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War on Iraq

Study: More Than 600,000 Dead in Iraq

By John Tirman, AlterNet. Posted October 11, 2006.


A researcher associated with a brand new mortality study is blunt to critics: 'Its accuracy is not an issue ... those who publicly dismiss the findings must offer an alternative.'
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The new mortality survey of Iraq that estimates 600,000 deaths by violence is startling and should alter the way America thinks about this war.

The John Hopkins University researchers were meticulous about the methods used to randomly choose the survey sites and analyze the data. It is state-of-the-art work, and its accuracy is not an issue. The survey is the only scientific account of the war dead. There is no other, and those who publicly dismiss the findings must offer an alternative. There is none. Every other account is deeply flawed in method, and this one is not. It is standard in epidemiology and disaster response.

The survey, which my Center helped organize, is available here.

Just two weeks ago, the Washington Post published a survey of Iraqi attitudes toward the United States and the war. The survey, conducted by the State Department, revealed that enormous majorities blamed the United States for the violence and wanted us to leave Iraq. Another poll from the University of Maryland published the next day confirmed that sentiment and also reported that 60 percent of Iraqis support attacks on U.S. troops. The Johns Hopkins mortality survey and these polls go hand in hand. The Iraqi attitudes are difficult to grasp unless the violence people suffer is an enormous daily threat to them.

The implications of this level of mayhem are profound. Most obviously, the United States is not providing security. It is not viewed by the Iraqi people as doing so, and the death rate confirms why these attitudes are so firmly held. The "mission" is not being accomplished, and if trend lines are an indication, the mission is deteriorating rapidly. The debate about withdrawing must be waged in this context.

It is conceivable that the application of force by the U.S. military is making things worse. Again, this is what Iraqis believe. A number of explanations for the violence see insurgent action in particular as "defensive" -- that is, the insurgents believe they are defending their communities. Because the United States went in with a relatively small number of troops, more force was applied to compensate for those inadequate numbers. (That does not mean, however, that larger numbers would have changed the course of the war.) This strategy has perhaps stirred the insurgency as much as any other plausible factor, and the growing violence then generates itself in a giant feedback loop: the United States attacks a village where they think insurgents are harbored, and this produces more insurgents who then act violently, exacting a new U.S. military response, and so on and so on.

Many of the journalistic accounts of the war, such as Thomas Ricks' "Fiasco," suggest that this may be what is occurring. At the same time, journalists are only seeing a tiny fraction of what goes on in Baghdad, what Dexter Filkins of the New York Times describes as 2 percent of the entire country, and thus their scope is very limited in seeing the violence, accounting for the dead, or drawing out the broader meaning. As a result, we have very little understanding of how the violence affects everything -- politics, ethnic and sectarian divisions, the hundreds of thousands displaced (another invisible statistic), the many thousands leaving Iraq in droves, the deterioration of the public health care system, and every other dimension of life and death in Iraq.

This is what we need to concentrate on as the discussion of the mortality survey unfolds. Even if there were a large sampling error in the survey -- which there does not seem to be -- the numbers would be colossal in scale. And it is the meaning of these colossal numbers that we must debate. We now have empirical evidence of the scale of this human disaster. In that light, what is best for Iraq? How can such violence be ended? How can the United States carve out a constructive role from the ruins of its intervention?

Let's honor the dead of Iraq by grappling realistically with their tragedy and forge a way to ensure that this horrific human cost does not continue to mount.

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See more stories tagged with: research, war, iraq

John Tirman is executive director of MIT's Center for International Studies.

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Justice on trial
Posted by: CTvoter on Oct 11, 2006 8:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Saddam is being tried for killing HOW MANY?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Justice on trial Posted by: Heath
» Wrong again - read your history Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Wrong again - read your history Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: What grammer school did you go to? Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Ducking and dodging? Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Rumors? Hardly Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Rumors - totally! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» I guess that means no? Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Rumors - totally! Posted by: Lauren
» RE: umors - totally! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: umors - totally! Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: Rumors - totally! Posted by: Lauren
» RE: umors - totally! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Justice on trial Posted by: Peyotino
» RE: Justice on trial Posted by: Lauren
» Live and Die by the Gun Posted by: edith
» RE: Justice on trial Posted by: yellow
» Meaning all of Iraq is in flames? Posted by: LeftWright
» Unfortunately, I have to agree Posted by: LeftWright
The real disconnect between Iraqis and Americans
Posted by: SteveB on Oct 11, 2006 8:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is that many Americans, even good, well-meaning liberals, continue to believe that our presence there is "stabilizing" the country, and that disaster would result if we left.
Iraqis can see that the main mission of the Americans is protecting themselves - even if that means massive use of force that results in more dead Iraqis.
Let's get out NOW.

