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Water

Will Oceans Be Our Best Source of Clean Power?

By Kari Lydersen, AlterNet. Posted October 16, 2008.


If certain challenges can be overcome, wave power could be a major clean energy source for the half of the world's population.
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The resource is clean, renewable and vast. In fact, it covers 70 percent of the planet. That would be the ocean, with endless waves and ceaseless tides that can be harnessed to create electricity with zero carbon or particulate emissions. If logistical, environmental and efficiency challenges can be overcome -- a big "if" -- this could be a major clean energy source for the half of the world's population who live within 50 miles of coasts.

So far wave and tidal power have not been tapped on a commercial scale, but a number of pilot projects are underway worldwide and so far the prospects seem relatively promising.

This summer the world's first commercial offshore wave power project was launched off the coast of Portugal. The Agucadora Wave Park consists of three 142-meter-long hinged steel tubes called Pelamis machines. As waves move along the tubes, they move up and down and hydraulic devices at the joints generate electricity. The project plans call for 25 Pelamis machines generating up to 21 megawatts of power, which would save 60,000 tons of carbon emissions per year compared to a fossil fuel plant making the same amount of energy.

Meanwhile a commercial shore-based wave energy project was also launched in Islay, Scotland. The LIMPET, or Land Installed Marine Powered Energy Transformer, is attached to the shore and uses the waves' momentum to funnel air into turbines to produce electricity. Plans are also in the works for a 40-turbine, four megawatt wave project in Scotland's Siadar Bay which could provide electricity for a fifth of Scotland's population.

Australia, England and Israel are among other countries where the government and private companies are actively pursuing wave power.

As with other renewable energy methods the US is lagging behind Europe, but there are a number of wave power projects in the works off the west coast. In September Oregon State University's Hatfield Center and the University of Washington secured a $6.25 million, five-year grant from the Department of Energy for wave energy development including an experimental project involving large energy-generating buoys about 12 miles off Newport, Ore.

"It's very much an emerging technology," said Roger Bedard, head of ocean power for the Electric Power Research Institute, the research and development arm of the utility industry. "I am not ready to say whether the US or the world should add wave power to the portfolio of energy options. What are the effects on sedimentation, fish, marine mammals, whales migrating from Alaska to Baja? First we need to do pilot testing and get hardware in the water to answer these questions."

Bedard said there are currently about 40 device developers in various stages of development. About six are doing full scale prototype testing, he said, and about 25 more have done subscale testing in the ocean. Others are still testing devices in wave tanks.

In December 2007 the Federal Energy Regulatory Committee (FERC) issued its first permit for a hydrokinetic wave energy project in the U.S., the Makah Bay Offshore Wave Pilot Project which calls for four floating buoys and an underwater transmission cable two miles off the coast of Washington state. It is being developed by the company Finavera Renewables Ocean Energy and expected to power 150 homes. But Bedard said it still needs permits from multiple government agencies, a lengthy and costly process, to proceed.

"Unfortunately in this country the regulators want to know what the environmental effects are before we put it in the water, but we need to do pilot tests in the water to know," he said. "It's a catch 22." In 2008, FERC permit applications for wave energy projects were filed by Pacific Gas & Electric in Mendocino and Humboldt County, Calif.; and by other private companies in California and Oregon. "PG&E has all the coast of California with good strong waves as their territory," said Bedard. "They're the one utility that can really capitalize in a big way in the future in wave energy."

The company Ocean Power Technologies (OPT) is developing a wave project off Reedsport, Ore. involving 10 buoys similar to the ones being tested by Oregon State, which could generate enough power for 1,500 homes. They are still seeking permits but hope to launch a pilot buoy next summer. These buoys need waves at least four feet high and can work in waves up to 22 feet high, according to the company. The motion of the waves essentially moves a piston up and down inside the buoy, which generates electricity magnetically. OPT, founded by an Australian surfer, is a publicly traded company that launched its first test buoy in New Jersey in 1997. An OPT buoy that produces 40 kilowatts is about 52 feet long and 12 feet in diameter, with about 13 feet rising above the ocean surface.

An Irish company called Wavebob with headquarters in Annapolis is also hoping to develop wave projects on the US west coast. The Pacific has much stronger waves than the Atlantic, since winds blow west to east across the globe and hence gain power all across the Pacific before hitting the coasts of California, Oregon and Washington. Wave power is also about 10 times stronger in winter than summer.

