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War on Iraq

Where Have All the Protests Gone?

By Tom Engelhardt, Tomdispatch.com. Posted October 30, 2007.


As the occupation of Iraq continues, the number and magnitude of demonstrations appear to be shrinking. What is happening to the protest culture of wars past?
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As I was heading out into a dark, drippingly wet, appropriately dispiriting New York City day, on my way to the "Fall Out Against the War" march -- one of 11 regional antiwar demonstrations held this Saturday -- I was thinking: then and now, Vietnam and Iraq. Since the Bush administration had Vietnam on the brain while planning to take down Saddam Hussein's regime for the home team, it's hardly surprising that, from the moment its invasion was launched in March 2003, the Vietnam analogy has been on the American brain -- and, even domestically, there's something to be said for it.

As John Mueller, an expert on public opinion and American wars, pointed out back in November 2005, Americans turned against the Iraq War in a pattern recognizable from the Vietnam era (as well as the Korean one) -- initial, broad post-invasion support that eroded irreversibly as American casualties rose. "The only thing remarkable about the current war in Iraq," Mueller wrote, "is how precipitously American public support has dropped off. Casualty for casualty, support has declined far more quickly than it did during either the Korean War or the Vietnam War." He added, quite correctly, as it turned out: "And if history is any indication, there is little the Bush administration can do to reverse this decline."

Where the Vietnam analogy distinctly breaks down, however, is in the streets. In the Vietnam era, the demonstrations started small and built slowly over the years toward the massive -- in Washington, in cities around the country, and then on campuses nationwide. In those years, as anger, anxiety, and outrage mounted, militancy rose, and yet the range of antiwar demonstrators grew to include groups as diverse as "businessmen against the war" and large numbers of ever more vociferous Vietnam vets, often just back from the war itself. Almost exactly the opposite pattern -- the vets aside -- has occurred with Iraq. The prewar demonstrations were monstrous, instantaneously gigantic, at home and abroad. Millions of people grasped just where we were going in late 2002 and early 2003, and grasped as well that the Bush dream of an American-occupied Iraq would lead to disaster and death galore. The New York Times, usually notoriously unimpressed with demonstrations, referred to the massed demonstrators then as the second "superpower" on a previously one superpower planet. And it did look, as the Times headline went, as if there were "a new power in the streets."

But here was the strange thing, as the "lone superpower" faltered, as the Bush administration and the Pentagon came to look ever less super, ever less victorious, ever less powerful, so did that other superpower. Discouragement of a special sort seemed to set in -- initially perhaps that the invasion had not been stopped and that, in Washington, no one in a tone-deaf administration even seemed to be listening. Still, through the first years of the war, on occasion, hundreds of thousands of demonstrators could be gathered in one spot to march massively, even cheerfully; these were crowds filled with "first timers" (who were proud to tell you so); and, increasingly, with the families of soldiers stationed in Iraq (or Afghanistan), or of soldiers who had died there, and even, sometimes, with some of the soldiers themselves, as well as contingents of vets from the Vietnam era, now older, greyer, but still vociferously antiwar.

However, over the years, unlike in the Vietnam era, the demonstrations shrank, and somehow the anxiety, the anger -- though it remained suspended somewhere in the American ether -- stopped manifesting itself so publicly, even as the war went on and on. Or put another way, perhaps the anger went deeper and turned inward, like a scouring agent. Perhaps it went all the way into what was left of an American belief system, into despair about the unresponsiveness of the government -- with paralyzing effect. As another potentially more disastrous war with Iran edges into sight, the response has been limited largely to what might be called the professional demonstrators. The surge of hope, of visual creativity, of spontaneous interaction, of the urge to turn out, that arose in those prewar demonstrations now seemed so long gone, replaced by a far more powerful sense that nothing anyone could do mattered in the least.


