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10 Things You Should Know About Bush's Trillion Dollar Fleecing Plan

By AlterNet Staff, AlterNet. Posted September 23, 2008.


Here's a roundup of what opponents of the Bush-Paulson plan are saying.
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The Bush administration's proposal to bail out some of Wall Street's biggest players with an unprecedented transfer of public wealth to the private sector sent shock-waves throughout the nation.

Already deep in deficit, the administration wants to borrow $700 billion dollars -- in addition to the $900 billion already spent this year to prop up troubled lending institutions and deal with the fall-out from the housing crisis -- and entrust it to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, fresh from a long run on Wall Street himself. He'd then buy up worthless paper from struggling banks.

Who would get the money? Nobody knows. Paulson says he wants to hire Wall Street firms to oversee the process.

Under Bush's plan, the taxpayer would get little, if anything, in return. The whole thing would happen without Congressional oversight, save for a semi-annual report on the process, and Paulson's actions would be beyond challenge in the courts.

It is an economic coup d'etat in the making. And people are talking about little else. Here's 10 things that have been on our radars ...

1. Shock Doctrine: Profiting from Crisis

Robert Borosage of Campaign for America's Future invokes Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine in asking whether we're going to "get fleeced in this crisis" ...

Call it extortion. Every American is told to ante up $2,000--an estimated $700 billion in all--to bail out the banks from their bad bets, or they'll bring down the entire economy.

In a speculative frenzy that allowed the Masters of the Universe to pocket millions personally, the banks filled their coffers with toxic paper that no one wants to buy. Now they sensibly don't want to lend money to each other, since no one knows if the other is solvent. So they go on strike, and threaten to trigger a global depression, if they don't get rescued.

The bailout will happen simply to avoid that depression. But depressions have some salutary effects - the scoundrels go belly up, the weakest get purged, and in the wake of the disaster, people demand strict regulation of the money lenders to keep their greed and predatory behavior in check, and government spends money on the real economy to put people back to work.

2. Has a "Consensus" Really Formed Around the Idea That Something Must Be Done?

Martin Crutsinger of the Associated Press reports that "economists" -- implying, troublingly, all economists -- see the Bush Bailout as"Necessary."

But Atrios -- economist Duncan Black's blog handle -- has some questions about how everyone got on the same page so quickly ...

It's fascinating to watch how easily consensus is manufactured. A few days ago elite opinion seemed to be cheering Paulson's "no bailout" line, and now they're cheering a trillion bucks thrown down the crapper ...

It's unrealistic to imagine that I'd be able to really get enough honest information to have an informed opinion, but I spent some time thinking about what question all the Very Serious People should, at a minimum, want answered before they start cheering on [any] plans. This is what I came up with:

What changed between Monday and Friday? What new information did you have at the end of the week that you did not have at the beginning of the week which caused you to go from $0 to $1 trillion?

And, no, tumbling stock prices or babble about "deteriorating credit conditions" don't count.

3. Is This Even Legal?

The Constitutionality of the plan is being hotly debated, according to Frank James, writing on the Chicago Trib's blog:

Troubling to many critics is the breathtaking extraconstitutionality of the proposal which would give the Treasury secretary unusual powers that couldn't be countermanded by Congress or the courts.

That appears on its face to violate the Constitution's assertion of a balance of powers where no one branch is unchecked by the others.

James goes on to quote Alan Blinder, "former Federal Reserve vice chair and normally a mild-mannered, live-and-let-live Princeton University economics professor," who said Paulson should be booted out of office for his proposal ...

"I'm speaking now as one of the earliest advocates of creating an institution like this, many, many months ago. And it's a crying shame to see the way the Treasury has written this. I think the secretary of the Treasury should be dismissed, frankly. ... Asking for the authority to buy anything, with no review, with no court review, with no limits practically as to quantity or scope, with almost no congressional oversight. We have something more precious at stake than our precious financial system and that's our precious Constitution. And frankly, if I were a member of Congress, having advocated for this for nine or ten months, I would vote against this unless it's changed, dramatically..."

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Do What FDR Did ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 23, 2008 12:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Time to call your Senators and Representative and tell them no to Paulson's Raw Deal ...

Zip Code link to Your Senators and Representative

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What FDR Did ...

Nationalize, Evaluate , Liquidate , Recapitalize ... Fire the Banksters ...

