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Don't Drink the Nuclear Kool-Aid

By Amy Goodman, King Features Syndicate. Posted July 17, 2008.


We can't let the nuclear power industry use global warming as an opportunity to sell its insanely expensive and dangerous power plants.

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While the presidential candidates trade barbs and accuse each other of flip-flopping, they agree with President Bush on their enthusiastic support for nuclear power.

Sen. John McCain has called for 100 new nuclear power plants. Sen. Barack Obama, in a July 2007 Democratic candidate debate, answered a pro-nuclear power audience member, "I actually think that we should explore nuclear power as part of the energy mix." Among Obama's top contributors are executives of Exelon Corp., a leading nuclear power operator in the nation. Just this week, Exelon released a new plan, called "Exelon 2020: A Low-Carbon Roadmap." The nuclear power industry sees global warming as a golden opportunity to sell its insanely expensive and dangerous power plants.

But nuclear power is not a solution to climate change -- rather, it causes problems. Amory Lovins is the co-founder and chief scientist of Rocky Mountain Institute in Colorado. He makes simple, powerful points against nuclear: "The nuclear revival that we often hear about is not actually happening. It is a very carefully fabricated illusion ... there are no buyers. Wall Street is not putting a penny of private capital into the industry, despite 100-plus percent subsidies." He adds: "Basically, we can have as many nuclear plants as Congress can force the taxpayers to pay for. But you won't get any in a market economy."

Even if nuclear power were economically viable, Lovins continues, "the first issue to come up for me would be the spread of nuclear weapons, which it greatly facilitates. If you look at places like Iran and North Korea ... how do you think they're doing it? Iran claims to be making electricity vital to its development. ... The technology, materials, equipment, skills are applicable to both. ... The president is absolutely right in identifying the spread of nuclear weapons as the gravest threat to our security, so it's really puzzling to me that he's trying to accelerate that spread every way he can think of. ... It's just an awful idea unless you're really interested in making bombs. He's really triggered a new Mideast arms race by trying to push nuclear power within the region."

Along with proliferation, there are terrorist threats to existing nuclear reactors, like Entergy's controversial Indian Point nuclear plant just 24 miles north of New York City. Lovins calls these "about as fat a terrorist target as you can imagine. It is not necessary to fly a plane into a nuclear plant or storm a plant and take over a control room in order to cause that material to be largely released. You can often do it from outside the site boundary with things the terrorists would have readily available."

Then there is the waste: "It stays dangerous for a very long time. So you have to put it someplace that stays away from people and life and water for a very long time ... millions of years, most likely. ... So far, all the places we've looked turned out to be geologically unsuitable, including Yucca Mountain." Testifying at a congressional hearing this week, Energy Department official Edward Sproat said the price of a nuclear dump in Nevada's Yucca Mountain has climbed to $90 billion. Slated to go online a decade ago, its opening is now projected for the year 2020. And even that's optimistic. Rep. Jim Matheson, D-Utah, wants to block nuclear waste from passing through Utah entirely, and most Nevadans oppose the Yucca waste plan.

The presidential candidates are wrong on nuclear power. Wind, solar and microgeneration (generating electricity and heat at the same time, in smaller plants), on the other hand, are taking off globally, gaining billions of dollars in private investments. Lovins summarizes: "One of the big reasons we have an oil problem and a climate problem today is we spent our money on the wrong stuff. If we had spent it on efficiency and renewables, those problems would've gone away, and we would've made trillions of dollars' profit on the deal because it's so much cheaper to save energy than to supply it."

The answer is blowing in the wind.

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See more stories tagged with: global warming, nuclear weapons, nuclear power

Amy Goodman is the host of the nationally syndicated radio news program, Democracy Now!

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View:
Don't Drink the Lovins Kool-Aid
Posted by: David Bradish on Jul 17, 2008 12:00 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's the same comment I made over at Amy Goodman's same post at the TruthDig site:

We debated and analyzed Mr. Lovins’ latest nuclear bashing paper over at the Nuclear Energy Institute’s blog. We found that he basically cherry picks his data; his “microgeneration” (which he claims is beating nuclear) is made up primarily of coal and gas plants; and several of the cost data points he uses is based on sources that are weak or non-existent.

Mr. Lovins is well aware of these posts over at our blog and has yet to comment. He tried to defend his work against us over at Gristmill but he quit halfway through and never answered anybody’s comments.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Don't Drink the Lovins Kool-Aid Posted by: David Bradish
Name some Viable Alternatives, Then
Posted by: warreno on Jul 17, 2008 12:41 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rather than whining about how daynjeriss them there nucular plants are, why not suggest some viable alternatives?

Biofuels? Wrong. We need arable land to feed people, not vehicles.

Wind power? Locally viable, but not a solution in many parts of the world.

Solar? Still not all that practical, and also not viable in many parts of the world.

Hydroelectric? Kills rivers and downstream riparian areas.

Hydrogen? Split off from water how, exactly? That still takes energy. Where's the energy coming from to free the hydrogen?

Fossil fuels? Long-term unsupportable, much more so than nuclear.

The US military has been using nuke power for decades, and doing it rather well. To overlook this stable source of energy as we slide into a global energy crisis is foolish, asinine and extremely short-sighted.

Is containment of waste a problem? Certainly it is. But it's nowhere near as big a problem as we're going to have by 2050 when world population is approaching 20 billion and the oil, coal and natural gas reserves are exhausted.

Don't drink the eco-pandering Kool-Aid. It's far more dangerous, and damned selfish besides.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» But... Posted by: warreno
» renewable alternatives ARE viable Posted by: antiapathy
» Good points. Posted by: warreno
Not an infinite suppy
Posted by: millertime on Jul 17, 2008 1:11 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if we were to start a major changeover to nuclear energy, its not a permanent fix. What people fail to realize, or discuss, is that there is not an infinite supply of Uranium 23 to support these plants. There is only so much Uranium out there, and there isn't anymore being produced...ever.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Here we go again
Posted by: rickiey on Jul 17, 2008 4:35 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THe same tired, uneducated criticisms, and the same responses. Allow me to summarize:

What about the waste?

It can be recycled. We already have the technology, we just aren't using it.

It's dangerous, look at Chernobyl

Chernobyl wasn't a power reactor, it was a breeder reactor. They have different purposes, different designs and work differently.

What about 3 mile island?

No one died, got hurt, or got contaminated by 3 mile Island. Less radiation was released than you would get by eating a banana.

Well, they can still blow up

Actually, they can't. 24 isnt real.

It's expensive

True, but it is carbon-free and we can make ENOUGH that we won't need oil for power plants any more

Whats wrong with solar, hydro, wind?

