!
Posted by: Squarehead
» I would like to see that troll EXTERMINATED ...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: I would like to see that troll EXTERMINATED ...
Posted by: Squarehead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pfm on Feb 19, 2009 1:01 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By Tom Engelhardt ... I find I want to ask not to be a cynic, but rather how can any reasonable conclusion be achieved in our current environment where we permit nothing more than "shell games" to guide our discussion.
Money and power currently flow to those advocating at the top of their voice that "global warming" is here and we need to be afraid. I do not claim expertise but I feel I am free to ask, why is there not a forum where those advocating both side of this global warming issues have all the issues set out side by side defended logically without hysterics, name calling or finger pointing...?
I do not claim to have the answer, though I expect what we will find is there is truth to both positions.
I must admit a far more reaching question relates to - water - namely can America support, advocate and defend the proposition ... everyone has the right to clean & accessible water, adequate for the health & well being of the individual & family, and no one shall be deprived of such access or quality of water due to individual economic circumstances ... Article # 31 - United Nations...?
It seems to me the issues associated with global warming change significantly when viewed through this lens.
But maybe, just maybe we truly do not want to resolve the global warming debate..?
Respectfully,
BLOG NAME ... AUTHENTICALLY WIRED
BLOG SITE ADDRESS ... http://waterman99.wordpress.com/2009
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Posted by: what on Feb 19, 2009 2:59 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will the Earth's climate change? Absolutely!
Are humans the cause? Partially, we are enhancing or agitating very sensitive systems.
Has life adapted to previous global climate fluctuations? Yes
What is different about this era of climate change? Humans and our activities
Our activities of habitat isolation and destruction is probably the single most important thing we are doing to reduce ecological diversity and sustainability.
Why? Its simple. When we build fences, roads, cities, farms, change the chemistry of the air we breath, dump countless tonnes of crap into the rivers and oceans, lay waist to vast areas of very sensitive habitat on a global scale, and this is just for starters - when the climate does change, and it will, all life forms will need to migrate to more suitable habitats in order to survive. These habitats will either not be available or already be isolated and, at the very least, unsuitable for migrating animal life to establish itself.
In our divide and conquer world, we have effectively shut down the ability for large groups of wild life, including ourselves, to migrate in the event of climate change.
Humanity can not easily migrate because of political borders. Animals can not easily migrate because of either a) roads, fences, cities, etc b) no viable remaining habitat in other locations or c) we simply kill them because they invade our place of residence.
The temperatures of the Earth will always fluctuate. But humans, whether or not we can admit to this ourselves, do not like change. So we have built our entire existence on this "no change" principle. When things like the climate do start to change, what do we do? We resist that change with our very soul to preserve what we've built on the previous era's model.
Humanity has lived in a relatively pleasant climate model for the past 10-11 thousand years. The model is now changing due to natural fluctuations and human activity (as mentioned above).
Unless everyone performs a major cranial enema and begins to realize just how much ecological damage we are doing, the outcome isn't going to be pretty.
How many coral reefs need to perish? How many species of animal need to go extinct? How hot will it have to get for everyone to wake up? In my opinion, we're already past a point of no-return. Others will ague my opinion, which is fine, but arguing won't solve nothing.
The crux of all this revolves around greed and energy. Humanity's current energy production model is severely outdated and is essentially 130 years old, formulated around 1880.
For more on this, please refer to this -> Tom Bearden Interview. He was a Lt. Col for the Department of Defense and Theoretical Physicist. He goes into depth on energy and the production thereof.
The interview consist of 8x 10 min clips. Many of you who will watch these clips may have a difficult time following the interview due to its high technical nature. The last 4 clips are less technical and lean more to the application of energy technologies.
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» "Humans do not like change" ?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: "Humans do not like change" ?
Posted by: what
» RE: divide and conquer
Posted by: Tom Tele
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Posted by: AJR Journal on Feb 19, 2009 8:21 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Environmental collapse? Don't make me laugh.
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Got any facts, logical reasoning, or scientific findings...
Posted by: Quist
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Posted by: macdon1 on Feb 20, 2009 3:36 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we have many many homeless here in Sacramento CA, and a lot of them are old and sick. Within walking distance of our apartment in midtown Sacramento, there are 1200 people living in encampments along the river. This winter 6 of them died of disease and exposure. A few days ago one man became so despondent he threw himself in front of a train and ended his misery. We don't have a lot ourselves but we help however we can with a ride here or there, warm clothes and blankets and food. Sometimes just a little respect and attention helps someone. Most of us are just a paycheck or a bad illness away from the street and getting more so every day. Yes we need to work on preserving our environment but meanwhile the homeless are sick, hungry and without basic shelter.
