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War on Iraq

Bush the 'Commander Guy' Rejects Spending on His Own War

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted May 4, 2007.


This week George W. Bush vetoed more than $100 billion in funds for the war he chose to start and now refuses to end -- and now the ball is in the Democrats' court.
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This week, with an almost totally incoherent speech in which he anointed himself the "Commander Guy" and once again tried to link the ongoing occupation of Iraq to al Qaeda, George W. Bush vetoed more than $100 billion in funds for the war he chose to start and now refuses to end.

Congressional Democrats had sent Bush a compromise spending bill that would have set a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq by the end of next year, but one with enough loopholes built into it that could have driven a Humvee through it all the way to Baghdad. The deadline for withdrawal was actually a "goal," and there were exceptions for troops that were training Iraqis, protecting U.S. facilities and conducting "targeted counter-terrorism missions."

But even that tepid compromise measure was too much for Bush, who insists that Congress should have little or no role in shaping Iraq policy. Bush also objected to $20 billion in funds -- characterized as useless "pork" by Congressional Republicans -- that included money for Veterans' hospitals, for reimbursing states for ongoing healthcare costs and for reconstruction projects in areas still suffering from the after-effects of Hurricane Katrina.

But even as Bush fought this latest battle to a stalemate, his veto helped opponents of the war in Congress achieve something that they could only have dreamed of a few months ago: It created what will now be an unmovable narrative that Bush wants to stay in Iraq, and Congress, led by the Democrats, wants to leave. Regardless of whether that's a true statement, it's certainly simplified. That's the view that emerged from this fight, and is now all but irreversible in the public's mind. That means that congressional Republicans continue to choose between their own chances at reelection and supporting a president with a 30 percent approval rate as he prosecutes a war that the public has clearly rejected. The strategy all along has been to unify Democrats, divide Republicans -- with pressure on the most vulnerable among them -- and isolate Bush. So far, it's been very successful.

But a key question will be answered in the following days and weeks: Did congressional Democrats become so accustomed to losing during their long years out of power that they've forgotten how to win? There's no question that they have the wind at their backs. Dozens of protests against the veto took place across the country on Wednesday, from Jackson, Miss., to Portland, Maine. A CNN poll found that 66 percent of Americans opposed the occupation, and six in ten "said they backed Congress in its standoff with the White House." More than half of those who responded to a Pew poll this week said that Democrats should "insist" on a deadline for withdrawal, while only a third wanted their representatives to oppose it.

The congressional leadership's next move will reveal whether they've fully internalized how deeply unpopular Bush and the occupation of Iraq really are. They have three choices. They can capitulate and send Bush a "clean" spending bill with no timetable for withdrawal. This would be a disaster all the way around; not only would it continue a bloody and immoral war, it would also reinforce the idea that Democrats are weak on an issue where the public is squarely in their corner. Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., who has been way ahead of most of his colleagues on the issue, said of that option: "It's not going to cut it anymore." Liberal Dems in the Congress, many of whom held their noses to vote for the supplemental in the first place, would almost certainly reject surrendering to Bush at this point.


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Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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Round one is over, let's see what happens in round two
Posted by: HeroesAll on May 4, 2007 1:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll sacrifice a chicken in hopes of the Democrats standing sufficiently firm on this issue. It surprises me greatly that they'd ignore such strong poll results: it's seemed in the past as though two or three percentage points was often enough for pollies to crow "We're right and they're wrong, nerny nerny ner". When they've essentially got a ratio of two to one in their favour, I'd expect them to be so puffed up you'd have to tether them down to stop them floating away.

Hmmm. Maybe a chicken won't be enough. I may have to find a goat.

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» RE:ROUND ONE, DEMS LOST Posted by: kbest
» RE: OUND ONE, DEMS LOST Posted by: JSquercia
Congress should tell Bush it cannot pass another bill.
Posted by: Sojourner on May 4, 2007 1:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't agree that it is now up to Congress. The question remains, Why won't Bush provide funds for the troops? His veto does not change that. He's the one who is refusing the funds.

I cannot remember a necessary funding bill being vetoed. I think the President has line item veto powers, but a total veto of appropriations is more than I can understand in terms of Congressional procedures.

As there was another vote by Congress to authorize (the one that fell short of the 2/3 needed to override), doesn't that require it be sent to the President?

Bush's hands are now up to the elbow in blood. And this is the only report on the bill I have seen that has the headline "President vetoes troop funds." Congress should make clear to the President that it is not possible to provide a different bill.

I think Congress should just send the bill to the President again and again until every news source in the country tells the people what Bush is doing. So that instead of asking "What Congress is doing?" the people are asking "Why won't Bush authorize funds for our troops?"

