As a veteran, not of combat, but of the Cold War Army of the 1980's, I agree with this statement with but one qualification.

Recruiters are not volunteer positions for the most part. Most recruiters are assigned the position, out under quotas and could have their careers ended if they do not produce. Otherwise, these young men and women are under great pressure and most try to honestly do what they have been assigned and honestly present recruits with an accurate picture. Some probably do not, but that is not the case most or all of the time.

When you protest, as you have a legitimate right as a citizen to do, I ask that you do it respectfully. As most of us cannot know what an individual recruiter does in the discharge of their duty, we should give them, individually, the benefit of the doubt that they are honorable members of our armed forces assigned to do a difficult and sometimes conflicting job.

If one knows of a dishonest recruiter they should be reported to the recruiting command, your Congressional delegation and, if necessary, the media. A dishonest recruiter dishonors the service they are a member of, the honorable tradition of service to our nation, the nation at large, the millions who have served and the young men and women willing to serve.

All I ask is that you conduct your protests in an orderly and respectful, but firm, manner. The young man or woman serving as a recruiter may be doing an honest job and only following orders- even possibly ones they do not desire.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Recruitment of Tijuana, MX Youth by the U.S. Army Denounced

Young people in Tijuana, MX are secretly being recruited in local bars by the U.S. Army, says Fernando Suarez del Solar, founder of The Aztec Warriors for Peace Project aka GuerreroAzteca.org.

Army Recruiters dressed in civilian clothes buy young people beer then encourage them to enlist in exchange for citizenship.

Fernando, father of Jesús Alberto Suárez del Solar Navarro, who was killed in Iraq, would like to see Tijuana, MX become a sanctuary city for conscientious objectors to the war in Iraq.

Recruitment of Tijuana, MX Youth by the U.S. Army Denounced

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

stopping recruiting efforts will have nothing to do with the war effort.. The military will do what it can to make sure we have the staffing to meet requirements.. If that means reinstating the draft, they probably would do that.

Moving our elected politicians to do what we want them to do re protests, hitting their pockets etc, will have a greater effect. Boycott an industry that is supporting politicians that do not work to end the war!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I think most people that go into the military are fully aware that the purpose of the military is to fight and die in wars at the pleasure of the United States government.

There are a few factors in play that make them enlist anyway. First, young men typically have more testosterone than good sense. Second, they are willing to "roll the dice" and see what happens.

Sometimes when your choices in life are confined to working at Burger King or taking your chances in the military, you just take your chances. Most young people that join the military know they could end up dead or injured but they hope they won't and sign up anyway.

You can't stop recruitment as long as the wages, bonuses, and benefits are better than what anyone in the bottom 20% of our economic strata could hope to achieve in the civilian market before the age of 35.

However, as a veteran (OEF/OIF, non-combat) I will say that the military sucks whether you're getting shot at or not.

Still, the new G.I. Bill is going to be a huge recruitment boon for the military and I don't think they're going to have any problem finding warm bodies any time soon because of it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Memorial Day is dawning as I write this. Today we remember our American war dead. The rhetoric of our annual ceremonies expresses the pride we feel for those who offered the “last full measure of devotion,” but, in fact, we manage to keep a large portion of that pride for ourselves, as if our warriors’ willingness to sacrifice somehow makes noble our cause.

As Americans, not even in our prayers are we humble, for we see ourselves as the anointed ones, the rightful occupants of our pre-eminent “shining city on a hill.” We suppose that we have forged the most advanced civilization in history.

So how do we as a nation react when faced with a serious challenge? From our lofty perch, what is the most highly evolved response we manage to summon? As a result of engaging all of our intellect and experience and insight, what course of action do we choose to best serve our highest ideals and aspirations?

We send our children out into the streets to kill other people’s children.

Forgive me if I conclude that this is a day not to puff out our chests in national pride, but rather, a day to mournfully acknowledge our grotesque lack of imagination in sending our youth to war.

David L. Wilson

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The "No Child Left Behind" program, under the Bush administration, made it possible for recruiters to have a presence on campus, and to view student's personal records in order to target the interests of the students. This was not only "possible" but mandated under "No Child Left Behind" at risk of the penalty of the school's loss of governmental funding.

Parents were not explained the process beforehand, but the process required parents to send in "Opt Out" forms every semester for each student that had reached the age of 18. Otherwise, the student's were fair game for the recruiters. This also included severely disabled students. An "Opt Out" form is required every semester, and there is a small window of time in which to get it in. If it is not received, every single branch of the services is at liberty to contact the student by phone and mail to try to get them to join the service.

The recruiters are just doing their job. It is the Bush White House that has been responsible for this siege of our innocent students. They could not bring the draft back since it had been so unpopular in the Vietnam war, so they used every possible method of targeting the young and immature, and in keeping in existing soldiers in endlessly recurring tours of duty. Some of the results is that families have disintegrated under the strain, and soldiers have committed suicide at unprecedented rates.

While we face the horrors of war I want everyone to remember that it was the Bush adminstration's failed policies that brought us here.

There were never any Weapons of Mass Destruction. We had no right to invade and attack a sovereign country that had not attacked us, and based on what they might have or what they might think or do if they had the ability. Pre-emptive war is immoral and illegal.

War is always a last, and not a first, resort.

The Bush administration wanted to attack Iraq. There was no relation between Bin Laden and Saddam. There was no problem in Iraq with insurgency and terrorists until we occupied Iraq. We are less safe, thousands of brave soldiers have lost their lives unnecessarily, or are now forced to live with severe disabilities, and thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians have been displaced because of this preciptious, unwise, and badly managed war.

