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Get Ready for the Post-SUV World!

By Stan Cox, AlterNet. Posted July 10, 2008.


SUVs and big pickups are waddling off into the sunset, leaving Americans with no more excuses for the nation's profligate oil use.

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As peak-oil enthusiasts keep vigil over world petroleum statistics, they can find comfort in America's sudden, rapid descent from a different summit: the peak of sport-utility vehicle (SUV) production. In the early 2000s, combined sales of SUVs, pickup trucks, and minivans (which together make up the "light truck" class) caught and surpassed sales of passenger cars. But last week, automakers announced that high gas prices have caused their sales of SUVs and full-size pickups to plummet by as much as 50 percent compared with a year ago.

With big-box vehicles waddling off into the sunset, we can expect the nation's roads to become safer and less crowded. But just as the end of the Cold War failed to bring with it a promised peace dividend, the end of the SUV era is unlikely to bring a "green dividend" -- unless it is accompanied by much bigger changes. The numbers show that even the complete disappearance of SUVs from the nation's roadways, without other fuel-saving developments, would put only a slight bend in the rising curve of national fuel consumption.

First, the Good News

By 2006, sales of the largest pickup trucks were 2½ times what they had been in 1992; meanwhile, assisted by the so-called "Hummer tax deduction," sales of 6,000- to 10,000-pound SUVs had risen 25-fold. But as last week's sales figures from Detroit made clear, 2008 will be a very different year.

In May, for the first time in 17 years, the top-selling vehicle model in America was not a pickup truck. In fact, Ford's F-150, the perennial leader, was overtaken by three small import-car models. Ford's June truck sales were down 41 percent from a year ago, and its SUV sales are now in free-fall, down 55 percent. Sales of Dodge Ram pickups tumbled 48 percent. General Motors, Ford and Chrysler were hit hard, and all have announced plans to close or suspend production at plants that make trucks and SUVs.

The post-SUV world will come to pass only gradually, but as it does, we can look forward to getting at least some relief from the damage that the reign of the big boxes has done:

Less gas will be burned, reducing greenhouse gas emissions: The average SUV is driven 20 percent more miles per year than is the average car. That, along with its low fuel efficiency, means that it burns more than 800 gallons of fuel per year. The average pickup is only slightly less thirsty, at 700 gallons, compared with just under 500 burned by the average car. But without greater restraint by all drivers, how much can the demise of the SUV reduce fossil-fuel consumption? As we will see, not much.

Drivers of all vehicles will be less likely to die in a car crash: Michael Anderson, assistant professor of economics at the University of California at Berkeley, has done the math showing that increasing popularity of SUVs and pickups led to an increase in annual traffic fatalities. Of the additional deaths, he wrote, "approximately one-fifth accrue to the light trucks' own occupants, and the remaining four-fifths accrue to the occupants of other vehicles and pedestrians." To put it another way, getting most SUVs and pickups off the road will make everyone safer -- especially those who don't drive them.

In High and Mighty, his definitive 2002 book on the SUV, journalist Keith Bradsher described how the taller vehicles block the vision of car drivers and contribute to accidents. Statistics show that a person who's at the wheel of a small, nimble car and appropriately aware of the need to avert danger is much safer than a complacent driver relying solely on the protective bulk of an SUV -- a vehicle "designed to overcome its environment, not to respond to it," in the words of writer Malcolm Gladwell.

Fewer children might be run over: Some, but not all, surveys have shown that, presumably because of poorer visibility to the rear, SUVs and pickups are more likely to be involved in what are called driveway "backover" accidents, most victims of which are children. In one study, backovers were fatal most often when the vehicle was a pickup truck.

There will be more room on the road for everyone -- and maybe less road construction: Small-car drivers know that bottom-of-a-well feeling that comes when you're surrounded on all sides at a traffic light by 3-ton, black-windowed behemoths. Bradsher cites studies demonstrating the various ways in which SUVs clog roadways: that a length of road or street able to accommodate, say, 100 cars can hold only 71 SUVs or 87 pickups; that at busy intersections dominated by SUVs, fewer vehicles can get through a green light before the next change; and that large SUVs sap taxpayers by increasing wear and tear on roads. Indeed, as big-vehicle pressures decline, states and municipalities may be able to give drivers, and the environment, a little break by canceling some of their road-widening plans.

Will we be contending with less road rage?: A 2004 Canadian study in the journal Traffic Injury Prevention found that in "serious" road rage incidents, in which drivers "intentionally damaged or attempted to damage another driver's vehicle, and/or intentionally hurt or attempted to hurt a driver or passenger in another vehicle," SUV drivers were more likely to be perpetrators than were drivers of other vehicle types.

What Will SUV Drivers Drive Next?

Despite being prized for their roominess, most SUVs haul only slightly more people than do cars -- on average, not enough riders to fill even the front seat. In advertisements, SUVs are parked on cliff tops, but in real life, 76 percent are parked in urban streets, driveway and garages most nights. And despite their hardworking country-and-western image, 60 percent of pickup trucks are owned by urban households and typically ply the streets with empty cargo beds.

In a 2005 paper, University of Pennsylvania doctoral candidate Josh Lauer dismissed the SUV's reputation for safety and spaciousness: "Safety is not road safety but personal safety, and space is not interior cargo space but social space, including the ability to traverse the most inhospitable terrain to sequester oneself from the hazards of modern civilization. In this way, the SUV's popularity reflects underlying American attitudes toward crime, random violence, and the importance of defended personal space."

Only 13 percent of SUVs are owned by families of 5 or more persons, and a big 40 percent are found in households of only one or two. A report prepared for the U.S. Department of Energy in August 2000 cited a survey of car buyers that found: "The average SUV customer is male, married, aged 45 years, in a household with an income of $94,400. ... Because SUV owners are fairly affluent, the price of the vehicle and of fuel is not sufficiently important to cause them to consider changing the type of vehicle they drive."

But at the time that paper was published, gasoline was at $1.43 per gallon, a price we're certain never to see again. Recent price shocks appear to have changed attitudes even among well-to-do car shoppers, despite the fact that people who can easily afford a $100 dinner check should be unfazed by a $100-plus tank of gas.

Without a national survey on the issue, it's hard to predict what will fill the garages of the most affluent drivers in coming years, according to Pamela Danziger. As president of Unity Marketing in Stevens, Penn., a firm specializing in analysis of luxury markets, Danziger predicts that current high-end SUV drivers "will keep them going until their current leases are up or it's time to buy a new vehicle. Then it is likely that they will trade down to a more economical, but no less luxurious vehicle."

