COMMENTS: 85
Revealed: Secret Plan to Keep Iraq Under U.S. Control
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The terms of the impending deal, details of which have been leaked to The Independent, are likely to have an explosive political effect in Iraq. Iraqi officials fear that the accord, under which US troops would occupy permanent bases, conduct military operations, arrest Iraqis and enjoy immunity from Iraqi law, will destabilize Iraq's position in the Middle East and lay the basis for unending conflict in their country.
But the accord also threatens to provoke a political crisis in the U.S. President Bush wants to push it through by the end of next month so he can declare a military victory and claim his 2003 invasion has been vindicated. But by perpetuating the U.S. presence in Iraq, the long-term settlement would undercut pledges by the Democratic presidential nominee, Barack Obama, to withdraw U.S. troops if he is elected president in November.
The timing of the agreement would also boost the Republican candidate, John McCain, who has claimed the United States is on the verge of victory in Iraq -- a victory that he says Obama would throw away by a premature military withdrawal.
America currently has 151,000 troops in Iraq and, even after projected withdrawals next month, troop levels will stand at more than 142,000 - 10 000 more than when the military "surge" began in January 2007. Under the terms of the new treaty, the Americans would retain the long-term use of more than 50 bases in Iraq. American negotiators are also demanding immunity from Iraqi law for U.S. troops and contractors, and a free hand to carry out arrests and conduct military activities in Iraq without consulting the Baghdad government.
The precise nature of the American demands has been kept secret until now. The leaks are certain to generate an angry backlash in Iraq. "It is a terrible breach of our sovereignty," said one Iraqi politician, adding that if the security deal was signed it would delegitimize the government in Baghdad which will be seen as an American pawn.
The U.S. has repeatedly denied it wants permanent bases in Iraq but one Iraqi source said: "This is just a tactical subterfuge." Washington also wants control of Iraqi airspace below 29,000 ft and the right to pursue its "war on terror" in Iraq, giving it the authority to arrest anybody it wants and to launch military campaigns without consultation.
Bush is determined to force the Iraqi government to sign the so-called "strategic alliance" without modifications, by the end of next month. But it is already being condemned by the Iranians and many Arabs as a continuing American attempt to dominate the region. Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, the powerful and usually moderate Iranian leader, said yesterday that such a deal would create "a permanent occupation". He added: "The essence of this agreement is to turn the Iraqis into slaves of the Americans."
Iraq's Prime Minister, Nouri al-Maliki, is believed to be personally opposed to the terms of the new pact but feels his coalition government cannot stay in power without U.S. backing.
The deal also risks exacerbating the proxy war being fought between Iran and the United States over who should be more influential in Iraq.
Although Iraqi ministers have said they will reject any agreement limiting Iraqi sovereignty, political observers in Baghdad suspect they will sign in the end and simply want to establish their credentials as defenders of Iraqi independence by a show of defiance now. The one Iraqi with the authority to stop deal is the majority Shia spiritual leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. In 2003, he forced the U.S. to agree to a referendum on the new Iraqi constitution and the election of a parliament. But he is said to believe that loss of US support would drastically weaken the Iraqi Shia, who won a majority in parliament in elections in 2005.
The U.S. is adamantly against the new security agreement being put to a referendum in Iraq, suspecting that it would be voted down. The influential Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr has called on his followers to demonstrate every Friday against the impending agreement on the grounds that it compromises Iraqi independence.
The Iraqi government wants to delay the actual signing of the agreement but the office of Vice President Dick Cheney has been trying to force it through. The U.S. ambassador in Baghdad, Ryan Crocker, has spent weeks trying to secure the accord.
The signature of a security agreement, and a parallel deal providing a legal basis for keeping U.S. troops in Iraq, is unlikely to be accepted by most Iraqis. But the Kurds, who make up a fifth of the population, will probably favor a continuing American presence, as will Sunni Arab political leaders who want U.S. forces to dilute the power of the Shia. The Sunni Arab community, which has broadly supported a guerrilla war against U.S. occupation, is likely to be split.
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Jun 6, 2008 2:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Eventually the United States will have to withdraw from Iraq. Why not get out while the getting is bad (as opposed to catastrophic)? Why not cut our losses? A permanent military presence in Iraq??? They're joking, right?
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Hideous Clinton
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» RE: Why Bother?
Posted by: loxias
» RE: Why Bother?
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Why Bother?
Posted by: swamiji
» NO NO NO!!! You guys are missing the most important part!!
Posted by: Fog
» RE: NO NO NO!!! You guys are missing the most important part!!
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: NO NO NO!!! You guys are missing the most important part!!
Posted by: TJAlex
» RE: YES YES YES!!! the most important part!!
Posted by: editnetwork
» RE: YES YES YES!!! the most important part!!
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: NO NO NO!!! You guys are missing the most important part!!
Posted by: Ellie M.
» "Why Bother?" That's Very Naive Thinking - (See Fog's Post) ...
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» Know what a Satrap is?