Nothing, except we can't get enough of it. It should be done as well.

It won't help with global warming, cars still run on gas

Yeah, thats another thing that should be fixed. We need to institute the electric car. But there's no need to run power plants on oil when we can run them on nuclear power.

What about yucca mountain repositories ect

What part of "we need to recycle the nuclear waste, instead of storing it somewhere" do you not understand?

I don't want a nuclear plant in my back yard!

Would you like a coal plant, or oil plant there either? No one wants ANY type of power plant in their back yard.

What people fail to realize, or discuss, is that there is not an infinite supply of Uranium 23 to support these plants. There is only so much Uranium out there, and there isn't anymore being produced...ever.

See above comment on recycling. I'll assume your "U-23" is a typo.

There, did I cover everything?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» logic is finally appreciated Posted by: the baron
» Excellent Point-by-Point Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: Here we go again Posted by: jpjmarti
» RE: Here we go again Posted by: Gulliver
» RE: Here we go again Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Here we go again Posted by: lenioui
» oldfreedomdude2 Posted by: oldfreedomdude2
» RE: oldfreedomdude2 Posted by: rickiey
insanely expensive? 30% cheaper than coal
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 5:25 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In both the US and France, nuclear power is 30% cheaper than
coal.
The low carbon source of the electricity has to be nuclear
to replace the base load capacity of coal. Read
"Environmentalists for Nuclear Energy", by B. Comby
English edition, 2001, 345 pp. (soft cover), 38 Euros
TNR Editions, 266 avenue Daumesnil, 75012 Paris, France;
ISBN 2-914190-02-6
order from: http://www.comby.org/livres/livresen.htm
Read a review of this book by the American Health Physics
Society at:
http://www.comby.org/media/
articles/articles.in.english/
HealthPhysics-NUC-July2002.htm

www.ecolo.org
Association of Environmentalists For Nuclear Energy [EFN]

Nuclear power is 30% cheaper than the coal power we have been
duped into using. We have 5000 years worth of nuclear fuel if
we recycle it rather than waste it as we do now. Nuclear is also
the safest, cleanest and cheapest form of energy available.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Dangerous? COAL and Hydro are dangerous. Nuclear is the safest.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 5:35 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Deaths per terrawatt year [twy] for energy industries, including
Chernobyl. terra=mega mega

fuel......... ........fatalities... .....who......... .......deaths per twy
coal......... .........6400...... ......workers........... .........342
natural gas..... ..1200...... .....workers and public... ...85
hydro........ .......4000..... .......public............ ............883
nuclear........ .........31...... ......workers............ .............8

Nuclear power is proven to be the safest. Source: "The Revenge
of Gaia" by James Lovelock page 102.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Amory Lovins worked for the oil industry for decades.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 5:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So isn't Amory Lovins receiving a pension from said
oil company?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

the spread of nuclear weapons
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 5:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
32 countries have nuclear power plants.
9 countries have the bomb, counting North Korea.
32-9=23
What's the matter with those 23 countries that have nuclear power
but not the bomb? Are they reneging on their obligation
to proliferate?

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There is no terrorist threat.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 6:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why terrorists can't rob radioactive materials from nuclear
reactors

Suppose a gang of terrorists tries to do a bank robbery type of
operation against a nuclear reactor. What problems do they
encounter that they wouldn't when robbing a bank?
1. There is no nuclear fuel within reach of any human.
2. The fuel is inside a containment building that is harder to
penetrate than a bank vault.
3. The fuel is inside a machine that was not made for human
access. Fuel isn't something in a fuel tank that the reactor takes
some of each minute. The fuel is an internal component of the
engine. Stealing fuel is more like stealing a piston out of an
engine than siphoning gasoline out of a gas tank. The robbers
would be like somebody trying to steal a piston out of an engine in
a busy Wal-Mart parking lot, not like somebody trying to steal a
cell phone out of an unlocked car in a dark alley. Fuel is removed
and replaced in a reactor at most once a year and often only once
every 10 years. Reactors could be built to be fueled once in the
reactor's lifetime. NASA's RTG reactors are fueled only once.
For example, the power sources on the Voyager spacecraft that
are now exiting the solar system have the same nuclear fuel they
had 30 years ago when they were launched. The Voyagers still
have power. Fuel that is removed from a reactor can be recycled
and put back into a reactor. The volume of the fuel doesn't
change as it is used.
4. The fuel is not like money in several ways:
a. The fuel is radioactive enough to kill the robbers immediately.
b. The fuel is far too heavy for the robbers to carry.
c. The fuel is sealed in steel capsules inside steel rods inside the
reactor core inside a coolant system, etc.
d. the temperature of the fuel is more than hot enough to burn
them.
e. If they got the fuel out, they would have to carry it in lead
containers that would weigh many tons.
f. etc.

To get fuel out, the reactor must first be shut down. The robbers
don't know how. The reactor must be allowed to cool. Cooling
takes time, like days. The fuel can only be removed by a robot.
The robot may not be present. The robbers don't know how to
operate the robot. The robbers don't have a way to move fuel
rods out of the containment building. The robbers would have to
have a big truck with a lead container to carry the fuel in. Big
trucks are not good getaway vehicles, especially when heavily
loaded.
IF the robbers knew how to do all of the required jobs, it would
still take them weeks to rob a reactor. Don't you think somebody
would notice when the people who work at the reactor didn't
come home for a few weeks? Do you think the cops and the
army are going to give the robbers weeks? The result of such an
attempted robbery would be robbers killed by bullets. Guards are
not needed. Fences are not needed. Guards and fences are there
purely because paranoid people want them there. Do not be like
a person who wears an aluminum foil hat to keep the government
from reading his or her thoughts. The government can't read
thoughts anyway, and terrorists can't steal fuel out of a nuclear
reactor.

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» Spectacular! Posted by: LeaderofMen
Al Qida gave up on attacking nuclear power plants.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 6:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All Western nuclear power plants have Containment Buildings
which protect the world outside from anything that can possibly
happen in the core. Western containment buildings are why
Chernobyl cannot happen in the US. Containment buildings are
pressure vessels, unlike the building the Chernobyl reactor was in.
The walls, ceiling and floor are a minimum of 1 meter [about 39
inches] thick and HEAVILY reinforced with steel. There is so
much steel reinforcing rod that when you look at one under
construction, you wonder where there will be any room for
concrete. There is no explosion that could ever happen inside the
core or the containment building that would have any chance at all
of making a hole in the containment building. The containment
building is many times stronger than required to contain any
explosion that could happen there.
Likewise, there is nothing a terrorist could do to a nuclear power
plant that could cause a radiation leak. Just putting a hole in the
containment building would be pointless anyway. Radiation
would not leak out, but the reactor would be shut down while the
hole was fixed.