The well-heeled sport-utility driver won't be going extinct. On the day that automakers' dismal June sales figures were announced, Reuters profiled a few members of that species -- people like John Stephens:

Arizona mortgage broker John Stephens uses his big plum-colored Dodge RAM pickup to tow off-road vehicles out to the desert to play. He likes their comfort and space. As he sluiced gallon after gallon of gas at $4.16 a go into his truck at a Scottsdale gas station, Stephens said he was prepared to make certain sacrifices to improve consumption, such as driving more slowly if the government cut speed limits to save fuel. But he would not consider giving up his truck despite getting just 13 miles per gallon. "I'd rather see more drilling and more alternative type fuels, anything to keep the price of gas down," he said.
Possibly the worst news for Detroit in June was that buyers were not just switching models or brands; sales were down 18 percent across the board. With the era of cheap oil over, companies may find that it's hard to build and sell a vehicle that meets both the economic and the psychological demands of drivers. As they scramble to find one, you can bet that they'll want to learn from their previous, ultra-successful SUV market analysis. In his book, Bradsher asks, "Who has been buying SUVs since automakers turned them into family vehicles?" and arrives at this answer:
They tend to be people who are insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors or communities. No, that's not a cynic talking -- that's the auto industry's own market researchers ...
But setting up SUV owners as villains is probably not very helpful. (Nor is the SUV's widely discussed appeal to the "reptile brain," an idea hatched by the eccentric French anthropologist Clotaire Rapaille and popularized by Bradsher.)

Adapting society to the twin problems of declining oil supplies and rising atmospheric carbon requires that we face an awkward truth: It's not that there are too many SUVs or pickups on the road, it's that too many vehicles of all types are rolling around out there.

Many ex-SUV drivers have been trading them in for so-called crossover vehicles (CUVs) -- smaller versions of SUVs with car-like unibody construction. But even a mass replacement of SUVs with cars would not make this a fuel-frugal nation. Suppose that all SUV owners in America turned instead to average-efficiency cars or CUVs while retaining current driving habits. That, based on government figures, would reduce fuel consumption by less than 5 billion gallons per year -- equivalent to 3 percent of national gasoline consumption. Were all SUVs replaced by those hot-selling Prius hybrids, the switch would save about 7.5 percent.

It may be, as two Duke University professors recently recommended, that policy should be focused on replacing the most inefficient vehicles; however, the conservation gains estimated above would not even make up the ground that we lost in the SUV era. Replacing SUVs with standard cars would take us back to the nation's 2003 level of gas consumption; with Priuses, we'd get back to 1999. And much of the good done by those small savings would be canceled out by the deep ecological tireprint of the discarded vehicles and the manufacture, sales and eventual disposal of so many new cars.

Since 1990, the total number of vehicle-miles traveled in the United States has risen twice as fast as the country's population. Americans appear to be driving less in 2008, but we continue to travel in largely empty vehicles. In 2001 figures for occupancy (the average number of people, including the driver, who ride in each vehicle type) were 1.48 per pickup; 1.57 per passenger car; 1.76 for SUV; and 2.20 for minivan.

A North Carolina survey found that over a six-month period in 2001, 78 percent of SUVs on the road had no occupants other than the driver; the figure was the same for pickups and slightly higher than the 76 percent observed for passenger cars. That squares with DOT figures showing that 76 percent of commuter trips are made solo.

From the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) comes this astonishing comparison (pdf): "In 1969, about 20.6 percent of households owned no vehicles [and a miniscule number owned more than three]. By 2001, more households owned four or more vehicles than owned no vehicles." We now have almost 14 million more personal vehicles in the US than we have licensed drivers.

Where Will the SUVs Go Next?

Production of new SUVs and pickups could eventually taper off somewhere near its level of the early 1980s, when sport-utility vehicles were used primarily for, well, sport and utility. Meanwhile, a financial system that's still hung over from the pop of the McMansion bubble is sinking even deeper, as -- pop! -- goes the McMotor bubble.

AutoWeek reports that "with some 800,000 truck-based sport-utility vehicles coming off lease this year, residual values projected three and four years ago will be missed by as much as $6,000 per unit... Those who lend the money -- banks, credit unions, car companies' captive finance arms and others who write leases -- will face a tab of nearly $5 billion just in 2008."

Abner Perney is a city commissioner in Salina, Kansas, where he owns and runs Abner's Autos, a used car business. He's watching prices of SUVs and pickups sink into a seemingly bottomless pit and expects the lease crunch to trigger "another banking credit mini-crisis" that mirrors the home mortgage fiasco. Perney, who is now running for the Kansas state senate on a low-carbon-emissions platform, adds, "Same thing goes for millions of people who owe much more than their gas hog is worth, when they find themselves in the bind of wanting to sell or having to sell."

Many of the oldest, least expensive gas-guzzlers may end up parked with those families who can least afford to feed them. Perney expects used SUVs to move well down the income scale: "Historically, poor folks have big old cars because they depreciate fast, yet they are tough enough to keep on going. Keeping them running is actually cheaper for everything other than fuel and oil, because they're rugged and generally understressed mechanically. The luxury doodads and electronic gizmos are expensive to repair, but you can usually get by without them."

If fuel costs keep rising, they could overwhelm those other expenses. Nevertheless, many low-income earners are familiar with having to pay heavy recurring bills because they can't afford big one-time costs up front: Some pay outrageous weekly or daily rents for lousy housing because they can't afford high deposits and advance rent, or are ripped off by check-cashing outfits because they can't put up the minimum deposit for a checking account. Similarly, if the more fuel-efficient vehicles end up with the least affordable price tags on used-car lots, cash-strapped buyers may end up stuck with big, cheap trucks or SUVs. The question of how to keep them running will have to be left for another day.

Taking Back the Streets

In dealing with the aftermath of the SUV boom and bust, some creativity is needed. Maybe a worthwhile complement to the nation's Strategic Petroleum Reserve would be a Strategic Light Truck Reserve. All of those orphaned SUVs and macho pickups could be rounded up, mothballed and designated a public resource. Then over the coming decades, they could be doled out a few at a time to communities, to be shared by all residents for necessary hauling, towing and traveling in larger groups. Because most people need the greater capacity of SUVs and pickups only rarely, such vehicles would seem to be ideal candidates for joint-ownership or sharing arrangements.

Tracey Axelsson is executive director of the nonprofit Cooperative Auto Network (CAN) in Vancouver, British Columbia, which is the oldest car-sharing co-op in the English-speaking world. By offering pickup trucks in its fleet, CAN manages to fill members' occasional hauling needs while helping reduce the number of large vehicles on the road. Axelsson hopes "that the old adage is changing -- that 'The only thing better than owning a truck is having a friend that does' will become 'The only thing better than sharing a truck is spending the money you save from not owning one.'"

But, she adds, CAN is part of a coalition of similar groups struggling to develop a general code of ethics for car sharing. Otherwise, she says, such systems "can fall into the standard drama of providing just another disposable automobile or actually add to the number of cars in a person's toy box."

Don Fitz of St. Louis, Mo., who edits the green-social journal Synthesis/Regeneration (disclosure: I am on the journal's editorial board) recently laid out a plan for radically reducing the numbers of personal vehicles on the road through combinations of living rearrangements, incentives and disincentives. Some of his recommendations: Cut the workweek to 32 hours or much less, ensure that getting to work is quicker without a car than with one, move jobs closer to residences, and start making it harder to drive by eliminating more parking spaces every year. (The Utah state government recently went to an energy-saving four-day workweek, but without decreasing work hours.)

Fitz emphasized, "Increasing trains and buses could be deep green transportation -- but if and only if it is part of an actual decrease in the number of automobiles. Likewise, increasing bicycles, scooters, carpooling and car-sharing is truly green transportation only if it is a piece of the big picture of reducing cars."

Our vehicle population will eventually shrink, whether it's through choice or necessity. This twilight of the SUV era seems an appropriate occasion to rework our whole concept of personal transportation -- and start depopulating America's car dealerships and parking lots.

