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War on Iraq

The Hatred Behind 'Hadji Girl'

By Sheldon Rampton, Center for Media and Democracy. Posted June 26, 2006.


A videotaped recording of a Marine singing about a shootout with an Iraqi family has war critics up in arms about U.S. troops' open hostility to Muslims and Arabs.
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If you want to understand why the war is going so badly in Iraq, it may help to examine the recent reaction to "Hadji Girl," the videotaped song about killing Iraqis by U.S. Marine Corporal Joshua Belile. The song became controversial when the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) discovered it on the internet and objected to its lyrics. "Hadji Girl" tells the story of a soldier "out in the sands of Iraq / And we were under attack":

Then suddenly to my surprise
I looked up and I saw her eyes
And I knew it was love at first sight.

And she said...
Dirka Dirka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah

Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

The girl says that she "wanted me to meet her family / But I, well, I couldn't figure out how to say no. / Cause I don't speak Arabic." They visit her home, a "side shanty" down "an old dirt trail," and as soon as they arrive,

Her brother and her father shouted...
Dirka Dirka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah

They pulled out their AKs so I could see

... So I grabbed her little sister and pulled her in front of me.

As the bullets began to fly
The blood sprayed from between her eyes
And then I laughed maniacally

Then I hid behind the TV
And I locked and loaded my M-16
And I blew those little fuckers to eternity.

And I said...
Dirka Dirka Mohammed Jihad

Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
They should have known they were fucking with a Marine.

The song is gruesome, to be sure, and CAIR complained that it celebrated the killing of Iraqi civilians. The video shows Belile performing the song before a laughing, applauding audience of fellow soldiers at their base in Iraq. Recognizing that the song could only bring bad publicity, U.S. military officials promptly issued a statement saying that it was "clearly inappropriate and contrary to the high standards expected of all Marines." Belile also apologized, saying the song was intended as "a joke" and that he didn't intend to offend anyone. Pro-war pundits, however, actually rallied to the song's defense. The conservative Little Green Footballs weblog thought news reports about the video controversy were the "mainstream media disgrace of the month." There's nothing wrong with the song, the Footballs said, because it doesn't actually describe a soldier killing civilians: "the people who kill the 'little sister' in this darkly humorous song are -- not the Marines -- but her father and brother, as they attempt to perpetrate an ambush." Some of the comments on LGF even called it "a wonderful song," and attacked the "nutless Pentagon star-chasing bastards" for their "capitulation." Here are some of the other comments about the song, from Little Green Footballs and elsewhere:

  • "Damn it, we are in a fucking war! Nobody whined about 'insensitivity' to the fucking Japs and Jerries."
  • "I expect more from the Pentagon. The State Dept & the CIA are just a bunch of cucumber sandwich eating fools. The Pentagon USED to be about waging war on our enemies. Now they just want to kiss up to them."
  • "I'm Proud of my fellow Marines in that video. That is EXACTLY the espirit de corps needed, the HIGH MORALE needed in the middle of a combat zone where those self-same jihadists are trying to kill those Marines every single day.
  • "Insensitive? Marines insensitive? God I hope so. We need them to kick ass and follow orders but we don't need them to be particularly sensitive. A sensitive Marine Corps will be the death of this country."
  • "One of the things CAIR didn't like was the phrase 'Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad, Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah' which makes fun of the Arab language. To hell with CAIR and to hell with the Arab language. ... And the Islamist pigs can keep going to hell."

As these comments illustrate, defense for the song quickly turns into traditional conservative anger at what they see as censorious "political correctness." They have a right, they insist, to be insensitive and hostile to Arabs and Muslims. I would argue, in fact, that this cultural xenophobia is the main theme of the song and that the violence in it is a secondary byproduct.


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Joke
Posted by: Rolomax on Jun 26, 2006 1:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you've ever seen the movie, 'Team America: World Police", you'd know that anything referring to it is some kind of joke.

