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What's with These Stupid War Pundits Telling U.S. Allies to Commit National Suicide?

By Gary Brecher, AlterNet. Posted September 13, 2008.


Telling Georgia to keep attacking Russia is like telling a 98-pound weakling to rematch with the hulking thug who just put him on the floor.
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the war nerd

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I'd hate to be Georgia right now. So many American pundits have plans for the Georgians, brilliant schemes designed to get Georgia into a big war with the Russians. "Here's what you oughta do." It's like listening in on bar talk -- some drunk trying to talk a 98-pound weakling into a rematch with the hulking thug who just put him on the floor. Funny thing, they never want to prove their theory themselves.

The backseat generals started early. On August 16, a week after the fighting between Russian and Georgian troops started, the neocon magazine Weekly Standard featured a chirpy, upbeat article listing all the hardware we could ship to the Georgians to help them fight a nice, long, bloody guerrilla war.

It was classic Tom Clancy stuff, all based on the idea you make war with stuff, not people. These guys just won't face the fact that for the guerrilla, the key weapon, the only weapon that matters, is people -- and starting a guerrilla war means sentencing most of the people in your address book to a very nasty death.

Now we've got Sarah Palin, everybody's favorite sniper-mom, volunteering to go to war with Russia over South Ossetia.

As far as I know, Palin isn't volunteering to go there herself. She sticks to targets that don't shoot back, like moose. But then that's what all these eager volunteers have in common: none of them are actually going to go over and fight the Russians themselves, and as far as I know none of them even thought about asking the poor Georgians whether they're up for the sheer Hell of a guerrilla war. All the Georgians wanted was to join NATO, make a little money and maybe get a used car. They're like a guy who joins the Army for a college scholarship and finds himself on the front lines -- except they're not even in NATO yet. We're volunteering them to make the ultimate sacrifice and we haven't even let them in the club yet.

The absolute craziest cheerleading came out of an article in DoD buzz by Greg Grant, quoting an anonymous Department of Defense source who wants Georgia to become the new Hezbollah.

Greg's anonymous warmonger got a big, way-too-enthusiastic boost from Noah Schachtman who writes for this lame-named war site, "The Danger Room," in Wired magazine. His article, "Should Georgia Become A Black Sea Hezbollah?" seems to come up with a gung-ho answer, basically, "Sure! Do it!" Wrong question, and definitely wrong answer.

I'm pretty sure if you asked any Georgians, they'd screech, "Agh! No! We don't want to live like Hezbollah, cowering in our huts under constant bombardment, raising kids with no prospects but martyrdom!" But then the neocons haven't asked anybody in Georgia. Safe in their living rooms, they think it'd be a great idea for Georgia, a very unwarlike little middle-class country, to try to imitate the Lebanese Shia who make up Hezbollah's suicide squads.

The strangest thing about these articles is that they just drip admiration for Hezbollah. It's weird to find American defense pundits praising Hezbollah all of a sudden. I've been talking up Hezbollah's military wing for years, and all I got was a lot of abuse

Back when Israel and Hezbollah fought in 2006, every mainstream military pundit was assuring America that Israel would soon drive Hezbollah out of South Lebanon. I said no chance, and eventually, without admitting they were wrong and I was right, the pundits have changed their minds. Now they just love Hezbollah and want our poor Georgian allies to imitate Hezbollah. But these armchair Rambos just don't get it. You can't take a peace-loving, middle-class Georgian and make him into a Hezbollah guerrilla. You have to start with the right kind of people, because guerrilla war -- I keep having to repeat this -- is about people. It's not gadgets, it's not clever strategies, it's not a McGyver episodes. It's being willing to accept a level of misery and death the average American can't imagine. Won't imagine. That's what it takes.

That's why I knew Hezbollah would win the 2006 war with Israel: because they have been through decades of misery, cluster bombs raining down on their miserable villages, raids by the proxy-force South Lebanon Army -- and through it all, Hezbollah has been doing the slow, boring work of organizing the dirt-poor Shia, providing basic services, suffering with them and preparing them for the big fight. That's what makes a good guerrilla army: misery channeled into paramilitary organization. That's what made it possible for the Shia to force the Israelis out of Lebanon, and then fight them to a stalemate when they tried to come back in 2006: because they'd been living rough, poor and hopeless for a long time, then had that misery turned into a coldblooded willingness to die. That's the un-cool, no-fun side of guerrilla warfare: the guerrillas lose way, way more people than the armies fighting them.