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» Line item veto Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Line item veto ... No - but Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
Hey, Democrats!
Posted by: Tom Degan on May 4, 2007 1:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This message is for the next president of the United States is (who will be a Democrat - count on it) The very first thing you need to do after taking the oath of office - even before you make the inaugural address - is to sign an executive order that will immediately bring the troops home. The window of opportunity is slim, to say the least. If you even wait twenty-four hours, it will become your war. Richard Nixon could done as much on 20 January 1969. Viet Nam would have been forever tied to Lyndon Johnson. Today, that horrible war is linked to the names of both men. End it on January 20, 2009 and it will be forever remembered as George W. Bush's war. If you wait even three days, it will be remembered as the war you lost.

Are you listening, Al? (I'm sorry; wishful thinking, I know).

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

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» RE: Hey, Democrats! Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Hey, Democrats! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Hey, Democrats! Posted by: surfreality
» RE: Hey, Democrats! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Hey, Democrats! Posted by: sasquuatch55
» RE: Hey, Democrats! Posted by: Conservasaurus
Congress has the winning hand.
Posted by: HughScott on May 4, 2007 4:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having studied George W. since 2003, I can read him like a New York Post front page headline. First and foremost, Bush is a bullshit artist -- all huff and puff. Look at North Korea. He said it would not get an atomic bomb on his watch. Yeah, right.

Take New Orleans. The Crescent City would be rebuilt in a year, he said. Yeah, right again.

And then there’s Iraq. “Major combat operations are over,” boasted Dub-ya after flying in a military jet the way he did his last two months in the Guard – with someone else at the controls. The guy is a bullshit artist.

Here’s why. Mr. Commander-in-Chief was the ONLY National Guard pilot during the Vietnam War to be commissioned without any officer training whatsoever. He never attended a service academy like West Point, never took college ROTC, never went to Officers Candidate School and never served on active duty as an enlisted man.

So how did Dub-ya learn to be an officer? He didn’t. The only military training Bush received prior to being commissioned happened during a six-week basic airman course, the equivalent of Army boot camp for privates.

Even more absurd, while his fellow recruits marched, pulled KP and cleaned toilets, Airman Bush was given a week off to work for the GOP in Florida.

Later that year, 1968, following basic training in Texas, when 2nd Lt. Bush headed off to fly USAF trainers at Moody AFB. GA, he barely knew how to salute, much less lead men. And he didn’t learn the art in flight school, either. His time at Moody was devoted to airmanship, not leadership,

Had Bush earned his officer commission the old-fashioned way -- by WORKING for it -- he might have learned how to wisely interrogate subordinates, a key to effective leadership, military and civilian.

Consider the time in 2002 when CIA Director George Tenet told him the existence of Iraqi WMDs was a “slam dunk” possibility. For a properly trained military leader -- Senator McCain comes to mind -- the exuberant optimism expressed by Tenet would have triggered a withering Q&A to find out the real truth about Saddam Hussein’s threat to America. But not President Bush. He’s a human tape recorder with a 30-second continuous loop, not a persistent questioner.

So who's he listening to now? Losers like Dick Cheney, Condi Rice and Karl Rove? How can he trust them after what’s happened in the Middle East? Were they the ones who conceived the new Iraq mission goal Bush announced last week: “a lessening of violence?” Whatever happened to a “self-sustaining democracy able to defend itself ?”

In poker, that kind of strategy shift signals a losing hand. Right now, Bush is holding a busted straight while the Democrat-controlled Congress has four of a kind.

Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam veteran, ex-Air Force pilot and the editor of King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.

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» Heckuva Job Brownie Posted by: apophenia_monkey
KEEP SENDING HIM THE SAME BILL, OVER AND OVER
Posted by: xbj on May 4, 2007 4:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The solution is simple; the bill IS ABSOLUTELY what the overwhelming majority of the American People want, SO KEEP SENDING HIM THE SAME EXACT BILL OVER AND OVER. Without a single change whatsoever.

Puts the blame SQUARELY and SOLELY where it belongs... ON HIM.

It's HIS war, IT'S OUR MONEY GODDAMNIT, fight it OUR way if you want OUR money to do it, or get the hell out.

It's that simple.

DO IT.

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» Consider this... Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Consider this... Posted by: gregmc
» RE: Consider this... Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Consider this... Posted by: xbj
» RE: Consider this... Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Consider this... Posted by: xbj
Last call before tyranny
Posted by: gdonald on May 4, 2007 5:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it striking that we are all soo consumed over G.W. Bush. He, his Father, and Grandfather were proven to be dangerous men long before G.W. was elected President. He has handled his Presidency in true form to what a criminal enterprise is expected to do.