Posted by: citizenjoe
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Posted by: werewolf on Jun 6, 2008 3:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The government that is installed in Iraq is one under the auspices of the occupying military force that occupied it in an illegal war. Accordingly, the Government of Iraq is illegal as well. So why should we expect the Iraqi governmnet to be patriotic? Any actions taken by the present Iraqi government favoring a foreign occupying force will be seen as unpatriotic and traitorous. Period!
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» RE: Who is a patriot?
Posted by: swamiji
» RE: Who is a patriot?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» So Nazi Germany and Militaristic Japan Governments should not have been overthrown?
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: Libertarian Paternalist...
Posted by: Quannah
» Barack Obama is a Libertarian Paternalist
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: Barack Obama is a Libertarian Paternalist
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Barack Obama is a Libertarian Paternalist
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: So Nazi Germany and Militaristic Japan Governments should not have been overthrown?
Posted by: werewolf
» Godwin
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Godwin
Posted by: Hans B
» RE: So Nazi Germany and Militaristic Japan Governments should not have been overthrown?
Posted by: altnet307
» NO NO NO!!! You guys are missing the most important part!!
Posted by: Fog
» RE: seems to me...
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: seems to me...
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: werewolf on Jun 6, 2008 4:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ceratinly not any member of an illegal Government installed by an occupation force after toppling a legal Government through an ILLEGAL war.
In the eyes of a true Iraqi patriot the deal struck by the current illegal Iraqi government need not be honored by him or her. He or she is justified to tear it apart. Period
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» RE: In other Words
Posted by: editnetwork
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Posted by: akai ringo on Jun 6, 2008 4:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Thinking of Greg Palast's predictions
Posted by: Jbuuty
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Posted by: Jbuuty on Jun 6, 2008 4:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Britain and France left their colonial possession decades ago with little remaining effects. Bush's action have been and continue to be reprehensible, but they are not necessarily permanent unless we allow them to be.
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» RE: Permanent?
Posted by: everton9
» RE: Permanent?
Posted by: jstepp590
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Posted by: larazzafilms on Jun 6, 2008 4:59 AM
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Posted by: desidid on Jun 6, 2008 5:09 AM
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Posted by: US Citizen on Jun 6, 2008 5:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Post Colonial America
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Post Colonial America
Posted by: US Citizen
» RE: Post Colonial America
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: non-person on Jun 6, 2008 5:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...And this bold stating of the geopolitical facts of life strikes the modern reader with the force of revelation - because there is in our own time an absolute taboo among the corporate news media and the political class on mentioning anything to do with the strategic and economic reasons for war."
As witnessed just over a year ago, I’m listening to the today program on radio 4 and there was this little phrase that kept repeating on the half hour:, every half hour:
“The G8 has today endorsed an American plan to bring democracy to the Middle East.”
The level of naivety necessary before you can talk about “an American plan to bring democracy to the Middle East” - you will not find that level of naivety anywhere outside of 1970s porno films.
“Gee mister, the time machine only works if I take off all my clothes?”
And what country were they discussing that morning? Why Iran, of course, which until 1953 was a secular democracy.
1951: Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh elected prime minister by a landslide majority on a mandate of nationalizing the Anglo-Persian oil company, now know as record profit posting BP - what happens next?
The British Foreign Office recommend a coup d’etat. Churchill puts up a million and a half dollars to finance the coup, Eisenhower agrees to match this with a million dollars on the sole proviso that Theodore Roosvelt’s grandson and CIA Middle East station chief in Tehran, Kermit Roosevelt, will be point man for the coup. This is agreed on, the money is transferred, and Kermit Roosvelt’s first action is to spring General Fazlollah Zahedi from jail, where he is languishing on account of being a Nazi collaborator. This is the man that Kermit Roosevelt has chosen to lead the military part of the coup. . .
...Kermit Roosevelt installs Shah Rehva Palavi as absolute dictator of Iran, head of the notorious SAVAK secret police, which in 1976 Amnesty described as responsible for the worst human rights atrocities on Planet Earth.
This was Britain and America bringing democracy to the Middle East in 1953.
“Yes, but that was then! This is now! Now there’s an American plan, endorsed by the G8 I might add, to bring democracy to the Middle East, generally, not just in Iran, but in Iraq.”
Where the United States is building 14 permanent U.S. military bases on Iraqi soil.
What is so profound is the corporate news media’s acquired naivety, the learnt ability not to see or hear the uncomfortable fact...
-end-
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/ maps/middle_east_and_asia /iraq_oilfields_1992.jpg
That map doesn't show the large new discoveries in the western Anbar province: http://www.nytimes.com /2007/02/19/world/middleeast/ 19oilfields.html
Why doesn't Mr Cockburn draw the obvious connection between the permanent military bases and economic control of Iraqi oil production? Maybe he should call these guys up, or read what they have to say: General Union of Oil Employees in Basra (They aren't shy about pointing out the real U.S. goal in Iraq.)