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Why a Nuclear Powerplant CAN NOT Explode like a Nuclear Bomb
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 6:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bombs are completely different from reactors. There is
nothing similar about them except that they both need fissile
materials. But they need DIFFERENT fissile materials and they
use them very differently.
A nuclear bomb "compresses" pure or nearly pure fissile
material into a small space. There is no other material in the
volume containing the nuclear explosive. The fissile material is
either the uranium isotope 235 or plutonium. If it is uranium, it is
at least 90% uranium 235 and 10% or less uranium 238. There is
no isotope separation problem if the fissile material is plutonium.
These fissile materials are metals and very difficult to compress.
Because they are difficult to compress, a high explosive [high
speed explosive] is required to compress them. Pieces of the
fissile material have to slam into each other hard for the nuclear
reactions to take place.
A nuclear reactor, such as the ones used for power
generation, does not have any pure fissile material. The fuel may
be 2% uranium 235 mixed with uranium 238. A mixture of 2%
uranium 235 mixed with uranium 238 cannot be made to explode
no matter how hard you try. A small amount of plutonium mixed
in with the uranium can not change this. Reactor fuel still cannot
be made to explode like a nuclear bomb no matter how hard you
try. There has never been a nuclear explosion in a reactor and
there never will be. [Uranium and plutonium are flammable, but
a fire isn't an explosion.] The fuel is further diluted by being
divided and sealed into many small steel capsules. The fuel is
further diluted by the need for coolant to flow around the capsules
and through the core so that heat can be transported to a place
where heat energy can be converted to electrical energy. A
reactor does not contain any high speed [or any other speed]
chemical explosive as a bomb must have. A reactor does not
have any explosive materials at all.
As is obvious from the above descriptions, there is no
possible way that a reactor could ever explode like a nuclear
bomb. Reactors and bombs are very different. Reactors and
bombs are really not even related to each other.
Reccomendation: Nuclear power is the safest kind and it just got
safer. Convert all coal-fired power plants to nuclear ASAP. See
the December 2005 issue of Scientific American article on a new
type of nuclear reactor that consumes the nuclear "waste" as fuel.

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There is no such thing as nuclear waste.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 6:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yucca Mountain contains an enormous supply of nuclear fuel that
should not be wasted. We don't recycle nuclear fuel because
spent fuel is valuable and people steal it. The place it went that it
wasn't supposed to go to is Israel. This happened in a small town
near Pittsburgh, PA circa 1970. A company called Numec was in
the business of reprocessing nuclear fuel. I almost took a job
there, designing a nuclear battery for a heart pacemaker. [A
nuclear battery would have the advantage of lasting many times as
long as any other battery, eliminating many surgeries to replace
batteries.] Numec did NOT have a reactor. Numec "lost" a
quantity of reactor grade uranium. It wound up in
Israel. The Israelis have fueled both their nuclear power plants
and their nuclear weapons by stealing nuclear "waste." See:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/
x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreport
s/buriedlegacy/s_87948.html
It could work for any other country, such as Iran or the United
States. It is only when you don't have access to nuclear "waste"
that you have to do the difficult process of enriching uranium,
unless you have a Canadian "CANDU" reactor or a British
Magnox reactor, both of which run on unenriched uranium.
Numec is no longer in business. The reprocessing of nuclear fuel
in the US stopped. That was the only politically possible solution
at that time, given that private corporations did the reprocessing.
My solution would be to reprocess the fuel at a Government
Owned Government Operated [GOGO] facility. At a GOGO
plant, bureaucracy and the multiplicity of ethnicity and religion
would disable the transportation of uranium to Israel or to any
unauthorized place. Nothing heavier than a secret would get out.

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Core Meltdown is NOT possible in the latest generation
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 7:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was by the grace of America engineering that 3 mile island didn't burn like
Chernobyl. American engineers and scientists are very clever people, and they
have spent huge efforts at improving reactor safety. The Soviets just copied our
1944 reactor rather than do the necessary work to make a better reactor. The
former Soviets would do well to copy or purchase our latest technology.

There are two types of 21st century reactors that cannot melt down no matter how
badly they are treated. Safety is guaranteed by laws of physics.
In the pebble bed reactors, stopping coolant flow removes the space between
fuel pellets. The space between fuel pellets must be filled with moving water.
The water is the moderator to slow down the neutrons so that the reaction can take
place. No coolant flow, no reaction. These pebble bed reactors will never
experience a meltdown. It just can't happen because of laws of nature. The US
has 2 pebble bed reactors.
In the recommended and newly invented helium cooled reactor, the core is
made of high temperature [refractory] materials that simply will not melt if coolant
flow ceases. The core is cooled from a higher temperature by heating the
containment building, which also does not melt. The containment building heats
its surroundings in the case of coolant flow loss. The helium cooled reactor uses
helium as the working fluid to turn a turbine. Helium gas is the ideal fluid to turn
a turbine because it can be made very pure so that the turbine blades will last a
very long time.
Safety is assured in all US built reactors by the containment building, which is a
pressure vessel and which, as in the case of the now obsolete 3 mile island reactor,
can and did contain the overheated core. There were ZERO casualties.

American reactors are now too safe. Nuclear power is overpriced because of the
excessive safety. 20,000 to 30,000 Americans die each year because of those
poisons I listed below that come out of coal fired power plants. It is C O A L fired
power plants that kill 20,000 to 30,000 Americans each year. Nuclear power
plants kill ZERO Americans each year. It is COAL burning that will make us go
extinct in about 200 years if we keep doing it.

The problem is that we OVERSHOT on safety design because of people who
protest nuclear power. American reactors are TOO safe. It is C O A L fired
power plants that give you 100 times as much radiation. Coal is almost pure
carbon, except for the URANIUM, ARSENIC, LEAD, MERCURY, Antimony,
Cobalt, Nickel, Copper, Selenium, Barium, Fluorine, Silver, Beryllium, Iron,
Sulfur, Boron, Titanium, Cadmium, Magnesium, Calcium, Manganese, Vanadium,
Chlorine, Aluminum, Chromium, Molybdenum and Zinc that are coal's impurities.
We could fuel our nuclear plants from the uranium and thorium in the smoke and
cinders from coal fired power plants. Coal cinders are an economically viable ore
for several of the listed impurities.

French reactors use American technology that is about 3 decades old.