And it's not just the terrible deaths, it's the sheer misery, years of it, that leads up to those deaths. Maybe these gung-ho guys who want the Georgians to start a guerrilla war could just stop a second and imagine what it's actually like to live through that kind of Hell. We'll start with the relatively light stuff. If you're a family from an insurgent area, the first thing you notice is that you no longer have electric light or running water. It's standard counterinsurgency practice to bomb insurgent communities' water and power sources. We generally just flick past that part of the news stories to more "serious" things, like casualty figures. But it's not so trivial if you've ever tried to live without water and power, especially when you're trying to take care of kids. They don't bomb the power plant by accident, or because they're bad people. It's standard counterinsurgency pratice to make life unbearable for the civilians who back the guerrillas. The enemy escalates your misery, day after day, from cutting off your medical supplies, power and water to random artillery strikes and air attacks on anybody who goes outside to get a loaf of bread.

Then come the kidnappings, the reprisal killings, the massacres. Again: not accidental "atrocities" but standard military practice. There's a standard figure for guerrilla warfare that for every soldier the guerrillas kill, they can expect to lose ten people from their own community. But that's a very conservative figure. It can go much, much higher. It's a lot easier to kill the civilians who support the guerrillas than to catch the guerrillas themselves. That's how the British brought the Boers to the negotiating table: couldn't catch the Boer guerrillas so they put the whole Boer civilian population in concentration camps to die of every African plague they had going. Worked real well: 25% of the whole Boer population died and the Boer guerrillas out in the veldt went insane with grief, gave up the war -- which they were winning, militarily. Think of all the people you know, everybody in your family, and randomly cross out a quarter of their pictures from your little family album. That's the price Georgia would pay if they were foolish enough to listen to Wired magazine.

It comes down to pure, grim arithmetic: the size of the civilian population backing the guerrillas, their birth rate, and the size and birth rate of the enemy army. And from that perspective things look very bad for Georgia. There are more than 140 million people in Russia and Moscow has had no problem recruiting mercenaries, "kontraktniki," to serve in Chechnya. They've done it so well in Chechnya that they've just about killed off all the Chechen males of military age. You can do that with small populations. It's what we did by proxy in El Salvador, a nice small country, and it's what the Russians would do in Georgia if the Georgians really were stupid enough to play Red Dawn with them.

Here's what these American Hezbollah fans' daydream would mean if you're a Georgian civilian during an anti-Russian insurgency: the door gets kicked in at 3 am and a squad of mercenaries comes in firing from the hip. If your family doesn't die in their beds it's because the contraktniki have a use for some or all of you. The uses can be gang-rape if you're a woman or girl, ransom if they think you or your relatives have money, or interrogation if you were unlucky enough to grow up with some of the local insurgents. It doesn't matter to them if you're a pacifist, if you've spent your life avoiding the local hotheads who run the insurgency. They're going to torture you anyway, and whether you talk or not they're going to kill you when they're done, most likely in some way involving power drills or gasoline because that's also standard counterinsurgency practice.

And even when you're dead they're not through with you. They're going to drive an army truck up to your family's shattered house next morning and dump your body in the mud outside so your mother and sister can see exactly what they did to you.

Hezbollah was able to endure the misery of guerrilla war for a lot of reasons -- none of which apply to Georgia at all. Hezbollah's backers are impoverished Shia Muslims, who are in love with martyrdom, have no possessions to speak of, and have a very high birth rate. It may sound brutal, but high birthrates are basic to guerrilla war, for the simple reason that a lot of people are going to be massacred -- dozens of your people for every enemy soldier the guerrillas kill.

The Georgian bithrate is very low, 10.87 per thousand. That's barely better than Germany (9.35) and about half of Lebanon's -- and the Shia population has a much higher rate than the overall Lebanese rate. The Chechens are another people with a very high birth rate, the highest by far of any former Soviet people.

But the total size of the population matters too. the Chechen population is small enough that the Russians have simply killed most of the young men willing to fight them, because there are (or were) only about 1.5 million Chechens. Georgia is also a very small country, with a total population of 4.6 million.

The Georgians just aren't the kind of desperate, poor community that can handle a guerrilla war. Georgians always have had a rep for smart businessmen. All they wanted was to join NATO and have decent lives; they didn't sign up to go through what the Shia or the Chechens have suffered. They're not desperate or young or crazy enough for a guerrilla war, luckily for them.

I've been wondering why so-called "experts" just don't understand the sheer Hell involved in starting a guerrilla war. I think one reason is that we take the American Revolution as the classic example of guerrilla fighting. Well, it wasn't typical. It was the cleanest-fought semi-guerrilla war in history. Except for "Bloody" Tarleton in the Carolinas, the Brits fought relatively cleanly against us, for the simple reason that the rebels were white English-speaking Protestants the redcoats had been going to dances with a few months earlier. That's not how most counterinsurgency armies fight, and it sure isn't typical of British counterinsurgency. Ask the Kikuyu, or the Boers, even the Scots, about that. In the English Civil War, both sides fought pretty clean while it was English-on-English, but when Cromwell's army headed north to crush the Scots' rebellion, they took mighty few prisoners. And when they crossed over to Ireland -- ugh, you don't wanna know.