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Posted by: loxias on Jun 6, 2008 5:51 AM
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» Sign what? "It's just a gawd damn piece of paper". GWB
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: RedFoxOne on Jun 6, 2008 6:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JT
Ultimate Anonymity
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» RE: u Kidding me?
Posted by: the man with a dog
» RE: u Kidding me?
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 6, 2008 6:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
P.S.: FDR started this occupation mess in Saudi Arabia as well or was it Truman and the GOP only continued it. Can you say RALPH NADER ?
VOTENADER.ORG
PEACE
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» Nader equals wasted vote
Posted by: realveive
» RE: Nader equals wasted vote
Posted by: TJAlex
» RE: Nothing secret about that. The US is already in occupation for oil and desperately failing.
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: annejohnson on Jun 6, 2008 6:54 AM
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Posted by: Quasar on Jun 6, 2008 7:09 AM
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jun 6, 2008 7:50 AM
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jun 6, 2008 8:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Iraq will go back to her people when America gets her Freedom and Liberty back,basically never. Such is governance by the greedy. They have a toehold in Iraq,a jackboot on American citizen's throats and they are'nt stopping until we get Iran.
This bullshit will continue as long a good people continue to do nothing in the face of corrupt leadership. I'm in a wheelchair but I'm still willing to face the enemy down and I have many times and I will continue to do so.
This government and the corperate entities that run it are a bucket of shit that needs flushing. It's time to upset the applecart,they're all rotten anyway.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez '08
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Posted by: Quannah on Jun 6, 2008 9:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Iraqi Parliament doesn't like this deal. Neither does Maliki or any faction in Iraq. I hope they find the courage to stand up to these goons and say NO.
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» RE: The Bush Administration's rhetoric says...
Posted by: TJAlex
» RE: The Bush Administration's rhetoric says...
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: fanny666 on Jun 6, 2008 9:54 AM
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Video interview of Patrick Cockburn
Part one
Part two
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Posted by: US Citizen on Jun 6, 2008 10:00 AM
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» RE: Slavery, not Colonialism
Posted by: Turiye
» RE: Slavery, not Colonialism
Posted by: werewolf
» RE: Slavery, not Colonialism, as well as needless explainations by a wise ass...
Posted by: Turiye
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Posted by: praedor on Jun 6, 2008 10:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Literally, there is no force of law to back up anything Bush signs off on with regards to Iraq. It seems to me that there are fantacists out there (mostly neocons and their lovers in the Democrapic party) who hope, by repeating something, ie, "If Bush gets the agreement then the next President's hands are tied", that is clearly NOT true will become true by magic. IF Bush gets his unconstitutional and NON-binding agreement to permanently occupy Iraq AND Obama sticks to it, then that is grounds to impeach Obama!
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Posted by: grkjr on Jun 6, 2008 10:43 AM
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Posted by: BobNoxious on Jun 6, 2008 11:58 AM
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Posted by: Fog on Jun 6, 2008 12:25 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pastor and ex-oil executive whistleblower Lindsey Williams and the Energy Non-Crisis
Former assassin John Perkins tells all
This isn't about Bush, or Obama, this is about the oil families and the banking families asserting their control. Who the current or future President is immaterial. The occupation of Iraq is a permanent plan by the people pulling the puppet strings behind the scenes. You guys need to expand your awareness!
Iraq is sitting on oil. The oil families have determined that oil is to be the commodity of choice to control nations. The oil families played the Saudis for suckers; but well paid suckers. The Saudis 40 years ago were nomads. When the oil families and the banking families negotiated the Saudi future in oil, they made the Saudis move their oil profits into US banks, which then leveraged the vast sums of money up to 26 times thanks to the fractional reserve banking system the banks gave themselves. While the Saudis were making billions the banks were making even more virtually effortlessly. THIS is the prime motivation for oil control; the banks want the DEPOSITS! With such huge liquid assets, political power can be bought world wide, and enforced with huge privately funded militaries as we're witnessing today. And how do you control where the oil profits get parked? Bribing the oil owners or killing them and taking over their country.
The Saudis played along out of sheer naivete. They had no idea about international banking treachery. The banking families and the oil families built up the Saudis, but for a large price.
Like Hugo Chavez in Venszuela, Saddam was too independent and wouldn't agree to the same deal the Saudis did, so they eliminated Saddam and are currently solidifying their power over the oil fields. (Listen to Chavez's rhetoric for parallels) It's all happening right in front of your eyes, but you're still talking petty politics of a rigged system!
All this talk about waiting for the dems to pull the troops out is dangerously naive, and this leaked "F-U" to the Iraqis is just more proof of unfettered power asserting itself. Everyone is looking at Iraq incredulously, blaming Bush for being an aggressor and a liar, but no one is asking WHY he's SOOOOOO singleminded and bullheaded. To avenge Daddy? Ha! The obvious answer is that he's merely a figurehead for the true power players and their agenda. He's too stupid and insignificant to warrant sufficient loyalty to pull this of on his own. Why can't people see that and pursue the true actors?