Or maybe not, but the thing is that you can't know for sure. Strings or no strings. Puppets or no puppets. Who is the tool or puppet here?

Maybe he knew the song sucked. And it sucks, big time. Does that mean the message is stupid? I say, yes. Did the guy who sang the song knew how bad it sucked? I say, yes. Can we then infer that maybe he and his audience might know and understand more than we think they do?

Well, I think it was a joke not meant for wider stupider audiences.

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» RE: Joke Posted by: supercrisp
» RE: Joke Posted by: MattS
Not funny, not a joke
Posted by: dancerkc on Jun 26, 2006 1:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is life and death. These are the same soldiers murdering families at check points. The same soldiers who act as if the Iraqi's attacked us. Normal soldiers.

Put anyone in such a situation and you get this. Evil is overwhelmingly banal in its occurences.

These soldiers will lie about killing when they return. This is more of the same body-count, free-fire zone mentality from the Vietnam war.

War is always an abnormal situation. Not a movie. Not funny. Not a joke. But a great big, terrifying adventure. And "Hadji Girl" simply shows it, regardless of the denials. These are our young people. What the hell have we created?

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» RE: Not funny, not a joke Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: Not funny, not a joke Posted by: omidele
Manifestations....
Posted by: Captainmagic on Jun 26, 2006 2:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of this kind are what comes with the U.S. at war package...why are you surprised..we are not....it's what you get when you have wars and occupations....attrition sets in and the grind starts and the U.S. military as always, is totally insensitive to a populace.....they sorta know they are in the wrong....you would have to be a dumbshit to not feel the tension against you....I wrote a long time ago of looking into the eye's of the Iraqi's and look for the gleam from the corner and the unturned head...you will have your answer...the marines feel the eye's on the their backs and they know there is absolutley no safe place for them....same as Nam...same as everywhere they have been in recent history...of course they are going to write irreverent songs...they are dieing for some rich prick and they need you the people to get them home....Yo..way to go USA...is that a mighty invincible abrams tank burning in the street...Dads and Mums did that.....time to withdraw it has been lost. Please don't insult me with any Blah Blah about any chance there is of a victory for the rich pricks ....anyone who thinks this is a possibility obviously believes in the tooth fairy....time to face reality..I can't wait to hear what the evacuation is going to be called....Um! how about a "strategic repositioning of assets to take advantage of policies set in place to facilitate a more optimistic outcome of Iraqi governmental controls" Mmmmmmm...Lets all sing along...sorry I couldn't help myself..Iraqi's aren't singing are they... EOS

Captsin OUT

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» RE: Manifestations.... Posted by: stevefoagardner
Our Military's Ethics
Posted by: kgs1947 on Jun 26, 2006 3:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If this is what is happening within our military ranks, we are in for major problems. The laughter in the background was ludicrous. This whole troop needs "diversity" training? Or, a major overhaul of mental and emotional attitudes! I blame our government for such a low level of humanity among our boy soldiers! When will they ever provide a man with a true understanding of warriorship? Mobster Boys are running our military and government!

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First Dehumanize
Posted by: ChristopherLL on Jun 26, 2006 3:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first goal that must be acheived before a government can condone and promote authorized killing is to dehumanize a person or group of people. Our country, through the prodigious efforts of our leaders, have successfully dehumanized those who live in Mideast countries. This was started long ago but gained success after 9/11. It is impossible to draw a clear line between "terroriststs" and Muslims as the government and media constantly merge the two, either overtly or covertly. Those who have been trained to kill have no method to identify bona fide enemies so have succumbed to the "kill them all and let God sort it out" mentality. This was predictable and represents just another failure of those leaders who unilaterally committed this country to a war without real enemies, only those made up by propoganda.