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» RE: ...but you ultimately need a healthy environment to feed, house and clothe the homeless.
Posted by: Quist
» RE: ...but you ultimately need a healthy environment to feed, house and clothe the homeless.
Posted by: djnoll
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Posted by: Tom Tele on Feb 24, 2009 9:49 AM
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Posted by: hopeforthefuture on Feb 26, 2009 7:21 PM
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Look up the recent National Geographic article regarding terra preta. It is the portuguese name for "dark earth" and it consists of probably the world's most fertile soils.
The Amazon basin has one of the world's poorest soils beacuse the extremely high rainfall in the region washes the nutrients in soils to the subsoil levels where the roots of plants can't reach. The vast majority of the nutrients in the Amazon basin are locked up in the biomass of the forest and this is why the slash and burn farming techniques are so harmful and leave behind just desertic land. It is also why biologists call the Amazon "The False Paradise".
It turns out that a soil scientist in the 1960's went inhto the Amazon and discovered cetain places with an anomalous extremely fertile and dark earth not found in the vast majority of the Amazon. Investigating further he discovered that this immensely fertile soil was not natural but rather was manmade by a certain tribe of indians living in the region. These indians were wiped out by the diseases brought to the Americas by the Europeans and so the secret if how they made these soils was lost with them. But whatever the indians did it must be something really simple since they , of course , had no science knowledge to speak of , had no idea what atoms were or any concept of chemistry. If we can rediscover what they did it could be the turning point for the world environment. Stabilizing world population (ie no more population growth) would still be indispensable for a sustainable future but this would buy the world time to get its act together and start taking care of the world rather than racing to see who can destroy most of it first until nothing is left. We could use this hyper fertile soil to take barren lands and make them capable of producing massive quantities of food. This soil also contains somewhere between 5 to 10 times more carbon than regular soil and so would represent a massive carbon sink that would offset a great deal of the carbon we have added to the atmosphere by the burning of fossil fuels. Just think of massive terra preta factories working night and day in northern Canada and in Siberia taking the melting permafrost plant matter and turning it into terra preta before it can decompose and add truly gigantic amounts of carbon to an already overloaded atmosphere. We would be doing two things at once : locking up all that permafrost in stable terra preta form and also producing mega quantities of fertile soil for the world.
Yet another benefit would be the eradication of oceanic "dead zones" that occur as artificial fertilizers are washed off by the rain and end up in rivers that wash these nutrients into the ocean where they cause massive algae blooms that consume all the oxygen and the deoxygenated water kills off fishes and other marine life (like in the Gulf of Mexico due to the runoff of the Mississippi River). Terra preta , for some still unknown reason, seems able to hold on to any nutrients in it even when subjected to massive amounts of rainfall (ie like in the Amazon basin) even centuries after the indians died off (and therefore with no one doing anything to maintain those soils , they actually maintain themselves once they are established).
The rest of the post is below since Alternet says it is too long.
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Posted by: hopeforthefuture on Feb 26, 2009 7:24 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without any doubt this should be one of the world's first research priorities along with the sustainable farming techniques and plant strains being developed by Wes Jackson at the Land Institute in Kansas.
If we can just get our act together, stop population growth and create an economic system which does not require economic growth for its existence human beings can become a force for good in the world.
Pessimism helps no one. The world is in a terrible state but I choose to think it can still be salvaged and perhaps even turned into a worlwide garden. An earthly Eden.
I look at tomorrow and still see
HOPEFORTHEFUTURE
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Posted by: -matti on Feb 19, 2009 12:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its time to drop efficiency and take up resiliency.
Its Storm time now.
I feel more strongly than ever that we need to decommission all nuclear weapons ASAP. Or at least the vast majority. I read that Obama is looking to reduce the stockpiles to 1,000 each for U.S. and Russia. Groovy, BUT I believe that is still enough to bring about "nuclear winter" EACH.
If things get as bad, as soon, as now looks possible we need as few nukes around as we can get. War and conflict and famine and death will be bad enough without "total eradication of advanced life" weapons on hair-trigger alert.
I know we'll likely never get the Nuke power plants shut down. But building enough deliverable bombs to cause real planetary horror from such plants would take a lot of time and a lot of effort. Chances are that cooler -or wiser- heads may intervene in any such plans.
But the weapons ready to go are another story.
One submarine could take out a whole region of the globe and trigger a firestorm response.
We need these things gone NOW.
-matti.
