COMMENTS: 41
When Riding the Bus Turns into a Ticket to Jail
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U.S. Customs and Border Protection, also known as the Border Patrol, confirms that its agents in Syracuse, Rochester and Buffalo check the citizenship status of travelers passing through by bus and train every day. These three cities are within 100 miles of the US-Canadian border. But more important than the border zone is the location of these cities on a major transportation corridor linking the Northeast (New York City and Boston) with the Midwest (Cleveland and Chicago). Border Patrol agents use Syracuse's location as the functional equivalent of the border to police people traveling within the interior of the country.
Agents check for citizenship in the bus and train station -- often waiting at the Greyhound ticket counter, or watching people as they disembark for food -- and onboard buses and trains already filled with passengers. People who have witnessed or been subject to Border Patrol agents questioning describe two practices: agents explicitly target a group of people or ask everyone on board about their citizenship status.
According to reports from the Detainment Task Force, a Northern New York group, people routinely singled out for questioning include those who appear to be Mexican, Central American, South Asian, Asian, Afro-Caribbean, or Middle Eastern. Border Patrol officials deny that the agency racially profiles, insisting that they look for suspicious behaviors and, "question people with blond hair and blue eyes as much as anyone else." But common understandings of race in the U.S. fuse nationality and ethnicity so that some groups are permanently deemed to be "foreign."
The story of Tomas, who is from Guatemala, illustrates the ways in which law enforcement's use of racial profiling -- and the collaboration of local law enforcement with Border Patrol agents -- impedes people's ability to travel.
In July 2007, Tomas and his friend Salvador were driving to a doctor's appointment. As they pulled out of the toll plaza from the I-90 throughway in Syracuse, a state trooper stopped them. Tomas has a valid U.S. driver's license and a properly registered vehicle. The state trooper gave no indication of why he had stopped the vehicle, but he did ask Tomas and Salvador about their immigration status and then called Border Patrol agents. "The police officer stopped us because we have Hispanic faces," Tomas said.
Tomas has had the same experience traveling by bus. Last October he was traveling to Syracuse on Greyhound when Border Patrol agents boarded the bus at the Rochester bus station. "The Border Patrol agents questioned all the Hispanic, Middle Eastern and Asian passengers," he recalled. "They did not question any of the white passengers except some women who were wearing veils. Border Patrol had dogs with them and checked the whole bus. They even looked in the bathroom."
A separate incident occurred in December when Tomas was at the Syracuse bus station with another friend. They were speaking to each other in Spanish as they approached the ticket counter where a Border Patrol agent was stationed. "As soon as the Border Patrol agent heard us speaking Spanish, he asked me for my papers," he said.
Even when Latino travelers produce documents proving their legal status, they are not safe from harassment.
When Tomas finally boarded the bus and arrived in Rochester, Border Patrol was there as well. "I saw them [Border Patrol] on the platform questioning two Hispanic men. The men gave them permanent resident cards. The Border Patrol agent didn't believe them. He took the cards and called somewhere else. The men had to wait for twenty minutes." The two men were eventually released.
Tomas's testimony is not unique. A professor at Syracuse University who is a naturalized citizen originally from the Dominican Republic has been questioned multiple times in his travels and a Syracuse University student who is a U.S. citizen of South Asian descent was separated from his wife, a legal permanent resident, and both interrogated about their status.
Racial profiling is never just an inconvenience; it systematically diminishes the civil rights and protections for entire groups of people. It is done to the Black community and the practice has now been extended to anyone who looks to be an immigrant. While most people of color are targeted, those who are most vulnerable are people whose visas have expired and unauthorized migrants for whom boarding a Greyhound bus becomes a ticket to jail. In Syracuse alone, multiple families have been separated for the crime of traveling while undocumented.
There is a seeming perversity to arresting migrants who are leaving the country as in the case of Artemio and his friends. But, this is now part of the country's increasingly criminalized migration policy. The Los Angeles Times reported last month on outbound border checkpoints near San Diego-Tijuana where a Border Patrol official explained, "If our officers come upon people who are here illegally . . . regardless of whether they're leaving the country, we detain them, make a record of the fact they were here illegally and return them to Mexico." This practice is reminiscent of Operation Streamline, a Border Patrol operation in Tucson, AZ that prosecutes and jails unauthorized border crossers. Currently, the U.S. Senate's Border Security and Enforcement First caucus is trying to expand this practice nationwide.
The criminalization of migration strips people of their rights and protections and solidifies racial and class hierarchies in the process. Turning the Syracuse bus and train station into a migrant policing checkpoint is one place in which we can see how the spectacles of "secure borders" and "dangerous foreigners" works to also produce a rights-less and more exploitable workforce.
