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War on Iraq

Cindy, Don, and George

By Tom Engelhardt, Tomdispatch.com. Posted August 15, 2005.


Cindy Sheehan's blunt, take-no-prisoners approach has been remarkably successful and may even spark the Iraq War's first 'tipping point.'
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Retired four-star Army General Barry McCaffrey to Time Magazine: "The Army's wheels are going to come off in the next 24 months. We are now in a period of considerable strategic peril. It's because Rumsfeld has dug in his heels and said, I cannot retreat from my position."

Cindy Sheehan testifying at Rep. John Conyers public hearings on the Downing Street Memo:

"My son, Spc Casey Austin Sheehan, was KIA in Sadr City Baghdad on 04/04/04. He was in Iraq for only 2 weeks before [Coalition Provisional Authority head] L. Paul Bremer inflamed the Shi'ite Militia into a rebellion which resulted in the deaths of Casey and 6 other brave soldiers who were tragically killed in an ambush. Bill Mitchell, the father of Sgt. Mike Mitchell who was one of the other soldiers killed that awful day is with us here. This is a picture of Casey when he was 7 months old. It's an enlargement of a picture he carried in his wallet until the day he was killed. He loved this picture of himself. It was returned to us with his personal effects from Iraq. He always sucked on those two fingers. When he was born, he had a flat face from passing through the birth canal and we called him 'Edward G' short for Edward G. Robinson. How many of you have seen your child in his/her premature coffin? It is a shocking and very painful sight. The most heartbreaking aspect of seeing Casey lying in his casket for me, was that his face was flat again because he had no muscle tone. He looked like he did when he was a baby laying in his bassinette. The most tragic irony is that if the Downing Street Memo proves to be true, Casey and thousands of people should still be alive."

Donald Rumsfeld testifying before the House Armed Services Committee in March, 2005: "The world has seen, in the last 3 1/2 years, the capability of the United States of America to go into Afghanistan ... and with 20,000, 15,000 troops working with the Afghans do what 200,000 Soviets couldn't do in a decade. They've seen the United States and the coalition forces go into Iraq ...That has to have a deterrent effect on people." (Ann Scott Tyson, "U.S. Gaining World's Respect From Wars, Rumsfeld Asserts," the Washington Post, March 11, 2005)

George Bush on arriving for a meeting with families of the bereaved, including Cindy Sheehan and her husband on June 17, 2004: "So who are we honoring here?"

A teaser at the "Careers and Jobs" screen of GoArmy.com: "Want an extra $400 a month?" Click on it and part of what comes up is: "Qualified active Army recruits may be eligible for AIP [Assignment Incentive Pay] of $400 per month, up to 36 months for a total of up to $14,400, if they agree to be assigned to an Army-designated priority unit with a critical role in current global commitments."

Who is in that ditch?

Casey Sheehan had one of those small "critical roles" in the "current global commitment" in Iraq that, in Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's words, "has to have a deterrent effect on people." As it happens, Sheehan was one of the unexpectedly deterred and now, along with 1,846 other American soldiers, is interred, leaving his take-no-prisoners mother Cindy -- a one-person anti-war movement -- with a critical role to play in awakening Americans to the horrors, and dangers, of the Bush administration's "current global commitments."

Over the last two years, administration officials, civilian and military, have never ceased to talk about "turning corners" or reaching "tipping points" and achieving "milestones" in the Iraq-War-that-won't-end. Now it seems possible that Cindy Sheehan in a spontaneous act of opposition -- her decision to head for Crawford, Texas, to face down a vacationing President and demand an explanation for her son's death -- may produce the first real American tipping point of the Iraq War.

As a million news articles and TV reports have informed us, she was stopped about 5 miles short of her target, the Presidential "ranch" in Crawford, and found herself unceremoniously consigned to a ditch at the side of a Texas road, camping out. And yet somehow, powerless except for her story, she has managed to take the President of the United States hostage and turned his Crawford refuge into the American equivalent of Baghdad's Green Zone. She has mysteriously transformed August's news into a question of whether, on his way to meet Republican donors, the President will helicopter over her encampment or drive past (as he, in fact, did) in a tinted-windowed black Chevrolet SUV.

Faced with the power of the Bush political and media machine, Cindy Sheehan has engaged in an extreme version of asymmetrical warfare and, in her person, in her story, in her version of "the costs of war," she has also managed to catch many of the tensions of our present moment. What she has exposed in the process is the growing weakness and confusion of the Bush administration. At this moment, it remains an open question who, in the end, will be found in that ditch at the side of a Texas road, her -- or the President of the United States.