If you want to understand the MOTIVATIONS and the HISTORICAL PRECEDENT behind the blatant illegal and immoral work being done under the fake "terrorism" banner, you must watch this video:
Pastor and ex-oil executive whistleblower Lindsey Williams and the Energy Non-Crisis
as well as familiarize yourself with the tactics employed by men like
former assassin John Perkins
If all you're doing is reading Alternet, that's not enough.
And Alternet, if you're not investigating the TRUE power structure and just trying to influence votes in a rigged system, YOU'RE not doing enough!
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» John Perkins was not a REAL "assassin"
Posted by: fanny666
» RE: John Perkins was not a REAL "assassin"
Posted by: werewolf
» RE: NO NO NO!!! STOP SPAMMING US!!!
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: ibemee on Jun 6, 2008 1:12 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...but not many people could be bothered to hear us. If anyone is seriously considering writing a boof of FULLY RESEARCHED facts concerning the plans for Iraq'a future - go to VAIW and dive in to the archives!
********************************
Domestically, here's a clue for you, too:
The Bush administration (and especially the california congressmen) have been attempting to open the government owned lands --- that means OUR State Parks, in particular --- as well as the California Pacific seashore to GIVE the Oil Companies drilling rights.
Of course, the Public has been absolutely opposed to the rape & ruin of our public lands, BUT--- congressmen like wally-the-weasel-herger have observed that quote: "IF the cost of gas should reach $5 a gallon, the Public would clamor for domestic drilling."
----NOW you are suddenly seeing little commercials creeping onto your TV screen about how we have more than enough available domestically, and the time has come to pursue it......
Duh. Who can't figure out why the price of gas is so outragous? Who can't figure out why the govmt doesn't do something about the tremendous profits being made by the Oil Companies? Who can't see that every American Citizen is screwed and tattooed simply for the shameful profit of energy companies and the power and 'favors' bestowed upon disreputable politicians in exchange for making those profits possible?
...and they dare to label themselves "patriotic"
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» RE: "secret"???? We told ya so - or TRIED to; It is the IVAW....
Posted by: Turiye
» NO!! It is NOT the IVAW.... check the facts before you 'correct' me!!
Posted by: ibemee
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Posted by: ldyradr on Jun 6, 2008 2:02 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Turiye on Jun 6, 2008 2:22 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: egardless of what is glaringly apparent....
Posted by: Turiye
» RE: egardless of what is glaringly apparent....
Posted by: werewolf
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Posted by: badkitty on Jun 6, 2008 3:24 PM
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Posted by: Jeanne on Jun 6, 2008 5:29 PM
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Posted by: siamdave on Jun 6, 2008 9:05 PM
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Posted by: zorba1 on Jun 6, 2008 9:18 PM
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My ancestors will be flipping in their graves.
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Posted by: citizenjoe on Jun 7, 2008 5:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Satrap (Persian: ساتراپ) was the name given to the governors of the provinces of ancient Median and Persian empires, including the Achaemenid Empire and in several of their heirs, such as the Sassanid Empire and the Hellenistic empires.
Look, Bush means to reduce Iraq to a political form well known in the history of Western Asia: the province of an empire. In the empires of Persia (Darius, Xerxes) the provinces were called Satraps. Bush means to reduce Iraq to an American satrap. He has always meant to destroy Iraq as an autonomous and independent state. His talk of the "young democracy of Iraq" is an outrageous lie.His policy is now transparent as are the lies he tells about it. His "transfer of sovereignty to the Iraqi government" was a charade and an international embarrassment. "Shock and Awe" was "blitzkrieg" and its goal is "lebensraum", a prostrate territory whose resources are stripped at will by the invader. These are Nazi terms and Bush's policies are Nazi policies. These are facts. Draw from them your own conclusions.-- Joe
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Posted by: Forrest on Jun 7, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
international_security/news/fr/fr030416_1_n.shtml
"Oil from Iraq : An Israeli pipedream?"
16 April 2003
"Israel stands to benefit greatly from the US led war on Iraq, primarily by getting rid of an implacable foe in President Saddam Hussein and the threat from the weapons of mass destruction he was alleged to possess. But it seems the Israelis have other things in mind.
An intriguing pointer to one potentially significant benefit was a report by Haaretz on 31 March that minister for national infrastructures Joseph Paritzky was considering the possibility of reopening the long-defunct oil pipeline from Mosul to the Mediterranean port of Haifa. With Israel lacking energy resources of its own and depending on highly expensive oil from Russia, reopening the pipeline would transform its economy.
To resume supplies from Mosul to Haifa would require the approval of whatever Iraqi government emerges and presumably the Jordanian government, through whose territory it would be likely to run. Paritzky's ministry was reported to have said on 9 April that it would hold discussions with Jordanian authorities on resuming oil supplies from Mosul, with one source saying the Jordanians were "optimistic". Jordan, aware of the deep political sensitivities involved, immediately denied there were any such talks.
