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War on Iraq

Did the U.S. Lie About Using Cluster Bombs in Iraq?

By Nick Turse, Tomdispatch.com. Posted May 25, 2007.


At a time when many nations are moving toward banning the use of cluster munitions, which pose a more serious threat to civilians than any other type of weaponry, the U.S. opposes new limits of any kind.
05252007story
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A shorter version of this piece appears in this week's Nation Magazine.

Did the U.S. military use cluster bombs in Iraq in 2006 and then lie about it? Does the U.S. military keep the numbers of rockets and cannon rounds fired from its planes and helicopters secret because more Iraqi civilians have died due to their use than any other type of weaponry?

These are just two of the many unanswered questions related to the largely uncovered air war the U.S. military has been waging in Iraq.

What we do know is this: Since the major combat phase of the war ended in April 2003, the U.S. military has dropped at least 59,787 pounds of air-delivered cluster bombs in Iraq -- the very type of weapon that Marc Garlasco, the senior military analyst at Human Rights Watch (HRW) calls, "the single greatest risk civilians face with regard to a current weapon that is in use." We also know that, according to expert opinion, rockets and cannon fire from U.S. aircraft may account for most U.S. and coalition-attributed Iraqi civilian deaths and that the Pentagon has restocked hundreds of millions of dollars worth of these weapons in recent years.

Unfortunately, thanks to an utter lack of coverage by the mainstream media, what we don't know about the air war in Iraq so far outweighs what we do know that anything but the most minimal picture of the nature of destruction from the air in that country simply can't be painted. Instead, think of the story of U.S. air power in Iraq as a series of tiny splashes of lurid color on a largely blank canvas.

Cluster Bombs

Even among the least covered aspects of the air war in Iraq, the question of cluster-bomb (CBU) use remains especially shadowy. This is hardly surprising. After all, at a time when many nations are moving toward banning the use of cluster munitions -- at a February 2007 conference in Oslo, Norway, 46 of 48 governments represented supported a declaration for a new international treaty and ban on the weapons by 2008 -- the U.S. stands with China, Israel, Pakistan, and Russia in opposing new limits of any kind.

Little wonder. The U.S. military has a staggering arsenal of these weapons. According to a recent Human Rights Watch report, the Army holds 88% of the Pentagon's CBU inventory -- at least 638.3 million of the cluster bomblets that are stored inside each cluster munition; the Air Force and Navy, according to Department of Defense figures, have 22.2 million and 14.7 million of the bomblets, respectively. And even these numbers are considered undercounts by experts.

A cluster bomb bursts above the ground, releasing hundreds of smaller, deadly submunitions or "bomblets" that increase the weapon's kill radius causing, as Garlasco puts it, "indiscriminate effects." It's a weapon, he notes, that "cannot distinguish between a civilian and a soldier when employed because of its wide coverage area. If you're dropping the weapon and you blow your target up you're also hitting everything within a football field. So to use it in proximity to civilians is inviting a violation of the laws of armed conflict."

Worse yet, U.S. cluster munitions have a high failure rate. A sizeable number of dud bomblets fall to the ground and become de facto landmines which, Garlasco points out, are "already banned by most nations on this planet." Garlasco adds: "I don't see how any use of the current U.S. cluster bomb arsenal in proximity to civilian objects can be defended in any way as being legal or legitimate."

In an email message earlier this year, a U.S. Central Command Air Forces (CENTAF) spokesman told this reporter that "there were no instances" of CBU usage in Iraq in 2006. But military documents suggest this might not be the case.

Last year, Titus Peachey of the Mennonite Central Committee -- an organization that has studied the use of cluster munitions for more than 30 years -- filed a Freedom of Information Act request concerning the U.S. military's use of cluster bombs in Iraq since "major combat operations" officially ended in that country. In their response, the Air Force confirmed that 63 CBU-87 cluster bombs were dropped in Iraq between May 1, 2003 and August 1, 2006. A CENTAF spokesman contacted for confirmation that none of these were dropped on or after January 1, 2006, offered no response. His superior officer, Lt. Col. Johnn Kennedy, the Deputy Director of CENTAF Public Affairs, similarly ignored this reporter's requests for clarification.

These 12,726 BLU-97 bomblets -- each CBU-87 contains 202 BLU-97s or "Combined Effects Bombs" (CEBs) which have anti-personnel, anti-tank, and incendiary capabilities or "kill mechanisms" -- dropped since May 2003 are, according to statistics provided by Human Rights Watch, in addition to almost two million cluster submunitions used by coalition forces in Iraq in March and April 2003.


