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The Delusion Revolution: We're on the Road to Extinction and in Denial

By Robert Jensen, AlterNet. Posted August 15, 2008.


Our current way of life is unsustainable. We are the first species that will have to self-consciously impose limits on ourselves if we are to survive.

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A version of this essay was delivered to the Interfaith Summer Institute for Justice, Peace, and Social Movements at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver on Aug. 11, 2008. Audio files of the talk and discussion are available online from the Radio Ecoshock Show.

"The old future's gone," John Gorka sings. "We can't get to there from here."

That insight from Gorka, one of my favorite singer/songwriters chronicling the complexity of our times, deserves serious reflection. Tonight I want to argue that the way in which we humans have long imagined the future must be rethought, as the scope and depth of the cascading crises we face become painfully clearer day by day.

Put simply: We're in trouble, on all fronts, and the trouble is wider and deeper than most of us have been willing to acknowledge. We should struggle to build a road on which we can walk through those troubles -- if such a road is possible -- but I doubt it's going to look like any path we had previously envisioned, nor is it likely to lead anywhere close to where most of us thought we were going.

Whatever our individual conception of the future, we all should re-evaluate the assumptions on which those conceptions have been based. This is a moment in which we should abandon any political certainties to which we may want to cling. Given humans' failure to predict the place we find ourselves today, I don't think that's such a radical statement. As we stand at the edge of the end of the ability of the ecosystem in which we live to sustain human life as we know it, what kind of hubris would it take to make claims that we can know the future?

It takes the hubris of folks such as biologist Richard Dawkins, who once wrote that "our brains ... are big enough to see into the future and plot long-term consequences." Such a statement is a reminder that human egos are typically larger than brains, which emphasizes the dramatic need for a drastic humility.

I read that essay by Dawkins after hearing the sentence quoted by Wes Jackson, an important contemporary scientist and philosopher working at the Land Institute. Jackson's work has most helped me recognize an obvious and important truth that is too often ignored: For all our cleverness, we human beings are far more ignorant than knowledgeable. Human accomplishments -- skyscrapers, the Internet, the mapping of the human genome -- seduce us into believing the illusion that we can control a world that is complex beyond our ability to understand. Jackson suggests that we would be wise to recognize this and commit to "an ignorance-based worldview" that would anchor us in the intellectual humility we will need if we are to survive the often toxic effects of our own cleverness.

Let's review a few of the clever political and theological claims made about the future. Are there any folks here who accept the neoliberal claim that the triumph of so-called "free market" capitalism in electoral democracies is the "end of history" and that there is left for us only tweaking that system to solve any remaining problems? Would anyone like to defend the idea that "scientific socialism" not only explains history but can lay out before us the blueprint for a glorious future? Would someone like to offer an explanation of how the pending return of the messiah is going to secure for believers first-class tickets to the New Jerusalem?

To reject these desperate attempts to secure the future is not to suggest there is no value in any aspect of these schools of thought, nor is my argument that there's nothing possible for us to know or that the knowledge shouldn't guide our action. Instead, I simply want to emphasize the limits of human intelligence and suggest that we be realistic. By realistic, all I mean is that we should avoid the instinct to make plans based on the world we wish existed and instead pay attention to the world that exists. Such realistic thinking demands that we get radical.

Realistically Radical

Imagine that you are riding comfortably on a sleek train. You look out the window and see that not too far ahead the tracks end abruptly and that the train will derail if it continues moving ahead. You suggest that the train stop immediately and that the passengers go forward on foot. This will require a major shift in everyone's way of traveling, of course, but it appears to you to be the only realistic option; to continue barreling forward is to court catastrophic consequences. But when you propose this course of action, others who have grown comfortable riding on the train say, "Well, we like the train, and arguing that we should get off is not realistic."


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See more stories tagged with: civilization, biology, evolution, humans, human species

Robert Jensen is a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin and board member of the Third Coast Activist Resource Center. His latest book, All My Bones Shake: Radical Politics in the Prophetic Voice, will be published in 2009 by Soft Skull Press. He also is the author of Getting Off: Pornography and the End of Masculinity (South End Press, 2007).

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Amen...
Posted by: ankhet on Aug 15, 2008 1:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...to "I live daily with "a profound sense of grief." And yet every day that I can remember in recent years -- in the period during which I have come to this analysis -- I have experienced some kind of joy. Often that joy comes with the awareness that I live in a creation that I can never comprehend, that the complexity of the world dwarfs me. That does not lead me to fear my insignificance, but sends me off in an endlessly fascinating search for the significant."

How to live within this "creation" is our task, and we've totally screwed it up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Amen... Posted by: weathered
» RE: Amen... Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Amen... Posted by: blondesprite
» Growing Up in the Universe Posted by: Richard House
Agricultural, Industrial, ... FINANCIAL ... Delusional ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Aug 15, 2008 2:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This piece is right on the mark except for one big piece, the role of money, banking and rapacious debt in the oncoming train wreck that we face.

As we have seen the it has been the role of finance that has shaped the 20th century. The guilded age brought about WWI as the Great European powers spent and borrowed their way into bankruptcy that could only be remedied with the invention of enemies. WWII, the same as the ravages of the Great Depression lead Germany and Japan and later Italy in search of territory to conquer and loot.

It is now finance that intervenes once again. Our coming wars will be efforts to blind us to the fact that we have been bankrupted once again by Wall Street and that no amount of destruction and bloodshed will deter those that control the monopoly of money creation through fractional reserve banking to preserve their pernicious privilege.

It has been through the debt and debenture of neoliberal banking and disaster capitalism that our fortunes have been sanctioned but these instruments of pillage are now turned on our selves. The very framework of the economy, the production and infrastructure are being neglected, torn apart and dismembered to fuel the fires of consumption of the debt created by fractional reserve banking.

The very life blood of our economy, our money, is carrying the disease of our destruction, the financial cancer of the geometric growth of debt caused by fractional reserve banking.

We need money based on the full faith and credit of the people, not borrowed money with interest that enslaves our environment to so called wealth creation and our futures to debt servitude.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» 1914 and all that Posted by: Lloyd Drako
» Mother Jones weighs in . . . Posted by: editnetwork
The best commentator I've found on the arc on civilization, the current peaking of
Posted by: andabottleof_rum on Aug 15, 2008 2:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
complexity, and the impending descent to simpler and simpler forms - punctuated by occasional stabilizations and mini-revivals, followed by further collapse of complexity - is John Michael Greer. He's probably the most profound and impressive mind in the current peak oil discourse.

This is a good article. The anthropological overview of society rapidly morphing upon the advent of agriculture is very valuable. This transition is not nearly discussed enough outside of specialized academic circles; it certainly doesn't play the role in popular leftist political discourse that it should.

Understanding that social inequality and unsustainability grows out of productive activities, which allow self-aggrandizers to concentrate wealth and power, is one of the essential insights for a serious discussion of poverty or environmental degradation. It follows from this insight that inequality and unsustainability are inevitable in a productive economy, as opposed to a more passive foraging economy, which would seem to negate the value of the feel-good simple fixes so often proposed by the political left as well as the right. Hence, perhaps, the general omission of the agricultural and industrial revolutions from popular political debate.