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» RE: Its going to get nasty...sayeth a doomsman
Posted by: greenPuker
» Historical fact
Posted by: QuestionAuthority
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Posted by: dobermanmacleod on Feb 19, 2009 12:44 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article21955.htm
"We underestimated the risks ... we underestimated the damage associated with temperature increases ... and we underestimated the probabilities of temperature increases." -- Sir Nicholas Stern, author of "The Stern Report," April 17, 2008
"Few seem to realise that the present IPCC models predict almost unanimously that by 2040 the average summer in Europe will be as hot as the summer of 2003 when over 30,000 died from heat. By then we may cool ourselves with air conditioning and learn to live in a climate no worse than that of Baghdad now. But without extensive irrigation the plants will die and both farming and natural ecosystems will be replaced by scrub and desert. What will there be to eat? The same dire changes will affect the rest of the world and I can envisage Americans migrating into Canada and the Chinese into Siberia but there may be little food for any of them." --Dr James Lovelock's lecture to the Royal Society, 29 Oct. '07
There is a cheap and simple method of cooling down the Earth immediately: just add a little sun dimming aerosol to the upper atmosphere:
"The alternative (to geoengineering) is the acceptance of a massive natural cull of humanity and a return to an Earth that freely regulates itself but in the hot state." --Dr James Lovelock, August 2008
Brad Arnold
Saint Louis Park, Minnesota, USA
DobermanTMacLeod@aol.com
http://www.myspace.com/dobermanmacleod
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» Given the choice
Posted by: Battle4Seattle
» RE: Future routine failure of non-irrigated crops due to record high summer temperatures
Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: Methane is a green house gas too GreenPuke
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» Cows won't help
Posted by: Earl E
» RE: Future routine failure of non-irrigated crops due to record high summer temperatures
Posted by: thelorax
» RE: Future routine failure of non-irrigated crops due to record high summer temperatures
Posted by: hopeforthefuture
» RE: Future routine failure of non-irrigated crops due to record high summer temperatures
Posted by: hopeforthefuture
Comments are closed-
Posted by: -matti on Feb 19, 2009 1:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If so, could that imply it could also be self-correcting?!?
If there's anything to "Global Cooling" (meaning the particulates-in-air-blocking-sunlight-theory), then giant firestorms would be one way to get it done.
That would mean that Warming begets Drought, Drought begets Fires, Fires begets Cooling.
Just as its possible Warming begets Ice Melt, Ice Melt begets Stalled Currents, Stalled Currents begets Cooling.
I'm starting to think that hot, hot, hot, is gonna bring on cold, cold, cold (and not for the first time either).
And -more weirdly- I'm starting to wonder:
If the Biosphere is self-organizing/correcting, what sort of monkey wrench have We the Human Beings thrown into the works (by taming Fire for a start)?
Or did we do it a favor?
Consider the more complex scenario: Warming->Ice Melt->Methane Release->Mega Warming->Mega Ice Melt->???
And then consider the following questions, only three of which we can currently "answer"*:
What would a self-organizing system be organizing too?
What is "equilibrium" on this 4 billion year-old Living Earth?
Why does it even have Ice Caps?*
When did they form and why?*
And, does it "want" them?
When did all the carbon we are releasing (and the methane we may release) get trapped and why?*
What difference will its release make?
Frikkin' crazy talk. That's enough for me thanks.
-matti.
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» Just don't be scared of your thoughts,
Posted by: Battle4Seattle
» RE: Drought, Firestorms, and "Global Cooling".
Posted by: Earl E
» Yes, change is a normal and natural thing...
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Rolomax on Feb 19, 2009 1:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People don't want to hear just problems. They want even more to hear about the possible solutions.
Think of it like a job. Your boss doesn't want a problem. He/She wants a good solution to the problem you bring.
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» RE: Articles with headings like this..
Posted by: astralman
» RE: Articles with headings like this..
Posted by: Rolomax
» A Key Step Toward Solving a Problem is
Posted by: Jim Shaw
» RE: Articles with headings like this..
Posted by: DaBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: edgar1 on Feb 19, 2009 1:26 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Universe has been in a state of flux for 13 billion years. Change is Normal. Copernicus would be appalled by the flat earth mentality of the climate changehysteria lobby. Maybe not. Even in the sixteenth century, big bucks were to be had from royal (now federal) grants. All you had to do was to tell the dumb ruling class (today Obama and Carol Browner) what they want to hear. Conventional Wisdom is a plague we will have until our inevitable and welcome end.
Bye bye.
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» Comment is a little shallow
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Comment is a little shallow
Posted by: jakelivesay
» RE: Comment is a little shallow [I thought HeroesAll was being very generous!
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: enough is enough?
Posted by: gazooks
» the natural variablilty of weather
Posted by: frantic1971
» "Sate of Fear" is fiction, sparky.