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Nick Turse is the associate editor and research director of Tomdispatch.com. He has written for the Los Angeles Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, the Nation, the Village Voice, and regularly for Tomdispatch.

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View:
They lie about everything else...
Posted by: Aussie Kim on May 25, 2007 12:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...so what's the big surprise?

Hell, they even lie about hating Al Qaida - they're currently making deals with Sunni Terrorist groups (that have links to Al Qaida) because they're so desperate to conquer the Shiites. (ie: Iran and bits of Iraq).

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» DEMOCRATS=Pussy Rubber Stampers! Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» it's all that Posted by: apophenia_monkey
Dud Bomblets
Posted by: civilized european on May 25, 2007 1:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a large number of cluster bomb bomblets are dud you have to question the qualitity of American workmanship. renowned throughout the world for the quality of its products the USA has led the way and this unfortunately may be an indication of its decline. What is the world to think? Why the American military does not hold the manufacturers to account I do not know, they cannot be getting a good deal and somebody has to be held responsible. Maybe they could out source the manufacture of the bomblets to Tawain or Korea and do the final assembly in the USA. I`m sure they would get a more reliable/cheaper product and better customer service. Another alternative is to sort the likely duds and sell them as seconds to say impoverished African Nations thereby keeping the jobs in the USA.

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» RE: Dud Bomblets Posted by: HeroesAll
» Exactly Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Dud Bomblets- Lebanon Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
Lets have a report...
Posted by: adp3d on May 25, 2007 3:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...on last summers Hezballah/Isreali conflict where IDF dropped cluster bombs on Lebanon in the final week of the conflict when Condi Rice was waiting to see if Isreal could best Hezballah before declaring a cease fire.

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» Bravo Universal! Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
U.S. military leaders have always been dishonest at times, but now it’s different.
Posted by: HughScott on May 25, 2007 3:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I’m a Vietnam veteran who resigned from the Air Force in 1966 and became a war protester because President Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident. In 1969, Nixon lied about B52s carpet bombing Cambodia. Years before those deliberate misrepresentations, the first president I voted for, General Eisenhower (I’m 71), lied about U2s over-flying the Soviet Union.

With that kind of background, we shouldn’t be surprised that Commander-in-Chief Bush and other U.S. military leaders have lied about Iraq as well, but this time it’s different.

Instead of the isolated deceptions that occurred during the Eisenhower, Johnson and Nixon administrations, which some historians argue were inspired by patriotism, George W.’s dishonesty is clearly self-serving and politically motivated. Consider the following list of White House transgressions, distortions and outright lies:

So-called Iraqi WMDs.
"Immediate" threats.
Yellow-cake uranium.
Aluminum tubes.
Mobile biological weapons labs.
Ties to Al Qaeda.
A 9/11 connection.
The Valerie Plame/CIA leak case.
Secret overseas prisons.
Torture.
Warrantless wiretaps of United States citizens.
Phony Al Qaeda plots.
False claims that America is safer now from terrorism than before 9/11.
Concealing the real cost of Gulf War 2.
Understating Iraqi civilian casualties.
Embellishing U.S. successes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Misrepresenting the only wartime tax cut in American history.
Economically betraying senior citizens, the middle class and working poor.
Downplaying global warming.
Bush going on vacation during Hurricane Katrina while fellow Americans drowned in New Orleans.
Claiming wounded GIs got the best treatment possible at Walter Reed.
Preventing the coffins of returning GIs from being seen by the public.
Hiding injured Iraq veterans from the press after landing stateside.
Declassifying intelligence information for political purposes.
Firing U.S. attorneys for the same reason.

Add to the list the falsified presidential biography I found on a State Department website in 2004 and reported to the Boston Globe. You can learn about the “Bogus Bush Bio Caper” on my nonprofit investigative website, King-George.biz -- the only one with hardcopy proof of White House corruption (Shrub’s falsified personal history).

Tragically, at the cost of 29,000 American casuaties in Iraq with many more to come plus the untold loss of civilian lives and limbs there, President Bush continues to be a dishonest military leader.

Just yesterday, at his White House press conference, he said if we withdrew from Iraq, Al Qaeda would use it as a center for international terrorist operations. That is patently false. Because of the death and destruction Al Qaeda fighters have caused Iraqi Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds, they hate Bin Laden’s boys with a passion and will target them for extinction after our troops are no longer in country.