Watch a video documenting an actual raid on a Greyhound bus, filmed by Andrew Burton, a Syracuse University junior journalism student and winner of a 2008 Hearst Journalism Award.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: ArtemInox on Jun 23, 2008 1:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Real cute how the author put "immigrants".
People here legally don't get deported most of the time. Yeah I know, but the country was settled some time ago, times have changed.
What I would be interested in knowing is why no real measures are taken to prevent illegals from coming in, places where it can be done.
Another one of those insoluble problems for us to jabber on and feel outraged about, I suppose. I'll get my bag of fist shaking and angst out now.
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» RE: No suggestions?
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willie.horton on Jun 23, 2008 3:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The many millions of people who have become American citizens and permanent residents -- including most of our ancestors -- are "immigrants."
People who have entered illegally, or overstayed their visas, are "criminals."
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» RE: They are not "deporting immigrants"
Posted by: republicanwriter
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Jun 23, 2008 4:18 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Criminals no longer safe and secure on the buses? What next?
Posted by: schokoprinz
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Allstar Cookie on Jun 23, 2008 5:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They ask EVERYONE in a vehicle their citizenship EVERY TIME you cross the border. No one person or vehicle is singled out. They've been doing this since I was a boy......long before the word terrorism was in our common vocabulary.
The practice of singling out a vehicle for more detail inspection has also been standard procedure.......and was always more of a quota than profiling. I'm sure today, profiling is a big part of a more detail inspection.........but what are agents supposed to do???
People in law enforcement have to profile.......it's impossible not to.
Of course, it should be done with as much dignity and haste as possible.
Allstar Cookie
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» RE: This article is very misleading.....the Peace Bridge.....
Posted by: chuckjs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ankhet on Jun 23, 2008 5:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The issue is also somewhat muddied, isn't it? And I think it's being muddied on purpose. Don't people have to apply for immigrant status, no matter where they're from? Aren't there months of paperwork, doctor's appointments, and waiting time before immigrant status is granted? Isn't that normal? Why then is it acceptable for Mexicans and Central Americans to be in the country without the relevant papers? Why do those illegals demand the rights of citizens, healthcare, and education?
Could it be that someone is actually benefiting from the illegal status of the southerners? Though not the only transgressors, Smithfield-Tyson comes to mind - low pay, no health and safety standards, no benefits, worked half to death in the factory or as cleaning staff, and on payday - the Immigration Police rounds everybody up! That's the pattern; that's the evil. The wealthy and industrialists are the people who benefit from this "crime". They somehow never get arrested for breaking the law in hiring illegals and violating human rights.
I'd keep my eye on the day and time of the bus round-ups - after work hours and on payday.
America must push to get rid of NAFTA and all the other AFTA's that are messing up the lives of people south of the Rio Grande. Bringing back unions will also help protect you from the practice of abusing illegals.
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 23, 2008 6:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Axiom69 on Jun 23, 2008 6:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: EKSwitaj on Jun 23, 2008 7:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you believe in civil liberties, then you should have a problem with people showing their papers and still being detained and subjected to interrogation.
Why do these violations become acceptable when they're done in the name of uncovering immigrants who lack legal papers?
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» You can't buy a bus or Amtrak ticket without showing ID
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: An Issue of Civil Liberties
Posted by: L.A.Lynn
» RE: An Issue of Civil Liberties
Posted by: john mont
Comments are closed-
Posted by: L.A.Lynn on Jun 23, 2008 7:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What research have these journalists done to prove only certain ethnic types are questioned? Why, they were TOLD by Tomas , Artemio, and the Detainment Task Force -- all have stakes in making that point. It is amazing what passes for investigative reporting these days. I have a friend from El Salvador who told me twenty years ago that Latinos think Americans are suckers. Think I could write an article and get national publication from that story? I'd think there was something seriously wrong with journalistic standards, but given the depth of real investigation on these stories on immigration maybe that's just the problem.
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» RE: Investigative reporting
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 8 nontheist on Jun 23, 2008 7:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I'm speaking with Spanish speaking friends in Spanish, we get dirty looks. My favorite move is telling a monol-lingual English speaker who asks to speak English is to reply in English. "It took me a lot of time & hard work to learn Spanish; if you don't like it when I speak Spanish to my friends, that's tough.". When the monolingual American hears me speaking English with a US southern accent, they look very confused.
