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War on Iraq

Iraq Is About to Become a Lot Worse

By Chris Hedges, Truthdig. Posted August 7, 2007.


The sad truth about Iraq in the near future is that it will get much, much worse, whether American troops stay or leave.
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The war in Iraq is about to get worse -- much worse. The Democrats' decision to let the war run its course, while they frantically wash their hands of responsibility, means that it will sputter and stagger forward until the mission collapses. This will be sudden. The security of the Green Zone, our imperial city, will be increasingly breached. Command and control will disintegrate. And we will back out of Iraq humiliated and defeated. But this will not be the end of the conflict. It will, in fact, signal a phase of the war far deadlier and more dangerous to American interests.

Iraq no longer exists as a unified country. The experiment that was Iraq, the cobbling together of disparate and antagonistic patches of the Ottoman Empire by the victorious powers in the wake of World War I, belongs to the history books. It will never come back. The Kurds have set up a de facto state in the north, the Shiites control most of the south and the center of the country is a battleground.

There are 2 million Iraqis who have fled their homes and are internally displaced. Another 2 million have left the country, most to Syria and Jordan, which now has the largest number of refugees per capita of any country on Earth. An Oxfam report estimates that one in three Iraqis are in need of emergency aid, but the chaos and violence is so widespread that assistance is impossible. Iraq is in a state of anarchy. The American occupation forces are one more source of terror tossed into the caldron of suicide bombings, mercenary armies, militias, massive explosions, ambushes, kidnappings and mass executions. But wait until we leave.

It was not supposed to turn out like this. Remember all those visions of a democratic Iraq, visions peddled by the White House and fatuous pundits like Thomas Friedman and the gravel-voiced morons who pollute our airwaves on CNN and Fox News? They assured us that the war would be a cakewalk. We would be greeted as liberators. Democracy would seep out over the borders of Iraq to usher in a new Middle East. Now, struggling to salvage their own credibility, they blame the debacle on poor planning and mismanagement.

There are probably about 10,000 Arabists in the United States -- people who have lived for prolonged periods in the Middle East and speak Arabic. At the inception of the war you could not have rounded up more than about a dozen who thought this was a good idea. And I include all the Arabists in the State Department, the Pentagon and the intelligence community. Anyone who had spent significant time in Iraq knew this would not work. The war was not doomed because Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz did not do sufficient planning for the occupation. The war was doomed, period. It never had a chance. And even a cursory knowledge of Iraqi history and politics made this apparent.

This is not to deny the stupidity of the occupation. The disbanding of the Iraqi army; the ham-fisted attempt to install the crook and, it now turns out, Iranian spy Ahmed Chalabi in power; the firing of all Baathist public officials, including university professors, primary school teachers, nurses and doctors; the failure to secure Baghdad and the vast weapons depots from looters; allowing heavily armed American units to blast their way through densely populated neighborhoods, giving the insurgency its most potent recruiting tool -- all ensured a swift descent into chaos.


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Chris Hedges is the former Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times and the author of "War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning." His latest book is "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America.

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What choice do the Democrats have
Posted by: Nedtheredhead on Aug 7, 2007 12:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have noticed, not only in this article, but in other articles at Alternet and other places, this new attack on the Democrats for not taking action against the Iraq war. How can the Democrats do anything while Bush has the veto, the Senate is still primarily a Republican house and most voting Americans are still supporting the status quo? I am assuming it is the intention of the Democrats to take action AFTER the Presidential election next year.'
As you know I am not American, and I may have missed something here, so I would be more than happy for someone to enlighten me if I am incorrect.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Well put Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: Well put Posted by: solrev
» Nice try Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: Nice try Posted by: solrev
» RE: Nice try Military build-up Posted by: sasquuatch55
» solrev Posted by: dover23
» RE: Well put... sort of Posted by: MTguy
» RE: Well put Posted by: EinMD
» RE: What choice do the Democrats have Posted by: condor60s@hotm
» RE: What choice do the Democrats have Posted by: bdunn1@tds.net
» RE: Herd mentality Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Herd mentality- terrorist attack Posted by: sasquuatch55
» I'm not sure I agree Posted by: NWCrow
» Excuses...Excuses... Posted by: CatDad
» There's action and then there's *action*. Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming
» Impeachment & Purse Strings Posted by: EKSwitaj
Why boys boys!
Posted by: TT5 on Aug 7, 2007 12:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The FUNS just getting started!