The Russians, the opponent these armchair guerrillas are setting little Georgia up to fight, aren't even squeamish about massacring their own people, let alone foreign insurgent civilians. You'd think people would know that, after what's happened in Chechnya over the last 14 years of war. The Chechens say they lost at least 100,000 dead in the First Chechen War alone.

Nobody's sure how many have died in the Second Chechen War, but we know they died in really horrible ways, because this was a war between death squads, Russian and Chechen death squads looking for anybody who they thought supported the other side. Those people were snatched, died in sheer agony, and either didn't get found or were dumped where their families could find them, just for the horror of it. And those who survived had sufferings of their own. Rape is basic strategy in this kind of war, and so is burning houses and driving civilian populations from their homes. At least one third of the total Chechen population had to flee their homes at least once.

After years of fighting the Russians, there are so few men of military age left in Chechnya that the insurgents have to drop their Islamic rules and let Chechen war widows volunteer for suicide missions, like the group that occupied a a> theatre in 2002.

By the time a "war widow" is ready to take over a Moscow theatre and plant bombs around the exits, she's seen a lot more than her husband's death. She's lived through something that we can't even imagine. In fact, guys like these so-called experts at Wired seem to be trying real hard not to imagine what would happen to the Georgians if they took this insane advice. It's way more fun, I guess, if you don't think too hard about what you're asking these people to do.

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Gary Brecher is the author of "The War Nerd"(Soft Skull, 2008). Read more of his work at eXiledOnline.com.

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Sarah Palin
Posted by: eran.ru on Sep 13, 2008 12:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She wants to help Saakashvili with weapon and support him when he will decide next time to go to Tskhinvali or Sukhumi.
As we saw in this conflict Russia didn`t destroyed any pipelines or something.And why Saakashvili went to Tskhinvali?Is he crazy?
eran.ru

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» Why Saakashvili attacked... Posted by: IntnsRed
Georgians should remember what Bush 41 told anti-Saddam insurgrents.
Posted by: VetAgainst McCain on Sep 13, 2008 1:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Go ahead and revolt. We'll cover your backs."

Yeah, right. Thousands of Iraqi freedom fighters died when the Republican Guard attacked them with helicopter gunships. Obviously to Big George, "cover your backs" meant shoveling dirt into their graves.

Are you listening, Georgians?

One more thing. I want to thank AlterNet for improving my retired lifestyle.

Since I began commenting on the best progressive blog ever, I've lost all interest in talking-head TV,- such as my former favorites: MSNBC's "Hardball," Keith Obermann's hoot and most recently, the six p.m. program hosted by Rachel Maddow.

I also ignore the Sunday morning shows -- like "Face the Nation" and "Meet the Press." Happily, I've discovered, the print media, online transcripts and investigative Web sites plus AlterNet provide more than enough information to satisfy my curiosity.

I now have more time during the week for writing, gardening, swimming, seeing movies, shopping with my wife and visiting our kids -- to name a few pleasurable afternoon activities..

Then, at midnight before going to bed and after AlterNet posts its newest articles, I'm back on the blog having fun attacking Manchurian Candidate McCain, Appalling Palin and the rightwing GOP.

I even enjoy jousting with LyingHeart -- I mean, LionHeart.

Have a great weekend, everyone!

Vet against McCain
To find out why, click on the links below:

American View
(now my favorite anti-GOP Web site)
Vietnam Veterans Against McCain
(self-explanatory)
Vote Vets
(maintained by Iraq and Afghan war vets)

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» Hugh Scott... Posted by: LionHeart
» RE: LionHeart pls leave Vet Alone!!! Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
FMAinMass
Posted by: FMABBI on Sep 13, 2008 2:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unbelievable! Pretty soon we'll have no allies anywhere. Ms. Palin and the Republicans are acting with such arrogance when they saber rattle about going to war with Russia. Don't they know that more than half this country wants peace? We do NOT support Bush and the Bush Doctrine. We want to HELP other nations and lead by example. We DON'T want to impose democracy on others - we want to shine as examples of what democracy looks like so that others will want to be more like us. I just don't get it - I thought the Republicans embrace Christian principles but it looks like the Democrats are the ones promoting them.

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» Suicidal Madness. Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: FMAinMass Posted by: americansheep
» RE: FMAinMass Posted by: mnascimento
What the Russians need to do...
Posted by: adp3d on Sep 13, 2008 4:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...is make peace with the Georgians, offer to provide more than NATO ever could, like lots of cheap fuel to keep Georgia and any other country that used to be under the sphere of the USSR and promise a peaceful co-existence.