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Terrorist/Insurgent Feedback Loop
Posted by: Techubus on Oct 11, 2006 9:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is exactly what we are accomplishing over there. Our effort in Iraq is breeding more terrorists then it is killing, and giving rise to more insurgents then we can ever hope to defeat. When the vast majority of locals are against you and support attacks against you, you have lost.

If these numbers are accurate, if that many have truly died, then Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney all deserve to be standing alongside Saddam in that court room.

We can't pull out all the troops immediately, but we should be starting a phased withdrawal immediately.

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» Simple ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
drew
Posted by: drew on Oct 11, 2006 9:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i would also refer you to Iraqbodycount.net for a count of civilian deaths directly resultng from military action to supplement this report. Different methods and to some degree different question but still an indictment of us.
These are facts that are unforgivable and unforgetable. I tried a brief experiment the other day- i asked people, often well informed people and progressives, how many had been killed in Iraq. To a person they gave figures in the 2700-2800 range- presuming i suppose that the common reference point was how many americans have died- as if others are a non issue or somehow in the category of collateral damage. The sense of humanity and vision that their assumptions seemed to reflect leaves me with a feeling of anger and even self loathing for a country in which the vision of many of its people is so self focused and limited.

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» RE: drew Posted by: pete ess
How does this relate to the sectarian violence?
Posted by: AJN007 on Oct 11, 2006 9:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This connection isn't made here. Is the argument here that the United States is responsible for the Iraqi on Iraqi violenceand killing? Does this estimate include those deaths, or just civilians that US troops have killed?

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» 'Scuse moi Posted by: cold2touch
» Correction Posted by: Joshua Holland
this report is simply not believable
Posted by: cold2touch on Oct 11, 2006 9:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
because our Statistician-In-Chief is disputing the methodology:
President Bush dismissed the report as not credible. "The methodology is pretty well discredited," he said at a White House news conference.
Moreover: Iraqi government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh told Reuters "The report is unbelievable. These numbers are exaggerated and not precise."
I am sure that the Johns Hopkins epidemiologists are devastated by this critique, I mean, c'mon folks, if Dubya al-Dabbagh questions your methods, you better go back to school, ok, because unlike his, your Mission Is Not Complete.
We wanna see "precise" numbers, like 655,071.49 bodies, then we'll send in Halliburton to double check.

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Forget 600,000. An innocent dead Iraqi is one too many.
Posted by: DougScott on Oct 11, 2006 10:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
History will not forget or forgive President Bush for the horror he's inflicted on the Iraqi people.

For damning revelations about Shrub the Charlatan plus 70 Bushwhacking cartoons and other illustrations, please visit one of the best progressive websites on the Internet --www.King-George.biz

Try to keep smiling everyone, Doug

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» It will take a long time Posted by: HeroesAll
Modern Warfare
Posted by: Robba29 on Oct 11, 2006 11:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What the hell is going on in modern warfare?
WWI casualties were 90% military, 10% Civilian
WWII were ~40% military and 60% Civilian
Vietnam I know was higher (don't have those exact stats)
What would the Iraq war look like? A complete reversal of WWI: 90% civilian, 10% military?

Are we "winning the hearts and minds" of the people by killing them? Those who ultimately suffer have always been the people...war is not pretty, but this is absolutely sickening and ridiculous. When are we going to wake up? Let armies kill armies--fine, go for it, knock yourself out, literally. But what did the average person ever do to deserve this. This is maddening...and madness.

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» RE: good point Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: Modern Warfare Posted by: yellow
» "The Late Unpleasantness" Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Modern Warfare Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Modern Warfare Posted by: yellow
» RE: Modern Warfare Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Modern Warfare Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Modern Warfare Posted by: yellow
» RE: Modern Warfare Posted by: socrates2
» RE: Modern Warfare Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Modern Warfare Posted by: yellow
the killing fields
Posted by: rafey on Oct 11, 2006 11:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Looks like we have surpassed Stalin's total slaughter. We passed Sadam's slaughter long ago and his was funded by the U.S. !!! Of course, there are worse massacres occuring in Africa... but we don't concern ourselves with thim. No oil, don' cha know !