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Stan Cox is a plant breeder and writer in Salina, Kansas. His is the author of Sick Planet: Corporate Food and Medicine (Pluto Press, 2008).

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Drive What You Can Afford
Posted by: gellero1 on Jul 10, 2008 12:45 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If it's a Hummer.............more power to ya.

If Al Gore wants his Jet, if I want my gas guzzling Ferrari.................why should anyone care.

I can afford NOT to take public transportation.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Aho ka Posted by: Negative_Creep
» RE: Drive What You Can Afford Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Drive What You Can Afford Posted by: richholland
» RE: Drive What You Can Afford Posted by: carbon-based
» $186 a month Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Drive What You Can Afford Posted by: HoboHomo
» "Got small wee-wees? Posted by: paulmagillsmith
» RE: "Got small wee-wees? Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Drive What You Can Afford Posted by: john mont
» What really sucks is... Posted by: EinMD
» Dear Selfish Dumbshit: Posted by: WhuThe?!?
It seems to me...
Posted by: adp3d on Jul 10, 2008 3:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that GM is building the Volt to be priced in the mid-lux range and then they won't sell enough units to be profitable so they will end up killing the program and say "we told you so". To me it just doesn't seem to be the model for the masses, like the Cavalier or its replacement the Cobalt(which I understand they may discontinue).

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: It seems to me... Posted by: willymack
» Yahshu Posted by: yahshu
» RE: It seems to me... Posted by: EinMD
» RE: It seems to me... Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: It seems to me... Posted by: babs
Human powered vehicles, HVP's
Posted by: Poederbach on Jul 10, 2008 4:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems to me that most Americans are addicted to cars. I can understand this partly because the vast distances in the US. I agree with the article that it is a social and psychological problem almost like drugs are, including status and personal space.

A very practical solution would be to replace the car in some areas by a human powered vehicles ( HVP's), like a bike. Many Americans are overweighted not to say obese since many only do sitting work, watch TV sitting on the couch ore drive in a car from A to B instead of using their own musclepower to do so.

There are many solutions mentioned in the article but none of them radical enough to realy solve the problem. I understand very well it needs courage to do a radical change.

For many that like relatively fast transportation for commuting to work concider driving a Velomobile that has almost zero CO2 footprint besides parts of your breath and the occasional fart.
If you live to far from work, just decide to go and live nearer to the job, there must be cheap houses around now or swap housing.

A Velomobile is family of the bycicle, basically it is a trike with a fairing that has an extreme aerodynamic shape. It is able to reach speeds of 18 mph while you deliver just 100 Watts of power, like you where going easy on a normal bike. Of course if you get addicted to your own power yu can reach speeds up to 35 mph or even more. The Velomobile gives full weather protection. There are power assisted Velo's as well that use small electric motors.

Strange enough bikes in the US are mostly sold as toys for kids but only taken seriously by a few.

The upside is that by biking two times one hour a working day you will find a conciderably weight loss , that is if you eat properly also.

Using you own power instead of burning fuel is one of the ways to go.

For more background see the following links en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velomobile or http://www.recumbent-bikes-truth-for-you.com/velomobile.html or http://users.pandora.be/fietser/FVDW.htm

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» RE: Human powered vehicles, HVP's Posted by: richholland
» RE: Human powered vehicles, HVP's Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Human powered vehicles, HVP's Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Love the concept Posted by: wankervon
» RE: Love the concept Posted by: underledge
» RE: Love the concept Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Love the concept Posted by: greenmulberry
note to bike riders...
Posted by: ellie on Jul 10, 2008 5:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the message is that the American people in general are being more conscious of the price at the pump... so if we were to follow economic theory, prices should fall to encourage consumption then rise again to maintain profits... it ain't happening around here folks...

gas stations are almost empty, fewer cars and semi's already on the road, people are using what mass transit they have available to them and still the price at the pump keeps going up...

more bikes on the road but wish that the riders would understand a bicycle is not a motorcycle... you don't get the entire left lane for your pedal power, drivers don't always see you speeding along in areas without sidewalks or easements and drivers need to be more aware of bicycles too... way too many bike vs. car crashes around here lately, adult caused...

according to police stats around here, they are ticketing more bike riders who pedal like they're in a hummer and bike riders are beginning to scream that adding in the fine for the ticket comes close to getting the car out of the garage... duh!!!

personally, I walk if possible, it's safer...

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» RE: note to bike riders... Posted by: Negative_Creep
» It's that old American Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: It's that old American Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: note to bike riders... Posted by: HoboHomo
» A different perspective Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: A different perspective Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: note to bike riders... Posted by: HelperMonkey
Maybe in 10-12 Years
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jul 10, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The average vehicle stays on the road about 10-12 years in the US. The devalued SUVs will find their way down to the used market and will be on the roads for many years.
Many poor people cannot afford a new car or get financing for one. The dealers are now stocking fully dressed (max options and markup) compacts for the same prices a full size car cost a few years ago. I got an e-mail from a Toyota dealer offering a a Prius that should have a 22k sticker for almost 30k. That kind of ripping off of the small car market will push the poor into hand-me-down SUVs as it is all they can afford.

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» RE: Maybe in 10-12 Years Posted by: babs
Back to the 19th century!
Posted by: lasarte-oria on Jul 10, 2008 5:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My community has embarked on a project of trailbuilding (a 25 mile walking/bike trail linking local towns is underway). These projects will probably grow in popularity and afford locals the ability of car-free commuting.
It is probably 'enviro-selfish' to say, but high gas prices may be the way out of the enviromental problems gas created.

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Pickup trucks and SUVs fill a niche
Posted by: mnascimento on Jul 10, 2008 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After driving Suburbans for ten years, then buying a pickup truck, I finally bought a sedan.

It gets me from here to there, but doesn't allow for much else.

I am now paying exorbitant delivery charges on things I formally could schleppe home without extra planning and expense. The purchase of a few two by fours, or a mattress require logistical planning.

I dont' understand the "either, or" mentality.

Would it be so hard to design a practical vehicle with cargo space that didn't have a huge gas guzzling engine?

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» More about trailers Posted by: truthlover
» Uhhhh... physics? Posted by: geoff_canuck
Who drives what
Posted by: carbon-based on Jul 10, 2008 5:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cant help but feel when reading this article that the author is taking great joy in the gas pains felt by americans.

Equating owning SUV, with self esteem issues is a bit of a stretch or is it.. depends on where one lives.. Most pick ups I see where I live - a very rural area) have tool boxes attached to them. They are work trucks. SUV's are Honda's or others that are unibody construction and have minivan counterparts of the same chassis. 20mpg is nothing to write home about but it's not 13 mpg as the article states.

Funny but I see the VERY LARGE SUV's Caddys etc closer to and in NYC - brand new ones driven by minorities ( I wont say who - and dare I say it, those in lost of gold chains and "wife beaters" T shirts. ). There's that self esteem thing!

Getting pickups off the road wont improve safety.. getting tractor trailers off the road will improve safety. Getting hit by a car or suv at 70mph is bad either way!