George Boehlert, director of the Hatfield Center and a professor of fisheries and wildlife at Oregon State, noted that the Pacific Northwest is conducive to wave power because it not only has steady, powerful waves but also electricity transmission infrastructure near the coast.

"There are an awful lot of places where you have very good wave energy, but you don't necessarily have a mechanism to transport it where the power is needed." he said.

"In Oregon we had a lot of industries related to timber and mills at the coast. So we have a lot of substations essentially right near the beach."

The Oregon governor's office has instituted a program to fast track wave power projects, and state officials hope wave power could help them meet a goal of getting 20 percent of the state's power from renewable sources by 2025. A government grant helped form the Oregon Wave Energy Trust, a public-private partnership to study the development of "responsible wave energy."

Wave power has been explored more than tidal power, partly because tidal power is more limited geographically. The power of the tides can generally only be harnessed in a narrow passageway between large bodies of water, for example between a bay or estuary and the open ocean. A major tidal power plant is operating in the Bay of Fundy between New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, known for having the world's largest low tide-high tide gap at up to 50 feet. But this project and other proposed tide power schemes involving dams or turbines in the Bay of Fundy have raised serious environmental concerns, including shoreline erosion, contamination and whales stuck behind the generating apparatus.

In the U.S., many tidal areas only vary by about three feet between high and low tide, meaning much less potential energy. But Bedard said places like under the Golden Gate Bridge could still be attractive for tidal power, since they are close to populations which need electricity. "San Francisco is right there, you just plug it into the city," he said. "In Puget Sound, the Admiralty Inlet is just 20 miles from downtown Seattle. Whereas in Alaska, you have a huge tidal resource, but no people and no transmission wires."

There are a number of wave power technologies being tested worldwide, including the Pelamis tubes and the buoys being used off the Pacific Northwest. Boehlert said Oregon State also has experimented with a different prototype he describes as "basically an electromagnetic system like shakeup flashlights."

"Where wave energy is today is similar to where wind was 15 or 20 years ago," said Justin Klure, former director of the Oregon Wave Energy Trust and a consultant with the company Pacific Energy Ventures. "You had four blades, five blades, vertical, horizontal, towers of all heights. Now a 100-meter tower with three blades is the technology of choice. It will be a while before we can make a determination on what technology is most efficient in extracting the linear motion of waves into electricity. It might not be one single device like wind -- there might be multiple devices that make sense."

Researchers at the University of Southampton are developing huge rubber "snakes" known as Anacondas which they hope can generate power more cheaply than most wave technologies, to the tune of six cents per kilowatt hour. The 200-meter-long, seven-meter-diameter Anacondas are rubber tubes sealed, filled with water and placed in the sea facing oncoming waves. The motion of rolling waves passing over them moves the water inside in a "bulge" toward a turbine at one end of the tube to generate electricity.

A technology is being tested off Australia which involves a piston pump attached to the sea floor moved by a float rising and falling on the waves above. Another device developed by the company Energen Wave Power involves floating pontoons and multiple "pivot arms" that capture wave energy. One of Bedard's favorites is an "artificial muscle" being developed by SRI International in Menlo Park, Calif. in partnership with the Japanese company Hyper Drive Corp which he says, "is very much like a rubber band. You stretch it, and it makes energy." He noted simple devices like this are key, since the off shore location makes maintenance difficult and costly.

"Since the ocean concentrates energy from wind into waves, it's a much higher density resource than wind or solar," he said. "That means the machine to extract it can be smaller, which means less capital. But the kicker is the deployment and maintenance cost. The ocean is a remote and hostile place. Unless developers make something highly highly reliable (that doesn't need much maintenance) it won't be economically successful."

Energy from wave projects is transmitted to the grid through undersea electrical cables, which are commonly used for various purposes including offshore wind farms that are prevalent off several European countries and in development in the U.S.

While land-based and offshore wind farms -most notably the proposed Cape Wind project in the Nantucket Sound -- have provoked significant opposition because of their effects on views, wave energy buoys would be virtually unnoticeable to people onshore.

However wave energy does raise serious environmental concerns, especially in places like the federal Olympic Coast National Marine Sanctuary, where the Makah project would be located. Oregon State is beginning to investigate whether their buoys could alter gray whale migration routes, ocean currents or sand dispersal patterns. Environmentalists also worry about the electromagnetism from undersea transmission cables. And some worry wave power operations could impede the commercial fishing and crabbing industries which are economically crucial to the Pacific Northwest.