I do have a small quibble with the PC ranking of systems of inequality implied in the author's writing. He invariable lists the problems resulting from the agricultural, industrial, and propaganda revolutions in the order of "patriarch, race . . ." Thus it would seem patriarchy is primary among the world's social problems, race is secondary, and class and empire and war are tertiary, quaternary etc. I'd disagree and argue that it's difficult to say which problems are worst, why, and in what situations.

For example, it could be argued that class is often at least as big of a problem as gender for poor women, as well as poor men, as gender is for wealthy women. Imperialism and war can be as big of problems for rich men in war zones as class is for poor men in relatively stable societies.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Overpopulation is Profitable
Posted by: DrGeneNelson on Aug 15, 2008 3:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The extraction of massive amounts of petroleum - based stored energy is the fuel of the so - called "green revolution." With $4.00/gallon gasoline, more are beginning to grasp the consequences of "peak oil."

The root cause is soaring populations, far in excess of the carrying capacity of the local economy.

We are the only species that can develop an accurate model of the future. http://www.Census.gov shows the current world population at 6.72 billion on 15 August 2008. The world population has doubled in about 40 years. Much of that population growth is the consequence of inexpensive petroleum.

Eventually, the world population will be forced to match available resources. Absent voluntary (or coerced) population control, the means include war, famine, and disease. The latter three are painful.

While there were futurists and environmentalists who raised concerns about U.S. overpopulation in the 1970s, they were shouted down by special interests who understood the concept "overpopulation is profitable." Labor gluts drive down middle-class wages. Population gluts drive up the price of the necessaries of life. Usually, the economic beneficiaries of overpopulation are members of the economic elite.

I remember a bumper sticker from about 40 years ago, "condoms, not condominiums." Will our species understand these concepts before it is too late?

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» RE: Overpopulation is Profitable Posted by: BlammDaddy
» RE: Overpopulation is Profitable Posted by: Last Chance
» Root Cause Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
The best commentator I've found on the arc on civilization, the current peaking of
Posted by: andabottleof_rum on Aug 15, 2008 3:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
complexity, and the impending descent to simpler and simpler forms - punctuated by occasional stabilizations and mini-revivals, each followed by further collapse of complexity - is John Michael Greer. He's probably the most profound and impressive mind in the current peak oil discourse.

This is a good article. The anthropological overview of society rapidly morphing upon the advent of agriculture is very valuable. This transition is not nearly discussed enough outside of specialized academic circles; it certainly doesn't play the role in popular leftist political discourse that it should.

Understanding that social inequality and unsustainability grow out of productive activities, which allow self-aggrandizers to concentrate surplus resources and therefore power, is one of the essential insights for a serious discussion of poverty or environmental degradation. It follows from this insight that inequality and unsustainability are inevitable in a productive economy, as opposed to a more passive foraging economy, which would seem to negate the value of the feel-good simple fixes so often proposed by the political left as well as the right. Hence, perhaps, the general omission of the agricultural and industrial revolutions from popular political debate.

I do have a small quibble with the PC ranking of systems of inequality that is implied in the author's writing. He invariably lists the problems resulting from the agricultural, industrial, and propaganda revolutions in the order of "patriarchy, race . . ." Thus it would seem patriarchy is primary among the world's social problems, race is secondary, and class and empire and war are tertiary, quaternary etc. I'd disagree and argue that it's difficult to say which problems are worst, why, and in what situations.

For example, it could be argued that class is often at least as big of a problem as gender for poor women, as well as poor men, as gender is for wealthy women. Imperialism and war can be as big of problems for rich men in war zones as class is for poor men in relatively stable societies.

[Just had to correct a few typos]

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Nothing's wrong
Posted by: sre on Aug 15, 2008 4:29 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or at least there are no environmental, social or economic problems that the all knowing and all powerful GOVERNMENT of the USA can't handle for the benefit of the whole human population of this green earth.

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» RE: Nothing's wrong Posted by: ATH
REALLY EXTRAORDINARY
Posted by: Last Chance on Aug 15, 2008 5:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cannot find one thing I disagree with in Mr. Jensen's article, not one, and that is astonishing. So, I highly recommend as many people as possible read it slowly and thoughtfully and make decisions on what better ways there are to manage one's life -- while there is time remaining to do so, because even as we read and write, the Pacific Ocean is filling up with the garbage of our growing populations, and how much longer can biosphere Earth live with that?!

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» hyperbole Posted by: edgar1
» Reality. Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: hyperbole Posted by: mobilone
» edgar1 Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» veggiegrrrl Posted by: Last Chance
» Out of sight out of mind Posted by: toddcory
Required Reading
Posted by: Growthbuster on Aug 15, 2008 5:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I share the joy. It brings a smile to my face when I discover yet another critical thinker who understands what the human race is up to. And a bigger smile to discover such an articulate explanation.

The most important part of this message is that 99.9% of us just can't see the forest for the trees. We are so enmeshed in the system that most of the solutions we are considering - even some considered radical - are just tweaks to a system we cannot sustain.

Thank you Robert Jensen! I'll be contacting you to schedule an interview.

Dave Gardner
Producer/Director
Hooked on Growth: Our Misguided Quest for Prosperity
www.growthbusters.com

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time to be kind
Posted by: grmartin on Aug 15, 2008 5:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And time to work on our local networks. We have to work locally to have any effect, and these friends and relationships may be all we have left in the (to put it mildly) not-too-bright future ahead. And starting small is still OK, because that is where the start is.

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A Reminder as You Go
Posted by: kegbot1 on Aug 15, 2008 5:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From a very prescient movie:

"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see?

Business people, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy.

You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

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» Thankyou Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Thankyou Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» inured Posted by: Iconoclast421
Impact of the Fourth Revolution: Information Technology
Posted by: david.model@senecac.on.ca on Aug 15, 2008 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author brilliantly describes how humans evolved to a consumer/capitalistic/patriarchical society which we delude ourselves into believing is sustainable. He omitted a very significant revolution, information, which as the others, accelerated our pace towards ultimate doom unless we escape our delusions.

Information has created a world in which large corporations can operate on a global scale where manufacturing is located in the countries with the cheapest labor thus driving down wages even further.

Information technology has opened the door to the speculative economy where investors divert their money to non-productive investments depriving the real economy of much needed capital. It has also effected the stock market and the concentration of wealth.

As well, information technology has deprived us of some of our civil, political and legal rights. Just look at the 2000 and 2004 elections or the unregulated survellance of citizens.

In addition, it has created a plethora of products such as the increasingly miniaturization of computers, cell phones, and GPS. Their great contribution to consumerism is the much faster rate of both percieved and real obsolecence creating a much greater market for newer generations of these products.

On the bright side, information technology has fashioned a new tool for activists who can now network and plan on a global scale.