There has not been one President, Republican or Democrat in the last eighty or so years that wasn't compromised coming into office and by compromised I mean that they were puppets that had enough skeleton's to make then vulnerable to blackmail.

The Political establishment in Washington has long been known to be made up of elected people whom most of us wouldn't want as neighbors,i.e. Sexual predators, a history with criminals, etc.. The Politician's are there only for love of the corporate dollar and the perks that go with office which gives them power over we the people's lives. There are very few who really know how to be servants and even fewer who have any morals or ethics. One or two who know we are a Republic with a Constitution. The rest call us a Democracy and what is a Constitution?

Republican's and Democrat's alike are nothing more than two parties talking two different languages but leading we the people and this Great Republic in one direction. They are leading us into tyranny. Both parties gave us the Patriot Acts. Both parties gave us our trillions in national debt. Both parties gave us Iraq. Both parties gave us 9-11-01. Both parties gave us Vietnam. Both parties gave us Pearl Harbor.

My message is that if anyone truly believes Democrats are the answer to our current national dilemma then you truly have lost all ability to think and reason. You truly are blind to reality. The grand chess game is being played out before our very eyes yet few can recognize that we the people are being played for idots while the political establishment both Federal and State plays politicians plays us against each other. The majority of We the People act like idiots as demonstrated each election year because We the People keep electing people from the same two parties expecting different results. So Who's really to blame for the mess we are in.

We the People must change our destructive behavior and vote for independants or truly as we are already witnessing we will loose the Republic for good and what you'll get as replacement will be your worst nightmare come true. Tyranny. It's coming now thanks to Democrat's and Republican's.

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» can a new party be created? Posted by: Don Garb
» RE: can a new party be created? Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Last call before tyranny Posted by: oregoncharles
Sen. Russ Feingold
Posted by: cynyk on May 4, 2007 5:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the sake of clarification, Russ Feingold is the junior senator from WISCONSIN, not Minnesota. Please give us badgers credit for electing another great Progressive. We have a proud history of doing so.

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» D'oh! Posted by: Joshua Holland
looking for hope from the Dems? NOT!!!!
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 4, 2007 6:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't expect too much from the Democrats on Iraq. A whole lot of them enthusiastically supported the war back in 2003 (see Bill Moyers' recent documentary), and now it is coming back to haunt them.

And, unfortunately, the Democratic party is just as much in bed with the corporate tyranny as the Republicans. They are both feeding at the same trough.

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The real fight is "De-Authorization"...
Posted by: channing on May 4, 2007 6:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bill Richardson, and now Clinton, (finally some fresh air), and Obama are planning to reverse war-authorization... This is the ONLY smart answer for the Democrats. "De-Authorization" brings the real debate back into play.

Josh is right that the funding debate is actually shaping public-perception into pro/con-occupation along party lines, and that increasing the public debate is favorable to progressives because, as Americans actually begin to think about what's up, the more they want no part in it. In addition, there is a rapidly-growing perception that what is behind all this is a real "criminal" element which is directly threatening to our way of life, Christians and conservatives included.

We are in for a "perfect storm" this summer: an illegal war, a criminal enterprise, stolen national treasure and elections, DOJ corruption, increasing terrorism, decreasing international credibility, and all for what, exactly? Neocon-extremism, unilateralism, preemption and plundered trillions gained while in the highest office of our land, all the while costing every American double-plus at the pump... remember those good old pre-oil-president days? A real patriotic oil insider occupying high office would have kept energy prices artificially low, but not these guys!

The I-train is moving, soon nobody in their right mind will be able to ignore the inevitable and urgent need for accountability and the big "I"!

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» The problem ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The problem ... Bingo! Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: The problem ... Posted by: surfreality
» : Bill Richardson for President! Posted by: sasquuatch55
Okay, is it just me . . .
Posted by: Knowmad on May 4, 2007 7:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . . or is everyone really missing another huge possibility here. I don’t see it mentioned in the article, or the comments yet. What I’m referring to is something I brought up yesterday under the ‘President gone AWOL’ thread. I’ll paraphrase it here:

How about the possibility that this ridiculous bout of special needs negociation is simply a tactic by the Dems as well? Since they’re also firmly under corporate control ($), just how interested are they really in the US getting out of Iraq yet? Maybe they've been instructed by their masters to wait until Iraq is “up and running” before pushing too hard for change. I mean, it takes time to install a quality puppet government. And that hideous mercenary army doesn't get comfortably settled in overnight either. Not to mention the massive physical task of building and establishing infrastructure . . . not for the Iraqis of, course. No, for the US controlled administration and their debauched 'good 'ole boy' army of psychos.