Cops are a trip. When they speak to me in Spanish or English, I reply in my Dixie, English drawl. I make sure to say "Yes, sir or yes, mam" Often I carry my US passport & show it to a cop who hassles me for speaking Spanish. Cops act astounded when I show them my passport which shows that I was born in the mid-west & my pocket sized laminated copy of my birth certificate & start speaking English to them in my slow Dixie drawl. I was raised in N Fla & stayed there till I got a job in Miami. Miami, Fla is now the northern most suburb of Havana, San Juan & Caracas.
I now live up north but still speak Spanish among my Spanish speaking associates. The manager of my bank's local branch & I do business in Spanish. Spanish is commonly used in business up north too.
Nace un gringo pero no hay nada deraho que dice hablar Ingles solamente.
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» RE: A hablo el Espanol es peligro de vez en cuando
Posted by: WesternNY
» You aren't doing your friends a favor by speaking Spanish
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
Posted by: war_on_tara on Jun 23, 2008 7:45 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "Hispanic faces"? In NY state, usually Puerto Rican of course
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SD on Jun 23, 2008 8:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am an American who is a legal immigrant living in Mexico. Over the years, I have never been asked to show my immigration papers anyplace other than while travelling on a bus (or when entering or leaving the country, of course). But I fully recognize that it is the Mexican government's right to ask me at any time because I am a guest in this country.
In the "interior" of Mexico, buses typically aren't stopped, but when approaching either border (but before reaching the 18 mile zone where Americans don't need tourist permits), buses are repeated stopped. I have had to show my papers dozens of times. Sometimes they check everyone's papers, but typically they just come straight to me (light skinned, blond hair, blue eyes) and to anyone else who speaks Spanish with a non-Mexican accent. Eventually people without papers are detained and the bus goes on without them. Everyone on the bus knows the drill, and we are all delayed at each stop.
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» question for SD-
Posted by: ptown
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Posted by: t.mc on Jun 23, 2008 10:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: PaulK on Jun 23, 2008 12:04 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's the problem with driving while black. Equal justice is not in fact given to the wrong skin color.
Now, what's wrong with riding a bus while tan? First, bad things happen so police can make up for making a bad charge. Second, it's inconvenient to be singled out and worked over by any form of cops. I'd hate it. Third, it's discrimination. Why should all tan people -- dark skinned Italians, for that matter dark Irishmen whose ancestors came here two centuries ago, descendants of Mexicans who found themselves living in Texas or California at the end of the War with Mexico, or second or third generation descendants of immigrants -- be discriminated against?
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» RE: Driving while Black
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Driving while Black
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Driving while Black
Posted by: john mont
» RE: Driving while Black
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sureshot45 on Jun 23, 2008 7:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: the same everywhere
Posted by: sureshot45
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Don on Jun 23, 2008 8:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have never heard you are legally required to carry ID at all times anywhere in the country, unless you are operating a motor vehicle.
Ironically,I have been carded when I purchase beer more times since I retired a year ago than I ever was when I was under 25.
The ID charade at airports, which went into effect before 11SE01 was originally driven by the airlines, for revenue protection reasons. Otherwise, rather than waste a non-refundable ticket, you might give it to a friend or relative.
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» RE: Americans do not have to carry "papers" on their person at all times.
Posted by: prfctsolar
» RE: Americans do not have to carry "papers" on their person at all times.
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: davy on Jun 24, 2008 12:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Beagle17 on Jun 24, 2008 6:43 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you really want to live in an America where authorities board buses randomly to search for "illegals"? I've traveled around a lot of places in Asia, and the only places I've ever been where that was practiced were southern China and Tibet.
So, does your Pavlovian fear of a "porous border" and craving for "national security" really require such actions in order for you to feel at peace?
Why do you think it is the buses they are checking? Well, that's where all the poor folk and "illegals" are more likely to be found. This is not a border security issue- it's not even happening at the borders - this is about getting the public used to the idea of arbitrary search and detainment.
So, sure, all you folks who think illegal immigration is such a serious problem that you want to live under authoritarian conditions visibly akin to China and other dictatorial regimes just to make things more difficult for those illegal immigrants who you probably join in the exploitation of, one way or another, directly or indirectly, you will get your wish soon enough I think. If you happen to be white and not use buses or trains, then you may not even notice. If you are of low-income or a visible minority, you will surely be affected and annoyed. In the end, the establishment powers are the ones who truly get what they want - sending the message out to all the peons - Big Brother is looking for you. As if there isn't something better to do with the tax haul.
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» RE: You're Missing The Point
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Missing the point
Posted by: WWMD
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Goizeder on Jun 27, 2008 11:10 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a boarding student who regularly heads home for the weekends. The Bus I take goes from Bangor (Maine) to I believe Loring. In Houlton, which is just across the border from Canada, but does not cross the border, Border control agents get on the bus and ask all the passengers about their status. That is illegal, since the bus is domestic only.
