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Why We Won't See Relief from the Oil Shock Any Time Soon

By Dilip Hiro, Tomdispatch.com. Posted July 17, 2008.


The current oil shock, the fourth in the past 30-plus years and the deadliest so far, shows every sign of continuing for a long, long stretch.

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Last week, after hitting $146 a barrel, the price of crude oil took a sudden, two-day, $9 plunge, based in part on comments by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that an attack on Iran was unlikely and on a mid-Atlantic turn north by Bertha, the season's first significant hurricane, away from the oil-rig- and refinery-rich Gulf of Mexico. It was just long enough for pundits to wonder, hesitantly and somewhat wistfully, whether the global economic bad weather had finally hit the oil market, and whether lowered demand meant that a new (downward) trend was on the way. That was, of course, before the Iranians started lobbing missiles, and traders got edgy about a promised weeklong strike at Brazil's state-run oil giant Petrobras, and the kidnapping of at least one foreign oil worker in the Niger Delta region of Nigeria. By Friday, the "trend" was toast, and the price of a barrel of crude had briefly crested above $147.

Get used to it. As Middle Eastern (which means "oil") expert Dilip Hiro indicates, we've definitively entered the era of "no relief in sight," and there's no turning back now. The author of a vivid history of oil in our world, Blood of the Earth: The Battle for the World's Vanishing Oil Resources, Hiro considers why the present oil shock can't be compared to the three shocks that preceded it and then explores just where the planet is likely to look in the medium term for energy (and global warming) relief.

Energy is obviously going to remain fiercely at the heart of our problems, locally and globally, indefinitely. TomDispatch plans to respond to this essential reality with a range of different perspectives on energy in the coming year.

-- Intro by TomDispatch editor Tom Engelhardt



The Current Oil Shock -- No Relief in Sight
By Dilip Hiro

When will it end, this crushing rise in the price of gasoline, now averaging $4.10 a gallon at the pump? The question is uppermost in the minds of American motorists as they plan vacations or simply review their daily journeys. The short answer is simple as well: "Not soon."

As yet there is no sign of a reversal in oil's upward price thrust, which has more than doubled in a year, cresting recently above $146 a barrel. The current oil shock, the fourth of its kind in the past 3½ decades and the deadliest so far, shows every sign of continuing for a long, long stretch.

The previous oil shocks -- in 1973-'74, 1980 and 1990-'91 -- stemmed from specific interruptions of energy supplies from the Middle East due, respectively, to an Arab-Israeli war, the Iranian revolution, and Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. Once peace was restored, a post-revolutionary order established, or the invader expelled, vital Middle Eastern energy supplies returned to normal. The fourth oil shock, however, belongs in a different category altogether.

Nothing Like It Before

Unlike in the past, the present price spurt has been caused mainly by global demand for energy outstripping available supply. Alarmingly, there is no short-term prospect that supply will match demand. For a commodity like petroleum that underwrites and permeates every aspect of modern life -- from fuel to fertilizers, paints to plastics, resins to rubber -- "balance" requires a 5 percent safety factor on the supply side.

At present, however, spare capacity in the oil industry is less than 2 percent, down from more than 6 percent in 2002. As a result, the price of oil responds instantly to negative news of any sort: a threat against Iran by an Israeli Cabinet minister, a fire on a Norwegian offshore drilling rig, or an attack on an oil facility by armed rebels in Nigeria.

Behind the present price surge, other factors are also at work. Take the subprime mortgage crisis in the United States. It flared almost a year ago, drastically lowering the market value of the stocks of banks and allied companies. The concomitant downturn in other equities led investment fund managers and speculators to direct their cash into more productive markets, especially commodities such as gold and oil, driving up their prices. The continued weakening of the U.S. dollar -- the denomination used in oil trading -- has also encouraged investment in commodities as a hedge against this depreciating currency.