"If there are egregious environmental effects, we should not add wave power to our portfolio," said Bedard. "If there are negative effects but they are outweighed greatly by the negative effects of other supplies like coal, maybe we should consider it. (Wave power) should be adaptively managed as part of the national energy supply portfolio."

"It's clear there's a lot of energy in the ocean yet to be tapped," added Klure. "There's no free lunch, there are risks. It's a risk worth taking but we need to do it in a very logical, sequential manner to explore what the real long-term potential is."

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See more stories tagged with: water, renewable energy, clean energy, wave energy, wave power, tidal power

Kari Lydersen, a regular contributor to AlterNet, also writes for the Washington Post and is an instructor for the Urban Youth International Journalism Program in Chicago.

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The side effects of tapping wave power
Posted by: Greg2008 on Oct 16, 2008 10:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article mentions potential side effects of tapping wave power. Consider the fact that every living system and being in the world evolved with the oceans and shores as they are -- waves crashing unhindered, swells moving across reefs, salt water moving along coasts freely. What will we affect when we take some or much of the energy out of waves locally, and partially block the movement of sea water along a shoreline?
Let's get to the real solution -- reducing human population. We must do so.

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Wave power is a research project, not a source of electricity.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Oct 16, 2008 10:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Environmental policy = energy policy
Energy policy = environmental policy
because Global Warming
can lead to Hydrogen Sulfide gas coming out of the oceans.

Hydrogen Sulfide gas will Kill all people. Homo Sap will go
EXTINCT unless drastic action is taken NOW.

October 2006 Scientific American

"EARTH SCIENCE
Impact from the Deep
Strangling heat and gases emanating from the earth and sea, not
asteroids, most likely caused several ancient mass extinctions.
Could the same killer-greenhouse conditions build once again?
By Peter D. Ward
downloaded from:
http://www.sciam.com/
article.cfm?articleID=
00037A5D-A938-150E-
A93883414B7F0000&
sc=I100322
....................Most of the article omitted......................
But with atmospheric carbon climbing at an annual rate of 2 ppm
and expected to accelerate to 3 ppm, levels could approach 900
ppm by the end of the next century, and conditions that bring
about the beginnings of ocean anoxia may be in place. How soon
after that could there be a new greenhouse extinction? That is
something our society should never find out."

Press Release
Pennsylvania State University
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, Nov. 3, 2003
downloaded from:
http://www.geosociety.org/meetings/2003/prPennStateKump.htm
"In the end-Permian, as the levels of atmospheric oxygen fell and
the levels of hydrogen sulfide and carbon dioxide rose, the upper
levels of the oceans could have become rich in hydrogen sulfide
catastrophically. This would kill most of the oceanic plants and
animals. The hydrogen sulfide dispersing in the atmosphere would
kill most terrestrial life."

www.astrobio.net is a NASA web zine. See:

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/modules.php?op=
modload&name=News&
file=article&sid=672

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/modules.php?op=
modload&name=News&
file=article&sid=1535

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/article2509.html

http://astrobio.net/news/
modules.php?op=modload
&name=News&file=article
&sid=2429&mode=thread
&order=0&thold=0

These articles agree with the first 2. They all say 6 degrees C or
1000 parts per million CO2 is the extinction point.

The global warming is already 1.3 degree Farenheit. 11 degrees
Farenheit is about 6 degrees Celsius. The book "Six Degrees" by
Mark Lynas agrees. If the global warming is 6 degrees
centigrade, we humans go extinct. See:
http://www.marklynas.org/
2007/4/23/six-steps-to-hell-
summary-of-six-degrees-as-
published-in-the-guardian

"Under a Green Sky" by Peter D. Ward, Ph.D., 2007.
Paleontologist discusses mass extinctions of the past and the one
we are doing to ourselves.

OIL SHALE, TAR SANDS AND COAL MUST BE LEFT IN
THE GROUND TO AVOID THE EXTINCTION OF US
HUMANS.
We have to convert to plug-in hybrid cars so that electricity made
by low-CO2 methods powers most of our driving. Nuclear power
produces the least CO2 of ANY source of electricity.
32 countries have nuclear power plants. Only 9 have the bomb.
The top 4 producers of CO2 all have nuclear power plants, coal
fired power plants and nuclear bombs. They are the USA, China,
India and Russia. Reducing CO2 production by 90% by 2050
requires drastic action in the USA, China, India and Russia.
Coal, oil shale and tar sands must be left untouched in the ground.