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Ask for forgiveness
Posted by: mistery509 on Oct 11, 2006 12:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
George W. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice should go to the United Nations and stand on their knees in front of all the nations including United States and ask for forgiveness.

They have killed thousands of people and lied to the world and their own nation. Then the world should decide what to do with these lying monsters.

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» RE: Ask for forgiveness Posted by: edith
The appropriate number is 1.
Posted by: Knowmad on Oct 11, 2006 12:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not to be heartless or insensitive, but I submit the number of dead is beside the point, as long as it’s at least one. Here’s why: Cheney, Rumsfeld and their corporate and other cronies - including their insane, front man/puppet - invaded a sovereign country illegally. This act resulted in at least one innocent’s death, so they’ve committed murder. Thus they should be arrested, charged, tried and imprisoned, just like what would happen if you or I entered another’s house and someone - or 600,000 - died as a result of that criminal act.

You need to ask yourselves, and each other, why the pathetic, immoral losers that make up your current administration are allowed to do this type of thing - and all the rest - without consequences.

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» ~six million injured Posted by: LDavistrueblue
Iraqi dead now number (as of October 11)
Posted by: Ellie1 on Oct 11, 2006 12:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
654,965. Just great, huh?

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A New Law
Posted by: FedUp on Oct 11, 2006 2:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Republicans and their Democrat sympathizers have already voted into law stating that the current Thugs that are now in power will not be subject to prosecution for their crimes against humanity.
It was voted on a few weeks ago.

Wake up folks! There's gonna be a test at the end of this course!

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» RE: A New Law Posted by: Lauren
Numbers Matter
Posted by: edith on Oct 11, 2006 3:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if the number were far less of course each life would have been tragically lost and responsibility would lay on the cretinous Bush.

However perhaps some good can come out of this quantification of slaughter. Media groups that oppose the war, and I only mention MoveOn as an example, I am sure there are others, might devise effective advertising using that number to demand prompt withdrawal and an end to a slaughter that now equals many good-sized US cities.

The Holocaust advocates understandably have used the 6 million number of victims as a symbol of Jewish suffering for years. The results of that campaign have been quite successful for the victims and their families as well as more distant and dubious beneficiaries like the State of Israel.

Let 600,000 become this generation's 6 million.

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How about a lie detector test?
Posted by: rollo on Oct 11, 2006 5:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've heard they can give near perfect polygraph tests with MRI machines. We have probable cause that every key official in the Bush administration has told/is telling huge lies to the American people. "Probable cause" is enough to get your ass pulled over, searched and arrested by your local police department because they think you might be breaking the law.

If GW and crew are telling the truth, then they can stay their rotten course. If not...off with their heads!

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Is the recent spike in killings due to deliberate US covert activity?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 11, 2006 5:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It eventually all came out - the use of 'black ops' in Vietnam to assassinate all kinds of people in South Vietnam - these went by names like 'Operation Phoenix' and involved killing mayors and other government officials in an attempt at 'total disruption' of Vietnamese society (which they thought would 'hurt' the VietCong).

So, has the program been resurrected? Are Saddam's old killers and torturers now working for the CIA in Iraq? Was the bombing of the Shiite mosque in Samarra a CIA job aimed at turning Shiite against Sunni in at attempt to divide the country up into 'autonomous regions'?

Here are some evidenciary reports along these lines:

Operation Phoenix Rises from the Ashes of history (OC Weekly)
Death squads didn’t work in Vietnam, but the CIA is betting they’ll be great in Iraq
By Nick Schou
Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 12:00 am

Never pretty, the war in Iraq is about to get a whole lot uglier. U.S. officials have begun to recruit ex-officers of Saddam Hussein’s infamous Mukhabarat, or secret police, to hunt down resistance forces fighting U.S. troops in Iraq.

According to human rights groups, the Mukhabarat was responsible for torturing and murdering tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians during Hussein’s brutal reign. Nonetheless, the CIA has already reportedly begun sending paychecks to dozens of Saddam’s former thugs, who reportedly assisted in the successful hunt for Hussein and suspected Iranian and Syrian spies in Iraq.

Ex-CIA officials have compared the program to Operation Phoenix, an agency operation that assassinated and tortured tens of thousands of mostly innocent South Vietnamese civilians between 1967 and 1970, a period that marked the most brutal years of the Vietnam War.