FUN

FUN

FUN

And even MORE FUN!

FOREVER;=))

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» And lets not forget! Posted by: TT5
» fabulous bumper sticker, Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming
But i only wonder
Posted by: TT5 on Aug 7, 2007 12:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who is going to pay the bills?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hmmmmmmmm.......
Posted by: mizipi on Aug 7, 2007 1:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The warmongers who profit from this war will call this article "stupid". The warmongers who are too cowardly to go to Iraq, will sit at their computers and condemn those of us who are against the war. The Iraqis will suffer, except the rich Iraqis who live outside of their country. How many posters on AlterNet will disagree with this article? Only the cowards, warmongers and totally ignorant. What happened in the USA to end the Vietnam War? Whatever it was , we need for it to happen again. Last November, many of us thought the political process of congressional elections might do something about it, but what has Congress done since last January. The war continues. People die and suffer and the profits for the suppliers of the war increase. Whether true or not, Jesus did not fight back. Ghandi believed in non-violence. What happened to them? I enjoy solving puzzles, but I have no clue as to how to solve this problem.

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» RE: Hmmmmmmmm....... Posted by: paschn
» Ending Vietnam Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming
» RE: Hmmmmmmmm....... Posted by: Badger1492
The End of the United States
Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 7, 2007 1:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Iraq has done to the United States what Afghanistan did to the late Soviet Union. Remember how we watched in glee as the Russkies self destructed? Somewhere right now, there are a lot of elderly, retired commies laughing their heads off.

Here me out: the salvagability of any American credibility depends on one thing and one thing only - that George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and the tidal wave of walking, talking excrement that comprises this digusting administration are tried and imprisoned for the rest of their lives for the crimes they have committed against humanity in general and the men, women and little children of Iraq in particular.

George W. Bush must not be allowed a comfy retirement in Crawford, Texas; to live out his final days cheerfully attending to his library. There will be no Bush 43 Presidential Library. His papers will be housed somewhere in the National Archives. Bush will end up being buried in the basement of his father's library - in some unmarked corner where he will decompose for all eternity unnoticed and unmourned. Who knows where poor Laura will end up being interred....

America's credibility absolutely depends on our not letting this dispicable war criminal live out his retirement as a respected "elder statesman". He needs to be held accountable for the crimes - too numerous to be catalogued - he has committed. Sadly, Dick Cheney will be able to avoid the same, well deserved fate. Given the precarious state of his health, the old bastard is going to drop dead any day now. Someone please pass me a hanky.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

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» RE: The End of the United States Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» "the people"support impeachment Posted by: fearless flower
» RE: The End of the United States Posted by: Badger1492
» They Don't Care Posted by: CatDad
» The latest on Laura Bush Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: The latest on Laura Bush Posted by: Tom Degan
mismanagement.?. no a great lie
Posted by: wleming on Aug 7, 2007 3:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
mr. hedges continues to say what the corporate press will not allow... but please, chris, remember that the u.s. was lied into this war, by the very people you hold incompetent.
it is not enough to say that the war was mismanaged and made worse.... its very existance puts the lie to american effort to promote democracy worldwide. iraq has been, not just a disaster for the u.s. but for the world. and an image of the russians sitting by gleefully watching is more than a bit cold warish... but begs the question that they are very fearful of the blow back the u.s. is now looking at.... worldwide.