I have no connection to the nuclear power industry.

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Wave power is very unlikely to be cleaner, cheaper, safer or to produce less CO2 than nuclear power.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Oct 16, 2008 10:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Power to Save the World; The Truth About Nuclear Energy" by Gwyneth
Cravens, 2007 Finally a truthful book about nuclear power. Gwyneth Cravens
is a former anti-nuclear activist.

Page 13 has a chart of greenhouse gas emissions from electricity production.
Nuclear power produces less greenhouse gas [CO2] than any other source,
including coal, natural gas, hydro, solar and wind. Building wind turbines and
towers also involve industrial processes such as concrete and steel making.

Nuclear power plants produce a total of 30 grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour, the
lowest. This is the full life cycle CO2 output. There are no hidden CO2 outputs.

Wind turbines produce a total of 58 grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour.

Solar power produces between 100 and 280 grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour.

Hydro power produces 240 grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour.

Natural gas produces between 439 and 688 grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour.

Coal plants produce the most, between 966 and 1306 grams of CO2 per kilowatt
hour, the highest.

Remember the total is the sum of direct emissions from burning fuel and indirect
emissions from the life cycle, which means the industrial processes required to
build it. Again, nuclear comes in the lowest. Nuclear would produce even less
CO2 per kilowatt hour if the safety were lowered to the same level as other
sources of electricity. Switching from coal to nuclear is a 97% reduction in
electricity's 40% of our CO2 output. The refereed scenarios from the IPCC
failed to hold the CO2 down to 450 parts per million. You can't without building
something like 10,000 new nuclear power plants world wide to replace every coal
fired power plant on the planet. The 10,000 includes replacing all Generation 1
[Chernobyl style] power plants with safe American Generation 4 technology.
Let's get it done.

Page 211: In 2005, the production cost of electricity from:

nuclear power on average cost 1.72 cents per kilowatt-hour 1.00 times nuclear's
price. This is the full and total price. There are no hidden costs. There are no subsidies. There are no tricks. 1.72 cents per kilowatt-hour is all of it.

from coal-fired plants 2.21 cents per kilowatt-hour 1.28 times nuclear's price

from natural gas 7.5 cents per kilowatt-hour 4.36 times nuclear's price

from oil 8.09 cents per kilowatt-hour 4.7 times nuclear's price

Wind fits in here.

solar in a sunny place 22 to 40 cents per kilowatt-hour 12.79 to 23.26 times
nuclear's price

American nuclear power reactors operated in 2005 around the clock
at about 90 percent capacity

geothermal plants operated at 75 percent capacity

coal-fired plants operated at about 73 percent capacity

hydroelectric plants at 29 percent capacity

natural gas from 16 to 38 percent capacity

wind at 27 percent capacity

solar at 19 percent capacity

[Batteries not included but required for wind and solar. Why did wind and solar
operate so far below capacity? Simple: Wind power never works when the
wind isn't blowing. Solar only works at maximum during the noon hour. Wave power only works when the waves are the right height and the generator hasn't been washed away in a storm.]

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» $765,000,000,000 Posted by: Beck
We have enough nuclear fuel for FIVE THOUSAND YEARS
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Oct 16, 2008 10:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have enough nuclear fuel for FIVE THOUSAND YEARS according to
"Environmentalists for Nuclear Energy", by B. Comby. "Breeding" fissionable
fuel and recycling nuclear fuel greatly extends the supply. We have many
possible uranium mines that we haven't started mining. The reasons we are not
doing so are political and psychological. Most people have an irrational fear of
anything nuclear caused by coal industry propaganda. Rather than waste fuel by
putting it in Yucca Mountain, we should be recycling.