Paritzky said he was certain the USA would respond favourably to the idea of resurrecting the pipeline. Indeed, according to Western diplomatic sources in the region, the USA has discussed this with Iraqi opposition groups.
It is understood from diplomatic sources that the Bush administration has said it will not support lifting UN sanctions on Iraq unless Saddam's successors agree to supply Israel with oil.
All of this lends weight to the theory that Bush's war is part of a masterplan to reshape the Middle East to serve Israel's interests. Haaretz quoted Paritzky as saying that the pipeline project is economically justifiable because it would dramatically reduce Israel's energy bill.
US efforts to get Iraqi oil to Israel are not surprising. Under a 1975 Memorandum of Understanding (MoU), the US guaranteed all Israel's oil needs in the event of a crisis. The MoU, which has been quietly renewed every five years, also committed the USA to construct and stock a supplementary strategic reserve for Israel, equivalent to some US$3bn in 2002. Special legislation was enacted to exempt Israel from restrictions on oil exports from the USA.
Moreover, the USA agreed to divert oil from its home market, even if that entailed domestic shortages, and guaranteed delivery of the promised oil in its own tankers if commercial shippers were unwilling or not available to carry the crude to Israel. All of this adds up to a potentially massive financial commitment.
The USA has another reason for supporting Paritzky's project: a land route for Iraqi oil direct to the Mediterranean would lessen US dependence on Gulf oil supplies. Direct access to the world's second-largest oil reserves (with the possibility of expansion through so-far untapped deposits) is an important strategic objective."
477 of 983 words
End of non-subscriber extract
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» RE: Oil from Iraq : An Israeli pipedream? (quote from Jane's)
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: williameon on Jun 8, 2008 5:15 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Divide and conquer.
The Terrorist and the
Coward
Tortures the weak
Can the Faux Media change it's spots?
Becoming a Humanitarian and good citizen?
Anything is possible!
Surely,
Dead Eye and The Chump proved that.
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Posted by: ushegemony on Jun 11, 2008 6:52 AM
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Jun 6, 2008 2:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Eventually the United States will have to withdraw from Iraq. Why not get out while the getting is bad (as opposed to catastrophic)? Why not cut our losses? A permanent military presence in Iraq??? They're joking, right?
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Hideous Clinton
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» RE: Why Bother?
Posted by: loxias
» RE: Why Bother?
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Why Bother?
Posted by: swamiji
» NO NO NO!!! You guys are missing the most important part!!
Posted by: Fog
» RE: NO NO NO!!! You guys are missing the most important part!!
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: NO NO NO!!! You guys are missing the most important part!!
Posted by: TJAlex
» RE: YES YES YES!!! the most important part!!
Posted by: editnetwork
» RE: YES YES YES!!! the most important part!!
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: NO NO NO!!! You guys are missing the most important part!!
Posted by: Ellie M.
» "Why Bother?" That's Very Naive Thinking - (See Fog's Post) ...
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» Know what a Satrap is?
Posted by: citizenjoe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: werewolf on Jun 6, 2008 3:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The government that is installed in Iraq is one under the auspices of the occupying military force that occupied it in an illegal war. Accordingly, the Government of Iraq is illegal as well. So why should we expect the Iraqi governmnet to be patriotic? Any actions taken by the present Iraqi government favoring a foreign occupying force will be seen as unpatriotic and traitorous. Period!
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» RE: Who is a patriot?
Posted by: swamiji
» RE: Who is a patriot?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» So Nazi Germany and Militaristic Japan Governments should not have been overthrown?
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: Libertarian Paternalist...
Posted by: Quannah
» Barack Obama is a Libertarian Paternalist
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: Barack Obama is a Libertarian Paternalist
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Barack Obama is a Libertarian Paternalist
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: So Nazi Germany and Militaristic Japan Governments should not have been overthrown?
Posted by: werewolf
» Godwin
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Godwin
Posted by: Hans B
» RE: So Nazi Germany and Militaristic Japan Governments should not have been overthrown?
Posted by: altnet307
» NO NO NO!!! You guys are missing the most important part!!
Posted by: Fog
» RE: seems to me...
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: seems to me...
Posted by: richholland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: werewolf on Jun 6, 2008 4:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ceratinly not any member of an illegal Government installed by an occupation force after toppling a legal Government through an ILLEGAL war.
In the eyes of a true Iraqi patriot the deal struck by the current illegal Iraqi government need not be honored by him or her. He or she is justified to tear it apart. Period
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» RE: In other Words
Posted by: editnetwork
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Posted by: akai ringo on Jun 6, 2008 4:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Thinking of Greg Palast's predictions
Posted by: Jbuuty
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Posted by: Jbuuty on Jun 6, 2008 4:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Britain and France left their colonial possession decades ago with little remaining effects. Bush's action have been and continue to be reprehensible, but they are not necessarily permanent unless we allow them to be.
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» RE: Permanent?