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See more stories tagged with: iraq, vietnam, protest

Tom Engelhardt, who runs the Nation Institute's Tomdispatch.com, is the co-founder of the American Empire Project. His book, The End of Victory Culture (University of Massachusetts Press), has just been thoroughly updated in a newly issued edition that deals with victory culture's crash-and-burn sequel in Iraq.

Tam Turse is a photojournalist working in New York City. Her photos of the demonstration discussed in this piece can be viewed by clicking here.

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Beat me too, Tom
Posted by: yankabroad on Oct 30, 2007 12:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tom, Duh, I dunno.

It's a mystery why there wouldn't be at least a few million Americans willing to take to the streets, especially considering 30-40% strongly oppose the war.

It's a mystery, but then so are a lot of things.

What isn't so much a mystery is the direction in which Amerika is headed------------DOWN!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Re-instate the DRAFT Posted by: BKLN
» RE: e-instate the DRAFT Posted by: outlander55
» 57yrold steve (no longer middle of the road) Posted by: middle of the road
» Meanwhile In Little Rock Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Beat me too, Tom Posted by: donl51
» RE: Beat me too, Tom Posted by: blitzmesser
YES AND THIS!!
Posted by: Rshaw on Oct 30, 2007 12:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes and with this apathy we also need to deal with this: "Bush heats up words with Iran and Russia"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x33aVxueXgg

We better get active!

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» RE: That's right Pammy-Troll Posted by: boydranchitos
Give up all hope
Posted by: Kmuzu on Oct 30, 2007 1:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush is at a 18 percent approval rating. The Recans are begging him to get out of Iraq. It doesn't matter to him. He's like a crazed monkey with a gun.

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» RE: Give up all hope Posted by: yankabroad
What does gathering together with a couple thousand
Posted by: owlbear1 on Oct 30, 2007 3:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
people and waving signs accomplish?

All these "Where are all the protesters?" "Why aren't they running around on the streets?" "Why aren't they waving signs?" stories never talk about what ANY of that accomplishes.

Where are they? Using much more effective tools than a cardboard sign on the corner of 1st and main...

Now if you want to take about a protest march that burns down a Republican HQ office then we might get somewhere...

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the protesters are here
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa on Oct 30, 2007 3:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they are in columbus ohio at e. n. broadway and high.... not as glam as new yuck, but there are protesters.

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Different impact
Posted by: brunowe on Oct 30, 2007 3:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's no draft, so whole socio-economic sectors of the population aren't affected this time around. Further, although the war is a moral and strategic disaster, the US still isn't taking nearly as many losses as it did during Vietnam.

I think one can also ask the question re how effective were the protests against the war in Vietnam? Did they end it or was the factor the failure of US forces in the field to successfully pursue a counter-insurgency war. Although Tet was a huge military defeat for the VC/NVA forces, the fact that they were able to launch it after years of the US government talking about "the light at the end of the tunnel" put the emphasis on the lack of progress.

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The protests exist, the media doesn't cover them.
Posted by: Sweeet Pea on Oct 30, 2007 5:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I marched on April 29, 2006 with a whole f*cking mess of fellow Americans who've just about had it.

What's a whole f*cking mess, you ask? Well, the organizers said 350k. The police, crafty little f*ckers that they are, didn't give an estimate. Brilliant, really. Because what do you do? You take the organizers number and the police number and you get yourself a nice little average. Fine. Let's say police said ZERO. Half of 350 is 175. According to the press it was "tens of thousands". That's not "tens of thousands" that's HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS! AT LEAST one hundred and seventy five thousand people took to the streets in Manhattan. That is THREE TIMES the capacity of Giants Stadium.

I felt like I was in the twilight zone when I found out it was BURIED on page THIRTY-SEVEN of the Sunday NY Times. 37. Tens of thousands.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10704049/

Here's a lukewarm msnbc article on it, but look at the picture! That stretched for forty blocks. For three or four hours.

So the question ISN'T where are the protesters, the question is: why bother?

