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Martin Amis & Chris Hitchens: Vicious Racism Concealed by a British Accent

By John Dolan, AlterNet. Posted May 24, 2008.


The American right wing, desperate for articulate hate mongers, is importing UK polemicists to stir the base up against the Muslim/Arab "enemy."

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Martin Amis' new book, The Second Plane, is worth discussing only as a symptom of the plague of British right-wing ("Tory") rhetoric popping up in American conservative discourse. The American right wing, desperate for articulate hate mongers, has taken to importing Tory polemicists to stir the base up against the Muslim/Arab "enemy."

In mealymouthed America, where most people are shocked by anything stronger than "You know what? I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that," the Tory writer's comfortable, familiar stance toward hatred can make an undistinguished hack seem like a powerful voice. That's why Christopher Hitchens is now the darling of right-wing America. Our homegrown hate mongers, like Ann Coulter, are so painfully amateurish and ham-handed that Hitchens, simply by applying the old Tory hater's kit, can seem like a master.

Apparently, even educated American editors are suckers for imported British bile. That's the only way to explain the fact that many of the essays collected in The Second Plane were originally published by the New Yorker and the New York Times Magazine. So, more as a public-health warning than a literary review, here's a look at Tory rhetoric as exemplified by Martin Amis.

Tory discourse has only two topics: hatred of the new and foreign, and grief for the old and familiar. The object of its hatred changes its name from generation to generation, from Papist to Jew to Irish to German to Russian to Arab; but the methods used to vilify the currently demonized alien are remarkably stable over the generations. Every device Amis uses to vilify Arabs and Muslims can be found, aimed at other targets, in Tory literature going back several decades.

Martin learned the poison-pen trade at home, from his father, novelist Kingsley Amis. Like Hitchens, Kingsley started out by calling himself a leftist, but a leftist who hated almost everything about the left except that fact that it shared his hatred for his social superiors. Once his novel Lucky Jim became a hit and he joined the elite, Kingsley discovered that he had no further grudges with the Tories and spent the rest of his life vilifying women, non-whites, and anyone else who failed to meet his standards of English-ness.

To American readers, the targets of Tory xenophobia can seem bizarre, even comic. For instance, in Lucky Jim, Amis Senior rails against Italian cooking, denouncing olive oil at some length as a vile "butter substitute." Keith Waterhouse, another Tory writer of that era, devotes half a page in one of his novels to a similar sermon against pizza. This obsession with Italian food, which was just coming into fashion in Britain, suggests an important difference between British and American right-wing writing: While most American conservative rhetoric pays lip service to "melting pot" rhetoric, British writers are openly xenophobic, assailing all foreign influences, whether in cookery or movies. Hitchens, for example, took a bizarre detour in one of his screeds to denounce the unfair presentation of medieval English royalty in Braveheart.

And unlike most American rightists, British Tories are always defeatists, convinced their cause is lost, paralyzed by nostalgia for an imaginary golden age or fighting a rearguard action in defense of a doomed, yet superior culture. In Lord of the Rings terms, England is Gondor, Mordor is the alien (the Arab/Muslim, at the moment), and without a Frodo-level game-saver, we're doomed. You can hear this sort of wretched whine even in pop music, as when Morrissey moans, "We are the last truly British people you will ever know." (Though in an amusing twist, Morrissey later came out of the ethnic closet and admitted he was Irish.)

It's not that psychiatrists don't pass out enough Prozac across the Atlantic. There's a very sound basis for Tory gloom: Britain lost the 20th century. Take a look at a map of the world circa 1900 and you'll see what a devastating fall England has suffered. In 1900, most of the Tropics were colored British pink. Now all that's left is Britain itself, a wet little island.

The logical conclusion for the Tory, looking back on that great fall, is that the 20th century was a horrible mistake. By contrast, America seemed to be doing very well right up to Sept. 11, 2001 (though some would place the catastrophe a bit earlier, on Nov. 5, 2000, or Jan. 20, 2001). Only after 9/11 and the Iraq catastrophe did right-wing America feel a doomed affinity for Tory gloom and hatred.

So now Red-State America is in the mood to hear that the whole modern world is a big mistake. That was exactly the argument of Paul Johnson, popular right-wing historian of the Thatcher era. But since he couldn't say outright that the natives were better off when ruled from London, he resorted to literary techniques to make anti-Imperialist heroes like Gandhi into villains in his big Thatcher-era pop history book, Modern Times. Johnson showed Tory writers how to defend the indefensible (imperialism, colonial massacres) using literary devices rather than argument. So although he can't really say outright that everything was better when London ruled India, he devotes a strange amount of space to slandering the sexual practices and toilet habits of Gandhi and the suspect lack of sexual enthusiasm of former U.N. Secretary General Dag Hammarskjold.

Johnson's career as moral enforcer ended in the usual way, when the part-time girlfriend who'd been whipping his bare bottom for years grew tired of listening to Johnson talk about the sanctity of marriage and his love for his wife. She took a page out of Johnson's book by selling her lurid story to the tabloids. Johnson's response was a classic: "We are all sinners. I know I am." By that time, of course, everybody knew.

Martin Amis shows himself a worthy disciple of Johnson by using sexual slander as the main persuasive device in "Terror and Boredom: The Dependent Mind," an essay on the life and works of Islamist Sayyid Qutb. Amis implies that 9/11 came about because of a murky shipboard sexual incident involving Qutb a half-century ago. In this typical piece of Tory slander, Islamism has nothing to do with real political issue but is the product of one man's sexual problems: "Promptly giving up hope of coming across a woman of 'sufficient' cleanliness, (Qutb) resolved to stick to the devil he knew: virginity."

Stretching the notion of sexual maladjustment as the root of all Islamic evil, Amis makes one of his most unintentionally funny points by contrasting a crowd of dark, threatening Pakistani youths with normal, healthy, drugged, drunk and horny Western youth. It seems these Pakistani kids harassed one of Amis' friends. We're not told what the friend was doing on their turf. In Tory rhetoric, the white intruder is always perfectly innocent, and any hostility shown him, even when he's in Imperial uniform and bayoneting civilians, is mere unjustified rudeness. Amis' comparison of these vile non-white kids to their wonderful Western counterparts has to be read to be believed:

"At this time of day, their equivalents in the great conurbations of Europe and America, could expect to ease their not very sharp frustrations by downing a lot of alcohol, by eating large meals with no dietary restrictions by downing yet more alcohol as well as additional stimulants and relaxants, by jumping up and down for several hours on strobe-lashed dance floors, and (in a number of cases) by having galvanic sex with near-perfect strangers."

There's so much sheer nonsense here that it's difficult to pick the most absurd phrase, though I confess a personal fondness for that wacky, out-of-left-field slap Amis gives, in passing, to Muslim dietary laws. Yes, clearly the reason that Western youth don't fly jets into buildings is that they can eat "large meals with no dietary restrictions." Does that put Orthodox Jews on the no-boarding list?

What makes this passage so typical of Amis, and so godawful, is that it's written in ponderous, 18th century prose, as if Doctor Johnson had decided to write in favor of ecstasy-soaked raves. Adding to the comedy, Amis then sprinkles his leaden prose with neologisms that would have had the good Doctor howling on the floor.

Most writers would giggle at a word like "conurbations" and settle for something ordinary, like "cities." Not Amis. Most writers would flinch when reading over a first draft containing phrases like "their not very sharp frustrations," "strobe-lashed" and my favorite, "galvanic sex" preceded by the earnest parenthesis "(in a number of cases)." I can't read that phrase "galvanic sex" without thinking of high-school biology and jumping frog legs, and I still wonder whether "in a number of cases" (how many exactly, Marty?) means that some unlucky Western youth don't get to have sex at all, or merely that their couplings don't rate the adjective "galvanic." I'm also a little worried by "near-perfect." Golly, was there an embarrassingly placed mole? Tan lines?

Tory writers always go a little crazy when sex comes up. One of Amis' most distinguished predecessors in the use of sexual slander against the Left is C.S. Lewis. Lewis knew very little about the modern world -- or women, or sex -- except that he was against the lot. So rather than research the topic and risk learning something, he resorted to novelistic technique, peopling his anti-modern science-fiction fables with homophobic caricatures like the sadistic nurse Hardcastle, a socialist monster who delights in putting out her cigars on the heroine's breasts.

Torture has always been the big sexual thrill in Tory polemical fiction. It's always attributed to the evil alien, whether a Chinese dealer in white slaves, a sadistic Prussian officer, or, as in Martin Amis' story "In the Palace of the End," a thinly disguised version of Uday, Saddam Hussein's son. In this sample of Amis' tour of Uday's pleasure palace, Amis offers the reader an entirely imaginary catalogue of depravity, including pedophilia, sadism and bestiality:

I said, "What was in that sack?"

Earlier that morning I had spent an abnormally uncomfortable half-hour yelling at a suspect while a blood-steeped canvas mailbag jerked and jumped around the cubicle floor. The scream it emitted put one in mind of a boiling kettle. "Yes," he said, "A severe measure. The sack contained some starving animals plus the suspect's 3-year-old daughter." "So I imagined. But wasn't there something unusual about the animals?" "Not in themselves. You know -- 'bats and cats and rats.' But the vet said they'd been overstarved. So he gave them all a shot. Amphetamine. A very stubborn case."
A 3-year-old girl tortured to death by being tied in a sack with drugged vermin, screaming like "a boiling kettle" -- some might call this the sickest child porn they've ever read, but the New Yorker, America's most venerable literary magazine, saw fit to publish it.