Seems to me the Dems could do a lot more than they’re doing and planning . . . I wonder why.

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» RE: Good point: Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Okay, is it just me . . . Posted by: leafsong1
Amature Spinners...
Posted by: gregmc on May 4, 2007 7:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Each and every one of you leftist tools, author of this article included knows that President Bush desires to fund the troops. It’s the Democrats who would pull the plug if they could (although President Bush has frequently acted like a Democrat).

President Bush has asked the Democrats to pull their pork and drop the chicken-s_it cowardly retreat wording out of it and he will approve it.

You all know that and this spin is SO weak as to be laughable. Common, you can do better can’t you?

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» RE: Amateur rightie? Posted by: Knowmad
» Amateur rightie teet-imbiber Posted by: brasilaron
» yaaaawwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn... Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Amateur rightie? Posted by: gregmc
» RE: Amateur rightie? Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Amateur rightie? Posted by: gregmc
» RE: Interesting points, may i just add... Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» actually Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Amature Spinners... Posted by: oregoncharles
» Cowardly retreat? Posted by: ScottP
» RE: Amature Spinners... Posted by: pingoo
» RE: Amature Spinners... Posted by: leafsong1
JonA
Posted by: JonA on May 4, 2007 7:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Give the Dems time. They are the new kids on the block... and remember, during the past few years have been bullied and intimidated by the oil greedy mobster group. You must remember, Iraq War was started for one thing only, TO CONTROLL THEIR OIL.... AND ONLY SECOND TO THIS, FOR US TO FIGHT A WAR FOR THE BIGGEST BULLY IN THE MID-EAST, ISRAEL. It was not for the advance of democracy .... just another lie to the American People. All of this is slowly coming out to the 30% of Americans that still believe that all the propaganda that convinced the weak minded people to follow our insane and unconstitutional leader. Pardon the mis-spelling. An Elder Voice from Wisconsin... the thinking State.

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» RE: JonA Posted by: gdonald
The smartest move the Refucklicans could make.....
Posted by: tap17x on May 4, 2007 7:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..........would be to abandon Bushit entirely and declare him and his stooges not members of the party. This would allow them to start anew and admit that they were wrong. But this has never happened and it won't now. Let them go down in flames for their treasonous cooperation with the worst president in history, and not recover as a party for at least 50 years. Then the Dems could greatly reduce corruption with public campaign financing and try to turn this country around. Silly dreams, of course.

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Option 4: let the clock run out
Posted by: ScottP on May 4, 2007 8:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why not just refuse to send any new bill? Just let the funding run out and force withdrawal. Why isn't that in the list of options? Don't many people want to use the "power of the purse"?

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» RE: Option 4: let the clock run out Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Squeaky clean Dems? Posted by: Knowmad
Please if you will entertain my questions.
Posted by: gregmc on May 4, 2007 8:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please if you will entertain my questions. Why do you all want to withdraw from Iraq. What do you think will happen to that region if we do?

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» Okay, I'll bite Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Okay, I'll bite Posted by: leafsong1
Please stop making this irritating mistake!
Posted by: realthog on May 4, 2007 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have high regard for Joshua Holland's writing, but I do wish he would learn to spell. He's not the only Alternet writer who regularly makes this particular spelling error, and the cumulative effect is exceptionally irritating -- while it also hands a (minor) weapon to those on the right who might wish to ridicule this site.

"they'd take credit for reigning in Bush's war without end"

The verb you are looking for is not "to reign", which means "to rule", but "to rein": you rein in, not "reign in", your horses, and the metaphorical use is identical.

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» Dam librul copy editers Posted by: Knowmad
Red Brown and Blue Party comment
Posted by: redbrownandblueparty on May 4, 2007 8:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Republicans and Democrats are playing politics under the management of the Money Masters while millions suffer and die, and our constitutional republic is threatened with extinction. As a poster noted, a "perfect storm" is brewing on the horizon. A poster from Canada cites the creation of a third party/reform party in her country, and asks if that is possible here? It is an idea whose time has come. That idea is not realpolitik, at least not yet. Yet, dangerous times beget radical ideas. It looks to me like the Money Masters will use the Democrats to do damage control in an effort to save their system. The Red Brown and Blue Party views the moneyist system itself as corrupt to the core and would discard it. Of course this is not going to happen, except as an idea in the minds of relatively few. Americans would choose tyranny rather than freedom if they could keep what few goodies they have acquired. Our moral fiber has been sapped, due largely to the Masters' plan. That being said, the idea realm has as much reality as realpolitik, and probably much more since it is closer on a just scale of values to reality itself, which for lack of better word is called Love. The Red Brown and Blue Party builds The Lover Government around the idea of Love and in a more ultimate way equates realpolitik with lovepolitik. In that world, the bushleaguers and the republicrats squabbling over war spending while innocents pay with their lives is a bite of information awaiting retributive justice. Or, as an ancient writer put it: "It were better for them that a millstone were put about their necks and they be dropped into the sea than that they should have injured one of these little ones."