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» RE: What the Russians need to do... Posted by: Captainmagic
It would be nice if the Democrats actually stood up to the foreign policies of
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 13, 2008 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
creating divisions and fighting between two countries whether we're talking India vs Pakistan via nukes, Turkey vs Iraq via insurgents, Mexico vs US via NAFTA, and Russia vs Georgia to name a few. The neocons have no intention of actually improving the country's economy. With neoliberals doing "free" trade and neoconservatives doing wars, both of which pit soldiers and working class folks of both sides against each other while the elites benefit from this needs to be brought up. If you can't compete and be your good self, don't try to hurt someone else. GROW UP AMERICA !

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A better way
Posted by: LionHeart on Sep 13, 2008 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Palins comment that we would be obliged to go to war if Georgia was part of NATO and was attacked is pretty frightening to say the least.

It is this kind of willingness to send people into battle before ANY OTHER measures are taken that result in the downfall of countries. Just ask Russia!

Putin is becoming the major international challenge for any president. McCain sees him for what he is, unlike Bush - a KGB killer. Lets hope Obama doesn't see appeasement as the way here! Next thing you know we'll be battling them in the Gulf of Mexico!

I doubt Outoin can be negotiated with but hitting him in the "oil well $$" is the next best weapon. Europe has to come on board with that or it's Hitlers Germany all over again!

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» RE: A better way Posted by: boing007
» RE: A better way Posted by: LionHeart
» RE: A better way Posted by: boing007
» RE: A better way Posted by: LionHeart
» RE: A better way Posted by: motamanx
Neocons
Posted by: Dregizfon on Sep 13, 2008 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is time we label Neocons for what they are. They are NOT Americans. They are Israeli stooges and should be shipped off to Israel where their true loyalty lies.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Neocons Posted by: ozonehole
» RE: Neocons Posted by: weathered
» RE: Neocons Posted by: BrianOfNairobi
» RE: Neocons Posted by: vot
» RE: Neocons Posted by: danielet
SWOOSH AMERICA IS DUST
Posted by: lifeaholic on Sep 13, 2008 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who will tell the people?

Russia has:

200 ICBM

7 stories underground

each to carry 10 nuclear warheads

each destroys 100-200 mile radius

cannot stop after launch (reason for missiles in Poland?)

2 hours=ARMAGEDDON

clarence swinney

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» No, swoosh, planet Earth is dust. Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: SWOOSH AMERICA IS DUST Posted by: LionHeart
» RE: SWOOSH AMERICA IS DUST...nup Posted by: Captainmagic
LOL
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 13, 2008 7:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think Dictator Bushes head has gotten way too big. I hope he doesnt make the mistake of thinking that Russia is some third world country that can be pushed around like the ones he is used to invading or messing with.

Jiffy
Ultimate Anonymity

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» RE: LOL Posted by: jackyD
moral ground
Posted by: John Edward on Sep 13, 2008 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush and his friends seem to forget that the Georgian forces started shelling civilians and Russian peace keepers. Why the Georgian president would do such a suicidal thing is beyond my understanding.
Russia clearly had to do something and responded as Russians are wont to do. The Georgian military was disabled and humiliated. I suppose they expect the people to throw out their current leadership.
I find Putin's analysis more compelling than anything I have heard from Bush and McCain.
By the way, John, I am not a Georgian! I prefer to be less stupid and thug like.

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» RE: moral ground Posted by: weathered
» RE: moral ground Posted by: Skyie
Here we go again-Sarah goes to war
Posted by: 60sretread on Sep 13, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We encouraged Hungarians(1956), Cubans(1961) to revolt and then didn't provide military support. Hopefully they get the message.
This woman seems DANGEROUS. Bush/Chaney assured us Iraq would be easy. Then they thought about attacking Iran. Now Palin says we may need WAR v RUSSIA to defend Georgia. Russia is a real country with real weapons. I don't see the point of expanding NATO just to show Russis they are now 3rd rate.

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Fight to the last Georgian
Posted by: ozonehole on Sep 13, 2008 8:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US chickenhawks will not be cowed by Russia! They will bravely fight this war to the last Georgian!

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For U.S. leaders, "allies" are actually pawns.
Posted by: andabottleof_rum on Sep 13, 2008 8:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are to be used to serve the agenda of U.S. leaders, despite what perils they face. Their fealty to our empire is expected, and compliance is rewarded with symbolic gestures like praise and affirmations of goodness, even though their societies may suffer.