Scott McClellan has written an expose of the Bush administration, and confirmed what most of us have suspected or known all along.

Now we must bring our soldiers home. We must take better care of our veterans. We must be sure the get the best benefits when they get home. No other choice is acceptable. We must support the families. We must build America up again. And we must vote for change in November.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The tactics Kovic is suggesting would surely backfire, just as they did in the '60s when egotistical demonstrators managed to alienate a large portion of the population and thereby helped keep the Vietnam War going strong. In fact, these arrogant, loud-mouthed protestors -- perhaps more than any other factor -- helped get Richard Nixon elected in 1968, leading to five more years of U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

Confronting military recruiters is a waste of time and very, very counterproductive. The community IMMEDIATELY turns against the protesters and any confrontation gives pro-war jugheads an opportunity to thump their chests on local and national television.

Contrary to current popular belief, the anti-war protests of the 1960s were almost completely ineffective in stopping the war, and indeed had just the opposite effect. It wasn't until the Watergate scandal of the early '70s resulted in big changes in Congress that the plug was finally pulled on the Vietnam debacle.

Instead of confronting recruiters, anti-war forces should emphasize their own patriotism and military connections, then politely point out the many flaws in the pro-war policies. Lord knows there are plenty to point out. And, by all means, avoid appearing loud, arrogant, flamboyant or otherwise different from other folks.

I know whereof I speak. As an Army enlisted man in uniform, I was at the Pentagon during a mass protest in 1967 and served in Vietnam the next year.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

they could sure as hell divert that energy to saving their kids rather than allow Big Military to bribe these poor children with monied scams which will always be out of their reach once in. After all, these same "pro-life" parents would do better to show their consistency in keeping their children's lives out of unjustified wars for corporate profits and oil and in the process giving their children a real future of a quality life ahead.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

We need to give stop the War!
I have no desire to undercut our military Readiness, but I do Not want any more sent over to the M.E. Granted we must Educate our 'enlistment' age citizens regarding the Criminality of this War. But that must be done from the Top. I have been very concerned there has been a Concerted effort to destroy OUR Armed Services so tha tthe Private Profiteer Mercenaries can be incorporated as a form of OUR Defense.Who do they pledge their allegeince Too- the Top Bidder? so I would prefer only those who have Patriotic Blood coursing through their veins to Defend this Country and US.
Military Service is not the Problem, It is solely a matter of the 'mission' and as far as I'm concerned this One is for the Benefit of ou=nly the saudis/UAE and their Oil Industry Minions- A land Grab.This Is NOT what OUR Military is to be used For- Let the 'royals' & Inc's stop sucking off US to defend THEIR inteerests and Global Stratedgies, DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO HIDE BEHIND US- using our reputation, our Treasures and OUR KIDS BLOOD!
In Fact I'd like to see more Recruiters to encourage Everyone to enlist so that WE may Conquer Those who are Domestic Enemies hiding in our Gov't and Industry. I want Our 'Kids' nad Our 'toys' to come home and start arresting the entire Executive Branch, Majority in both Houses of Congress, about 3/4 of SCOTUS ,along with the 'top Criminals' in the Oil, Auto, Banking and 'Investment' Industry.it is time to initiate the 'Protect & Defend the Constitution and the Citizens From Domestic enemies' part of their Mission Statement

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

and a waste of resources. Almost exactly analogous to dealing with an accident victim's severed artery by catching the blood in a bowl.

Stop the imperialist attitude of the government, stop the military adventurism, stop the waste of our military power on non-threats to our national security. THOSE are credible goals. Trying to cut off the supply of personnel? The recruitment strategies are many and varied; old folks like me remember a Vietnam-era recruitment strategy called "the draft."

They will get their bodies. We need to control what they do with them.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

There is a young man from my church who is currently dealing with this issue.

A recruiter got him to sign up ON his 18th birthday, even though he was just starting his Junior year of high school.

After consulting with church members and one of our pastors he came to realize the mistake he had made, but the military doesn't want to get their hooks out of him.

Fortunately he has the support of not only our congregation, but there are a lot of resources in our denomination to help him. But his future is still quite uncertain.

I'd like to see a discussion of specific actions a small group could take to help get recruiters out of our schools.

Or barring that, send recruiters from groups like Christian Peacemaker Teams and other, secular peace groups into the schools to recruit right along-side the military recruiters.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

One of my colleagues, a Mexican, told me that he was in high school in Mexico City during the Bush I years almost 20 years ago. In the school there was a recruiting poster for the U.S. Army offering $1000 for any new recruits. His father wisely stopped him from signing up. If the recruiters cannot get U.S. citizens, they will outsource to other countries for new recruits or to private firms like Blackwater. The domestic recruiters are only one part of a massive international recruiting effort. That begs the question, how American is the U.S. military, and is it becoming the new World Army?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Protesting employment opportunities in the worse economy in our life time? Brilliant! Protesting a person's decision to serve their country in uniform? Priceless!

If there were a mass disinformation campaign going on in recruiting offices, we would hear about it or have seen a class action suit. The truth is that the vast majority of the military likes the institution they serve as well as the job they do, even if they do not support this war.

The left's pandering about the military is getting over the top - again. Most members did not enlist as an alternative to McDonalds, but as an alternative to all the jobs that were available at the time they were making a job or career choice - the same way every American chooses a job. And most members do not feel they were lied to. Yes, life after the first day on any job is not what one fantacized, but that awakening is no different for a CEO, bank teller or a firefighter.