~ Nationalize all the banks and declare a bank holiday just like FDR did.

~ Evaluate the banks assets ...

~ Liquidate failed banks ...

~ Re-capitalize healthy banks and take a stake for any investment ...

~ Fire the Banksters and the boards ...

This is the only way to cleanse the system. Without getting rid of the toxic waste the few will always pollute the many causing credit seizure.

Would this cost 700 billlion dollars ? No where near that. Then why are we doing this ... to bail out insolvent banks that should go belly up and one in particular ... Goldman Sachs ... Paulson's old firm where Paulson has many friends and much money !

Bank of America Says "Paulson Plan Benefits Mostly Goldman, Morgan"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Do What FDR Did ... Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Do What FDR Did ... Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: Do What FDR Did ... Posted by: patfr
» RE: Do What FDR Did ... Posted by: blurider
» RE: Do What FDR Did ... Posted by: Livemike
» RE: Do What FDR Did ... Posted by: yellow
» CASH FOR EQUITY NOT PAPER Posted by: Peter Mackrael
Listen to PNAC founder Bill Kristol.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 23, 2008 1:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I never thought I would agree with a neocon, especially someone as devious as Kristol, but he wants to cap corporate pay at a level no higher than what President Bush makes.

Don't tell me it can't be done. Nixon did a similar thing in 1971 by imposing wage and price controls and he wasn't a unitary chief executive!

John McCain--OLD ideas, OLD solutions

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Truly A Black Hole.
Posted by: gazooks on Sep 23, 2008 1:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would be interesting to know exactly who was involved and how they arrived at the $700b ceiling limit. And since there's no market for these securities, what's the calculus in pricing?

The nominal "value" of this interrelated vortex of global OTC derivatives "market" is in the range of $800t, yes that's trillion, more than 10 times the projected bailout figure. What chain of liability exists linking American investment banking?

There's no existent market mechanism to unwind this web. Now, as the contagion spreads and the international clamor intensifies, there's some very deep shit accumulating as the flock of leveraged fraud comes home to roost.

We've seen this panic play play out before, post 911, Naomi Klein has articulated the strategy quite clearly. If Congress caves to this "rescue plan", our political future is much dimmer than that one of economy.

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» RE: Truly A Black Hole. Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Truly A Black Hole. Posted by: riley
Tell your conservative friends....
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 23, 2008 1:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that when they go to the polls on Election Day, they should remember one, undeniable fact: It was the Republicans that did this to you.

Once George W. Bush is out of office come January 20, 2009, we should all dedicate ourselves to see to it that the murderous little thug is sent to federal prison - and that he dies there. (Note to the Secret Service: Of natural causes, of course, dear boys).
Is there anyone out there - so deluded and naive - who still thinks that sending this idiot to the White House was a good idea?

"....And that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Oh, yeah? We're almost there.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Bush=Truman? HAVE ANOTHER SIP!

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» Back to Business! Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: Back to Business! Posted by: riley
» RE: Back to Business! Posted by: Quannah
» Dear, Beck.... Posted by: Tom Degan
CRASH @ the KOOL-AID STATE ( FASCIST ECONOMY )
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Sep 23, 2008 2:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Socialize" losses at the rigged crashes and take blood profits at pre-cooked bubbles. Or as anti-Fascist historian Gaetano Salvemini said: "The State pays for the blunders of private enterprise... Profit is private and individual. Loss is public and social."

Organized Corporate Crime metaphor:

Paulson is a ruling class capo Mafiosi selling an extortion racket that needs to go down very fast and hard before America wakes up. By the time the general public realizes the Wall Street "bailout" is a private hijack and takeover operation on the American economy guaranteed to be unaccountable, the next band of temp ruling class stooges will be in office making their usual excuses.

This started with a private Ponzi trap “Federal Reserve” Corporation (never federal, zero reserves) that prints money out of thin air in a failsafe giveaway program to the ultra-privileged. For the present, Paulson and Bernanke both seek to protect over a QUADRILLION dollars ($1,240 TRILLIONS) of a derivates Wall Street bubble for near 20 times the planet’s entire global GDP (Bank of International Settlements figure). In other words, they seek to prop up ruling class avarice that has become insanity.