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It's probably too late for activism
Posted by: LMNOP on Oct 30, 2007 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For more that two years, I've been reading articles here on AlterNet and elsewhere warning Americans that if we don't rise up soon, there's trouble ahead. We are warned that the democracy and all of our most cherished principles are at stake, and there has been no response from America. This article asks why.

Perhaps those who are willing to protest, a shrinking number, are recognizing that we're well beyond the stage where protest can be effective. It requires a democracy.

There comes a time in the evolution of a republic into a dictatorship when the democratic processes that defined it as a republic are no longer effective, processes such as voting, campaigning, letter-writing, protesting, referenda generation and the like. Obviously, none of those activities would have had any power in Hitler's Germany or Marcos' Philippines. When that time comes, the republic is gone and cannot recovered democratically. Many of us believe that America is there now.

There hasn't been an "if we - then they" threat to democracy since well before the 2006 election. Clearly, democracy was already dead in America by that time. We had had three consecutive tainted elections already in 2000, 2002, and 2004, all with losers assuming office. Many believe that the last honest national election was in the twentieth century.

How do I know democracy is dead? Define it, then consider this: In 2006, the voters sent Congress and the president a mandate to begin ending their war. They laughed. Congress took impeachment off of the table and approved Bush's war budget without benchmarks, goals or timelines. Bush escalated the war.

Another poster elsewhere on this site noted, "We've been out on the streets, tasered, put in the jails, blacklisted by Homeland Security, given federal prison sentences for non-violent protest, and organized until we're exhausted, but nothing changes"

I believe that it's too late for activism.

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» Well said Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: Yes, but not all Americans Posted by: progressivetype
» RE: Yes,but...forgot to add Posted by: progressivetype
There are no shared...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Oct 30, 2007 5:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...sacrifices like in WWII or Viet Nam. Most of us do not have an immediate vested interest in what is going on and paid little attention.

The war criminals in the white house just sent out the storm troopers when protests occurred, let them blow off some steam, ignore them, and then let Faux News et al. demonize them.

I guarantee if there was a draft, there would be violence and death in the streets as in Viet Nam and people would pay attention (we love violence).

In addition, you cannot get close to the Shrub when he gives one of his contrived, unannounced, speeches, surrounded by dittoheads.

Protests just will not work anymore unless the people there are REALLY angry because they have kids being killed or sent to be killed and maimed.

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still hopeful
Posted by: boardsailor on Oct 30, 2007 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last Saturday in Smithfield, NC the Stop Torture Flights group held a protest against rendition/torture and AERO Contractors, the company based at the Johnston County airport that has been involved with the CIA and its rendition flights. AERO Contractors has been implicated in more than one instance of involvement with such actions.

While we began to set up for the march/rally in the park the Gathering of Eagles and Rolling Thunder arrived to counter protest in the streets nearby. Their message was that by opposing torture and the war somehow we hate the troops & America, and various other nonsensical conjectures. During the period before the march began a couple of their group actually got into conversations with some of the Peacekeepers (people expressly there to maintain a space between the two groups and prevent violent interactions) and also with some anti Torture protesters. Later at the AERO Contractors site there were again dialog exchanges that ended in handshakes between the two opposing sides.

During the march some counter protesters stood on benches and around the Veterans memorial supposedly to "protect" it from the anti torture group. They were quite vile and vulgar in remarks to the "moonbats" (their term of "endearment for the protesters) that marched past. Hope for ending torture/renditions and finding some resolve is not dead but civility was certainly strained. I don't deny their passion but I'll bet their mammas tried to teach them better manners when they were kids. What came from it all at the end of the day was people from both sides of the issue remarking that they were surprised at the dialogs that had occurred and were hopeful that more could follow.