Soldiers are just like other Americans, some left, some right, but most in the middle and doing a job they like and chose eyes wide open.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

No one can deny the tragedy of war anywhere on the globe. The ruined lives left in war's wake is heartbreaking. It is also at least open to discussion whether invading Iraq was a good idea in the first place and whether our overall execution of this strategy has been competent. What I refuse to accept is that people who join the military do not know what circumstances might confront them. You can end up in harm's way at the whim of civilians with muddled agendas. Whether attending school for free at one of the academies, drawing a monthly paycheck from the reserves, or anticipating subsequent college assistance, those who join the military receive benefits in exchange for risking life and limb for this country. This author's solution is another example of the most common theme on this web site - people looking to blame someone else for their problems and circumstances. Harassing military recruiters is not the solution here - electing thoughtful leaders (if we can find any) should be the objective.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What 'War Machine" With Dictator Bush at the helm it is a Global Domination machine. Yes, no doubt it does need to be stopped. Sooner we get that War Monger out of office, the better off we will all be.

JT
Ultimate Anonymity

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

A very close friend of mine has a child who tried to commit suicide last fall. He was given meds and was working on getting his life back together.

This February, he met a Navy recruiter who told him he could become a Navy Seal and talked him into signing up.

The kid asked if there would be a problem with his having tried to commit suicide, and the recruiter told him not to tell anyone about it.

The recruiter also told him not to cut his hair, because it was covering some scars from a motorcycle accident he'd had the year before.

This is the kind of recruiting that's being done!

This is the kind of kid we are recruiting. It's no wonder that the suicide rate is so high if they are recruiting sucidal kids to begin with.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

...you have to illustrate its real effects to the dipshits dumb enough to sign on the bottom line. Protests only really help to galvanize those already set in their views- it almost never attracts undecided people to your cause. Sure, there are a few who will allow themselves to get caught up in the zeal of the moment, much like what those same recruiters do when they wave the flag and scream "Patriotism!" to a soft-headed 17 year-old, but those who really have the ability to stop the war won't be impressed, nor will those already caught up in the march to the battlefield. If you really want to stop the machine, you have to show the public the real effects of the war in plain, simple terms. Remember the Terry Schivo thing? It got as big as it did because of the commercials showing her to the public. This caused outcry loud and immediate enough congress intervened immediately. Want the war to really stop? Start showing vets on the way to the hospital after a roadside bomb attack. Put some of the gruesome stuff that's actually happening on national TV. Start interviewing the REAL patriots of Veterans Against The War on the morning dumb-ass interview shows. Start showing the real financial costs of the war. Put the cameramen in the roving patrols in Sadr City or wherever the most gruesome fighting is going on and then broadcast it, UNCENSORED, during prime-time. People don;t protest the war or do much to stop it because of the way its portrayed to us. Most people know, deep down that the government is a seething cesspool of mass corruption but don't do anything because 1. they don't feel there is any real impact they can make and 2. the effects aren't felt at large as yet. As I’ve said in other responses, because there isn't yet mass starvation, people feel as if the war were some bad story on TV that gets regurgitated on a really slow news day' like the unending Israli/Palastinian problem. Yes, it sucks and yes, its tragic, but the tragedy doesn't yet impinge on peoples' everyday lives enough to make them really want to change. Its too easy to change to the newest episode of American Idol or whatever football/basketball/baseball/whatever game is running at the time. Until people get truly uncomfortable, until they truly feel threatened by it, nothing, and I mean NOTHING will change. The effect of the american media is really to mollify and sanitize the news so it doesn't do this. Because we don’t show people the effects of what's happening, the masses don’t really feel as if there is anything to be concerned about, so here we are.

After THAT, setp 2... attacking the monetary support for the war effort...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I can't believe people are shocked by the lies and deceit regarding ANYTHING the government has to offer! These guys HAVE to sweeten the deal, otherwise, who in their right mind would go? These GIs are forever traumatized----and for what? Killing someone you don't even know for.....WHAT? I'd have a much easier time killing in self defense! My dad landed on Normandy beach in WW11, and as they were running off the boats onto the beach, his buddy was shot in the abdomen, literally spilling his guts out, and this guy was in such shock, he kept running, on his own intestines until he collapsed! My father will bring this up now and again-----60 years later! Preserve yourself----stay in school, take up some kind of trade or go to college, protect your family, neighborhood...don't fall for all the hype and lures....don't be labeled a government issue paid killer...it just isn't worth it! Let the rich dudes fight their own fight, after all, they started it!....rise above the pigs and filth and propaganda, there is so much more honor in that, and that is sooo attractive in a man!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hey, all you old hippies and anti-Vietnam War activists out there. Got to the bathroom and look in the mirror. Wha'dya see?

Besides an aging white person you're looking at one of the causes for the underhanded, deceptive recruiting practices our All Volunteer Force uses to lure young men and women whose "...choices in life are confined to working at Burger King or taking your chances in the military..."(blogbooks).

Remember how all you college educated, neo-Democrats of draft age, especially you 1-A guys argued, between hits on the bong, in dorm bull sessions, "End the draft now! Let those who want to be there, be there!"

Remember how you cheered in 1969 when the architect of our current rudderless economy and godfather to our anti-government politicians and god-grandfather to today's College Republican chickenhawks, Milton J. Friedman, flummoxed General William Westmoreland over whether volunteer recruits were mercenaries and draftees "slaves" or not during Gates Commission hearings. Oh, haw, haw, haw--lookit how that whimpy lookin' economist jes' made a jackass outta that dumbass general!!!