Posted by: sausage
» RE: the natural variablilty of weather
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: the natural variablilty of weather... no feeding the trolls
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: the natural variablilty of weather... no feeding the trolls
Posted by: Squarehead
» no evidence?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: enough is enough
Posted by: lewb
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 19, 2009 3:57 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Not even close
Posted by: laoma
» RE: Not even close, and still not
Posted by: aonghus36
» A God is..
Posted by: Earl E
» RE: Not even close, and still not
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Not even close. Talking to Fairies
Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: Not even close. Talking to Fairies
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Not even close. Talking to Fairies
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» father fixation
Posted by: edgar1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Battle4Seattle on Feb 19, 2009 4:00 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You said: "In fact, experts are suggesting that, as the Washington Post reported recently, "The pace of global warming is likely to be much faster than recent predictions, because industrial greenhouse gas emissions have increased more quickly than expected and higher temperatures are triggering self-reinforcing feedback mechanisms in global ecosystems.""
The scientific experts were wrong. Climate change is happening much faster than all their models predicted. Similarly, the economists never predicted the economic collapse. Why? Can science & social science explain this completely can they?
No. There are limits to science and definitely to the social sciences, e.g. economics. We live on an Earth that's (who's) billions of years old. Who/what created it? Did it creat itself?
Maybe Matti's right. Someone/something, maybe the Earth itself, actually gives a damn about ITS polluted waters, ITS melting icecaps, the mass murder (extinction) of ITS species, etc.
I'm ready for that kind of justice.
Are you?
This is the place journalists fear to tread.
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» RE: I know this is unpopular with most liberals, but do you believe in G*d yet?
Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: I know this is unpopular with most liberals, but do you believe in G*d yet?
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE:I don't care which side of the political fence you're on...
Posted by: sausage
» RE: I don't care which side of the political fence you're on...
Posted by: astralman
» And I'm sure you count yourself as one of the survivors
Posted by: sausage
» RE: And I'm sure you count yourself as one of the survivors
Posted by: Squarehead
» ALL scientists believe in God?
Posted by: jackyD
» RE: God is dead.
Posted by: laoma
» RE: God is dead.
Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: God is dead. [You must be one bad-ass guy! (Silver bullets?
Posted by: Squarehead
» Changing the subject
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Changing the subject.Tch, tch.
Posted by: greenPuker
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dipconsult on Feb 19, 2009 4:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We at JP Diplomatic Consultancy (www.dipconsult.eu) wwere woken up to potential environmentat disaster in just a few years by Sir C. Tickell - another, but far more distinguished, British diplomat. He coverted Prime Minister Mrs Thatcher all those years ago to potential environmental catastrophe.
When G W Bush was standing for a second term back in 2003/4 we predicted that 8 years of Bush would mean a critical 8 years lost doing nothing about the planet. And that would be what future generations would most bitterly condemn him for.
8 years of paralysis over by far the most important challenge mankind has ever faced.
There has to be the fear that it is now too late. Even the public is only just beginning to wake up to the cataclysm perhaps only a handful of years away.
Can the web somehow do for the planet what it did for Obama and get us worldwide to force out blinkered politicians to forget their petty nationalist squabbles and act together to try at this eleventh hour to shift the world into survival mode?
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» RE: dipconsult
Posted by: daniel1982
» Shift the world into survival mode?
Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: Shift the world into survival mode?
Posted by: Squarehead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: daniel1982 on Feb 19, 2009 5:39 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: bcainw on Feb 19, 2009 5:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it not logical to conclude that allowing 2 million additional foreign immigrants and another 2 million Illegal Aliens into the country at this time is both bad for the environment and the American Working Class?
Could it be that Obama has a different agenda than most Americans think? Could it be that the real plan is to displace older American Workers with cheaper/younger foreign workers?
Just on health insurance alone the corporate elite could be saving $5,000/year on health insurance disparities alone.
Time for a Peaceful 2nd American Revolution?
NEW AGENDA FOR AMERICA: Preliminary Planks
==========================================
[Video: http://www.newagecitizen.com/NAA.htm]
(1) Universal Health Care for All American Citizens
(2) A 20-year moratorium on all immigration into the United States
(3) Legal Marijuana for all Adults and Medical Patients
(4) An immediate reversal to the Offshoring and Inshoring of American Jobs
(5) A strict enforcement on issues of Separation of Church and State
(6) An immediate move from so-called Free Trade Agreements to Bilateral Trade agreements
(7) A major R&D project to bring energy independence to the United States and the World through recycling, reuse, ending hyper-consumerism and investing in the development of sustainable energy sources (e.g., solar, photovoltaic, wind, geothermal)
(8) No further ownership of US Assets (businesses, homes, ports, stock exchanges) by foreign governments or individuals!