The funny thing is, Tory propagandists hate America themselves. Until he was bribed to prop up Bush, Christopher Hitchens spewed the usual Tory loathing for the United States, based in resentment of the usurpers who took over Britain's imperial role. Mark Steyn, Tory darling of the neocons, once wrote an article for the Sunday Telegraph, a Tory rag, titled "The United States of Losers and Bozos," chortling over America's bungled response to the terrorist bomb at the Atlanta Olympic Games. There's a very strong whiff of this delight in American misfortune in Amis' title essay, "The Second Plane," as when he chuckles: "The Pentagon is a symbol, and the WTC is, or was, a symbol." Yes, "or was." Thank you for clarifying that, for rubbing the past tense in the reader's face. Reading that title essay, one veers between shock at the sheer awfulness of the writing, to disgust at Amis' delight in the gory details of an American icon being destroyed.

The appalling prose style is set in the first sentence of the book: "It was the advent of the Second Plane sharking in low over the Statue of Liberty." That loud, clanking metaphor, "sharking in," is classic Amis, the sort of thing first-year creative writing students consider great writing until they hear the giggles of their classmates.

Another classic first-year prose technique is the use of religious terminology, like "advent," in describing extreme violence. Violence and the Sacred, as first-years have been taught for generations; it's the formula set in hard-boiled detective prose, except that Amis is playing a Naked Gun narration over a rather larger murder scene than usual.

Sheer nerve is Amis' strength, the kind that lets an author do a Lt. Frank Drebin voiceover of a catastrophe. And clearly, sheer nerve will carry you a long way, especially with an audience as gullible as the editorial staff of New Yorker -- which actually published this trash.

Sometimes the stupidity of Amis' assertions is so blatant that one can't see how any reader, no matter how tone-deaf or logic-challenged, could let them pass. For example, what are we supposed to make of Amis' solemn claim that "the Second Plane meant the end of everything"? How about, "No it didn't"? And what dozing copy editor passed on this clunker: "For us, its glint was the worldflash of a coming future"? Just read that sentence over a few times, savor its rottenness. The first thing you notice, of course, is the showy, clumsy metaphor "worldflash," one of those neologisms whose difficulty is supposed to pass as innovation. Dazzled by this high-profile clunker, you might miss my favorite part of the sentence, "a coming future." Yes, that's what futures tend to do, isn't it? Come, I mean. As far as I can see, there is no reason on earth to add "coming" to "future" unless you're (a) none too bright and (b) being paid by the word.

Still on the very first page of the book, we learn that "Flight 175 was an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (capitals in original) aimed at (America's) innocence."

Innocence? How, exactly, does a Manhattan office block stand for "innocence"? The World Trade Center could be said to stand for many admirable things, like drive, daring and ambition -- but innocence? And what are we to make of Amis' pronouncement that the WTC attacks were "the apotheosis of the postmodern era -- the era of images and perceptions. Wind conditions were also favorable"? Wind conditions were favorable for postmodernism? A nice sunny day with variable interpretations and occasional showers of vaporized concrete?

Look closely at that passage, and you can see how crude and provincial Amis' prose really is. As usual, he starts with a misapplied religious term, "apotheosis," followed by secondhand, dated seminar jargon: "the postmodern era -- the era of images and perceptions." Baudrillard himself, the old fraud, would cringe at such a simplistic parroting of his catchphrases. Is Amis really so ignorant that he thinks previous eras lacked iconic images of cataclysmic events? Remember the Maine? The Plague? The Crucifixion? I seem to recall that those pre-postmoderns had something of a knack for capturing great death scenes.

Viewed as literature, The Second Plane is utterly worthless bombast. It doesn't make any sense, and isn't even really meant to make any sense. It's simply hysterical funeral rhetoric, and there was a lot of it in the aftermath of 9/11. That's understandable. What's not so easy to understand, or forgive, is that the editors of America's leading journals saw fit to publish this trash, and that even now, seven years later, American reviewers are overawed by this grotesque collage of bombast, defeatism, hate-mongering and sadomasochistic pornography.

John Dolan is an editor of the Moscow-based English-language alternative paper, The eXile. He is the author of, most recently, Pleasant Hell.

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See more stories tagged with: christopher hitchens, martin amis, the second plane

John Dolan is an editor of the Moscow-based English-language alternative paper, The eXile. He is the author of, most recently, Pleasant Hell (Capricorn, 2005).

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English language discrimination
Posted by: beeden on May 24, 2008 1:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Language has long been used by the English to manipulate opinion, it's government policy, a read of Robert Phillipson's "Linguistic Imperialism" exemplifies the full extent of this attitude; from deliberate destruction of traditional languages, conspicuous discrimination based on patterns of english language usage, to maintaining a select english language power group in previous colonial countries. This book is an exceptional read for anyone interested in language and its capacity to manipulate.

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» Hitchens, right wing?? Posted by: CulturalMutilation
The Babel from England Doesn't Stop with Writers ...
Posted by: mmckinl on May 24, 2008 1:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually many failed conservative Brits come knocking on our door ...

From economists to historians they come taking full advantage of America's susceptibility to anything Anglophile. From Sabastian Mallaby's economic fallacies to Simon Shama's historical maladies the American landscape is now littered with retrograde British " talent".

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Who is John Dolan?
Posted by: colinmeister on May 24, 2008 3:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An ex-pat living in Moscow? Hardly anybody has heard of him or his newspaper or books. Unlike the famous, very funny, and very successful Kingsley Amis, Dolan has to spew hatred of successful British authors in order to grab a little publicity for himself and to publicise his latest book.

If people don't like what Amis (Sr. and Jr.) and Hitchins write, then they won't buy or read their books. I don't like what Dolan writes, so I won't read his books.

As it happens, I was listening to a book program on NPR yesterday, and Faith Middleton, an 'Out' lesbian and progressive, who hosts the show, named her 'Must read' book as "Everyday Drinking", a collection of writings on drinking alcohol by Kingsley Amis. Thank you Faith, I will buy the book!

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» RE: Who is John Dolan? Posted by: avatar_singh
» Authority by popularity? Posted by: Beastly
Uninteresting article
Posted by: Lector on May 24, 2008 4:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It appears that Dolan put Christopher Hitchens’ name in the title just to attract more readers since there is little of interest in this article about him that isn’t already known or misinterpreted as Dolan so lazily does or implies. Hitchen “invaded” to the U.S permanently in 1980 and is now a citizen.

It is sloppy to imply that Hitchens is like Amis Kingsley and to go on with an omission that “Like Hitchens, Kingsley started out by calling himself a leftist,” Hitchens labels himself neither Right or Left today if you carefully read his writings. Also there is little justification in the article for his claims that Hitchens is a racist. A polemicist against Islam he is and his reasons have nothing to do with the neo-con crowd, which he doesn’t care for.

It is evident or maybe Dolan just ignores it, that certain Islamic movements in Europe have a problem integrating themselves into the Western tradition. He only has to read the newspapers there, especially what happened in Holland recently, to understand what Islamic extremism is all about. That equal rights between native indigenous Hollanders and Muslims are not equal and apparently an Imam in Holland can make a complaint to the police if a Dutchman, or anyone, pokes fun at his own mulitculturalist society and Islam, as was the case when a Dutch cartoonist was arrested last week for exercising his right to free speech . The eXile’s articles, has a general tone of contempt for the U.S. so anything coming from there is suspect.

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» RE: Uninteresting article Posted by: soulrebeljc
» RE: Uninteresting article Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Uninteresting article Posted by: Drume
» RE: Uninteresting article Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Uninteresting article Posted by: ændres
Usual British tricekry to wage world wars through american proxy.
Posted by: avatar_singh on May 24, 2008 7:38 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it is very important to realize and understand the trickery of the english nation in manipulating usa to wage wars on behalf of britain which gains most from Iraq war and any war that usa imposes on the third world and even on Europe.

Here are some of the writings done years ago to give a global picture of what is REALLY happening in the world and by WHOSE agency.
The modus operandi of Britain is to make country and regions unstable and install british stooge with explicit instruction to bring the money -looted ones -to Britain from where it is not going to go anywhere else.
Some oligarch Jews (like thee criminal U.K.-based fugitive oligarch Boris Berezovsky)
were the stooge of British in Russia and they brought so many ill gotten money to uk. So did the Kuwaitis-who brought 4 billions of pounds within a week of first Iraq war problem in august 1990 -so has continued the massive loot of the rest of the world by the English .race through this money protection racket . It is money protection racket in the sense that those eliete’s money is protected only when it is made to be lodged in British London banks. The witness, who appeared on the Rossiya channel with his face hidden and was referred to as Pyotr, accused 61-year-old Berezovsky of killing Alexander Litvinenko because the former security officer knew how the exiled tycoon had obtained political asylum in Britain in 2003. This thief boris berezosvky is a terrorist as well who calls for violet end to Putin-the president who is one of the most loved of his countrymen compared to any in the world.
As someone said “We live in a world where criminals are good guys and patriots are villains: where Berezovsky is a liberal "human rights" activist and Putin is a moral monster.” that putin who is one of the most popular leader of any in the world.
say even if russia destroys usa then if britian or rather england is allowed to exist then the english parastic dog race will ,by very parasitic nature, will try to disrupt russia or other countries' existence. therefore instead of attacking usa or poland it is best policy of russia to attrack and destroy to the whole of england which must be evaporated to a rubble.
IN '88 when Dalai lama, at the height of Tibetan disturbances, visited west, the then british prime minister refused to meet Him. Later on with the demise of Russia and usefulness of China gone and with manipulation to keep power in Hong Kong somehow intact, the same british media and government ,like dog, started barking at China. It is interesting that amnesty international selectively targets those very countries( as it did china after cold war) who are out of favour (because they would not be a british stooge) of the british media and govt. This is not surprising as amnesty international is the creation of british govt, and british media. england with the most appalling record of human rights in last 200 years of her evil rule, needed some organisation to keep the others from charging england off her past and current evil practices. In other words it went for aggressive posture in propaganda war so that others can be demoralized and stopped from pointing out the real evil which is england. That is why amnesty international is one armour of the british lies to exploit the rest of the world. Amnesty international must be ignored and an independent human watchdog (which england will simply ignore) created. One purpose of amnesty international is to create an atmosphere for hatred towards the would be victims of british exploitation so that a victim could be blamed to have deserved the consequences. That is why ,now amnesty international sometimes threatens China, sometimes India and etc.