Information technology is a very significant revolution in human evolution, one that may accelerate our race towards extinction or generate more hope for awareness and change.

http://www.stateofdarkness.com

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» I agree. Posted by: Last Chance
Why sully the word "revolution"?
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Aug 15, 2008 6:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This isnt a revolution of delusion going on here. This is an attack. It is a scientific dictatorship where the wealthiest elites hired the brightest minds to tell them how to capture the minds of the masses in the most efficient way. That is, the way least likely to fail. It was a 100 year plan. It is this attack that has made humanity unsustainable. If the people of the west had free minds then they would be able to address all the problems we face. We'd have anti-matter and anti-grav power generation systems, which would power desalinization systems and atmospheric water generators and CO2 scrubbers. With eneough energy, nearly all waste products could be catalyzed and eliminated. And the groundwork would be laid for a sustainable future for 100 billion humans. This isn't pie in the sky thinking, it's just following a natural progression. It is what we have now that is not natural. An entire culture of zombies plugged into tv screens, being controlled by finely crafted patterns of flashing lights...

Because we dont have free minds... because we're enslaved by this corporate fascist system... all these other problems present themselves. But most of the problems you mention are merely symptoms. Be sure to look at the cause of these problems. As long as humanity is controlled by an elite that is actively trying to stampede humanity off a cliff, there is no point in blaming the individual buffalo. Like you said, we are animals. And the occult ruling class uses that fact to its maximum advantage.

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» What was that number? Posted by: Last Chance
» If the people knew... Posted by: PeaceWarrior
Serious questions about this article...
Posted by: QuestionAuthority on Aug 15, 2008 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have some very serious questions about this article. Granted, much of what he says is true, though I would dispute some of the reasons that we are in this mess.

My first question is how we can get off the "train" without a major war that reduces us to barbarism or extinction. The reason I aske this is because any unilateral decision on the part of one country to "get off the train" would immediately be used against it by its enemies that still possess high-technology weaopns. Indeed, the author says that he thinks it may not be possible to peacefully change. It's one thing to point out the problems, it's another to provide realistic solutions or paths. I don't see much of that from the author except for a questionably justified sense of faith in humanity.

My second question is how the author proposes to get the fundamentalist religions to go along without their agreement that humans are social animals. Most religions exault humans as the pinnacle of evolution, placed there by their deity. They are not going to change that point of view - look at the so-called "Rapture" movement, for example. They think their god is going to beam them up like Scotty does to Kirk on Star Trek, leaving the rest of us to die horribly. It's a terribly ungodly, immoral and unmerciful point of view, IMHO. They also claim that their 'sacred' writings predict an all-encomapssing war, so they are looking forward to it rather than trying to avoid it. Look at the current fundamentalist Christian-Israeli links as an example.

Third, I question his assertion that we are not foresighted enough to see the future wreck and the unintended consequences of our industrialization. Rachael Carson was talking about some of this in the 1950's. Look at the environmental movements around the globe. There are plenty of concerned people.

So where does this leave us all? For the moment, in a sinking lifeboat where all the occupants are armed to the teeth and blaming each other for the holes in the hull rather than patching the holes.

I fear for my grand children.

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» The purport of Jensen's article Posted by: Lloyd Drako
» Why would you say this? Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Why would you say this? Posted by: suprmark
excellent and articulate article...
Posted by: ellie on Aug 15, 2008 6:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that will be part of a required reading packet this upcoming semester...

there is a Lakota saying 'mitayke oyasin' we are all related, which includes the belief that we are no better then any other person or living entity, including earth itself, and each has an impact on each other, positive or negative...

time for humans to grow up and accept these facts...

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75 Million extra mouths each year and rising
Posted by: stormywindmill on Aug 15, 2008 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again a long drawn out theory and warning of consequences with out delivering the only message we need to absorb and act on , I will start to listen when the first religious/ political leader shouts from the roof top " There's Too many people, tie a knot in it ! "

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» beck- good question. Posted by: veggiegrrrl
BROOMSTICK REVOLUTION
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 15, 2008 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
~JOIN the CALL for a BROOMSTICK REVOLUTION~ A SINGLE AFTERNOON There shall soon be a day whenWe, the People of America,will stand up together as Oneon a Single Afternoon--yes, a Single Afternoon--and shake these criminals from our national lifeas a dog shakes off its fleas. We will show them compassion as human beings—as they would never do for us—but the leash of power will never be put backin their bloodied hands again. Yes, in a Single Afternoon. It CAN be DONE!!And WE CAN do it! Rise shoulder-to-shoulderand heart-to-heartand soul-to-souland physically occupy the corridors of powerin every town, every city,every state,every corporation in America. We ask all PEOPLES OF THE WORLD to join us in their own countries. Yes, on a Single Afternoon. Leave the comfort of your home and join the People in the peaceful retrievalof our own Power and in the re-establishment of the Constitution of theUnited States. Yes, on a Single Afternoon it can be done. By ALL & EACH of us. AMERICA WILL BE AMERICA AGAIN!! -Harvey Arden Re: CALL FOR A BROOMSTICK REVOLUTION Let's collectively decide the day and hour for a peaceful BroomstickRevolution...on, say, a Tuesday afternoon the week before election day inNovember 2008..all those in favor of ending the Iraq War, againstofficially-condoned torture, against 'Patriot' Acts I & II...against thewhole Bush/Neocon strangehold on America and the World...all those who DARETO STAND UP TO INJUSTICE...TAKE A BROOMSTICK AND WALK PEACEFULLY OUT INTHE STREETS OF AMERICA...EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US...GATHER IN FRONT OF EVERYCORPORATE GOVERNMENT FRONT, including the White House, the Pentagon,Military Recruiting Centers, Multinational Corporate HQs etc etc...or juststand outside your house and HOLD HIGH A BROOMSTICK OF PEACE...a trueBroomstick Revolution as enunciated by Seneca Wisdomkeeper Grandma EdnaGordon. KEEP THE PEACE! SWEEP'M OUT!! SAVE AMERICA!!! Below excerpt from VOICE OF THE HAWK ELDER by Seneca Wisdomkeeper GrandmaEdna Gordon...available at www.haveyouthought.com A BROOMSTICK REVOLUTION WE NEED CHANGES in this world, really big big changes. I'm prayin' they'llbe peaceable changes, not violent and bloody ones. I'd like to see apeaceable revolution, a revolution of broomsticks instead of guns.Call it a Broomstick Revolution.That's right. The People pick up their broomsticks and march together andSweep Injustice Out!Make a clean sweep, a big cleanin' like's never been seen before.Broomsticks against Injustice. Now that'll be the day!We'll take our broomsticks and we'll sweep Leonard Peltier right out o'prison, along with all the other Innocents.Yep—a Broomstick Revolution! That's what we need!~Contact Edna at rdgordon@hotmail.com A-ho, brothers, sisters, it's in OUR HANDS...Sweep American clean with BROOM STICKS OF PEACE!