If you don't think that crappy hourly wage McDonalds, Wal Mart and the meat-packing industry gets away paying their employees, guess again. If civilian employers paid as well with as many benefits as does the U.S. military do you think Jessica Lynch or Lynndie England or millions of other boys and girls from impoverished areas of the country flock to the recruiting station?

And the irony of the All Volunteer Force, lost on libertarians of every stripe, including the late Friedman, is, the U.S. military is nothing but a big socialist program all on the taxpayers' dime!

So remember, aging hippies, it was you who wanted an end to the draft and its your grandchildren who are paying the consequences.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I believe that anti-recruitment efforts are misguided. What happens if you succeed and nobody volunteers? Will the Military just go away? No. We will return to the draft. If you want to change how things are done you must confront your lawmakers. The ones that make the policy not the ones who carry out that policy. This country needs it's military. How that military is used and how it conducts itself depends on who you the voter put into office. This applies to more than just the President. Inspect your Congressional candidates. Vet them. Just don't vote for them because a D or R follows their name on the ballot.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Tis truly a never ending story...Why is there always someone else responsible for our own actions... when, where, how, will it stop...An illegal or immoral war takes place, and the expectation is that someone else, somewhere, somehow, will correct the wrong. That just won't happen.. Unless enough individuals step forward and take the necessary action to STOP THE WRONG, regardless of the consequences, the wrong will continue. The army of individuals who took to the streets over the Vietnam war were those individuals. We would still be occupying Vietnam if it were not for them. Still, the last stand against immoral actions, which a govt may be perpetrating, is the individual. Why is it that we continue to support the troops, who in some twisted rationale, we perceive to be innocent victims doing the right thing in the wrong place. NO, NO, they are deeply responsible for following the "orders" just as the germans were responsible for following theirs during WWII. Does it take an especially brave person to not follow orders that he or she believes to be immoral or wrong??? Certainly. Would they have to face the consequences of their actions? Certainly. But if enough choose the high road, then if this war is as wrong as most citizens think it is, support would come to the streets by the millions and this war would end. Troops who go and fight a war that they believe to be wrong need to be held accountable not excused. And we meed to be giving them a safe haven from which to say "hell no, I will not go" To do less is to simply be kidding our selves and to be a participant and promoter and supporter of this "war". But one may add, that they have been in the streets, written their congressman, did all sorts of things to end this "crime".. yes but your neighbor has not, thus the soul of this country is no longer "above water" and a few heads above the water line can't save the rest of the passengers whose numbers are too great. What we are witnessing is the dying of this nation.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The most effective way of discouraging people from entering the military is to quite simply, significantly raise the civilian minimum wage and provide ample educational benefits to all Americans. One of my friends is a cook in the Air Force, he only has the rank of E-5 (Sargent) and has been in just a few years, but with his housing allowance his salary is close to $60,000 a year. He also has the GI bill and TriCare insurance for his wife and children. So, from his point of view, what alternative is there? Go to Denny's and work for at best $40K or less a year and probably not have health insurance for his family? Military recruiters are smart, they know it's very dismal prospects that face many kids coming out of high school. Many parents cannot afford college, loans are very limited if available at all, and that leaves places like Wal-Mart, McDonalds and stores at the mall for jobs. In Europe, it's a different story. The military economy is not there like it is in the USA. And, in Western Europe, college education is paid for by the state for those with the scores/grades to get into college. This is how America should be! Instead, all our money is just sucked into the military and the war machine. What a waste. Raise the minimum wage, let people go to college, and then military recruiters will starve!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I am a lawyer with more trial experience than I care to confess. I have a client that is currently serving as an Army recruiting partner. Her role is to screen applicants for "fitness" and then pass them along to her principals. During the past three years, she has been required to dip into the "other" bin to find those that would honor our nation in military service. Among the others are numerous "candidates" with verified mental problems that are now prime candidates for service because the remaining litter is void. Many are suspicious of where it will all lead, particularly when the head is shaved and they are deployed to some boot camp. Her advice to the recalcitrant is gospel...if you don't like it when you get there, tell them you are gay and you will be on your way home immediately. As we read about the military suicides, and post-deployment syndromes that are very real, let us remember the lunatic that started it and then accept the fact that he is more comfortable with like kind about him and with no regard for accountability. Any veteran will attest to my thesis and the consequences will dwarf the Nam experience. Thankfully, the veterans are beginning to speak up. Will their legitimate pleas reach the media, the politicos and the brain dead public? Sure, we all know that god loves america and we can do no wrong.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Anyone reading these comments should know about these great resources for resisting war recruiters who are taking advantage of our kids:
http://www.leavemychildalone.org/

and this film:
http://tinyurl.com/euofl

or at this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75Uog_7WrLk

It's hard to fathom how many lives have been ruined by this insane war.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

stopping the war machine? how about stop fueling the war machine by our national acceptance of war itself. Let face it people, americans are not against war , we are against loosing. We are taught at an early age that winning is everything, in school, sports, business,religion etc. etc. We as individuals and a nation are obsessed with being right and will attack anyone, verbally or otherwise who disagrees with us.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Of course some join the military as an alternative to a minimum wage job. But not everyone. Some actually see it as a promising future; some join out of a true desire to serve.

Let me tell you about two of them.