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» Incoherent thougts Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: I guess you are right Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
Warmongers, Iraq, and Iran
Posted by: Roy Eidelson on Aug 7, 2007 4:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From a psychological perspective, the Bush administration has promoted the misguided and destructive war in Iraq by targeting five core concerns that often govern our lives--concerns about vulnerability, injustice, distrust, superiority, and helplessness. Looking ahead, the continuing occupation of Iraq--or an attack on Iran--will likely be sold to us in much the same way. I examine these warmongering appeals--and how to counter them--in a 10-minute video entitled “Resisting the Drums of War”available for viewing HERE.

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» RE: Warmongers, Iraq, and Iran Posted by: Ghoulman
Dont worry boys!
Posted by: TT5 on Aug 7, 2007 4:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Democracy and Iraq
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Aug 7, 2007 4:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"They assured us that the war would be a cakewalk. We would be greeted as liberators."

You forgot to mention that it wasn't just the pundits that said this. It was the Dick, Mr. Cheney who assured us of this SEVERAL times, all while knowing it was a total and abject lie.

Regardless, you've pointed out the most salilent points, the most important of which is that history is not on the side of Bush's grand plans to turn that region into some bastion of glorious democracy. Indeed, every step of the way everything Bush has told us about Iraq, terrorism in Iraq, terrorism in the Middle East, insurgents... you name it. He has been wrong, wrong, wrong.

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War Criminals
Posted by: packofwolves on Aug 7, 2007 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush Administration should be arrested and tried as war criminals. IMPEACH BUSH AND HIS CRONIES.

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Hedges is a tuth teller
Posted by: Dee1276 on Aug 7, 2007 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chris Hedges has a clarity of vision and grasp of the facts that is sorely needed in the media. He should be syndicated and his columns should appear in every major newspaper. He should be invited to talk on PBS and CNN and MSNBC. "Shoulds" don't matter.
Maybe all of us who appreciate his articles should barrage these news sources with copies. I'm going to send a copy to the Columbus Dispatch (aka Columbus (Ohio)Disgrace).

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Bush usurped Congress's constitutional power to declare war
Posted by: Suzon on Aug 7, 2007 4:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by talking it up (on Bush's behalf, Colin Powell seriously perjured himself in his presentation to the UN).

In 2003 Bush, despite his personal inadequacies, was, as commander in chief and president, an authority figure. Stanley Milgram's classic experiments showed that almost anyone will do what an authority figure tells them to. This is why otherwise decent people will drop bombs on civilians, despite their knowledge of the human suffering that will be caused. And why Congress enabled the neo-con strategy.

Could we not require anyone entering public office to pass a test that would insure that they understood something about human behavior?

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Marshall Law
Posted by: SuGee on Aug 7, 2007 4:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll bet that before his presidency is over, he'll (probably on the recommendation of Unka Dicky) declare marshall law and never leave office. By the way, he likes to torture people and he's said that GOD talks to him. Thanks Barbara, you did a wonderful job raising a serial killer.

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» RE: Marshall Law Posted by: ninethgirl
» MARTIAL Law Posted by: MadFlacc
» That drives me nuts, but Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming
» RE: That drives me nuts, but Posted by: Badger1492
» RE: MARTIAL Law Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Marshall Law Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Marshall Law Posted by: dadux
An exercise in madness
Posted by: Democritus on Aug 7, 2007 5:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who has read T.E. Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom knew that what was fashioned into Iraq was not really a country, but many families and tribes. Loyalties shifted with the desert winds. Saddam Hussein held these disparate groups together with brute force. Bush's invasion cut the Gordian knot and everything unraveled.

Now what the generals are saying is that we have paid too much in blood and treasure to turn back. What they advocate is a mad exercise in which we lose more blood and treasure; and for what? As Hedges points out, the Russians and the Chinese sit on the sidelines, the former enjoying the payback we're getting for our aid to the Mujadeen in Afghanistan--aid that hastened the demise of the Soviet Union--the latter continuing to finance our occupation of Iraq by buying our paper and therefore putting our economy at increasing risk.