Mrs Margaret Thatcher, Britain's so called iron Lady, refused to receive the Dalai Lama visit in'87.

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Greedy British bully bigot
Posted by: HughScott on May 24, 2008 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hitchens has made himself wealthy by belittling one of the most important aspects of poor people's lives -- their religion.

What's next on his greedy cruel agenda: taking away their food?

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» Hitchens = Drunk ?? Posted by: zipper696
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Don't quite follow what colinmeister & lector's problems with this article are.
Posted by: Squarehead on May 24, 2008 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't quite follow what colinmeister & lector's problems with this article are. Or at least not as they indicate. Why defend the execrable hate writing of whoever engages in it? And it is hate writing. There is a long continuum of this identification of 'enemy', of demonization of the different. It makes them so much easier to kill. The alternative, open, generous acceptance of difference is the dichotomy of left- progressive versus right- bigot.

Now I don't want to therefore engage in a counter-demonization of the Tory, or the wealthy or whatever; but I can see that hate writing in general is both depressing (at the level of what does one do with these shits?) and dangerous, because quite large numbers of humans are prone to hatred of the different.

The past 100 years gives spectacular example of where this leads, but the centuries before were different only because it was not technically possible (or easy) to kill the 'enemy' in quantity.
[So in the 20th century, The Germans, Europeans in general against other Europeans (Jews); The Turks against Armenians, the Left authoritarians against 'class enemies'; the Hutu against the Tutsi; the events in Cambodia, the activity of the USA against uppity people of all shades of skin color and opinion. Not the exhaustive list; the briefest taster.]

Therefore, the hate writers have to be opposed at all times, at every opportunity. The US based ones are, in a philosophical way, part of Rove's manipulation of US (and world) opinion and politics. They are EXTREMELY BAD for your health.

Can I add that 'some of my best friends are Tory' (No really, they are); but I feel the greatest contempt (and indeed, hatred) for those others who foment dissension and hatred. And when I read 'Islamo-fascist' I know where that person stands. They are not exactly a shining example of enlightenment thinking. Mark Steyn was mentioned; a most poisonous little shit. I still recall his oblique racist allusions in writing about Latin America. Fortunately, he is no longer published in my newspaper of choice (The Irish Times, Dublin) so I don't come across him recently; my mind feels healthier because of that.

An apposite passage from above:
"Tory discourse has only two topics: hatred of the new and foreign, and grief for the old and familiar. The object of its hatred changes its name from generation to generation, from Papist to Jew to Irish to German to Russian to Arab; but the methods used to vilify the currently demonized alien are remarkably stable over the generations. Every device Amis uses to vilify Arabs and Muslims can be found, aimed at other targets, in Tory literature going back several decades."

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» RE: labeling Posted by: Quannah
» RE: labeling Posted by: Quannah
» RE: labeling Posted by: Lauren
» RE: labeling crypto fascist Posted by: whealeydj
thse british are not against the muslims-they are agasint anyone who refuses thier hegemony.
Posted by: avatar_singh on May 24, 2008 7:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at the support by the british to the muslims terrorist organisation s int he chechneya and other placesor even in albania.
april 2007 ---

"starroute said...

" I also noticed that reference in the French documents to Chechen rebels -- and what it immediately reminded me of was not Feith's and Perle's adventures, but Peter Dale Scott's "The Global Drug Meta-Group."

I've never felt I've fully understood Scott's article, bit as a result I get something new out of it every time I look at it. In this case, what jumped out at me was these paragraphs:

(The goal of splitting up Russia attributed here to Surikov is that which, in an earlier text co-authored by Surikov, is attributed by Russian "radicals" to the United States:

The radicals believe that the US actively utilizes Turkish and Muslim elements....From Azerbaijan, radicals foresee a strategic penetration which would irrevocably split the Federation. US influence would be distributed to the former Soviet Central Asian Republics, to Chechnya and the other North Caucasus Muslim autonomous republics of T[at]arstan and Bashkortostan. As a result Russian territorial integrity would be irreparably compromised.) . . .

In my conclusion I shall return to the possibility that U.S. government might share common goals with Hizb ut-Tahrir and the meta-group in Russia, even while combating the Islamist terrorism of al-Qaeda in the Middle East and the West.

Most major media outlets have spelled out with a profusion of details the "exact" events that led to the death of what some claim to have been hundreds of people in the eastern Uzbekistan town of Andijan on May 13. Led by British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, the world media condemned much-maligned Uzbekistan President Islam Karimov for yet another bloody and ruthless suppression of "public dissent". Yet, all the details so far provided do not explain who the real players were or their end objectives.

It is certain, however, that the puzzle cannot be solved unless the London factor is understood. The answers lie in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Liverpool. The old British colonial establishment, with former intelligence officer Bernard Lewis as its mentor, appears to have set in motion a series of events that will bring endless bloodshed to Central Asia. London's objective would appear to be to keep both China and Russia under an open-ended threat. At this point, there is no one who can better serve this "Lewis Doctrine" than Muslims nurtured in Britain - the Hizbut-Tehrir (HT). . . .

Apart from various Islamic preachers, two major Islamic groups function in the Ferghana Valley, whose common objective is to change the regimes in Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Kazakhstan. These are the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) and the HT. While the IMU openly thrives on violence, the HT is strongly promoted by the United Kingdom, where it is headquartered, as peaceful. But records indicate that that the IMU and the HT work hand-in-hand. Most of the IMU recruits are from the HT, according to Rohan Gunaratna, an expert on world terrorist outfits. Gunaratna claims that Khaled Sheikh Muhammad, the alleged mastermind of the September 11, 2001, terror attacks in the US, and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian of Chechen origin who has remained active in the Iraqi insurgency against the US occupying forces, were both once members of the HT. . . .

The West's policy - in other words, the policy of the Anglo-Americans, as the European Union does not have a policy worth citing - toward the Middle East has long been formulated by Bernard Lewis. The British-born Lewis started his career as an intelligence officer and has remained in bed with British intelligence ever since. Avowedly anti-Russia and pro-Israel, Lewis reaped a rich harvest among US academia and policymake

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British assault on america revisited.
Posted by: avatar_singh on May 24, 2008 7:55 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This review appears in the February 23, 2007 issue of Executive Intelligence Review.
BOOK REVIEW
Britain's Assault on America Revisited

by Jeffrey Steinberg

The Anglo-American Establishment
by Carroll Quigley
New York City: Books in Focus, Inc., 1981
354 pages, paperback

Professor Carroll Quigley (1910-1977), the noted Georgetown University historian, completed the writing of The Anglo-American Establishment sometime during the late 1940s. Yet the book was never published until 1981, four years after the author's death. Since the publication was delayed for more than 30 years, it is not at all inappropriate to publish a review of this important work 26 years after its first publication. In fact, one would be hard-pressed to find a more useful moment to review this invaluable account of the British oligarchy's assault on the United States.

Since the inauguration of George Bush and Dick Cheney in January 2001, the United States has been under relentless attack from within. Many a sage Bush-Cheney critic has observed that the current Administration has done more damage to the United States than any foreign enemy could ever inflict. From the Iraq War, to the looming preemptive attack on Iran, to the collapse of the physical economy, to the disintegration of conditions of life for the vast majority of the lower 80% income brackets, and the assault on Constitutional rights, the Bush-Cheney Administration has successfully turned most of the world against the United States, and turned millions of Americans against their own elected government—and against the very idea of government acting on behalf of the general welfare.

Yet few critics, with the exception of Lyndon LaRouche, have raised the specter of a foreign hand behind the Bush-Cheney wrecking operations. This is largely explained by the fact that the vast majority of Americans, including within the political class, have lost a true sense of history. They perceive the consequences of the government's actions from the more limited standpoint of relatively near-term cause and effect, or from the vantage point of a specialist's limited historical lens. Moreover, they all generally accept the false notion that the British hand in world affairs has been vastly reduced, and that the impulse towards empire has been abandoned or suppressed, due to England's "diminished" condition. One need only read the inserted special report in the Feb. 3, 2007 edition of the Economist to recognize that the City of London is now celebrating "another British imperial moment," centered around the successful promulgation of yet another devastating myth: that globalization is an irreversible, driving force in world economic and political affairs.

It is in this context that the present review of the Quigley book is written. For what Professor Quigley recounts, with impeccable documentation, is a more than 100-year assault upon the American Constitutional republic by a conspiracy of leading British imperialists, who saw the survival of the British Empire in apocalyptic terms: Either the United States would be coopted back under London domination, or the Empire would crumble. Based on this assessment, a tight-knit group of leading British oligarchs launched a series of projects, aimed at recasting the British Empire as a "Commonwealth of Nations" and drawing the United States, forever, back into the fold.

The project documented by Professor Quigley, involved the philosophical assault on the American republican outlook, and the gradual establishment of an alternative ideology, based on the "Anglo-American" or "English-speaking" vision of the world. This so-called "Anglo-American" vision was, in fact, the outlook of the Venetian Party of Anglo-Dutch bankers and aristocrats, who believed in world government, under the control of a tiny elite. That this is the antithesis

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Disregard this article
Posted by: ciccio on May 24, 2008 7:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We're not told what the friend was doing on their turf.
When I hit that sentence, I stopped reading. That is precisely the reason that anti-Islamic feelings are rising in England. For the writer of this article to accept that a bunch of Pakistani hooligans somehow have the right to carve out their turf in the middle of an English town implies acceptance of such practices. It also suggests that it is OK not to integrate into society, that building their own little ghettos , a surefire
way to promote racism, is something we should accept and respect.
As we have seen from the tenor of this article, not accepting this automatically labels you a racist xenophobe.

