as it did in 2004 when they officially labeled Kerry as “flip-flopper” yet there is really no need of preaching to the choir here at AlterNet about McCain since we know this clown would continue the never-ending train wreck. Which readers at AlterNet are planning to vote for McCain anyway? The concern should be about Obama’s u-turns and what he will be up to if he becomes president.

The first of Benen’s examples of McCain’s flip-flops coincides exactly with Obama’s u-turn on supporting Congress’s decision to give immunity to the telephone companies involved in the Bush administration's controversial wiretap program. Obama has also flip-flopped on Iraq, campaign finance, gun control, and free trade (NAFTA). The last one will affect ordinary Americans the most while enriching the corporations for another four years (this ties in with his u-turn on campaign finance).

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

and I get to #12 on this list...

she turns to me and says "he's old and addled and confused"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

McCain is making "character" and "steadfastness" the main issues of his campaign. Let's hoist him on his own petard and publicize his chicanery far and wide! The MSM will not run these types of stories by and large. Let's put our heads together and come up with creative ways to exploit McCain's foibles. Write articles, set up blogs, use Google adwords so that every time someone searches for John McCain, this article or a similar one comes up!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

While I'm an Obama supporter I doubt ANYONE can accuse McCain of flip flopping considering Obama's tumble in the past few weeks.

McCain is looking like the rock solid candidate now!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It is not a flip-flop if you change your position to my position. If you do not believe me, just ask Hannity.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

and do you think that the two candidates for the Presidency are anything more than "flip-flops?" I don't and therein lies one helluva problem for Amurikuns!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Can we just dump these two parties and move on to a viable third party and/or Independent who is progressive/liberal for a change? For the past 28 years, we have been drowning ourselves with a DISHONEST Democratic Party that only caters to the GOP when the elections are over !!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

John McCain is Death marching confidently towards Armageddon as millions follow meekly behind, because apparently, as I predicted, Israel and the USA will be at war with Iran before the elections, maybe even before the Conventions.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

and screw the people, we're in for four more years of getting bent over the barrel. This is likely the end of America as envisioned by the founders and the beginning of a pre-revolutionary America. Unfortunately, a large portion of the American population are irrational, bigotted, ignorant clots who think their god is going to destroy everyone who doesn't believe the way they do. Global "Dark Ages" anyone?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Folks on here claiming Obama and Mccain present an identical danger, when in truth, Obama may be the country's only "hope" for avoiding a serious ecomonomic depression. Will somebody please recognize that this election really does matter?

PS: I don't remember y'all being so hard on Kerry even though he was a complete centrist blowhard. The differences were stark back then. Guess what: They still are!!! Let's not spite any faces this year satisfying as it may be at first.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I mean it's not as though anybody means to do anything about it. McCain and lately Obama are not 'fip floppers' which I'm tired of hearing, they are liars. They have both taken changing their minds to a new and preposterous level. Say something on a Tuesday and then take the rest of the week to qualify the statement because it didn't land quite right. Get it right the first time. Don't make promises to do anything. You both know what most Americans want and need. Get to work. Thanks, ANNA

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This morning, in the process of converting our cars to hydrogen fuel, I made my tenth "flip-flop." I keep adjusting my tactics whenever I make a mistake, that is. So wishy-washy am I that I change my mind all the time. It's because I make mistakes, and either notice for myself or have someone else notice.

That, incidentally, used to be evidence of a mind functioning well. On the contrary, one who could not or would not change his mind was known as a fanatic or a bigot.

I'm older, of course, and times have changed. One thing hasn't changed: I won't vote for - or be associated with - anyone who won't "flip-flop."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

We all know he's a flip-flopper and a nut to boot. Leave him alone and let him run. He'll be the easiest target for Obama by far. The demos need to focus on the rethug effort to falsify the vote count (as in 2000 & 2004), or create a situation wherein mcbush won't be able to continue his campaign, and a romney or jeb is inserted in his place. Another possibility is another 911. Don't put ANYTHING past this evil regime.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This is a great article. I wonder if the left is smart enough to elect Obama, or if we’ll be the same ‘ol dumbasses that put everything from Ronald Reagan to GW Bush in the White House by tearing at our own candidate like a pack of dogs on fresh meat. Republican strategists are just gleeful when they start seeing some of the nonsense we’re seeing regarding Obama and his “flip-flopping” on FISA, gun control, NAFTA, murdering rapists and murderers, etc.

One can argue until they’re blue things like “well, the Supreme Court decided it’s okay for the state to murder rapists, so what difference does Obama’s opinion make,” but all of the arguments are lost as the raging left wages a battle to promote a “viable third party candidate;” an oxymoron if there ever was one.