Everything, including yourself, is made of atoms. All atoms have nuclei. You
have many atomic nuclei inside yourself since you are made of atoms. The
simplest nucleus is one proton [hydrogen]. That would be a hydrogen atom. An
oxygen atom has 8 protons and either 8, 9 or 10 neutrons in its nucleus. All other
nuclei also have neutrons. Uranium has 92 protons and either 143 or 146
neutrons. If it has 143 neutrons it is U235. If it has 146 neutrons, it is U238.
Nuclear fuel is only 2% to 8% U235, the kind that fissions/divides, providing
energy. The rest is U238 that doesn't fission. A nuclear reaction happens when a
neutron is captured by a nucleus. If a U235 nucleus captures a neutron, the
nucleus and the atom split approximately in half and 2 or 3 neutrons are released
because the 2 smaller nuclei don't need so many neutrons. If a U238 nucleus
captures a neutron, it ejects an electron and the neutron becomes a proton. The
U238 thus becomes Plutonium 239 [Pu239]. In a power reactor, the Pu239
quickly captures another neutron, becoming Pu240. Pu240 is useless for making
bombs, which is why governments that have plutonium bombs have their own
special reactors to make Pu239. Plutonium is fissionable, which means that
plutonium is a good fuel. If you add Thorium to the fuel, you can make more
fissionable uranium. If a Thorium atom nucleus captures a neutron, it ejects an
electron and the neutron becomes a proton. The Thorium atom thus becomes
U233. U233 is fissionable.

Depending on the design of the reactor and the mix of the fuel, the fuel % in the
reactor can either grow or shrink. It is kind of like the fuel gauge can go either up
or down, but it is more like the reactor can run hotter or cooler over time. The
temperature is kept constant by adjusting the control rods. A breeder reactor is a
reactor designed to make the fissionable part of the fuel load grow rapidly. In the
US, fuel is left in the reactor for about 10 years, or 10% of the fuel is replaced each
year. The reprocessing step sorts out the fuel and puts the percentage of
fissionable fuel back to the starting percentage. In the process, plutonium may be
removed and either wasted or used as fuel. If we add thorium to the fuel, we can
make more uranium than we put in. Since the earth contains more than twice as
much thorium as uranium, it would be wise to make thorium into uranium. By
reprocessing nuclear fuel, we get an enormous, many centuries long fuel supply.

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Coal contains uranium
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Oct 16, 2008 11:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Coal is almost pure carbon, except for the URANIUM, ARSENIC, LEAD,
MERCURY, Antimony, Cobalt, Nickel, Copper, Selenium, Barium, Fluorine,
Silver, Beryllium, Iron, Sulfur, Boron, Titanium, Cadmium, Magnesium,
Calcium, Manganese, Vanadium, Chlorine, Aluminum, Chromium, Molybdenum
and Zinc that are coal's impurities. Coal smoke and cinders are commercially
viable ORE for the above elements. Coal also contains organic hydrocarbons.
Chinese industrial grade coal is sometimes stolen by peasants for cooking. The
result is that the whole family dies of arsenic poisoning because Chinese
industrial grade coal contains large amounts of arsenic. Coal varies a lot.
You have to analyze it not only mine by mine but even lump by lump.
Reference:
OUR NUCLEAR FUTURE:
THE PATH OF SELECTIVE IGNORANCE
by Alex Gabbard
Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Oak Ridge, TN
Selections from the 19th Annual Conference
SOUTHERN FUTURE SOCIETY
March 14,15,16, 1996
Nashville, Tennessee

Published by the
SOUTHERN FUTURE SOCIETY
1996
Edited by Jack D. Arters, Ed.D.
Conference Director
The truth is, all natural rocks contain most natural elements. Coal is a rock.
The average concentration of uranium in coal is 1 or 2 parts per million. Illinois
coal contains up to 103 parts per million uranium. A 1000 million watt coal
fired power plant burns 4 million tons of coal each year. If you multiply 4
million tons by 1 part per million, you get 4 tons of uranium. Most of that is
U238. About .7% is U235. 4 tons = 8000 pounds. 8000 pounds times .7% =
56 pounds of U235. An average 1000 million watt coal fired power plant puts
out 56 to 112 pounds of U235 every year. There are only 2 places the uranium
can go: Up the stack or into the cinders.
Since a reactor full fuel load is around 11 tons of 2% U235 and 98% U238, and
one load lasts about 10 years, and what one coal fired power plant puts into the
air and cinders fully fuels a nuclear power plant.
Compare 4 Million tons per year with 1.1 tons per year. 1.1 divided by 4 Million
= 2.75 E -7 = .000000275 =.0000275%. Remember that only 2% of that is
U235. The nuclear power plant needs ~44 pounds of U235 per year. The coal
fired power plant burns coal by the trainload. The nuclear power plant consumes
U235 in such small quantities yearly that you could carry that much weight in a
briefcase.
See also: http://www.ornl.gov/ORNLReview/rev26-34/text/coalmain.html

Coal is a $100 Billion per year industry in the US alone. That is why stopping
coal is going to be difficult.