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» RE: Disregard this article Posted by: Quannah
» RE: you're kidding, right? Posted by: Quannah
english media interefrence in american eelctions.
Posted by: avatar_singh on May 24, 2008 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
america is less of anglosaxon but the english have manipulated the system to make it anglosaxon dominated so that other whites are just italian americans or irish americans eexcept when the election comes then the whites become one agasint the non whites .

It the same english media which does propaganda on behalf of biggest drug dealer in the world-B.A.T. And it is the same English sympathisers in States and English Govt. which brought about civil war in America to protect drug (tobacco) interests in U.S. It is the same B.B.C. which opposed in 1988 the sanctions against apartheid South Africa saying it will hurt British jobs. IT openly violated U.N.O. resolutions against South Africa for british interests. Such british interests must be destroyed as it is based on inhuman practices. In fact in the 1988 American election B.B.C. had invited the chief drug dealer of bat (who of course is an englishman) and there was another American there. During discussion of Ducassis' candidature the B.B.C. anchor man suggested to the American that the opponent of bush was hardly an American as he looked to dark and was Greek, the country of geek being too much near Africa. It really happened. This shows a few things. According to B.B.C. not only Blacks were not American but also all those who the english agents have labelled ethnic Americans. In fact B.B.C. openly said (in that program-usually B.B.C. does not reveal its evil intention so easily) that the American means actually anglo-saxons. Don't confuse that it includes Germans either. The same English agents (in America) who created a monstrous film like ``birth of nation`` are the same people who crated prohibition only because many German immigrants were drinking bear and they did not like it. It is the same england sympathiser crowd who went on killing blacks, Irish,
etc -
British propaganda against Europeans races-- The same crowd who pushed U.S.A. Into both World Wars because otherwise England would have lost. It is the same crowd who asked for tough immigration measures against foreigners but have given free reign to English people to come to u.s.a. and work theatre without visa requirement. Those restricted against (from other foreign countries) are not only much more highly qualified specialists in their field but also they have much better standard of living than the English people who come to States. Those foreigners are mostly from elite school and are educated up to Ph.D. level while these english people are all non- PhDs. and almost all school failed. Very few of these english people are university educated. In fact England is a nation of plumbers and fitters. It is a progression from piracy and shop keeping. It shows in their accent that almost all of english immigrants to states are from plumber and fitter class. But they pose otherwise. they have created an accent only to show to Americans that they can sometimes Talk posh but it is a put on. actually they become posh only after they have milked America and taken jobs which would otherwise have gone to Americans. Besides their so called posh themselves have graduated from Pirates-turned _so called gentleman class. The upper class of England always have been pirate cum shopkeeper class. England never had aristocracy in the same the word aristocrat means. Aristocracy is in Italy, in Spain, In Germany, in France and other European nations. But the one country -england which never had true aristocracy talks a lot about that to impress Americans. Example-in all European countries There is a word to describe a lower member( let us say a starting point) of aristocracy-A Man who is mounted on a horse. Chevalier in French and Caballero in Spanish means exactly that. A man on horse. So is it in all European languages. but not in english. The equivalent word knight is not derived from horse

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» OOPS! Wrong Author! Posted by: WWMD
Equal Opportunity....
Posted by: CatDad on May 24, 2008 9:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Right LOVES to recruit people of all races, creeds and nationalities to spew its venom.... Andrew Sullivan (a Brit and also a gay man) was given prominence in the mainstream media because of his advocacy of invading Iraq in 2003.

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» RE: qual Opportunity.... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: qual Opportunity.... Posted by: Lector
» RE: Really? Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Please define "well-read" Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: qual Opportunity.... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: qual Opportunity.... Posted by: Lector
» afterthought Posted by: Lector
» RE: qual Opportunity.... Posted by: Lauren
» RE: qual Opportunity.... Posted by: Lauren
» RE: qual Opportunity.... ps Posted by: Lauren
Sure It's The British Wot Done It
Posted by: opmoc on May 24, 2008 10:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of the stuff written here - both in the article - and the posts is patently absurd.

Following the initial pathetic article criticising authors who as well as writing some decent stuff also write a load of garbage gleaned sat in their ivory towers somewhere probably in America - just demonstrates not only political and racial prejudice - but completely non-objective analysis.

LaRouche considering he is so ancient can still spin quite a convincing story and some of the stuff he says is very close to the truth. But I see he has now switched the focus of his attack from the label rich Zionist Jews - to its the British wot done it.

You can blame the loonies in the Whitehouse on the British if you like but I think 99.999% would say they are sod all to do with us.

Rather than spending any more time discussing this bizzarre fantasy view I'll get back to reading a much more accurate and incisive book from someone who actually left his ivory tower and trvelled the World to find out first hand his view of what exactly is going on

Globalistan by Pepe Escobar

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Chemical Dumbing Down of America - With Music From The British Pink Floyd
Posted by: opmoc on May 24, 2008 11:32 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLYrSfnsqb0

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Really?
Posted by: daniel1982 on May 24, 2008 3:01 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whatever you may think of Hitchens, he's no hate-monger. Come on be serious.

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» RE: Really! Posted by: dkm
» RE: eally! Posted by: daniel1982
POME's
Posted by: dkm on May 24, 2008 3:05 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What the author is describing is a characteristic attribute of POME's, not necessarily of the Tories. Racial hatred, either expressed openly or hidden in oblique references, defines what a POME is all about, just ask anyone who lives in any part of the former British Empire.

The ones with less erudition are blatant about their feelings toward wogs, but those who have a bit more education are able to disguise their feelings under a blanket of verbiage. They merely exhibit the British penchant for dry wit that leaves the victim castrated, unless, of course, the victim comes from the same literary background and can respond in kind. Here in America we don't have that same background so when we see it, we are impressed, which explains how the POME transplants have been able to pollute our culture with their impotent hatred of nonBrits.

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Xenophobia?
Posted by: pelican on May 24, 2008 3:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Doth the pot call the kettle black?

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Thankyou, John Dolan
Posted by: David/Daoud on May 24, 2008 4:11 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John, this article has been the perfect antidote for the first chapter of American Fascists by Chris Hedges entitled Faith, which I have just finished reading (barely). If only Mr. Hedges would grow some of your wonderful wit !

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Did I Miss the Discussion of Hitchens?
Posted by: Drume on May 24, 2008 4:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where was it? I thought there'd be more....

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how the british have played racists card in america-including in elections.
Posted by: avatar_singh on May 24, 2008 5:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It the same english media which does propaganda on behalf of biggest drug dealer in the world-B.A.T. And it is the same English sympathisers in States and English Govt. which brought about civil war in America to protect drug (tobacco) interests in U.S. It is the same B.B.C. which opposed in 1988 the sanctions against apartheid South Africa saying it will hurt British jobs. IT openly violated U.N.O. resolutions against South Africa for british interests. Such british interests must be destroyed as it is based on inhuman practices. In fact in the 1988 American election B.B.C. had invited the chief drug dealer of bat (who of course is an englishman) and there was another American there. During discussion of Ducassis' candidature the B.B.C. anchor man suggested to the American that the opponent of bush was hardly an American as he looked to dark and was Greek, the country of geek being too much near Africa. It really happened. This shows a few things. According to B.B.C. not only Blacks were not American but also all those who the english agents have labelled ethnic Americans. In fact B.B.C. openly said (in that program-usually B.B.C. does not reveal its evil intention so easily) that the American means actually anglo-saxons. Don't confuse that it includes Germans either. The same English agents (in America) who created a monstrous film like ``birth of nation`` are the same people who crated prohibition only because many German immigrants were drinking bear and they did not like it. It is the same england sympathiser crowd who went on killing blacks, Irish,
etc -
British propaganda against Europeans races-- The same crowd who pushed U.S.A. Into both World Wars because otherwise England would have lost. It is the same crowd who asked for tough immigration measures against foreigners but have given free reign to English people to come to u.s.a. and work theatre without visa requirement. Those restricted against (from other foreign countries) are not only much more highly qualified specialists in their field but also they have much better standard of living than the English people who come to States. Those foreigners are mostly from elite school and are educated up to Ph.D. level while these english people are all non- PhDs. and almost all school failed. Very few of these english people are university educated. In fact England is a nation of plumbers and fitters. It is a progression from piracy and shop keeping. It shows in their accent that almost all of english immigrants to states are from plumber and fitter class. But they pose otherwise. they have created an accent only to show to Americans that they can sometimes Talk posh but it is a put on. actually they become posh only after they have milked America and taken jobs which would otherwise have gone to Americans. Besides their so called posh themselves have graduated from Pirates-turned _so called gentleman class. The upper class of England always have been pirate cum shopkeeper class. England never had aristocracy in the same the word aristocrat means. Aristocracy is in Italy, in Spain, In Germany, in France and other European nations. But the one country -england which never had true aristocracy talks a lot about that to impress Americans. Example-in all European countries There is a word to describe a lower member( let us say a starting point) of aristocracy-A Man who is mounted on a horse. Chevalier in French and Caballero in Spanish means exactly that. A man on horse. So is it in all European languages. but not in english. The equivalent word knight is not derived from horse

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British play to divide americans through so called whiteness while they mean only anglosaxons of the
Posted by: avatar_singh on May 24, 2008 5:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
from--- Racism, Wealth and IQ
The Heart of Whiteness

By MANUEL GARCIA, Jr. in http://www.counterpunch.org/garcia04212007.html of 22nd april,2007.

"Since the days of Columbus, Pan-Whiteness has used technology (primarily explosives) and piracy (now called finance) to steal world resources, and enslave and exterminate "colored" people. "High" I.Q. is merely a developmental indicator of race-based physical plundering by their elders and ancestors in the children of the Race Warriors of the White Supremacy Crusade.