The truth is, Organized Corporate Crime rule has already broken the globe. The criminals now want to putsch the results of massive greed and criminal private profit onto a naïve public. It’s called FASCISM via parasite organized corporate crime rule

Manmade crisis this large ALWAYS occurs by design. Usually Fascist design. Global wars and economic crashes are about extorting public wealth for private power. Always have been.



“I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again.”
Federal Reserve Governor Ben Bernanke (Conference to Honor Milton Friedman, University of Chicago 2002)

“The Federal Reserve [Corporation] definitely caused the great depression by contracting the amount of currency in circulation by one-third from 1929 to 1933.”
MILTON FRIEDMAN (conservative Nobel Laureate economist speaking on NPR. Quote 1996)

“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
President FDR (on Fascist rule in a letter to corporate con man “Colonel” Edward M. House, a founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson for the foisting of the privately rigged “Federal Reserve” Corp bank monopoly. 11/21/ 1933)

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Tom Kennedy
Posted by: tjkenn on Sep 23, 2008 3:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course we're a declining empire (#10), you don't have to be a genius to figure that one out. The question is how hard and how fast will the fall be...Check out some of Kevin Phillips' work: "American Theocracy," and "Bad Money" for historical context on the current US crisis.

In the meantime sign Senator Bernie Sanders' letter to Paulson.
Bernie's Letter

Then call your senators, congressman, Reid and Pelosi.

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» RE: Tom Kennedy Posted by: Quannah
Does this mean that hell has frozen over?
Posted by: blogoffanddie on Sep 23, 2008 4:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who'd a thought that our free market Republicans/Conservatives 'masters of the universe' would become stock market socialists. I wonder, does this mean that hell has frozen over?

Even when they totally screw up, US presidents, bankers and weathermen get to keep their jobs. Why?

OK, the weatherman is amusing, but what of the other two.

But, thank God we have socialism for the rich. Seriously, how would they make the payments on their multi-million dollar mansions and Mercedes’ without a little helping hand from Joe Middle Class American Taxpayer - who might even get to keep his job, if those market boys don’t ship it to China with the rest of America’s wealth.

http://blogoffanddie.wordpress.com

The American Dream is failing because the American Dream has become the world's nightmare.

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BUSH Robs America Blind: Quacks all the way to The Bank!
Posted by: Ottomatic on Sep 23, 2008 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No Bail-Out for Wall Street!
Burn Baby, Burn!
Bush and Wall Street are corrupt and caused this problem to begin with!
All of his advisers worked for these same failed Institutions.
They’re just trying to line their pockets and cover their tracks.
This is Corporate Blackmail.
FREEZE Foreclosures and
Save the People loosing their Homes instead of these Crooks.
This is another example of
BUSH'S crisis Management Technique:
Create a Crisis and then rob the American people Blind.
He is a Corporate Abomination.
Washington is 90% privatized.
The White House is an empty shell.
Please, STOP BUSH!
He is a Lying, Spying, Treasonous and Torturous Sack of SH-T.
He has stolen 7,000 Billion DOLLARS already and what do we have to show for it?
The Bill and a pile of our children’s: Broken and Dead bodies.
Enough is enough!

Payback is a bitch.
No more Corporate Nanny State.
No more Corporate Welfare!
Instead, we should provide our children with Health Care and pass a Renewable Energy Package that could provide clean Green Energy to this Country forever!
Helping to free ourselves from The Grip of Foreign Oil and kick the dirty Fossil Fuel Habit,
While creating millions of new Jobs!
The Green Revolution!
Self reliance, self sufficiency, conservation and higher efficiency, is the key.
Put Main Street First!
STOP the WAR and Harvest
The PEACE Dividend!
Bring the Militia Home!

Peace, Harmony, Prosperity, Cooperation, Helpfulness, True Compassion, Patience and Brotherly/Sisterly Love.
We can do it if we try!
We are already suffering the consequences of Bush’s bad decisions.
Please help,
Stop BUSH now!

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Who will bail out the treasury?
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Sep 23, 2008 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This administration has already emptied the coffers of the US tax-payers. Where will they get the money to buy all this new debt? When the government goes bankrupt instead of AIG, who will bail them out? China?

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Johnny get your gun, get your gun......
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Sep 23, 2008 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Transliteration of the antiwar anthem from Dalton Trumbo's 1939 novel "Johnny Got His Gun." Here, instead of opposition to the Hitler-Stalin axis, it applies pointedly to Bush and the criminals he has abetting him that exceeds even the scum associated with Nixon and Reagan. Johnnies everywhere, heed the anthem and rout out the perps in this penal colony and then let's pahrrrrrteeeeee! Amen and peace brosthers and sisters.

