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War on Iraq

Congress Wants to Split Iraq in Three Pieces, But Who Asked Them?

By Tom Engelhardt, Tomdispatch.com. Posted October 6, 2007.


Congress wants to further mess Iraq up by splitting it into three areas. Iraq Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki calls the plan a "disaster."
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At least Caesar was just commenting on reality when he wrote that "all Gaul is divided into three parts." Last week, Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Joe Biden attempted to create reality when an overwhelming majority of the U.S. Senate voted for his non-binding resolution to divide Iraq into three parts -- Shiite, Sunni, and Kurdish autonomous zones. Shailagh Murray of the Washington Post reported that the 75-23 Senate vote was "a significant milestone ..., carving out common ground in a debate that has grown increasingly polarized and focused on military strategy." Murray added, "The [tripartite] structure is spelled out in Iraq's constitution, but Biden would initiate local and regional diplomatic efforts to hasten its evolution."

In Iraq, the plan was termed a "disaster" by Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki; a representative of Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani called the Senate resolution "a step toward the breakup of Iraq." He added, according to Juan Cole's Informed Comment website, "It is a mistake to imagine that such a plan will lead to a reduction in chaos in Iraq; rather, on the contrary, it will lead to an increase in the butchery and a deepening of the crisis of this country, and the spreading of increased chaos, even to neighboring states." In the meantime, Sunni clerics and various political parties joined in the denunciations. Only the Kurds, eager for an independent state, evidently welcomed the plan.

Cole caught the essence of this latest stratagem perfectly: First, he pointed out, the Senate "messed up Iraq by authorizing Terrible George to blow it up, now they want to further mess it up by dividing it."

But here's the most curious thing in this strange exercise in counting to three -- simply that it happened in the United States. Let's imagine, for a moment, that the Iraqi Parliament had voted a non-binding resolution to grant congressional representation to Washington DC or to allow California's electoral votes to be divided up by district. Or what if the Iranian parliament had just passed a non-binding resolution to divide the United States into semi-autonomous bio-regions?

Such acts would, of course, be considered not just outrageous and insulting, but quite mad and, on our one-way planet, they are indeed little short of unimaginable. But no one I noticed in the mainstream of political Washington or the media that covers it -- whether agreeing with the proposal or not -- seemed to find it even faintly odd for the U.S. Senate to count to three in support of a plan that, at best, would put an American stamp of approval on the continuing ethnic cleansing of Iraq.

No matter how meaningless Biden's resolution may turn out to be as policy, it has the benefit of taking us directly to bedrock Washington belief systems -- specifically, that it is America's global duty to solve the crises of other nations (even the ones that we set off). We are, after all, the nation-building nation par excellence and, despite all evidence to the contrary in Iraq, it is still impossible for official Washington to imagine us as anything but part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

You can find this same thinking no less readily available in another counting exercise under way in Washington ...

Counting to Five, to Ten, to Fifty

Right now, leading Democrats, as well as Republicans, are focused on counting to both five and ten, which turn out to be the same thing. In a recent debate among the Democratic candidates for the presidency, for instance, the top three (by media and polling agreement), Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and John Edwards refused to commit to having all American troops out of Iraq by 2013, the end of a first term in office -- five years from now, and 10 years from the March 2003 launching of the invasion.

Like much else of recent vintage, this 10-year count may have started with our surge commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, who, for some time, has been telling just about anyone willing to listen that counter-insurgency operations in Iraq could take "up to a decade." ("In fact," he told Fox News in June, "typically, I think historically, counter-insurgency operations have gone at least nine or 10 years.") Now, it seems, his to-the-horizon-and-beyond Iraqi timetable has largely been subsumed into an inside-the-Beltway consensus that no one -- not in this administration or the next, not a new president or a new Congress -- will end our involvement in Iraq in the foreseeable future; that, in fact, we must stay in Iraq and that, the worse it gets, the more that becomes true -- if only to protect the Iraqis (and our interests in the Middle East) from even worse.


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See more stories tagged with: iraq, congress, biden, partition, hubris

Tom Engelhardt, who runs the Nation Institute's Tomdispatch.com, is the co-founder of the American Empire Project. His book, The End of Victory Culture (University of Massachusetts Press), has just been thoroughly updated in a newly issued edition that deals with victory culture's crash-and-burn sequel in Iraq.