Our nephew, Tim, worked long and hard to earn an appointment to West Point. He grew up so much at the Point and learned about discipline and honor. He graduated and went on to helicopter flight school and was quickly promoted to Captain. And he remained the handsome, intelligent, goofy young man he always was. He talked over email to our daughter in March of 2006 and told her that he was proud of his service and of the men and women he was serving with and that his only regret would be if he was not around to see his baby girl grow up.

His helicopter was shot down on April 1, 2006 and he was killed.

Our son-in-law, Ben, met our daughter the very day Tim was killed. He was on leave from his first tour in Iraq. He joined the military after 9/11, not because he had nowhere else to go but because he felt compelled to serve. He was an E5 when Michelle met him and was on his way to his E6 when he deployed for the second time in December 2007, 7 months after they married. He believed strongly in God, his family, his wife, himself and Army discipline.

He was killed on December 26, 2007, an event that was reported and brutally debated in this very forum.

Neither of these young men were lured by an underhanded recruiter nor pushed by economic or educational circumstances. They went with a sense of duty and a belief that they were doing something special for their country.

I find it difficult now to hear young people their age whine and complain and wallow in self-indulgence, when they have done nothing to be of service to anyone.

Do not dishonor the majority of those in the military by tarring all with the same brush.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Some years ago a distant relative of mine got in trouble after he became one of the top recruiters for one of the service branches. He was getting paid $50 per recruit and was known to take a potential recruit out, get them high on PCP and then sign them up. That's not America and its not a "volunteer" force.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

TEACH YOUR CHILDREN. We must tell our children the truth about the hows and whys of warfare. So them how corrupted Governments use their people as cannon fodder with the promise
of a 'Higher education'. We can't make the legacy of our times to be the idea that if you disagree with someone it's OK to have them wacked. We must teach the truth about how the media controls the way we think by giving a slant to stories so your mind is guided to the ideals they wish us to support. We must teach them to think for themselves and turn off the TV. We must teach the power of Boycott and Non-support of bad policies and corperate greed,the real New World order. We must teach that it's corperations and not the politicians that run the country,decide when and where wars are fought and which class of people will do the dying. We must teach the truth that the power of Love must overcome the love of power
if we are to become a truly advanced society.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez '08

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

First I have to say that I agree with much of what the previous poster said. As a veteran of the Iraq war who has lost friends to death as well as physical and mental injuries. I personally am 40% disabled as a result of my injuries. I am a staunch opponent of the Iraq war and have been a progressive my entire life. I enlisted in the Army despite having a college degree. I co-founded the Appeal for Redress, an organization that assists service members in contacting their Congressional representatives urging an end to the war. As a journalist, photographer, videographer in the military I witnessed and documented death and destruction occurring in the country. I do not believe we should be there and that government officials should misuse the military to advance their personal views and I believe that President Bush's actions fulfill all the requirements for impeachment and prosecution for murder and war crimes.

However, I do not agree with banning recruiters. I think that we should push for transparency in military recruiting, but complete abolition is not only unlikely but potentially dangerous. Unfortunately, our current society has created a socio-economic hierarchy that is composed of a class of individuals who have few choices in life, and for many, the military offers a way for them to establish financial security, provide health care for their families (the only universal health are in the United States) and even obtain a college education.

I was a graduate of the College of William and Mary, served as Student Body President and was the director of numerous progressive organizations. I came out of college unable to find a job, with student loans and no health insurance. I did my research and determined that the military was a good way for me to solve many of these problems and that the only job I would accept in the Army was that of a Public Affairs specialist as I knew this would improve my chances of pursuing a career in journalism. Now that I am out of the military, my service has granted me Veterans Affairs health care (despite the problems, at least I have something) for the rest of my life, the GI Bill which I will be using when I begin graduate studies in journalism at U.C. Berkeley in the fall (hopefully Sen. Webb's improved GI Bill will be implemented quickly), my admission to each the six graduate programs I applied for was in part due to the experiences I had in the military.

While in the Army I dedicated my time to helping fellow soldiers understand the military bureaucracy and I now do the same for veterans in understanding the VA. I can say with certainty that I would not be where I am now were it not for the military and I know the are countless others who feel the same.

I am a strong proponent of mandatory government service, military or otherwise, patterned after the programs in countries such as Switzerland and Germany. If the military was comprised of individuals from all walks of life there would be greater transparency and perhaps no need for recruiters at all.

However, this will most likely never happen. That is why it is the responsibility of people, especially veterans, to press for transparency in recruiting, but also press to have ROTC programs reinstated in the several Ivy League schools who dropped them. If you want to ensure a fair and just military, and thus eliminate the possibility of political wars, then you need to pull all Americans together and encourage them to serve their part. We need to reestablish the direct connection between governing officials and those in the military that was so common in WWI and WWII.

I recommend that everyone pick up a copy of the book "AWOL: The Unexcused Absence of America's Upper Classes from Military Service-and How it Hurts Our Country" by Kathy Roth-Douquet and Frank Schaeffer. It will make you think.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I wouldn't be joining the military if I was able to find a decent job. But I can't, because Ct, one of the most liberal states in the country, is suffering from a huge exodus of business right now. They're sick of paying taxes out of the ass, so they're moving down south, where its cheaper to operate. The Peter Paul plant in Naugatuck just closed down; it's moving it's operations to North Carolina. Ct is also suffering from a huge aging population, because most of its young people are leaving the state the moment they graduate from college. It costs too much to live here. The shitty basement apartment I rent alone eats up two thirds of my monthly pay.