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COAL fired power plants put 40% of our CO2 into the air
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 7:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Coal fired power plants put 14.7 MILLION TONS of CO2 into the air every
year for each 1000 Megawatts generated for one year. Nuclear plants put ZERO
CO2 into the air. The CO2 cost of building coal vs. nuclear is the same and
negligible. The CO2 cost of mining and transporting coal is large and not
included in the 14.7 MILLION TONS of CO2. The mining and transportation
cost of nuclear fuel is zero since Yucca Mountain is full of fuel that needs to be
reprocessed and put back into reactors. Each 1000 Megawatts of nuclear power
needs so little uranium that you could easily carry an equal weight in a suitcase.
Burning 4 MILLION TONS of coal makes 14.7 MILLION TONS of CO2. As I
have pointed out many times, burning 4 MILLION TONS of coal puts enough
U235 into the air and cinders to fuel a nuclear plant, or enough uranium +
thorium to fuel hundreds of nuclear plants if breeding is allowed.

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COAL contains URANIUM
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 7:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Coal is almost pure carbon, except for the URANIUM, ARSENIC, LEAD,
MERCURY, Antimony, Cobalt, Nickel, Copper, Selenium, Barium, Fluorine,
Silver, Beryllium, Iron, Sulfur, Boron, Titanium, Cadmium, Magnesium,
Calcium, Manganese, Vanadium, Chlorine, Aluminum, Chromium, Molybdenum
and Zinc that are coal's impurities. Coal smoke and cinders are commercially
viable ORE for the above elements.
Chinese industrial grade coal is sometimes stolen by peasants for cooking. The
result is that the whole family dies of arsenic poisoning because Chinese
industrial grade coal contains large amounts of arsenic. Coal varies a lot.
You have to analyze it not only mine by mine but even lump by lump.
Reference:
OUR NUCLEAR FUTURE:
THE PATH OF SELECTIVE IGNORANCE
by Alex Gabbard
Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Oak Ridge, TN
Selections from the 19th Annual Conference
SOUTHERN FUTURE SOCIETY
March 14,15,16, 1996
Nashville, Tennessee

Published by the
SOUTHERN FUTURE SOCIETY
1996
Edited by Jack D. Arters, Ed.D.
Conference Director
The truth is, all natural rocks contain most natural elements. Coal is a rock.
The average concentration of uranium in coal is 1 or 2 parts per million. Illinois
coal contains up to 103 parts per million uranium. A 1000 million watt coal
fired power plant burns 4 million tons of coal each year. If you multiply 4
million tons by 1 part per million, you get 4 tons of uranium. Most of that is
U238. About .7% is U235. 4 tons = 8000 pounds. 8000 pounds times .7% =
56 pounds of U235. An average 1000 million watt coal fired power plant puts
out 56 to 112 pounds of U235 every year. There are only 2 places the uranium
can go: Up the stack or into the cinders.
Since a reactor full fuel load is around 11 tons of 2% U235 and 98% U238, and
one load lasts about 10 years, and what one coal fired power plant puts into the
air and cinders fully fuels a nuclear power plant.
Compare 4 Million tons per year with 1.1 tons per year. 1.1 divided by 4 Million
= 2.75 E -7 = .000000275 =.0000275%. Remember that only 2% of that is
U235. The nuclear power plant needs ~44 pounds of U235 per year. The coal
fired power plant burns coal by the trainload. The nuclear power plant consumes
U235 in such small quantities yearly that you could carry that much weight in a
briefcase.
See also: http://www.ornl.gov/ORNLReview/rev26-34/text/coalmain.html

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Chernobyl was a PRIMITIVE power reactor
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 7:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
on Chernobyl: A friend of mine from Oak Ridge National Lab wrote to me: "The
reactor that had the accident at Chernobyl was very out-of-date (1st generation)
design that has to be precisely controlled to prevent cooling water from boiling.
Water carries away heat and moderates far better than bubbles, and as bubbles
form in water, the reactor goes increasingly unstable. What caused Chernobyl to
blow its top was residual water in the core suddenly going to high pressure steam
and erupting into a steam explosion. Since the building top was simply resting by
its weight on the walls, not a containment vessel at all, the steam explosion
burped the top off its position allowing outside air in, subsequently igniting a
carbon fire." The United States and other Western countries DO NOT now build
and do not now posses or operate ANY reactors of such primitive design. Nor do
we allow containment buildings to have easily removable tops. Containment
buildings in the Western hemisphere are required to be pressure vessels.
The Chernobyl accident released only 200 tons of radioactive material, as
much as a coal-fired power plant would release in 7 years and 5 months. The
Chernobyl accident had a shorter "stack" than coal-fired power plants. The
radioactive material was released in a short time at ground level. That is why the
Chernobyl accident had impact. Only 52 people died at Chernobyl , mostly fire
fighters, a hazardous job in any case. The Three Mile Island incident did NOT
release a noticeable amount of radiation into its neighborhood, it was just
expensive to clean up the inside of the reactor. Nobody died and nobody was
injured at Three Mile Island.

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Subsidies again
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 7:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Subsidies for nuclear power are needed only because of the
paranoid public demand for extremely excessive safety for nuclear
power. The public, especially in the US, has never heard of
natural background radiation, doesn't know that burning coal puts
uranium into the air or cinders, doesn't know that dental X-rays
are radiation, doesn't know that microwaves in their microwave
ovens are radiation, doesn't know that light is radiation, etc. The
public, especially in the US, is generally paranoid of all things
nuclear because of coal industry propaganda and general
ignorance of science. See:
http://www.ornl.gov/ORNLReview/rev26-34/text/coalmain.html
for a list of all the poisons, including uranium, that coal burning
puts into the environment. Most Americans didn't take physics in
high school. NMR [Nuclear Magnetic Resonance] had to be
renamed MRI [Magnetic Resonance Imaging] to get sick people
into the scanner. Apparently, the average American doesn't know
that all matter, including people, is made of atoms and that atoms
have nuclei. Many Americans think that there was a nuclear
explosion in the Chernobyl accident. There was no NUCLEAR
explosion in the Chernobyl reactor because that is physically
impossible. To lower your electric rates: Convince your
neighbors that nuclear power is the safest and allow the nuclear
power plants to lower safety to a reasonable level. Nuclear power
should be much cheaper than coal. The average coal-fired power
plant puts as much radiation into the environment in about 7 years
and 5 months as the Chernobyl accident did. The difference is
that nobody measures the radiation from the coal-fired power
plants. There has been a great deal of progress in reactor design
and safety in the western countries, but there wasn't in the Soviet
Union. The reactors at Chernobyl are first generation and
considered primitive by western standards. The US has 2 types
of reactors in which meltdown is physically impossible. In ALL
American reactors, the Chernobyl accident is impossible. We
just don't build them that badly. Subsidies for nuclear power
plants are required ONLY because of the probability of irrational
people protesting nuclear power.