The earlier oil shocks led non-OPEC (Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries) nations to accelerate oil exploration and extraction to increase supplies. Their collective reserves, however, represent but a third of OPEC's 75 percent of the global total. By the turn of the century, these countries had pumped so much crude oil that their collective output went into an irreversible decline.

A mere glance at the oil production table of the authoritative BP Statistical Review of World Energy, published annually, shows declines in such non-OPEC countries as Britain, Brunei, Denmark, Mexico, Norway, Oman, Trinidad and Yemen. Over the past decade, oil output in the United States has declined from 8.27 million barrels per day (bpd) to 6.88 million bpd.

The exploitation of the much-vaunted tar sands of Canada -- expected to cover the global shortfall -- only helped to raise that country's output from 3.04 million bpd in 2005 to 3.31 million bpd in 2007, a mere 10 percent in two years.

In the 1990s, overflowing supplies and cheap oil had led to an overall decline in oil exploration as well as under-investment in refineries. These two factors constitute a major hurdle to hiking the supply of petroleum products in the near future.

In addition, new hydrocarbon fields are increasingly found in deep-water regions that are arduous to exploit. The paucity of the specialized equipment needed to extract oil from such new reserves has created a bottleneck in future offshore production. The world's current fleet of specialized drill ships is booked until 2013. The price of building such a vessel has taken a five-fold jump to $500 million in the last year. The cost of crucial materials -- such as steel for rigs and pipelines -- has risen sharply. So, too, have salaries for skilled manpower in the industry. Little wonder then that while, in 2002, it cost $150,000 a day to hire a deep-water rig, it now costs four times as much.

Static Supply, Rising Demand

While the oil supply remains essentially static, worldwide demand shows no signs of tapering off. The only way to cool the energy market at the moment would be to reduce consumption. Luckily -- from the environmentalist's viewpoint -- soaring gasoline and diesel prices have begun lowering consumption in North America and Western Europe. Gasoline consumption in the United States dropped 3 percent in the first quarter of 2008, when compared to the previous year.

When it comes to energy conservation, there is a far greater opportunity for saving in the affluent societies of the West than anywhere else in the world. An average American uses twice as much oil as a Briton, a Briton twice as much as a Russian, and a Russian eight times as much as an Indian. It was therefore perverse of U.S. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman to focus on the way the Chinese and Indian governments subsidize oil products to provide relief to their citizens -- and to urge their energy ministers to cut those subsidies to "reduce demand."

It is true that China and India, which together account for two-fifths of the human race, are now major contributors to the growth in global oil demand. But it's an indisputable fact that only by increasing per capita energy consumption from current abysmally low levels can the Chinese and Indian governments hope to lift hundreds of millions of people out of grinding poverty.

In a country like India, for instance, half of all households lack electricity, so hurricane lanterns, fueled by kerosene, are a basic necessity. Subsidized kerosene, also used for cooking stoves, helps hundreds of millions of poor Indians. To cut or eliminate the subsidy on kerosene would only intensify poverty.

In truth, when it comes to energy conservation, the main focus at the moment should be on the 30-member Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), a group of the globe's richest nations, which cumulatively consumes nearly three out of every five barrels of oil used anywhere.

Among OECD members, Japan provides a model to be emulated.

Japan's Exemplary Performance

When it comes to energy conservation, Japan provides a glaring counterpoint to the United States. Consider what's happened in both countries since the first oil shock of the mid-1970s, when prices quadrupled.

That price hike initially led to a drive for fuel efficiency in the United States, Western Europe and Japan. It also gave a boost to the idea of developing renewable sources of energy. Ever since, Japan has followed a consistent, long-range policy of reduction in petroleum usage, while the United States first wavered and then fell back dramatically.

Under the presidencies of Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter, the United States modestly improved the fuel efficiency of its vehicles, as stipulated by a federal law. President Carter also announced a $100 million federal research and development program focused on solar power and symbolically had a solar water heater installed on the White House roof.

