COMMENTS: 133
U.S. Sergeant Refuses to Go to Iraq: "This Occupation is Unconstitutional and Illegal"
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"I was from a poor, white family from the south, and I did badly in school," the now 24-year-old said.
"I was 'filet mignon' for recruiters. They started phoning me when I was in 10th grade," or around 16 years old, he added.
Chiroux joined the U.S. army straight out of high school nearly six years ago, and worked his way up from private to sergeant.
He served in Afghanistan, Germany, Japan, and the Philippines and was due to be deployed next month in Iraq.
On Thursday, he refused to go, saying he considers Iraq an illegal war.
"I stand before you today with the strength and clarity and resolve to declare to the military, my government and the world that this soldier will not be deploying to Iraq," Chiroux said in the sun-filled rotunda of a congressional building in Washington.
"My decision is based on my desire to no longer continue violating my core values to support an illegal and unconstitutional occupation… I refuse to participate in the Iraq occupation," he said, as a dozen veterans of the five-year-old Iraq war looked on.
Minutes earlier, Chiroux had cried openly as he listened to former comrades-in-arms testify before members of Congress about the failings of the Iraq war.
The testimonies were the first before Congress by Iraq veterans who have turned against the five-year-old war.
Former army sergeant Kristofer Goldsmith told a half-dozen US lawmakers and scores of people who packed into a small hearing room of "lawless murders, looting and the abuse of countless Iraqis."
He spoke of the psychologically fragile men and women who return from Iraq, to find little help or treatment offered from official circles.
Goldsmith said he had "self-medicated" for several months to treat the wounds of the war.
Another soldier said he had to boost his dosage of medication to treat anxiety and social agoraphobia -- two of many lingering mental wounds he carries since his deployments in Iraq -- before testifying.
Some 300,000 of the 1.6 million US soldiers who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan suffer from the psychological traumas of post-traumatic stress disorder, depression or both, an independent study showed last month.
A group of veterans sitting in the hearing room gazed blankly as their comrades' testimonies shattered the official version that the US effort in Iraq is succeeding.
Almost to a man, the soldiers who testified denounced serious flaws in the chain of command in Iraq.
Luis Montalvan, a former army captain, accused high-ranking U.S. officers of numerous failures in Iraq, including turning a blind eye to massive fraud on the part of U.S. contractors.
Ex-Marine Jason Lemieux told how a senior officer had altered a report he had written because it slammed U.S. troops of using excessive force, firing off thousands of rounds of machine gun fire and hundreds of grenades in the face of a feeble four rounds of enemy fire.
Goldsmith accused U.S. officials of censorship.
"Everyone who manages a blog, Facebook or MySpace out of Iraq has to register every video, picture, document of any event they do on mission," Goldsmith said after the hearing.
"You're almost always denied before you are allowed to send them home."
Officials take "hard facts and slice them into small pieces to make them presentable to the secretary of state or the president -- and all with the intent of furthering the occupation of Iraq," Goldsmith added.
Chiroux is one of thousands of U.S. soldiers who have deserted since the Iraq war began in 2003, according to figures issued last year by the US army.
But while many seek refuge in Canada, the young soldier vowed to stay in the United States to fight "whatever charges the army levels at me."
The US army defines a deserter as someone who has been absent without leave for 30 days.
Chiroux stood fast in his resolve to not report for duty on June 15.
"I cannot deploy to Iraq, carry a weapon and not be part of the problem," he said.
Watch video footage of Matthis Chiroux's announcement here.
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Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon on May 16, 2008 11:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Careful of relying on the bible
Posted by: pete ess
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Posted by: carbon-based on May 16, 2008 11:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We train soldiers to kill and if our government is so reckless as to send them in someplace they need to expect they will kill someone..hopefully a lot of people. Thats the point..
So when our military is sent in it should be for a good reason - and it should be for a mission well explained and reasoned..which this isn't.
I dont blame the sargent for not wanting to delpoy but unfortunately for him..it's not his decision, the military is not a democracy - he will and should do jail time..which I suspect he feels is better than doing time in Iraq!
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» RE: Here's the problem....His last name isn't "Bush"
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Here's the problem....His last name isn't "Bush"
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Here's the problem....His last name isn't "Bush"
Posted by: CatDad
» Last i recall, business are supposed to make money?
Posted by: TheJibreelaMonsters
» RE: Here's the problem....His last name isn't "Bush"
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Here's the problem....His last name isn't "Bush"
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Kofi said it was illegal
Posted by: chaoslegs
» When did we vote for Kofi?