(9) Replace the Federal Reserve with a People's Reserve which allows public oversight
(10) Absolute support for Net Neutrality
==========================================
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» RE: Give it a break.
Posted by: sausage
» all you've got...
Posted by: frantic1971
» RE: all you've got...
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: So Why Won't Obama Stop Legal/Illegal Immigration? [Try Wising the Fuck Up,
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: So Why Won't Obama Stop Legal/Illegal Immigration?
Posted by: lewb
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sausage on Feb 19, 2009 5:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It seems to me that one of the predictors of a happy versus an unhappy outcome has to do with the role of the elite or the decision-makers or the politicians or the rich people within the society.
"If the society is structured so that the decision-makers themselves suffer from the consequences of their decisions, then they're motivated to make decisions that are good for the whole society, whereas if the decision-makers can make decisions that insulate themselves from the rest of society, then they're likely to make decisions that are bad for the rest of society."
PBS, The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, February 13, 2009
To date, our elites continue to insulate and isolate themselves from the reality the rest of us deal with on a daily basis.
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» The "Divine Right of Kings"
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: The elites who got us onto this need to suffer more
Posted by: Squarehead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: frantic1971 on Feb 19, 2009 6:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only thing normal about the weather is its variability. Weather is inherently unpredictable!
If it were suddenly perfect rainfall and perfect temperatures everywhere on the globe, would the climate alarmists be satisfied?
Global warming is the biggest hoax that has been perpretated in years. Years from now, social historians will lood back and scratch their heads in wonder..."what WERE they thinking?"
I strongly recommend the late Michael Crichton's book "State of Fear".
"Global Warming" has been good for the grant seekers and bloviating authors like Mr. Tom to make a buck.
And as for the assertion that cow farts are going to bring the end of the world....
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» RE: Hey, spammer, "State of Fear" is fiction
Posted by: sausage
» so is global warming
Posted by: frantic1971
» Books are fun
Posted by: Earl E
» RE: oh! PUH--LEASE!
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: oh! PUH--LEASE!
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: oh! PUH--LEASE!
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: oh! PUH--LEASE! [True conservatives are just that.
Posted by: Squarehead
» this is why we are doomed
Posted by: inverse_agonist
Comments are closed-
Posted by: patrick wey on Feb 19, 2009 6:36 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have created a FIRE technology on a WATER planet. There are two movements to ENERGY, one based on fire vortexing outwards, heats up, dissipates, etc, the other as water, is an inward vortex, that condenses, increases it's energy, makes oxygen passive and a host of many other LIFE giving qualities. Are we really going to wait until it is so bad that we can't even think straight. Dementia is our number one disease, also concluded by Schauberger. Check him out, checkout waternature.com. If i had the money i would be documenting and presenting this to the world. Gore didn't have a clue either of the true problem. There is a handful of people working on IMPLOSIVE technologies, but very few understand the basic principles that have become muddled with our infatuation with Gravity and Explosions with out the balance of its opposite, levity, implosion, zero point energy......silence; ask a tree!
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» RE: The Answer [Very Groovy, patrick,
Posted by: Squarehead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rock on Feb 19, 2009 6:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Finally someone addressing the real problem..
Posted by: metallarissa
» Getting rid of organised religion will take millenia!
Posted by: Cathyc
» I think this is a problem that will solve itself
Posted by: Tom Tele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Feb 19, 2009 7:29 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Crazy H on Feb 19, 2009 9:40 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Desalination
Posted by: inverse_agonist
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Mimi on Feb 19, 2009 8:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your article, and the comments so far, speak to
"the politics of impossibility" versus "the politics of optimism," terms coined by worldchanging founder, Alex Steffen.
The Politics of Impossibility connects the dots and concludes that there is nothing we can do. People connect different dots, from Armageddon to Gaia to "just natural cycles" to "humans destroying the planet," but whatever the ideological stance, the conclusion is the same: there is nothing we can do. Our ecological situation is beyond our powers to heal, fix, change, or even understand. = Impossible, however you slice it.
The Politics of Optimism connects the dots, too, and knows -- often better than the "Impossibilists" do --how bad it is. The optimists eyes are wide open; they/we are not ignorant or naive; we are informed. But rather than coming to a conclusion and giving up, the Optimists, eyes wide open, make a different choice: We choose to believe that human beings are creative, resourceful, inventive, ingenious, and that if we can invent a civilization that is destroying us and the planet, we can invent the opposite, a way of living on the planet with each other in which planet and people mutually thrive.
Neither view is inherently right or wrong. We do not know how the future will, in fact, go; we cannot. We are living in the present. We just make a choice -- a political choice -- for Impossibility or Optimism that human creativity can save creation to save ourselves.
We may indeed be the ones we have been waiting for.