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» another good point. Posted by: omidele
racism and other such
Posted by: rsaxto on Jun 26, 2006 3:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Racism, sexism and other such intolerant treatment of others by the American military is alive and well. This is another solid reason why we should withdraw all our troops from Iraq and other places where the USA has military bases. The illegitimate criminal current leadership does not understand that they are creating such huge international resentment of Americans that there is no way they can occupy other countries without making their citizens fiercely mad at the illegitimate occupiers. We have lost the so-called war on terrorism because American troops have become the number one terrorists created by American greed and violence caused by the Bushies.

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A result of very poor leadership
Posted by: cinattra on Jun 26, 2006 3:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can just add this music video to the long list of signs of the time that American foreign policy is on the wrong vector. I don't condemn the marines who put the video together. Condemn the leadership that put them in the situation that this video came to be made. Never ever being in the situation this young men have been placed in how can I say I would not do the same things? I'm thinkinig that if they don't dehumanize the Iraqis then they see that it is truly they themselves who have become sub-human.

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Get your pilgrimages straight!
Posted by: redstarwraith on Jun 26, 2006 5:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Hadji" is a title given to MALES who have made the pilgrimage to Mecca. "Hadja" is the title for FEMALES who have completed the trip. "Hadji Girl" is ridiculous!

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» RE: Get your pilgrimages straight! Posted by: BlueTigress
This War Is Over
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jun 26, 2006 5:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the main objective of the atrocity that the United States of America is now comitting against the people of Iraq was winning the hearts and minds if the Muslum world in general and the Iraqi peole in particular, then we might as well hang it up. That opportunity has been utterly and irreparably destroyed.

Singing a song about US soldiers slaughtering a family and then posting it on the internet is not exactly the smartest public relations ploy, if you know what I mean. Trying to justify it by saying that they were just a bunch of brave warriors letting off some steam is inexcusable. They should have known better. It also illustrates better than anything I've yet seen that a good deal of US military personell have been so desensatized by the madness that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney have unleashed on the world that they are starting to view these people as less than human.

This is all on the top of recent revelations of soldiers gunning down entire families of men, women and little children in cold blood. This is a geo-political catastrophe that will take, at the very least, a century to remedy. This war is over.

So let's all support the troops ay? Heh! Heh!

I think I'm gonna be sick.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/

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» RE: This War Is Over Posted by: particle
» RE: This War Is Over Posted by: elfarose
Just a few more bad apples is all, right?
Posted by: LMNOP on Jun 26, 2006 5:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What were you expecting from the Republicans? Kindness and understanding?

How long can it be before we hear the same old tired excuse ("a few bad apples") that tries to shift the blame away from the criminal leadership to the hapless grunts that it manipulates to commit its atrocities for them?

A few bad apples, huh? More like a bad government set up to run like organized crime. This type of failure is systemic to America now. The whole damned orchard is poisonous. Everywhere that this administration has had influence one finds a bushel of bad apples. Everything it touches turns to feces. What isn't broken?

If America was a club, you would quit it. If it was a spouse, you would divorce it. If it was a business partner, you'd sell your interest. If it was a job, you would quit it. If it was a subscription, you would cancel it. If it was a toilet, you would...well, you get the drift.

But it's a country. Oh, what to do!

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» I don't think so Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: I don't think so Posted by: lively56
most depressing thing ive heard in a while
Posted by: billevans on Jun 26, 2006 5:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
un fucking believable
i dont think i can read the news anymore
especially about people defending this shit, it should not be tolerated.

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» Thank you, Arvy. Posted by: fool-on-the-hill
The jarhead apologized to The Council on American-Islamic Relations
Posted by: sausage on Jun 26, 2006 6:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, over two weeks ago Marine Corporal Joshua Belile apologized to The Council on American-Islamic Relations about his song with lyrics like,"I blew those little f**kers to eternity ... "

There is a caveat, however, according to the least biased source I could quickly locate online, CAIR is a allegedly funded by elements within Saudi Arabia and of a fundamental Islamist bent.