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Dangers of wind turbines
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 8:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Downloaded from:
http://www.alternet.org/environment/54682/?page=5

"Health, hazard, and quality of life near wind power
installations How Close is Too Close?
Nina Pierpont, MD, PhD*
March 1, 2005
A nacelle (generator and gearbox) weighing up to 60 tons
atop a 265 ft. metal tower, equipped with 135 ft. blades, is a
significant hazard to people, livestock, buildings, and traffic
within a radius equal to the height of the structure (400 ft)
and beyond. In Germany in 2003, in high storm winds, the
brakes on a wind turbine failed and the blades spun out of
control. A blade struck the tower and the entire nacelle flew
off the tower. The blades and other parts landed as far as
1650 ft (0.31 mile) from the base of the tower (Note that all
turbines discussed in this article are "upwind," three-bladed,
industrial-sized turbines. "Downwind" turbines have not
been built since the 1980's.) Given the date, this turbine
was probably smaller than the ones proposed for current
construction, and thus could not throw pieces as far. This
distance is nearly identical to calculations of ice throw from
turbines with 100 ft blades rotating 20 times per minute
(1680 ft)"

And the above is only the so-called tip of the iceberg. If
interested, just google "dangers of wind turbines" - there's
plenty of sites to choose from to learn about the dangers.
The noise alone is inescapable - like water torture.

I watched the 3 YouTube films, "Voices of Tug Hill", and
it's appalling. Greed has no boundaries, no conscience, no
morals, no standards"

No source of energy is risk free, but the poverty caused
by not having energy is a really big killer.

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Wind is too variable. Do you like minute long blackouts hourly?
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 8:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wind energy requires that Direct Current [DC] be transmitted
over enormous areas [more than one continent] to provide
continuous power because wind varies from minute to minute.
Direct current is required because the voltage and frequency of
AC would change minute by minute with wind speed. Long
distance DC transmission requires superconducting cable. DC
just doesn't go far otherwise.
Reference:
http://www.terrawatts.com: Liquid nitrogen is still required.
http://www.alternet.org/environment/69888

Following the http://www.terrawatts.com lead, you arrive at the
statement that the "high temperature" superconductor will be
cooled by liquid nitrogen. See:
http://www.azom.com/details.asp?
ArticleID=942#_When_will_HTS
The need for liquid nitrogen or liquid helium is the Achilles heal
of this scheme. It isn't really a "room" temperature
superconductor. Any accidental warming brings the grid to a
halt. Energy is required to make liquid nitrogen. Dry nitrogen
must be cooled to 77 degrees Kelvin to make it a liquid. [Zero
degrees Kelvin is absolute zero, -273.15 degrees Centigrade.]
Liquid helium is at 4 degrees Kelvin or colder. Superconduction
usually means a requirement for liquid helium. Liquid Helium is
very expensive. The cable has to be thermally insulated and
cooled its entire length. The cable also must be physically
separated into "out" and "return" wires, and the force between the
2 wires will be large. As stated in the article I gave you the URL
of, it won't be cheap.

Any warming above the superconducting temperature or too much
magnetic field will cause the cable to quit superconducting at that
point. The cable will instantly melt, creating an electric arc. All
of the energy that was flowing through that spot will instead be
dumped there, creating an explosion. The power grid will be
disabled for some time since repairing a superconducting cable is
not as easy as splicing a wire. Is this the kind of electric service
you really want? We really don't have the technology yet.

What about storing wind energy as compressed air? Check the
efficiency, the availability of leak proof caverns, etc. Storing
wind energy as compressed air is a pie in the sky. What about
storing wind energy in batteries? We can't make that many
batteries. Another pie in the sky.

Wind energy wastes energy because the wind varies so much that
a "spinning reserve" is required in most locations. If you are
running the steam powered generator at the spinning reserve rate,
you may as well use the steam as your energy source and forget
about the wind. Wind turbines are decorations, not sources of
energy for the grid until we have room temperature
superconductors. There are special locations and circumstances
where wind energy is useful, but wind cannot replace coal and
nuclear any time soon. Nuclear power is the only kind that can
actually take coal fired power plants off line. If allowed to
compete, nuclear power would already have replaced coal fired
power because nuclear is 30% cheaper and 24000 American lives
per year safer.

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There ARE places where the wind blows steadily.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 8:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But those places don't happen to be everywhere.
And they don't happen to be in convenient places.
And the wind doesn't blow hard enough for the power required
HERE. Notice that Finland doesn't need air conditioning.
Neither does Germany. Look on a globe and see
how far north they are.
And Finland may not have as many people who object to any
change, like Senator Kennedy. So just because it works in some
other place that happens to be a special case is no indication that it
will work here. But don't believe me. Go invest YOUR OWN
money in a wind power project and go broke. If you get rich
instead, fine. If T.B. Pickens wants to waste a billion dollars on
wind power, that is fine with me. Put your money where your
mouth is. If you expect other people to invest their money, the
numbers have to work first. Remember that climate has an
impact on whether wind energy will work in a given place.
Europe also has gasoline prices that are twice what they are here,
due to taxes on gasoline. $8/gallon gas just wouldn't work here,
without causing a revolution. Solar panels in Germany have a
government subsidy, and energy requirements in Finland and
Germany are very different than here.

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Solar power for your house
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 8:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A modest house has 200 amps times 115 volts = 23 kilowatts of
electricity connected to it. That would be a house selling for
$150,000 where I live or about $1 Million in Silicon Valley. A 4-
kilowatt solar photovoltaic system costs about $34,000 according
to http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/environment
/2007-08-26-solar_N.htm.
23 kw divided by 4 kw = 5.75
So to get the required 23 kw we need $34,000 times 5.75.
$34,000 times 5.75 =$195,500
The same source also says: "Like wind power, solar energy is
spotty, working at full capacity an average 20% to 30% of the
time."
To be safe, take the 20% which equals 1/5 th of the time, so we
need 5 times as many solar panels to provide a whole day's worth
of energy. If you include off-peak, the 4 KW is reduced. Then
there are cloudy days, etc. $195,500/(1/5) = $977,500. Now we
see that we really need $977,500 worth of solar panels for our
$150,000 house. But I didn't include batteries, control system,
inverter, transformer, installation cost, building permit, the angle
of the sun at my latitude, energy lost in the batteries and
transistors, perhaps rotating the roof to continually face the sun,
etc. Did I do the computation wrong? Perhaps, but what I came
up with is that just solar panels raised the price of my $150,000
house to $1,127,500. If solar panels were subsidized by the
government, you would have to pay the same price, but you would
pay part of it as taxes.