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» RE: Who drives what Posted by: dustdevil
» Downside? Posted by: truthlover
» Call me unpatriotic Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Call me unpatriotic Posted by: carbon-based
» lol Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Call me unpatriotic Posted by: babs
» RE: Who drives what Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Who drives what Posted by: PortlandLiberal
bwaa haa haaaa...
Posted by: pikaomega on Jul 10, 2008 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Aug. of 2002, I found myself in need of a new car. I was fortunate enough to basically have all options on the table-from a monetary perspective-so I decided to do a bit of research. When I was flipping thru that year's Consumer Reports automotive issue, I stumbled upon the then unknown Toyota Prius. I wanted a Toyota to begin with, so the hybrid angle and the excellent ratings sold me right there at the dentist's office.

At this point, no one had even really heard of the Prius...in fact every dealer in the St. Louis area had, at most, three on the lot at any point in time. So, after I bought the car, I was pretty conspicuous in traffic.

Perhaps because I fumed every time I got stuck next to one at a light, but it always seemed that the people driving the land behemoths took extra special care to be extra dickish. They took up a lane and a half, at least. They made sure to barrel thru the city without regard to life nor limb. It seemed as if the purchase of a sedan was automatically understood as an invitation to vehicular manslaughter. Most of my scowls were met in kind, especially since I added my "Draft SUV Drivers First" bumpersticker.

But, recently I have become a bit more chipper about the whole deal. Pulling up next to a Hummer at a red light brings a smile to my lips, as a warm honey wave washes over me. St. Louis has some of the lowest gas in the nation, but it's still teetering at $4 a gallon. For all the years of grief that I have gotten, not just for the car but for the mindset that the car has been seen to represent (read: peacenik, liberal, commie, traitor, et al), this development comes to me with a sense of satisfaction.

As a kid, my mom's favorite saying was "if you don't listen, you'll have to feel," and how right she was.

Can we listen now?

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» RE: bwaa haa haaaa... Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: bwaa haa haaaa... Posted by: Karina
» RE: Prius! Posted by: Dboy
» RE: bwaa haa haaaa... Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: bwaa haa haaaa... Posted by: pikaomega
» Can we listen now? Posted by: ohb0b
money talks
Posted by: grmartin on Jul 10, 2008 7:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Green means the green in the wallet! Never mind attitude change, let's keep in mind that most people have to be forced into planet saving behaviour - this includes consumers as well as developers, politicians and manufacturers. Too bad but wishful thinking, voluntary guidelines etc won't go very far at all in our corporate controlled society. We are what we are.

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OIL COMPANIES: FUTURE GENERATIONS NOT PROFITS
Posted by: david.model@senecac.on.ca on Jul 10, 2008 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HELLO!! oil companies, Democratic, and Republican members of Congress. Apparently the aforementioned do not read environmental news or do not care about global warming since their solution to the oil crisis is based on the assumption that the real problem is either a shortage of supply or high prices. Apparently these people do not read any analysis other than the mainstream media for their understanding of the impact of global warning. Most of these people have children and grandchildren and it defies common sense that they would willingly bequeath a severely damaged planet to their loved ones. So read other sources.

The real problem is the consumption of fossil fuel irrespective of the price or availability. Clearly and simply, fossil fuels contribute to greenhouse emissions which are already approximately 60% above the levels needed to sustain our planet. Increasing current consumption levels cannot possibly be the solution in the short or long term.

Compounding the problem is the fact that oil is either close to or past its peak. That means that oil is guaranteed to become more expensive and dirty as producers extract oil from less efficient sources. For example, the Tar Sands in Canada has catapulted to number one in known oil reserves. It is extremely costly and dirty to extract and destroys the environment in a large area. Greenhouse emissions will skyrocket as people begin to consume more oil from these dirty and inefficient sources.

Confusing our understanding of the problem is the discussion about the price of oil. Obviously, the oil companies want you to believe that it is related to the supply of oil and hence the solution is to produce more oil. Surprise! Surprise! The real problem is neither the supply which has been fairly constant nor the demand which is rising due to the increasing consumption in countries such as India and China but can still be met for a while given current reserves. The real problem is speculation. Speculators are not only betting on the price today but the price well into the future. It is their predatory betting for quick profits that is driving up the price for consumers.

Possibly the problem would be fully addressed if those with ties with the oil companies, including oil company executives, shareholders, lobbyists, and politicians who are in a bed of oil with the oil companies, paid more attention to the fate of their younger relatives than to the ever-increasing profits of oil companies.

http://www.stateofdarkness.com

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Good riddance!
Posted by: BreeMass on Jul 10, 2008 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a person who grew up in the mountains of Idaho, SUVs have log been the bane of my existence. Why do people driving SUVs always think that you can still go sixty in a blizzard? Why are these stupid ugly behemoths a status symbol? Now, I do understand that some (very few statistically) NEED trucks for hauling, particularly people with farms and aminals that regularly need transport. Other than that, there is no need for these stupid machines and I revel in their hopefully rapid extinction.

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» RE: Well lets see! Posted by: donl51
» RE: Well lets see! Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Well lets see! Posted by: donl51
Suv's have a place too
Posted by: adocann1 on Jul 10, 2008 7:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I drive a 2002 ford explorer 6 cylinder. I drive this vehicle for a variety of reasons. 1.) My husband and I are avid campers and need a vheicle with the ability to tow, 2.) I have many children in my life an often need to transport them hither, tither and yon, 3.) I shop in bulk to save money and my husband often hauls materials for various home improvement projects that would otherwise have ot be delivered. And before anyone pillories me, we do have a sedan for everyday use.

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» RE: Suv's have a place too Posted by: BreeMass
» Kids and SUVs Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Kids and SUVs Posted by: annavan1
» RE: Suv's have a place too Posted by: shinseiji
More needs to be done.
Posted by: reelectnoone on Jul 10, 2008 7:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First...many of us don't even need to burn gas.
Read my article at:

Pure electrics

Then we need some kind of tax credit to help people get rid of SUV's. Problem is people who have them now can't sell them because no one wants them. Many are stuck with them and can't "downgrade" to a lower mileage vehicle.

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Our view of American life
Posted by: willymack on Jul 10, 2008 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Centers around urban or suburban life.In the rural area where I live, an all-wheel or four wheel drive vehicle is a good idea. You can also have tungsten studded tires on your vehicle from November through April. Last winter was especially harsh and long here, with a lot of snow and zero cold overnight. The spring was absolutely miserable, with signifigant snowfall in MAY. On the north side of my house was a four foor high snowdrift which didn't completely disappear until May. My prediction for suvs and four wheel drive pickups is that they'll make a comeback once hybrid or fuel cell models appear on the market-at least where I live.

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» I Don't Think... Posted by: pdxstudent
I drive a.....
Posted by: tvaspen on Jul 10, 2008 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.....full size, 4 wheel drive pick-up, when I happen to drive. I use it to carry lumber for the occasional side job I might do, wood chips for the yard, moving furniture, etc. I walk two blocks to work most every day. The truck is a 1995 GMC, bought and paid for with cheap insurance, it sits most of the time. I can say with some confidence that my carbon footprint is smaller than most of the holier than thou posters on this site and the hypocritical political hacks. If some moron throws rocks at my truck they will be arrested. I agree that that things need to change, and when my truck finally dies I won't replace it. But obnoxious and sweeping generalizations of people who drive trucks is just silly and nonproductive.
And by the way, my penis is adequet.