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» RE: BROOMSTICK REVOLUTION Posted by: EinMD
» Second that Posted by: PaulC
» RE: Sorry folks........ Posted by: jeffrey7
A More Succinct Explanation
Posted by: TarryFaster on Aug 15, 2008 7:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I agree with much of what is put forth in this article, I would like to direct the readers to a site I have been working on for more than 15 years. It is a bit more pointed as to the source(s) of our problems--
Click here.

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» I see nothing here Posted by: Lloyd Drako
» RE: I see nothing here Posted by: TarryFaster
» RE: A More Succinct Explanation Posted by: TarryFaster
Of all the crises in the world, he singles out porn
Posted by: PaulK on Aug 15, 2008 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He could have chosen the runaway Arctic methane release and the acidification of the oceans, killing most species on earth.

Or he could have chosen big business's government-approved mass poisoning of the earth's people with carcinogens. A young American's chance of dealing with cancer in her/his lifetime is 1 in 2 now, where it used to be 1 in 1800 before the year 1900. Will we wait until the odds are 9 in 10?

As humans we experiment with sex, which is addictive, and we breeders generally get drawn in to love and marriage and kids (not that gay and lesbian lovers don't wind up with a few kids themselves). Porn seems to be less an earth-ending activity and more a step towards winding up with kids, which is the opposite of earth-ending.

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Finally An article!
Posted by: Godfather89 on Aug 15, 2008 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally an article expressing concern on all fronts of our society. The old society is crumbling and the new world order coming into view is not exactly the brightest thing.

We are going to need novelty and freedom again in the world. We are going to need to take risks and tolerate peoples way of living. We must turn away from the pop culture of extravagance because soon extravagance will have no meaning.

THE PARTY IS OVER
THE DRINKS ARE GONE.
ITS TIME TO GET SOBER,
AND REALIZE WHAT WE HAVE DONE...

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The problem with this guy (Robert Jensen) is...
Posted by: Cathyc on Aug 15, 2008 7:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... he thinks ALL human beings are as dumb-ignorant as Americans (per se). Sorry to have to inform you, Mr. Jensen, but there's another world outside America and its McShit 'Dream'. In other words, there are actually SANE people in the world who have no desire to 'ape' the self-destructive american way of life. None, whatsoever!!!

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The high road to extinction indeed
Posted by: BobbieP on Aug 15, 2008 7:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am puzzled by the singular silence surrounding the nuclear poisoning that is going on nearly worldwide. We got a complete news blackout here while the French Government was crafting the official line on the Nuclear disaster at Tricastin, France.

The expensive, lethal power reactors and war machines that use atomic fission products are dangerous to all mankind. Yet multiple accidents in France are hushed up to protect the bottom line of a company that is already here in the USA busily applying to build reactors. The UK has canceled their 12 Billion Pound contract for reactors, but the USA prefers a news blackout and lunges mindlessly full speed ahead on the reactors from that same French company.

The Germans studied the consequences of fallout. They found that children are significantly affected by living within 100 miles of a reactor: childhood leukemia and other cancers result. They have decided to dismantle their entire nuclear power program. Of course, we all die from radiation but the kids go first, then in 20 or 30 years the adults follow.

We in the USA are killing ourselves and future generations of every living being. We still have strontium 90 in milk, animals, wine, eggs and baby teeth near reactors or in streams of air that carry this pollution worldwide.

Indian Point is leaking radiation, and the big business is trying madly to turn the failing rectors over to a new company to avoid paying the billions of damage they may soon cause if they are not shut down. The deadly reactors are 35 miles from Manhattan. Doesn't that worry anyone?

Google Tricastin. You will get the official cleaned up, minimized story. The water table is radioactive, and you would be better off drinking wine from Chile, at least until Argentina kicks off its nuclear sub building. Read: subs use weapons grade uranium.

When will intelligence and responsibility reassert? Before it's too late? Or is it too late already?

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» Is it too late already? Posted by: Cathyc
» Not About Individual Problems Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
Carol Burns
Posted by: Carol Burns on Aug 15, 2008 7:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for such a wonderfully written treatise on the state of our world. I believe that the movie, "Drivin' Miss Daisy" presents, in a microcosmic sense, what you are "driving at". A slice of Americana, if you will. Daisy, a practicing Jew and a teacher, living the "good life" in the deep South, with a black cook and a black chauffeur. Daisy has an awakening after her temple is burned and is moved to go and hear the Rev. Martin Luther King, leaving her chauffeur in the parking lot. The Rev. King says something about the good people doing nothing and Daisy's face transforms before the camera. It's brilliant. Flash forward. Daisy is losing it, so it seems, thinks she is still a teacher and is late for school. She keeps saying, "I have to tell the children." What message would she have for the children at this stage of her life? What did she neglect to tell them?

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» Driving Miss Daisy Posted by: PeaceWarrior
Thank you, for the truth....
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Aug 15, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While there are many of us that are grounded in reality, daily we face a barrage from the "Christian" right that are sooooo ready for the rapture thinking that "they" will sit by the side of Jesus. I'd like to ask them suppose the rapture has already happened, then shouldn't they strive to ameliorate the reasons why they were left behind? On the other lane of the right there are the "free marketers", that claim the "markets" will take care of everything. Well, we've had that shoved down our collective throats for the last 30 years. The only thing that the markets have taken care of are the pockets of the top 10%, everyone else is just trying to tread water!

And why are so many Americans abdicating the thinking process? Have we just been dumbed down to the point that we can't or won't even pay enough attention to the avarice, lies, and fraud that is being perpetrated on us?!

Look at t.v. ads any given time of the day - I know that you see the lies! ExxonMobile talking about "how much they are doing for" the environment! The ads Sen. McCain are using are based upon lies, and they should insult the intelligence of every thinking person!

Yes, we are facing an assault of our own making from many, many fronts. The way out is not to bury our heads in the sand, or run around screaming about the sky falling in, the way out is to roll up our sleeves and put one foot in front of the other in a positive direction!

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We are not going to go extinct...
Posted by: craigandrew on Aug 15, 2008 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is just a bunch of over dramatized political claptrap from people who don't really understand evolution. The main engine in evolution is the feast and famine cycle. Every feast period ends the same way, and has for millions of years, species over using the resources that they require to survive. Then, the famine comes and decimates the population, but the species does not go extinct.

It is true that we are at the end of a feast period, and it is also true that we will not know what will be required to survive the coming famine until after it happens, but i do know that sitting around screaming doom, gloom, and "the end of times" like crybabies will certainly not be a trait of survivors.

If we lighten up, and pursue the things the we see will be important to survive the coming famine - as individuals - then we will be far more likely to survive. But, please give up on the whole population surviving... that is just not how evolution works.

Have a nice day. C:)

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» RE: to you all... Posted by: craigandrew
» Quite right Posted by: Lloyd Drako
» Be aware of polarizing politics. Posted by: craigandrew
» RE: Overshoot and die-back . . . Posted by: editnetwork
Detour into Porn Destructive
Posted by: goldmarx on Aug 15, 2008 8:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jensen is the first person to ever name a revolution after a porn film: "Delusional". I guess that's one way to plug a Vivid movie that came out in 2002.