Digg!

Tom Engelhardt, editor of Tomdispatch.com, is co-founder of the American Empire Project and author of "The End of Victory Culture."

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My new hero
Posted by: Just Some Dude on Aug 15, 2005 2:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cindy Sheehan is my new hero. She's calling B.S. on George W. Bush and his pack. My prayers are with her.

I respect her not only for standing up against the administration, but for also standing firm against all the far right who think that if you are against this war in Iraq you are anti American.

Boy and girls on the right, I hate to break it to you but this thing in Iraq is not the War on Terror. It has nothing at all to do with 9/11.

In my book, Cindy is what a true American is all about, she has my greatest respect and my best wishes.

Sooner or later the rest of the country is going to pick up the clue phone and realize that we've been lied to and are still being lied to. This president and his adminsitration has insulted the intelligence of this entire country, and for what? I still can't figure it out.

This war has cost this country many lives, many dollars and has drastically split this country in two. Yea, right, the "great uniter".

And George, I am not buying your compassionate B.S. any more..."Ok so who are we honoring here today"...wtf is that about? You are absolutely heartless and absolutely without a clue. You are honoring a young American man that died for your lies!!! Have some compassion and some class.

I've got to stop here, my blood pressure is getting too high.

Good luck Cindy, you've got my vote in 2008.

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» RE: My new hero Posted by: chrisp.
Thank you Cindy
Posted by: ebotsko on Aug 15, 2005 3:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank god for Cindy Sheehan and for The Nation for bringing her to national attention. I hope that this really is the tipping point. Its up to the national media to get on-board and stay on point until she gets her questions answered.

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» RE: Thank you Cindy Posted by: LoveYourEnemies
True Courage, Honor, and Duty.
Posted by: Merchant_Of_Menace on Aug 15, 2005 4:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Awasalaam alaikum. Peace be unto you, Cindy Seehan.

Ironically, we find these Army Core Values(not all of them are listed) in the mother of a dead soldier, whose wish now is to see an end to this war without end (provided that certain people are allowed to get their way), probably the most patriotic thing anyone can do for the _people_ of her country, not the _government_.

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I hope Cindy continues being her "unpolitical self" including her swear words!
Posted by: Pepper on Aug 15, 2005 4:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say that because we are at a juncture in this country where pussy footing around will simply speed up the demise of this nation as its now in the process of doing, thanks to the neocon Satanists running this government. I say Satanists and if you don't believe me go read Condolezza Rices sworn testimoney before the 9-11 (joke wackjob) commission. All her "33's and "233's" are in there out of context. When reading them and the persistant use of those two terms realizing she is stretching to put them into some context to make it appear to have some meaning, you begin to understand there is something to this whole evil business.

I think that is what this whole Iraq is about! Its some agenda that includes greed, oil etc. but really I think it goes deeper than that. Iraq is the oldest civlization and it has the Garden of Eden between the Euphrates and Tigres Rivers so there is much there to contemplate. Enough, its too early! LOL You go Cindy, you have God and Right on your side.

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Grammar, please
Posted by: Ekatellis on Aug 15, 2005 5:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's distressing to see poor grammar in any journalistic piece. "It remains to be seen who will be found in that ditch . . . SHE or the president of the United States," not "her or the president . . ."

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» RE: Grammar, please-- Posted by: verdanteye@yahoo.com
» RE: Grammar, please Posted by: skekky
» RE: Grammar, please Posted by: bambic
» RE: Grammar, please Posted by: skekky
» RE: Grammar, please Posted by: mountainmama
» RE: Grammar, please Posted by: paulaH
» RE: Grammar, please Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» reE: CrammeRr;: Bleessz Posted by: Habaro
Barbara
Posted by: Barbara on Aug 15, 2005 5:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go Girl !! You are an AMAZING woman and will go down in my history book as an inpsirational leader who made a difference to others around the world. I live in Australia and hate what is happening in our country & government, having become a lackey to Bush. I forward all the articles I find about Cindy onto my friends in Australia and around the world.
I request that everyone who reads this article do the same. We can, if we have the same courage as Cindy, alter the future.

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gramps
Posted by: gramps on Aug 15, 2005 5:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cindy has suceeded by breaking through the mask of comity and political correctness. She is like the young nun who the Mother Superior couldn't stop from calling a spade a "fucking shovel". The only invective missing from the progressive lexicon is the F word for fascist. This is a fascist administration by any definition, but especially that of the guy who invented fascism--Benito Mussolini. "Fascism is the marriage of corporation money and state power." Still the little man aspiring to the stature of Hitler and Tojo is referred to as "our president". When will the left awaken to the fact that they are dealing with knife wielding cut-throats.