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Our Decider-In-Chief's decision has destroyed Iraq
Posted by: vox persona on Oct 6, 2007 12:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mission accomplished George. But why? Oh yeah, for the oil. It kind of doesn't matter what we do now. If we stay, it will be a disaster. If we leave, it will be a catastrophe. It's lose-lose. Our very presence fuels hostilities, and whoever we work witrh defacto endorses their death squads.
Partition Iraq? Maybe if we did it in 2003, but it may not have worked even then. It was only the iron fist of the tyrant Saddam that kept the seams from bursting, now we have to step in as Saddam-Lite. We screwed up at every level in that country, starting decades ago. Oh, the humanity. Bush shocked the American people with his colossal blunder, and still awes us with his arrogant stupidity. Body counts? We don't need no stinkin' body counts.
Depleted uranium, a destroyed infrastructure, little electricity and water, a fled middle class, "waters made bitter", millions of displaced innocents, our US world image in the crapper, 3800-plus Americans bloodily killed and God only knows how many Iraqis, and on, and on, and on. What hath Bush wrought?

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» ATTN cable tv subscribers: Posted by: vox persona
Iraq was not a federal nation
Posted by: Intellect on Oct 6, 2007 3:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was a part of the Ottoman Empire until after its breakup after WWI. Saddam Hussein and the Baath Party did not gain control until 1979.

To separate it into its 3 ethnic parts that have been warring with each other (except except under ruthless dictatorship) might quell the civil war going on now. Even if we manage to "pacify" Iraq the civil war will resume when we leave.

I see no reason this should not be explored as a possible solution.

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» RE: Iraq was not a federal nation Posted by: BJ Barrington
» RE: Iraq was not a federal nation Posted by: Ipsi Dixit
» Nationalism is a poison... Posted by: defrag
Colony
Posted by: Sparks56 on Oct 6, 2007 3:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US is treating Iraq as a colony. Of course we would never call it that. We never called our colonies in Central and South America or Asia (Philipines) colonies either but that's what they were. Our military or CIA (Chili, Guatemala) goes in to topple and remove the leader, we establish a "free and democratic" puppet government, complete with military support to fight off commie insurgents or narco-trafficers, (Islamo-facsists) and American business interests go in and soak the place for whatever it is they have that we want. In Iraq everyone knows its all about the oil. In most US colonies it's about the oil. Guatemala was about bananas!! In Chili it's minerals.
If it walks like a colonial imperial power, and talks like a colonial imperial power, it's not a duck

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» A little worse than that Posted by: katz22br
» Yes...But... Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Yes...But... Posted by: katz22br
» RE: Yes...But... Posted by: CatDad
otto
Posted by: otto on Oct 6, 2007 5:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've read statements from Biden recently, insisting that everyone misunderstands his bill and that it does not really call for dividing Iraq into separate parts...more like different states with states' rights, I guess. Does anyone know if there's any truth or merit to this?

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» RE: otto Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: otto Posted by: lamar
Congress needs to be REMINDED as to what happened when Britain split India and Pakistan.
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 6, 2007 6:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reason Pakistan is a wore torn severely povertized nation lies in the fact that the Muslim fanatics were granted their wish of having a separatist nation. Pakistan, after it was formed, was MISused by Britain and the US against USSR even as the USSR was already crumbling from within. I'd hate to see the potential of double and triple the terrorism from this kind of nation spliting. No wonder GOD is punishing America day after day !

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My Brilliant Plan
Posted by: scott balogh on Oct 6, 2007 7:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, declare martial law in the US using private security firms as enforcers. Round up all dissenters and force them into military. Take control of all dissenting governments of the nations in which the US has military bases. Simultaneously take control of all oil producing nations. Do not be anything but deadly serious while being completely honest about intentions. The New World Order (or else).

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what makes Iraq sacred
Posted by: robchapman on Oct 6, 2007 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Iraqi Prime Minister is the Bush puppet in Baghdad, I am surprises that an alternet news article cites his authority.

Yes, Maliki is mad about breaking Iraq up into autonomous regions. How will his goons in the National Police be able to continue the torture and murder campaign against the Sunnis if it enacted?

Beyond that Pakistan, the USSR, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia have all broken without bad results.

In the case of Yugoslavia, NATO forces remain there to protect the Kosavars from depredations by other Bosnians.

If the Iraqi sectarian factions cannot live peacefully with other, but are able to coexist in separate cantons, why is separating them into autonomous regions considered folly?

The priority here is establishing a secure Iraq and getting out.