Jensen really has no desire to offer any kind of progressive critique of pornography. As a Dworkinite, he is committed to its destruction, not to its criticism. It's like saying "Mein Kampf" offered a critique of Judaism.

If you want to see progressive criticism of porn content, the best place is the Pro-Porn Activist blog run by Anthony Kennerson and other folks associated with socialist-feminist porn star Nina Hartley, who has starred in more adult films and videos than any woman in history.

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Pretty Sad
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Aug 15, 2008 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
isn't it really sad that we have come to the road we are on? We have no one to blame but ourselves. I feel for my kids, kids who will probably pay for our indiscretions. I do feel for them.

JT
Ultimate Anonymity

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» RE: Pretty Sad Posted by: badkitty
Is any of this news ?
Posted by: greatferm on Aug 15, 2008 9:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you not remember the 60's ? This was all really clear then, and Jimmy Carter tried to tell us a little bit of truth, but we preferred the snake-oil salesman who could make us feel good. Ecotopia explored an alternative, but it was just a blip. Every DFH knew the answer then.

My sig line has always been "Homo Sapiens; the only species ever to go extinct by choice" and I see no reason to change it. We're still on that course. I also hypothesize that the reason we have not been contacted by any other species in the universe is because technology is universally fatal.

We could grow up, but nobody wants to do that, that would be no fun at all. The answers are clear, very clear, and quite available, but we reject them.

Next up, the resource wars. Nobody can win, but everybody can die, not with a bang, but with a whimper, as we strangle in our own shit.

Meanwhile, enjoy the last golden age.

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self fufilling prophesy
Posted by: KB72 on Aug 15, 2008 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, if you say we are on the road to extinction, i suppose we are,in your world. Not mine, for while i recognize that we have work to do, my focus of consciousness is on the positive that can come from the process.

Like a kid with a messy room, it is a more productive effort to clean ones room with the idea that it should be done anyway, from a moralistic perspective, and with true involvement, rather than doing in fear of parental wrath.

what we imagine to come true has a bit of a way of occurring. I would rather imagine building a factory of automobiles driven by compressed air technology in my milltown village of people who would like jobs, rather than planning out stockpiles of hoarded foodstuffs. I would much rather plant apple trees to feed my neighbors than fertilize my useless lawn.

"It is the work that allows one to live, joyously, while in a profound state of grief."

Live not in the grief. undefine the ugly, embrace the beauty, and in so embrace the power of our consciousness, or God's power, if you will. Leave behind the green Meme, and look toward self evolution as a path onward.

We don't need to de-construct, we need to just change tracks. but, hard work is at hand, and we can find peace in the work. I am 100% sure of it.

Let's lay down our attachments to fear and distractions. Let's educate ourselves on self- evolution-world evolution and embrace the change.

There is no pre-ordination.

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» RE: self fufilling prophecy Posted by: greatferm
Excellent article
Posted by: leafsong1 on Aug 15, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have no significant disagreements with it.

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The article makes me feel happy and horrified at the same time.
Posted by: HughScott on Aug 15, 2008 9:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Happy that I have witnessed the best days of this world during my 73 years of living.

Horrified that my 14-year-old grandson will experience the terrifying last days of Planet Earth.

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Another gem from Jensen
Posted by: DaBear on Aug 15, 2008 10:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love this guy and I love to spar with him. He's got great insights and some real class-doosies.

One of them showed up here: Given humans' failure to predict the place we find ourselves today, I don't think that's such a radical statement.

Um.... I'm younger than Robert (I think... unless he's a GenXer too) but even I know that's a false statement. Jensen might not have been aware of half the shit going down right now but sonofabitch, batman, BUTTLOADS of writers and artists were making predictions about this shit decades ago. Where the hell was Robert? In his middle-class/owning class academic tower while others were working with their hands, heads and bodies.

Love the piece though. Good fun and a real argument against liberalism and conservatism. Progs are the ONLY people capable of finding solutions to current problems because they aren't afraid the throw out systems that no longer serve them while liberals and conservatives cling to their delusions.

As far as the doom and gloom thing... yeah, I know a lot of owning/middlings who have that funk. We working class people realize it's gonna be some serious shit and lots of us will be cockroach food (more of us at the bottom of the socio-economic heap than from the owning classers to be sure, some things never change). But the difference is, while the middling/owning classers who've awakened from their long privileged nap are depressed "blissfully joyful-depressed" or whatever the fuck their happy-happy class speak calls it at the moment, we at the bottom are faced with two elements of our everyday reality: 1) we will surely be shat upon even more than ever and we are fucking ripshit pissed off about that, not depressed--geezis, some privilege to be depressed or joyful, and 2) we'll do what we always do, be resourceful, dodge, duck, dive, and.... dodge. Chance will determine whether we go extinct or not. More likely nature will weed us back down to a manageable size and hopefully we working people will be among some of that remnant, maybe not. But it's a crapshoot. For us, that's not depressing or joyful, that's just the same old same old, that's our life.

In the meantime, it's back to the dump to scavenge what we can to live one more day on the earth.

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Too Late To Be So Vague
Posted by: evasta7 on Aug 15, 2008 10:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sheesh,

Nice philosophical stuff, but it's too late for such vague nicities. As per his train analogy, it's time to rudely pull the emergency stop and jump off the train!

There is an underlying assumption in this piece that there's enough time for our awareness of these problems to develop enough over the next 'few' years for us to act.

Wrong.

We are out of time and the main issue is how much additional suffering are we going to add to the future and how much are we going to avoid.

We’ve already exceed global carrying capacity. We are now in “overshoot”. Global population is nearing 7 billion. Global carrying capacity is about 2 billion. (This assumes some level of social justice and a moderate, low by US standards, standard of living.) We will get to that 2 billion number the hard way (wars, famine, disease, and their accompanying losses of environmental quality, freedom, and social justice) OR the less hard way (immediately and drastically reducing our population voluntarily).

It’s also far too late for any “us” vs “them” arguments or any belief that national boundaries and national political/economic systems will do much to help anyone. This is a global issue with local and nation-state consequences. Immigration, for example, is a consequence of overpopulation, not a cause of it.

This is a slow motion crash that requires immediate action, a bit like trying to steer a supertanker by putting in consisten input over a multi year time frame, and that input is stop making babies. (And it was oil that allowed us to get this far out on a limb, and peak oil has already happened.)

For more on this I suggest http://www.paulchefurka.ca One of his best at this site is The Elephant In The Room.

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Traditional Culture is Not Evolution
Posted by: VoteHope on Aug 15, 2008 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our intelligence has long been hidden under the seemingly complimentary weight of technological advances and centuries of cultural traditions repeating social-psychological identities, since recorded history. Technology advances, but humanity on a one to one personal level and psychological identity level is the same as it was for the Greeks who believed in Zues. Conservation of cultural traditions, by its nature, preserves old egocentric, ethnocentric, racist, sexist, and religious mythology. Our potential self extinction is our history. More technology is used to geometrically escalate the threat we pose to ourselves every generation and more recently every year. We are the most aggressive and self aggrandizing species, that truly works against our own best interests.