Posted by: everton9
» RE: Permanent?
Posted by: jstepp590
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Posted by: larazzafilms on Jun 6, 2008 4:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: desidid on Jun 6, 2008 5:09 AM
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Posted by: US Citizen on Jun 6, 2008 5:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Post Colonial America
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Post Colonial America
Posted by: US Citizen
» RE: Post Colonial America
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: non-person on Jun 6, 2008 5:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...And this bold stating of the geopolitical facts of life strikes the modern reader with the force of revelation - because there is in our own time an absolute taboo among the corporate news media and the political class on mentioning anything to do with the strategic and economic reasons for war."
As witnessed just over a year ago, I’m listening to the today program on radio 4 and there was this little phrase that kept repeating on the half hour:, every half hour:
“The G8 has today endorsed an American plan to bring democracy to the Middle East.”
The level of naivety necessary before you can talk about “an American plan to bring democracy to the Middle East” - you will not find that level of naivety anywhere outside of 1970s porno films.
“Gee mister, the time machine only works if I take off all my clothes?”
And what country were they discussing that morning? Why Iran, of course, which until 1953 was a secular democracy.
1951: Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh elected prime minister by a landslide majority on a mandate of nationalizing the Anglo-Persian oil company, now know as record profit posting BP - what happens next?
The British Foreign Office recommend a coup d’etat. Churchill puts up a million and a half dollars to finance the coup, Eisenhower agrees to match this with a million dollars on the sole proviso that Theodore Roosvelt’s grandson and CIA Middle East station chief in Tehran, Kermit Roosevelt, will be point man for the coup. This is agreed on, the money is transferred, and Kermit Roosvelt’s first action is to spring General Fazlollah Zahedi from jail, where he is languishing on account of being a Nazi collaborator. This is the man that Kermit Roosevelt has chosen to lead the military part of the coup. . .
...Kermit Roosevelt installs Shah Rehva Palavi as absolute dictator of Iran, head of the notorious SAVAK secret police, which in 1976 Amnesty described as responsible for the worst human rights atrocities on Planet Earth.
This was Britain and America bringing democracy to the Middle East in 1953.
“Yes, but that was then! This is now! Now there’s an American plan, endorsed by the G8 I might add, to bring democracy to the Middle East, generally, not just in Iran, but in Iraq.”
Where the United States is building 14 permanent U.S. military bases on Iraqi soil.
What is so profound is the corporate news media’s acquired naivety, the learnt ability not to see or hear the uncomfortable fact...
-end-
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/ maps/middle_east_and_asia /iraq_oilfields_1992.jpg
That map doesn't show the large new discoveries in the western Anbar province: http://www.nytimes.com /2007/02/19/world/middleeast/ 19oilfields.html
Why doesn't Mr Cockburn draw the obvious connection between the permanent military bases and economic control of Iraqi oil production? Maybe he should call these guys up, or read what they have to say: General Union of Oil Employees in Basra (They aren't shy about pointing out the real U.S. goal in Iraq.)
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Posted by: loxias on Jun 6, 2008 5:51 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Sign what? "It's just a gawd damn piece of paper". GWB
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: RedFoxOne on Jun 6, 2008 6:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JT
Ultimate Anonymity
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» RE: u Kidding me?
Posted by: the man with a dog
» RE: u Kidding me?
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 6, 2008 6:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
P.S.: FDR started this occupation mess in Saudi Arabia as well or was it Truman and the GOP only continued it. Can you say RALPH NADER ?
VOTENADER.ORG
PEACE
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» Nader equals wasted vote
Posted by: realveive
» RE: Nader equals wasted vote
Posted by: TJAlex
» RE: Nothing secret about that. The US is already in occupation for oil and desperately failing.
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: annejohnson on Jun 6, 2008 6:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Quasar on Jun 6, 2008 7:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jun 6, 2008 7:50 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jun 6, 2008 8:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Iraq will go back to her people when America gets her Freedom and Liberty back,basically never. Such is governance by the greedy. They have a toehold in Iraq,a jackboot on American citizen's throats and they are'nt stopping until we get Iran.
This bullshit will continue as long a good people continue to do nothing in the face of corrupt leadership. I'm in a wheelchair but I'm still willing to face the enemy down and I have many times and I will continue to do so.
This government and the corperate entities that run it are a bucket of shit that needs flushing. It's time to upset the applecart,they're all rotten anyway.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez '08
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Posted by: Quannah on Jun 6, 2008 9:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Iraqi Parliament doesn't like this deal. Neither does Maliki or any faction in Iraq. I hope they find the courage to stand up to these goons and say NO.
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» RE: The Bush Administration's rhetoric says...
Posted by: TJAlex
» RE: The Bush Administration's rhetoric says...
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: fanny666 on Jun 6, 2008 9:54 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Video interview of Patrick Cockburn
Part one
Part two
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Posted by: US Citizen on Jun 6, 2008 10:00 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Slavery, not Colonialism
Posted by: Turiye
» RE: Slavery, not Colonialism
Posted by: werewolf
» RE: Slavery, not Colonialism, as well as needless explainations by a wise ass...