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ironically...
Posted by: ellie on Sep 23, 2008 6:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
could this be the october surprise??? from what I have heard, congress is getting flooded with emails and calls against the bailout plan...

there is no way in hell this administration or congress is going to do the will of the people this time, wall street is so wrapped up in all of our elected officials personal lives they will sell us out in a heartbeat...

according to recent history, very recent, every time the fed plugs money into the market to shore it up, within days it's bled off and the market is back to where it was in the first place... do you think this massive bailout will be any different???

funny thought... where are the families of those that want this blank check??? Bahamas, Camayan islands, Uruguay, Dubai, just vacationing dear...

let the markets drown in their own mess this time... no more money, period... sure many people would rather sell apples on a street-corner or working on a WPA type project then strangle our kids and grandkids with this kind of debt... then prison for all the perps who created this mess and seizure of all their assets no matter what coffee can buried in any global back-yard it is in..

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Letterman
Posted by: jmndodge on Sep 23, 2008 6:13 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of all people had on Bill Clinton, who actually made sense on our current situation. Did so while acknowledging the problem (It's true the housing problem expanded under his watch) but actually gave some suggestions for workable solutions to turn things around. He also had suggestions to make sure that this wasn't attempted on the backs of our poorest people, leading to a Main Street Crash. Should be worth looking for a copy of the video.

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I’ll take door number 2
Posted by: solrev on Sep 23, 2008 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What changed between Monday and Friday? What new information did you have at the end of the week that you did not have at the beginning of the week which caused you to go from $0 to $1 trillion?
I think the only thing that would scare the bejesus out of the administration and congress is door number ten. It sure seems strange that the administration and congress will not tell the American people what sucked the air out of the room. Starting over does not sound like a bad idea to me. If I were going to do anything, I would nationalize Freddy’s Fanny and buy back all their bad paper. Then I would go out and refinance mortgages and create a known value and every financial institution could eat their loss.

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We are already bankrupt...
Posted by: Farmertim on Sep 23, 2008 6:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its just that our friends whom always have seen the U.S. as the global leader and a way to get a leg up in the "OLD BOYS" club agreed to buy our debt thinking we had our shit together.
Unfortunately they now realize they are victims of the scam along with the american public who is getting the shaft.
They just haven't figured out if they can live without us...when they do, imports will stop(food included) and we will be on our own to reorganize our economy, lives and future and only be let back on the world stage when we will not compromise the rest of the world by our actions.
In a sense we are seeing the containment of the playground bully by simply isolating him by the swing sets.
Fear only works if your scared....but that eventually wares off and my hope is that the public will see through this desperate attempt at status quo and serfdom and take actions needed to begin reform within.
it is my hope..thin as it may be.
Farmertim

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Lilly
Posted by: Lilly on Sep 23, 2008 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go to washingtonpost.com 9-23-08 to see George Will's article (on the subject of McCain's reaction to the financial crisis) "McCain Loses His Head". Will gives us a telling phrase in "for John McCain, politics is always operatic". Put this together with what old friends of Sarah Palin said about her coming in just runner-up in the Miss Alaska contest of 1984: "She said she had lost because she had failed to create enough drama around herself". So, McCain (often confusing facts or being short on facts) calls for sudden and dramatic solutions, while Palin has learned to rev up her popular appeal by staying awash in personal drama. The thought having a pair of drama queens in charge of our government scares me to death. We hear plenty about Obama's experience---surely he deserves recognition for his temperament, which shows itself to be much steadier than McCain's. Go, Obama.

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Lilly
Posted by: Lilly on Sep 23, 2008 6:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like many English majors, I was careful never to take an Economics course, and the technicalities of what has happened now are not at my command. BUT. Two things about this event have penetrated my understanding. 1) We are being told that haste is essential---no time to confer, discuss, research, or even think straight (the echo in my head is saying "go to war in Iraq, sign up Halliburton, don't get bids from other contractors"). 2) The proviso that the bailout is to be subject to no legal review and no review by any agency of government, ever, scares me and should scare every American.