So I'll tell you what: I officially sign the papers in three weeks (provided everything goes well at MEPS). Then I head to Boot Camp in early August. If any of you can offer me a job in Ct for $25k/yr with health insurence, I'll tell my recruiter to take his contract, and his sign on bonus and shove it. Thats all I'm looking for. I don't think thats unreasonable to ask given all my work experience (5+ years, and I'm only 20), education and skills.

If not, then you're the ones who need to shove it. Because the military is offering me a hell of alot more than your bloated government has in my entire life.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

is that public high schools and colleges are bound to provide (sell?) student information to the military...

when my daughter was a senior in high school she used to get phone calls from the local recruiter ...i don't know what she ever said to him, but one evening i answered the phone [just after bush's illegal invasion of iraq] - he asked for her as if he were a close friend...he had a very deep voice and sounded far more mature than her friends, so i asked who he was and why he was calling. he said "i'm "nancy's" recruiter" - my response was "we don't have a recruiter - we are pacifists in this home do not call here again or i will report it as harassment" and hung up...to my knowledge he never called again.

when the recruiter calls: JUST SAY NO!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Soldier

It is the soldier, not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.

It is the soldier, not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

It is the soldier, not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.

It is the soldier,
who salutes the flag,
who serves under the flag,
and whose coffin is draped by the flag,
who allows the protester to burn the flag.

By Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The military is necessary but not the way it is in the USA today. That is the problem progressives have with it. The USA has troops garrisonned, at huge financial cost, around the world. From Germany, to Japan, to Korea. And, that's not even counting the war zones. Meanwhile, millions of Americans have no health insurance, little children have to attend violent and chaotic schools, and the infrastructure of America is crumbling. Given this, just what the hell is America doing with thousands of troops in places like Germany? The USA is letting rich European countries develop the Social Welfare State America cannot have because she cannot afford it. America is a sucker for defending such rich countries anyway. Countries that don't even pay 1/10th of what the USA spends annually on defense. Meanwhile, the huge size and power of the USA military just invites trouble. It invites trouble because ding-dongs like GW Bush can use it to invade countries, under false pretext, like Iraq, and piss away billions and ultimately trillions of dollars that we badly need at home. So, yes, the USA, needs a military. For self-defense and not for "strategic objectives," defined only by jackass Presidents. One that is about 1/4 the size of the one we have today. That's the way it is. As for the kids who join the military, once many of them figure this out, they often become bitter and disillusioned. Which is not the answer either. Then, its time to move past the military and on to a productive life.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Until it gets into somebody's hands. It's still harmless in the hands of a sane and responsible person. It only becomes deadly in the hands of a psychopath, or a complete numbskull. The same can be said of the Armed Forces. Take the Clinton years for example. One UN sanctioned military operation in Europe, resulting in zero US casualties. Now, look at the psychopathic bush gang. At least 4000 plus US military deaths and tens of thousands more permanently scarred for life, one way or another. These are the numbers admitted to by an "administration" nobody believes or trusts any more. No mention is ever made of the death toll of innocent Iraqi civilians,which is at least 100,000, and may be as high as one million, and all over dirty LIES, told to us by a gang of sadistic, cowardly,traitorous, murdering bastards. I,m reminded of E.A. Poe's "Murders in the Rue Morgue" in which a demented orangatan gets ahold of a straight razor, with ghastly consequences. This is as good a metaphor for the bushies as any, in my opinion.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

I don't have to bother with an attribution for this quote.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

If you want to see some sick, twisted propoganda check out this site. I saw an ad for it on TV, and there's a slich 4-color glossy ad for it every few days in my local paper.

It purports to be a social network of moms helping each other decide whether their kids should joing the Navy.

It is actually 100% recruiter propoganda bullshit.

Can't someone stop this? Please?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I felt better reading your article, because I have lived in Berkeley almost all my life, and I have issues with the people trying to shut down the Marine Recruitment Office (freedom of speech) but on the other hand, I think that if the Marines recruit someone who goes to the illegal unsanctioned war in Iraq, that's one more war criminal (that goes for Public Affairs Specialists too). And like you, I just can't understand how we got into this war--do so few people (especially in Congress and the administration) remember the disaster that was Vietnam? I just cannot understand anyone who justifies this war and condones its participants under any circumstances, unless they admit they were wrong.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

...directed at the civilian leadership, or indeed, half as much education directed at the population that elects them, you might not have to spit at so many people in the final analysis.

My argument would be to get the bastards out of power, and thereby sate your desire to despise folks in uniform by letting them come home and quit eating babies, or whatever you fantasize that military members do for fun and profit.

Most of you are hopeless, however, and reasoning fails.

So does civics. Go back to sixth grade.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I just wanted to add, there is a technique called(EMDR) that is supposed to help with PTSD.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Thank you Mr. Kovic. The trouble is that today we don't have a draft as we did during the Viet Nam fiasco. I was drafted in 72 and was finally forced to refuse induction at the LA induction center as my deferment options had run out. I was found guilty and sentenced to six months in Lompoc Federal Prison, to be followed by six years of parole, fortunately my lawyer got my case overturned on appeals. I did the time but the parole was overturned. Prison was my grad school, I studied smoking dope without being caught and learned how corrupt the system was ( and is).
My point is that I would recommend any soldier now in the service to simply stop following orders on moral grounds. The Army Field Manual states that it's the soldier's RESPONSIBILITY not to follow illegal orders. This war is based on lies about defense of freedom and security from terrorists. it is really a corporate war of occupation to secure oil for the energy challenged future and to make obscene profits for energy and war services corporations.