"They’re clearly cooking up joint teams to do Phoenix-like things, like they did in Vietnam," said former CIA counterterrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro in a Jan. 4 London Sunday Telegraph article....


See also today's Washington Post article:
Iraqi Parliament Passes Federalism Bill
BAGHDAD, Iraq -- The Shiite-dominated parliament Wednesday passed a law allowing the formation of federal regions in Iraq, despite opposition from Sunni lawmakers and some Shiites who say it will dismember the country and fuel sectarian violence...

The right-wing Brookings Insitute has also been promoting this (with the aid of the LA Times):
Break Up Iraq To Save It
With the Iraq mission on the brink of outright failure, some analysts are contemplating a "Plan B" - pulling out and trying to prevent the war from spreading to other countries. But rather than accept complete disaster, outright civil war and the likelihood of genocide, we should try to develop a strategy for achieving some minimal level of stability, even if it requires discarding our loftier aims for Iraq.

Looks like a well-coordinated operation by a pack of war criminals.

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Outcome Already Decided
Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 11, 2006 6:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just what are we, the USA doing now and why do we have to be killing all these people? Is this some kind of Kissinger "Peace with Honor" thing? Look, the strategy is already being laid out. Iraq will divide into three "autonomous" regions. The federal government will only be responsible for border protection or national defense. Of course, in reality, this will quickly become three separate countries period. Such a weak federal government will very quickly collapse. And, it is quite possible one or two of the "autonomous regions" will merge into Iran or Saudi Arabia. But, the USA is probably starting to get to where it just WANTS THE HELL OUT. So, USA is trying to put some kind of pretty face on it.

But, face it GW, its an unwinnable war, and quit killing all these people. Now, if some decide they want to be part of Iran or some want Kurdistan, that is what will happen, no matter what the USA does. We need to stop killing people for nothing as really the outcome of this Iraq thing is already
decided.

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Stastical analysis of war dead -what happened to counting???
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Oct 11, 2006 7:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A statistical method of estimating deaths...600,000 deaths -this is startling and off hand I might be able to believe that number, seems Iraqi's are killing each other by the hundreds every day! - but a stastical method???..

first when I'm told that a statistical method was used and not to bother questioning it because it is completely accurate and oh BTW, my group organized the study?????? ..mmmm

I am suspect... is everyone taking this at face value and does anyone know if this has been done in other conflicts and what the accuracy is..??

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» Let me have a go Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Let me have a go Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: No, you got it wrong! Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: No, you got it wrong! Posted by: Conservasaurus
Is it me, or do I smell BS
Posted by: TooDamnCool on Oct 11, 2006 9:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The report took its pre war baseline mortality rate at 5.5 per 1000. The US has a mortality rate of 816.7 per 100,000 or 8.2 per 1000, doesn’t it sound fishy that Iraq had a mortality rate 2/3rds that of the US pre march of 2003? Think that the US is so violent that this might be apt? Well then lets look at a few other countries: Belgium 10.1/1000, Norway 9.72/1000 and more comparable Yemen 9.1/1000. Considering that the Lancet was the same group soiling its panties about the devastating effects of sanctions, shouldn't pre-war Iraq have had a higher mortality rate than Norway? And considering that the aggregate number of dead is a function of the difference between the pre and post war mortality rates, can we believe this garbage?

I smell some pre-election bullshit, bullshit that the left will most likely ask for seconds on, but bullshit just the same.

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Is it me, or do I smell BS
Posted by: Joshua Holland on Oct 11, 2006 9:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It’s you; I just smell a winger in denial ...

First of all, the U.S. government, using entirely different methodologies, estimated the Iraqi death rate at 5.37. That's pretty close to 5.5.

Second, the study produced a range of 4.1-7.3, and the 5.5 figure is the midpoint.

Third, you're comparing apples and oranges in terms of demographics. It shouldn't come as that great a surprise that Iraq had a lower death rate overall because the median age in Iraq is 19.7 years (compared with 36.5 years in the U.S.) and only 3 percent of the population is over 65 (in the U.S. it's 12.5) All of those numbers are more skewed for the European countries cited, which have much older populations than the U.S.

One also expects to find a much lower rate of violent crime deaths in a police state than in a democracy.