Mr. Hedges may be mistaken on one point--the last remaining item in Pandora's box, which is hope. The people who inhabited the land that was briefly transformed into Iraq managed to live together in relative peace before the Western powers intervened because of their lust for the resources lying under the desert sands. Our military occupation might be a necessary condition for the increasing violence. If that condition is removed, the situation may get better, not worse. Of course, we will lose the oil; but it was never ours to take.

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» RE: An exercise in madness Posted by: mommy64
It IS our fault
Posted by: Urstrly on Aug 7, 2007 5:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a tragedy this war is! Hedges is right that the blood of many, many more Iraqis is on our hands, not to mention a chaotic civil situation. It's not that we are obligated to stay until the Iraqis work things out, but whether we can be convinced to stay until George Bush has meandered back to his ranch to wait for history to redeem him. Talk about delusions! We need to recalibrate our foreign policy to take into account the damage we've done; too much has been undertaken on some blind notion that this was good for Israel or to secure oil for our SUVs. The only entity for whom this war has been win-win is Halliburton and its subsidiaries, and I have no idea how we can bring them in hand.

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Boys boys!
Posted by: TT5 on Aug 7, 2007 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The FUN hasn't even started yet;=))

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"Lions for Lambs"
Posted by: lively56 on Aug 7, 2007 6:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is the title for a movie coming out in Nov. this year. I don't know if any of you have seen the trailor or not, but Robert Redford tells his son that the problem is not the people who started this war, the problem is us, all of of us, who do nothing to stop it. How true.

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» RE: "Lions for Lambs" Posted by: mommy64
relax everything is on schedule
Posted by: solrev on Aug 7, 2007 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“It will, in fact, signal a phase of the war far deadlier and more dangerous to American interests.”
I am really tired of this American interests in Iraq BS, we have no real interest in Iraq, that is why we can not win. There is nothing to win.

“Democracy would seep out over the borders of Iraq to usher in a new Middle East.” The Middle East is full of democracies they are flawed because the people keep making choices we do not like or the elections are not free. The US has the most flawed democracy of all. Elections are basically free unfortunately the choices are being completely controlled.

“This anarchy could end with foreign forces, including Iran and Turkey, carving up the battered carcass of Iraq. No matter what happens, many, many Iraqis are going to die. And it is our fault.” I think Americans greatly underestimate the power of the Iraqi people and the true power of Islam. We will leave a united Iraq; it is time to declare victory and leave. The American people love winners so be careful what you wish for.

“Blessed are they that mourn, but we will all surely die”.

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Forest vs. trees
Posted by: SolitonMan on Aug 7, 2007 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem we really need to address is a global lack of vision. Back in the day, the common wisdom was that the earth was flat. Everyone "knew" it was flat, and it took "crazy" people to prove that this common wisdom was false. Likewise with the "knowledge" that the earth was the center of the universe. Sometimes the common wisdom needs to be held at arms' length and examined in detail.

Today we suffer from a similar delusion. Our fundamental social basis is delusional, and that delusion has led to the creation of an immoral society. Our delusion: humans are the center of the universe. We don't teach it explicitly, but it is implicitly taught in every creation myth for every "religion". God created the heavens and the earth, the creatures of the land, sea and air, and finally MAN, the pinnacle of God's achievement. Or so the common wisdom goes.

Despite the intricacy, detail and subtlety of the human experience, life is, simply, physically, stardust driven into motion by sunlight. All the trappings of ego with which we decorate our world mean nothing to the fundamental physical nature of existence. Fundamentals that can be neither ignored nor resisted without catastrophic result.

Because of our delusion of an egocentric world, we take actions, like the Iraq war and so many others, that at their basis presume that all that matters in existence are the choices made by humans on earth. This is false. In fact, if all human life on earth were to vanish, the experience of Life would most likely improve dramatically for the remaining lifeforms. Humans are not essential to the existence of Life. Life is essential to the existence of humans.