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We did this before.
Posted by: Arkham42 on Sep 13, 2008 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We turned the Afghan people into a "Hezbollah" like organization back in the late 70's.

Ask the people of New York City how that turned out. Or the people at the Pentagon or those people around that field in PA.

For that matter, all of us who ended up spending a year 'visiting' Afghanistan for that matter.

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It Worked in Afghanistan
Posted by: TomG on Sep 13, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey, it worked in Afghanistan against the Russians — except for a bit of unforeseen blowback.

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Good article!
Posted by: just john on Sep 13, 2008 9:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's very well written and argued.

(Yeah, I'm just cheerleading, with nothing to add.)

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Oh it's a daring game.....
Posted by: peridot on Sep 13, 2008 9:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chickenhawks (read; The American Leadershit) will try to find proxy's to fight. HOWEVER, America does not make war on countries that can defend themselves.

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From Georgian!
Posted by: Skyie on Sep 13, 2008 10:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am Georgian, currently in Tbilisi.

This is probably one of really few best articles I have read about this war. I agree with absolutely everything written by the author.

Let me make it really clear NOBODY expected US/NATO/EU to come and defend us, BUT in the first hours of the Russian invasion I was shocked by the muted reception of the news in the world. They just said "Hey Russia invades Georgia... look here, many Russian tanks..."
What I wanted to hear from the very first minutes this news has broken out was to hear a VERY STRONG CONDEMNATION of this Russian aggression in VERY CLEAR WORDS that those Russian criminals in Kremlin can understand. VERY STRONG DIPLOMATIC/POLITICAL/ECONOMIC pressure TO STOP THE INVASION AT ONCE!

What we got was the statements about "disproportionate use of force..."

But,

Putin was making his point LOUD and clear. He was saying that he simply does not care, Kosovo and Polish missile defence will be hit back by Russia and he stated "Assimetric action will be taking, INCLUDING MILITARY" - In fact he stated this few times. Now what did you expect? That he would just say that he's "invading"? Sure not he was "protecting"... and in general if you look at Russian TV it was "enforcement to peace"

BUT hell look at the facts that were well known and our government as imperfect it may be was TELLING EU/US/NATO that Russians would do this. And everyone was telling our government things like don't worry, Russians would not dare or even don't worry Putin is our man we trust he will never do such a thing.


http://www.michaeltotten.com /archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php

http://www.ireport.com /docs/DOC-65820#

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An Internet observation worth repeating
Posted by: VetAgainst McCain on Sep 13, 2008 10:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yesterday, I saw the following Palin quote with commentary on an anti-McCain website:

"I will go to war with Russia in defense of Georgia." (said during Charlie Gibson intervew
on September 11, 2008). If Palin wasn't lying and wants to start Armageddon, she had better be talking about the "Georgia" north of Florida. Because if Alaska's hockey mom governor was being truthful, she has been hit in the head with a puck one too many times!

Have a great weekend, everyone!

Vet against McCain
To find out why, click on the links below:

American View
(now my favorite anti-GOP Web site)
Vietnam Veterans Against McCain
(self-explanatory)
Vote Vets
(maintained by Iraq and Afghan war vets)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Let's be fair and not invent things Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» Yes, I do agree... Posted by: Hans B
» RE: Well, he is (a warmonger, I mean) Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
Excellent article, but is guerrilla warfare actually an offensive strategy?
Posted by: Hans B on Sep 13, 2008 1:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems to me that guerrillas are always waged on home turf, which means that an occupation or invasion is a necessary precondition. You can't attack a foreign country with guerrilla methods.

While I agree with the gist of this article, one aspect is glossed over: the guerrilla option is sometimes a method of deterrence. Hezbollah did not just fight Tsahal to a standstill, it more especially showed that an invasion of Lebanon costs more than the invading country is willing to bear. But let me give an even better example of a country geared for guerrilla warfare, with low birth rates, no misery, and surrounded by much bigger countries: Switzerland. The Swiss have a draft, even today, and have a lifetime obligation (for men) to have a weapon in their home. The defense forces are organized along militia lines. The idea, which worked during two world wars, was that nobody in his right mind would attack a country where every male citizen was armed to the teeth and trained for resistance.

That does not in any measure weaken the author's argument that armchair warriors should not encourage guerrilla wars from a safe distance.

Re Palin, let's stop spreading the false rumor that she wants to attack Russia. She was simply stating NATO obligations in the hypothetical case that Georgia had joined the organization and was then attacked by Russia. And I see no reason to link her to this neocon guerrilla nonsense. Using false, and demonstrably false, arguments against her candicay only weakens the case.