I'd also like to point out that not all the veterans in attendance were with the Gathering of Eagles/Rolling Thunder group. Several members of Veterans For Peace and Iraqi Veterans Against War were also in attendance with the Stop Torture rally. We are definitely not anti troop/military but we are opposed to the misguided policies of this Bush administration that have put our troops in harm's way. We are not all "roll over pacifists" nor in complete denial of terrorists but we think the obvious mishandling of this war in Iraq has helped to create more terrorists and sympathizers for them than it has eliminated. Any real grunt can tell you that war is not a good solution - never was nor will be. Pre-emptive PEACE and pre-emptive diplomacy works better. Look at the Special Forces "hearts and minds" policy. Think of how many innocent Iraqi civilians have been killed, wounded and displaced since we "liberated" them. I'm fairly certain they don't appreciate Bush's "spreading democracy" into their lives right now. Such a shame that a few individuals can create so much heartache for so many - on both sides of the issues.

Special THANKS! to the Smithfield police and the town of Smithfield for allowing our rally. It was a special day for America that both sides could come together and express their views in such relative peace. It was somehow ironic considering the Civil War and racist history of Smithfield/Johnston County that Brothers-in-Arms would stand in opposition there yet this time walk away with a glimmer of hope and understanding.

Stop Torture Now - don't just re-define it! This from a USAF veteran, 66-71, Veteran for Peace.

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» RE: still hopeful Posted by: progressivetype
Are you kidding?
Posted by: bashaurette on Oct 30, 2007 5:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I spent the year before the war started, and the next two years after, in the streets almost every weekend. It took me that long to realize that all the marching and sign-waving accomplishes next to nothing. In fact, in the city where I live, most of the protests take on a party atmosphere. There are a lot of important messages spread at every protest, but to an already sympathetic audience - the people who really need to hear those words of protest aren't paying attention anyway. And sure, it feels good to be out there blowing off steam and expressing your anger about the war in the company of fellow protestors ... but after a while that starts to feel really self-indulgent. I'd rather spend my time effectively, working on campaigns, voter registration, spreading news and working on changing the opinions of the people I *can* influence - my family, friends, and the people I meet every day.

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» RE: Are you kidding? Posted by: drmflorida
Why aren't the protests raging? Nobody is being drafted...YET!
Posted by: Farasien on Oct 30, 2007 5:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The main problem with the antiwar movement at the moment is, unlike in the Vietnam era, nobody is being pulled from their homes and lives by force. Only the deluded, stupid and psychopathic contingents of society are going at the moment, but if certain assholes in both parties currently occupying Washington have their way, this will soon change. When it becomes a fact of life that kids are going to go to war against people the banking elite decide have to die for their profits weather or not they choose to, the glory days of protests and riots will begin again. Until that happens, we'll languish in the herd mentality with the collective opinion that while 'dude, the war, like, um... sucks?' nobody is going to be the one to stand up and give the Washinton Elites the stiff middle finger they all so richly deserve. I weep for our future... if we even have one anymore at this point.

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Some reasons
Posted by: hagwind on Oct 30, 2007 5:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's no draft, so fewer people feel directly threatened.

Take a close look at how many hours we're working to pay the basic bills, and how many hours are left over to take on a volunteer organizing project. (Those huge demonstrations of the late 1960s and 1970s were not spontaneous outpourings.)

Take a close look at the cost of college, and how many hours go into paying for that, and how many students are focused on training for the kind of jobs that will repay those loans.

For the last twenty-five years or so, less and less of many of our lives takes place in public. Instead of going to the movies, we rent a film and watch it at home, alone or with friends. The price of theater, concert, and professional sports tickets is so high that most of us can't buy them regularly, even on the local level. The Internet -- well, that's a subject in itself. Much has been made of what a great organizing tool it is -- and it is a great organizing tool -- but it's also got huge limitations. It's better at encouraging people to talk than at encouraging people to listen -- or to speak more clearly, or in ways that a variety of people are likely to hear. There's a lot more to organizing than clicking a contribution to the cause of your choice and forwarding a mass mailing to 50 of your "friends."

Having come of political age in the late 1960s, I think public demonstrations are tremendously important. They're tremendously energizing -- the most important part of a big demo is what happens after you get home -- and they show us to ourselves. But they don't happen spontaneously.