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» RE: I Recognise this...
Posted by: L.A.Lynn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ArtemInox on Jun 23, 2008 1:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Real cute how the author put "immigrants".
People here legally don't get deported most of the time. Yeah I know, but the country was settled some time ago, times have changed.
What I would be interested in knowing is why no real measures are taken to prevent illegals from coming in, places where it can be done.
Another one of those insoluble problems for us to jabber on and feel outraged about, I suppose. I'll get my bag of fist shaking and angst out now.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: No suggestions?
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willie.horton on Jun 23, 2008 3:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The many millions of people who have become American citizens and permanent residents -- including most of our ancestors -- are "immigrants."
People who have entered illegally, or overstayed their visas, are "criminals."
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: They are not "deporting immigrants"
Posted by: republicanwriter
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Jun 23, 2008 4:18 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Criminals no longer safe and secure on the buses? What next?
Posted by: schokoprinz
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Allstar Cookie on Jun 23, 2008 5:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They ask EVERYONE in a vehicle their citizenship EVERY TIME you cross the border. No one person or vehicle is singled out. They've been doing this since I was a boy......long before the word terrorism was in our common vocabulary.
The practice of singling out a vehicle for more detail inspection has also been standard procedure.......and was always more of a quota than profiling. I'm sure today, profiling is a big part of a more detail inspection.........but what are agents supposed to do???
People in law enforcement have to profile.......it's impossible not to.
Of course, it should be done with as much dignity and haste as possible.
Allstar Cookie
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: This article is very misleading.....the Peace Bridge.....
Posted by: chuckjs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ankhet on Jun 23, 2008 5:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The issue is also somewhat muddied, isn't it? And I think it's being muddied on purpose. Don't people have to apply for immigrant status, no matter where they're from? Aren't there months of paperwork, doctor's appointments, and waiting time before immigrant status is granted? Isn't that normal? Why then is it acceptable for Mexicans and Central Americans to be in the country without the relevant papers? Why do those illegals demand the rights of citizens, healthcare, and education?
Could it be that someone is actually benefiting from the illegal status of the southerners? Though not the only transgressors, Smithfield-Tyson comes to mind - low pay, no health and safety standards, no benefits, worked half to death in the factory or as cleaning staff, and on payday - the Immigration Police rounds everybody up! That's the pattern; that's the evil. The wealthy and industrialists are the people who benefit from this "crime". They somehow never get arrested for breaking the law in hiring illegals and violating human rights.
I'd keep my eye on the day and time of the bus round-ups - after work hours and on payday.
America must push to get rid of NAFTA and all the other AFTA's that are messing up the lives of people south of the Rio Grande. Bringing back unions will also help protect you from the practice of abusing illegals.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 23, 2008 6:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Axiom69 on Jun 23, 2008 6:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: EKSwitaj on Jun 23, 2008 7:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you believe in civil liberties, then you should have a problem with people showing their papers and still being detained and subjected to interrogation.
Why do these violations become acceptable when they're done in the name of uncovering immigrants who lack legal papers?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» You can't buy a bus or Amtrak ticket without showing ID
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: An Issue of Civil Liberties
Posted by: L.A.Lynn
» RE: An Issue of Civil Liberties
Posted by: john mont
Comments are closed-
Posted by: L.A.Lynn on Jun 23, 2008 7:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What research have these journalists done to prove only certain ethnic types are questioned? Why, they were TOLD by Tomas , Artemio, and the Detainment Task Force -- all have stakes in making that point. It is amazing what passes for investigative reporting these days. I have a friend from El Salvador who told me twenty years ago that Latinos think Americans are suckers. Think I could write an article and get national publication from that story? I'd think there was something seriously wrong with journalistic standards, but given the depth of real investigation on these stories on immigration maybe that's just the problem.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Investigative reporting
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 8 nontheist on Jun 23, 2008 7:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I'm speaking with Spanish speaking friends in Spanish, we get dirty looks. My favorite move is telling a monol-lingual English speaker who asks to speak English is to reply in English. "It took me a lot of time & hard work to learn Spanish; if you don't like it when I speak Spanish to my friends, that's tough.". When the monolingual American hears me speaking English with a US southern accent, they look very confused.
Cops are a trip. When they speak to me in Spanish or English, I reply in my Dixie, English drawl. I make sure to say "Yes, sir or yes, mam" Often I carry my US passport & show it to a cop who hassles me for speaking Spanish. Cops act astounded when I show them my passport which shows that I was born in the mid-west & my pocket sized laminated copy of my birth certificate & start speaking English to them in my slow Dixie drawl. I was raised in N Fla & stayed there till I got a job in Miami. Miami, Fla is now the northern most suburb of Havana, San Juan & Caracas.