From our religious beginnings of omnipotent fantasies of possible reasons for what we can not control or understand to today’s fragmented, fractionated, appositional, and segmented cultural representations of our species that geographically map out the land masses of the planet, like dogs or other species urinating to stake out their territories, we continue our tradition of primitive primate behavior. We have no humility is the problem. Our identities are centered on our alliance with our inner view of ourselves that becomes superior to other people because of our association with our egocentric gods, who are really alter ego extensions and projections of our own identities, and as groups our countries or national identities. With humility we can and should see ourselves as animals, dangerous animals, that need to use our intelligence more than our hormone driven behaviors, as animals do, to compete, dominate, and control others, resources, and territory, for securing our own self centered interests and genes in the next generation, as all species do.

Only through intelligent separation from our primitive cultural traditions, such as religion, patriotism, and ethnocentrism will we know humility and realize we are animals and start changing our dominant characteristic: the most dangerous life form on the planet, to becoming the most intelligent and humble and progressive life form on the planet.

Until then our cultural traditions have conserved and preserved generation to generation our dysfunctional identities and cultures. This along with progressive technological prowess will only increase our chance for extinction, not progressive and positive cultural evolution that will only come from humility and a real world view of ourselves as one species. All our cultures, that include languages and religions are art forms, and should be seen as great novels or music is, not the basis for intolerance, bigotry, superiority, and the sheer stupidity of war and very possible extinction.

One World.

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» Are we really? Posted by: Cathyc
We had 'self imposed limits' at one time
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 15, 2008 11:10 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK so it was a long time ago and the people wore moccasins at the time. But we had a balanced way of life that kept this country a garden for thousands of years,even though there were a hundred million Indians living here.
We, the dominate culture deemed these good poeple 'godless' and set about ruining this side of the World so we could be more like the Europe we left. A true failure in thinking.
Believing coal and oil was good for the society as a whole was another great lapse in thought,as was nuclear power,atom bombs and
George Bush...1 and 2.
We can pull our collective asses out of the fire by doing a few simple things. One being,stop wasteful production. In the creation of false needs to be met we've created a wasteful society and an over abundance of landfills. Moreover if we planted trees instead of cutting them down we'd give ourselves a more healthy air quality.
If we quit using the Great Lakes and the Oceans as a garbagwe dump we can restore the health of those systems.
We need to start seeing ourselves as 'part' of the Creation and not the apex of it. We need to recognize plants,animals,the waters and the air we breath is just as equal to us as our other humans are.
We just need to reintroduce Logic and Wisdom into all that we do. Knowlege tells us we can make an atom bomb,Wisdom tells us we're fools to use it. Logic tells us if we cut down the forests we'll have space for growth,Wisdom tells us doing so endangers the lives of all living things as well as destroying the very system that cleans and restores our air.
The Planet is ours to save or lose and it'sa far more important choice than who's going to be the next 'puppet president'.

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Voice of reason or servant of power
Posted by: daw13 on Aug 15, 2008 11:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which is Dr. Jensen? He's wll admired by U.T.s very conservative Board of Regents apparently. Based, at least, on how amazingly his salary towers over all other on his faculty. Including some whose activism is not in question. Student activists on campus have been ambivalent for several years concerning where his real commitments lie.

Does it matter if his words are wonderful? You're damned right it matters! The leadership needed must bubble up out of the people.

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» Voice of Reason. Posted by: Last Chance
VHEMT, it's the solution!
Posted by: Frish on Aug 15, 2008 12:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
www.vhemt.org

My decision, made 45 years ago, not to have children, was not only prescient, but the right one.

Humans are wired wrong.

We cannot continue on Planet Earth, have just enough smarts to RUIN the planet, not enough to RUN it.

Oh well, live long and die off!

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"Don't worry. Be happy"?
Posted by: Sojourner on Aug 15, 2008 1:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, some things have changed in the last half century—primarily the doubling of the world’s population. Does pornography contribute to overpopulation? My guess is to the contrary. What else do you need to know about the measure of this “don’t worry; be happy” paean?

I prefer Thoreau’s commentaries on “lives of quiet desperation” and Emerson’s on “silent melancholy” because those show that some things also do not change.

The least this author might do is refer his listeners back to the authentic sources. And maybe then he might admit that he really has nothing new to tell us.

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Well Stated and interesting, but not much new here'
Posted by: leemiller38 on Aug 15, 2008 1:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I figured out that civlization was a 10,000 year mistake back about 1969 or so, I started looking at the library for fellow travelers and found plenty. Marston Bates, "Nature and Man's Fate" as I recall, and "Road to Survival" by William Vogt, published in 1948. Then there was Fairfield Osborn's, "Plundered Planet" in the 1950's. Then came Paul Ehrlich's "Population Bomb", He had figured humans for an evolutionary disaster as an undergrad in the 1950's. The information has been out there for sometime, but alas, most people are ignorant, fertile and hypersexed. Overpopulation is a natural consequence of abundant food and shelter despite the evident crowding and pollution.

From here on out I recommend to all concerned about a gloomy future to donate as much as possible to family planning organizations, such as Planned Parenthood, Engenderhealth, Pathfinder, Americans for UNFPA and organizations fighting to maintain or extend reproductive rights like NARAL and the Center for Reproductive Rights. Your money may prevent a lot of suffering, there will be enough already!
If you love children don't have any.

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Sustainable cities sustainable democracy--the vision thing
Posted by: practical idealist on Aug 15, 2008 1:55 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The End of History
The End Point And The End Game


Prologue:
With the rise of communist China, the advent of peak oil, and an unresolved and unprecedented economic crisis in the United States, it’s not hard to see that history is at turning point. Peak oil and a foundering economy are threatening challenges. But how should we perceive China? The majority of the world’s biggest multinationals have set up shop in China. The world’s capitalists have given China their blessing. So what’s to fear? Well, communists “openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling class tremble at a Communist revolution.” At the heart of Marxism is historical materialism. Here it is not ideas that determine history, but the inexorable push of economic determinism. So are we witnessing a revolution in China, a revolution in means? Do they intend to overthrow capitalism by beating them at their own game? Until they allow dissent, allow proponents of democracy to have their say, they should be perceived as such a threat.
And if so how do we meet that threat? For us, history is determined by our free will as we put forward the ideas that meet the challenges that a changing world presents. Yet up to this point we seem to be at loss. And neither Obama nor McCain, as they seek the White House, has presented a clear strategy either for economic recovery or ideological victory.
So, given the gravity of these issues it’s best that we consider the worst-case Marxist scenario and then consider the practical idealism that can resolve these challenges.


http://theendpoint.blogspot.com/

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Absolutely Terrible Article
Posted by: timbottoms on Aug 15, 2008 5:12 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have no idea what he's trying to say or where he's going with this. He says that "humanity is on a road to destruction" if we don't change our habits, yet provides no ideas or solutions on how to do so. He keeps talking about the "old" and "new" futures, yet provides no definitions for what they constitute. And why dismiss "irrational technological fundamentalism?" We can easily and cheaply make biofuel from algae using recycled waste water, and grow hundreds of times the normal amounts of food we have in glass towers and vertical plastic bags, why don't I see that mentioned? Hell, they built the atom-bomb in three years. Until they figure out a way to defend their lifeboat farms from all the thousands of heavily armed maurading hordes once their apocalyptic dreams come true, could it not be said that people like Kunstler and fellow doomers are just as heavily in denial?