Yet on we forge, step after step down the delusional path. Nothing will change about human society unless the fundamental delusions which underlie it are identified and purged. Truth alone will allow for real problem solving. Anything else is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Because of our delusion of the place of the human species in the universe, we also have a delusional understanding of morality. So many use this term as a cudgel to bash those whose behavior differs from their own. We are all immoral, since we are all willing participants in an immoral system. But to understand that, one needs to understand what it means to be moral, which, fortunately is easy enough to grasp, but basically impossible to achieve in our society. Morality means taking only what you need from Life.

Shocking? I think if you follow the logic you'll see that it's true. Necessity IS morality. And because God is very smart, necessity is also happiness. In most of our societies, the idea that you can "follow your dreams" as a means of achieving a happy life is pushed endlessly in all forms of media. But the fact is that getting what you want is as often a disappointment as a source of pleasure. How many people have NOT experienced disappointment? If you say you have, I don't believe you. I think that it's one of the common human experiences. Disappointment arises because experience fails to meet expectation.

Life is simple. Take only what you need and you'll be moral. Have what you need and you'll be happy. Humans endlessly complicate the situation with their egotistical self-indulgence, by choosing to believe in delusional ideas in order to rationalize their immoral behavior.

What does any of this have to do with the war in Iraq? Simply that in order to solve our planet-wide problems - REALLY solve them, not cover them up or distract or create newer, larger problems - we must consider and adopt a completely radical social paradigm.

At least, that's my experience.

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» RE: Need versus greed Posted by: scott balogh
» RE: Forest vs. trees Posted by: solrev
» RE: Forest vs. trees Posted by: wonkywriter
» RE: Forest vs. trees Posted by: AsteroidMiner
ANTI BUSH CONTROLLED BY NEO CONS
Posted by: geodamontodd on Aug 7, 2007 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AS LONG AS WE ARE HAVING OUR FOREIGN POLICY DICTATED BY A SMALL GROUP OF SPECIAL INTEREST PERSONNEL (IN THIS CASE NEO CONS) WE AMERICANS ARE GETTING THE SHAFT. EVERYONE KNOWS WHY THE NEO CONS WANTED IRAQ, BUSH WENT ALONG WITH IT BASED ON THE IDIOTIC PRESUMPTION THAT HE AND HIS FAMILY AND FRIENDS WOULD GET RICHER AND MORE POWERFUL BY SECURING OIL AND SELLING ARMS. WELL, THEY WERE CERTAINLY RIGHT ABOUT INCREASING THEIR WEALTH, BUT AT WHAT A HORRENDOUS COST. BUSH'S ACTIONS AND INACTIONS IN THE MID EAST AT THE BEHEST OF THE SHADOW GOVERNMENT (WE ALL KNOW BUSH COULDN'T FIGURE OUT SUCH A PLAN ALL BY HIS LONESOME) BUT HE COULD BE AND WAS HANDILY USED BY THE SUB-HUMANS WHO WANT TO RUN THE NEW WORLD ORDER. BUSH HAS DISGRACED THE ONCE GREAT USA AND THE CHIX WILL COME HOME TO ROOST IN WAYS SO TERRIBLE THEY HAVE NOT YET EVEN BEEN IMAGINED. WAY TO GO GEORGE!

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» Money money money! Posted by: TT5
» You sound like Jesus, TT5 Posted by: mizipi
Disillusioned?
Posted by: shangrilalad on Aug 7, 2007 6:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Disillusioned?

Capitalism was our state religion, not democracy right from the get-go. It’s a dogma pounded into our heads from birth by everyone around us. Maybe our godlike founding fathers didn’t call it capitalism, but they all understood the concept and embraced as their founding principle: “What’s in it for me.”

A principle as old as man.

Our founding fathers were all rich or well connected white men who, first and foremost, individually cut the best deal they could for themselves. That bit about “We the People,” looked good on paper, but the notion of true democracy horrified them. They were the “Enlightened Elite,” and by golly, they would rule the country as they saw fit. Nothing has changed since then. The Devine Right of Kings, still holds.