We are also all we have.
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» you are right but.....
Posted by: Tom Tele
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Posted by: alturn on Feb 19, 2009 8:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no difference between Jesus saying "whatsoever you do for the least of my brothers, that you do unto me", the Buddhist concept of harmlessness and the scientific approach of sustainable development. Sustainable development is the development of methods of documenting the effects of our actions on other living things. Or, the discipline of being aware of karma, bringing together as Mr. Englehardt began disparate events and finding correlation and cause, and therefore proving the tangible value of harmlessness.
The easiest first step for America is to stop bombing other countries and instead lead in efforts to stabilize populations. War destabilizes nature elementals and adds to the problems of pollution and planetary deforestation. Then take leadership to ensure everyone is fed.
One healthy step forward has been taken with the current de-glamorization of corporate heads. Many make their money by sheer exploitation of the resources of the world, which in reality belong to (though better put would be are under the custodianship / care) of all people.
Our currently glorified pirate desires for rape, robbing, exploitation, and pillaging are of the old. Caring for all life on, and also the planet, is the only way forward for everyone, be it those of a scientific or religious inclination. May more space be devoted to this path of discussion on this site.
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Posted by: Earl E on Feb 19, 2009 8:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have only been researching on Google since the mid-1990s, so I am a long way from getting my PhD.
To answer your burning question:
Google University students are planting gardens in their backyards, digging ponds, collecting seeds, building greenhouses, planting orchards wherever a square foot of space can support these activities. Rooftops, side yards, inner courtyards, lean-to and stand alone with rainwater harvesting and gray water marshes.
Google students reject print media, work towards off-grid self energizing living with nearly all of their waste being either recycled or re-used.
My daughters plastic turtle sand-box became a pond last year, we had a bull frog move in all of its own accord, and I supplied the mosquito fish to eat the larvae. This year it will become an herb garden.
Those that know what is coming, and those that can do something, are doing it all around the world.
This year I added a large pond, 8 feet deep, 100 by 50 feet(nearly all my lower backyard) and will be stocking it with bass and bluegill.
Thanks for the story, you have been nominated to Chair the Worldwide Drought Dot Connectors for Sustainable Living.
I pasted a link to your story on my facebook status. Wish us luck.
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» RE: Google University Students Unite
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: Google University Students Unite
Posted by: djnoll
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Posted by: willymack on Feb 19, 2009 9:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You're SO wrong, willymack...
Posted by: Cathyc
» You're SO wrong, willymack... Check out what the survivors of the Hudson River plane crash did...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Wha' hoppen?
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Wha' hoppen?
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
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Posted by: sweetlilwookims on Feb 19, 2009 9:12 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I beliebe GODS own words
Posted by: Strawman
» I'bh beliebe Godbh's ownbh wordbhs toobh
Posted by: mtnprivy
» RE: I'bh beliebe Godbh's ownbh wordbhs toobh
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: I'bh beliebe Godbh's ownbh wordbhs toobh
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
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Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Feb 19, 2009 11:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now the Pentagon tells Bush: climate change will destroy us (Feb 2004)
A secret report, suppressed by US defence chiefs and obtained by The Observer, warns that major European cities will be sunk beneath rising seas as Britain is plunged into a 'Siberian' climate by 2020. Nuclear conflict, mega-droughts, famine and widespread rioting will erupt across the world...
'You've got a President who says global warming is a hoax, and across the Potomac river you've got a Pentagon preparing for climate wars. It's pretty scary when Bush starts to ignore his own government on this issue,' said Rob Gueterbock of Greenpeace.
Some updated points: what Britain & Europe faces is extreme weather variability, as do many mid-latitude regions. Moist wet air over the oceans mixing with warm dry air over continents leads to more extreme weather. Thus, flooding and heavy snowfalls for part of the year followed by summer heat waves and loss of ice at elevation will be the normal situation. The loss of ice means summer droughts are worse than ever - life-giving meltwater streams will vanish in the Andes, in the Himalayas, and in Kilimanjaro in Africa. All continental interiors will dry relative to today.
This means you need a huge climate adaptation program aimed at using less water to grow crops, elimination of wasteful processes (factory farming, etc.), conservation of crop diversity, use of renewable energy on farms, forest and wetland restoration projects, construction of sea walls - talk about a huge jobs program.
Note that under these circumstances (i.e. agricultural losses), biofuels can only be envisaged as a means for farmers to convert perishable crops into a stable, storable commodity for future sale. There are exceptions, such as the use of biofuel crops to reclaim polluted and damaged soils - but with the water allocations, meat and biofuel production are sure to stay low - yes, meat production sucks up tons of water.
And, the elimination of fossil fuel combustion.