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» RE: I drive a..... Posted by: EinMD
Small Cars Are Not For Every Body
Posted by: Sister on Jul 10, 2008 8:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love small cars. Unfortunately, due to a disabiltiy, it is impossible for me to get in and out of a small car. Not to mention the stress it puts on my body. So please keep this in mind when you are suggesting that those of us who own SUVs are selfish and uncaring. Public transportation, for me, it is not an option. I have a blue placard.

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» With all due respect... Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: With all due respect... Posted by: NoKidding
SUV?
Posted by: NoKidding on Jul 10, 2008 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I drive a Toyota Rav4 4 cyl. Is my car part of the pack of behemoths? When people write about suvs, they never include Rav4s, Elements, or any of the other smaller ones. I don't think of myself as the typical suv type. My boyfriend is an artist so it's nice to be able to fit his paintings in the back. Also, having a bad back and knees, this car is much easier for me to get in and out of. I only drive about 3,000 miles a year which is nothing. I just don't want to be pegged as one of those evil suv drivers. I wear Birks and play the banjo for god sakes ;-)

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What happen to sane motoring?
Posted by: 220vBrain on Jul 10, 2008 9:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I was a teenager I drove small English sport cars powered by 4 cylinder engines. I averaged about 35 mpg with them. They were quick enough for most driving situations, and extremely fun to drive. All of these vehicles were pre 1960,which ment they lacked many of the creature comforts we have today. However, as a kid, I could fill up the tank for $2.50
and drive for nearly a week. (gasoline then was 28 cents @gal.) My favoite car of all was a Morris Minor 1000 coupe. I drove that car for ten years, until I got married.( I was sorry I ever let it go too !)
This was when Detroit was pushing muscle cars, huge engines, and big horse power. I never understood the mindlessness of these type of vehicles. They were totally pointless.
Fast foward to today, and again, they are pushing retro muscle cars, with hemi engines, big horse power, and ever ridiculas top ends...
While the world is running dry on fossil fuels, this new wave of totally stupid vhicles makes no sense at all.

Why can't anyone bring back the PIP SQUEEK little cars like those that England, Italy, France,Japan and Germany used to make, only more reliable, safe, comfortable? Why does everything have to be able to go 180+mph,supercharged,fill with every kind of electronic gadget imaginable, and cost $90,000
on average? It is absolutley stupid!

I want another (NEW) Morris Minor 1000 with slight improvemnts...I never wanted a Hemi Cuda, a Corvette, or a Porche 911 twin turbo...I want a simple car, that is fun to drive, efficient, and costs $2,500 new...is that too much to ask for today? Seems it is....

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» RE: What happen to sane motoring? Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Agreed! Posted by: Forrest
Yahshu
Posted by: yahshu on Jul 10, 2008 9:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's obvious who your god is-MONEY. How sad. the planet was not put here just for your benefit. Hopefully someday you will understand that there are way more important things in this life than money.

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SUV's As Housing
Posted by: Southern Gal on Jul 10, 2008 9:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps all of these gas hungry SUV's could be used as housing for the homeless. There must be some way to recycle these vehicles. I have no sympathy for the American auto manufacturers who chose to ignore energy conservation and pollution realities to build these vehicles. I have even less sympathy for General Motors who killed the electric car.

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Peak Oil Enthusiasts?
Posted by: D. Shenary on Jul 10, 2008 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A rather good article over all; however, the first line clearly contains a misnomer. "As peak-oil enthusiasts keep vigil over world petroleum statistics,". Calling the people who are aware of our energy predicament peak-oil enthusiasts shows a complete lack of understanding of the implications of peak-oil. Actually the entire article points to the enormous disconnect between what is coming and what to do about it. Peak-oil aware people have been called pessimists, power downers, and doomers, but never enthusiasts. This mischaracterization is akin to calling climatologists global warming enthusiasts.

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» RE: Peak Oil Enthusiasts? Posted by: pomes
» RE: Peak Oil Enthusiasts? Posted by: D. Shenary
» RE: Peak Oil Enthusiasts? Posted by: pomes
» RE: Peak Oil Enthusiasts? Posted by: pomes
» www.OilCrisis.org Posted by: fanny666
» RE: Peak Oil Enthusiasts? Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Peak Oil Enthusiasts? Posted by: D. Shenary
Never let a new technology be more expensive than an outdated one.
Posted by: maxpayne on Jul 10, 2008 9:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You see, Big Auto is doing all it can to frame electric cars and hybrids as "unaffordable" and yet entice those poor suckers out there with "Get an SUV and gas for 2.99 a gallon !" BULLSHIT. The day America realizes that thanks to FAILING students and slapping phoney "patents" and/or frivolous lawsuits against non-monied geniuses all the while keeping the wars for oil machine running and continuing to keep America in OUTDATED mode along with OUTSOURCING labor with the sheeple happily playing "go along get along",

GOD WILL CONTINUE TO PUNISH PUNISH PUNISH AMERICA STONE COLD AND DRY TO ETERNAL DAMNATION !!

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Training to live like serfs
Posted by: pomes on Jul 10, 2008 9:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've noticed a lot fewer cars on the road, yet the price of gas continues to go up. This is not about supply and demand or even speculation -- among other things, the dollar is being eviscerated, and we're being put back on the plantation.

I read somewhere that China is paying ~$2.30 a gallon.

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» China's gasoline is subsidized. Posted by: Artkansas
SUV's waddle off in the sunset
Posted by: 220vBrain on Jul 10, 2008 9:31 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bullshit! I bought mine for 34K and it is paid for. I am going to live in it when I leave my house behind. That struture is sinking into the sunset, not my SUV! I just put 1200 into it and it is ready to tour the disaster zones of America where I will make a photo record and publish a book from my lap top. A few of us are creative enough to cope!

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The Oily Umbilicus will follow us to the grave; the undertaker will pry it from our cold dead hands
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Jul 10, 2008 10:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Merchants follow the baby boom.

Many retirees are downsizing or selling homes outright in favor of RV's. I went camping this summer for the first time in 10 years, and am astounded by the deployment of rolling stock among the elders: from tent trailers (air conditioned, of course), to 80' buses and everything in between. Most are SUVs, vans and pick-ups. Many tow cars, bikes and other motorized vehicles. Some look like they're schlepping their entire estate. 300lb BBQ's, satellite dishes. This is camping? WTF leave home? Tents seem antiquated. If anyone's tenting, they're either under 30 or homeless.

Long story short, this crowd uses a lot of energy! They have money to spend, and the oil companies will follow them on their travels right to the gas tank inlets on the hearses in their funeral procession.

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One excuse left?
Posted by: finch on Jul 10, 2008 10:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How much oil does our military consume each year?

Or do the US's oil consumption stats we read already include our military's use?

Does anyone know? Links please!

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» RE: One excuse left? Posted by: BlackbirdHighway
Keep Your SUVs and Pickups
Posted by: ChairmanMetal on Jul 10, 2008 10:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and let's really get this Peak Oil thing the hell over with! Nothing is accomplished by this shift to smaller cars except to prolong the inevitable.

Drive big! Drive fast!