The news story I originally found, after the initial story broke, about the apology was posted on the Pakistani Daily Times.com.

So anyway, the reactionary wing nut right see Belile's apology to a known anti-American, anti-Christian Islamist organization, CAIR, as an insult. Reactionary Islamists, on the other hand, will read Belile's apology as insincere.

The upshot is that the extremely stupid and racist Belile is a pawn in a much bigger game to keep the West and the Muslim world at loggerheads, to the greater benefit of the Houston-Riyadh Axis, the true asix of evil.

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changing war mentality
Posted by: valkurja on Jun 26, 2006 6:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who's had sociology 101 or read up on any history of any wars knows it is imperative to one's mental stability to see "the other" as something more and less than human. How detrimental would it be to one's mental health to realize one is killing a fellow human being? To actually THINK about what one is doing and take responsibility for it?
It was dumb to have that stupid little show taped, but the Marines needed that little show to reinforce their camaraderie in a scary place where they are doing things that must twist them at their core.
How much better would it be if they all realized their true enemy was the one man who decided they should go over there and die and kill so that he could get re-elected?
I'm with John Lennon and, "Imagine" what would happen if they all just became concientious objectors. Come home and use that vitality and hatred and funnel into politics. Help get someone in political offices that won't get anyone killed for personal gain.

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» RE: changing war mentality Posted by: bigfoot
American "culture": eroticised violence
Posted by: hansennancykay on Jun 26, 2006 6:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The American "culture" has a long-standing addiction to eroticised violence, getting more and more explicit even as the denial builds. It's so obvious, once you think about it - there's no point in even specifying how the imagery of torture and murder echo orgiastic experiences. There are so many levels of preparation leading to someone experiencing sexual pleasure from such imagery (not to mention pleasure from actually perpetrating such actions). Just think about it - can you think of some of the themes in American culture that encourage de-humanization of others and help bring about loss of the ability to see oneself as human unless one is in absolute control of the situation? Generation after generation, getting further and further from the wisdom of acceptance: of one's own power and limits, of others' place in the same beautiful and terrifying universe, of one's own mortaility and the preciousness of life. As a psychologist, I see it over and over again: identification with the aggressor: boy grows up under his father's cruel dominance, and internalizes contempt for himself as a powerless little sh--, and such feelings can only be expiated by projecting that contempt onto worthless victims; read: women, children, other religions, those who look different...

WE ARE IN SUCH DENIAL. Our guys just keep watching the blood sports and playing the video games - these don't create the tendency to be aroused as power is combined with blood and callousness and debasement of the "other", but they sure do underscore, reinforce, and basically teach that connection over and over. It's behavioral/sexual conditioning in its clearest form.

And a warning: never, ever try to get between an aroused man and his source of pleasure - the howling will be loud, and the reaction may even be dangerous. Freud said when you interpret a psychological link, it's like "spitting in his soup" - basically pointing out the obvious so it can no longer be denied (and enjoyed in ignorance).

The whole right wing fascist outrage over enforcement of standards, regulations, and "political correctness" hinges on this reaction: don't you f---ing dare to interfere with my arousal, and don't you dare point out that I'm getting off on debasing others. And don't tell me it's not gender-connected: it's no accident that the American fascists refer to the hated welfare state as "the nanny state". They see regulations and civility as the attempt of "the mother" to exert her influence; "Hey, my dad didnt' put up with that sh-- and neither will I!"

The American fascists remind me of Hitler's boy, Goebbels. When other Germans called the Nazis coarse, and a threat to the best in German culture, he said, "When I hear the word: 'culture', I reach for my gun." Reminds me of the street thugs who grab their dicks as a gesture of defiance and contempt. Ugh, sometimes the whole thing makes me feel sick.

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I found something even more offensive on the 'net
Posted by: Bobsays on Jun 26, 2006 6:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, thousands upon thousands of videos and photos posted by muslims showing the most gorry slaughter of human beings. All of this is done to the sounds of praying and exhortations to praise allah (don't forget boys and girls, islam means peace).