Yes, that's the one that the politicians and bureaucrats just can't seem to grasp - even though wind and solar also creates far more domestic jobs than tar oil projects do.
Feb. 18 (Bloomberg) Oil extracted from tar sands in Canada can be made a clean energy source, and the U.S. will work with its northern neighbor to develop the technology, President Barack Obama said.
Yes, that's hope and change that we can believe in... it's about faith, not reason. Faith-healing. Yes - Wall Street is a firm believer in the placebo effect - the patient needs confidence above all else - food, medicine, shelter, warmth - those come last.
Well, maybe that's too cynical - let's wait and see what Obama actually does in private with the Canadian PM, right?
U.S. and Canadian conservationists have called on Obama to reject any bid to exempt the oil from proposed climate-protection rules when he visits Canada Prime Minister Stephen Harper this week in Ottawa, his first meeting with a head of government.
No word yet...
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Posted by: djuhlinger on Feb 19, 2009 12:01 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The Perfect Storm
Posted by: Cathyc
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» Good points. DON'T CLINK ON THAT "ISP" link! He's a trolling thief!
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Good points. DON'T CLINK ON THAT "ISP" link! He's a trolling thief!
Posted by: Squarehead
» I would like to see that troll EXTERMINATED ...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: I would like to see that troll EXTERMINATED ...
Posted by: Squarehead
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Posted by: pfm on Feb 19, 2009 1:01 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By Tom Engelhardt ... I find I want to ask not to be a cynic, but rather how can any reasonable conclusion be achieved in our current environment where we permit nothing more than "shell games" to guide our discussion.
Money and power currently flow to those advocating at the top of their voice that "global warming" is here and we need to be afraid. I do not claim expertise but I feel I am free to ask, why is there not a forum where those advocating both side of this global warming issues have all the issues set out side by side defended logically without hysterics, name calling or finger pointing...?
I do not claim to have the answer, though I expect what we will find is there is truth to both positions.
I must admit a far more reaching question relates to - water - namely can America support, advocate and defend the proposition ... everyone has the right to clean & accessible water, adequate for the health & well being of the individual & family, and no one shall be deprived of such access or quality of water due to individual economic circumstances ... Article # 31 - United Nations...?
It seems to me the issues associated with global warming change significantly when viewed through this lens.
But maybe, just maybe we truly do not want to resolve the global warming debate..?
Respectfully,
BLOG NAME ... AUTHENTICALLY WIRED
BLOG SITE ADDRESS ... http://waterman99.wordpress.com/2009
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Posted by: what on Feb 19, 2009 2:59 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will the Earth's climate change? Absolutely!
Are humans the cause? Partially, we are enhancing or agitating very sensitive systems.
Has life adapted to previous global climate fluctuations? Yes
What is different about this era of climate change? Humans and our activities
Our activities of habitat isolation and destruction is probably the single most important thing we are doing to reduce ecological diversity and sustainability.
Why? Its simple. When we build fences, roads, cities, farms, change the chemistry of the air we breath, dump countless tonnes of crap into the rivers and oceans, lay waist to vast areas of very sensitive habitat on a global scale, and this is just for starters - when the climate does change, and it will, all life forms will need to migrate to more suitable habitats in order to survive. These habitats will either not be available or already be isolated and, at the very least, unsuitable for migrating animal life to establish itself.
In our divide and conquer world, we have effectively shut down the ability for large groups of wild life, including ourselves, to migrate in the event of climate change.
Humanity can not easily migrate because of political borders. Animals can not easily migrate because of either a) roads, fences, cities, etc b) no viable remaining habitat in other locations or c) we simply kill them because they invade our place of residence.
The temperatures of the Earth will always fluctuate. But humans, whether or not we can admit to this ourselves, do not like change. So we have built our entire existence on this "no change" principle. When things like the climate do start to change, what do we do? We resist that change with our very soul to preserve what we've built on the previous era's model.
Humanity has lived in a relatively pleasant climate model for the past 10-11 thousand years. The model is now changing due to natural fluctuations and human activity (as mentioned above).
Unless everyone performs a major cranial enema and begins to realize just how much ecological damage we are doing, the outcome isn't going to be pretty.
How many coral reefs need to perish? How many species of animal need to go extinct? How hot will it have to get for everyone to wake up? In my opinion, we're already past a point of no-return. Others will ague my opinion, which is fine, but arguing won't solve nothing.
The crux of all this revolves around greed and energy. Humanity's current energy production model is severely outdated and is essentially 130 years old, formulated around 1880.
For more on this, please refer to this -> Tom Bearden Interview. He was a Lt. Col for the Department of Defense and Theoretical Physicist. He goes into depth on energy and the production thereof.