On a Richter scale of treasonous deceptions, compared to the ones by Dub-ya that keep us quagmired in Iraq, the cluster bomb lies are barely a blip.

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Class! Class! Class! Class!
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive on May 25, 2007 9:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow! You included the word class twenty-three times in your response. And I was foolish enough to complement you on improving in your earlier post. The Manchurian Programming is thorough, isn't it? Is it sorta like a tick...you involuntarily throw it in when typing? You are the definite King of Klass...err..Class. let's all hope that you are able to find some Ritalin-like substance that will help you.

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» RE: Class! Class! Class! Class! Posted by: Sobaka120
» RE: Class! Class! Class! Class! Posted by: Universal
Short of the mark.
Posted by: Lincoln fan on May 25, 2007 10:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would only stipulate, it goes beyond the issue of Iraq, it goes to our foreign policies,

The corrupting mechanism is money. Specifically, the money used by the corporate establishment to finance the election campaigns of both parties and the millions of dollars spent on lobbies that are generally opposed to the interests of the working class. It goes beyond foreign policy it permeates the entire fabrlc of our government.

"We, the people," don't control our government, "We, the people", aren't represented by our government, and "We the people", live under the original American tyranny, "Taxation without representation".

It's useless to rant against the Republicans and replace them with Democrats. Our government is upside down, we're ruled by a minority.
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative.

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War Crimes
Posted by: Tom Degan on May 25, 2007 4:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who still insists on claiming that the president of the United States is not a war criminal is either not paying attention or is taking stupid pills. The list of war criminals would have to be extended to Attorney General, Alberto Gonzalez who deemed the provisions in the Geneva Convention that outlawed torture as "quaint".

Just think what kind of example it will send to the rest of the world if this disgusting administration is able to get away with their crimes against humanity! Will we allow George W. Bush to fade away to a comfty retirement in Crawford, Texas? Or will the people of America (and the world) insist that he be severely punished for what he has dome to the people of Iraq - not to mention his fellow countrymen?

I'm still enough of an optimist to believe that the choice is still ours.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

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» RE: War Crimes Posted by: edraven
» RE: War Crimes Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: War Crimes Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: War Crimes Posted by: Lincoln fan
» fair enough Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Good for you! Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Good for you! Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Good for you! Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Good for you! Posted by: brasilaron
» Crawford? Posted by: brasilaron
Let's see....
Posted by: paschn on May 25, 2007 5:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This country was founded on a hustle perpetrated on it's first army, i.e. fight for us, and we'll give you land and mules. War ends,....our new government tells the original drones, "sorry, no land or mules for you, we sold the land in question at a discount to the folks with money to pay the war debt....the ones who hustled you into fighting the Brits.
They lied another generation of drones into attacking our latin neighbor to the South, (a future president later said in his memoirs that he was, for the rest of his life, ashamed of his role in it because it was the most blatant example of a huge nation "bullying" a much weaker nation he had ever seen. U.S. Grant, on the "war" with Mexico ).
They allowed, ( or asked) Hearst and Pulitzer to print a series of lies to another generation of drones about Spain. So many and so good, the drones themselves demmanded our "leaders" attack.
They lied yet ANOTHER generation of drones into attacking the Philipines, ( do you see a pattern here, "our boys" jumping still another vastly weaker "enemy"? ), for nothing more than tariff free suger. Some history books, not published in the land of the fiends, oops, free. put the slaughter toll at 600, 000 human beings. Then we have drones plus Gulf of Tonkin = Vietnam, drones plus lies about reasons for attacking Iraq the first time = 200,000 dead Iraqis in the early '90's, drones plus corporate media, lying draft-dodging swine = freedom for Iraq. Some reliable souces say close to 1,000,000 "freed" to date. This horrible world threat is roughly 1/50th the size of the land of the fiends, oops, sorry again. with less than 1/10th the people. and now yet ANOTHER batch of drones are straining at the bit to allow "our heroes" to attack ANOTHER tiny country, Iran, and teach them democracy as practiced by the U.S.
Other than all being accomplished through lies to drones, the only constant here is chest puffing, arrogant drones and countries that have LESS than a snow-ball's chance in hell of protecting themselves. A nation of (savage) sheep, led by a cartel of whores, controlled by Israel / big business. Welcome to the REAL Evil Empire. You tell me,... Would the land of the fiends use illegal weps and then LIE about it??