These US soldiers don't even come close to the heinous crimes comitted by muslim terrorists. I would like to see the Islamic council come out against those videos first. I would also like to hear, some five years later, some sort of condemnation from them for the 9/11 attacks. Alas, they remain silent on these issues.

I remain proud of US servicemen and women. They do what I couldn't do, and they mostly do it with pride and discipline. They are protecting us. Calling a few locals some bad words doesn't change the facts: war is hell and sometimes people say a few bad words.

I would focus my progressive energies on the maelstrom fo hate coming from the islamic world and its apologists in the west. That is offensive and it is dangerous.

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» Your PROGRESSIVE energies? Posted by: Mutternich
» RE: Your PROGRESSIVE energies? Posted by: Mutternich
» what??? Posted by: Wesley69
» RE: what??? Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Muslims still ahead in atrocities Posted by: stevefoagardner
Fear and Sadness
Posted by: cjs on Jun 26, 2006 6:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The war itself is encouraging these dark aspects of human nature, by bringing Americans and Iraqis together in an environment full of tension, fear, hatred and violence. And if the war itself is creating these evils, how can it hope to end them?"

This so called song, horrible as it is, screams out at us. It shows unrelenting hatred and distrust at it's most fundemental level on both sides. Neither understands nor cares to understand the other, it's about survival. The iraqi protecting his family, the marine protecting himself. This is war, plain and simple, and i'm sure the history of it is riddled with such tales sung, spoken, and nightmared. This is also exactly why they need to come home now. There is no repairing this chasm of fear and hatred.

I am saddened beyond belief after having read this, having had one more thing slap me square in the face. The real atrocity is that the US military, and by proxy the entire US, now carries the weight of being the very terrorists they proprosed to eradicate.

We need to bring them home and restore some semblance of pride & nobility not only to ourseves but also to those we're supposed to be protecting. It's time we take back what our founding fathers intended when they helped created this country.

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» You are a decent person Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: You're naive Posted by: Arvy
» Stop feeling so guilty Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Stop feeling so guilty Posted by: Mutternich
» RE: Stop feeling so guilty Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: You are a decent person Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Better Scapegoats
Posted by: gar on Jun 26, 2006 6:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Soldiers are not diplomats nor are they "peacekeepers." They are not trained for either role. Soldiers are a weapon. Weapons are used to force compliance by those who direct the weapon. If that weapon is welded by incompetents, innocent bystanders will be hurt and/or killed.

In addition to being a weapon, a soldier is also a human being. When they are being used as weapons by incompetents in an unjust cause the human in the soldier sees that and knows.

But, being a weapon under the absolute control of another leaves the soldier with few choices. He can choose to see the insanity of the situation he is in and the actions that are required of him. That way, though, is the way to personal ruin, "dishonor", and perhaps an ignoble death.

His other choice is to dehumanize the opponents - and in the process, dehumanize himself. When he does this, he can excel in his master's purpose of forcing compliance on those who refuse to comply.

Until about 1950, most major wars were really simple. Establish a line, called the “Front" and hold that line. By using a combination of superior tactics and superior force, the Front is gradually expanded to take in more ground. Any hostiles in the newly taken ground were neutralized (killed, captured, or otherwise incapacitated.)

Wars fought in this manner are simple for the soldier. The mission is clear. Neutralize resistance and expand the Front. The "enemy" is therefore anyone who attempts to subvert this mission and enemies are to be neutralized.

On the other hand, wars such as Viet Nam, and now Iraq, where there is no Front, the situation is much more opaque. It is inevitable in such situations - where missions, objectives, and even the enemy are fluid and change day to day - that soldiers will, to facilitate their own mental and physical survival, become dehumanized.

For this reason, soldiers are no more to blame for the result then are other weapons of war. However, they do make better scapegoats.