The religious core of capitalism is white supremacy, which is why the nations mentioned are bonded so tightly, and why the U.S. Government will often pursue policies vis-a-vis Israel that logically seem to be at odds with "U.S. interests" (e.g., the pursuit, with U.S. casualties, of war with Iraq and Iran, not just for oil but in Israel's interest). It may be objectively true that a particular policy (e.g., bankrolling Israel's theft of Palestine -- "settlements" -- backing Israel's stonewalling and aggression (e.g., Lebanon) and blocking U.N. and international efforts to settle the Palestinian issue) seems more to Israel's benefit than to "us." But, when viewed through the emotive religious-mythical lens of white supremacy, the apparent inconsistency dissolves.

"We" are defending our brother and sister "white" settlers in "Injun country." Israel, like our military bases and corporate installations around the world, is one of our many Fort Apaches in wild territory, filled with "colored" natives hostile to our manifest destiny to clear them off and "develop" the land. At best, they could work as sub-human machines in our agricultural and mechanized plantations, while being slowly ground down to dust and thence to disappearance behind "Separation Walls" (which actually encircle isolated populations, and so are corrals with machine gun towers -- slow motion Buchenwalds), and Border Fences and Free Trade Agreements.

The core basis of U.S. Government and capitalist policy is the protection of White Supremacy Nationalism and White Supremacy Super-Nationalism, or Empire. This is what we are fighting for. "We", the United States, are the 7th Cavalry, the Crusaders riding to the rescue of Pan-Whiteness around the world. The nature of your life and the degree of your prosperity is determined by the degree of your complicity in this cult. People like Bush and Rove and Cheney, Olmert, Sharon, the Israeli Zionist militarists, and, yes, Hitler was and are not simply motivated by elementary greed, because theft is an act of convenience, a short-cut, a matter of avoiding work. These zealots are tireless, working furiously even to the point of death, because they are motivated by a greed of religiously-inspired magnitude, and this is the compelling vision -- the cult -- of white supremacy."
and by "colored" commentators(like manmohan singhs,kamal naths, chadambaran and most of toilet peper of india ilk like premshamker jha and vir sanghvi like treacherous dogs!) singing the praises of their "white" overlords, the overlord ideology and the naturally ordained baseness of their own genetic pools. I, personally, know the costs in career and "earnings potential" that can result from a rejection of work "assignments" ("opportunities") in furtherance of the fundamental cause (the "Prime Directive," if you will). Fortunately for me, self respect is only expensive financially, in every other way it is most bountiful.

It is possible that an expanding awareness of self respect -- even a popular trans-national solidarity based on compassion (Fidel?, Chavez?, Mandela?) -- may ultimately topple the mighty military and financial powers of the White Supremacy Tribe. Until then, we will have to consider civilization an idea as yet unrealized.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

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When an english maid got away with murder in america-thanks to BBCC propaganda
Posted by: avatar_singh on May 24, 2008 6:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SEPTEMEBR, 1997.




Exploitation of U.S.A. by England and her Agents.

The recent case of an English servant( au pair) by name of miss Woodward being convicted of man-slaughter of an American baby of American parents and yet allowed to walk away Scot free highlights those who did not realize earlier) the complete hold of England and her agents on the affairs of U.S.A. The same english media and her agents in America were doing free propaganda for the girl and even before and after the trial were declaring the convicted girl innocent. It is the same media (B.B.C. And others of same punk types) who have all through last 15 years been doing propaganda against Blacks, Hispanic and what not, and have fully pushed for tough measures against drug takings on the basis that with drug scare a lot of Blacks would be (and have been) put behind bar for more than 15 to 20 years on trumped up charge of possessing !5 dollars worth of Hassis. It is the same British (more specifically english) media and peoples who are pro-capital punishment (as long as victims are non-english) , pro hard line policing( only against non-english peoples), more pro tobacc0,more pro rotten british beef, more pro big british business( but anti-foreigners` business-whiplash against Japanese ownership of a few American concerns but complete silence of American firm being hostile way being taken by british and Canadian firms is one example), more pro pollution, more anti-environment, very pro-english financial institutions` hold on world economy (but against European finance getting strong--anti-European Single currency is for that reason), very anti-cultured( they call it pragmatism) and very anti-foreign countries (Usa, Canada, and Australia excepted as these are regarded by English press as their colony( they call it across the pond, or english backwater))), very anti-blacks, anti-whites of Europe, anti non anglo saxon whites of America and even anti-Scottish
British media--racist-- (BBC was giving vehement
propaganda against Scottish devolution). BBC even suggested that Wales referendum peoples who lost referendum (i.e. english sympathisers in Wales) should revolt against Wales referendum result). These all characteristics you find daily in and out in programmes of BBC, independent channels, satellite english channel, all enlish papers. there is no difference between tabloids and broadsheets in England ,they all are owned, produced, edited, written and read and edited by low life forms). In fact what they try to project to others especially Americans is exactly opposite of what they actually. They deride other cultural things (like French) but would try to impress Americans as torch bearer of culture. In fact in name of pragmatism ( really meaning slimy, low life) they deride all cultural things. They are hardly musical but would make the most of commercial success out of music. In fact when German style techno music started getting popular, because it would eat away british music industry’s carefully orchestrated profit and also because money would probably go to foreign bands, the BBC and all english media started orchestrated propaganda against that music scene falsely claiming that it was full of antisocial elements consuming drugs and doing crimes. That is how the techno music scene was killed in Britain. That propaganda was worse than Soviet propaganda against pop music. That is how one never hears of excellent pop girl group Tic-Tac while
British media-propaganda machine of english race-- BBC and all british media have done full steam propaganda to popularise the names of rubbish pop group like Oasis and spice girls. In fact the English race is only good in propaganda and the sale which results from it. But they would like Americans to believe that they are original thinkers and others steal their ideas-

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Middle Ground
Posted by: AlexLawyer on May 24, 2008 6:44 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is surely some reasonable middle ground between the extremes of racist, xenophobic religious bigotry and reality-denying assertion that we are all the same. While it is true that the Old Testament (Tanakh) contains some pretty vile stuff, it's also true that very, very few Christians or Jews advocate, much less practice, things such as capital punishment for adultery.

In the Muslim world, however, honor killings, female genital mutilation, domestic violence, forced marriage of young girls to older men, vicious repression of women, violent persecution of other faiths and many other practices at odds with our conception of human rights are widespread. These are, according to Koran and Hadith, divinely decreed for all times and places.

While more benign interpretations of Islam are possible, they are rare today. This does not mean that we should persecute or discriminate against Muslims, but we deceive ourselves at our peril if we fail to recognize and deal with vital issues.

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» RE: Prove it Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» RE: Wow, how odd Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Wow, how odd Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Prove it Posted by: AlexLawyer
» RE: Thanks for providing this report Posted by: Liz Gallager
» RE: Middle Ground Posted by: Lauren
HOw britian got hold of america after indepence and never left .
Posted by: avatar_singh on May 24, 2008 6:52 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How britain got hold on america after american independence-- --- This all started soon after Napoleonic war when in 1816 to 1817 The english again attacked america in her southern flanks and the day was saved only because of some French navy mercenaries and French speaking population of Louisiana and such states along with non-english origin americans. But the english invaders infiltrated among that population of Southern america which today calls itself bible belt (whose god has always been english royalty and who worship only stolen money).By 1850 to 1860 England attacked erstwhile friend (in Napoleonic war) Russia in Crimea along with erstwhile foe (now controlled by unpopular english stooge) France.-how the same pattern is so predictable in case of this intrusive, cancerous exploitative race called english and anglo saxons. At that very time England was actively supporting the slave exploitation, in fact all the big plantation owners were english derived and they owned loyalty not to flag of United states of america but to England. -in other words they were agents of foreign country who wanted to keep south america occupy as foreign power again. The civil war in america was not only supported with money and arms by england but rather england was the instigator of american civil war in order to keep whole of america enslaved and if not possible at least those parts (South) where it could call upon filial loyalty. It was truly a war of race-not against whites and blacks but against anglo saxons versus blacks, Irish, other European peoples .The same would be repeated in future. The confederacy was a traitor to america-a british agents; but ironically that same confederacy flag today is being propagandised by their descendents as symbol of american independence and patriotism. Having lost the proxy war england resorted to the one thing it specialises-terrorism and misinformation. Abraham Lincoln was murdered by the person very sympathetic to british cause. (against Napoleon england had sent several terrorist squads-that is why Napoleon had to declare Himself an Emperor to maintain the clear line of succession to protect glorious French Revolution). It is very interesting that most of the american presidents assassinated were those whom England did not want being elected. By the end of civil war ,instead of disinfranchasising the british supporters (of southern states) and taking away their land or at least redistributing evenly the stolen land, the american govt. was persuaded by britain to spare them and let those southern traitors keep all the stolen land so that drug (tobacco) and cotton would be of assured supply to england. Of course by that time because of fall of Napoleon (brought about not by military might but by conspiracy to embroil the Europeans among each other( conspiracy hatched in London-that was the only english contribution to napoleons' fall-forget waterloo where Austrians and Prussians had contributed most militarily):consequently england got free reign to exploit the rest of the world and amassed wealth. With that new loot the english shopkeepers started not only factory but also bought titles (Always a purchasable item in england) and started giving themselves high sounding titles and names. With that they started the rumour that english people had class and aristocracy and america could rub some off it if it was willing to ply right and play right. During that period england started propaganda of herself being friend of america though in britain news it hardly gave any importance to americans except with contempt. When the first world war came, england had already infiltrated in the american decision making process.( Though some of southern traitors had fled to Canada, most had remained to slowly spread their cancerous tentacles tn American govt. The first world war had been started by england to destroy Germany and Russia at the same time. England had got envious of germane prosperity .