All of that is irrelevant, however, because the methodology was a survey of a sample. That is to say, people were asked how many members of their family had died in a period before and since the invasion. People know who died in their own families and that's comparing apples with apples.

Lastly, while I never underestimate conservatives' ability to create a comfortable alternative reality, The Lancet is a premiere, peer reviewed medical journal, and any group of reviewers is bound to include liberals, moderates and conservatives. Your pre-election stuff is silly -- a peer reviewed study by the most respected British medical journal was not timed to coincide with midterm elections in the U.S.

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» RE: Is it me, or do I smell BS Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Is it me, or do I smell BS Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Is it me, or do I smell BS Posted by: Conservasaurus
» What "certainty"? Posted by: SteveB
» RE: What "certainty"? Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: What "certainty"? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: What "certainty"? Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Is it me, or do I smell BS Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Is it me, or do I smell BS Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Lauren Posted by: Conservasaurus
This is genocide
Posted by: andyc on Oct 11, 2006 10:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is genocide. Every American, Brit and Aussie who is not doing something to remove their current governments and get them tried for crimes against humanity should feel complicit.

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Re: Stastical analysis of war dead -what happened to counting???
Posted by: Joshua Holland on Oct 11, 2006 10:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservasaurus:

...600,000 deaths -this is startling … but a stastical method???

It’s bizarre to sneer at statistical methodologies; they are the backbone of the entire field of epidemiology.

“Counting” -- conducting a census of an entire population -- is prohibitively expensive and time consuming -- we only do it once every ten years in this country -- and, obviously, impossible when a civil war is going on (the study has a whole section about what they had to do to keep their field researchers from getting killed).

first when I'm told that a statistical method was used and not to bother questioning it because it is completely accurate and oh BTW, my group organized the study?????? ..mmmm

Regardless of who wrote the article, this study was peer-reviewed and published in what is likely the most respected British medical journal. As such, it is appropriate to judge it by its methodology -- sample size, etc. -- not by who authored one particular article about it.

It included quite a large sample size -- over 1800 families in 16 provinces.

It’ used a tried and true methodology that’s very reliable for determining a range. The number we’ll hear in the media -- 655,000 -- is simply the midpoint in the range; the study estimates that there have been between 392,979 and 942,636 excess civilian deaths compared to the prewar period. The margin of error is very low, meaning that the likelihood that the actual number -- the one you’d get by taking a census if that were possible -- is lower than the low end or higher than the high end is tiny. That’s what the claim of accuracy is based on.

The study’s significance has no relationship with where in the range the actual number might fall -- even the low figure is 7-10 times higher than any previous estimate.

I am suspect... is everyone taking this at face value and does anyone know if this has been done in other conflicts and what the accuracy is..??

The administration has already dismissed the study as not being credible, but it uses the exact same methodology as has been used to estimate the death toll in Darfur -- numbers that the administration uses all the time without question and in official policy documents -- as well as in countless other epidemiological studies in different countries and different circumstances.

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» nice explanation Posted by: ethanay
» RE: nice explanation Posted by: ethanay
The Plan to Divide Iraq is On Schedule
Posted by: LeftWright on Oct 12, 2006 12:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The plan to divide Iraq into three "states" with a federal government in charge of international agreements, borders and overseeing revenue distribution from oil sales is at least 10 years old. It is right on schedule.

The terrified Iraqi people and the horrified international community, driven to find a solution, will end up "settling" on this solution. The Iraqi federal government's main task will be overseeing the development/production of oil and distributing the revenue to the three Iraqi states. This small group of people will also be put in charge of negotiating all the oil contracts. U.S. bases will remain until the oil is flowing and "stability" has been established (or the oil runs out).

Stay tuned.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

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» Don't sell out the opposition ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» The Kurds want and deserve Posted by: LeftWright
On Behalf of Tolstoy
Posted by: BobbyGreyFriar on Oct 12, 2006 1:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"War in this world can be stopped not by the ruling establishment, but by those who suffer from war. They will do the most natural thing: stop obeying orders."

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estimates
Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 12, 2006 3:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can forget about all the Bushie and major media estimates of dead Iraqis that are Bushie-war related because that is all propaganda. The truth now has a rational range: 100,000 - 600,000 +. It is certain that the application of force by the USA is making things worse so the troops should be removed quickly as a justice issue. We see now the unmitigated vastness of deaths caused by Bushie war crimes. Impeachment is just the first step toward justice.

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