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War
Posted by: marcos on Jun 26, 2006 7:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You say that these soldiers would not react like this if they were not put in this situation. What does that mean? The fact is that these men and women are there killing in far greater numbers than they are dying. What do you expect them to do? That's what they were trained for!!!! Why be so surprised if all this horror already happened in the Phillipines and then Vietnam. Read some history.

Americans go to war generation after generation, take pride in that fact and assume to know so much about dying and killing.

But we haven't fought a foreign power on our own soil since the 18th century. So we, us NOW, don't know what war is like for a civilian, don't know what it's like to be invaded and bombed. Don't know what it's like to have our children killed, their mutilated bodies in our hands.

Americans do know about racial segregation. It was the law of the land until only 40 years ago. I live in Miami, a deeply segregated city. Not by law but by culture. I grew up in Chicago another city segregated by culture.

And then there is the segregation by class. The poor, the middle class and the rich. Don't think we're divided? Explain Katrina and the aftermath.

This defacto segregation teaches us how to stay among people like you. It's interesting how the media depicts this separation in very many ways, some interesting, some stupid.

And you have a society that deeply rejects other languages. Americans don't travel outside of the USA, they go to lala land, Disneyland. If they travel they feel threatened by the reality of others. And the vast majority only learn English, and pride themselves in this limitation.

So the soldiers, men and women, who decided to go to Iraq to avenge 9-11 are just a show of the society at large, and of course ask any soldier from any country what their priority is and you'll get the same answer: stay alive. And don't just blame Bush for sending them to fight. Don't sidestep our love of all things military.

It's time we stop blaming just a few for the extensive ignorance we have of the world at large. It's time to stop talking about war as if we know.

It's ugly to see this hideous video but my experience tells me it's part of a greater political cultural reality. That soldier expresses, as an individual, what it means to be rich, powerful, and ignorant and proud of it.

As opposed to being a gibberish talking, poor, dirty hadji.

Si o si????? Ustedes dirán.

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» RE: War Posted by: omidele
gramps
Posted by: gramps on Jun 26, 2006 7:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Iraq Vichy

There is an interesting historical parallel between the Nazi occupation of France and the American occupation of Iraq. The Vichy government was installed by an occupation just as the Iraq government was. Hitler did not call for any elections in France because at that time election fraud had not become a science. Unlike Hitler: Bush who had stolen two elections in the United States did not fear the electoral process. The Iraqis who turned out to vote did not even know who they were voting for. The Vichy government in France initiated a civil war just as the faux Iraq government has. This is why Iraqis are killing Iraqis. The idea that civil war in Iraq is caused by religious differences between the Sunni and the Shiites is false propaganda used to justify continuing the American occupation. The Iraqi girl blogger said: “Just go and take your Chalabi’s and traitors with you.”

There are other similarities that have the stink of fascism. There is no difference at all between Hitler’s “blitzkrieg” on Poland or the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and what Bush proudly named “shock and awe”. They were all unprovoked attacks on unprepared civilian populations by war criminals. The deliberate use of torture and “rendition” and the atrocities of killing women and children all fit the fascist plan. The open violation of human rights by the holding of 300 prisoners on Guantanamo just off the coast of Florida without a trial should horrify any decent American. The clear statement by General Miller after being sent to Iraq that he was going to “Gitmoize the Iraqi prisons would have had him sitting in the dock at the Nuremberg trials.

Why are Americans tolerating this abomination? Are they like the Germans who claimed they did not know about the gas ovens? Why are American Jews accepting another holocaust for their cousins the Arabs? Have they forgotten the lesson of Germany and Pastor Neimoller who said, “When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned, when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions, and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions, and I was not concerned. When Hitler attacked me and the Protestant Church--there was nobody left to be concerned.”