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A special response to LionHeart who said today that very few Vietnam vets were against McCain.
Posted by: VetAgainst McCain on Sep 13, 2008 6:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FACTOIDS:

In 1992, 50 former POWs signed a letter asking McCain not to stop the Senate's Select Committee on MIAs in Southeast Asia. He ignored the letter, got the hearing shut down and sealed DOD records of POWs and MIAs, including his own. McCain's betrayal of the signatory POWs and MIA family members earned him the "Manchurian Candidate" nickname. LionHeart can rest assured all of those outraged Americans are still against McCain 16 years later.

In 2004, veterans from both political parties formed the national organization, "Veterans for John Kerry." I know because I was a member and went to the meetings. Where I live, we had over 100 vets show up.

Interestingly, in 2008, there is NO similar pro-McCain organization. There are pro-McCain websites, certainly, but no grassroots, boots on the ground outfit doing grunt work for McCain like we did for Kerry.

If you google "veterans McCain," you will get more hits for sources AGAINST the Arizona senator than for him.

On reason is Mccain's puzzling opposition to pro-veteran legislation, as shown by him voting FOR veterans funding bills only 30% of the time (according to a scorecard of roll-call votes put out by the nonpartisan Disabled Americans for America).

Under the same congressional scoring system, Obama has a far superior, 90% rating , even though he has spent a much shorter period of time in Washington.

Said Paul Sullivan, director of the nonpartisan Veterans for Common Sense, “Senator McCain clearly needs to be recognized for his military service and in some respects that will play to his advantage. But when it comes to not delivering health care and benefits during wartime, he’s going to have some explaining to do.” .

Ron Paul's campaign Web site promoted VietnamVeteransAgainstJohnMcCain.con and added the following thumbnail summary: "John McCain: Unfit to serve as Commander-In-Chief. The spoiled son of military privilege got a free ride throughout his military career despite repeated instances of sex scandals and screw-ups..."

VoteVets.org, the largest group of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans with 100,000 members, has consistently opposed the policies of John MCain.

Finally, while I'm on the subject, will someone from AlterNet please explain why the editors prohibit the mention of UnfitMcCain.com in reader comments?

Vet against McCain
To find out why, click on the links below:

American View
(now my favorite anti-GOP Web site
Vietnam Veterans Against McCain
(self-explanatory)
Vote Vets
(maintained by Iraq and Afghan war vets)

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Pretty Weak
Posted by: BrianOfNairobi on Sep 13, 2008 7:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a weak title for an article.

And let's be honest... what a really piss weak article that Gary Brecher has conjured up, specifically designed for an American readership, whom a pitiful few are politically aware of world events, predating on their media-inspired fears of Hezbollah and Muslims in general.

Brecher is a Zionist toady who is fancy with his words but it doesn't take a lot to see through his agenda.

His snidey and devious writing style reminds of that other zionist troll who frequents these threads, Yellow.

Brecher is not a War Nerd he is a zionist creep who cares not for the Georgian people ( who , unfortunately, are led by a CIA-sponsored clown).

The Russians are not the enemy of the people of this world, but they, and the Latin Americans, are the enemy of the warmongering Neanderthals that are presently ruling the USA, UK, and Israel.

It is the latter group who are waging war against humanity with their lies and deceptions through their control of the global media and weak-willed governments and corporations.

Georgia is, sadly, a pathetic pawn of a corrupt and bankrupt west.

Russia is NOT our enemy. Our enemy is amongst us controlling our banks and governments, silently, and not so silently, pushing for war... as they always do.

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» RE: Pretty Weak Posted by: bcgirl125
Sometimes, people like you need to talk sense into these liberal in their yuppy bubble worlds
Posted by: blogbooks on Sep 13, 2008 10:03 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nice use of graphic language and repetition to drive your points home.

War is not pretty, and most nations don't even pretend to fight clean - unlike the United States.

Most people do not understand history. They don't understand hundreds of people impaled through their anus on pikes and left to die as a warning. They don't understand cities wiped from the face of the earth, the earth salted, and rivers diverted over the former site of the city.

Talk some sense into these people...No, talk some HISTORY to these people.

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A Complete and Utter Sideshow
Posted by: David Baker on Sep 14, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Putin says Bush is a good guy who he likes but who is no longer in charge of the White House.

http://www. timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4734894.ece

(I had to make a space after www. because there were too many characters in the link)

White House foreign affairs is being run by the creative/media people at the moment. Georgia is a luke-warm conflict hovering quietly in the media cycle. The Republicans can adjust the temperature depending on how the election is going.

Putin knows the White House is not serious about allowing this to escalate. He must think it's kind of amusing when he sees the self-appointed champions of international freedom and democracy resorting to such tactics in order to keep democracy safe from itself!