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» very true Posted by: brasilaron
wigs
Posted by: Wigs on May 25, 2007 6:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A Boy and His Father

One finger bending slightly.
Wind.
Thick hair stirring like grass.

A boy running across a field
remembering how
he’d watched his father’s seed
tossed over black sweet soil
his father’s hands thick
touching the boy’s chin
his oniony earth hand
soft against the boy’s cheek
his father taller than the bridge
where he lifted the boy
to see the river once
small fingers dropping a leaf
then a twig
carried on the shoulders
of river sprites
his mother whispered.

Once before the sun
he’d slipped between them
warm place dipping like their valley
his mother’s hair loose
his father smelling of lye
they called him little mouse
and they laughed
like potatoes
tumbling from canvas bags
deep into the hole
covered with straw.
His mother boiled them
steam rising
making the room damp.
His father’s shoes
large as God’s he thought.

The boy running and running
hundreds of papers floating
like an early winter.
Who can tell the bright
clear sky, a peacock marble,
brightly colored balloons
from a cluster bomb
scattered like seeds
promising resurrection?

He’d seen his father’s finger
moving.
It was moving.
His father’s hair
blowing like grass
blowing like
sand.

Lynn Werner


©2007, Poets Against War, all rights reserved. Contact PAW Site Map

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» RE: wigs Posted by: Rathan47
HELLO! Anyone awake?
Posted by: WitchyNy on May 25, 2007 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We got sold out by the Democrats yesterday!!!!

Why aren't we talking about THAT?????

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» RE: HELLO! Anyone awake? Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Seriously Posted by: fanny666
» RE: HELLO! Anyone awake? Posted by: peacefullaim
Jesse Mcbeth Interview!!!
Posted by: lively56 on May 25, 2007 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would like to know how many of you here on Alternet have seen the interview former Army Ranger Jesse Mcbeth gave to an independent film crew. I saw it today on www.thelastoutpost.com. It was absolutely horrifying what that young man said he and the other rangers did while he was there in Iraq. He is courageously speaking out against this illegal war now. He explained how they would do night raids, going house to house and bring the whole family out and zip tie them. Then they told the man of the house that if he didn't tell them what they wanted to know, they would kill his family starting with youngest. If they didn't like what he said, or if he didn't say anything, they murdered the whole family. He said he personally thinks he killed maybe about 200 innocent men, women, and children that way. This is a must see interview by everyone in this country.

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» RE: Jesse Mcbeth Interview!!! Posted by: schokoprinz
» RE: Jesse Mcbeth Interview!!! Posted by: peacefullaim
my rule of thumb with these criminals...
Posted by: Michael Boldin on May 25, 2007 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is to assume a lie first. These people are waging a war that's killed nearly 2 million since 1991. I can't imagine why they wouldn't be doing horrible things there - out of our sight.

It's the nature of politics and war - lying. That's just the way it's been for centuries and there's no reason to think that American politicians would be any different.

And let's say, for some reason, they're not using these weapons, they're still killing countless innocent people. Their families don't care WHAT has been used to kill them. They're still dead.

Some further thoughts:

"Collateral Damage is Murder" - click here

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Fortunately, we can count on the Democrats to oppose this insanity. . .
Posted by: Krotos on May 25, 2007 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . .oh, wait.

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Daily Death Documentation
Posted by: ScottP on May 25, 2007 9:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The AF provides almost daily reports here:
Air Force News
under the titles that include "airpower summary." For example:
May 23 airpower

A-10 close air support generally means depleted uranium 50mm cannons, and AC-130 is exclusively a DU delivery vehicle. Most other close air support is also DU.

MK-77 napalm is denied, you won't find it listed, whether or not it is used, probably the same for CBU.

So on one day in May, there were 48 close air support missions. Pick a number of civilian casualties per mission and do the math. We're making plenty of enemies, every day.

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» RE: Daily Death Documentation Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» MK-77 Posted by: fanny666
Sign this petition sponsored by FCNL
Posted by: katinmn on May 25, 2007 9:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/352193122

The UN says Israel dropped 4 million cluster bomb in southern Lebanon during last year's war. So 40 years from now Bush and Olmert will still be killing kids in Lebanon.

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Default Command
Posted by: Ellen Remore on May 25, 2007 10:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why would they ever be straightforward about anything? These people are such reflex bullshitters, they would stand on their heads to lie when they could tell the truth sitting down.