The interview consist of 8x 10 min clips. Many of you who will watch these clips may have a difficult time following the interview due to its high technical nature. The last 4 clips are less technical and lean more to the application of energy technologies.
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» "Humans do not like change" ?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: "Humans do not like change" ?
Posted by: what
» RE: divide and conquer
Posted by: Tom Tele
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Posted by: AJR Journal on Feb 19, 2009 8:21 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Environmental collapse? Don't make me laugh.
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Got any facts, logical reasoning, or scientific findings...
Posted by: Quist
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Posted by: macdon1 on Feb 20, 2009 3:36 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we have many many homeless here in Sacramento CA, and a lot of them are old and sick. Within walking distance of our apartment in midtown Sacramento, there are 1200 people living in encampments along the river. This winter 6 of them died of disease and exposure. A few days ago one man became so despondent he threw himself in front of a train and ended his misery. We don't have a lot ourselves but we help however we can with a ride here or there, warm clothes and blankets and food. Sometimes just a little respect and attention helps someone. Most of us are just a paycheck or a bad illness away from the street and getting more so every day. Yes we need to work on preserving our environment but meanwhile the homeless are sick, hungry and without basic shelter.
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» RE: ...but you ultimately need a healthy environment to feed, house and clothe the homeless.
Posted by: Quist
» RE: ...but you ultimately need a healthy environment to feed, house and clothe the homeless.
Posted by: djnoll
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Posted by: Tom Tele on Feb 24, 2009 9:49 AM
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Posted by: hopeforthefuture on Feb 26, 2009 7:21 PM
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Look up the recent National Geographic article regarding terra preta. It is the portuguese name for "dark earth" and it consists of probably the world's most fertile soils.
The Amazon basin has one of the world's poorest soils beacuse the extremely high rainfall in the region washes the nutrients in soils to the subsoil levels where the roots of plants can't reach. The vast majority of the nutrients in the Amazon basin are locked up in the biomass of the forest and this is why the slash and burn farming techniques are so harmful and leave behind just desertic land. It is also why biologists call the Amazon "The False Paradise".
It turns out that a soil scientist in the 1960's went inhto the Amazon and discovered cetain places with an anomalous extremely fertile and dark earth not found in the vast majority of the Amazon. Investigating further he discovered that this immensely fertile soil was not natural but rather was manmade by a certain tribe of indians living in the region. These indians were wiped out by the diseases brought to the Americas by the Europeans and so the secret if how they made these soils was lost with them. But whatever the indians did it must be something really simple since they , of course , had no science knowledge to speak of , had no idea what atoms were or any concept of chemistry. If we can rediscover what they did it could be the turning point for the world environment. Stabilizing world population (ie no more population growth) would still be indispensable for a sustainable future but this would buy the world time to get its act together and start taking care of the world rather than racing to see who can destroy most of it first until nothing is left. We could use this hyper fertile soil to take barren lands and make them capable of producing massive quantities of food. This soil also contains somewhere between 5 to 10 times more carbon than regular soil and so would represent a massive carbon sink that would offset a great deal of the carbon we have added to the atmosphere by the burning of fossil fuels. Just think of massive terra preta factories working night and day in northern Canada and in Siberia taking the melting permafrost plant matter and turning it into terra preta before it can decompose and add truly gigantic amounts of carbon to an already overloaded atmosphere. We would be doing two things at once : locking up all that permafrost in stable terra preta form and also producing mega quantities of fertile soil for the world.
Yet another benefit would be the eradication of oceanic "dead zones" that occur as artificial fertilizers are washed off by the rain and end up in rivers that wash these nutrients into the ocean where they cause massive algae blooms that consume all the oxygen and the deoxygenated water kills off fishes and other marine life (like in the Gulf of Mexico due to the runoff of the Mississippi River). Terra preta , for some still unknown reason, seems able to hold on to any nutrients in it even when subjected to massive amounts of rainfall (ie like in the Amazon basin) even centuries after the indians died off (and therefore with no one doing anything to maintain those soils , they actually maintain themselves once they are established).
The rest of the post is below since Alternet says it is too long.
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Posted by: hopeforthefuture on Feb 26, 2009 7:24 PM
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Without any doubt this should be one of the world's first research priorities along with the sustainable farming techniques and plant strains being developed by Wes Jackson at the Land Institute in Kansas.
If we can just get our act together, stop population growth and create an economic system which does not require economic growth for its existence human beings can become a force for good in the world.
Pessimism helps no one. The world is in a terrible state but I choose to think it can still be salvaged and perhaps even turned into a worlwide garden. An earthly Eden.
I look at tomorrow and still see
HOPEFORTHEFUTURE
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