Small demos happen occasionally where I live, but I rarely go to them. They don't build energy; they drain it. The organizers think that earnest haranguing is the main point of the demo, and they still haven't figured out that you don't position the stage so the listeners have the sun in their eyes. Demos, small or large, are like revival meetings. Hell, they are revival meetings. The preaching should inspire, not depress. Music sure doesn't hurt either.

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» RE: Some reasons Posted by: Turkiye
» RE: Some reasons Posted by: VannaLaRoche
Because computer commando-ing SEEMS to get more done a lot quicker
Posted by: xbj on Oct 30, 2007 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Millions of people in the street... MSM ignores or downplays it... seems to have no effect whatsoever.

ONE post on ONE blog with the right damning and deadly accurate information... spreads like wildfire, and heads roll, eventually. Infinitely easier to reach tipping point on the net quicker.

New times and fascist regimes require new tactics, and the internet is the new street. Crowds there get noticed and responded to.

The only march, sadly, at this point, that will get any results is one with torches, pitchforks, coils of rope and piano wire, and every weapon someone can carry. And battering rams.

Because Gandhi-MLK style peaceful protest is not only marginalized, it is completely and utterly ignored.

In the 60's and 70's it was different; the MSM wasn't on the take and wasn't complicit and actually reported the news accurately.

No more. We live in a totalitarian regime, with only the merest appearance of a democracy. An impotent dying republic.

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Taking It To The Streets in O'Town and Getting Sen. Mike Gravel's Irish UP!!!
Posted by: wawa on Oct 30, 2007 5:56 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[Orlando, Fl. October 27, 2007] As a veteran of justice and peace marches, my estimate is that 3,000 concerned justice and peace patriotic Americans and 50 counter demonstrators took it to the streets of Orlando on a humid overcast Saturday.

A comrade from the US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation and a member of the Steering Committee of United for Peace and Justice, Omar Masri, American Lebanese, kicked off the happening and roused the crowd, "I f-----g believe in peace! 70% of Americans say NO more occupation of Iraq, bring back the troops! Power to the people and we will not be silent! End the occupation now!"

Senator [ 1969-1980] Mike Gravel admitted on stage, "You bet I am angry! If you have a heart you would be angry too!...It boggles the mind how one human being can kill and dismember another's body and Congress sits in their air conditioned office and says it's just Foreign Policy [when] its murder!

...This reporter caught the last twenty minutes of Sen. Gravel's local radio interview and got in his face and said, "I will not be silenced either and I noted how you cited America, Britain, France and Japan as the major players in weapons of destruction, but why didn't you mention Israel, the third largest exporter of weapons of destruction?

"Why don't you talk about how forty years ago the USS LIBERTY was targeted and our sailors were cold bloodily murdered by Israel and the survivors were told to shut up by our government, threatened with court-martial and worse?

"What about Vanunu who has been told to shut up by the government of Israel?"

Gravel got red in the face and his Irish was most certainly up as he responded, "What do you want me to do about it?"

My Irish was up too and I retorted, "I want you to do something! Talk about it!"

Immediately, Gravel's handlers whisked him away for his photo op and one of his boys asked me for my card and tried to silence me by stating, "A representative will be in touch."

This reporter is not holding her breath and will not be silenced or give up in the pursuit of taking back America by we the people for I "hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights; that, among these, are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; and, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it." -July 4, 1776. The Declaration of Independence

"The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."-Tom Paine

On with that revolution!

DO SOMETHING:

Create a Gov. BY WE THE PEOPLE:
http://www.ni4d.us/


Full report WAWA blog Oct. 28
http://www.wearewideawake.org/

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Different strategy needed
Posted by: Constitutionalist75 on Oct 30, 2007 6:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the news media are owned and operated by big corporations, so of course they ignore demonstrations that go against their business interests like the New American Century of World domination for ever-expanding markets and ever-growing populations of low-wage workers. They would rather die rich on a dead planet than be moderately prosperous on a living biosphere.