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I say old bean..this is rather silly..
Posted by: BlueGorilla on May 24, 2008 6:59 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this whole thread has lost perspective here..perhaps it could be called "The English are vile evil and responsible for everything bad ever".
Christopher Hitchens ,a complex character,has been reduced to a one dimensional slavvering villian,and then dismissed from the debate completely.
Now ,I must put my cards on the table,I am English,a democratic-socialist and a strong opponent of the Iraq war.
I think,that it is clear that the British Empire was an abomination governed by exploitation.However the British were not alone in that..as the Spanish,Germans,Dutch (who left the legacy of Apartheid via the Boers ,in South Africa),Portugal,Belgium etc were all involved in a ruling class grab for land,wealth,materials etc.
I think,when people,pinpoint one country,it runs the risk,of ignoring the economic world currents.For instance,Globalisation,capitalism etc are economic forces which know no boundaries.The elites who profit,use patriotism for their own purposes..ie to whip up the masses into a war frenzy,to pursue aims which benefit only the ruling classes..but in reality,they know no country.For instance,US capitalism got good returns from Nazi Germany..even while Germany were supposed enemies of the US.
I am also uncomfortable, with the anti-semitic element of some postings on here.These seem to point to a Jewish elite,pulling strings,for their own ends.That is one, dangerous claim to make..and we know where it led in the 30s and 40s.
This again demonstrates a misunderstanding of capitalism,which is an economic system,whose beneficiaries are not located within any one race or culture.The accumalation of wealth and power,at the expense of others,is practised brutally by Europeans,Asians,Arabs and anyone else who gets their hands on the means of production..
Now moving onto the Tories.There are several distinct,but not mutually exclusive branches of toryism.These range from 1)Conservatisism,which is defined by a desire to hold onto traditions,class priviliges,class status and power,and the social positions,which are based on birth..not work or merit.The idiotic royal family are beloved by these conservatives.
The other branch of toryism,is neo-liberalism,a belief in rampant and unfettered free markets..Admiration of America's right wing,is prevalent amongst freemarket ideologues.According to this logic,the state should be miniscule,and the market be left to accumalate wealth...Neo-liberals detest the welfare state,and all other gains by the British people/working class,in the 19th and 20th centuries.
Thatcher had a twisted beleif in both strands of toryism..which could be described as the conjoining of the market with increased state control(ie more police powers,particularly to stop union activity,and to deal with the rising discontent created by unemployment,crumbling welfare services,rising poverty etc).
Really though,both strands are based on,control of society, and accumalation of wealth/power for the haves, at the expense of the have nots.
Hitchens definitely not a tory,though like Amis,he has moved rightwards,since their days, at the helm,of The New Statesman..a once influential, left wing magazine.

As for the accents of evil.Well Amis and Hitchen's are both posh and privileged,they don't have regional accents,and they conform to the US's ridiculous stereotype, of what English people speak like.This is always either a cockney (Dick Van Dyke.."Gor Blimey,i loves you Mary Poppins)or a private school ponce.
America seems to allow itself to be seduced,by this cut glass accent..and falls for the idea that this portrays intelligence.To most Brits,this accent portrays,foppish snobbery.

I agree,that many American's should,stop falling for this rubbish..and get a passport and do a bit of travelling..maybe find out a bit more.
This (privileged)class of Brits,usually talk out of their a@*&.

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Minor, no MAJOR gripe here
Posted by: dbarber on May 25, 2008 12:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The New Yorker,"America's most venerable literary magazine"???

Excuse me?

Ever heard of a little mag called HARPERS? You know, the one that people like David Foster Wallace and Jonathan Franzen both publish exerpts of their novels in BEFORE the novels have even been PUBLISHED?!! The one that's been published since 1850?

Not to mention, was there any reason to bring Morrisey into your Anti-Tory screed? While there has been controversy about certain comments he has made, when opportunity has been made he has explicitly expressed himself as anti-fascist, anti-racist, anti-Thatcher, and anti-Bush. Hardly the standard Tory position.

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sick
Posted by: Lauren on May 25, 2008 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was thinking of all this as a conspiracy. I was thinking my husband probably listened to that radio guy(s) and got all pumped up against me, women in general. That would partly explain why he would come home so nasty.

I got about to the end of the first page and suddenly had to get up and be sick. That is the first time in my life I ever threw up over something I read. I've read a lot of nasty stuff, but never about the media players in my own ruin. Jeff hardly ever watched TV. It was the first time I really understood the connection, how it raped me. I had to be sick, I couldn't stop it.

So when I read this, below, I thought it was time to comment.

A 3-year-old girl tortured to death by being tied in a sack with drugged vermin, screaming like "a boiling kettle" -- some might call this the sickest child porn they've ever read, but the New Yorker, America's most venerable literary magazine, saw fit to publish it.

The New Yorker is a magazine my husband reads. Not me.

It was a conspiracy with them to convince us all torture was OK. I am a victim of that conspiracy. I have a sticky on the wall for the charges I think should be held against these people,

Conspiracy to commit torture and child abuse.

Now you see why I felt I had to comment, the magazine he believed, the shock jocks he believed. Me, a small light in the wilderness, he did not believe. I kept telling him his lack of faith in me was killing me. He did not see it, he tried to snuff it out. I felt like Tinkerbelle, except I was really just a mom trying to raise three teenagers in a very hostile world.

I will go back to reading the rest of the article now. New Yorker, you are on my list.

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RE: Let me translate for you
Posted by: Squarehead on May 25, 2008 7:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, obviously all in the eye of the beholder.

For me, I like getting right to the point, ASAP. That is, I think, what Dolan does. His is the optimistic view of history, he does not like 'hate speech', whether by posh Brits or by anyone else.

I am completely with him on that.

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RE: Let me translate for you
Posted by: Quannah on May 25, 2008 8:28 AM   
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Franklin was an "Anglophobe"????

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RE: Let me translate for you - Franklin was not an Anglophobe!
Posted by: Quannah on May 25, 2008 11:10 AM   
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For your enlightenment, pheiffer999, Franklin lived in England a total of 17 years! And here's a little treasure in Franklin's own words to help you get it straight:

"...Despite the tensions, Franklin worked tirelessly toward reconciliation, in the process, attracting criticism from both sides. As Franklin said in a letter from the House in 1768, “being born and bred in one of the countries, and having lived long and made many agreeable connections of friendship in the other, I wish all prosperity to both sides; but I have talked and written so much and so long on the subject, that my acquaintance are weary of hearing, and the public of reading any more of it...as I do not find that I have gained any point in either country except that of rendering myself suspected for my impartiality; in England, of being too much an American, and in America of being too much an Englishman."

Hope this clears it up for you.

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RE: Let me translate for you
Posted by: Lauren on May 25, 2008 12:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The same tactic is often used with "misogynistic." Show a dearth of evidence of any word written or spoken against women, it matters not. Misogyny, like racism, is a sin that only the Inquisitor can detect. The rest of us have to trust them, and as penitents, be purified by pain.

Purified by pain? Or humbled by hubris?

Ever hear of the Ghost Dance? The Sun Dance?

Misogyny, like racism, is a sin that only the Inquisitor can detect.

Wow, it is almost lyrical.

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LukeN
Posted by: LukeN on May 25, 2008 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the American empire declines, a scapegoat must be found and the Tory boys are it, apparently, for John Dolan, although both Martin Amis and Christopher Hitchens received their baptism under Bush and 9-11. America is their conversion, not the Tories. The particular venom with which John Dolan attacks their 'Britishness' (as opposed to their writing) is as racist as anything he indicts them for. Dolan's cheap, populist shots to draw an audience into his anti-British bile are only that -- bile -- and nothing more instructive. America's failings have little to do either with plain speaking or falling for posh toffs. Electing W Bush the first time is one thing, since he was not really elected. But voting him in the second time is really unforgivable. The UK is an American colony and behaves that way. John Dolan is playing to the notion of the forever innocent American, easy prey to the wiles of jaded Europeans. As if! America has had to learn the hard way, as Britain did, that even the mightiest empire in the world can destroy itself if it believes its own propaganda. It has nothing to do with either Amis or Hitchens. They are not the big time gods that failed. They are only its lackeys.
Now the writer seems to be betting on Mr Putin. As Pt Barnum famously said: 'A sucker is born every day!'

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forward-looking statements
Posted by: Lauren on May 25, 2008 9:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I found this looking for marijuana printed fabric. Apparently that is one of those banned items that is hard to find on the internet. All I located was two other people also looking for it. Obviously I'm going to have to make some phone calls.

Meanwhile, I thought folks might be interested in the following disclaimer. If only the news media had a similar warning for us, maybe we would have thought twice about the Bush presidency before all these bad things happened and we wouldn't BE in this mess. Think if this warning had been applied to our media, government and the war. . .

Safe Harbor Statement

This press release, and other statements that American Apparel, Inc. may make, may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

Forward-looking statements are statements that are not historical facts and include statements regarding, among other things, the company's future financial condition and results of operations and the company's prospects and strategies for future growth. In some cases, you can identify forward-looking statements by words or phrases such as "trend," "potential," "opportunity," "believe," "comfortable," "expect," "anticipate," "current," "intention," "estimate," "position," "assume," "outlook," "continue," "remain," "maintain," "sustain," "seek," "achieve," and similar expressions, or future or conditional verbs such as "will," "would," "should," "could," "may" and similar expressions.

Such forward-looking statements are based upon the current beliefs and expectations of American Apparel's management, but are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results and/or the timing of events to differ materially from those set forth in the forward-looking statements.

American Apparel cautions that forward-looking statements are subject to numerous assumptions, risks and uncertainties, which change over time. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in forward-looking statements and future results could differ materially from historical performance.