During the subsequent presidency of Ronald Reagan, when oil prices fell sharply, energy efficiency and conservation policies went with them, as did the idea of developing renewable sources of energy. This was dramatized when Reagan ordered the removal of that solar panel from the White House.

In the private sector, utilities promptly slashed by half their investments in energy efficiency. President George H.W. Bush, an oil man, followed Reagan's lead. And his son, George W. (along with Vice President Dick Cheney, former chief executive of energy services giant Halliburton) has done absolutely nothing to wean Americans away from their much-talked-about "addiction to oil."

Even now, instead of urging Americans to cut oil usage (and putting a little legislative heft behind those urgings), politicians of both parties are blaming soaring gas and diesel prices on "speculators," conveniently ignoring how thin a line divides "speculators" from "investors."

In Japan, on the other hand, the government and private companies have stayed on course since the First Oil Shock. Despite the doubling of Japan's gross domestic product during the 1970s and 1980s, its annual overall levels of energy consumption have remained unchanged. Today, Japan uses only half as much energy for every dollar's worth of economic activity as the European Union or the United States. In addition, national and local authorities have continually enforced strict energy conservation standards for new buildings.

It is, again, Japan that has made significant progress when it comes to renewable sources of energy. By 2006, for instance, it was responsible for producing almost half of total global solar power, well ahead of the United States, even though it was an American, Russell Ohl, who invented the silicon solar cell, the building block of solar photovoltaic panels, which convert sunshine into electricity.

What to Do: Medium-Term Solutions

Worldwide, over half of all oil is used for transport. Though we instantly associate a car or truck with an internal combustion engine (ICE), it was not always so. At the turn of the 20th century, cars were also powered by steam engines or batteries.
Now, our salvation lies in finding a way back to the pre-ICE era. It is incumbent upon the automobile companies in rich nations to accelerate the process of divorcing vehicles from the internal combustion engine. Cars of the future can be powered by batteries, hydrogen cells or solar panels -- or a combination of the above.

Typically, Japanese companies are in the forefront of research and development on this. It was Toyota that first introduced a "concept" hybrid car in 1995, combining batteries with the internal combustion engine, and began mass-producing them some years later.

This June, Honda set up an assembly line for producing a hydrogen-powered car, the FCX Clarity. This model already can travel 280 miles on a tank of liquid hydrogen. But it will go into mass production only after there is an infrastructure of liquefied hydrogen stations in place in Japan and in California, which will take time. So far there are only 13 hydrogen stations, funded by the government, in the Tokyo area. Meanwhile, aware of the enormous cost of its product, it is initially planning to lease the FXC Clarity to drivers for $600 a month.

Another Japanese corporation, Mazda, has come up with a hybrid car using hydrogen cells as well as an internal combustion engine.

As the mass production of non-ICE cars takes off in rich nations, the cost will fall, and such models will find markets in the fast-expanding (yet comparatively poor) economies of China and India.

Medium Term: The Nuclear Option

Besides powering transport, oil is a major source of fuel for electricity-generating plants. With even Royal Dutch Shell CEO Jeroen van der Veer conceding publicly that we are nearing peak oil production (after which oil reserves will decline irretrievably), attention is increasingly turning, in the West, to coal and nuclear power as medium-term solutions.

The very mention of nuclear plants revives nightmarish memories of the partial meltdown of a U.S. reactor at Three Mile Island in Pennsylvania in 1979, and the catastrophic burning of the Chernobyl nuclear plant in Ukraine in 1986. On the other hand, nuclear stations now provide 79 percent of France's electricity and have, so far, been accident-proof. That country's leading nuclear company, Areva, expects to sell 100 power stations, fueled by third-generation Evolutionary Pressure Water Reactors (EPWR), worldwide by 2030.

Areva also heads a consortium that is building the first nuclear power station in Europe in more than a decade -- in Finland. On nuclear waste management and safety, the Finnish nuclear authority Posiva seems to have found a workable solution. After 12 years of public debate, it has allowed the construction of a $3.5 billion nuclear plant equipped with an EPWR reactor, on an offshore island.