I now live up north but still speak Spanish among my Spanish speaking associates. The manager of my bank's local branch & I do business in Spanish. Spanish is commonly used in business up north too.
Nace un gringo pero no hay nada deraho que dice hablar Ingles solamente.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: A hablo el Espanol es peligro de vez en cuando
Posted by: WesternNY
» You aren't doing your friends a favor by speaking Spanish
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
Posted by: war_on_tara on Jun 23, 2008 7:45 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "Hispanic faces"? In NY state, usually Puerto Rican of course
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SD on Jun 23, 2008 8:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am an American who is a legal immigrant living in Mexico. Over the years, I have never been asked to show my immigration papers anyplace other than while travelling on a bus (or when entering or leaving the country, of course). But I fully recognize that it is the Mexican government's right to ask me at any time because I am a guest in this country.
In the "interior" of Mexico, buses typically aren't stopped, but when approaching either border (but before reaching the 18 mile zone where Americans don't need tourist permits), buses are repeated stopped. I have had to show my papers dozens of times. Sometimes they check everyone's papers, but typically they just come straight to me (light skinned, blond hair, blue eyes) and to anyone else who speaks Spanish with a non-Mexican accent. Eventually people without papers are detained and the bus goes on without them. Everyone on the bus knows the drill, and we are all delayed at each stop.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» question for SD-
Posted by: ptown
Comments are closed-
Posted by: t.mc on Jun 23, 2008 10:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: PaulK on Jun 23, 2008 12:04 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's the problem with driving while black. Equal justice is not in fact given to the wrong skin color.
Now, what's wrong with riding a bus while tan? First, bad things happen so police can make up for making a bad charge. Second, it's inconvenient to be singled out and worked over by any form of cops. I'd hate it. Third, it's discrimination. Why should all tan people -- dark skinned Italians, for that matter dark Irishmen whose ancestors came here two centuries ago, descendants of Mexicans who found themselves living in Texas or California at the end of the War with Mexico, or second or third generation descendants of immigrants -- be discriminated against?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Driving while Black
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Driving while Black
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Driving while Black
Posted by: john mont
» RE: Driving while Black
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sureshot45 on Jun 23, 2008 7:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: the same everywhere
Posted by: sureshot45
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Don on Jun 23, 2008 8:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have never heard you are legally required to carry ID at all times anywhere in the country, unless you are operating a motor vehicle.
Ironically,I have been carded when I purchase beer more times since I retired a year ago than I ever was when I was under 25.
The ID charade at airports, which went into effect before 11SE01 was originally driven by the airlines, for revenue protection reasons. Otherwise, rather than waste a non-refundable ticket, you might give it to a friend or relative.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Americans do not have to carry "papers" on their person at all times.
Posted by: prfctsolar
» RE: Americans do not have to carry "papers" on their person at all times.
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: davy on Jun 24, 2008 12:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Beagle17 on Jun 24, 2008 6:43 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you really want to live in an America where authorities board buses randomly to search for "illegals"? I've traveled around a lot of places in Asia, and the only places I've ever been where that was practiced were southern China and Tibet.
So, does your Pavlovian fear of a "porous border" and craving for "national security" really require such actions in order for you to feel at peace?
Why do you think it is the buses they are checking? Well, that's where all the poor folk and "illegals" are more likely to be found. This is not a border security issue- it's not even happening at the borders - this is about getting the public used to the idea of arbitrary search and detainment.
So, sure, all you folks who think illegal immigration is such a serious problem that you want to live under authoritarian conditions visibly akin to China and other dictatorial regimes just to make things more difficult for those illegal immigrants who you probably join in the exploitation of, one way or another, directly or indirectly, you will get your wish soon enough I think. If you happen to be white and not use buses or trains, then you may not even notice. If you are of low-income or a visible minority, you will surely be affected and annoyed. In the end, the establishment powers are the ones who truly get what they want - sending the message out to all the peons - Big Brother is looking for you. As if there isn't something better to do with the tax haul.
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Posted by: Goizeder on Jun 27, 2008 11:10 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a boarding student who regularly heads home for the weekends. The Bus I take goes from Bangor (Maine) to I believe Loring. In Houlton, which is just across the border from Canada, but does not cross the border, Border control agents get on the bus and ask all the passengers about their status. That is illegal, since the bus is domestic only.
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Posted by: L.A.Lynn
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