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» OK, OK, we get it... Posted by: mjabele
» One additional point. Posted by: mjabele
» RE: what makes Iraq sacred Posted by: mjglow
Kinder, gentler ethnic cleansing
Posted by: JayHaden on Oct 6, 2007 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didn't we just watch the Shia militias cleanse two-thirds of Baghdad, using the most grisly methods in the process? Seems to me that "insurgents" are just their mirror image, cleaning out the Sunni home grounds. Why else does Iraq have several million internal and external refugees? American presence has done little to stop the mutual cleansing process. Our absence will only marginally speed it up. So, why not split the country into three (or five or six) parts and use our troops to facilitate the movement of the respective ethnic groups into relatively safe havens? By not doing this in the subcontinent, the British insured a bloodbath when India and Pakistan parted ways. If we leave precipitously, ethnic cleansing and separation will continue, and the bloody process will be on our concsience. If we stay, it should only be to facilitate a kinder, gentler ethnic cleansing. Bring in the UN and bi-lateral agencies to prepare the receiving zones with proper housing and infrastructure. Use our troops (not mercenaries) to support them. Then get the hell out. The government says this would be a disaster, but let's question its sincerity as it encourages (participates in) the cleansing of Baghdad's neighborhoods. It is just extending the life span of the American golden goose. Where did all those palettes of cash go? How many Iraqi politicians did they buy? Not enough yet to insure foreign control of their oil fields, apparently.

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The U.S. has no moral authority in Iraq.
Posted by: synapse on Oct 6, 2007 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The U.S. and its allies have no moral authority to decide Iraq's fate given that they initiated a genocide that has taken the lives of more than 1 million Iraqis (roughly 5% of the population), with millions more displaced, injured and psychologically traumatized, and supported overly harsh sanctions prior to the occupation that resulted in the deaths of over 500,000 children (more than Hiroshima).

The ambitious project for a new Middle East worked on by Pentagon and foreign affairs power players for several years has called for the partitioning of the Middle East into manageable regions that will be governed by the WTO and the new MEFTA trade agreements. Why is it that the U.S. media never delves into the issues surrounding the long term agenda? It seems like simply talking about sectarian strife and not how it came to be that way, what is still fueling it, or how it is being capitalized on, has the effect of making all the superficial discussions feel like "limited hangouts" - giving the electorate a tiny morsel of information to chew on but sequestering the rest of the meal for themselves.

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We Need the Draft
Posted by: ajmartin on Oct 6, 2007 8:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Institute a new draft to bring our troops up to the number required.

We will either 'win' the un-winnable war or be out of Iraq in 6 months due to anti war marches in our streets.

Personally, I have a lot of problems with the idea of an all professional army and this would help solve two problems.

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» RE: We Need the Draft Posted by: DennisDalrymple
What's wrong with splitting it up?
Posted by: Robba29 on Oct 6, 2007 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The different tribes and religious groups have always had traditional territories even while ruled by other (from the Persians to the Abbassids to Ottomans to the French and now us). They haven't been able to choose their own destinies. How about we let them decide...

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Who asked THEM?? Ivory Towers....hmmmm.
Posted by: etisoppa on Oct 6, 2007 9:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK Mr Ivory Tower let me Illuminate your darkness. You guys ( &Gals) like to pretend you don't know certain stuff.

Let me drop some names. Try Bilderberg, NWO, the more rabid Zionists... a consortium of Conspirators ( see The Messianic Legacy Biagent, Leigh L & Lincoln). Part of a master plan... master agenda

Here are the links;
A)
Then to Substantiate that on the Bilderberg:
http://www.sarafrazan.net /to%20the%20people %20of%20free%
20iran.htm ( had to break up URL. Alternet's software said it was too long??)


There is no doubt that the US and the UK were behind the removal of the Shah. The problem for the US/UK was that the leading force inside Iran working to remove the Shah were progressives, led largely by the Iranian Socialist Workers’ Party. Therefore, in November 1978, President Carter named the Bilderberg group’s George Ball, another member of the Trilateral Commission, to head a special White House Iran task force under the National Security Council’s Brzezinski. Ball recommended that Washington drop support for the Shah of Iran and support the fundamentalist Islamic opposition of Khomeini.