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CONGRATULATIONS to AlterNet for its new rating system!
Posted by: HughScott on May 25, 2007 10:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It’s not often that bloggers can get instant feedback about their opinions and ideas.

Being rated by fellow AlterNeters also provides the opportunity for serious introspection -- a way of improving one’s work that is completely alien to President Bush.

Kudos again, AlterNet. Well done.

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» Jury still out Posted by: fanny666
» RE: Jury still out Posted by: bob t
They don't have "a high failure rate"
Posted by: fanny666 on May 25, 2007 10:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That fact that almost half do not explode upon impact is not a "failure", it's not an accident. Weapons are tested and re-tested... if they didn't want them to work that way, they wouldn't work that way.

cluster bombs can look like toys and some types of cluster bombs look a whole lot like the food packets we dropped on Afghanistan which mean that children are more likely to pick them up

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Time for a political cluster bomb
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on May 25, 2007 11:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Subscribe to Ron Paul's YouTube Channel

Let's get him 100,00 subscribers.

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» Ron Paul, a man that has a pair! Posted by: Illiteratilumen
More than a blip.
Posted by: HughScott on May 25, 2007 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today, CNN played tape-recorded complaints by GIs in Iraq about not having eough soldiers and Marines to complete their missions.

Clearly a cover-up like the Pentagon's cluster bomb lies, the DOD deception about troop strength is no Richter scale blip. It's a 10-magnitude earthquake!

It's time, by God, for military heads to roll -- starting with Commander-in-Chief Bush.

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Cluster bombs for Jesus and Freedom!
Posted by: Illiteratilumen on May 25, 2007 12:11 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cluster bombs, FEAR, depleted uranium, napalm or napalm like weapons, landmines, fuel-air bombs, psyops, targeted killings, UAV's, thermobaric devices, propoganda, guided missiles, nukes, etc.

All of these are perfectly good weapons and tactics to win a war with. They are also effective in making other countries think that invading the U.S. is not a good idea.

The issue is not cluster bombs. The issue is how a nation uses its military. The American people failed themselves and failed the world. American troops need to be in America protecting America. I want to see them brought home, and not just from Iraq.

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» world view Posted by: brasilaron
Had Enough of All These Lies That Have Killed/Injured a Million People?
Posted by: freethink7 on May 25, 2007 12:45 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's put the blame exactly where it belongs: U.S. and Israel. Both are engaging in criminal behavior. Yesterday, our reps in D.C. proved that they do not follow the will of we the people, they + Bu$h Cheney Inc. are beholden to the militaristic warmonger - Israel. Follow these links, please do not respond to my post with baseless accusations of "anti-Jewish". I am Anti-Criminal Behavior regardless or nationality, ethnicity, religion, gender et al.

judicial-inc.biz
ChrisBollyn
iamthewitness.com

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An classified mission revealed
Posted by: eosrk on May 25, 2007 1:58 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I took part in the Gulf War 1 epsoide, and it was pretty straightfoward; Saddam invaded Kuwait(he owed them money and instead of not paying up, he occupy them, like another country I know)and Saudis wanted the US to do their job for them(as we do everybody else). I was able to talk to Seal Team people, and the very thing they wanted to avoid in Iraq is happening now. Now there's Haiti; that was a classified mission. We were to either capture or kill the General whom was running the country. He of course gave up, and we installed that Aristide guy in office back in 1994.

Now, it's about ten years later, and we put back in Haiti the same SOB we were told to run out of there......look foward to another conflict with them in the near future!

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The Prez tripped himself up yesterday
Posted by: eosrk on May 25, 2007 5:11 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you listened to the Prez yesterday on being asked about the WMD in Iraq, he said in his usual confused, dumfounded look; "We went in on certified CIA intelligence reports that Saddam had WMD, but once we got there (in other words invaded him), we didn't find any (Invaded Iraq for no apparent reason), but he had the capability, and was a threat to America (Referring to certian americans, like the top 0.5%, its stake in their oil and natural gas reserves, and to set up the biggest embassy in the world!), thus, now....we're safer.

In that case, what's the problem with securing THE BORDER WITH MEXICO!!!!!

Oh, yeah, I forgot, cheap labor! Oh, and if an Border Guard, or any Guard for that mattter is caught doing their job, then they will be punishied by the law AND placed in prison!