BTW That's why Obama appears to be a phony. He knows this is a sideshow but has to pretend he's concerned about it. McCain can puff himself up like a retired wing-commander. As for Palin: she gets to talk tough about it. I doubt her handlers have let her know it's a sideshow yet but you never know.

Watch this dribble away to nothing the moment the election is over.

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» I wish you were right, Posted by: Last Chance
A special response to personal attacks against me by LionHeart
Posted by: VetAgainst McCain on Sep 14, 2008 11:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LionHeart said on another thread this weekend that I was a "fake" veteran.

How dare he!

I served my country honorably during the Vietnam War as a combat crewmember in the 320th SAC bomb wing stationed at Mather AFB, California.

One June 26, 1965, we flew "Arc Light One" -- the Strategic Air Command's first bombing mission of the war. Tragically, while flying through a typhoon at night, the historic operation turned into horror when two B52s from my wing collided and went down in flames, killing eight crewmembers.

Years later, I wrote about Arc Light One in a nonfiction book this way:

To our rear, the second B52 wave, consisting of three-ship cells on five refueling tracks, approached the Air Refueling Controll Points where their tankers should have been orbiting for the refueling rendezvous. To close the gap, the KCs were flying faster than normal and the bombers had slowed.

One cell of B52s used a different method to kill time -― the wrong one. Inexplicably, the three-ship cell made a 360-degree turn and flew through a formation on the adjacent track.

Two bombers from the 320th, one in each cell, collided and went down in flames. At least six crewmembers ejected and made it to the water, a surging maelstrom of churning waves. I knew some guys were alive because I could hear their emergency radio beacons in my headset.

I remember the noise as a high-pitched whine that tailed off at the end, then repeated itself. In my brain, it sounded like “Help me...help me...help me...”

I couldn’t help thinking what a terrible and sad way to die -— alone, soaked and seasick in a one-man dinghy thousands of miles from home.

If I’d been alone in the cockpit, I would have cried.


Imagine how you would feel after living through that experience, and then to be called a "fake" veteran by Lionheart.

I can't begin to express my outrage over such a scurrilous charge, one of many by LionHeart that AlerNet has tolerated despite its policy against personal attacks on other posters.

Vet against McCain
To find out why, click on the links below:

American View
(My favorite anti-GOP Web site
Vietnam Veterans Against McCain
(self-explanatory)
Vote Vets
(supported by 100,000 Iraq and Afghan war vets)

PS: I would love to link up UnfitMcCain.com -- one of the HOTTEST anti-McCain sites on the Web with over one million hits in August, its first month on line --- but AlterNet has apparently prohibited posters from making the connection. Tom Degan tried but AlterNet deleted the link.

Only ONE poster that I know of -- LionHeart -- has complained about UnfitMcCain.com. Without offering proof, he called it a "smear site with no basis or foundation." I can't help wondering if his unfounded allegation has influenced the AlterNet editorial staff.

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» RE: LionHeart - Have a Heart Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
Maybe if Europe quit wasting time calling US voters dumb and actually stood up to Bush's Iraq war,
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 14, 2008 5:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they wouldn't be LOSERS by now. Besides, what does Europe know about the Democrats anyway? Don't me wrong. I commend the populists and the populist-leanings in the Democratic Party. I just can't stand the out of touch wing the caters to the same corporate/military/religious elites that most of the GOP caters to. Europe should SHUT UP and withdraw if they don't like it instead of act like battered spouses caving in and getting flogged again !

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Dirty Work
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Sep 15, 2008 3:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Submitted for your approval: A group of people propose a nation to do something that they're not capable of doing; i.e., adopt a whole new way of living which will disrupt families and alter the sociopolitical landscape. All that is required is to have the population take up arms and hope they come home in one piece.
Sounds easy enough, but when a small and ancient country with a tiny population tries to act like a thug on the block, they might not be prepared to defend itself when the action hits TOO close to home. You, a Tbilisi resident: would you be willing to give up your home, family, way of life just because a foreign power told you so? And you never fired a gun before, much less a machine gun. Would you mind crawling around places on your stomach, dodge bullets AND somehow go home at the end of the day? What will happen if a bomb destroys your home? What will happen if you had a Pat Tillman moment?
What happens if you're captured or killed? What will your family do? Does Georgia have a G.I. plan?
A gueriila war in the Causasus is defintely a very bad idea. Our gangbangers in D.C. only want to use Georgia to do its dirty work. The current administration and its proxies enjoy stirring Russia up. The Russians will not take the bait.
The Georgians need to ask Mikheil Saakashvili some tough questions: Will joining NATO be its salvation? Can you stand casualties, a broken infrastructure, wailing mothers and babies, outlast a Laos-type bombing? Do YOU even WANT to join an organization where half of its members don't believe you'll have anything significant to add? How much longer can you have him in office?
Just research Vietnam and Stalingrad and you'll get an graphic picture of marginal survival.
You'll just be an errand boy in the NATO office. They will not let you sit in and make ALL the more important decisions. C'mon, you're Georgia, NOT England. Membership does not have its privileges this time.
Don't be a fool to do the neocon's dirty work. Your nation is known for its arts, science, agriculture, minerals and long-standing relations with Russia.
Saakashvili and the neocons will make a fatal error if it goads Russia any further.