Posted by: robbie.seal
» The Charge of The Light Brigade
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: The Charge of The Light Brigade
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: The Charge of The Light Brigade
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: The Charge of The Light Brigade
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: The Charge of The Light Brigade
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: The Charge of The Light Brigade Don't know what happened there, folks
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» Don't let the facts stop your ignorance of ROE (rules of engagement)
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» Wrong!
Posted by: photon's feather
» Name the law that makes this illegal
Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: robert.noll
» RE: Not a democracy--True, But Irrelevant
Posted by: Dadster3
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: Not a democracy ["Shove your officialdom where the sun don't shine."
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: robert.noll
» Caron-based is a spineless compliant Moron
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Caron-based is a spineless compliant Moron
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: polkpop
» Well Said
Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Well Said
Posted by: photon's feather
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Scientz on May 16, 2008 11:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I'd love to see . . .
Posted by: davesilvan
» RE: I'd love to see . . .
Posted by: Bright Penny
» RE: I'd love to see . . .
Posted by: Dak
» RE: I'd love to see . . .
Posted by: Dak
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Posted by: Dak on May 16, 2008 12:58 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would venture to guess that we will see arrests and impeachment moves before we see too much prison time. Possibly they might kick them out on a general discharge.
Who knows?! We are already seeing some wild denials of funds, etc., in a very PO'd Congress! Do you suppose they are finally catching on???!!
George M Melby, Pastor
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» Terrytom RE: Pastor Dak here....
Posted by: terryton
» Qualified ignorance doesn't need an official title, or does it?
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» RE: Qualified ignorance doesn't need an official title, or does it?
Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Qualified ignorance doesn't need an [have to defend those, such as this pastor
Posted by: Squarehead
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Posted by: writerman on May 16, 2008 1:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's obvious is that the United States is easily the most militeristic society in the Western world. The size and position of the military in US society has gotten almost completely out of control. It's almost as if it's the only institution that really works anymore compared to the rest of society which seems to be falling appart. This has profound implications for the rest of society.
It's almost as if America has now become a military machine that owns and controls a country for its benefit and not the other way around! This is a very unhealthy development. Soon, as the Empire becomes increasingly violent and expensive, requiring more and more of societies scarce resources, the power of the military in society will increase way beyond what we're used to. The military will become the only real part of the state that functions properly, just like in a third world nation. Once again this has profound implications for the future of the American democratic experiment.
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» RE: Democracy?
Posted by: zeek2
» RE: Democracy?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Democracy?
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: Democracy?
Posted by: swamiji
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Posted by: Purple Girl on May 16, 2008 1:21 PM
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Posted by: needler on May 16, 2008 2:38 PM
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Click here for the story!!!
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Posted by: Pop on May 16, 2008 3:14 PM
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» RE: pop
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: pop/illegal war
Posted by: grethart
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Posted by: kentigereyes@yahoo.com on May 16, 2008 3:20 PM
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» RE: A standing ovation for this young man,
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» RE: A standing ovation for this young man,
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Michael_D on May 16, 2008 3:56 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
google video:
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iraq for sale
no end in sight
bodyofwar c om
patriotsquestion911 c om
pilotsfor911truth o rg
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911 Mysteries Part 1 - Demolitions (Full - 1ed.)
revolutionmarch c om
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Posted by: CJC on May 16, 2008 4:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bravo to Chiroux for facing up to his decision not to go to Iraq. Not only is the war a disaster and a blunder from the day it was first imagined by some neocons probably 20 years ago, our young men and women risk returning home physically and/or psychically damaged from what they see and what they may be compelled to do. He has more courage than hundreds and hundreds of politicians and pundits who were wrong from the beginning but still don't want to own up to the havoc they supported (or lacked the brainpower to imagine.) It will be a tragedy for Chiroux and the country if he has to languish in prison for his temerity to challenge the system. He's a hero too.
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Posted by: Rosasharn on May 16, 2008 4:22 PM
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» RE: The KIND
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Turiye on May 16, 2008 7:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is recorded, SWORN testimony before Congress and they will testify in front of any and all Committees by sworn testimony.
I wanted to thank the 2 Nazis from thegatheringofeagles that came in passing off literature in the presence of Congress and photographing all of our faces, as if the Stassi from homeland doesn't already have photos. Chickenhawks the both of them.
To help Matthis and to view the Testimony on the Hill from yesterday go to http://www.ivaw.org
Watch it for yourself, and for all of you naysayers, SWORN TESTIMONY, okay????