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An extra 400
Posted by: errandchild on Aug 15, 2005 6:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Getting the extra money by, "an Army-designated priority unit with a critical role in current global commitments."

Sounds like hazard pay to me.

As for Cindy. I say let her curse all she wants. She's the pissed off grieving mother, she has that right. And if she reads this site I would like her to know this:
For every person who makes it out to Crawford, there are at least fifty who wish that they could. I'm one of them. I consider you to be America's conscience right now. Do not back down, Bush is afraid of you. Keep going. You will win.

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Hogwash
Posted by: errandchild on Aug 15, 2005 6:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Much like you show your lack of spelling every time you post your BS. Unlike what Bill or Sean say, we "liberals" love America more than you do (Not that it is a contest). Your kind are what is ruining this country and turning it into the opposite of what it is supposed to be.
And by the way, I, and many other "liberals," don't like Moore either. So you can shove that too.
And how exactly does 9-11 show "our" lack of patriotism? If you are going to talk out of your butt at least explain yourself.

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» RE: Hogwash Posted by: Video
» This was a response! Posted by: errandchild
Blaming liberals won't solve the crisis especially since they haven't been in power for 25+ years.
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 15, 2005 6:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even good conservatives never supported this war. The only people who supported it were the radical rightwing fundies in the Republican party who cloak themselves as "conservative" but go SUPER-radical at large and the pansy "centrists in the Democratic Party. Who did you expect her to ally herself with, Bill O'reilly, the hate America guy who made up stories about Cindy's sister having an abortion on his hate radio show? Being allied with the left sure beats being allied with the right and you can forget the center as there is none unless you believe in the DLC and corporate but socially feeling liberal Republicans who have bastardized the word "center". You sir, are no real conservative.

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RE: hi
Posted by: eggnog2464 on Aug 15, 2005 6:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This war is not a liberal/conservative issue. Its about power, oil and gold. Patriotism is being used by BUSHCO as a weapon to divide America - to turn one group against another.

9/11 was terrorist attack - a huge one - stunning and shocking - but it was not a declaration of war. A rag-tag group of terrorists do not represent any nation, any army. They are criminals. And the US can't declare war against a non-nation. As one general put it - you can't have a war against a tactic - you can only have a war against a nation.

Right now, America declared war upon a sovereign nation - Iraq
and invaded it. Bush and his gang are 100% responsible for this invasion and manipulated Congress, the media and the American public to get COMPLIANCE. The unpatriotic ones here are not the "liberals" but the Bush Administration.

They should be IMPEACHED, tried and sent to jail for their crimes against America, the American constitution. They should even be tried for crimes against humanity for all the pain and suffering they caused in Iraq.

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» RE: hi Posted by: Basenjis
UnAmerican Liberals
Posted by: Lilah on Aug 15, 2005 6:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Greed is American, then I am an UnAmerican Liberal.
If Lying is American, then I am an UnAmerican Liberal.
If Unprovoked War is American, then I am an UnAmerican Liberal.
If Decimating the Environment is American, then I am an UnAmerican Liberal.
If Squandering our Standing in the World is American, then I am an UnAmerican Liberal.
If Abandoning the Bill of Rights is American, then I am an UnAmerican Liberal.

Liberals do not hate America, they hate what this Administration is trying to turn her into. We don't hate conservatives saying 9-11, we hate you using the events on 9-11 to justify an immoral, wasteful, stupid war of aggression, the destruction of a people (not just their government) and country (DU rounds, etc.) and the abandonment of our Bill of Rights.

I really pity you when, years from now, you see and understand what a monster you've supported....