===========================

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» RE: gramps Posted by: shanaza
» RE: gramps Posted by: fairleft
» RE: gramps Posted by: stevefoagardner
» RE: gramps Posted by: famouspipeliner
Getting Revenge for 9/11
Posted by: owlbear1 on Jun 26, 2006 7:45 AM   
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Remember that is the reason they are there...

At least that is what Rush, Hannity, and Fox keeps telling them.

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Brace yourselves.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jun 26, 2006 7:51 AM   
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When 17, 18 and 19 year old boys get together, they sometimes do insensitive things. Our military is, after all, a product of our society. To that end, I should advise you that locker rooms, hunting camps, and motorcycle rallies are similarly NOT all PG rated.

These folks carry M16's and sidearms. As best as I can recall, and the the best of my knowledge, halos are not general issue. So, don't expect boot camp to turn certain members of society with an insenstive streak into angels. We have law school for that, right?

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» RE: Brace yourselves. Posted by: davewuxi
Mistakes of imagination
Posted by: particle on Jun 26, 2006 7:56 AM   
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"It would be a mistake to imagine that the casual brutality of "Hadji Girl" is coming from people who are simply evil or racist or cruel."

Simply? It may not really be possible to know the content of these soldiers hearts. Some may be evil, some not. But this is racism. In word and deed.

My personal opinion is that pundits shouldn't be so quick to soft peddle it.

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Judge The Tree By Its Fruit
Posted by: ZPaul on Jun 26, 2006 8:02 AM   
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The tree that bore this poisonous fruit is the Bush Administration.

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» Amen! Posted by: fool-on-the-hill
» RE: Judge The Tree By Its Fruit Posted by: stevefoagardner
Bring the boys and girls back home, already.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 26, 2006 8:32 AM   
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There's only one strategy that will work - that's withdrawing the troops and abandoning the real plan, which was apparently to split Iraq into three countries - Kurdish, Sunni and Shia - as a means of expediting lucrative oil leases, or production sharing agreements, and also to limit the power of any future Iraqi states. Imagine splitting New York into Catholic, Protestant and Jewish 'states' - that's similar to the government-media PR on Iraq. But I'm from a Catholic family, and my wife is from a Jewish family! Sorry, you are now to be segregated. After all, Jews... are Jews. Don't you feel a cold wind blowing down the back of your neck when you hear things like this?

I like the Iraq Vichy comparison. You know, if foreign troops from some other country were to march into Iraq right now and drive out the US (yes, that would probably result in nuclear war, but 'lets pretend'), they would almost certainly be greeted the same way that American troops were when they drove the Nazis out of France. If that's not a sobering reality check, I don't know what is.

The ancient Greeks said that hubris was the greatest folly that human beings were capable of, and once again they have been proved right. Nevertheless, ultimate responsibility rests with the military and civilian leadership, and they are they ones who should pay for their crimes first. However, all soldiers in Iraq should also review the conclusions of Nuremburg: The excuse of 'following orders' does not absolve one of responsibility for brutality and amorality. Furthermore, you can be sure that this 'song video' is now part of Al Queda's recruitment package, along with Gitmo and Abu Grahib photos.

I recall a television interview with a veteran soldier in Gulf War I, and he said, "when we took those prisoners, and didn't torture or beat them, I felt like I could finally live down my experiences in Vietnam". Ouch. You think the recent savage torture of those two captured soldiers had something to do with AbuG and the rest of the Iraqi prisons set up by Rumsfeld and his torture boys? How come we haven't heard any condemnations of the treatment of American POWs in the media? A captured soldier is a POW, isn't that true? No, they are now 'enemy combatants'. The Geneva Convention? Didn't Gonzales say it was "quaint"?

Let's be honest here. Rumsfeld and crew think they are military geniuses, but they're really just a collection of stupid greedy bastards. Their media cheerleaders are just as bad. Take a look at these photos of Nazi leaders.