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» RE: I Was On the Hill Yesterday, Where was ALTERNET, I didn't see you in that room?
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: mountainmama on May 16, 2008 7:27 PM
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» RE: God bless Matthias and those men!!
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: edgar_michel on May 16, 2008 7:58 PM
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Posted by: keala on May 16, 2008 10:36 PM
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» Yes, Wikipedia and a site set up specifically for Ehren
Posted by: RedWhiteBlueGreen
» RE: ms young
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: Smiggsy on May 17, 2008 1:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didn't you people make revolution famous or something? Well don't just sit there...
Come on people....grow some balls already (shakes clenched fist politely in your general direction)
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» RE: Your so fine you blow my mind America......not
Posted by: grethart
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Posted by: packofwolves on May 17, 2008 4:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: These our the heros
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: These our the heros
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Erin on May 17, 2008 5:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Braver than you think
Posted by: Lauren
» One can't be a traitor to America, only a Pirate leadership
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Braver than you think
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: KyGentleman on May 17, 2008 6:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Sinclair Lewis once said Facism will come to this country Draped in the Flag and carrying a Cross.
Posted by: grethart
» RE: Sinclair Lewis once said Facism will come to this country Draped in the Flag and carrying a Cros
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Lauren on May 17, 2008 7:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: weslen1 on May 17, 2008 7:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I watched most of those hearings. How many of you knew the hummers they were issued to use had plastic doors? How many of you know hundreds of the new armored vehicles that are bomb resistant were given to the Iraqi Army BEFORE American soldiers saw ONE?
How many of you know about KBR (?) re-selling bullets and other ammunition and then giving American soldiers out-dated bullets and ammunition that didn't work?
These are just TWO examples. There are THOUSANDS!!! Halliburton, KBR, and Blackwater are ROTTEN TO THE CORE and I hope this ONE BRAVE YOUNG MAN AND ALL THE BRAVE YOUNG MEN WHO TESTIFIED win THIS BATTLE HANDS DOWN!!
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» RE: He has the RIGHT!
Posted by: nomoreblinders
» We all have the right.
Posted by: robbie.seal
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Posted by: bobtr900 on May 17, 2008 7:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And while I'm at it I sincerely doubt that he landed that plane on the aircraft carrier when he proclaimed that combat operations were over in Iraq back in 2003. No one would let that guy land on a carrier. In fact as I understand it NO ONE, NO PILOT can land on an aircraft carrier that does not have up to date carrier flight status clearance. 'Traps' on carriers are always dangerous and considered 'controlled crashes' by those who do them. That Bush landed on that carrier strains, no, defies all credibility.
Com' on and pul'eeze. Give us all a break. This bum keeps shoveling and we are supposed to keep buying it.
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» RE: wow you know about the horse thing
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: common intelligence on May 17, 2008 7:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those that condone blind, mindless compliance regardlessly, by way of any contractual adherance to signing up to be a regulated pawn are themselves guilty of teason. And they themselves are not protecting the real interests of the United States.
For what is allegedly happening in the name of the United States interests in the world has not to do with our countries peoples beliefs , laws, or benefit for humanity, but is a corporate empire surge for world domination and control of the earths resouces, damn the peoples. floura and fauna of earth.
This nation was taken in a Coup'd etat. The perpitrators as we all know have instilled systems to be make them unaccountable for massive war crimes. (Adolf Hitler and Stalin would be so proud of these bastards).
So as the spineless population and those in the military stand by in denial and non action, millions have died been maimed or have been directly victimized as collateral damage with out any consequences to the those truely responsible.
Mean while the smoke screen of an election to purge the system of these pirates is distracting the populations of America (not the world) from making these bastards accountable for their actions.
It is the duty of All Americans to do more than just cast their meaningless vote but to bring down these bastards Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rummy, Rice, Rove 'turd blossum, Abramhoff, the list is so long ..... And at this point I believe by what ever mean possible. For they are the one ones that have destroyed the America we knew and replace it with this current sytem, that which is not America.
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Posted by: wgriff3245 on May 17, 2008 9:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Udon?
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: ronheri on May 17, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: VickyinSD on May 17, 2008 10:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congress needs to begin IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS for ALL of these bastards and they need to throw their criminal asses in prison, instead of giving them a farewell kiss goodbye and a lifetime govt. pension!!!
If you're as mad as I am, moved to tears (again) like I am, then forward this article to everyone you know, as well as your elected "representatives" in D.C., because the next battle zone looms high on the horizon, and they call it Iran!