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» Lilah Posted by: blackavenger6
» RE: Lilah Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: Lilah Posted by: Lilah
» RE: Lilah Posted by: skekky
» RE: Lilah Posted by: blackavenger8
» RE: Lilah Posted by: Lilah
» RE: Lilah Posted by: jeff
» RE: Lilah Posted by: paulaH
» blackavenger Posted by: paulaH
cyphre
Posted by: cyphre on Aug 15, 2005 6:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cindy is right. I do not remember seeing her stated as having used the word "coward," but it applies also. Bush and the rest of the neocon draft dodgers are cowardly ideologues as well as liars. She is right. And although it would be humanitarian to remain in Iraq until the situation is stable there, we cannot. We don't have the manpower. Even with a draft we would not. It is not really a Hobson's choice. We simply have to leave because we cannot do what we need to do to correct our error for being there in the first place. We are there because Bush and rest lied about the WMD and continued lying about everything else as they went along. The motivation for Bush's lies may never be known although numerous psychologists and psychiastrists have published opinions. He and the neocons have ruined our military to include the reserves and national guards and they will never recover. Our active army now offers free U.S. citizenship and forty thousand dollars to any foreigner who will join for six years. That is how desperate they are for cannon fodder. Rome did the same and was eventually overrun by barbarians. To our distress, the barbarians are now in charge and we have only ourselves to thank for it. In Iraq the electricity is not on, pulic emergency services are non existence, people at large are not secure in their lives, they have no economic future, and they cannot protect and provide for their families. Now Saadam was a bad guy and tortured and killed many of his people, but over 98 percent of them had a life and could securely provide for their families. Saadam had no WMD and was no threat to us or any of his neighbors. But because Bush lied, perhaps over 100,000 Iraqies are dead, perhaps as many as 1,000,000 maimed for life, the American war dead number now approaches 2,000 with many more thousands maimed for life, the "Coalition of the Willing" has hundreds dead and mained, and the middle east (except for Israel) is squarely, and for the foreseeable future, staunchly Anti-American as they never were before. All that can be said is "thank you George Bush."

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Death of the parties
Posted by: kelly.nickell on Aug 15, 2005 7:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sheehan has my vote as a symbol of what happens when we quit ignoring the profanity of war and lies, and begin listening to the colorful profanity of someone who is pissed off about the lack of truth.

Bill Clinton killed the hopes and dreams of what Democrats could have accomplished. Cindy Sheehan is driving a stake in the heart of the GOP. I'll send her my last dime if the Progressive movement needs more "No more Bushit" voices.

Sign me up. It's time for some genuine action.

KN - Lakeland, FL - hailing from Lubbock, TX - the most self delusional conservative bastion in perhaps the entire country. Take a look at this story: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Peace-Mom.html
to have an understanding of what folks in Texas are up against.

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Where were you on nine one one
Posted by: billyboy43 on Aug 15, 2005 7:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where were you on nine one one,
The day of deceit that had to come,
A New World Order bought by PNAC,
All they need is a terror attack.

Let the CIA hijack some planes.
Run 'em in the towers for all to see.
People won't think it was a game
To put our troops in the Middle East.

1.
Cheney downstairs running War Games,
Rummy at the Pentagon waiting on his plane,
Dubya in Florida reading to some kids,
So the world can't see what he did.

2.
The towers feel like dynomite,
A planned demolition - what a sight,
Three thousand died that day,
So bush and Cheney could have their way.

3.
FEMA on the ground just a block away,
Waiting on Rudy to call the day.
Cart off the steel - it ain't no crime,
Take their oil while we got time.

4.
The plane over Penn went astray,
Shot it down before it got away.
Got a war in Iraq we can't win,
But the war for oil never ends.

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I did not have smirky relations with that woman ... uh, Ms. Sheehan
Posted by: Meremark on Aug 15, 2005 8:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-
Give us PAT RIOT justice..

P ut
A ll
T he
R epublican
I deologues
O n
T rial

-

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A few points of interest to me
Posted by: WhatNow? on Aug 15, 2005 8:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We're talking about a military that, not so long ago, was being touted as the most powerful force not just on this planet at this moment but on any planet in all of galactic history."

This statement always annoys me. So where the hell was this great force on 9/11? As I watched tearfully what was happening that day, one thing I continually wondered was why I never saw a single fighter aircraft. FAA guidelines are that any plane hijacked over US soil is to be immediately escorted by fighter aircraft.

OK, OK everybody and anybody. You do not need to tell me it(9/11) was an inside job. I do believe the Bush administration allowed and watched it happen to help them push an agenda for war. So with that being my opinion, I believe the biggest and nastiest terrorists are the neocons.

"George prides himself on not flinching, giving ground, or ever saying he's sorry."

I admire Cindy for these characteristics but with Bush they appear to be the vices of a deceitful and cruel psychopath. I can be really stubborn and unapologetic if I feel I am right and sometimes I have been that way when I should not have. However I usually will come around to see my errors and change my ways and/or apologize.

Also maybe Cindy's profanity ought to be aired on the news. It might strike a chord with less educated and more emotional people of this country. The worse thing about profanity is when it's use shows a lack of vocabulary and thought but in Cindy's case it probably has relevance.