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» What is CFC-114? Posted by: Beck
Nuclear fuel is recycleable
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Oct 16, 2008 11:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yucca Mountain contains an enormous supply of nuclear fuel that
should not be wasted. We don't recycle nuclear fuel because
spent fuel is valuable and people steal it. The place it went that it
wasn't supposed to go to is Israel. This happened in a small town
near Pittsburgh, PA circa 1970. A company called Numec was in
the business of reprocessing nuclear fuel. I almost took a job
there, designing a nuclear battery for a heart pacemaker. [The
army offered me more money to work on nuclear weapons
effects.] [A nuclear battery would have the advantage of lasting
many times as long as any other battery, eliminating many
surgeries to replace batteries.] Numec did NOT have a reactor.
Numec "lost" a quantity of reactor grade uranium. It wound up in
Israel. The Israelis have fueled both their nuclear power plants
and their nuclear weapons by stealing nuclear "waste." See:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/
x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreport
s/buriedlegacy/s_87948.html
It could work for any other country, such as Iran or the United
States. It is only when you don't have access to nuclear "waste"
that you have to do the difficult process of enriching uranium,
unless you have a Canadian "CANDU" reactor or a British
Magnox reactor, both of which run on unenriched uranium.
Numec is no longer in business. The reprocessing of nuclear fuel
in the US stopped. That was the only politically possible solution
at that time, given that private corporations did the reprocessing.
My solution would be to reprocess the fuel at a Government
Owned Government Operated [GOGO] facility. At a GOGO
plant, bureaucracy and the multiplicity of ethnicity and religion
would disable the transportation of uranium to Israel or to any
unauthorized place. Nothing heavier than a secret would get out.

I have no financial stake in the nuclear power industry, and I
never have. Nobody is paying me to say this.

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Natural background radiation
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Oct 16, 2008 11:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Natural Background Radiation according to Gwyneth Cravens
Reference: "Power to Save the World; The Truth About Nuclear
Energy" by Gwyneth Cravens, 2007 Finally a truthful book about
nuclear power. Gwyneth Cravens is a former anti-nuclear activist.

Page 35: Your golf clubs may contain depleted uranium [DU].
Don't worry, and don't confuse DU with spent fuel. DU is what is
removed from the uranium to make it enriched in U235. DU is
pure U238. U238 has such a long half life that it is almost not
radioactive. DU is safe to handle, but don't eat it because it is a
chemical poison. Heavy metals in general are poisons, radioactive
or not. DU has other uses that depend on its high density.

Page 70: Natural background radiation where the author happens
to be at the time is higher than what people living at Chernobyl are
getting. The US national average background radiation is 360
millirems/year.

Page 71: The natural background radiation in northeastern
Washington state is 1700 millirem/year.
The natural background radiation on the Zuni uplift is 500 to 700
millirem/year.
The natural background radiation in New Mexico is greater than the
calculated dose from the Three Mile Island meltdown, if you were
next to the reactor.
A chest x-ray gives you 10 millirem.

Page 72: The natural background radiation inside Grand Central
Station is 600 millirem/year because Grand Central Station is made
of granite. [ALL rocks are radioactive.]
The allowed exposure to the public from a nuclear power plant is
15 millirem/year.
A set of dental X-rays gives you 39 millirem.

Page 74: Smoking a pack and a half of cigarettes a day gives your
bronchial airways 1300 millirems/year according to the NCRP or
8000 millirems/year according to the National Academy of
Sciences.

Page 76: The cancer rate in New Mexico is much lower than the
national average but the natural background radiation is much
higher than average. The highest rates of cancer are around heavy
industry, chemical factories and petrochemical factories. [Benzene,
a petroleum distillate, is a very powerful carcinogen.]

Page 77: Natural gas contains radon, a radioactive gas.

Page 86: Among 80000 nuclear bomb survivors from Hiroshima
and Nagasaki, the cancer rate was only 6% higher than expected.
Radiation is very weak at causing cancer.

Page 90: At Chernobyl, only 13 to 30% of the reactor's 190 metric
tons of fuel evaporated. .13X190=24.7 tons.
.3X190=57 tons. [Much lower than the previous estimate of 200
tons, and trivial compared to what coal fired power plants give
you.]