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» Here's a simple "idea" Posted by: SevenStarHand
WOW.
Posted by: nihilozero on Aug 15, 2008 6:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's fantastic that people are starting to recognize the ideas of primitivists and anarcho-primitivists like John Zerzan! I suppose it shouldn't be that surprising that people would start recognizing the value of those ideas, but I am still a little surprised the day has arrived when I can read something like this on a relatively mainstream site like Alternet! Here are a couple of related links on the subject which I think some of you might find interesting:

Another Way of Knowing
&
Primitivism

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» RE: WOW. WOW! Posted by: phoolish
Darwinism and social crisis
Posted by: nemonemini on Aug 15, 2008 6:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is interesting that this article should take on Dawkins. But isn't the real issue, too hot to discuss, that of Darwinism itself, a view of nature that is contributing to the current crisis.
Darwinism and social crisis

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Simple is possible without fragmentation...
Posted by: SevenStarHand on Aug 15, 2008 7:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again, wisdom is the solution here, not retreat into the already proven failures of the past. Focus on improving civilization, not half-baked non-ideas.

Perhaps this generation deserves to be "recycled." That would certainly force the remnant to think a little more deeply. This is a sad, sad, example of what I have feared the most. Far to many people speak well, yet barely think about what they say.

I am utterly disgusted with most of humanity and it's time to go away for a spell. Good luck...

Time to get a clue...

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The lack of Reality of imagined alternatives
Posted by: lufinn on Aug 16, 2008 7:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robert has written a great piece that I would like to add some backup detail to.
For predictable reasons involving human nature and the future inevitability of our cushy and unsustainable lifestyle collapsing, the realities of our society's energy crisis, amongst the myriad other crisis, are being side stepped continually while so-called alternatives that are NOT reality based are being touted as the nation's energy salvation.
It is uncomfortable, it is frightening, it is doom saying. It is happening as we read this.
Over the past hundred and fifty years, our segment of civilization has burned seven hundred years worth of petroleum fuel, at a continuously accelerating rate each year over the last. It is a resource that is almost gone in two aspects. First is the rate at which we consume it and hurl the byproducts into the environment, causing irreparable damage to the earth's climate system that KEEPS US ALIVE! Second is that the real crisis over oil will not begin when the last drop of oil is ceremoniously burned in some weed trimmer, but will occur when more that fifty percent of the populace can no longer afford energy or goods connected with the oil, causing terrible decisions over whether to feed our children or heat the house to keep them from freezing because we cannot afford both any longer. This winter, that will begin here.
It is gong to get worse. It is not going to get better. Yes, there will be tantalizing fluctuations calculated to wag the dog and give small hope while keeping righteous rioters from burning oil companies headquarters and lynching CEO's, but none will have any real substance. All they will serve will be to drive financial markets for profit and have no real effect over the long run on the steady price increases and dwindling supply.
The bad news, no disrespect to Al Gore, is that even if they miraculously installed some new magical carbon neutral alternative and everyone on earth stopped using oil tomorrow at noon, the system would still crash and the environment would take nearly a thousand years to even begin to approach recovery from the abuse we have heaped upon it. The damage that has been done is severe and cannot be listed fully without many pages, so I will mention only a few overwhelming and unsolvable problems.
Massive deforestation of rain and temperate forests, pollution and carbon saturation of our air, pollution of the oceans and over harvesting of them so severely it will lead to probable extinction of most of our food species, and our overpopulation to the point that any major crisis in environment will cause catastrophic loss of human life.
The really bad news is that there are currently NO real alternatives that are workable on the scale necessary to substitute for oil, which Robert has mentioned here.
Every alternative suggested so far has one or more of several problems preventing it from feasibility. The largest of these is that most are reliant upon petroleum for production of a key component and therefore cannot be a real alternative. Pie in the sky energy theory is unworkable.
Solar is out other than small scale home projects for the wealthy. The cells, converters and batteries require mining of elements and high energy production costs, as well as a high reliance upon petroleum products in installation and construction. Ever see a wooden solar panel?
Ethanol is off the list because the large crop sizes are driven completely by petroleum based fertilizers, transportation and processing equipment, and the additional fact that all the ethanol producing plants here are coal powered.
continued next post

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continued
Posted by: lufinn on Aug 16, 2008 7:13 AM   
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Coal is the reason we cannot eat a lot of Atlantic fish any longer due to mercury fallout from coal burning plants. Despite the industry attempts to sell the fantasy, there is NO SUCH THING as clean burning coal. Of course this is in addition to the MASSIVE environmental destruction caused by the mining of it.
Conservation is a good idea, but oil is still going to run out, period. The gas tank is only so big and we are looking at the bottom.
Nuclear is right out. There is no safe method of storing the most hazardous waste products in existence. Since the elements involved are also quite rare, (besides involving petroleum reliant mining processes to acquire them) building more dangerous nuke plants is not a sane option unless you work for the industry, and in that case they imagine it is more safe than cotton candy.
Wind power is based upon finely tooled metal machinery, (mining the ore is petroleum reliant, remember?) it is expensive, complicated, and would need upkeep such as replacement parts made with that same oil processed metals. Even wires used to transmit electricity are petroleum dependent when you consider the plastics for insulation and that fact there are no solar powered metal smelting operations out there.
Examples are continually thrown at us from very small experiments that seem positively miraculous until taken to a scale required to feasibly supply a large city, not to mention a regional or national grid.
At this point, some clever individual will usually try to insert the old republican oil baron talking point about never underestimating the power of human ingenuity, and that every time mankind has confronted this or some similar problem in history, someone invented something that saved us all. This person has a reality based upon Hollywood, not the real world. There is a simple reality check here. I ask that person to name a single event in history that is similar to this type or level of crisis. Surprise! There has NEVER been a problem like this in human history, period. This is NOT a movie where the actor paid to play the clever good guy inventor comes up with the simple, cheap method of producing unlimited clean energy in a tea cup at the last second, saving mankind and our precious American way of life.
Placing all your faith upon a technology that does not yet exist and at this point is not even on the remote horizon is stupid, not ignorant.
We had all better face the unpleasant and grim realities that the following will happen soon, but there is no definitive, pinpointed date:

A- We are soon to suffer a catastrophic loss of our energy and food production and distribution systems.

B- we are about suffering the collapse of our economic system.

C- We are about to lose our wealthy status on the world.

D- We are about to have a massive reduction in our lifestyle, probably a set back to about the early 1800's technologically speaking.