On January 16, 1979 he Shah and his wife left Iran at the behest of Prime Minister Shapour Bakhtiar.
Their scheme was based on a detailed study of the phenomenon of Islamic fundamentalism, as presented by British Islamic expert, Dr. Bernard Lewis …

Lewis’s scheme was unveiled at the May 1979 Bilderberg meeting in Austria endorsed the radical Muslim Brotherhood movement behind Khomeini, in order to promote balkanization of the entire Muslim Near East along tribal and religious lines…

The chaos would spread in what he termed an ‘Arc of Crisis,’ which would spill over into the Muslim regions of the Soviet Union .

Then B) http://www.nogw.com/
Zionist plan for expansion

1992 "Defense Planning Guidance"

In 1996 an Israeli think tank headed by Richard Pearle drafted "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm". They outlined the plan to reshape the middle east. The first step is to be the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. A war with Iraq will destabilize the entire Middle East, allowing governments in Syria, Iran, Lebanon, and other countries to be replaced.

In September of 2000 the Project for a New American Century (PNAC).published "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century" gave the details of how their plans are to be carried out. Some key points are:
* Reposition permanently based forces to Southern Europe, Southeast Asia and the Middle East;
* Modernize U.S. forces, including enhancing our fighter aircraft, submarine and surface fleet capabilities;
* Develop and deploy a global missile defense system, and develop a strategic dominance of space by employing spaced based weapons;
* Control the "International Commons" of cyberspace; (The internet)
* Increase defense spending to a minimum of 3.8 percent of gross domestic product, up from the 3 percent currently spent. (Dubya did increase defense spending to exactly 3.8% after he took office.)

"The process of transformation", the plan said, "is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor." (Which we got on 9-11)
Aside

>>>>

If my sources are flat wrong, a propaganda fabrication, please enlighten my then ignorance with your professional standard of documented proof.

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» don't forget A Clean Break ! Posted by: gretavo
I've got an idea
Posted by: willymack on Oct 6, 2007 10:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's ask the Iraqis what we should do with OUR country. I'll bet we'd get some very interesting and original replies.

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The Big Question
Posted by: MAD on Oct 6, 2007 10:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does this partition plan allow for the incorporation of Iran into Iraq's easternmost province or will the newly bombed out Iran absorb an Iraqi province? Or will Israel simply try and administer all provinces.

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Again, the Zionist tail wagging the US dog
Posted by: northsheep on Oct 6, 2007 11:39 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This partition has long been a key option in the plan of Israeli and US Zionists to 1)destroy Iraq as a regional power and 2) take control of its oil. Part of the plan is to pipe oil from Kirkuk via client state Jordan to Israel. An old pipline already exists from Mosul. Northern Iraq already exists as a Western client state under Kurdish control, and its key oil city, Kirkuk, has been ethnically cleansed.

The partition option is surfacing in the most pro-Zionist administration in US history. US Zionists planned a long march to power, which culminated in the current administration, orchestrated by a Zionist establishment that has included Perle, Feith, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Libby and Fleicher in top positions, in league with neocons Rumfeld and Cheney. Most of Congress is subservient to Zionist interests. 60% of Democratic financing comes from Jewish pro-Israel PACs, and 35% of Republican. Zionists have always preferred partition to even a weak coalition govt because it destroys Iraq permanently as a potentially regional power.

All these plans are publicly available information, much of it archived in govt documents that show decades of development.

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Stupid, ineffectual imperialists
Posted by: DennisDalrymple on Oct 6, 2007 12:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After reading about Joe "Gas bag" Biden's wanting to divide
Iraq into three parts and actually getting it passed in the Senate, I found a perfect quote that could apply to this folly, from the late Arthur Schlesinger, Jr's "Journal" edited by his sons. Shortly after the CIA's dumbass Bay of Pigs monumental fiasco, Schlesinger wrote: "We not only look like imperialists...we look like stupid, ineffectual imperialists, which is worst of all."

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The Joy of Meddling
Posted by: Basenjis on Oct 6, 2007 1:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It must be very comforting to those 2.5 million Iraqis who have fled their homeland as well as the 2.2 million refugees wandering around in its wreckage to know that the thieves of their natural resources, the destroyers of life, land, hopes and dreams, are working on plans to split the land up into more manageable areas for the long, long occupation.

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Muddled thinking here, conclusion is correct, though
Posted by: dayahka on Oct 6, 2007 4:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author is somewhat confused and muddles two different topics into one. First, Iraq originated in a meddling superpower (in this case, Britain) cobbling together three incommensurable parts. It would have been far better to have created an independent Kurdistan and a Muslim state, and a division into two parts would have been a better suggestion from Mr. Biden, than three.