The new plant is designed to last 60 years, twice the average life of a nuclear power plant today. If its control rods should fail, triggering a core meltdown, a special basin of concrete will be there to hold the debris, thus theoretically preventing the release of radioactive material. The nuclear waste will then be set in cast iron, encased in copper and dropped down a borehole, half a kilometer deep, which would, in turn, be saturated with bentonite, a kind of clay. According to Posiva's metallurgists, under such conditions the copper barrier should last a million years.

Once this station is commissioned, nuclear-fueled electricity will rise from 27 percent to 37 percent of the total on the Finnish national grid.

So acute is the demand for electricity in India that three nuclear power stations are to be commissioned this year. Once on line, however, these plants will make but a marginal difference in meeting Indian energy needs. Only coal, which abounds in India, can help meet exploding demand, as is true in coal-rich China. There, an electric plant fueled by (dirty, conventional) coal is being commissioned every week.

Medium Term: Cleaner Coal

In the hydrocarbon family, coal is the least efficient energy source, providing only half as much energy as oil while producing twice as much carbon dioxide (CO2). But coal has the longest history of supplying energy to modern societies, and as the 21st century began, it was still one of the leading fuels for power plants worldwide.

Today, coal provides 28 percent of electric power globally, only marginally less than in the 1970s. Countrywide, percentages vary widely -- from 20 percent in the United States to four times as much in China.

Because coal isn't going away any time soon, the challenge is obviously to burn coal more efficiently and, at the same time, capture its CO2 emissions before they reach the atmosphere. One possible solution to coal's polluting problems lies in producing de-carbonized coal -- that is, in converting coal into petroleum products, thereby also reducing demand for crude oil. A hybrid technology involving de-carbonizing natural gas or coal already exists. In a coal-fired integrated gasification combined cycle (IGCC) facility, coal is broken up, extracting the hydrogen and leaving behind the carbon. Next the hydrogen is burned, emitting heat that drives the electricity-generating turbines, while carbon, in the form of liquefied CO2, is stored underground or under the seabed.

But, at the moment, an IGCC station needs one-fifth more coal as fuel than a conventional plant just to produce the energy needed to power the carbon-capturing mechanism. The price of the electric power thus generated would be a third to a half higher than that from dirty coal.

On the other hand, according to the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the CO2 capture and storage (CCS) system could someday provide up to 55 percent of the emissions reduction needed to avoid the worst effects of global warming. Last month, the G8 energy ministers, meeting in Japan, called for the launch of 20 large-scale CCS projects globally by 2010. Soon after, the British government invited four leading European companies to submit tenders for such a project in the United Kingdom.

At the recent oil summit in Jeddah, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced that his country would work with Saudi Arabia on perfecting the technology for carbon capture. The United States and Australia are already committed to advancing this technology with public funds. As it gets cheaper with frequent application, it will become affordable for countries like India and China.

With oil supplies peaking in the coming years and uranium following a similar path as the present century unfolds, the weight of humanity's needs will increasingly fall on coal. It is coal, for better or worse, that will provide the energy to sustain higher living standards for a growing segment of humanity, even as the search for, and development of, renewable energies proceeds at a faster pace. Last week, recognizing this reality, the G8 summit renewed its commitment to advance carbon capture and storage systems with all due speed.

This, in a nutshell, is the global energy future in the medium term. It is the reality we face.

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See more stories tagged with: iran, iraq, oil, energy, gas prices, petroleum, oil prices

Dilip Hiro's forthcoming book is The Iranian Labyrinth: Journeys Through Theocratic Iran and Its Furies. (Nation Books).

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Oil for electricity production?
Posted by: rrk70 on Jul 17, 2008 4:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had no problem with this article until I got to this statement.