Posted by: Turiye
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Posted by: praedor on Jun 6, 2008 10:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Literally, there is no force of law to back up anything Bush signs off on with regards to Iraq. It seems to me that there are fantacists out there (mostly neocons and their lovers in the Democrapic party) who hope, by repeating something, ie, "If Bush gets the agreement then the next President's hands are tied", that is clearly NOT true will become true by magic. IF Bush gets his unconstitutional and NON-binding agreement to permanently occupy Iraq AND Obama sticks to it, then that is grounds to impeach Obama!
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Posted by: grkjr on Jun 6, 2008 10:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BobNoxious on Jun 6, 2008 11:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Fog on Jun 6, 2008 12:25 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pastor and ex-oil executive whistleblower Lindsey Williams and the Energy Non-Crisis
Former assassin John Perkins tells all
This isn't about Bush, or Obama, this is about the oil families and the banking families asserting their control. Who the current or future President is immaterial. The occupation of Iraq is a permanent plan by the people pulling the puppet strings behind the scenes. You guys need to expand your awareness!
Iraq is sitting on oil. The oil families have determined that oil is to be the commodity of choice to control nations. The oil families played the Saudis for suckers; but well paid suckers. The Saudis 40 years ago were nomads. When the oil families and the banking families negotiated the Saudi future in oil, they made the Saudis move their oil profits into US banks, which then leveraged the vast sums of money up to 26 times thanks to the fractional reserve banking system the banks gave themselves. While the Saudis were making billions the banks were making even more virtually effortlessly. THIS is the prime motivation for oil control; the banks want the DEPOSITS! With such huge liquid assets, political power can be bought world wide, and enforced with huge privately funded militaries as we're witnessing today. And how do you control where the oil profits get parked? Bribing the oil owners or killing them and taking over their country.
The Saudis played along out of sheer naivete. They had no idea about international banking treachery. The banking families and the oil families built up the Saudis, but for a large price.
Like Hugo Chavez in Venszuela, Saddam was too independent and wouldn't agree to the same deal the Saudis did, so they eliminated Saddam and are currently solidifying their power over the oil fields. (Listen to Chavez's rhetoric for parallels) It's all happening right in front of your eyes, but you're still talking petty politics of a rigged system!
All this talk about waiting for the dems to pull the troops out is dangerously naive, and this leaked "F-U" to the Iraqis is just more proof of unfettered power asserting itself. Everyone is looking at Iraq incredulously, blaming Bush for being an aggressor and a liar, but no one is asking WHY he's SOOOOOO singleminded and bullheaded. To avenge Daddy? Ha! The obvious answer is that he's merely a figurehead for the true power players and their agenda. He's too stupid and insignificant to warrant sufficient loyalty to pull this of on his own. Why can't people see that and pursue the true actors?
If you want to understand the MOTIVATIONS and the HISTORICAL PRECEDENT behind the blatant illegal and immoral work being done under the fake "terrorism" banner, you must watch this video:
Pastor and ex-oil executive whistleblower Lindsey Williams and the Energy Non-Crisis
as well as familiarize yourself with the tactics employed by men like
former assassin John Perkins
If all you're doing is reading Alternet, that's not enough.
And Alternet, if you're not investigating the TRUE power structure and just trying to influence votes in a rigged system, YOU'RE not doing enough!
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» John Perkins was not a REAL "assassin"
Posted by: fanny666
» RE: John Perkins was not a REAL "assassin"
Posted by: werewolf
» RE: NO NO NO!!! STOP SPAMMING US!!!
Posted by: Quannah
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ibemee on Jun 6, 2008 1:12 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...but not many people could be bothered to hear us. If anyone is seriously considering writing a boof of FULLY RESEARCHED facts concerning the plans for Iraq'a future - go to VAIW and dive in to the archives!
********************************
Domestically, here's a clue for you, too:
The Bush administration (and especially the california congressmen) have been attempting to open the government owned lands --- that means OUR State Parks, in particular --- as well as the California Pacific seashore to GIVE the Oil Companies drilling rights.
Of course, the Public has been absolutely opposed to the rape & ruin of our public lands, BUT--- congressmen like wally-the-weasel-herger have observed that quote: "IF the cost of gas should reach $5 a gallon, the Public would clamor for domestic drilling."
----NOW you are suddenly seeing little commercials creeping onto your TV screen about how we have more than enough available domestically, and the time has come to pursue it......
Duh. Who can't figure out why the price of gas is so outragous? Who can't figure out why the govmt doesn't do something about the tremendous profits being made by the Oil Companies? Who can't see that every American Citizen is screwed and tattooed simply for the shameful profit of energy companies and the power and 'favors' bestowed upon disreputable politicians in exchange for making those profits possible?
...and they dare to label themselves "patriotic"
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» RE: "secret"???? We told ya so - or TRIED to; It is the IVAW....