Page 98: There is a table of millirems per year from the
background in a list of inhabited places. Here are some of them.
Chernobyl: 490 millirem/year
Guarapari, Brazil: 3700 millirem/year
Tamil Nadu, India: 5300 millirem/year
Ramsar, Iran: 8900 to 13200 millirem/year
Zero excess cancer deaths are recorded. All of the above readings
are natural except for Chernobyl.

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astroidminer-
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Oct 18, 2008 10:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
astroidminer-
do you work for the NRC?

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salemguy
Posted by: salemguy on Oct 18, 2008 12:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Goodness, I read Kari's article, created an account to respond, and all of a sudden the conversation is about nuclear power?

Before responding to that, a comment for Kari and all on tidal power.

A commercial tidal power plant has been operating in St Malo, France, since 1966, I believe.

While tidal power does require the unique conditions Kari mentions, our energy future needs to be based on smaller, distributed, and various sources -- much more varied, and locally adapted than we have supported in the past. Tidal power can be a piece of that where appropriate.

I have also wondered whether tidal power systems could be adapted to replace hydro dams, on for instance, the Snake and Columbia rivers in WA and OR, which clearly cause fish problems.

I know there's no way a tidal system could produce the same level of energy, but I think we should be looking at that as one of many smaller sources.

On the nuclear power stuff...

Ignoring the ultimate waste issue that won't go away, as far as I can tell, and re-processing makes a great deal of sense, as do nuclear batteries, I think a fundamental flaw has been present in most of our nuclear energy efforts.

To me, the reason the US Navy has had a successful nuclear engine history (again ignoring waste issues)is the scale of the reactors. I think small, distributed, and "failsafe" reactors may be more practical than the gigawatt units we've always thought we needed. There is a small (1.3 megawatt?), German unit I learned about years ago that couldn't melt down, a very clever design.

Enough on that.

I would like to understand how hydro and wind generate more CO2 than nukes, hmm? Off the top, that doesn't seem credible.

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What the coal companies know that you don't:
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Oct 19, 2008 12:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As long as you keep messing around with wind, solar, geothermal and wave
power, the coal industry is safe. There is no way wind, solar, geothermal and
wave power can replace coal, and they know it. If you quit being afraid of
nuclear, the coal industry is doomed. Every time you argue in favor of wind,
solar, geothermal and wave power, or against nuclear, King Coal is happy.
ONLY nuclear power can put coal out of business. Nuclear power HAS put coal
out of business in France. France uses 30 year old American technology. So
here is the deal: Keep being afraid of all things nuclear and die either when [not
if] civilization collapses or when H2S comes out of the ocean and Homo
"Sapiens" goes extinct. OR: Get over your paranoia and kick the coal habit and
live. Which do you choose? I put quotation marks around "Sapiens" because it
is not clear that most of us have enough brains to avoid extinction when it is
clearly predicted and the safe path has been pointed out. Nuclear is the safe path.

PS: My numbers are correct. Nuclear is the cheapest and safest source of
electricity. Nuclear life cycle CO2 output is the lowest per kilowatt hour because
it takes a huge number of windmills or solar collectors or wave machines or
whatever to produce the same power as a nuclear power plant. All of those
windmills or whatever have manufacturing processes that make CO2. Hydro
power requires an enormous amount of concrete. The first step in making
concrete is heating limestone to drive off the CO2. That is one of the sources of
CO2 from hydro power. The price for electricity for the various sources of
power include the total life cycle costs. The cost to build the reactor is not much
different from the cost to build a coal fired power plant and the money comes
from the same source. There is no $765 Billion tab. Whoever would pay for
the reactor is the same person who would pay for the coal burner. LOOK at the
price for the electricity. It is the total life cycle cost. Nuclear is the cheapest and
the only full time replacement for coal. Nuclear power would be much cheaper
than it is if nuclear were allowed to be as unsafe as the other sources of power.
Nuclear power plants are self-insured. Tax money is NOT involved and would
not be mentioned if it were not for the civil disturbances caused by coal company
shills, alias protesters. The nuclear industry needs and deserves protection from
people who are obviously either mentally ill or very misinformed. When tax
money is mentioned with respect to nuclear power, the money is the extra money
that is wasted because of pointless protests.

I DO NOT work for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. I am a retired
Department of the Army scientist and engineer.