So, what can be done to stop such a global monster? Stop feeding it. Promote family planning clinics to reduce the human population and establish regional and continental networks of eco-tech villages that grow their own food, make their own clothing, educate their own children and trade with each other for mutual benefit with harm to none, while surrounding themselves with miles of healthy wilderness. Is it possible? Is life on Earth worth saving?

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Where are they?
Posted by: Serafim Tkachuk on Oct 30, 2007 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They're where you are, and where I am: sitting at home in front of the Internet.

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» RE: Where are they? Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Where are they? Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» Sadly, but true Posted by: StPeteRican
Choosing your protest
Posted by: anothername on Oct 30, 2007 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Englehardt rambles in his essay so I am not sure if he is concerned most about the lack of protests or about what he sees as a general decline in civic duty. No doubt there is some correlation between civic duty and protests, but I am not sure it is a direct correlation.

I have heard the argument that we are not protesting because we do not have a draft. I am not sure how much that plays into the lack of massive marches. Much of the one-on-one objections I hear to the war are the financial costs, but the United States does not have a strong history of economic protest marches.

There is also the role of the news media. Before the invasion, when there was still opposition to be heard from Washington, I listened to reporter after reporter opine that once the president made his decision the American people would all be behind him. I was furious and objected to the editors of those reporters. Historically that automatic support might have been true, and it turned out to be the case in 2003, but I still wonder how much of the early post-invasion support came because the news media told the people they were going to support the president.

The media role, enforced by the White House, continues. We do not see flag-draped coffins. We do not see soldiers screaming in pain on a battlefield with their limbs blown off. We see, instead, the happy homecomings of National Guard troops and the sadness of departure of Army Resrves.

Then there is also the simple reality that economics of personal existence in 2007 is much more time consuming than it was in 1968. I also know people who are hesitant about participating in protests, particularly if there is a possibility of arrest, because of how it would look on college and job applications.

I have participated in protests over the years, but I personally do not choose to participate in many. Nevertheless, I find myself inspired, motivated, encouraged when I see large rallies and marches. Unfortunately, a recent protest march with mock coffins drew slightly more than 100 people, surprisingly including the mayor, but he is running for re-election. It received very little news coverage. However, the next day the news media reported 1,200 people gathered in a local church to protest against gay marriages. This would suggest that protests are still important to Americans, it is only a matter of choosing the right issue.

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Hmm...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Oct 30, 2007 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.. could have something to do with the tepid kind of protest we see now with its total eschewing of "violence" against property and objects.. not just people, which is something to eschew.. and an unwillingness to actually disrupt ANYTHING and to try to discredit those who do paired with the fact that the tepid protests of "please please please listen to us, please.. or we'll come back late and ask you politely again" simply haven't worked at all because this administration does not give a shit about what the people of this nation or even the entire world think or want.

Bush ignored the largest worldwide protests in history... and you think he is going to listen to the mealy mouthed crap coming out of most of the anti-war movement? Hell... even Democrats don't REALLY want to do anything for you... they just want to trick you into voting for them, make a few noises of protest... and then cowtow to the administration completely.

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» But.. yknow... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
bring back the draft--and stop yakking about impeachment
Posted by: zooeyhall on Oct 30, 2007 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like some other posters on this article, I feel that the reason we don't have active protests against the war is because there is no draft.

If we had a draft, with NO exemptions, things would change in a BIG hurry. Especially for the "Lexus Liberals" in the upper class suburbs--if they knew that there was a chance that their precious Johnny (or Jane's) ass was in line to get pulled out of college and sent to Iraq to get shot off.

Under the current system, it is the sons and daughters of the trailer parks and rural areas (I know because I live in rural Nebraska) and that checker at Walmart who enlist and submit to the brutal training and then go off to war. This suits certain elements on both right AND the left just fine!

And another thing--stop all this noise about impeachment. I mean, really, what are the chances of Bush getting impeached? About a snowball's chance in hell, that's what! This is just pointless sputtering by some of my fellow progressives. A waste of time and energy that only serves to marginalize us. Instead, let's put our energies into the things I mentioned above and get some real change.