That's how the Prez tripped himself up yesterday in the Rose Garden.....but notice the roses are bleeding, not the ones the were behind his back, the one over in Iraq!

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Destorying Iraq and the Iraqi People to Save Them
Posted by: sofla100 on May 25, 2007 5:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The possible use of prohibited weapons, I believe, is another unfortunate symptom of America's failure in Iraq. As the situation becomes worse, and more and more Americans die, the level of desperation goes up. What once seemed untenable becomes tenable and acceptable. We have already seen this in so many ways. The use of torture, alleged barbarity by American troops, and the reported use of "unconventional" special ops to allegedly include assasination squads. The Iraqi populace wants America out, as a desperate America seeks to define an indefinable enemy. As in Vietnam, the enemy is quickly becoming the people, the people now of Iraq. As it was also in Vietnam, that a village must be destroyed to save it," so we are seeing a repeat performance. However, this time it is the Iraqi people. Iraq must be destroyed to save it, so history repeats itself.

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Are “Democrats” Afraid to Cut War Funding, or Pretending to Be Afraid?
Posted by: maxpayne on May 25, 2007 7:52 PM   
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http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/25/1438/

You read, you decide !

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I'm not exactly sure we...
Posted by: bob t on May 26, 2007 9:12 AM   
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...got sold out by the Dems. For a time I thought we got sold out.
But now I.m not so sure. And here is what I mean.

First and foremost, if the american people wanted, really wanted the Dems to really do something to end this war or at least put some sharp restrictions on it they would have voted the Dems into congress in a much higher majority. The Dems have a razor thin edge in the senate and only a small margin in the House. If the american people wanted something done they would have voted in Dems with a clear and overpowering majority.
So, me thinks mayhap it is the american people who let us down, ie, we let ourselves down.

Secondly, the Bushies have some very powerful allies, the corporations who provide money. And the right wing religions which provide voters who are highly disciplined and dedicated voters. Religion does that to people. Catholic fundamentalist republicans and evangelical fundamentalist republicans will remain strongly dedicated to their agenda of pro-life no matter how many people have to die. So much for pro-lifers and their support of the republican war for profit and world domination. Surely some strange bedfellows, all. So much for my religion.

I'm willing to give the Dems some leeway, but not without pressure, just not hate or complete disgust.They just don't have enough power in congress to make any sweeping changes.

I'll vote all Dem for the second time in my life(2006 was the first) in '08, and for at least four years thereafter. If the Dems get a solid majority and yet still make no sweeping changes I don't know what I will do.I will probably vote for the Green party or the '08 Unity party, even though neither party may have much of a chance of winning. At least I'll make a statement albeit an impotent one.

The advantage of voting Dem and giving them a good shot is that they could, just might, hopefully will, maybe snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

Secondly, unlike the near vicious ideology driven rethugs, the Dems are more controllable by 'we the people' then the repugs who are totally out of control.

Third, the Dems are far less likely to continue the theocracy, merging church and state, that the rethugs have put in place and which now run our country; against the admonision of Jesus Christ and our US Constitution.

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Re: The use of...
Posted by: bob t on May 26, 2007 9:28 AM   
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...reprehensible weapons. Does anyone remember that some doctors treating Iraqi people have reported that some victims were killed by weapons which melted them, and were there not some pictures shown as evidence.

The doctors thought the victime were killed by energy weapons which I understood our military or some weapons contractors were testing in Iraq on the Iraqi people.

I would have to say whatever moral high ground Bush thought he had is long, long, long gone.

Only neocons, corporations and right wing religions must be among those that think of a concept such as moral high ground or ethics.

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» The use of...cowardly techniques Posted by: brasilaron
Cluster bombs, are only part of our arsenal of horror
Posted by: tnlex on May 26, 2007 5:03 PM   
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Pacifica radio did a story on this I think about the time of the assoult on Fallujah. Not only were ccluster bombs used but pellet bombs that perforate all organs making surgery on anyone affected impossible and phosphorous bombs-known in Viet Nam as Naipalm--burns victims indescriminately to the bone, the pain made worse by the water used to distrunguish it. The horrors we commit are really beyond comprehension. And civilians are the staggering overwhelming focus of this insane activity. And the military argues to our congress for more...
Last night at "prirates of the carribean" the marines showed a seductive video of the glamor of a uniform for young 15 year old wanna be pirates. How about demanding that Gold star vets for peace have a chance to explain what the have been made to do and why they will never sleep again.

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