Obama knows a lot of things. He knows, for instance, most of us on the left understand that the left cannot, and never has, elected a president; the middle always does. He knows the answer to questions like is Obama or McCain more likely to appoint Supreme Court justices who will make rulings more aligned with liberal philosophy? This is the critical decision the next president will have. He will present at least two Supreme Court justices as at least two current sitting justices were appointed by more liberal presidents and lean to more liberal opinions and will either retire or die in the coming president’s term.

These appointments are generational in nature as their decisions have ramifications that dramatically impact the future and currently the court is more or less balanced (leans conservative).

Obama knows, too, like those of us with a brain in our head, he isn’t fighting against McCain. Rather Obama is fighting against how he will be defined. If he’s defined as a normal liberal whack job whose “so far left he’s left America,” as many appear to want to define him even those who allegedly want “change” and want to “get rid of Bush,” then McCain and his neocons will get the opportunity for a third Bush term and an opportunity to overturn little inconsequential things like Roe v. Wade. If, on the other hand, Obama can tack to the center and get elected, then we can once again have a voice and perhaps bring compassion back into the natural conservatism that most of us applaud as none of us stand up and say “let’s raise taxes so we can waste tons of money on brash, illegal wars, like Iran.” Or, as Bush says “let’s not raise taxes. Our kids and their kids can pay for our stupidity.”

The choice is very clear in this election and it’s not even close to the idiocy of “the lesser of two evils” and it’s not cutesy moronic blogosphere comparisons like “McCain = Obama.” This thing is terribly, terribly important and those who cannot see the difference and cannot understand how people get elected and cannot understand that reality sometimes dictate we get in bed with folks that make us vomit need to sit on the sidelines and quietly watch because their big threats of “voting for McCain” and their idle ramblings aren’t helping us fix this dramatically broken earth, even if the fix that is being offered is far from the perfect world each of us would easily create given even a tenth the opportunity any one of these guys has; then, we’d have the perfect world and the perfect candidate.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This will make a difference?? You gotta be kidding!!

I've been watching Lou Dobbs for years now trying to figure out the what, who, where, and why of the Independent 'movement." On the face of it, "declaring" your independence sounds admirable - something our ForeParents did years ago: brave, new, exciting, even dangerous.

I see Barney Franks and Joe Lieberman with the Independent label. Throw in Ross Perot and John Anderson (now there's a Flash from the Past, huh?). How about the billionaire mayor of New York?

What do they have in common with Lou Dobbs? Precious little, except a label.

In other words, the label Independent is meaningless, and "viable" ain't gonna happen - at least not in this lifetime.

THEREFORE, you learn to play in the sandbox, like all the other little kids.

Sounds like selling out, you say? Naw, not at all, as long as you keep your eye on the prize.

I believe that Barack Obama has his eye firmly fixed on "the prize." This is something, obviously, that the Rev. Jesse Jackson isn't doing, unfortunately. Neither has Rev. Wright. Or President Clinton, apparently. (Just to name a few who should know better.)

And neither do those who continue to whine about finding a "viable, Independent Third Party Candidate." Get in the sandbox like the rest of us...toss a little sand about...build your sandcastles...and keep your eye on the prize.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The reason is related to McCain's actions as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam conflict. Simply put, his behavior 40 years ago shows he is not the man of integrity he claims to be.

Although bound by the Code of Conduct for POWs that states American prisoners shall not accept "special favors" from the enemy, McCain did exactly by smoking cigarettes offered to him by his captors.

Food is different; a POW is obligated to eat all he can, when he can, and then share the information with fellow POWs so his rations can be divided among the other men based on the estimated calories consumed. This was especially important during WWII to fight starvation in German and Japanese internment camps. Conversely, cigarettes have no food value and are considered enemy gifts with a price tag attached―such as revealing classified information.

When McCain took that first puff, his captors knew instantly he had a weakness for nicotine that could make him more vulnerable to disclosing military secrets during interrogations, which he did.

In return for medical treatment at a civilian hospital, a privilege never granted to other injured POWs, McCain told NVA interrogators the name of his aircraft carrier, how many Navy pilots had been lost, the number of planes in his flight formation, tactics used during bomb runs and the location of rescue ships in the Tonkin Gulf. Because of those revelations, the North Vietnamese contemptuously nicknamed him the "Songbird."

After his six-week stay in the hospital, McCain continued to cooperate with the North Vietnamese. He made radio broadcasts for the enemy and met with foreign dignitaries, including a Cuban intelligence officer. He was also interviewed by two NVA generals -- one of them Vietnam’s great national hero, Vo Nguyen Giap.

Photographs of the meetings show McCain in a comfortable setting, enjoying hot tea with his captors (another no-no) while back at the Hanoi Hilton, other POWs were fighting to stay alive.

On June 4, 1969, a U.S. wire service story headlined, “PW Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral,” described one of McCain’s radio recordings: “Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of the United States commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical treatment he has received since being taken prisoner.”