"Besides powering transport, oil is a major source of fuel for electricity-generating plants. With even Royal Dutch Shell CEO Jeroen van der Veer conceding publicly that we are nearing peak oil production (after which oil reserves will decline irretrievably), attention is increasingly turning, in the West, to coal and nuclear power as medium-term solutions."

Just exactly where is oil used as a "major source of fuel electricity-generating plants?" Not in the US. Not in Western Europe. There are virtually no oil fired generating stations of any consequence in the US. The island of Nantucket, year around population 10,000, has one, and there are a few other isolated small plants in the northeast, but to make such a brazenly false statement calls into question the credibility of the whole article.

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A $9 drop...
Posted by: Marlena on Jul 17, 2008 6:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in the price of a barrel of $146 oil is not a "plunge" or any of the other words being used to describe a minuscule price fluctuation..now if it had dropped $100 THAT would be a plunge. Quit grasping for straws!! You are drowning

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Welcome to the next ice age
Posted by: solrev on Jul 17, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article is correct about one thing; there is no magic energy wand. So do not get your hopes up. The biggest problem we face is the political money distribution system. Ethanol was a good welfare program for agriculture, however as an energy source it is a government boondoggle. There is a lot of money being dumped out there for researching alternative energy. This piecemeal approach is not going to bear fruit for another 20 or 30 years. We need a DOE that is not run by politicians. If one would set down assume the best possible outcome for any research path, list the pros and cons, and assess the probability of best outcome, then make decisions we could get more bang for our buck. For instance the DOE put up 130 million for hydrogen and fuel cell research. There are two places to get hydrogen, water or hydrocarbons, so you can see why a good oil boy like Bush sees a new oil market. The laws of physic state that it will take more energy to get the hydrogen than the hydrogen contains. While the pollution benefits of fuel cell vehicles is with out question do you really want our concrete jungles producing water vapor. Talk about messing with mother weather. The immediate problem in the US is coal and you are not going to stop China from going down the path of least resistance. Rule one, no coal fired emissions released into the atmosphere. How do you make that happen in the US and China at a cost China will buy? We need to stop take a look around, see what’s going down, and then solve the biggest problem first. This is not going to happen with our political money distribution system. So most of you are going to get your wish, when the next ice age comes half or more of you will be history. Maybe the next interglacial people will do better than us. I know it will not happen in your lifetime, but we mystics believe the sins of the father are visited upon the son. For you rational people the interpretation is; the future always pays for the past.

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It ain't an oil shock. Oil prices have been rising this entire decade for the most part.
Posted by: maxpayne on Jul 17, 2008 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This author is a complete DUMBASS to think that this is a mere “oil shock” when in fact, gas prices have been rising this entire decade unlike any other. Back in 1980, after the 1970s energy crisis, if Mr. Hiro had actually gotten his facts straight, he would have been smart enough to point out that all America did was simply “borrow” oil from the MidEast and try to procrastinate. The so-called “oil glut” of the 1980s and even the 1990s was nothing more than a bloopity blob of BORROWED OIL called “Oil Capital”. When that was coming home to roost, BIG GOVERNMENT propped up lies to wage a war on Iraq for its 3rd largest oil reserves to AGAIN procrastinate. And of course, it went out of its ways to allow Big Business to manufacture fuel INefficient technologies and promote wasteful consumer spending with all those “goody tooshy points for every dollar spent” crap just like the Orwellian 1980s and 1990s. Except this time, it’s all failing big time. In the mean time, not only has America written off solar and wind for the most part by buying into the lies of it not meeting them high energy demands most of which could be corrected by rewarding conservation and make technologies more fuel efficient, they’re even willing to DROWN themselves into more desperate ideas such as offshore drilling based on incorrect numbers on the amount of oil, regardless of quality, that can possibly be tapped or even going nuclear which is just as dangerous and resource hungry. On the other hand, neither the far right or even the progressives and liberals want to come to grips with the fact that a harmless plant such as hemp can completely replace petroleum and that instead of engaging in more expensive and dangerous oil drilling which could prove even more costly now that crude oil, the good type, is getting harder to find, why not give hemp a chance to be grown and put to 26000 environmentally friendly industrial uses for a change?

http://www.votehemp.com

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Exactly why should the retail price drop?
Posted by: billwald on Jul 17, 2008 8:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Econ 101: price increases 50%, sales drop 8%. Ergo, price to low.