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This desparate attempt to postpone the inevitable only confirms that
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 23, 2008 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GOD IS SEVERELY PUNISHING AMERICA TO ETERNAL DAMNATION FOR BORROWING RECKLESSLY FROM OTHER COUNTRIES TO FINANCE TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY/CORPORATE ELITE AND DRAG THIS COUNTRY INTO WARS FOR OIL !!!!

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WTF
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 23, 2008 7:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the Wall Street execs were profiting from their avarice, not one, I repeat not one single taxpayer was given a break! Even as my taxes were going up, not one penny was added into my accounts from their greed and deceptions! Now, they have the nerve to insist, that me and mine cough up another $2000.00 or more to cover their a--, EXCUSE YOU~ Even as the fat-cats that received their enormous bonuses walk away - with their paychecks, I don't think so!

How about they return that money, Congress puts regulations in place, along with much more transparency, don't forget the pay caps, and restructure these mortgages, then we can talk about how much rescuing these con artists can get!

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» RE: WTF Posted by: 3rdI
This Is A Hold Up, Pure And Simple
Posted by: liblady2008 on Sep 23, 2008 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the most brazen attempt yet to transfer money from the have nots to the haves with one stroke of the pen.

It's simmply breathtaking, the audacity of these greedheads is astonishing.

They won't be satisfied till they are all in 300 million dollar houses while the other 99% of us live in abject poverty.

It's time for the people to rise up and say no way no how.

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Why attempt to save a suicidal economy?
Posted by: Last Chance on Sep 23, 2008 7:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The people have a real alternative - live self-reliantly on the land by forming a continental network of eco-tech villages where you grow your own food, build your own shelters, sew your own clothes, home school your own children, trade freely with each other, and carefully surround yourselves with miles of healthy wilderness - something like the Amish have done successfully for so many years. "Don't spend more than you make and life will be good to you."

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» Talk about suicidal Posted by: brunowe
» Peaceful Change Is Best Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Peaceful Change Is Best Posted by: badkitty
yikes
Posted by: blogfrog on Sep 23, 2008 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Paulson has now risen as the newest czar in Washington and his bright and shining solution will be installed in the firmament completing the new American economic system better known as a false economy.

Those that would quickly blame the present administration for all the present woes would do well to do their homework and look at the Clinton and Bush years as equally complicit in riding the growth wave of a risk driven economy where investors and investment banking ventured deeper into dot.com happy talk strategies and derivative murkiness because they saw short term profit-taking could be made and the risk could be sold off if you got in early and resided low enough on the pyramid scheme path.

Make no mistake the present solution is a sound one for presiding over a false economy trying to avoid a real collapse and a real financial depression. Pundits speak of tools in our new economic system of safeguards that won't allow a depression to occur. Unfortunately this new system is little more than printing money and none of the organic corrections and change that would occur (remember the law of physics that speaks of actions and equal reactions) have been taken out of play and the false economy moves on and te players who should crash and burn now have their version of the FDIC that they can turn to when they lose their shirt at the risk gaming table.

At the end of the day our false economy will run out of gas when the value of the American dollar slips below zero entering into the land of runaway inflation. For a sneak preview of what that looks like refer to the economic history of Argentina (20th century) and the work of economist Alberto Salazar who worked mightily to reform the Argentinian economic system to become grounded in / employ real economic principles (how to behave) and a return to things that generate and hold real value.

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» RE: yikes Posted by: blogfrog
Some banks in particular need no bailout
Posted by: alturn on Sep 23, 2008 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In regard to bailouts, foreign banks such as those incorporated in the Carribean, particularly the Cayman Islands, must not be bailed out.

These entities - which were set up to launder money to unsavory characters such as politicians and to avoid paying US taxes - must be kept off the trough.

The Iraq war did not create the level of outrage that this meltdown is doing. After whatever bogus package this spineless, diconnected-from the-public congress passes, there will no problem getting hundreds of millions of Americans to take to the street.

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yikes
Posted by: blogfrog on Sep 23, 2008 7:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Self correction- it's Hernando de Soto not Salazar I was thinking of...duh.

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Whew
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 23, 2008 7:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am just glad I got my dual citizenship in order. If that moron McBush wins in November, I'm outta here. God help the World if that idiot gets elected this year.