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dasq
Posted by: dasq on Jul 10, 2008 10:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about this.....cancel every 'motor sport'event through the rest of this year? From motocross through Nascar,all of them.It's not only the fuel used in the race,think of all the resources consumed. Ten thousand dollars the get from 8.9 seconds to 8.8 seconds in one quarter mile. Two hundred thousand people drive hundreds of miles to watch cars 'race'around in a circle for 500 miles? End all of it. Can you say Revolution? How pathic are we? Blessings to all

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SUVs: a vehicle designed soley to burn more gas.
Posted by: Artkansas on Jul 10, 2008 10:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The cars with fins are gone. The big boxy land yachts of the early 70's are gone. And finally the SUVs are going. Certainly, back in the seventies no one would have guessed that the most influential vehicles of that day were the Jeep, the Ford Bronco and the Chevy Blazer and Suburban. They were pretty much fringe cars.

People didn't just wake up one day and decide that they needed an SUV. There really wasn't any real new conditions that created demand for them. So how did they come to prominence?

The SUV concept is not new. El Kineño was designed by Harley Earl for a friend of his who just happened to be a Congressman. Click on the link to see it. Just like the Pet Rock, demand for SUV's was artificially induced.

I can only assume at this point, but I have to wonder, how much support car makers got from big oil on this account, and how much our government was influenced to allow the sale of them. After the late 70s, you couldn't go back to big box cars and fins were dead, so a new dressing for the gas guzzler had to be found. And because of the way tax and pollution laws got written, selling a truck as a car was the perfect idea.

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John P. Stoltenberg,P.E.
Posted by: XXXXXX on Jul 10, 2008 10:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My wife owns 2000 Tahoe with 76,000 miles on it. I own a Buick 2005 Rendezvous with 36,000 miles on it and a 1992 Chevy S-10 pick-up truck with 128,000 miles on it.

We drive the Rendezvous and S-10 as much as possible to keep down our the money we spend on gasoline.

As a result, we only drive the Tahoe in the winter months, or if one of the other two cars needs maintenance.

We have no intention of selling our Tahoe because we live in Wisconsin and we need it's four-wheel drive and large diameter mud/snow tires in the winter months to cope with the snow. When the Tahoe wears out we will probably replace it with another used Tahoe, or used Ford Expedition, no matter what the price of gasoline.

John P. Stoltenberg, P.E.
Elkhart lake, WI

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High Gas Prices = GOP/Redneck's Worst Nightmare
Posted by: Jdog on Jul 10, 2008 1:32 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love the bemused looks people exchange when some idiot in a lifted 4x4, SUV, or Hummer revs his engine, takes off from a green light, or pulls into a gas station...Typically, at least here it seems, drivers of these anachronisms tend to be in the 30-45 age range, republican (based on the Confederate flag, Bush/Cheney, and other right-wing stickers they sport) and blue-collar to lower management types.

No way these monkeys can afford to keep driving these crates, but they can't seem to stop either. Considering the fact that probably 90% of these people are still making payments on $50,000+ vehicles while their homes depreciate, I wonder how long it will be before they finally wake up to the fact that the GOP is no friend of theirs...

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Back to the Horse!
Posted by: Rorschach on Jul 10, 2008 1:46 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I rather fancy going back to horse and buggy days myself. I'd rather be on horseback than stuck in traffic jams any time. It was good enough a hundred years ago, it may be good enough again sooner than we want to think. Bring back the horse! Proven technology that works!

And mail the manure to Detroit and DC.

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» RE: Back to the Horse! Posted by: babs
Europe
Posted by: TommyD on Jul 10, 2008 3:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We just got back from Italy and the vast majority of the people drive very small cars. Our rental was a Fiat diesel that ran like a top and averages 40some mpg. Smart Cars everywhere. No Suburbans. Not one. I saw a couple of Range Rovers and literally like three pick ups. A fair amount of lux 4 doors, but mostly little cars. When I got back home I started looking around for info on avg Euro fuel economy. It turns out that in the US we have two vehicles (2!)that average over 40 mpg. The rest of the world, mostly Europe, has more than 100! Many of them are made by Nissan, Toyota and GM (Opel, Vauxhall). There are probably still a very good reasons (reliability?)we don't buy French or Italian cars (Renault/Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat/Lancia) but there are many other options. There's a Citroen in the MSNBC link below that averages something like 57 mpg and it's not a hybrid. They have actual minivans: van-shaped vehicles that are small! We would have to call it a MINI minivan. What are we doing?

You might find these links interesting:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17344368/

linked text = 100 most efficient cars in the UK. Scroll down and they break it up by type of car.

www.wisegeek.com/which-are-the-most-fuel-efficient-cars.htm

www.green-energy-news.com/arch/nrgs2005/20050215.html

www.csmonitor.com/2005/0826/p01s03-woeu.html

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» RE: urope Posted by: Benjaminsjw
» RE: urope Posted by: TommyD
1989 Toyota 4wd 4 banger will do it
Posted by: shinseiji on Jul 10, 2008 3:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the great tragedies of the last 20 years of "Supersize Me" America was the disappearance of the 4 cylinder 4wd light truck as the auto co.s stopped manufacturing them for the US market.

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Rebuild the old 4wd 4-banger trucks
Posted by: shinseiji on Jul 10, 2008 3:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That in fact is what I intend to do with mine as it wears out, since they don't build them anymore.

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End of an Error
Posted by: rdsanchez1966 on Jul 10, 2008 4:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rust in Pieces.

Go electric: http://www.eaaev.org/

Peace out.

Robert

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» RE: why such big cars anyway? Posted by: wisegalah
In America Everything Is For War, Let's Change It: to Mass Transit and Programs for the People
Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 10, 2008 6:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In other countries, especially Europe, the constant need for an automobile is not nearly as necessary as in the USA. That's mainly because of a well developed mass transit infrastructure. Most Europeans can easily use it to get to work. But, for millions of Americans, we have no choice but the car. Now, in America, we pay our taxes, but unlike the other developed countries, our military budget is more then the military budgets of all the other countries in the world, combined. We spend $2 billion a week on Iraq and countless billions on "collecting intelligence," and maintaining bases across the world. Our politicians are obsessed with war and "national security." It's a sickness and very sad when you consider millions of Americans don't even hardly have the basics of life, such as access to affordable medical care and housing. America, it seems, has made her choice. Her rich ruling elite has decided the government and the military are there to "protect them." Never mind the millions of "have-not's," and the dying cities. Never mind the millions who cannot even see a doctor. Just more money, more money for war.

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Not to Worry...
Posted by: WaldoMaui on Jul 10, 2008 7:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Next thing you know Republicans will be marketing excess SUV's as dwellings for those displaced by the housing crisis.

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We drive a an '85 Mercury Grand Marquis
Posted by: cfuz7 on Jul 10, 2008 10:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's sucks gas like a deceased dinosaur trying to find it's mama. It's huge, with velvet bench seats. HOWEVER, we live in town, my husband walks or takes the bus to his state job. We think about where we are driving when we need to haul or buy big things and don't go far doing so, plan our trips around the grid. I also walk when I can to anywhere. On the few road trips we do, we rent a car. The Merc has only 70,000 miles on it so we figure it's best to use the mother up before thinking about another vehicle. Some folks look at me like I'm a low rider, but a true rider would keep their ride clean and I never wash mine. Also, I'm a middle aged white woman! It's a mighty big car.