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Dems fat & dumb on Pork
Posted by: Conservasaurus on May 4, 2007 8:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Considering the dems appetite for "pork" - along with the inability to foresee the consequences of time limits continues to be astounding.

Individual plans aside, you either recognize that the war cannot be fought with announcing timetables to the enemy for obvious reasons or you do not care that you are announcing your plans to the enemy.

Murtha's plan is probably the most insane of them all.. every two months of occupation? and this sounds logical to dems..??

Considering the public comments made by top dems regarding the "lost war" it's no wonder this sounds logical!

Withdrawal to outlying areas does nothing for a government that cannot stand on it’s own right now.. The dems have to basically come to terms that any plan they have assures the fall of their government. The carnage that will follow will surely be much worse than what they are experiencing now and they will have open season on each other..

It’s a mess for sure but one that we created and now have to solve. Time tables isn’t the answer!

As for poles, say what you want about Bush but one thing I give him credit for is NOT setting policy by pole results! I can’t say we have had one president that has given in to such pressure!

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» Seems they hunt in flocks Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Seems they hunt in flocks Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Repugs Love Killing! Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: epugs Love Killing! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: epugs Love Killing! Posted by: leafsong1
» Not like Hastert though right? Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Not like Hastert though right? Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Dems fat & dumb on Pork Posted by: leafsong1
Forgotten
Posted by: gregmc on May 4, 2007 9:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think what has really happened is that many Americans have forgotten. This is all so much bigger than Bush or republicans or democrats. This is about a threat that the entire world faces. It has faced it for hundreds of years.

“…it is not anti-Muslim, "Islamophobic," bigoted or hateful simply to point out what Muhammad taught, according to the earliest Islamic sources, and what the Qur'an says, as interpreted by the mainstream Sunni schools of jurisprudence, and what Islamic law says, and what the record of Islamic history is. How could such a thing be hateful, or loving, for that matter? It is what it is. The fact that almost no major media types will dare to look at this material squarely shows how effective the Orwellian mau-mauing has been.”

Attacks on Muslims and non-Muslims alike occur EVERY SINGLE DAY across the globe in multiple countries that have no stake in Middle Eastern oil. Those who choose to ignore reality “can’t see the forest for the trees.”

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» RE: Forgotten Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Forgotten? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Forgotten Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Forgotten Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Forgotten Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Forgotten Posted by: leafsong1
New Contest:
Posted by: oregoncharles on May 4, 2007 9:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How close can we come to saying that the Dems want to perpetuate the war in order to fasten it around the Republicans' necks,

without actually saying it?

I think Joshua has now reached Level Two. Maybe even 3 or 4.

One of these days, he'll come right out and say it.

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» RE: New Contest: Posted by: Joshua Holland
The USA is not at war in Iraq
Posted by: veive on May 4, 2007 11:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rather, the USA is in the middle of a war in Iraq. Our "Iraq war" ended right after we invaded and subsequently toppled Saddam and his regime. At that point our war was over. What we’ve subsequently been doing, and not doing very well, is act like a kind of marriage counselor. We are attempting to save a marriage involving parties that can’t stand each other, ie, Mr&Mrs Shia/Sunni/Kurd.

It’s way past time to face facts: Iraq was a shotgun marriage held together by a brutal paterfamilias. When we got rid of Saddam we got rid of the only thing holding that "marriage" together. We now find ourselves right smack in the middle as the irreconcilable parties pelt each other with anything and everything they can hurl.

Once we get Bonehead Bush out of the way, a resolution to the Iraq "problem" is straightforward. We just, a)admit that some marriages can’t be saved, b) help negotiate the divorce if asked, c) pay to clean up most of the mess we caused by invading, and d) get the hell out of there ASAP.

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» RE: The USA is not at war in Iraq Posted by: latteslave
Don't depend on politicians for a damn thing
Posted by: bandido on May 4, 2007 11:26 AM   
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If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner.

HL Mencken

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Why didn't he just sign it...
Posted by: doctorsquared on May 4, 2007 12:57 PM   
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