Justin White
Ultimate Anonymity

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October Surprise Indeed
Posted by: Ethical1 on Sep 23, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And now we see what our "surprise" is finally. If the people rise up and protest this abomination Georgie Jr. will have his reason to enforce a police state and cancel the upcoming election. How precious!

Everyone prepare to swallow this jagged little pill. What I want to know is this - does my poisened happy meal come with a toy?

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» RE: October Surprise Indeed Posted by: boing007
Bill Clinton on Letterman Last Night
Posted by: LANCE on Sep 23, 2008 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bill's gotta pretty good plan there! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLPpINP5B2w

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wrensis
Posted by: wrensis on Sep 23, 2008 8:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clinton on Letterman showed he had a clear understanding of the problem and envisioned a solution. Too bad Obama listens only to the young. We need a revolution and we despartely need a do over on the candidates for this election.

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Ron Paul says NO to bailing out Wall $treet !
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 23, 2008 8:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are the people telling us bail them out?
Posted by: yont on Sep 23, 2008 9:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They made it harder to file bankruptcy and eliminate debt.
They basically gotten rid of usury interests laws that protected people from economic slavery to loan sharks.
I would imagine these are the same people who, would eliminate welfare if they could, deny medical care to everyone except those wealthy enough to afford it, think the poor or working poor are bums or have some personal defect.

These are the people telling us bail them out? Did the world just go insane?

Am I going crazy or does this really piss off anyone else?!

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If the population of 1929 had internet access like we do today...
Posted by: ~Fiona~ on Sep 23, 2008 9:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...I wonder what "they" would have said about the economic crash of thier time???

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The Eagle is Moulting!
Posted by: Nightstallion on Sep 23, 2008 9:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am sorry for this country, its people have become so stupid and lazy that they will not do anything about the state we have fallen to. Shysters Shylocks con-men and yes men have ruled the country for the last forty five years. Even Harry Truman had his share of hidden dealings and black ops rip off artists.

The problem starts when the publicans need something done and no one else will come forward but money launderers and Alphabet Agency bag men. We are seeing this now with this latest scam to take your property at some undisclosed future time (only in a national emergency you understand).

I am not a financier I do not understand those who deal with profit and loss systems. It seems to me though that the rip-offs are about to become as blatant as and faster than a dog going after chitins. See, I come from literally another century. A time when thieving politicians and carpet baggers were tarred feathered and bounced out of town on a rail road rail to ruin his future.

I realize that I have been born into the age of the apparent “pussyfoot” and NO that vituperative has nothing to do with female genitalia. I calls ‘em as I sees ‘em, this country is about to be dismantled and there is going to be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

No one will do anything, but cavil and complain. Everyone will avoid the essential and evade the necessary until the national debt is “solved” by men who are raping the country and moving vast amounts of money off shore into private accounts. Millions of people now living in homes will lose their property to people who have been saving cash to buy during times just like this. Those who have no concept of living on a sand bar will find that their “American Dream” has collapsed under the weight of ignoring debt and borrowing ever more money.

I am too old fashioned for this new American Century my Idea of a free America has done farted and flown out the window! It was never real anyway. However, I remember a time when disgruntled citizens in a certain Midwestern state packed up their Governor bag and baggage and moved him to the state line telling him to go and never come back. Granted that was a long time ago in a country that is all but dead and gone that called itself the U.S.A. I wish it were back!

Now however we have all been tamed into kowtowing to these thieves because we know if we don’t that Blackwater or Homeland Security will take away people by the busload and start beating our children in the street. We may even be unfortuneate enough to see this occur before Christmas.

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CASH FOR EQUITY NOT PAPER
Posted by: Peter Mackrael on Sep 23, 2008 10:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CASH FOR EQUITY NOT PAPER

The US Congress is currently under pressure to quickly pass Paulson’s $700 billion bail-out proposal. Paulson's initial proposal will give the Bush administration incredible power to privatize profits while socializing the losses!

If any company is given federal assistance, the US government should receive equity in the company otherwise any massive cash infusion will merely reward those banks that got deepest in debt. Buying their worthless paper makes no sense. There is no clear method to evaluate the paper to be 'bought' and worst of all, no regulations to address the real cause or to investigate possible criminal activity. Buying this worthless paper without enforcing new regulations will merely encourage continued derivatives trading and increase the total debt. If this occurs, does anyone believe that $700 billion will be enough? I expect total bail-out costs could run into the tens of trillions if foreign banks are included.