The following factors, among others, (I cut a whole bunch) could cause actual results to differ from those set forth in forward-looking statements: business conditions, including risks associated with foreign markets, increases in materials or labor costs and employee matters; the company's relationships with its lenders and its ability to comply with the terms of its existing credit facilities; changing interpretations of generally accepted accounting principles; financial non-performance by the company's customers; inquiries and investigations and related litigation; continued compliance with U.S. and foreign government regulations; legislation or regulatory environments; requirements or changes adversely affecting the business in which the company is engaged; ; management of rapid growth; intensity of competition, both domestic and foreign; changes in key personnel; general economic conditions; increases in interest rates; geopolitical events and regulatory changes; as well as other relevant risks detailed in the other filings that the company makes with the Securities and Exchange Commission and available at www.sec.gov.

You are urged to consider these factors carefully in evaluating the forward-looking statements herein and are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such forward-looking statements, which are qualified in their entirety by this cautionary statement.

The forward-looking statements speak only as of the date on which they are made and the company undertakes no obligation to publicly update such forward-looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances.

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More Irratiional Demonization of Muslims Will Only Deepen The Rift, Induce More Conflict, Wars
Posted by: aamer923 on May 25, 2008 11:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author makes good points. It is fashionable and profitable to pile on Muslims and Islam nowadays. For starter, FOX would grant you an interview and many bigots would love your book. There are evil elements in the Muslim world. But there are evil elements in the "Western Civilization". But they are not equally capable of imposing their bad ideas on others. Ben Laden has camels and caves. The US has DU and cluster bombs. Tyranny, tribalism and sexism, plenty in the Muslim world, are not nice ideas. But neither is objectifying women, rampant glorification of profit and irresponsible sex and deteriorating social structure in the west. Granted, there are hateful people and psychopaths on both sides, hoping to bring down humanity to satisfy their egos, and their false sense of superiority, that is many muslims, christians and nonbelievers as well.
In the west, most of what we hear is aimed at dehumaizing Muslims, so that it is easy for the public to accept torture, colonialism and war ccrimes.

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On Martim Amis..
Posted by: krsierra on May 25, 2008 12:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When pulp-fiction trash does not sell any more what do you have to do to continue a low-life?

First have good look around and find out how the “Others” have managed!!

Simple, just copy and paste.

Well for start Salmon Rushdi, Chris Hitchen, Norman Podhoretz, Abraham H. Foxman, William Kristol, Donald Kagan…et al, they are all at it and have been successful and making a living!!( Look like a Zionists’ wedding list)…

Slowly the Americans are waking-up to the realities of events for the last 60-years or so.

Now, knowing how desperate the consolidated Zionists’ consortium of US, under the leadership of AIPAC, is for hate mongers, WHY NOT importing and sub-contracting some UK crap-writers to give them the “Good-feel” factor, for a time being and while it last!

And that is where our dear Amis comes in, grab a life-line until the next day and the next meal.
Have a good-day!!

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re "Importing British Racists to defend GOP agenda" - Terrific comment!
Posted by: vvvci on May 25, 2008 5:04 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a terrific comment! I have just been reading the amazing book, "SAXONS, VIKINGS, and CELTS" by geneticist Bryan Sykes.

I haven't even gotten to his meticulously researched genetic history of Britain and the British Isles, because for the first 50 pages (OK, I'm a slow reader) he details first the MYTH OF King ARTHUR and then the diametrically opposite MYTH of TEUTONIC Anglo-Saxon inate superiority."

What is amazing about Sykes discussion of these two (and several other competing) myths is their relevance to political science and current political discussion!

He points out how a populace is ALWAYS HUNGRY for a myth that AFFIRMS THEIR SUPERIORITY, whether against domestic or foreign enemies.

He points out how a myth can be demolished or inverted by... skillful and determined political leadership, as for example when King Henry VIII found it useful to ditch the Arthurian, Celtic legend in favor of the Teutonic, Saxon legend when he sought to break away from Rome (the Catholic Church and Pope.)

He points out that the prevailing "Teutonic (Anglo-Saxon) Superiority" myth was DITCHED by the British before and after WWI, when Germany grabbed on to the RACIST myth with even more ferocity than the British. (Whose writers had, in many cases, used the myth to urge the ETHNIC CLEANSING of Irish, Scots, Welsh, and others from the Kingdom!)
He even points out how the German "ARYAN" myth was developed by an English professor out of whole cloth, he later denounced it, but too late, the Germans (especially Nazis) had grabbed it and run with it.

And that all in the first 50 pages!
Of course, long before Mr. Sykes' examination, it is obvious that the English, Scots, Irish, Welsh, French, Spanish and other "White" Europeans hacked, massacred, and murdered each other with relish. The movies "Rob Roy" and "Braveheart" showed how murderous the British could be against their "savage" enemies.

But upon coming to America, the Brits, Scots, and Irish of course united against Native Americans and, especially in American South, against Black imported slaves.

Take away Blacks, Mexicans, Native Americans, or other "foreign" minorities as objects of hate, fear, scorn, and resentment, these groups would once again start going after each other - as the Hatfields and McCoys did (and Irish Catholics & Protestants still do).

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Hitchens?
Posted by: COhippie on May 25, 2008 6:57 PM   
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What's her knock against Hitchens? I didn't see him mentioned anywhere except the title and first paragraph.

Is it just because he wrote God is Not Great, which calls out Islam, along with all monotheism?

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We do Need our Scapegoats!
Posted by: sofla100 on May 25, 2008 8:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember, these guys have issues with the immigration of Muslims into the UK. Never mind, its really difficult to find a "terrorist" among any of the Muslims in Britain. The ones who attacked America, being from Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. However, we do need our scagegoats, don't we? Of course, Hitchens is most noted as a big apologist for the Iraq war (can he admit ever he was wrong?). But, how about admitting you were wrong to sanction the scapegoating of Arabs and Muslims, Hitchens? Do I hear the need to "keep Britain for the Brits?" And, of course, "the whiter the better." And hear we thought it was just America that had to get over some of this rubbish? But, in America its the Hispanics and "illegal immigrants," to blame for all of societies ills.

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And this is how one deconstructs bigots like Lector et al
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus on May 25, 2008 10:34 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I posted earlier, the one thing common among all bigots is that they are ignorant imbeciles because there is no place for reason, logic, facts, and basic moral values in bigotry.

For instance, in an earlier thread Bigot Lector claimed:
it took the British rulers 150 years to recapture the entire sub-continent back from Muslim rulers

Bigot Lector lifted the material from Islamphobe site: Islam-Watch.

In the Islamophobe article above, the original line states: The British rulers took almost 150 years to capture the entire sub-continent from the hands of its Muslim rulers

Ofcourse, being a bigot Lector didn't understand what was being plagiarized, so Lector inadvertently changed the line to: it took the British rulers 150 years to recapture the entire sub-continent back from Muslim rulers

What say you Lector et al? Still claim that you ain't a morally challeneged, ignorant imbecile?

We have caused the deaths of over 1.2 million Iraqis and made 4 million more refugees. The last thing we ought to be doing is finding "justifications" for killing more muslims and stealing their resources.

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» RE: don't waste your time Posted by: merav
» RE: don't waste your time Posted by: Lauren
WHO THE F$$K CARES, THIS COUNTRY IS NON-EXISTANT AND......
Posted by: Turiye on May 25, 2008 11:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....you persons and your love of the idea of being a wordsmith is confusing the needs in the USA immediately. Hitchens and the other person, whom I could care even less about (quite apparent since I don't even remember his name) are in an article in the evermore declining authors and pieces used on Alternet. WTF, Tory, Brit I care??? We have the Murderer in Chief and the EVIL DOER along with many minions doing end runs around the legislative and judiciary branches of our 3 tiered system of government, escalating the Executive branch into a rogue, lawless bunch of thugs and you give two sh##s about what the Brits do as compared to Carmen, me oxycontion por favor Limbaugh, O'really, Culter, all COMPLICIT MEDIA aka NYT, WaPo, ABC, CBS and every other I hate this old ass word MSM, the popular media, I'll say, and you F$$KING CARE ABOUT THIS NONSENSE????
It is nonsense, simply and directly, utter crap. 4,801 murdered troops, 1.3MN murdered Iraqis, troops redeployed up to 7 times just because, these troops have PTSD and TBI and they continue this odessey until these kids put a gun in their mouths. The VA doesn't care, the EVIL EMPIRE most assuredly could care lesser,(used lesser as typed because I damn well wanted to), along with pissing off the obfuscation of our deep seated decay in this Nation by more than enough Anglophiles to encourage many normal, humane activists to become monosyllabic and be grammatically incorrect in order to ensure I do not have to listen to some inane puff piece to avoid the truth. F$$K ENGLAND and their shit, we have enough going on and you all had better put your heads on straight, focus and behave accordingly to enable an end to this childish behavior used on a few alternative media sites to use the everyday media sites use of silence, they instead are using pieces that people have wasted more time on than have commented on the Gazans that are being Genocided, the daily provocation of anyone and everyone to attack Iran, so knock the shit off.
A Tory, SO???

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"blame the British, the Irish or whomever"
Posted by: GPFrank on May 26, 2008 9:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What an education: I didn't realize there is so much of the "blame the British" around.
First of all I don't understand all of this paranoia about the Tories, even though I don't see they have much to offer in the present era. Many prominent Parliamentarians such as Churchill and Gladstone.switched back and forth between the
Tories and the Liberals.

But with the masters of Globalism I see a kind of perverse internationalism in which the players will join the country most convenient
to their corner of the enterprise, including Israel.

Likewise, the Nutcase Right all pick out their
particular demons to hate. We are besieged by demons and demonology.

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All-time greatest Christopher Hitchens book review
Posted by: fanny666 on May 26, 2008 2:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Christopher Hitchens on Thomas Paine

Trust me, this is worth reading.