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We need to get OFF oil...
Posted by: Pirate1 on Jul 17, 2008 8:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not find ways to get it cheap again so we can return to our comfortable patterns. Burning the stuff is altering the atmosphere and oceans of the only planet we have, or have you all forgotten? In order for life as we know it continue, and remember, that includes us, we need to be a lot more brave about the changes and stop whining about things not being like they were any more. I hope oil prices double! Maybe that will light the fire under our collective asses to demand from our government that they stop their hootchie cootch with big oil and coal and start funding some of the brilliant new technologies that await funding in order to be viable for mass use... that don't require maintaining the mechanisms of empire to "defend our interests" in other countries that have the nerve to be living on top of "our oil".

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PIPEDREAMS
Posted by: edgeofnowhere on Jul 17, 2008 10:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Erroneously seeking some magic technological solution that will replace petroleum in order to continue our wasteful lifestyle is not going to happen. Read THE LONG EMERGENCY by Kunstler and THE PARTY'S OVER by Heinberg to understand what is happening. No matter how much money you throw at alternatives, nuclear, "clean" coal, hydrogen etc, they cannot provide the energy necessary for the increasing growth of the planet's population. We WILL face decreasing supply and increasing consumption in the near future, and the results are not going to be pretty. Iraq is just a preview of our future, as nation-states desperately attempt to secure the remaining carbon-based fuel supplies at any and all costs. The reality is that this planet cannot sustain 6 billion inhabitants dependent on fossil fuels. Individually, we can endeavor to realign our lifestyles with the inevitable reality and hope to survive. Collectively, the governments of the planet will squander what is left and fight wars to control dwindling supplies. Batten down the hatches, mates --- storms be coming.

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A Fine Product.....
Posted by: Jenny73 on Jul 17, 2008 1:11 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The middle and working class are starving and big oil is profiting. Bush's New Economy.....

Just found an interesting video diary on the economy and gas prices.

http://www.shootandrunproductions.com/rsrt2gallery4.htm



If McCain gets elected this country is going to look like Argentina.... :(

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» RE: A Fine Product..... Posted by: edith
» RE: A Fine Product..... Posted by: macdon1
Why are the Green complaining, their wet dream has come true?
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist on Jul 17, 2008 1:22 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not understand the Ecologists, fundamentalist Green. They have since i was a teenager in 1973 told me and us that we have to have higher prices on oil so that we stop consume oil. they have always wanted the growth economy, capitalist economy to completely collapse.

Their wish has now come true. And instead of rejoicing they are complaining even more.

It is the same socialist or ecologists, they are against all kinds of societies. Even there own, its not pure enough, not radical enough.

Look on Mao and his Great Leap and his Cultural Revolution.

Greens and socialist want to start with chaos. In fact I think somebody Naomi Klein's idea about Shock Doctrine, disaster Economics was correct. She however choose the pragmatic and slowly evolving economic theory and called i Shock when it is in fact socialism and Ecologist that need a revolution, total upheaval and disaster to come to place.

But socialist and ecologist have always been Orwellian, uses New speak. With peace they mean war, with progress they mean destruction and disaster is fulfillment.

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ba
Posted by: mnstra on Jul 17, 2008 1:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great article Tom, but is there any reason why you don't propose reducing national speed limits.?
Trucks 55mph. cars 60mph and 55mph around all cities on interstate highways.
It can save gas right away reduce consumption which reduces greenhouse gases and demand , that will bring oil prices down, It amazes me how all the writers on this subject overlook that amazing immediate amelioration to the current energy crisis.I have lived through the 1970s and experienced that reduced demand result.
The enforced 55mph limit helped immensely back then.