On the other hand, government ownership will ensure that future profits (if any) are returned to the people and that new regulations to manage derivatives trading - assuming Congress writes them - are followed. If and when these banks become profitable and socially responsible, they can be sold back to private investors.

I do not trust Treasury Secretary Paulson and the Bush administration to administer this huge 'bail-out/buy-out'. As with the war in Iraq, I fear that most of this money will go to political allies and cronies.

A separate bi-partisan committee/agency should be created to assess other alternatives. If it is agreed to buy these failing banks at their current market value, the guidelines and restrictions must be transparent to all. All purchase offers should be subject to review and approval by Congress.

I believe it is highly likely that conspiracy to defraud and outright fraud has occurred before and may occur during this 'rescue' plan. An independent agency should be assigned to investigate fraud/conspiracy and these investigations should begin immediately.

The current approach uses "fear of imminent financial collapse and appeals to the need for public sacrifice" combined with a rush to push a "clean" bill through a Congress distracted by “how to protect the interests of homeowners facing foreclosure”, without allowing adequate time for assessment. This reminds me of the method that President Bush used to pass the bill to authorize the invasion of Iraq.

Congress should not be stampeded into Paulson's proposal but should instead demand other alternatives for their evaluation. FDR's solution (nationalize the banks) would be better than Paulson's proposal to reward the fraudsters.

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You Guys Need To Read The Fine Print
Posted by: 6399 on Sep 23, 2008 11:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read the terms of Paulson's plan: It's not $700 billion in one lump sum and end of story - IT'S $700 BILLION AT ANY ONE TIME.

There's one hell of a big difference between $700 billion and $700 billion at any ONE time.

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Senator
Posted by: Dboy on Sep 23, 2008 11:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is one of those moments when it would be great to be a Senator, especially one serving on the Senate Banking Committee. Here's how the script would go in MY Senate office:


speaking to one of my aides: "When Paulson calls, tell him if he wants to talk I'd be happy to meet him in my office at his convenience"

aide: "how do you know Paulson's gonna call?"

me: "just do it, you resume padding kiss-ass"

aide: "yes sir!"

me, to other office aide: "And YOU! Go get me a live squirrel, in a cage and bring it back to the office!"

confused aide: "what? are you insane?"

me: "just getting started. how would you like me to make you proposition republicans at their convention NEXT time as well?"

aide: "Live squirrel, in cage...got it sir!"

(later)

me: "why hello Mr Paulson I hear you want $700 billion dollars, no questioned asked"

Paulson: "yeah thats about right. can you help me out here?"

me: "sure..but one request. I've always wanted to see the former head of Goldman Sachs lick a live squirrel's ass on CSPAN".

Paulson: "are you insane?"

me: "just getting started"



dboy

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» RE: Senator Posted by: Quannah
No way, José!
Posted by: ruffalter on Sep 23, 2008 2:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Demand that Congress resist passing the bailout law as requested by the president. --
2. Call your congressman and senators to insist that they do not support, that they resist, the presidential bailout plan. --
3. Support the impeachment process now ongoing in the house. --
4. Demand that Congress draw up a bill that (a) requires banks to stop paying dividends, (b) requires healthy banks to issue new equity, and (c) provides financial aid to people to help them avoid losing their only residence.

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No urgency
Posted by: Hans B on Sep 23, 2008 3:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I haven't seen this point mentioned anywhere, but I think it's worth stating: the people who caused this mess have a huge interest in making the problem so urgent that Congress will sign Paulson's blank check. It's impossible to know the objective urgency, that is, the urgency that would exist in the absence of bailout anticipation.

My guess is that there's plenty of time. Congress would do well to wait until there is a new and hopefully competent administration in place.

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The Republican Core Doesn't Care
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Sep 23, 2008 3:58 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My father, an aged Republican (and will be one with his dying breath) still can't see why de-regulation caused this mess.

To this very minute.

Maybe it's because his money will only last another 8-10 years (statistically, he's only got that much time left) and the bill will go to his kids, the next generation and so on.

Republicans really don't care. They really don't. Once they've made their profit they place blame on everyone except themselves or how they vote(d).

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» RE: The Republican Core Doesn't Care Posted by: Aposterioriperception
America is . . . .
Posted by: fearn on Sep 23, 2008 5:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a plutocracy. That's all you need to know!!

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