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try to understand how the english have misued the jews for their ends
Posted by: avatar_singh on May 26, 2008 5:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
very true -in fact so called jewish's lobby" power is a propaganda done by the english race to hide thier nefarious iterference in the american ploicy to uinflunce american domestic and foreing policy for the benefit of england.


1999.

how england has used jews for the benfit of english race only and for deliberatily creating disruption in Europe.

England had threatened israel in 1948 during israeli war of indepdence that england would use atom bomb agaisnt israel unless israel stop ddrowning royal air foarce palnes and pilots who were helping Jordan against israel.
the same england was in upsroar in july 1981 when isrea;l attakced iraq's nuclear reactor-just check out theier papers of the time
the same ngland was leading charge agasint isreal in june 82 when isreal attacked palestinain terrorists inside lebanon-that was at t time when england was in illegal occupation for malvinas island.
that is short glimpse of how much england and anglosaxon race care about jews and israel.
look at editorails of the times, the newsweek during those crucial perios of june 82 and see how they(the TImes, the gaurdian, BBC, ITV) were suggesting that israel or atleast tel aviv should be bombed.-just chek the british papers and bbc clips from april 82 to august 82.Also check those british bastrds joutrnlism hist in the month of summer 1981 when iraqi nuclear planty was bombed by the isralis and the british were the first-along with iraq -to protest agasint the israeli action.




It is very interesting that the same type of english people(who are anti-communists, anti-blacks, anti-muslims, anti-catolics) started the same sort of propaganda(like used against russians and communists) against The Germans.the Frenchs and Europeans in general. First England did not want germany united(though during cold war it suggested that only Russians are against it). soon after German reunification and even before disintegration of Soviet union ,England changed the lie-tactics(through media and government) against Europe. There is one more thing. nato was supposed to counter warsaw pact, with the latter gone there was no discussion as to nato should be wound uop or not. Europe does not need nato. Europe can have and should have her own defence system as is the Germo-Franco_Italian_Spanish collaboration. that European defence pact must be stengthened rather than germany supporting nato. Actually england needs nato to prop up its nasty influence in military matters. With the help of usa and nato has england been able to prop up her influence. In fact england is ant-Europe and through nato it wants to keep a tab on european affairs and not let Europe get strong on her own. As england can not do this own her own it has let America involved in it(during empire days england hardly shared power with America but it needs America now). Germany or Europe does not need nato. In fact nato is the greatest enemy(through england)of germany and europe. How can england be so much anti-Germany,working dso much against German interests and be a major parterner in common defence pact?It is a ludicrous situation. England manipulates financial market(in last8 years through recession and what not london market has risen 3 fold while far Eastern markets-who are the main producers of consumer goods-has fallen drastically.). That is why it pumped up the value of pound before joing european sustem-ofcourse it was unsustainable but for devaluation of pounds the Germans and some jews(as said by bbc) were blamed. As england does not want German or any other European country to get economically strong and be financially independent of london market, it opposed Single currency vehemently.Even a so called left-paper like Guardian was

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Tolerance, Courage and Skepticism
Posted by: AlexLawyer on May 26, 2008 7:05 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear Squarehead,

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Our brains are constructed, it seems, to see things in dichotomous terms: black or white, all or nothing, us or them, angel or demon. But the world doesn't work that way, and such thinking is the biggest cause of conflict.

Like you, I support the rights of all people of all faiths, races and genders; they should be free to live as they choose as long as they do not harm others in so doing. I fail to see how standing up for the rights of oppressed Muslim women is anti-Muslim. And I am also critical of the American radical redneck Republican religious right when it attempts to undermine women's rights, although it must be acknowledged that their repression is much less vicious and violent.

If an adult woman freely chooses to undergo genital mutilation, to stay at home, and to wear a burqa, that is her right. But it is also the right of a woman who does not so choose, even if she is a Muslim, to live according to her lights. Non-Muslim women should not be forced to follow customs that do not apply to them. There are a number of cases of Christian or other women being killed for not dressing to the Islamists' satisfaction.

Orthodox Jews do not attack others for eating pork or working on Saturday; they understand that their laws apply to them. Fundamentalists of the Christian and Muslim persuasion must do likewise and not try to force their personal strictures upon others. This means that others must be free to express themselves and explore issues in ways that they consider offensive or even blasphemous. The irony of issuing fatwas and death threats, citing Koran and Hadith, against those who criticize Islam as violent would be ludicrous if it were not so egregious.

The same applies to fundamentalist Christians who, without apparent irony, claim to be servants of the Prince of Peace and God of Love while killing innocent civilians in their hundreds of thousands and torturing (sometimes to death) prisoners of war.

The most necessary virtues for a civilized world are tolerance, courage and skepticism.

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» RE: Tolerance, Courage and Skepticism Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
Better Sources
Posted by: AlexLawyer on May 26, 2008 11:05 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I did not use those sources for my posts, but added them after a Google search when asked for references. I wasn't familiar with those sites, but in retrospect realize that they were not good choices.

I'm heartened that you appear to agree with all but one of my points, and have some scholarly references below that show that the vast majority of Egyptian women continue to have the procedure. It's disingenuous to claim that a seldom-enforced law proves that the practice is not carried out. There has been some debate about whether the Hadith authorizing the procedure is genuine, but Egyptian clerics, including those at the highly respect al Azhar, support it.
http://www.informaworld.com
/smpp/content~content=a713846799~db=all

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=Article
URL&_udi=B6T7M-3W2XP0R-D&_user=10&_rdoc=1
&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&
_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_
userid=10&md5=847070764d45b5bb6494371951e85f36

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science
?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VBF-44HTGB4-4
&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=
d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_
userid=10&md5=46e2b225671f9f0a802761532146e3d9

I apologize for the hasty, poor selection of the links in the prior post, and hope that these will correct your misperceptions.

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Astounding.
Posted by: warreno on May 27, 2008 9:19 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article claims to be a protest against racism and xenophobia, and is itself little more than bilious spew about how evil the British are.

Interesting too that, in the name of assaulting -isms, quite a few commenters here have also jumped on the Brit-bashing bandwagon.

Who are the real bigots in the room?

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just a thought
Posted by: DesertStone on May 27, 2008 12:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The preoccupation with sex is unsurprising given the man is British. British society having a history as uptight and restrictive has always had a reputation as a center of sexual deviance.

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» RE: martin amis Posted by: DesertStone
Thoughtful Dialogue vs Diatribe
Posted by: AlexLawyer on May 27, 2008 8:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All this vitriol and ad hominem verbiage are unhelpful. I never said that FGM is solely practiced by Muslims, nor that all Muslims practice it. I specifically called for fairness and nonviolence toward Muslims. Raising concerns and attempting rational discussion is not hatred.

If you are prepared to unequivocally condemn the practice, and the other human rights violations I mentioned, then we are in substantial agreement. I have also been vocal in my criticism of Christian, Jewish and Hindu behaviors that infringe on human rights, and of the theological underpinnings for these practices.

All religions and societies need open, unfettered and tolerant dialogues on important issues. Attempting to silence thoughtful critics, whether by overt violence, threats or unfounded allegations of bigotry are the cause, and not the solution, of the problems.

Just as I admire Carter's and Obama's more conciliatory stance, I believe that the true conflict is not between one faith or culture and others, but between the extremists on all sides who, despite their reciprocal hatred, are very much alike, and the moderate majority within all faiths and communities who are open to reason and finding common ground. It's a lethal error to permit the loudest and most strident voices to dominate the conversation.

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2.0
Posted by: talkville on May 29, 2008 12:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Take a look at a map of the world circa 1900 and you'll see what a devastating fall England has suffered. In 1900, most of the Tropics were colored British pink. Now all that's left is Britain itself, a wet little island."

Overlay a map of the USA's current activities in the foreign policy (military and economic) and one can discern the "inheritance" of the very same "defeated" racist-imperialist project undertaken by Mother so long ago. And Mother is by no means gone; she has merely taken up the position of Adviser and Ally to the Prodigal Son-- most especially in the realms of cultural, social and ideological struggle in general. Scratch a Conservative and a Monarchist will bleed or, maybe a Landed Gentleman or Squire maybe.

Kipling 2.0

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You made Mr Hitchens's day.
Posted by: 8 nontheist on May 31, 2008 3:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Damning Mr Hitchens, the ardent, atheist, apologist is a growing cottage industry. Mr Hitchens might find the blog & these comments interesting if he didn't have self-confidence. A writer must expect to have critics. Criticism is a tradition among those of us who use, read & write English. The words of this blog & the words of Messrs Amis & Hitchens may appear in an anthology or a rhetoric case book shortly. It may appear in a printed upon paper book or web based, on-line format.
One may not be sure if Mr Hitchens will respond to any of this criticism. Mr Hitchens is a skilled, persuasive writer with a large audience. He aims to provoke thought. He provoked a lot of people who commented on this blog. Some of us might have thought a bit before we commented. Mr Hitchens is a genuine subversive who delights in causing his readers to think. That is a part of his charater. Yes, atheists have character; get used to it.

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came to party late
Posted by: whealeydj on Jun 1, 2008 6:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
not enough time to argue with Bushies and Larouchites. I was unimpressed with the original article which like some others I was drawn to because of Hitchens and little evidence of Hitchens's racism. I have little familiarity with Amis so I can't judge. I took a course in history of Islam and the Middle east 27 years ago at UVA so we learned a lot about Islamic empires and how Islam was spread by sword and by trade so I dont have a dewey eyed view of Islam that many on the Left seem to have. Nevertheless I don't have the islamophobic attitude that many on the Right have either. I tend to be critical of imperialism wehther British or American or French or Russian or Chinese or Seljuk or Ottoman or Arabic or Moghul.

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