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» RE: ba Posted by: donl51
» Of course, Officer Posted by: edith
Gas prices...
Posted by: pizzmoe on Jul 17, 2008 3:28 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will not come down. The precedent has been set, and the oil companies are making record profits, so why lower prices? i do not believe this has anything to do with supply and demand.
I would still like to know what took place in Darth Cheney's secret energy meetings.

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» RE: Gas prices... Posted by: edith
High prices?
Posted by: evilhobz on Jul 17, 2008 5:48 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sick of listening to how Americans are now suffering from high prices of gasoline. We pay over $7 American a gallon in Australia, and yet you winge at $4. It's about time America feels the costs most of the world pays. Maybe they'll stop using 25% of the world's oil when they are only 5% of the worl population. But it just shows again the belief of America being the "best" - regardless of what political spectrum you're on.

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» RE: High prices? Posted by: HelperMonkey
» RE: High prices? Posted by: Asses of Evil
No nuclear accidents in France?
Posted by: Quincytree on Jul 18, 2008 2:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did you say no nuclear accidents in France??? There have been two within a week. In no country has the problem of disposing of nucleear waste been solved!!!

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HYDROGEN SOLVES IT ALL
Posted by: powerguy555 on Jul 19, 2008 10:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see some negative assumptions about hydrogen here. I believe hydrogen is the right way to go. I would like to provide some cut-and-paste of some well-known postings of others, on the internet, which counter some of the points against H2:

“Hydrogen beats batteries, biofuel and all other vehicle power solutions:

A. Hydrogen can be made at home and requires NO NEW INFRASTRUCTURE. Anybody who says it can’t be made at home or work is either a shill or completely out of touch with reality and technology. You can make it for free, at home, all day long and all night long. The production can be powered by solar, wind, microbes and other free sources. The volume of H2 produced “IS” enough to charge solid state H2 containers. The metrics quoted by the anti-hydrogen crowd are just lies to protect their competing business interests.

B. It now costs less to make hydrogen from water than any known way to make gasoline and it continues to get cheaper every month: The GE Noryl system, The R4 processor and over a hundred different systems can do this NOW; with many more expected next year. The “battery shill” spin has worn thin and has been supplanted by facts. Hydrogen is made from WATER via solar energy, wind energy, microbes, radio waves, sunlight and salt, and other FREE sources of energy. Hydrogen can also be made from any organic garbage, waste, plants or ANYTHING organic via lasers, plasma beams or dozens of other powered exotics which can be run off of EITHER the grid or the free hydrogen made from solar energy, wind energy, microbes, radio waves, sunlight and salt, and other FREE sources of energy OR the grid. There is no oil that needs to be involved anywhere in the production of hydrogen. These systems trickle charge hydrogen into storage containers, either tanks or solid state cassettes, 24/7. GE, ITM Power, QSI, U of Korea and 30 others have this year announced technologies that make H2 hundreds of times more efficiently than any other energy solution.

C. Tens of millions of dollars are being spent by battery companies like A123, Cobasys, AltairNano, etc. in order to discredit hydrogen because hydrogen works better than batteries. A large number of “pundits” who act as “writers”, “bloggers”, “authors” and “non-profit evangelist group founders” are actually supported by financial gain from battery companies who are terrified of hydrogen displacing their revenue streams. They include:

Ulf Bossel of the European Fuel Cell Forum,

Alec Brooks

James Woolsey

EV World

Sam Thurber

Cal Cars

Felix Kramer



Lets go over the battery and bio-fuel shills lies:

Lie # 1:
“But critics say the process of producing hydrogen requires three to four times more energy than the hydrogen later generates in the fuel cell.”
RESPONSE: This is data from the 60’s. It is now more efficient to make hydrogen than it is to make gasoline, build or use batteries or process bio-fuel. The technology has beat everything else.