Note any similarities to the present situation?
A Day in the Life of Ivan the Afghan

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Parallels
Posted by: BlueTigress on Jun 26, 2006 9:25 AM   
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I was listening to NPR the other week and they made a comparison between Iraq and the Phillipine War we were involved in early in the 20the century.

The soldiers were far from home, they were hot and miserable, there was no easy way to tell friend from foe, and they weren't quite certain what they were doing there. So they committed the same sort of atrocities that the current military is being pilloried for.

I can't excuse any of this. We never shoud have gone there in the first place.

Also, as I understand it "Haji/Haja" is a title of respect only to be applied to those who have completed the Hajj to Mecca.

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Johnny Quest
Posted by: Artkansas on Jun 26, 2006 9:29 AM   
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Gee, anyone remember "Race" Bannon and Hadji? You wonder where imperialist attitudes like this come from.

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» RE: Johnny Quest Posted by: Ghoulman
» Superman Is An Illegal Alien Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Johnny Quest Posted by: sirossisofliver
War crimes
Posted by: badkitty on Jun 26, 2006 10:42 AM   
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Browsing through some of the comments here makes me wonder about the respondents' intelligence. I don't have any doubts about the intelligence level of the soldiers/marines wearing the uniform that represents me or their ability to tell the difference between right and wrong.

Briefly, let's remember that Article 48 of the 1977 addition to the Geneva Conventions, Part IV, states "The parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives."

Article 50 is even more explicit: "The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilians does not deprive the population of its civilian character."

Our military is not taking the high ground here, they're operating at the moral level of the insurgents. So many people say they "support our soldiers". I support Lieutenant Watada, who is refusing deployment to Iraq beause the war is "manifestly illegal". Our soldiers in Iraq are war criminals.

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» Question... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Question... Posted by: badkitty
» One more thought... Posted by: ABetterFuture
An eye for an eye
Posted by: joy7 on Jun 26, 2006 10:49 AM   
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2008 cannot come soon enough...

An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind.
~ Mohandas Gandhi

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You know, the Nazis had much classier songs
Posted by: xbj on Jun 26, 2006 11:17 AM   
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Much classier music, too.

And much classier leaders, ones who actually believed the filth they were spewing, had actually served in real combat, and weren't just in it for the money.

And braver too. Not content to hide behind braindead moronic cokehead puppet "Deciders".

No, the Nazis had the courage to put themselves and their sick beliefs right out on public display.

Amerikan Nazis are so much smarter, aren't they?

Except of course, for their gambling that there isn't really a God.

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» RE: not Nazis Posted by: Ghoulman
» Get real thats nazi with a small n. Posted by: RhodesVan3000
Moral Cretins
Posted by: Mick333 on Jun 26, 2006 11:27 AM   
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Someone pointed out earlier in this thread .. the little boys that fight for your cheap gallon of gas make good scapegoats for the monsters in power.

Ignorant little farm boys with skid marked underpants .. scared shitless .. and with guns in their hands. Their job is to kill .. that is what they do .. I mean 2500 lives for the lives of 250,000 Iraqis .. they are doing a great job .. Your leaders are laughing all the way to the bank as the flowers of your nation drains your countries life blood into the sand.

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» RE: Moral Cretins Posted by: owleyes
» It's a stupid song, you arrogant... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: It's a stupid song, you arrogant... Posted by: stevefoagardner
» Probably not... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Probably not... Posted by: stevefoagardner
» RE: Moral Cretins Posted by: pure_genius
» RE: Moral Cretins Posted by: WhuThe?!?
par for the course
Posted by: owleyes on Jun 26, 2006 12:54 PM   
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Did anyone every really think that this type of behavior would not occur in Iraq? I opposed the war largely because I do not find anything to admire in death or killing. It would not have been possible to go to war with Iraq and not have the whole mess punctuated with events like Abu Ghraib, Haditha, and Haji Girl. These occurrences are reason enough to be a pacifist.

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» RE: par for the course Posted by: Mick333