Keep up the fight Cindy. Maybe some lady in a ditch in Texas can help save us all from the greed, war, and violence so cherished by our so called leaders.

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With you in spirit, Cindy Sheehan - Keep on asking 'What's going on?"
Posted by: Lindie on Aug 15, 2005 8:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ms. Sheehan's vigil puts me in mind of a classic Marvin Gaye social commentary song, "What's going on?" from a set he penned questioning the rationale behind the Viet Nam War; the sorry, divided state of the nation; joblessness; society tending towards a police state; and the nasty political climate.

Cindy Sheehan may or may not have heard any of the ssongs, but she sure as hell is asking the questions and living her convictions in a way no one in the administration could have anticipated (or countered).

Ms. Sheehan will go down in American history, I suspect, as the (figurative) child that pointed out the emperor's state of total undress. And high time someone called GW Bush to account - the press HAS gone soft on him.

Cindy Sheehan has done what many of us only talk about, held GW's feet to the fire. and he's starting to flinch. Good on her. My prayers are with her. I only wish I had the courage to be there with her.

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RE: hi
Posted by: Roverton on Aug 15, 2005 9:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a liberal, though I'm not the one you have been told I am by those who are not liberal. My father told me he was a liberal during World War II when he clipped barbed wire and freed work camp prisoners. There are certain similarities between now and then. Weapons are being used, young people are being killed. The difference is that other information has come to light. It reveals the corruption behind this wars inception.

You have been lied to madam. Liberals are flawed, just like Conservatives, but if it is that easy to brainwash so many millions of us into wanting something like the humiliating death of our young by losing a war, why is it ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE for millions of Republicans to have been tricked into the war in the first place? Why is it unfathomable that we had more to do with 911 than cable news tells us.

Not everything the liberal or Democratic agenda has to offer is good for America - but why can't it be possible that these Neo-Cons are pulling the scam of this or any century? They're not true conservatives. They are con men.

Often our pride forbids us to admit we've been fooled. But to hide in our bubble of shame while our young are being killed for a lie is not particularly courageous, noble or patriotic. A defining moment in your life will be whether you are brave enough to face THAT possiblility.

Of course lots of us won't notice what thet're really doing -
THAT'S THE DEFINITION OF A "CON JOB"!

PATRIOTISM IS NOT OBEDIENCE!!!

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Right On Cindy!!!
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 15, 2005 9:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's face facts. This country's government has funded itself on warfare for quite a long time now. Usually we hang back and sell arms or transport drugs or provide funding.Then there are the times qwe get involved a little deeper and
actually get in on the killing.Been that way for Fourty Years or more.Cindy standing up for all those who feel the same way but lack the courage to stand, is a hearld for all that wars for
the benifit of the company bottom line ARE INHUMAN. You
folks harkening the oughtness sacrificing you children for the
cause of liberty and democracy better wake up and look around. We have very little Freedom and no Liberty here.
Any place we've 'liberated' does'nt fare much better. Why?
Because the government is only in it for the money.The People are just a renewable resource that are used to the
whim and dictate of the Social Eliteists. This government is ILLEAGLE,the war is ILLEAGLE.The registration for a draft and
the continued recycling of troops all ILLEAGLE.It was the illeagle policies and actions of the sitting government's Grandparents that have given us our 'terrorists' of the day.
But that's how we do 'biznuss'. All Womwn must stand up against this and all wars.You vets stop making yourselves heros. I'm a 'Nam vet myself.we butchered those people. We
were so crule that the men who had real toughness,threw away their medals,for there is no honor in being a Killer for
Machine.Support the People,Don't go to WAr.

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» RE:Grammer Posted by: Edward George
» RE: Grammer Posted by: skekky
The Wheels Fall Off WHOSE Wagon?
Posted by: monkeywrench on Aug 15, 2005 9:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's hope the wheels come off the administration in Washington before they come off the military in Iraq: we need the up-close rationality of those field commanders a lot more than we need the bumblers and crooks in the White House.

Mr. Fitzgerald, please hurry up and get those indictments to the Grand Jury. . .

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Mister
Posted by: vergon on Aug 15, 2005 9:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I quote from the article which says about Cindy Shehan:

"A mother of one of the dead who demands an explanation, an answer, when no answer he gives will ever conceivably do; a woman who, like his neocon companions, has no hesitation about going for the jugular. And, amazingly, she's already made the man flinch twice."

I would like to answer Cindy.