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» Not again Posted by: BTDT
Blame Bush for the lack of protests
Posted by: rockmanac on Oct 30, 2007 6:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem is not people not wanting to protest, it's that with all of Bush's new laws he's been able to threaten to and/or throw everyone who would protest in jail...or at least make life really, really miserable for them.

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» Happens everyday Posted by: BTDT
There Is Really A Simple Answer
Posted by: johntrileytee on Oct 30, 2007 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the draft is instituted like it was during Vietnam, not only would we see thousands of protesters, but we would see a quick end to this immoral war.

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» Is There Really A Simple Answer??? Posted by: Constitutionalist75
We protest weekly
Posted by: thought-crime on Oct 30, 2007 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our group protests against the war WEEKLY in front of the Texas State Capitol. Every Saturday, rain or shine, we gather from 11 AM - 3 PM and say, "NO MORE!" We even provide signs and handouts for people willing to join our group. We also provide documentary DVD's. Yet, for as many so-called Patriots in Austin, we don't draw a very large crowd. I think this is mainly because people have the comfort of their living rooms, dens or bedrooms in which to blog or pass on myspace bulletins, making themselves feel like they are helping in some way. People need to take to the streets in the MILLIONS. We need to do it now before the fascist grasp of the coming dictatorship destroys the Republic we all take for granted.

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» RE: We protest weekly Posted by: VannaLaRoche
I am protesting with my money
Posted by: DrSuess on Oct 30, 2007 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right now I am moving all the money I have out of the country and away from the US dollar. Bush has made it illegal to protest on the streets, and he will not listen to us when we try and protest peacefully, so the only thing left to do is vote with our dollars. Money is the only thing Bush respects anyway.

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That's my story
Posted by: ladyoracle on Oct 30, 2007 7:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When Bush first threatened to move from Afganistan into Iraq, I at age 22-3 mobilized along with the very vibrant counterculture in Tampa, FL. We made signs and demonstrated, and in January, 2003 I joined one of three tour buses from FL to D.C. to march against the war--before it started. There were famous leftist speakers and upward of 500K protesters. It was the weekend, and the streets were totally deserted. Except for us, and I felt like I was doing my duty as a citizen.

Then Bush invaded Iraq anyway, and I signed petitions, wrote letters, listened to Pacifica Radio, and and even sent antiwar groups what money I could.

And nothing changed. By the time the political tide shifted last year and the popular consensus was against the war, I hated that popular mass so much I didn't even care whose side they were on.

Yes, I do not vocalize against the war anymore. I still sign the online petitions, worthless though I know them to be, and that's about it. I spoke loudly and with conviction, and my government and fellow citizens called me a terrorist sympathizer. Believe me, I have learned my place. I'm only 28, but I already understand as I never had before how people went from hippie to yuppie.

But being so anti-American, I will fit in better somewhere else. My boyfriend and I plan to move to Malaysia next year and try something different. Ex-patriotism is my last reserve. Jump the stinking, sinking ship.

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» Enjoy the oppression Posted by: BTDT
HO HUM, SAME OLD STUFF
Posted by: Constitutionalist75 on Oct 30, 2007 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sophisticated creature comforts and electronic entertainments have corrupted the people so we blather on and on but do nothing to change the system that feeds us and keeps us amused. To establish a network of eco-tech villages that grow their own food, make their own clothing, educate their own children and surround themselves with miles of healthy wilderness WOULD CHANGE THE SYSTEM, but it's just too much hard work and would cost every dollar we have! Nevermind, what's on the Discovery channel, or National Geographics? We only watch shows and buy products that are environmentally sensitive! That way in a hundred years or so, everything will work out just fine, no problem ( ! )

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A small part of the problem lies with the organizers of the protests
Posted by: Ellie1 on Oct 30, 2007 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I participated in (what I thought was) an anti-war protest in Washington, D.C.-first time. The protest started almost two hours late, and we stood around listening to endless speeches by all kinds of causes. Also people thrusted pamphlets at me for all kinds of causes-including the American Communist Party, socialists, and every candidate running for president, no matter how obscure, including Lyndon LaRouche and Ron Paul.