True or not about the specific details of his confessions, McCain admitted in writing that he revealed “information about my ship and squadron.”

In the same paragraph, he claimed, “The information was of no real use to the Vietnamese.”

Well, that’s not what retired Army Colonel Earl Hopper believes.

A veteran of World War II, Korea and Vietnam, he contends the information McCain disclosed was used by North Vietnam to fine-tune their air defense system.

Hopper’s son, Air Force Lt. Colonel Earl Pearson Hopper, was shot down over North Vietnam and later declared “Missing in Action.” As a result of his loss, the elder Hopper co-founded the National League of Families, an organization devoted to the return of Vietnam War POWs.

There are numerous Vietnam veterans, including fellow POWs, who think McCain crossed the line during his NVA interrogations and cooperated more than he should have. Many others believe McCain betrayed the families of American servicemen missing in Southeast Asia by abruptly ending the 1992 Senate investigation and sealing their records.

Assuming those perceptions are correct, they explain why McCain has flip-flopped this year on many important matters, such as torture, Bush tax cuts, etc. Clearly his core values are conflicted. Otherwise, he is not being true to himself and the American people.

.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Most of McCain's statements are public record and even more important he has probably been recorded making the statements. I hope MoveOn.org gets a hold of the info and makes some real good flip-flop adds. Let's expose him for what he realy is; someone who would eat dogshit to get elected.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It turns out that Barak Obama will not have our troops out of Iraq by the end of 2009 as he promised. He loves free trade and he thinks everyone should own a gun. Welfare-to-work was apparently his idea and faith based social services should receive even more government money AND have the right to hire only people of the same faith. If he moves any more to the right, I'M going to vote for him.

Are you guys even paying attention?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

"We're beginning to understand why Barack Obama keeps protesting so vigorously against the prospect of "George Bush's third term." Maybe he's worried that someone will notice that he's the candidate who's running for it."

July 2, 2008

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

While it is sometimes fun to fight fire with fire, we cannot simultaneously decry the ridiculous use of a term like "flip-flopper" and then use it ourselves when it suits.

In a post at my blog, I note that we can choose a different word for flip-flopper: Mature, thinking adult. Someone who learns, and then applies what he learns to life, and yes, changes his mind.

That's someone I want to lead my country. A mature, thinking adult. A grown-up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

McCain/Obama. The only differences emerging now seem to be:

One is black, one is white.

One is young, one is old.

One has some charisma, the other is a "fuddy-dud."

So apparently, the above criteria are what the American People will have to use in order to decide the next President. It won't be any separate or distinct polices that each men might have, because they now have virtually the same policies.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

How can anyone really take as gospel anything they say. Bush is nothing that he promised he would be. We never know ahead of time what we are getting by their words. You have to try to use your gut to judge who they are. Only after they are elected will we find out who they really are. Things they say now are political jockying. Voting for someone because of what they say is foolish. Look at their record and
your gut feeling and guess.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

McBushes middle name should be "Flip Flop" that moron cannot remember from one day to the next where he stands!

JT
Ultimate Anonymity

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Until we can get the election process into the 21st century there is no point in discussing what any candidate thinks or rethinks.We no longer need the electorial college. Until we can keep voter list from being purged and voters from being turned away at their polling sites we don't have a true democracy. Until we get the democracy I thought we had until the 2000 election, flip flopping candidates are not high on my list of priorities. The way things are now, 75% of Americans could vote for candidate (A) and candidate (B) could still get the majority of electorial votes and win.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I am fairly far to the left. At the same time, I am tired of the idiots who are turning against Obama and saying - again - that there is little difference between the two candidates.

In 2000, they were one of the reasons that Al Gore lost. They undermined Kerry, whom I detest, but voted for, in 2004. And now they are jumping all over Obama. Mainly because their lives have no meaning unless they rebel against something. Get a shrink, fools.

If you think there is no difference, imagine what would NOT have happened under Gore, instead of Bush. No Iraq war. No destruction of the Constitution. No pullout from Kyoto. The list goes on for a long time.

He is NOT the lesser of two evils. He is a moderate Democrat who would do a fine job with the load of crap that the next president will inherit.

Go vote for Nader if you really need attention.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

whatever president will move us away from police controlled big brother states and crazy security is the one I want. I'd rather die a 1 out of a million chance death from a terrorist than live my whole life knowing I have no privacy. The government digs too deep into other people's business and should be slapped in the face for doing so. I still can't believe people can be arrested and punished for smoking weed. I wouldn't be surprised if we reverted back to using slaves, as it seems our country's morals are going in a backwards direction. (racism needs to be eliminated!!!! give us our privacy back, the government DID NOT CREATE LIFE!!)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

..........is stupid, ignorant, mock-tough, and hypocritical. In other words, like Reagan and Bush. He's the perfect Refucklican candidate, whom millions will vote for.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]