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Sheep Rancher
Posted by: rchapin8391 on Jul 10, 2008 10:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can understand peoples need to move to more economical forms of transportation. People need to understand that farmers and ranchers need the bigger more powerful pick up trucks for our business. I don't think that I can pull a flat bed trailer with 150 bales of hay with a Ford Focus. That is 4.5 tons of hay. Please be understanding with us because we help feed all of you.

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» RE: Sheep Rancher Posted by: annavan1
Suggestion
Posted by: ImSwiss on Jul 11, 2008 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If everyone removed their spare tire and jack from their trunk and stashed it in the garage we would remove 30 to 35 pounds of weight from every car. I there are 100 million cars on the road in the US that would eliminate 3 billion pounds of weight that is being hauled around for a flat tire that you will probably never get or that you couldn't change yourself anyway.
Get a can of Fix a Flat and loose the spare and jack.

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Break the oil monopoly on transportation
Posted by: rlseballos on Jul 11, 2008 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why not just focus on ending the oil monopoly on transportation. This is a liquid fuel problem. We can (a) create alternative liquid fuels - ethanol from biomass or coal - or any multitude of ways, and (b) develop electric vehicles - which again opens up wind, solar, nuclear, geothermal, hydro, coal etc to compete with oil.

Create choices by removing all taxes on the alternatives (no excise tax on the fuel, no sales tax on zero-oil vehicles), and slowly increase taxes on oil & oil-consuming vehicles - to keep government revenues unharmed.

All the other stuff to improve efficiency, or raise cost of transportation - will have little effect, or just hurt people who have to bear the burden.

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Nick Freudenberg
Posted by: nfreuden on Jul 11, 2008 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for the timely analysis of the fading prospects for SUVs. For a public health perspective on this topic, see "The Perils of Short-term Profiteering:U.S. Automakers Focus on SUVs Hurts Their Profits and Our Health" at http://www.corporationsandhealth.org
Corporations and Health Watch monitors the health impacts of the practices of the automobile, alcohol,food, firearms, tobacco and pharmaceutical industries.

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Nice article!
Posted by: peterwinters on Jul 11, 2008 8:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First time I have come across this site - and really liked this article. Well done.

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Doesn't 7.5 percent seem a little low?
Posted by: jehu83 on Jul 11, 2008 9:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So if we switch to Priuses then our gasoline consumption would decrease by just 7.5 percent. I believe thats the statistic provided in this article. But does that make sense? If the average mpg of an American car is, say, 18mpg, and we replaced this average vehicle by a new average vehicle which gets 30mpg, then we have saved 12mpg. Given we drive the same number of miles in our 18mpg cars as we do in the 30mpg ones, how is it that we have not saved 12mpg times the number of miles we are driving? Say you drive 15,000 miles per year. With a 30mpg, you burn 500 gallons of gas. With an 18mpg, you burn 833 gallons of gas. Ok, something like that was in the article. But how does that correlate to saving 7.5 percent? (833-500)/833= 40 percent. Or 500/833 = 60 percent. So where is the rest of the gasoline going so that our 40 percent magically becomes 7.5? Is it because only SUVs were to be replaced by Priuses in this scheme? Are there so many crappy old Oldsmobiles, Crown Victorias, and -- the big ugly one -- semi-trucks that they all dragging us down more than SUVs? It seems so accoring to the statistics in this article. So isn't it awesome that Barak is talking about mpg limits for consumers instead of protection for local farmers and manufacturers? More weight on the shoulders of the consumer and less weight on those of the producer. Thats a recipe that sounds familiar. Super!

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Shifting Gears (and Habits)
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Jul 11, 2008 10:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has been one of the best articles I've seen on this website, because our habits greatly affect the environment, and it's about time the decline of larger vehicles could reduce the carbon footprint each of these monsters leave behind.
Life is all about choices; and if in the U.S.A. auto manufacturers can build more fuel efficient vehicles (but not EVERYONE can drive a Prius), motorists can claim the streets without having to glance around a Dodge Ram or an SUV.
Part of the blame lies on the Big Three making pickups and SUVs (why do you mainly only see ONE person in a Suburban or Excursion!!) that clog the roads and there are a ton of these kinds in Los Angeles.
Nevertheless people will continue to drive these elephantine beasts regardless of gas and maintenance required. God forbid if anyone buys an SUV/pickup over six years old. We still need a truck to haul things, but as the author notes, many of these vehicles don't carry a payload; rather, some are "pimped out" with fancy rims and you possibly can't drive a customized truck/SUV on dirt roads. You see these ugly things on city streets without dirt on them, as seen in L.A.
A long over due shift in our driving habits finally has come. The lesson learned is that we can't continue our wasteful ways with the earth's resources. The final cost is not to automakers, bankers, per se, but to the environment.

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And now: Coal-Powered SUVs
Posted by: PaulK on Jul 11, 2008 1:30 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Nazis, in their last days, derived fuel from German coal mines in the Ruhr Valley. Would you expect less of the global warming deniers and need-to-feel-safe suburban middle class 400 pound almost legless auto drivers? Buy 'n Large would approve heartily.

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Big Three and Fuel Economy
Posted by: boatboy_srq on Jul 11, 2008 3:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would be more hopeful if the big US automakers showed some signs that they "get it" when it comes to fuel economy. However, just as in 1973, they're seeingly doing everything they can NOT to do anything.

Take, for example, the Astra. A Vauxhall/Opel standard for over twenty years, it's recognized as an upmarket yet efficient not-so-small car in Europe. This year, bearing a Saturn badge, it came to the U.S. But the European version, which gets 35 city and 55 highway (Imperial gallons, according to UK reviews) from a 1.6-litre, didn't mke it: instead, the US version gets 24 city and 32 highway from a 1.8-litre (this from Saturn's own website).

Now granted, the Imperial gallon is roughly 110% of a US gallon, so the European model isn't as thrifty as those numbers look at first glance, but they still equate at least to 30-plus and high-40s in US measures. And granted the European and US fuel economy methodologies are slightly different (the US, for example, takes into account air conditioning usage). But that's not the point. What matters here is that every major US auto manufacturer has a counterpart or subsidiary in Europe, building fuel-efficient vehicles there - yet the technology and engineering don't come to the US and don't get integrated into vehicles produced domestically - even in the same body style or vehicle family. The Astra - whose observed performance in Saturn' incarnation is about 60% that of its Vauxhall and Opel brethren - is proof. And the Astra is - like the Pinto and Vega before it - also prof that Detroit is either unable or unwilling to answer the US consumers' desire for a more-efficient vehicle - even when the Big Three have the expertise and experience under their own roofs to give them one.