Second, the second topic on the body counts does reach a valid conclusion, that as far as the US is concerned, we count and they don't; our relatively few deaths count far more than their millions. This is the saddest part of the whole business.

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his master's voice
Posted by: cold2touch on Oct 6, 2007 4:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congress is only doing what it is paid for

Also, from

Oded Yinon's
"A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties"

Published by the
Association of Arab-American University Graduates, Inc.
Belmont, Massachusetts, 1982
Special Document No. 1
(ISBN 0-937694-56-8)

The plan operates on two essential premises. To survive, Israel must 1) become an imperial regional power, and 2) must effect the division of the whole area into small states by the dissolution of all existing Arab states. Small here will depend on the ethnic or sectarian composition of each state. Consequently, the Zionist hope is that sectarian-based states become Israel's satellites and, ironically, its source of moral legitimation.

This is not a new idea, nor does it surface for the first time in Zionist strategic thinking. Indeed, fragmenting all Arab states into smaller units has been a recurrent theme. This theme has been documented on a very modest scale in the AAUG publication, Israel's Sacred Terrorism (1980), by Livia Rokach. Based on the memoirs of Moshe Sharett, former Prime Minister of Israel, Rokach's study documents, in convincing detail, the Zionist plan as it applies to Lebanon and as it was prepared in the mid-fifties.


A direct quote from Yinon:
(…) Iraq, rich in oil on the one hand and internally torn on the other, is guaranteed as a candidate for Israel's targets. Its dissolution is even more important for us than that of Syria. Iraq is stronger than Syria. In the short run it is Iraqi power which constitutes the greatest threat to Israel. An Iraqi-Iranian war will tear Iraq apart and cause its downfall at home even before it is able to organize a struggle on a wide front against us. Every kind of inter-Arab confrontation will assist us in the short run and will shorten the way to the more important aim of breaking up Iraq into denominations as in Syria and in Lebanon. In Iraq, a division into provinces along ethnic/religious lines as in Syria during Ottoman times is possible. So, three (or more) states will exist around the three major cities: Basra, Baghdad and Mosul, and Shi'ite areas in the south will separate from the Sunni and Kurdish north. It is possible that the present Iranian-Iraqi confrontation will deepen this polarization (…)

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» RE: his master's voice Posted by: GPFrank
» RE: his master's voice Posted by: cold2touch
USA AND ISRAEL MUST SURRENDER, THEY HAVE LOST
Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 6, 2007 5:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all, it is true that Iraq is an artificially created country. Carved out of an Empire, it was only held together by the ruthlessness of Saddam. The fact that splitting her up is now being openly talked about just indicates the strong desire to find an exit strategy quickly. Such a strategy would have been unthinkable a short while ago. No doubt, Bushes sabre rattling with Iran is an attempt to tell the Iranians to keep "hands off" when the split occurs. It is dubious that this approach will work. As for Kurdistan, what will the Turks do? What the USA really needs to do, and what Bush will not do, is sit-down with the countries in the region that are important in the equation. This means, developing workable agreements with Iran, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. But, will this happen? Bush is so busy name-calling and strutting his trumped up macho USA military superiority, that he cannot see the need to surrender (the lost war) and work out the peace treaties.. We will end up instead with the USA semi-leaving Iraq along with a bloodbath of terrible proportions. It could all be avoided. The USA must only accept that they (and Israel) have lost, then the agreements, which could include annexation of parts of Iraq into Iran and Saudi Arabia, can be hammered out. And, much bloodshed averted.

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» the more you spew.... Posted by: gretavo
Split
Posted by: rigpa44 on Oct 6, 2007 6:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, it would help if our arrogant government would ask the people of Iraq if they want to split up their government. No matter how strong we feel it would be "right" to do so, we have to wise up and give the Iraqi people a shot at their own destiny - right or wrong.

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The Balkanization Proposal
Posted by: GPFrank on Oct 6, 2007 6:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In replay to the many remarks on dividing Iraq:

As Josip Broz aka Marshal Tito was the "strong man" who held
the Balkan states together as Yugoslavia, so Saddam was the strong man who held Iraq together. After Tito died in his own bed, factional leaders in the Balkans began to re-balkanize so that our intervention as part of NATO to prevent further "ethnic cleansing" still continues.
Senator Joe Biden, the foreign policy expert led Congress to adopt a proposal as a talking point: as matter of negotiation while we are in the status of dealing with the present
Iraq government, however invented as it is. Yes, it is well to ask. do the Iraqi want that: do they want anything except for us to get out?
But from a political standpoint the one thing that may give the Iraquis hope is that the United States will be ruled by a different political party. Letting federalization be a point of negotiation will at least start the ball rolling to a different strategic concept that will take advantage of the native Iraqi
antipathy to Al-quaida.
As demonstrated by the history of Serbia and the surrounding states federalization may well bring about "ethnic cleansing"
as the Shiites may well take it out on the secularist Sunnites
while the Sunnites in the north will repeat what they did farther south under Saddam. On the other hand federalization as a concept may be a means of solving how to allocate ownership of oil resources. Presently appointed leaders at the top may naturally object to separate states but it may be well to hear more from leaders in the different regions. Perhaps there should be a dual citizenship such as they had in the Soviet Union, :each person was a citizen of their state along with being a citizen of the Soviet Union. But each person should be free to travel from one part to the other,
of what might be called "The Union of Iraq" or "Mesopotamia."
We must work with fresh ideas.

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More or less blood?
Posted by: lamar on Oct 6, 2007 10:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We could give the Iraqis exactly what they want and leave the country. Then they could sort out their own politics without our interference. We have to ask ourselves, can we live with the bloodbath? In America, we sort these things out in a rational (or at least non-violent) way. If we leave Iraq to its own devices, are we prepare to stand on the sidelines and watch the bloodbath? Of course, there's blood flowing right now. Is it a precursor to exponentially more blood when we leave or are they going to cease hostilities when the foreign aggresor is gone?

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Wasn't this plan denied by everyone a few months ago?
Posted by: ericthefool on Oct 6, 2007 11:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I remember "conspiracy theorists" calling this plan out many months ago, only to be called crazy.

Read your damn history people, this Gov't is sinister and evil.

Just pray our Military has the balls to stand up to these fanatics real soon. Ron Paul, reviving our constitution, and praying our military will stand up, is the only hope for this disinegrating culture and country.

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» RE: "Theorists"? Posted by: etisoppa
WHAT ABOUT THE KURDS?
Posted by: defrag on Oct 7, 2007 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Kurds already have their independence. "We" (the U.S.) just haven't recognized it formally yet. If there are good reasons for not doing so, they're certainly not being made by anyone here.

It seems that rather than allow any partition whatsoever, the majority of the heartless posters here would blithely let the Kurds be exterminated after "our" military leaves.

I think the attitude is, as long as it can be blamed on Bush in the long run, who cares?

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Biden's is the only plan on the table, no one else has one.
Posted by: common intelligence on Oct 7, 2007 1:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Senator Biden has been the only one to have a viable plan to "try" to resolve the Bush Screw up. Everything the administration has inplimented has destoyed any other option but blood letting.

It doesn't matter what anyone here says or believes. They system doesn't care. It's a snake with out a head. People that could have made exiting the maheim scene have been fired or resigned. The only barriers to resolution are the hidden powers and Cheney and Bush face. Hell, Condi is even meaningless. And these are the only a'hole sleft in the admin. except for Gates.

So now here we are with 2 options. Biden's and Kucinich's.
Our ideas don't mean a hill-of-beans. Iraq is scewed no matter what. The Iraq Government has been Coup'd by ther US anyway. Iraqis don't even have a say so, out side of killing each other and the "coalition (ha)".

So give Bidden the shot, or give it to Kucinch. otherwise, Hillary is going to keep the world screwed up for at least another 13 years.

Frankly, I've quit caring because no one listens anyway.
Hell, seantor Feinstein is even a traitor now. She won't support impeachment, and if democrates won't impliment real change, what chance is there for any restitution? The government doesn't give a rats ass what the people think or want.

Screw the whole bunch. The US is not any longer. It's just become a giant Wal-mart of consumming rats.
China and Japan own us and you all have given it to them by buying there materialistic, planned obsolesent crap the corporate/economic model that has forced us all into living within.

What a stupid frigging mess these facists have made of the country and Iraq and just about everything in the name of freedom......Don't blame it on any 911 hijacker either or you'll just piss me off!

This nation has been screwed by only one thing and planned to have been done so too by the neocons to bring about the New World DisOrder.

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The Brits cobbled "Iraq" together as part of the booty
Posted by: dogwhisperer on Oct 7, 2007 2:57 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they got on the demise of the Ottoman Empire at the end of World War I. It never was a "nation" in any sense that we understand nationhood. It never had "self-determination" in any sense that we understand that term, either. I