Let's look at the Roof Area Covered: Solar energy from straight
up doesn't happen here, but if it did, the total solar energy onto 1
square yard is about 1 kilowatt. Solar cells are 16% efficient
according to the source above at the present time. We get 160
watts per square yard from our solar cells if the sun is at right
angles to the solar panel. We need 23 kw. 23kw divided by 160
watts/square yard = 143.75 square yards = 1293.75 square feet.
So if the sun is directly overhead of our solar panels, we need
1293.75 square feet of them. That would be 40 feet by 32.34
feet. But the sun is not directly overhead. Guess an angle. The
sine of 45 degrees is about .7. Dividing the 32.34 feet by 0.7 I
get 46.2 feet. So the solar cells cover the whole roof. The whole
roof has to slant southward at the right angle to catch the most
sunlight at winter solstice, or the whole roof has to rotate to follow
the sun. The average house is designed wrong for a rotating roof
that slants in only one direction.


Another source
http://www.wind-works.org/articles/costofiraqwarandwind.html
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=34245
http://www.wind-works.org/bio.html
says that solar costs $10 Million/megawatt and wind costs $2
Million/Mw. That is greatly different from the prices above.
Paul Gipe also says solar works 1000 hours per year and wind
works 2000 hours per year. Since 1 year = 8766 hours, you have
to multiply the solar cost by 8.766 and the wind cost by 4.383 to
get a whole year's worth of energy. So solar really costs $87.66
Million per megawatt and wind really costs $8.766 Million per
megawatt not counting the cost of storing energy and the energy
lost in storage. Since energy conversions are inefficient, having
to convert and store the energy may multiply your costs by 10.

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Solar power again
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 8:36 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://science-community.sciam.com/
blog-entry/Dan-Ms-Blog/
Cost-Solar-Power/300005422

The Cost of Solar Power   From Dan M.'s Blog  
by Dan M.
"One source that seems good is solarbuzz.com(1)(2). From the
name, it sounds like a pro solar energy source, but the data seem
to be realistic.
From the first referenced page at this site, we see that residential
costs have dropped 6% to 37.59 cents/kwH, while
commercial/wholesale costs have dropped 0.6% between July
2000 and November 2007 to 21.37 cents/kwH. "
"For comparison purposes, the wholesale price of electricity was
0.06 cents/kwH. "

Dividing the solar cost by the wholesale grid price, we see that
solar power costs 356.2 to 626.5 times as much as electricity from
the wholesale grid. That is during the daytime. At night, the
cost of solar power is much higher because you have to add the
cost of energy storage, the cost of converting the energy to store
it, the cost of converting the energy back, and all of the
inefficiencies. You would be lucky to get 5% efficiency overall
for stored energy, so multiply by at least 20 purely because of
inefficiency. Double or multiply by some larger number the
capital cost to cover the cost of storage. Solar power is
unaffordable at night.

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microgeneration
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 8:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Generating electricity and heat at the same time"
is called "CO-generation."
Generating electricity "in smaller plants" is a separate subject,
and generally less efficient and dirtier.

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efficiency
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 8:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Efficiency and conservation will help 20% to 30%.
We need to reduce our carbon output 90% by 2050
IN SPITE OF an increasing population.
See my next post.

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» RE: efficiency Posted by: Marlena
A short summary of the book: "Six Degrees"
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 9:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Downloaded from:
http://www.marklynas.org/
2007/4/23/six-steps-to-hell-
summary-of-six-degrees-as-
published-in-the-guardian

'Six steps to hell' - summary of Six Degrees as published in the Guardian
23 April 07:

1ºC Nebraska ...shortened... These innocuous-looking hills were once desert, part
of an immense system of sand dunes that spread across the Great Plains from
Texas in the south to the Canadian prairies in the north. Six thousand years ago,
when temperatures were about 1C warmer than today in the US, these deserts may
have looked much as the Sahara does today. ....shortened... devastating
agriculture and driving out human inhabitants on a scale far larger than the 1930s
“Dustbowl” exodus.....shortened...

2ºC ....shortened...Two degrees is also enough to cause the eventual complete
melting of the Greenland ice sheet, which would raise global sea levels by seven
metres. ...shortened...

3ºC Scientists estimate that we have at best 10 years to bring down global carbon
emissions if we are to stabilise world temperatures within two degrees of their
present levels. ....shortened... 3C may be the “tipping point” where global
warming could run out of control, leaving us powerless to intervene as planetary
temperatures soar. The centre of this predicted disaster is the Amazon, where the
tropical rainforest, which today extends over millions of square kilometres, would
burn down in a firestorm of epic proportions. ...shortened... Once the trees have
gone, desert will appear and the carbon released by the forests’ burning will be
joined by still more from the world’s soils. This could boost global temperatures
by a further 1.5ºC – tippping us straight into the four-degree world.
....shortened...

4ºC At four degrees another tipping point is almost certain to be crossed; indeed,
it could happen much earlier. ....shortened... hundreds of billions of tonnes of
carbon locked up in Arctic permafrost – particularly in Siberia – enter the melt
zone, releasing globally warming methane and carbon dioxide in immense
quantities. ....shortened...

5ºC ....shortened... methane hydrates. This unlikely substance, a sort of ice-like
combination of methane and water that is only stable at low temperatures and high
pressure, may have burst into the atmosphere from the seabed in an immense
“ocean burp”, sparking a surge in global temperatures ....shortened... . Today vast
amounts of these same methane hydrates still sit on subsea continental shelves. As
the oceans warm, they could be released once more in a terrifying echo of that
methane belch of 55 million years ago. In the process, moreover, the seafloor
could slump as the gas is released, sparking massive tsunamis ....shortened...

6ºC ....shortened... end of the Permian period, 251 million years ago. By the end
of this calamity, up to 95% of species were extinct. The end-Permian wipeout is
the nearest this planet has ever come to becoming just another lifeless rock drifting
through space. ....shortened... most of the world’s plant cover was removed in a
catastrophic bout of soil erosion. Rocks also show a “fungal spike” as plants and
animals rotted in situ. Still more corpses were washed into the oceans, helping to
turn them stagnant and anoxic. ....shortened...

One scientific paper investigating “kill mechanisms” during the end-Permian
suggests that methane hydrate explosions “could destroy terrestrial life almost
entirely”.