Do we have sympathy for the mothers (and fathers) of the boys killed in war? Of course. Does that mean the war is wrong? No. Does that mean the war is not neccessary? Again, no.

Recall that after WW I the sentiment was "I didn't raise my boy to be a soldier. I brought him up to be my love and joy".

The war in Iraq is a right war -- but for the wrong reasons. At least the wrong reasons were given by Bush.

If you are going to fight a war, know who and what your enemy is. We know why we fought Hitler -- and I don't believe anyone (except Neo Nazis) would disagree that it was a necessary war -- and many died.

So what's with Iraq? Who and what are our enemies? They are the people who downed the World TradeTowers and killed many of our soldiers over seas with embassy bombings,etc.

They are the people who HAVE BEEN WAGING WAR AGAINST NON MUSLIMS FOR 14 CENTURIES
and have now stepped up their war to a global basis.

A few centuries ago they killed 50 million people in India.

They started out on the Arabian Peninsula and now control all of central Asia, part of Eastern Asia and Eastern Africa.

Their goal is that the entire world be Islamic.

THEY HAVE DECLARED WAR ON US AND IT IS UP TO US TO DECIDE IF WE WILL DEFEND OR SUBMIT.

The trouble with the war in Iraq is that we are fighting it with our hands tied behind our back.

You can't do that and win.

Recall WWII, we laid enemy cities -- entire cities -- to waist. We didn't agonize about killing civilians -- all were are enemies.

We have to regard Iraq in the same manner. All areas where so called "insurgents" live shpould be bombed out of existence.

If there are "inncocent" civilians in the area let them leave. If you believe thay are not sympathetic to the jehadeen then you believe in the tooth fairy.

Make no mistake, these people have practiced genocide for fourteen centuries.

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» RE: Mister Posted by: mattlubic
» RE: Mister Posted by: nakis
» "These People" Collective Guilt ... Posted by: aswgt@ix.netcom.com
» RE: Mister Posted by: hhartman
» RE: Vergon Posted by: ericchil
» RE: WWII?? Posted by: Edward George
» RE: WWII?? Thanks Posted by: hhartman
» RE: Mister Posted by: britknee
» RE: Mister Posted by: cbishopp
» RE: Mister Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Mister Posted by: Just Some Dude
» RE: eggnog Posted by: Voicedude
» RE: hi Posted by: gypsy55
black avenger - a fictious name for ficticious times...
Posted by: Voicedude on Aug 15, 2005 10:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
_
black avenger has proven once and for all:
McCARTHY-ISM IS ALIVE AND WELL!

Simply 'label' someone an enemy, and they ARE one!
Simply spin any seemingly benign point to fit your agenda and 'prove' you're right!
Simply ignore the hard facts, and you can view something YOUR way!
Simply call someone un-American....and viola! - they ARE!

Facts are irrelevant. Logic is definitely irrelevant.
Just keep repeating the Mantra-Du-Jour.......

Oh wait! I just twice used French words in my description. That PROVES what a wimpy, Commie, Pinko I must be, right?
(pardon me while I laugh at you for a minute......)

Well, it WOULD be funnier if this kind of bad logic wasn't so damaging - to OUR COUNTRY, you 'patriot'! No sane person in this fine nation would ever consider McCarthyism to have been anything but a damaging, UN-American blight on our history. And YOU are trying to conjure him back up from the dead!

This kind of logic is so 'school yard' - so sophomorically immature - that it can hardly even be called 'logic'. The 'innocent' fifties may have allowed for such childish name calling and bullying, but we are supposed to know better in today's world. Slowly, as people wake up to the BS and lies they've been allowing to be slung out of this administration, you retreat back to the only thing left in your arsenal: name-calling. You are even too thick to realize how impotent you now appear to the enlightened (i.e. anyone who reads more that something that already supports their opinion).

No, no! You LOVE your unfounded, button-pushing, hopelessly childish labels - because only THEY can make you feel superior to others, something you obviously did BEFORE the war. How obvious then, that you chose 'black avenger' for your OWN label - you seem to actually think of yourself as a 'super hero'. Sorry.....but you're neither 'super', nor a 'hero'; and really, kid, Super Heroes are as fictional as a Christian President in modern times.