Posted by: Turiye
» NO!! It is NOT the IVAW.... check the facts before you 'correct' me!!
Posted by: ibemee
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Posted by: ldyradr on Jun 6, 2008 2:02 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Turiye on Jun 6, 2008 2:22 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: egardless of what is glaringly apparent....
Posted by: Turiye
» RE: egardless of what is glaringly apparent....
Posted by: werewolf
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Posted by: badkitty on Jun 6, 2008 3:24 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Jeanne on Jun 6, 2008 5:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: siamdave on Jun 6, 2008 9:05 PM
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Posted by: zorba1 on Jun 6, 2008 9:18 PM
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My ancestors will be flipping in their graves.
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Posted by: citizenjoe on Jun 7, 2008 5:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Satrap (Persian: ساتراپ) was the name given to the governors of the provinces of ancient Median and Persian empires, including the Achaemenid Empire and in several of their heirs, such as the Sassanid Empire and the Hellenistic empires.
Look, Bush means to reduce Iraq to a political form well known in the history of Western Asia: the province of an empire. In the empires of Persia (Darius, Xerxes) the provinces were called Satraps. Bush means to reduce Iraq to an American satrap. He has always meant to destroy Iraq as an autonomous and independent state. His talk of the "young democracy of Iraq" is an outrageous lie.His policy is now transparent as are the lies he tells about it. His "transfer of sovereignty to the Iraqi government" was a charade and an international embarrassment. "Shock and Awe" was "blitzkrieg" and its goal is "lebensraum", a prostrate territory whose resources are stripped at will by the invader. These are Nazi terms and Bush's policies are Nazi policies. These are facts. Draw from them your own conclusions.-- Joe
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Posted by: Forrest on Jun 7, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
international_security/news/fr/fr030416_1_n.shtml
"Oil from Iraq : An Israeli pipedream?"
16 April 2003
"Israel stands to benefit greatly from the US led war on Iraq, primarily by getting rid of an implacable foe in President Saddam Hussein and the threat from the weapons of mass destruction he was alleged to possess. But it seems the Israelis have other things in mind.
An intriguing pointer to one potentially significant benefit was a report by Haaretz on 31 March that minister for national infrastructures Joseph Paritzky was considering the possibility of reopening the long-defunct oil pipeline from Mosul to the Mediterranean port of Haifa. With Israel lacking energy resources of its own and depending on highly expensive oil from Russia, reopening the pipeline would transform its economy.
To resume supplies from Mosul to Haifa would require the approval of whatever Iraqi government emerges and presumably the Jordanian government, through whose territory it would be likely to run. Paritzky's ministry was reported to have said on 9 April that it would hold discussions with Jordanian authorities on resuming oil supplies from Mosul, with one source saying the Jordanians were "optimistic". Jordan, aware of the deep political sensitivities involved, immediately denied there were any such talks.
Paritzky said he was certain the USA would respond favourably to the idea of resurrecting the pipeline. Indeed, according to Western diplomatic sources in the region, the USA has discussed this with Iraqi opposition groups.
It is understood from diplomatic sources that the Bush administration has said it will not support lifting UN sanctions on Iraq unless Saddam's successors agree to supply Israel with oil.
All of this lends weight to the theory that Bush's war is part of a masterplan to reshape the Middle East to serve Israel's interests. Haaretz quoted Paritzky as saying that the pipeline project is economically justifiable because it would dramatically reduce Israel's energy bill.
US efforts to get Iraqi oil to Israel are not surprising. Under a 1975 Memorandum of Understanding (MoU), the US guaranteed all Israel's oil needs in the event of a crisis. The MoU, which has been quietly renewed every five years, also committed the USA to construct and stock a supplementary strategic reserve for Israel, equivalent to some US$3bn in 2002. Special legislation was enacted to exempt Israel from restrictions on oil exports from the USA.
Moreover, the USA agreed to divert oil from its home market, even if that entailed domestic shortages, and guaranteed delivery of the promised oil in its own tankers if commercial shippers were unwilling or not available to carry the crude to Israel. All of this adds up to a potentially massive financial commitment.
The USA has another reason for supporting Paritzky's project: a land route for Iraqi oil direct to the Mediterranean would lessen US dependence on Gulf oil supplies. Direct access to the world's second-largest oil reserves (with the possibility of expansion through so-far untapped deposits) is an important strategic objective."
477 of 983 words
End of non-subscriber extract
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» RE: Oil from Iraq : An Israeli pipedream? (quote from Jane's)
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: williameon on Jun 8, 2008 5:15 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Divide and conquer.
The Terrorist and the
Coward
Tortures the weak
Can the Faux Media change it's spots?
Becoming a Humanitarian and good citizen?
Anything is possible!
Surely,
Dead Eye and The Chump proved that.
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Posted by: ushegemony on Jun 11, 2008 6:52 AM
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Vancouver's Games Will Be the Gayest Olympics Ever
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