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EXTINCTION of the Human Race
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 9:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Environmental policy = energy policy
Energy policy = environmental policy
because Global Warming
can lead to Hydrogen Sulfide gas coming out of the oceans.

Hydrogen Sulfide gas will Kill all people. Homo Sap will go
EXTINCT unless drastic action is taken.

October 2006 Scientific American

"EARTH SCIENCE
Impact from the Deep
Strangling heat and gases emanating from the earth and sea, not
asteroids, most likely caused several ancient mass extinctions.
Could the same killer-greenhouse conditions build once again?
By Peter D. Ward
downloaded from:
http://www.sciam.com/
article.cfm?articleID=
00037A5D-A938-150E-
A93883414B7F0000&
sc=I100322
....................Most of the article omitted......................
But with atmospheric carbon climbing at an annual rate of 2 ppm
and expected to accelerate to 3 ppm, levels could approach 900
ppm by the end of the next century, and conditions that bring
about the beginnings of ocean anoxia may be in place. How soon
after that could there be a new greenhouse extinction? That is
something our society should never find out."

Press Release
Pennsylvania State University
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, Nov. 3, 2003
downloaded from:
http://www.geosociety.org/meetings/2003/prPennStateKump.htm
"In the end-Permian, as the levels of atmospheric oxygen fell and
the levels of hydrogen sulfide and carbon dioxide rose, the upper
levels of the oceans could have become rich in hydrogen sulfide
catastrophically. This would kill most of the oceanic plants and
animals. The hydrogen sulfide dispersing in the atmosphere would
kill most terrestrial life."

www.astrobio.net is a NASA web zine. See:

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/modules.php?op=
modload&name=News&
file=article&sid=672

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/modules.php?op=
modload&name=News&
file=article&sid=1535

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/article2509.html

http://astrobio.net/news/
modules.php?op=modload
&name=News&file=article
&sid=2429&mode=thread
&order=0&thold=0

These articles agree with the first 2. They all say 6 degrees C or
1000 parts per million CO2 is the extinction point.

The global warming is already 1.3 degree Farenheit. 11 degrees
Farenheit is about 6 degrees Celsius. The book "Six Degrees" by
Mark Lynas agrees. If the global warming is 6 degrees
centigrade, we humans go extinct. See:
http://www.marklynas.org/
2007/4/23/six-steps-to-hell-
summary-of-six-degrees-as-
published-in-the-guardian

"Under a Green Sky" by Peter D. Ward, Ph.D., 2007.
Paleontologist discusses mass extinctions of the past and the one
we are doing to ourselves.

ALL COAL FIRED POWER PLANTS MUST BE
CONVERTED TO NUCLEAR IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID
THE EXTINCTION OF US HUMANS. 32 countries have
nuclear power plants. Only 9 have the bomb. The top 3
producers of CO2 all have nuclear power plants, coal fired power
plants and nuclear bombs. They are the USA, China and India.
Reducing CO2 production by 90% by 2050 requires drastic action
in the USA, China and India. King Coal has to be demoted to a
commoner. Coal must be left in the earth. If you own any coal
stock, NOW is the time to dump it, regardless of loss, because it
will soon be worthless.
I have no financial connection to the nuclear power industry.

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We don't have time to waste on wind and solar.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jul 17, 2008 9:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great damage has been done, but we still have 7 years before natural positive
feedbacks lead to our extinction. Sea level will continue to rise even if we
disappear right now, but that is "minor" compared to poison gas bubbling out of
the ocean and killing almost everything.
See the chart on page 274 of "Six Degrees" by Mark Lynas. We have until 2015
to BEGIN REDUCING our total CO2 output and we have until 2050 to actually
reduce our CO2 output by 90%. The curve has to start down by 2015, not we
have to think about it by then. The peak of our CO2 production has to happen in
the next 8 years. Sorry, but we can't wait for research, no matter how interesting.
We have to implement what we know right now. The only technology we have
right now to replace coal fired power plants is nuclear power plants. I like solar,
wind, hydro, and geothermal, but all of them together cannot replace the base load
capacity of coal. Sorry, but nuclear is the only option. If we don't follow the
schedule in Six Degrees, we will encounter positive feedbacks which will take the
control of the climate out of our hands. Civilization may fall anyway well before
2050, but we can avoid going extinct by 2100. We have to hold the CO2 level to
400 parts per million to have a 75% chance of avoiding the positive feedbacks.
The natural positive feedbacks are explained in Six Degrees.

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I really love all the people....
Posted by: Marlena on Jul 18, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who reject any solution which wont solve 100% of the problem (whatever the problem is) So they fight and argue, waiting for someone the come up with "the one true solution" and things get worse. A lot of the comments here also argue from the old nuke tech, and totally ignore the new tech. Though some people are aware of it.
There is not one true solution..there are many, and we need them all
OK, question..is electricity now a right?? and if so can it be left to private orgs who need to make a profit??

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Why?
Posted by: the baron on Jul 18, 2008 6:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are the people who know nothing about nuclear energy, the most vocal against nuclear energy?

Also nuclear energy is a controlled process. Nuclear weapons are a violent reaction. Hence the differing effects. Further nuclear power plant if attacked can can be scrammed. In other words emergency shut down in 5 seconds. Where as start-up would take several hours.

As for costs , what costs? On average summing up the total usage of all power plants in the U.S. , we only use ours; per individual plant at 15% out put capacity. Again summarizing all plants together as a whole and dividing their out put equally.

As for the "exploding" thing not going to happen. Reaction occurs with the use of graphite rods, in a vat. When the rods need to be replaced Each one is removed form the vat individually and then individually replaced. While that is going on the rods are raised at a level to decrease energy out put as a safety protocol to control the reaction. While another plant further inserts its' rods into its' vat to pick up on the decreased energy output.

Back to "exploding" you can't sabotage a plant to blow up either, a plant is designed to never work that hard, and at a certain point of energy output will shut down as a safety protocol THAT CAN NOT BE BYPASSED!"

Nuclear is not scary, like guns it does not kill people, people kill people.

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In an age of dwindling fossil fuels, we don't have many alternatives
Posted by: zebrewskie on Jul 18, 2008 2:25 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Concern against nuclear is understandable, but in an age of dwindling fossil fuels - particularly with the concept of peak oil - there simply are not many viable alternatives.

Coal: Dirty and carbon intensive. Forget about it.

Wind: Not always reliable, even in the best of areas. Requires backup power generation (from plants that run off of fossil fuels) to be remotely viable. Wind turbines also performs murder on bird and bat species, requires attentive maintained and replacement of parts (which requires vehicles operated by fossil fuels), and requires large parcels of land to be anywhere effective. We can dot the whole landscape with those things, and still not place a respectable dent into our energy needs. Ask the Germans, who have the world's largest wind farm.