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» RE: Big Three and Fuel Economy Posted by: boatboy_srq
» RE: Big Three and Fuel Economy Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Big Three and Fuel Economy Posted by: boatboy_srq
Love my SUV
Posted by: zorba1 on Jul 11, 2008 4:14 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yep, i do. I manage to get 20 mpg out of her as long as i keep her tuned and the tires at 50 psi.
I have always loved big vehicles, i had 60, 62, and 67 caddy converts among a thousand or so other vehicles.
I never bought a new car in my life. I never had the income to do so and most certainly do not have it now.
Due to my pacemaker most hybrids are out of the question anyways.
Forget electric cars.
My wife is totally blind and has a guide dog, i am over six foot tall and am the father of 31 kids, i did my part to populate our world.
We have always had big vans the last twenty-five years.
I have a big stretch Limo in the backyard now an 89 lincoln towncar, it carries 11 of us. In overdrive she gets 20 mpg on the highway.
I will continue to drive my SUV untill i die or somrthing comes along which can carry at least nine or ten people and a seeing eye dog.
It takes 1,760 acres of trees to use the CO2 of one vehicle in one year.
Start planting trees, almost four billion acres of trees have been cleared in the last three hundred years. 20,000 acres are cleared each day right now.
There are about four billion vehicles on the worlds roads, maybe the worlds governments need to institute a policy of scrapping two vehicles for each new one made.
Meanwhile i cannot afford a smaller car even if i could find one which can hold several people and a seeing eye dog.

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maple story mesos
Posted by: cheap-msmesos on Jul 12, 2008 7:52 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another Overlooked Point...?
Posted by: BigRon on Jul 13, 2008 8:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not only do we Europeans tend not to drive SUV's, we ALSO tend to drive vehicles with manual gear shifts. If you're not actually driving "off-road", a manual shift is typically 10% more economical in terms of gas consumption than an automatic gear box.

SUV's aside, the majority of automobiles are designed by Europeans (who think American designed cars just look plain ugly!) There has been a steady slide towards U.S. makers hiring European designers for a long while.

It was Ben Franklin who said "Gentlemen, if we don't learn to hang together, then we shall certainly all be hanged seperately." It was good advice over two hundred years ago, and it's probably even more true today. There are few places in the world less well suited to deal with a major economic downturn than the USA. Russia imploded with amazing rapidity in 1991: flag waving "patriotism" won't save the USA from a similar fate.

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It may just be that economics is what causes the shift
Posted by: djnoll on Jul 13, 2008 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My husband last year insisted on purchasing a 1-ton, crew cab GMC pick-up. Now there were valid reasons - hauling heavy equipment boxes, furniture during several long distance moves for work - but this last move put us 30 miles from Las Vegas in the middle of nowhere in a town with no grocery store, bank, and two very high priced gas stations. There is obviously no public transportation here either. When gas here hit $4.50 per gallon, I finally said enough, we sell the truck, and he agreed after one $135.00 fill-up (he usually did two per week).

We traded the truck for two vehicles - a small Ford Sport-trac to cover the needs of his job, and a small 2008 Yaris for me. When we did the math, we will save enough on gas and insurance on the two vehicles to cover the payment on the truck. While I am not happy about car payments, and I do not drive often because of health problems, the economics and necessity of these two vehicles makes sense. I like that my Yaris gets nearly 40 mpg while his truck now gets 18-19 mpg vs. the 8-10 on the bigger truck.

I have read in one of these postings about the job losses, and the sad fact is that these job losses were preventable. The writing has been on the wall for years, but big motor companies and oil companies have not wanted the American people to see it. Perhaps the employees that will be laid off should form their own corporation and buy out the plants, do conversions on the equipment, and then lease the plants back to the big companies to make the smaller, fuel efficient cars for them. Then they create local jobs for themselves, can restructure the plants to be energy efficient and environmental friendly, and keep America on wheels. Who knows, perhaps one such plant could actually develop the car that we all want - one that is fast, goes great distances, and does not need fossil fuels! After all, look what Saturn did when they first started with just one model!

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Bicycles
Posted by: Urgelt on Jul 13, 2008 2:23 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good article, Alternet.

Let's talk about bicycles. After all, bicycles are relatively cheap (compared to cars), and they are ridiculously efficient transportation for short distances (say, under 15 miles).

There are two basic models of bikes being manufactured in the world today: "tear-up-dirt" bicycles that are fun to take off-road, and lightweight "go-fast" bicycles. All of the world's bike manufacturers make mostly these two types of bike. A small niche exists for a third type: the recumbent bike, which offers a more comfortable riding position and less wind resistance.

All of these bikes have one thing in common: they are useless for hauling. They can carry a rider and what is in his pockets, and not much else. They can't carry 8 bags of groceries or a new microwave, and you can't use them to safely ferry a couple kids to school. And if you somehow could load them up with cargo like that, they'd be *really* hard to pedal. Not much fun. Thanks, but I'll just use the car.

As a consequence, we do not think of bikes as a reasonable alternative to cars for running errands. They're fine for recreation, but that's it.

But you know, in the third world, that's not how bikes are seen. To people whose poverty prevents them from owning a car for the entire lives, a bike looks pretty sweet. They use bikes for anything you can imagine: heavy hauling, taxi cabs, anything. Trailers behind bikes are a common sight in many parts of the world, too.

What would it take to get Americans using bicycles instead of their cars for running errands and light hauling?

There are two exciting trends in bicycles that might just do the trick.

The first is electric assist bikes. An electric assist can be added to a bike which will enable any rider to outperform an olympic athlete with very little effort (or no effort at all), and do it for a good long ways (as much as 100 miles, depending on batteries, model, etc). Suddenly strapping a microwave on a bike doesn't sound as though it would make pedaling such a chore.

The cost of electricity to recharge the batteries for an electric-assist bicycle is measured in pennies.

The second is the arrival of several "longtail" bicycle designs. A longtail bike is built to stand up to heavy loading. It is longer. It has plenty of room for cargo in the rear, and it's remarkably stable, no matter how much cargo it's carrying. Here's a picture of one: http://yubaride.com/Images/mundo_red_800.gif

Here's some more: http://www.xtracycle.com/models.php#complete

When you put the two trends together, you get an electric-assist longtail - a bike easier to ride than an unpowered bike, and capable of being used for light hauling. It can replace many of the short trips you make with a car.

At present, longtail bikes are available from several vendors in the US (but they sell out very quickly, there's usually a waiting list). Kits to add a very capable electric assist to any bike are readily available, though prices are a wee bit steep right now (that'll change as lithium polymer battery costs start coming down). Bottom line is that if you want to be an early adopter, and start using a bike instead of a car or truck for errands and light hauling, you can.

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One answer might be: Tolls on gas guzzlers using freeways to commute to work
Posted by: snideelf on Jul 14, 2008 8:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The more gas the car or truck uses the higher the toll.
Cars with high MPG would pay the least toll.
This might encourage owners of gas guzzlers to buy more fuel efficient vehicles and leave their gas guzzlers at home or for short trips.

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ba
Posted by: mnstra on Jul 15, 2008 12:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The SUV has been the most sexulized piece of junk to come along since nylons.It can't die fast enough for Atlanta where they clog all the roads and tailgate up our rear ends,
while reducing visibility.The main satisfaction to driving one is how safe you think you are when you ram drivers of sedans in the rear. It is a giant phallic symbol worthy of psychoanalysis.

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TIMES CHANGE
Posted by: modeler on Jul 15, 2008 1:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So the Ford Explorer became the Exploder. And GM doesnt pay the 1 Dollar per share, they need more loans. Sign of the times? Are they going broke a predicted?

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SUVS WILL RETURN WITH A VENGEANCE!!!
Posted by: rickiey on Jul 16, 2008 10:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And when they do, I'll buy one. Because when they come back they'll be electric and driving one won't hurt our environment.

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