E- We will probably see a large loss of life resulting from the above.

Now is the time to get REAL and begin gardening, preserving food, finding alternative heating and cooking resources on small scales for your family's survival over the next decades or soon the materials to do so will be past acquiring after the system's collapse.

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» RE: continued Posted by: timbottoms
» RE: continued Posted by: lufinn
» RE: continued Posted by: timbottoms
» RE: continued Posted by: timbottoms
» RE: continued Posted by: timbottoms
» RE: carbon neutral Posted by: lufinn
» RE: carbon neutral Posted by: timbottoms
» RE: carbon neutral Posted by: lufinn
» luffin you are wrong Posted by: hopeforthefuture
» RE: luffin you are wrong Posted by: hopeforthefuture
» RE: luffin you are wrong Posted by: hopeforthefuture
» To timbottoms please post some links Posted by: hopeforthefuture
Train analogy
Posted by: Daniel35 on Aug 16, 2008 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only place I find to argue with this article is his train analogy. It's not the track that's at fault, but the continually increasing speed and momentum of the train, and an unforseen curve. Some of us could survive jumping off the train and walking, but that wouldn't make a significant difference in the final crash, which would still hurt all of us.

In reality, each and every one of us are responsible for this crash, and could make some effort to avoid it. Unknown factors could work in our favor also, so maybe our actions, along with others', would be enough to make a big difference. The passengers represent the total momentum of this train. The biospheric system is trying reduce the curve in the track, to maintain equilibrium ("Gaia theory"), but it's not prepared for our speed and momentum. Considering the positive feedback effects of global warming, each of us is actually leaning on the accelerator pedal.

Each of us 'exhales' CO2 in many different ways, some in more ways and greater amounts than others. If we see the coming crash as the end of everything we hold dear, any of us who can't convince at least ourselves that our actions have a net result of reducing the odds of a crash should get off the train, completely off, not just in the baggage car.

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we're on the Titanic
Posted by: lufinn on Aug 16, 2008 12:44 PM   
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If you take a few months and do nothing but read, eat, sleep, and use the bathroom, you might dent the plethora of material enumerating just how big the number of problems threatening the continuance of the majority of human life on the planet is. Impending wars over the last few drops of liquid carbon, fresh water, arable land above sea levels, economic collapse of the global economy, catastrophic loss of a majority of environmental conditions that support our human food chain, etc.
If we were all on a shrinking iceberg with people sliding off the sides as it shrank, it might be a good visual.
The iceberg lasted longer than the Titanic, though, and there is a better analogy.
You are on the Titanic, just after the impact, and the ship is OBVIOUSLY sinking except to those most deluded and deepest in denial. You are in the north Atlantic, in winter, the ship will be submerged in a couple hours, in the frigid water you will only survive minutes, and the closest help is too far away to have any effect on the outcome. Oh, yeah, and there are way too few life boats for everyone.
You see a group of officers passing the captain's hat, each ducking responsibility by passing it to the next and congratulating him on his promotion. (It didn't matter who the captain was after the impact, and it doesn't matter who the president is after this election.)
You stop a passenger and ask them to help you with the last lifeboat, but he tells you one of the officers informed him the crew is downstairs with cases of bubblegum and they are chewing up a storm, and that the hole will be patched in no time at all and the ship will reach NY sooner than anticipated. (The various parts of out government continue to tell us everything is just fine, don't worry, there is no such thing as global warming, and there is lots of oil for years to come.)
You stop another passenger, and she discounts your idea entirely while standing in her expensive ball gown, arguing that the she has been assured you are in no danger, its cold down there in a lifeboat, and there probably isn't any waiting staff to serve her there anyway.
(I don't even want to hear a word about having to unwillingly change to a lower lifestyle.)
You give up on the misinformed masses and after gathering blankets, some food and drink, and some flare pistols, you begin lowering the last lifeboat with anyone of like mind.
It is now moot who or what caused this to be happening, it is now simply a matter of surviving what will be coming down the pike, and not decades from now, actually much sooner.
Brace yourselves.

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» RE: we're on the Titanic Posted by: phoolish
» RE: we're on the Titanic Posted by: lufinn
Population leveling off
Posted by: Romans1 on Aug 16, 2008 5:15 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only reason the populations of some developed nations are breaking even is immigration. The populations of some developed nations, like Germany, are in decline even with immigration. The population of the world is predicted to begin to decrease by 2050. There is no population crisis. Only barriers to the distribution of goods and services, usually in the form of Communist despots.

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» RE: Population leveling off Posted by: timbottoms
Another Great Transformation: disembedding society from capitalism.
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Aug 18, 2008 10:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Karl Polanyi's (http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/polanyi.htm) central thesis, known among sociologists and economic historians, is that capitalism is a historical anomaly because while previous economic arrangements were "embedded" in social relations, in capitalism, the situation is reversed - social relations are defined by economic relations.

While in the past wars and human crises were rooted in economic causes, dreams of empire, and natural disasters, today these events are contrived and exploited for economic gain. We are seeing this right now in resource wars, precipitation of food, drug and health crises, and profiteering from natural disaters. Capitalism takes everything, absolutely everything, and tries to monetize it.

We are witnessing the natural consequences of society trying to disembed itself from the parasite that is capitalism. What system will replace it, I don't know. But the withdrawal is starting to look pretty painful.

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A Generation Too Late
Posted by: kyhardhead on Aug 22, 2008 1:32 AM   
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I guess I should be encouraged to see material like this being posted here. It's as close to the truth as matters at this point, and that it needs saying is made clear by all the other material surrounding it, diluting its message and nearly drowning it out. It'll draw comments for a few days, then gradually - or abruptly - sink into the background.

But that's OK, because the changes predicted or alluded to are coming, willy-nilly, whether we talk about them or not. And all and none of the talk will slow down the coming, nor change it in any meaningful way. This Brobdingnagian cruise ship we're on here in la-la land has been going full steam ahead now for decades, and we've only just begun, on the fringes, to wonder where it's headed. Very few have a sense of how much lead time it takes to make a turn on this thing; and the turn called for isn't just a gentle tack, but an all-out full reverse.

What's happening is that we're starting to come down from our millennial trip, but the cow is way on down the road now, plumb into the next county. The best we can hope for at this point is that some poor lost goat will come wandering through; more likely, we'll have to learn to do without our milk and butter. It's too late to do anything else.

If you got kids, don't waste your time and energy working to send them through college; college is going to be about as useful as the money you supposedly could earn by going there. Teach 'em how to hunt, and fish, and butcher meat, and grow gardens, and build things; teach 'em a trade or how to fix things with their hands. Those are the "skills" that will keep them alive and get them ahead in the new world a-comin'.

And if you believe in those kinds of things, say a little prayer for the rest and peace of Jimmy Carter, the only truly decent man to hold high office in this country, and who tried to tell us, 30 years ago, when it might have made a difference, what was coming.

And you ask why I don't live here -
Honey, how come you don't move?
- R. Zimmerman

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