Solar: Solar is great. Solar offers wonderful potential. It is the key to the future. Unfortunately, it's far too ineffective and expensive in it's present form to be anywhere effective; this will require further research, which is being conducted at fantastic speeds.

Hydro: Many of America's best areas for hydro are already in use. There isn’t a lot of room for improvement.

Natural Gas: While America still produces massive amounts of natural gas (85% of our needs), production peaked in 1973. There have been recent production increases from unconventional sources, but these wells tend to be short lived, and likely won't bode well far into the future. Though it's a 'clean' burning fuel, it still emits carbon dioxide.

Nuclear in contrast yields amazing amounts of energy from relatively small amounts of uranium: one cubic centimeter yields as much energy as 60,000 liters of gasoline, 60,000 cubic meters of natural gas, and over 100 tons of coal - and it can achieve this without any CO2 emissions. It's estimated that the energy needs of a family of four can be met with an amount of uranium that can fit in a can of beer. And better yet, there’s plenty of Uranium: huge deposits in Canada, America, Australia and elsewhere

Waste and Disposal can be a problem, but this can be achieved (with proper care) in proper areas of confienment without taking up much space. It's estimated that since the birth of the industry, 9,000 tons of waste have been generated; all of this will fit inside a high school gymnasium, with room to spare. Also, the Yucca Mountain Repository, whenever it's completed, will suffice nicely as waste storage facility.

Understandably, the citizens of Vegas are concerned about Yucca, but that metropolis will see a huge exodus of people in the years to come. Vegas, Phoenix and other large communities of the southwest are highly car dependant societies that were propped up in an era of cheap oil; these cities exist in an area of the country devoid of abundant water, and is a region incapable of immense food production without fossil fuel assistance. The economy of Vegas fiercely depends on tourism - something that will decline in an era of high energy prices. Without a cheap oil platform to keep Las Vegas afloat, particularly among the harsh realities of the desert, 'Sin City' will tragically confront an exodus of citizens in the decade ahead as they flee a city with no future, and a mirage created by the magic of petroleum.

I'm not trying to be mean or harsh with my assessment. I'm by all means NOT a conservative. I am a liberal. I myself once opposed nuclear energy with vehement tenacity. I was convinced about the virtues of nuclear energy - not by conservatives, not by anti-environmentalists, and not by public relations - but by other liberals: James Howard Kunstler, author and peak oil prophet; Patrick Moore, Greenpeace cofounder and a former opponent of nuclear energy.

Also, Nuclear Power hasn't caused a single fatality (except Chernobyl, a disaster that was waiting to happen).

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Jocon
Posted by: jocon on Jul 19, 2008 1:49 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dangerous?
Tell that to those who have lost family down in the coal mines.
The horse is already out of the barn on proliferation. Close our borders to illegals!
People should have been thinking of Prius rather than Hummers decades ago.
This is the ONLY real viable long range solution that can get us appreciable power without killing our planet.I agree with most progressive causes, but not their hatred of Nuclear Power when it is the only long term bet.
The technology is advanced. Plants can be built quickly if they have to be. They can be clones of one another, which reduces cost and they can be safe.

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Just awful
Posted by: Homoousia316 on Jul 20, 2008 6:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sorry, this is just one of the worst articles I've read on alternet in a long time. Poorly written, poorly argued, filled with weasel words and tinfoil hat vocabulary about the energy market. I would expect an unlearned rant by an under-informed paranoid Luddite like this author to be left in anonymous conspiracy theory message boards, not wasting space on my alternet page.

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Sun > Uranium
Posted by: GreyFlcn on Jul 20, 2008 10:24 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. There's a hell of a lot more annual solar power than ALL of our uranium and fossil reserves combined.
http://greyfalcon.net/energy2.png

2. Any Nuclear power that has been built is almost or entirely propped up by a Federal Monopoly.
US, Japan, China, it's only a step away from being a Federal Monopoly. Lavishing their industries with gigantic support programs.
France, Russia, China, India, England, South Korea, Sweden and Germany all run their Nuclear power programs as Federal Monopolies.
http://greyfalcon.net/parenti

3. Building Nuclear power is extremely expensive. While it may be cheap to operate, the upfront capital costs are gignourmous, and rising as they start to get more accurate figures.

4. The previous generation of nuclear power plants caused gigantic bankruptcies. None of the plants were ever delivered on time, or on budget.

5. Nuclear power cannot get private capital financing. Investment banks won't touch it.

6. Nuclear power receives more federal R&D funding than Fossil Fuels and Renewables combined. And has for the last half century. Especially in the past few years.

7. Renewables only get a 1 year at a time approved Tax Credit, which accounts for virtually all of their non-R&D federal financing.
And has been blocked successfully 2005, 2003, and 2001.
So far the extention for 2009 has been blocked by Republican Senators including John McCain, 9 times this year.
Solar stocks are already plunging on the thought that it won't be extended.

8. By comparison Nuclear power gets a whole host of support programs, including a comparable tax credit which has been approved for 8 years.

9. Including Nuclear weapons, over 90% of the Federal DOE budget is for Nuclear.

______

The Alternative

1. Solar Thermal can operate 24/7. It does this by first being sited in deserts, where it almost never has clouds, but primarily it does this by using molten liquified salt to store heat. This heat is then used to turn water into steam whenever you want it. Only 1% of the stored heat is lost per day.
http://greyfalcon.net/solarthermal
http://greyfalcon.net/solarthermal2
http://www.esolar.com/solution.html

2. For long term storage between seasons, you can also make use of compressed air energy storage (CAES). Where you compress air into an underground cave, and then run it through an air driven generator turbine to release that energy on demand.
http://www.livescience.com/technology/080604-pf-caes.html

3. 92x92 miles of Solar Thermal in the desert is all we need to provide enough power for the entire United States grid. 24/7, 365 days a year. Thats 1/3rd the land area we currently have devoted for corn ethanol. And a small fraction of the public land in Nevada.
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/
2008/6/20/143633/019#comment7

4. The above figure comes out to 8464 square miles. We currently have 335,000 square miles of "Warm Desert" in America.
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/
2008/6/20/143633/019#comment7

5. All of this is shooting for around $2000-3000/kW, and falling.
Nuclear is currently around $6000-8000/kW, and rising.
For comparison, the "clean coal" FutureGen project was canceled at $6500/kW because it was far too expensive.

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» So invest your own money in salt Posted by: AsteroidMiner