There is NO SUCH THING as nuclear waste. There is fuel that is being wasted
for political reasons and because the coal industry has driven you paranoid. The
coal industry's reason for doing so is the $100 Billion per year cash flow they
receive as long as you remain in your present mental state. If you remain in your
present paranoid state and prevent the conversion from coal to nuclear, we all die,
as I said before. The cure for your present mental state is for you to go to
college and get a 4 year degree in a hard science [physics or chemistry] or
engineering, or for Americans to start acting like the French with respect to
nuclear power.

CFC-114 is a type of freon refrigerant and it has nothing whatsoever to do with
nuclear power.

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Why geothermal power is not possible in most locations:
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Oct 19, 2008 12:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At sufficiently high pressure, solid cold steel will flow like water.
The same is true of solid rock and any other material. As you
drill into the earth, the pressure increases with depth. The steel
pipe well casing at sufficient pressure changes from a large
diameter thin walled pipe to a small diameter thick walled pipe due
to the external pressure of the "solid" rock. Since the pressure is
equal all the way around and points toward the center of the pipe,
the pipe retains a circular cross section. Under more pressure, the
pipe becomes a solid rod. The deeper you drill, the greater this
effect becomes. The solid rock flows inward, clamping your drill
bit more and more as you drill deeper. For this reason, there is a
limit to the depth of any hole in the ground. The maximum depth
hole turns out to be too shallow to extract geothermal energy in
most locations.

I hope you will agree that drilling into liquid magma would be a
foolish idea. Yes, there are many people who live in Naples, Italy,
right beside Vesuvius. They live there in spite of the fates of
the people of ancient Pompeii and Herculanium nearby. Sorry,
but I am not that foolish.

Geothermal energy can be extracted ONLY where there is a hot,
but solidified, "Pluton" of rock near the surface of the earth. The
pluton is former magma that did not erupt as a volcano, but came
most of the way to the surface and stopped. Since the magma
pluton arrived at its location near the surface of the earth, a long
time, by comparison to a human lifetime, has passed so that the
magma has had time to cool enough to be very solid. The pluton
must still be plenty hot enough to boil water. The pluton must
also be sufficiently large to hold enough heat energy to keep
boiling water for a long time. These conditions are met in a few
places. In those few places, geothermal energy extraction is
possible.

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Thermal gradient generation
Posted by: westomoon on Oct 19, 2008 4:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A very promising ocean-based electrical generating technology didn't get mentioned in this article -- tech that makes use of the temperature variation among the "layers" of ocean water to generate current. It suits the corrosive marine environment better because it has no moving parts -- which also makes it less of a disruption to marine life.

It's kinda like the variation of geothermal they are using in northern Europe for heat pumps -- the difference in temp between soil 10 feet down and surface soil is enough to generate power, which then runs the equipment to bring air from the constant-50-degree area to house temps.

Asteroid Boy, you need to take a deep breath and recognize that, while you may know about nukes, your other info is seriously out of date. Magma-resistant pipes? Really -- SO eighties!

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Magma resistant pipes?
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Oct 20, 2008 2:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
westomoon: I have known about those small thermal gradients
for 30 years. Small thermal gradients are like very low-head
hydro: not very useful. True, you can get a "toy" amount of
energy out of them, or you can use ground heat to heat houses.
A few inches of water head can spin a toy water wheel. A few
feet of water head can supply a useful amount of electricity if the
flow is great enough. Rock Island Arsenal gets part of its
electricity from low head hydro. That is good, but so what? Get
serious. We don't need to build toys. All of the useful low head
sources have already been tapped. We need to build serious
power plants, like 1000 megawatts per machine, and the machine
has to keep on working for decades. We are not trying to heat
individual houses, that is a separate subject. We are trying to
provide electricity to run the heat pumps for millions of houses.
Yes, both land and oceans have low thermal gradients that have
been proposed for various uses. That's nice, but it's a different
subject. Ocean thermal gradients have been proposed for
pumping cold water to the surface of the ocean. That is a
different subject.

Magma resistant pipes? Silly idea. Magma is not only hot, it
also moves and explodes. I didn't mention any such thing.
Nobody I know of mentioned magma resistant pipes in the 80s, or
at any other time. A hot but solidified pluton is NOT magma.
An example of a hot but solidified pluton is hot granite. Granite is
rather solid. A granite pluton isn't moving anywhere. But a hot
granite pluton can contain a lot of heat because it is big.

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» RE: Magma resistant pipes? Posted by: westomoon
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