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Bob from Virginia
Posted by: rmeiser on Sep 16, 2008 10:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author has it wrong in an important respect in terms of why Hezbollah can and has fought: It is not that that are poor and have nothing to lose "in their huts" (how ignorant is that, has he ever been to Lebanon?), it is rather that (1) they suffered through an Israeli occupation for years, and even of more importance, they, though the plurality in Lebanon, had been relegated by the Lebanese theocracy to last class status in the Government, thanks to a 1930's census and Frency colonial imperial fiat at the time. That has now been corrected by the new "constitution".

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Moses David
Posted by: mosesdavid1000@hotmail.com on Sep 16, 2008 6:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article.
Rather like reading a Stephen King horror novel, except it's true. The sheer immorality of this and the arm chair warriors is breathtaking.
How the f**k are we here again????

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Poor generals like incompetent surgeons
Posted by: danielet on Sep 17, 2008 10:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Viet experience taught us lessons Petraeus never learned. Incompetent commanders are like incompetent surgeons, they nicked a major artery with poor tactics and no strategy, and blood is everywhere, nick is hard to find by them. Petraeus used an old First-Aid gimmick, putting a tourniquet north of the bleeder. But all tissue south of bleeder risks gangrene from lack of blood after 15 minutes. Petraeus held back blood too long, our military is rotting in the field. All that can save us now is Maliki's insistence on a date certain for withdrawal in any SOFA accord he signs. Read Woodward, Gen. Casey was right in long run. But in 2004 Americans re-elected the he/she cheerleader to be captain of the football team because it suffers from the "ain't my kid going to Iraq disconnect syndrome...All Vets should fight to stop McCain and his ventriloquist neocon Lieberman from perpetuating gangrene in our Green Machine. WE have no idea if "insurgents" are waiting us out as in Lebanon. Rumsfeld-Gates Pentagon is worse that McNamara Pentagon because it never learns, imposing instead chicken-hawk Cheney lies as substitute for strategy. We old farts don't care about our children and the widows and orphans they leave behind. America is a Viagra "I won't grow" up bunch of geriatric Peter Pans. We will be the best armed Third World country.

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Shakashvilli thought he had bought next President's OK
Posted by: danielet on Sep 17, 2008 10:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shakashvilli thought that he had owned McCain because he bought McCain's foreign affairs "experts" as his lobbyists. So, encouraged by neocons and Israelis, who were hoping to get US forces that much closer to Iran-- remember that Georgian Defense Minister is an Israeli citizen-- he attacked Osseta, expecting Putin to fear NATO backup. The IDF advisers ran out quickly when they saw the Georgian force fold. But US advisers stayed on, 6 dead by what my sources tell me. Russia was begged by Rice not to divulge this Bush embarrassment. But since Bush capitulated to Putin in exchange for secret, we will never get the proof....sounds like everything over the last 8 years?

NATO is now dead and Poles are rethinking ABM deal should McCain not win. AS America gets poor, Israel is infused ever more $$$. But it can survive a cut off of US funds by making peace with Arabs and sci-tech educating Arab youth, leading them out of their one product (oil) Banana Republic status. The US however has no one to turn to for all the powers in the world-- our money lenders-- hate us as bullies and want us cut down to impotent. We must show that we learned and will change so they can lend President Obama the money to save America from the exsanguination it suffered at hands of Bush "entrepreneurs." History will ask: why didn't you put these scum in jail? Answer: because old fart Viagra America sought any prosthetic device to hide that it is too geriatric to "get-it-up." So it sent the last of the mom and dad patriots stupidly to war and didn't call them back because it didn't want its stupidity and incompetence exposed. Republicans are self-serving incompetents who only know how to each eat the Republican sitting on their faces in order to move up. Such cannibalism will only continue under McCain whose only military accomplishment was to be a POW. When he was refused admiral rank he sought to become Commander-in-Chief and, dying from metastatic melanoma only cares about that, even to the gimmick of putting a self-IDed "dog with lipstick" as his VP. WAKE UP AMERICA OLDIES, or you will die in pain, not peace!

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We are all Georgians, Now
Posted by: MisterWu on Sep 18, 2008 12:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stalin must be laughing in his grave.

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