And I agree with the post about the media-it has been obtained and muzzled by those in power. Large protests are ignored by media, and if it isn't on TV, it never happened. Part of the Bush plan to keep the American public uninformed and ignorant. And most people are too lazy or don't have the time to search for things.

No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence (and gumption) of the American public. And Bushit knows it. His followers are prime examples of it.

How I despise this administration.

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» Wow, Bush Plan Posted by: BTDT
New anti-war film 'Ahlaam'
Posted by: iwan239 on Oct 30, 2007 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although not totally related to your current post, I just wanted to let you know of a ground breaking new anti-war film that is opening this weekend in London and will continue screening in numerous other venues in the near future.

We need all the help we can to get this film out there and seen.




IRAQ 'S POST-SADDAM FEATURE AHLAAM TO BE RELEASED IN CINEMAS ACROSS THE UK FROM 2ND NOVEMBER 2007.

AHLAAM (Dream, Mohamed Al-Daradji, UK/Iraq/Netherlands, 2006)

Based on true stories, Ahlaam takes us on an incredible journey, following two psychiatric patients, who escape from their mental institution in Baghdad, and a young doctor on the night US forces start their 'shock and awe' campaign to "liberate" Iraq from Saddam Hussein's totalitarian regime.

Ahlaam is Iraq's second post-Saddam feature to hit the big screen. Al-Daradji's debut feature was filmed under highly unstable conditions, with cast and crew encountering not only all kinds of technical restrictions, but being exposed to shooting, abductions, torture and imprisonment, both by insurgents and the American forces.

After attending over 75 festivals around the world and winning many respected awards, the film was selected for consideration for Best Foreign Language Film at the Academy Awards 2007 and screened to an attentive audience at the BAFTA .

For security reasons, Al-Daradji had been unable to screen the film in Baghdad. His dream to show it to his own people came true last April, with a screening at the National Theatre to over one thousand people, including cast and crew, members of Iraq's beleaguered artistic community and government officials. They braved fears of terror attacks to attend and midway through the showing, a rumour that a minibus with explosives had been parked nearby swept the theatre. Luckily it was a false alarm. On the day of the screening, over 200 people were killed in Baghdad by insurgent attacks.

Ahlaam will be screened in much safer circumstances in the UK starting from Friday 2 November at the ICA London when a special Q&A will be held. Film is being released through Human Film and will tour around the country.

Other screenings…

HAWKHURST
KINO
7
02-Nov-07






BRADFORD
PICTUREVILLE
7
23-Nov-07

CHICHESTER
NEW PARK
2
01-Dec-07

ABERYSTWYTH
ARTS CENTRE
3
08-Dec-07

INVERNESS
EDEN COURT
2
20-Feb-08


Edinburgh Filmhouse – Edinburgh for 4 days from 7th December with Q&A


For further information on Ahlaam, please visit www.ahlaamthemovie.com or www.humanfilm.co.uk www.myspace.com/ahlaamthemovie or to view the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN7wAgQlsbk

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Amerika is headed toward the abyss
Posted by: outlander55 on Oct 30, 2007 8:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And not many people seem to care. Too many Americans are too willing to believe the crap coming out of the corporate media. I did not see any news reports of the October 27 protests on ABC, NBC, CBS, or CNN. Besides, most of them would rather watch The Simpsons and Family Guy than watch a news report. The NFL is more of a concern than any war we may be involved in. When I have asked people if they saw the news, they say, "It is too depressing" or "No, I was watching the game".
If there was a draft, and young men had to postpone their college partying to go to war, you can bet that there would be more protests. But, as long as they don't have to serve, they will go on partying and be oblivious to the reality of the world.

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