The recruiters also need to be personally responsible and disobey their orders, since swindling more underprivileged youth into joining for the promise of future benefits simply amounts to a bribe. The recruiters and their targets are both in the same economic handcuffs and they see their reward down the road after they have successfully completed their tour of duty. This amounts to blackmail.

The Viet Nam war was ended ultimately by the draft since civilians protested, refused and saw their sons bodies on the evening news.

Yes the media is the biggest part of the puzzle, but they will only be pulled into the story when the soldiers begin to take it on their own shoulders not to participate. When that happens it will be on the evening new, and America will slowly awaken form its hypnotic slumber.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

the 1st "US soldier" to die in the 2003 US invasion was either a Mexican or Honduran citizen; don't remember which.

jdfu!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

a single mother standing in front of a Maryland recruiting office with a sign that read: AN ARMY OF ONE LET'S KEEP IT THAT WAY!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I did the math on what it would take to have a permanent presence outside of a Military Recruiting Office in Hartford, Connecticut staffed only by citizens of Hartford.


Hartford, Connecticut has a population of 124,387.

Of those, 8.3% are children under 5, 30.1% are children under 18, and 9.5% are senior citizens above the age of 65.

This reduces the volunteer pool down to 59581 potential volunteers.

Of those half probably don't even vote and could care less about the issue. This leaves us with 29790 people.

Of those half are probably Republican and would oppose this plan to decrease recruitment. This leaves us with 14895 people.

Of those Democrats probably only 1 in 10 would have a strong enough feeling about the war that they would be willing to volunteer a little bit of their time to help stop it. This leaves us with 1489 people.


Assuming the military recruiters office is open say 12 hours a day, from 8 am to 8 pm that means we would have 84 hours a week we need volunteers there.

Say we would need 2 people there at all times, just in case of a no show or something like that, we wouldn't want to leave the booth empty.

Say the average person signs up for a 4 hour shift, we would need 42 people to volunteer during the week to man the booth.

That brings us to roughly 168 people a month and roughly 2184 people a year.


With 2184 people needed to volunteer for 4 hour shifts a year and a pool of 1489 people that would be willing to volunteer their time, the average person would only need to volunteer twice a year.


This is so easily doable. All we need is organization.

We need to draw up schedules, write the literature, and manage storage of the table and brochures at the end of the day.

We are far more powerful than the government can possibly imagine.

We merely need to recognize it and act on it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

From Nietzsche's The Wander and His Shadow (284),

"And perhaps the great day will come when a people, distinguished by wars and victories and by the highest development of a military order and intelligence, and accustomed to make the heaviest sacrifices for these things, will exclaim of its own free will, 'We break the sword,' and will smash its entire military establishment down to its lowest foundations. Rendering oneself unarmed when one had been best-armed, out of a height of feeling---that is the means to real peace, which must always rest on peace of mind; whereas the so-called armed peace, as it now exists in all countries, is the absence of peace of mind. One trusts neither oneself nor one's neighbor and, half from hatred, half from fear, does not lay down arms. Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared---this must someday become the highest maxim for every single commonwealth too."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I totally agree and will continue to stand up to recruiters as often as I can. For those who agree, there is a group out there called CAMMMO. It's Citizens Against Military Mass Marketing Objectives. It's about informing and uniting against the cause of Marketing strategies used by the Military. You can join at their website, Cammmo.org, or on Myspace.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Tell them from a young age that they can't trust the words of anyone representing the government. Tell them that patriotism is not the version that is rammed down their throats in school. Counter-indoctrinate them with real information. If they learn to be skeptical, and to never sign on the dotted line until it's reviewed by an attorney, or they have at least a three-day "buyers remorse" escape clause, they're less likely to enlist without due diligence. Promises are nothing unless they are in writing and signed, especially if you are dealing with the government. And, in particular, they should not believe anything they see on the "news" unless they can corroborate it with non- corporate news sources.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Sometimes when your choices in life are confined to working at Burger King or taking your chances in the military, you just take your chances. Most young people that join the military know they could end up dead or injured but they hope they won't and sign up anyway.

Oh PLEASE. That old saw about the poor stupid no-hoper underprivileged great unwashed signing up ... come ON!

I enlisted in the Air Force. I also had scholarships to great schools (Princeton, Brown) but I wanted to travel and see something different. Military service is a tradition in my family. My recruiter did not lie to me. Everybody in Basic Training knew what we were in for. During the first Gulf War we all volunteered for front-line jobs.

I did five years and left, but my spouse stayed in as an enlistee, and 20 years later we make the same salary - $70k per year. He and most of his co-workers have earned or are pursuing graduate degrees free of charge. Plus, he can retire right about now and we'll have health care for the rest of our lives.

I'm glad he and I made such a horribly misinformed choice, or we'd probably be working behind a fast food counter in the ghetto today.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This war, and the people fighting it, are trying to save the American Life Style. The real reason this war started is the fact that Iraq (Saddam) started to sell its oil reserves in Euros. When Saddam made that move in 2000, we had to invade to take over his national bank and switch the oil sales back to US Dollars. As soon as we accomplished this switch, victory was declaired. The Government is not concerned with Terror, or helping the people of Iraq. That is just a bunch of spinn to get support for the war. I wish more people would realize this is a currency war to save the value of our US Dollar. Now Iran has made the same switch and it will only be a matter of time before our Government makes up an excuse to invade them too.