Lie # 2:
“the cars are too expensive.”
RESPONSE: The production of hydrogen cars is at an early stage while battery cars have been around for almost a hundred years and the battery cars are still expensive for what you get. The Moore’s law on hydrogen cars shows a clear price decline to low cost in market volume. A Fuel Cell car that goes 500 miles without a charge costs half as much TODAY as a battery car that goes 500 miles without a charge.

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» RE: HYDROGEN SOLVES IT ALL Posted by: powerguy555
» RE: HYDROGEN SOLVES IT ALL Posted by: powerguy555
» RE: HYDROGEN SOLVES IT ALL Posted by: powerguy555
» RE: HYDROGEN SOLVES IT ALL Posted by: powerguy555
» RE: HYDROGEN SOLVES IT ALL Posted by: powerguy555
Taking the not so easy way out
Posted by: macdon1 on Jul 20, 2008 5:25 PM   
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That's what America is all about...instant easy solutions and throwing money at the problem. Sorry folks, no easy solution this time and richies, your money can't buy you out of this one. Our oil dependency has to end, period. In fact our dependency on fossil fuels has to go away and fast. Unfortunately, our public policies are going in the opposite direction. Here in California there should be solar panels everywhere but there aren't. Germany most likely has more solar than we do. A few months ago a new plant making flexible solar panels opened in San Jose but their product wasn't for local use, oh no, their first 100,000 panels were being shipped to Germany to be used in a solar generating plant there. I've been to Germany and it's no California, believe me. It's time to stop pussy-footing around and develop a national policy to get off fossil fuels. Maybe we could use some of the money the government gives away to big oil...

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SORRY. I'M FROM OKLAHOMA. THERE ARE THINGS THAT I KNOW ABOUT THE OIL
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jul 21, 2008 4:01 PM   
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business that you just don't. About 40 years ago I visited a "wildcat" well being promoted by a family member. There were two 'professional' oil persons present. Eventually I realized that not a single word of truth had been spoken in my presence. They are all that way.

My first wife (bless her soul, now deceased) was working for Sohio Petroleum. They had one floor filled with file cabinets. There were no computers, yet. A dry hole is written off of their taxes. The files were of all of the "dry holes". They had been written off of their taxes. Naturally they weren't all dry holes. Some were listed as "not commercially viable". That translates to mean that it wouldn't make enough money to interest them. They know where the oil is.

I pass deep high producing wells daily that are siting idle. Why? Over production would destroy the price of oil.

Do you know what the first building east of the governors mansion is? The Interstate Oil and Gas Compact building. Therein agreements are made to insure that overproduction does not happen. There is a good deal of bull crap being spread around about us having reached "peak oil".

Do you want to know how we will know when we really have reached "peak oil" production. When the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact building 'accidentally' catches fire and they collect the insurance on it, you will know peak oil has been reached. It may catch fire for another reason entirely.

Because of global warming we are going to change our ways. All of the carbon we can't sequester we must cease to use. When the rich realize that George Bush was actually bad for them and their Palm Beach home is going to be underwater things will change. Probably we will just move the poor to Palm Beach.

Yes, for once, briefly, I agree with Boone Pickens somewhat. We can not do this forever. We will be bankrupt. Rather than go to Boone's compressed natural gas, not necessarily a bad idea, we should follow the European model. As we speak, 1 of every 20 gallons of diesel sold by Shell Europe is produced from natural gas.

I was told several years ago, perhaps by a oil company liar, that we had enough natural gas in the U.S. to do us for 10,000 years. Frivilously, I suggest that we diddle off a thousand years of this to free us from the foreigners. With the money we save by making ourselves self sufficient, we can then try anything that we can make work. That means solar, that means wind, that means gasified, sequestered, coal, and if NASA were to be able to figure out how to dispose of the waste safely in solar orbit or deep space, we might reconsider fissonables. Sadly, fusion seems elusive.

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