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How about this smoking gun?
Posted by: iremember on Aug 15, 2005 10:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Downing Street Memo, damning as it may be, is just a puff of smoke compared to the result of the CIA's investigation into who forged the infamous Niger uranium memo. A California Public Radio station had an interview with an anonymous CIA officer back in April or May, and I think he was the same guy who wrote the best selling book Imperial Hubris anonymously. I even think that Alternet might be the place where I read the transcript, or maybe truthout.org. Anyway, he said the CIA determined to a high degree of probability that Michael Ledeen forged the Niger uranium documents. For those who aren't familiar with the full cast of the usual suspects from this criminal enterprise we call the USG, Michael Ledeen is a hard right neocon, alumni of the Reagan administration, member of the Project For The New American Century, colleague of Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, et al. Why has the media not pursued this story? The fact that the primary casus belli for this war was forged by a friend and colleague of the uppermost members of this administration, to my mind, is earth-shattering evidence that these people started this war by deliberate, pre-meditated fraud and deception, not the so-called "bad intelligence" excuse that the MSM has so far let these men get away with. I hope somebody in the MSM has the balls to dig into this story and run with it. The origins of the Niger uranium documents could be the story that brings this adminstration crashing down.

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The Democrats
Posted by: Lizmv on Aug 15, 2005 10:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do hope the Democrats will pay attention and start adopting Cindy Sheehan's style. What she has is integrity.

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Uh Oh, religion
Posted by: D on Aug 15, 2005 10:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fellow lefties please take note:
Now that so many of us are inspired by Ms Sheehan, note that the real Cindy in turn is inspired by :
"...a lovely interfaith prayer service this morning. It was truly beautiful...".
The Huffington Post | Full Blog Feed 8/14/05 11:02 PM Cindy Sheehan.
Why is it so difficult for so many on the left to understand that there are people like this, for whom their spirituality is as important as their liberal politics and that the two are intimately intertwined?

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» RE: Sonny Posted by: manustrium
» RE: Sonny Posted by: manustrium
» Ahem, manustrium... Posted by: HeidiLockwood
MOTHERS of the WORLD UNITE
Posted by: hirondelle on Aug 15, 2005 12:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If all mothers around the globe for all time, refused to let their sons be cannon-fodder for the machinations of others -always for someone else's gain- wars would end.

And who is hidden in the shadows while the money comes pouring into their coffers from profits on war machinery? Let's have them out in the light where their profiteering at the expense of others misery, can be seen

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» RE: MOTHERS of the WORLD UNITE Posted by: HeidiLockwood
Astounding
Posted by: bambic on Aug 15, 2005 12:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stop and think about all this for a minute...now, somebody needs to explain to me why this man, George Bush, is the President---the President---of the United States.
How much longer before we impeach him?

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» RE: Astounding Posted by: Just Some Dude
The real terror
Posted by: Edward George on Aug 15, 2005 1:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Terror is not something done to you, it's something you feel; and the outward evidence of terror is more likely to be macho chest beating than cowering. This lady would understand when I say that when the thing you dreaded has happened you are no longer afraid.

I'm an old dude with a long memory. The American people heard and understood Franklin Roosevelt when he said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." There was plenty to fear in the Great Depression and WWII but we did not panic. The terror started with Joe McCarthy and continued through the years of Mutually Assured Destruction with enough atomic bombs to obliterate the world many times over.

This time around is just more of the same in a slightly different guise and the real terrorists are those who frighten the public for political gain. It's time to quit quivering and looking for some political or religious big daddy to hide behind. Your real friends are next door and on the next aisle at the grocery store. Talk to them. You will be amazed at how reasonable they are and how friendly they would like to be. This lady has found some of that down home courage.

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ATTA GIRL CINDY - KEEP IT UP YOUR DOING RIGHT.
Posted by: aries72 on Aug 15, 2005 1:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes I am behind you 100% Cindy and personally believe you are right on and I am with you if not in person surely am spiritually for sure. God bless you in standing up for all of us, and you betcha' we are standing up with you all the way.
I knew WE AMERICANS had backbone and would not go down in a heap under this NEOCON sham. It is all over for bush and his cronies hopefully - we Americans do have backbone and definitely do not like what we see on the horizon, oil be damned we have many alternate fuels and ideas when we allow the good to show their stuff. God bless and YEA for you.

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Keep it up Cindy
Posted by: skekky on Aug 15, 2005 2:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cindy, I just want to thank you. You are brave, and we stand by you! Do not let the 'atmosphere' in Texas get to you! Keep it up!

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"Men ought either to be well treated or crushed"
Posted by: JustAsk on Aug 15, 2005 5:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its not a "war" anymore, stop calling it that !
Posted by: cobrajet on Aug 15, 2005 6:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The war ended months ago, when the enemy lost its leader, Sadam, when the statues came tumbling down,when the US marines occupied every castle in the country.