If we stop the War Machine we will all be in the poor house. The Fact is, in the early 70's Nixon made a deal with OPEC (which consists of all the oil producing countries in the Middle East) to only sell oil in US Dollars. This created a high demand for the US Dollar which kept it valuable. Any country that wanted to buy oil needed US Dollars. For all these countries to obtain US Dollars they needed to sell us goods. To recieve these goods all the Government had to do is start up a printing press and make money. We printed money for next to nothing and recieved valuable goods in return. These countries in turn would buy oil from OPEC and then OPEC would invest these dollars in american business (The Stock Market / Banks / Real Estate / Etc.) This is called Petro Dollar Recycling. It all worked like a well oiled machine until the year 2000. That is when Saddam decided to hit us where it hurts and started selling his oil in Euros and exchanging all his US Dollar bank reserves into Euros. All of the sudden Tons of US dollars started comming back to America. That made the value of our dollar drop and the value of the Euro go up. Now our government had to come up with Tons of Euros in exchange. That is a big problem because America can't just print Euros. America has to provide goods to get Euros and that is much harder than just printing US Dollars. Also Big Business lost all the Petro Dollar Recycling Money. (Basically, money Big Business got to play with; money the Government got to play with; and even money us little guys got to play with.) That is why the stock market was strong, our military is strong, Gas was cheap, and stuff from china was so cheap.

Well, the governments solution was to go to war with Iraq, take over their banks, and swith their oil sales back to US Dollars. Of course they needed to make the Axis of Evil / Terror excuse to get the American people behind the effort. The U.S. Government was praying for 911 a year before it happened. There is proof of that. In reallity 911 was the perfect excuse they needed. And I think they helped it along. Yes, I belive they would help kill some of us to save their play money. People get killed for money all the time and our government is no different.

Anyway, I don't want to get off track. Now Iran has started selling its oil in Euros and that will need to be stopped. As their Tons of Dollars start coming back we are all feeling the affect. Gas is over $4.00 a gallon, prices at Walmart / Kmart are on the rise, house prices are falling, and the stock market is weaker. And it is going to get worse unless we expand our War Machine to Iran.

We all need to realize that we can vote Democrats into office, or Republicans into office, and the War Machine will continue. The excuse may change a little. With Republicans it's to fight the Axis of Evil. With Democrates we will be told the war is a fight for Humanity. When all along the war is to make sure oil is sold in U.S. Dollars. And the fact is, if we want to live the American lifestyle, we are going to have to support this War. And keep the recruting offices full of our young men and women.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

"There’s not that much difference between my position and George Bush’s position at this stage. The difference, in my mind, is who’s in a position to execute."
-- Barack Obama on Iraq, July 27, 2004, Chicago Tribune

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Draft would give thousands the opportunity to join the Military who would otherwise never consider it. Many would learn what a great career choice serving this counrty is. I do not think it is fair for a brave few to volunteer for service when the USA has at it's desposial thousands of men and women to serve the PEOPLE. Bring back the draft and make service and defense of this country more fair. Lets give all a chance to fight for this great country. DRAFT THE BRAVE AND COWARDS TOGETHER!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

BUT, I disagree with your position on harrasment of troopers trying to do their duty. By trying to stop recruiters from doing their job to replenish the empty slots left by those that have done their duty, you stand in the way of future servicemen and women that wish to do theirs. Our society is free because of the men and women who serve. Lets not forget those who have died or been wounded like the author. Demonstrators at military posts and recruiting offices are not seen as "Supporting the Troops, not the War". They are seen as anti-military. When you protest them, you protest us. When you bomb them, you bomb us. When you make threatening calls to them, you threaten us. When you spit on them, you spit on us. When you call them murderers, you call us murderers. This war will end. We will need well trained people to fight the next fight, no matter who sends us into harms way.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ordering Xanax Online
Order Codeine Online
Purchase Xanax
Buying Xanax
No Prescription Xanax

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hydrocodone order
Vicodin order
Order Ritalin Online
Order Percocet Online
Didrex 50mg

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Oxycontin online prescriptions
Oxycontin Online
Buy oxycontin online
Oxycontin without prescription
BUY OXYCONTIN

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

As a 27 year veteran of the cold war and of combat action in the Middle East, my opinion is that you are missing the point. You are attacking the symptom and not the problem. War is an extention of politics "by other means" and as such there is no such thing as a "military solution", only political solutions. Attacking military recruiters misses the point entirely and is the ultimate disrespect for those soldiers and sailors who are serving you. They are just doing what you tell them to based on the orders of the government that you elect. If you don't like the orders, then let your elected officials know. If they won't listen then elect someone who will. If you don't like the choices then run for office yourself. It's all about politics. We own the system- don't take out your frustrations on some guy who would rather be home with his family than doing a third tour in the desert. By all means- let your voice be heard, but where it counts- in the White House and in Congress. By the way, Sadam killed more Iraqi's than we ever did. We are stuck there to keep Iraqi's from killing each other. We'll be glad to leave as soon as they get their collective sh_t together. Unless you are a big supporter of President Ahmadinejad and want to see Iran take over the entire region for the Glory of the Islamic Revolution, we can't just walk out of Iraq. Then again, maybe you have a solution other than harassing my brothers in arms who are just doing their best to serve us all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I don't think that these discussions about the suffering of veterans and soldiers are going to help much. People have never cared, and they often voted and cheered to go back to war just a couple of decades after the last horror.

The argument against these kinds of wars is much simpler: they don't work. Bush spent a trillion dollars of tax payer's money on the war and has nothing to show for it other than an economy in shambles, broken foreign relationships, security scares at airports, and $4/gal prices at the pump. Bush is an abject failure, even by the most "conservative" standards.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]