Our “Enlightened Elite” still rule by hook and by crook because most Americans still believe the myths and capitalistic religion they’ve been taught all their lives.

“We the People,” don’t rule. We are governed by representatives who don’t represent us, and seldom have. Franklin D. Roosevelt was one of the few exceptions. Most of our elected leaders see and treat us like cattle, and they make an effort to protect their investments, but they won’t coddle us with things like Universal Healthcare. That would be too expensive. War on the other hand is so profitable, that they can suffer the loss of a few head of cattle. What’s the loss of a few million cattle compared to Billons of Dollars in profits?

So there we have the paradigm.

We are however, the first generation to get a peek at what’s really happening.

Based on what you’ve seen, heard and learned, are you feeling, disillusioned?

It’s a bummer, isn’t it?

Sometimes it becomes imperative for “We the People” to lop-off the heads of the ever increasing number of “Enlightened Elite.” We can only bow down to so many gods.

.

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» General Strike Posted by: Gonnuts
» RE: Disillusioned? Posted by: Jbuuty
Enough of blaming the victim!
Posted by: jbello on Aug 7, 2007 6:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no reason to believe the country would have fallen apart if we hadn't destroyed it. Our country would fall apart under the kind of dire circumstances we have created in Iraq. Occupation is an evil business. We are the problem in Iraq, not the Iraqis. The soldiers don't want to fight with us because our soldiers don't understand, and don't respect their social and political boundaries. Our leaders won't accept any decision from their government that doesn't reflect their own fantasy for the area. No. They don't want to give us their oil. Sure, the Kurds want to use this upheaval to have their own countrly. However, if that were to occur, they would then go to war against Turkey, another ally of ours. And yes, under the current circumstances, Iran is their best hope for help in rebuilding.

There are forces in Iraq that have been working for an internal solution and an end to the sectarian violence and we have consistently worked against them every step of the way. Muqtada al Sadr has been negotiating with the Sunni Council and was making headway before our people decided to undermine him every step of the way. Why, because he doesn't want the country to be occupied. He wants us to go. And he's right. If we leave right now, they might still have a chance.

I get sick of hearing about how the Iraqis are the problem. The Iraqi government (which we approved and selected) is weak and falling apart. The Iraqi army is lazy and incompetent. We destroy every independent asset they acquire, because if we can't control it, they can't have it. Then we wonder why they don't show independence in their governance. Well, they hate us and with good reason. They don't trust us and with good reason.

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War criminals - never
Posted by: ps2987 on Aug 7, 2007 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm pretty sure you're dreaming if you think that the US govt will ever declare Bush and Cheney as war criminals. But I certainly agree that they should not be allowed to live out their lives as respected former govt officials. In reality, I think the best we could hope for is for them to be hounded, harassed and protested against at ever public function that they attend for the rest of their lives. They certainly deserve that much.

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» RE: War criminals - never Posted by: VZEQICVA
hold up
Posted by: hellofriends on Aug 7, 2007 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ok. yea. it's a horrible situation. we know. articles like this reinforce my disturbing suspicion that many people who are against this war are actually HAPPY when they hear news about how badly it's going in iraq. car bomb = "bush is bad." 17 killed in market = "see i was right." it's like we're rooting for failure because it supports our particular ideological perspective. would actual and undeniable progress in iraq---if it were to occur---be greeted with disappointment by anyone here?

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» RE: hold up Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: hold up Posted by: leafsong1
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» RE: hold up Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: hold up Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: hold up Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: hold up Posted by: hellofriends
IT WILL HAPPEN WITH RON PAUL OR DENNIS KUCINICH. YOU CAN'T...
Posted by: poppop_schell on Aug 7, 2007 7:42 AM   
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COUNT ON ANYONE ELSE. Take a look at what Ron Paul sai on the GOP Debate this past Sunday. The Ron Paul Revoltion is gaining ground with many Democrats like myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhXc7LiPlsw

ronpaul2008.com

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» Kucinich/Paul Posted by: Gonnuts