It is now to be called "The struggle against the extremist violence"

Lets call it what it is, okay ?

If we call it a war, then the BUsh admin can use "war time politics" and side step the Bill of Rights in wartime.
Lets put a stop to that right now, shall we ?

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The Limits of Cindyism
Posted by: hagwind on Aug 16, 2005 4:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without for an instant denying Cindy Sheehan's courage, eloquence, and perseverance, can we devote a little time to exploring why she's become the undisputed darling of the LPLs (liberals, progressives, and leftists)?

Could it have anything to do with the huge, sucking LPL leadership vacuum? Or with the fact the LPLs seem to be stuck in react-react-react mode? Or that they've forgotten (or maybe never learned) the dangers of relying too heavily on the "mom card"?

Obiwan Kenobi, you are my only hope!
Jesus, come save us!

Well, the good thing is that if the LPLs think a bit about their eagerness to rally round and embrace Cindy Sheehan, they might get some much-needed insight into why, in these uncertain times, religions that preach salvation by divine intervention are so popular.

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Frannie
Posted by: Frannie5252 on Aug 16, 2005 5:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say GOOD FOR YOU CINDY. We all should have picked our sons up by the nape of the neck and thrown them into Canada instead of sending them off to fight this senseless war.
Enough is enough.

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Cindy Sheehan needs to be honest...
Posted by: FreedomForAll on Aug 16, 2005 7:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am trying to read this with an open mind, but how can I?

You are all idolizing a woman who not long ago lavished praise on President Bush for his compassion, told of how wonderful she felt after meeting with him, and then gave him support for the war by telling him to make sure her son's death counts (not her exact words, I don't have the quote in front of me).

Now I read new accounts, as told by her, that the president was cold, saying things such as 'who are we honoring here?' and more. This is not anything close to what the President was heard saying the first time.

So, my question is, is Cindy Sheehan lying now, or was she lying then? And how can anyone here give so much credibility to a person who is lying? And I am not just calling her a liar to be mean - I don't know her - I am saying she is lying because she is ON THE RECORD as telling two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT stories!

I am being sent articles like this by a well meaning liberal friend in a effort to try to show me information that might help me form another viewpoint. But how can I when I read stuff like this article, dripping with misquotes, insults, and thinly vieled threats about the President "lying in a ditch"?

Look - I applaud you all for the obvious unity in your beliefs, and I support anyone who has a voice and wants to be heard. But you might not have a lot of success bring people over from the 'other side' unless you tone down the rhetoric to be a bit more factual and less, well, nasty.

Bush met with Cindy once, he's not going to do it again, especially if all she is going to do is stand outside his home swearing and insulting him, trying to taunt him into coming out and stepping into what is surely intended to be a verbal altercation.

Maybe if she were polite, just quietly waiting, he would actually feel quilty about leaving her out there (or maybe hs advisors would...), and he would be compelled to go outside. But by Cindy spewing venom and angry rants she is giving him an excuse not to come out and face a confrontation. And not many (outside of this website, maybe) wouldn't blame him. I certainly don't.

In the end, it should be obvious that maybe you guys need another poster mom, someone who isn't on the record as telling two completely different version of the same story.

You need a new hero...

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Ivor
Posted by: Ivor on Aug 16, 2005 2:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Freedom for all ..

No it is not period! The process has only just begun. The road to freedom does not come from the barrels of American Neocon guns or the smart bombs and the napalm and the depleted uranium weapons.

A ditch is a ditch whether it holds living or dead bodies .. and it takes a human to dig one. America has dug well over a 100,000 ditches in Iraq.

Mother Earth opening one small pore to receive the bodies of innocents .. they are so consigned at the behest of a madman .. Cindy has awoken from the childhood dream...

In the throes of a new bereavement .. I can assure you there is a numbness of mind and spirit .. a merciful anesthetic .. a delay of the anger and the pain .. which if suffered immediately leads to insanity.

I think your remarks lack empathy, and I ask you .. why would you lend support and aid to a mass murderer? Yet cast aspersions on one who exposes the murderer?

The child that cried look Mommy the Emperor has no clothes .. had his ears boxed for his truth telling. Sigh ... so true.

Go CindyGo!

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» RE: Ivor Posted by: FreedomForAll
Excellent article
Posted by: mountainmama on Aug 16, 2005 9:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is such a great article!!! It's CONTENT and thought are superb! So grateful for writers like Tom.

Cindy is terrific!

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