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» RE: How many more...
Posted by: zorba1
» RE: How many more...
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 17, 2008 11:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Is anyone here following the Lt. Ehren Watada matter?
Posted by: Paxmana1
» RE: Is anyone here following the Lt. Ehren Watada matter?
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: The follow-up of Lt. Ehren Watada matter, Yes!
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: The follow-up of Lt. Ehren Watada matter, Yes!
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueGorilla on May 17, 2008 6:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately many recruits to the forces ,do not question their decision, before joining up.That is a shame,as so many wars are fought for bogus reasons.
Our society,whips the populace (or most of it),into a pseudo-patriotism at these key moments.Fox ,Congress etc were,hardcore cheerleaders for war after the atrocities of 9/11,with a call to emotion,that eventually allowed for, the ruling classes war on Iraq.
Without a strong, collective counter-hegemony, I am unsurprised that so many kids ,take these right wing values as natural.
You don't see the "hawks",sending their kids to war.The service record of these liars,is hippocritical too,as Bush and other's, avoided the service, that the less priviliged couldn't.
If you are poor,working class,black etc,you are cannon fodder for the rich man's war.Your education and society will make sure,that, enough of you expendable people "do your duty".
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» RE: fodder for the rich man's war
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: chiefwanadubie on May 18, 2008 11:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: blogbooks on May 18, 2008 3:22 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He'll do jail time, get a bad discharge, and spend the rest of his life in the same poverty he grew up in.
It's all fine and well for you white yuppies to sit in your office and applaud this guy, but his life is ruined.
He may even end up another vet suicide.
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» RE: His life is over
Posted by: nomoreblinders
» No Worries, rather honorable or dishonorably Discharged I'll hire and givem a Job.
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: His life is over
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: His life is over
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: (I really hope) His life is (not) over
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: buddha's bud on May 18, 2008 4:53 PM
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on May 18, 2008 8:46 PM
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Posted by: YogiBear on May 18, 2008 10:48 PM
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Perhaps the military should be required to shorten the time between re-enlistments. As soldiers mature, they can rethink their decisions. But until that time, the law requires you to go when the government says go. If you don't like it, fine, but you should pay the penalty for refusing.
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Posted by: nomoreblinders on May 18, 2008 11:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Kathy
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: Kathy
Posted by: nomoreblinders
» RE: Kathy
Posted by: Mercury46
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Posted by: DesertStone on May 19, 2008 1:14 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is the purpose of regarding these tools of imperialist terrorists as heroes while millions of resisters of tyranny are smeared as terrorists? Such delusional rhetoric can only prolong the madness.
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» RE: Afghanistan
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: chuff8 on May 19, 2008 6:27 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Debt of gratitude
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: Jordonquits on May 21, 2008 12:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But professional soldiers cannot be allowed to pick and choose what they do. For a military to function at all, this must be the case. I would fully support him if he was a conscript. But a volunteer who goes AWOL cannot be tolerated, regardless of the situation.
He should quit as soon as he possible can, and publicly denounce the war once he is out, but while still a soldier, he cannot be allowed to get off scott free. Sure in this particular case that would be nice, but a standard like this cannot be set. When a real catastrophe happens, and military use is actually required, it cannot be the case that soldiers can simply go AWOL if they don't feel like fighting. I am not saying this man is a coward at all, but those with less courage than him would take advantage of a military which tolerated desertion, claiming they had suddenly become ethically opposed to the war.
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» Amen
Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: The military cannot allow this type of [Why does your military have to function?
Posted by: Squarehead
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Posted by: robbie.seal on May 22, 2008 1:49 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep seeing the assertion. I don't see the meat.
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Posted by: Squarehead on May 29, 2008 7:23 AM
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It is the nature of democracy that the governed consent to be governed. Those who say 'you can't allow a volunteer soldier to make his own mind up on the legality of orders, that he/ she must obey' are betraying an authoritarian mindset which plays into the hands of government, in a way that is damaging to democracy.
Of course in a war of survival, let us say WW2, the morality of compulsion is different. But the general rule, in all military codes, is that illegality is not condoned and if a soldier identifies illegality, he is supposed to oppose it. Being cowed or scared is not a 'get out' clause. The defense 'I was only obeying orders' is somewhat discredited, after Nuremburg
So, to those who say 'he's a professional, if he was a conscript it would be different'; not so. He remains a citizen, with responsibility to society.
If it was a situation of national survival (e.g. WW2) compulsion might well be moral and appropriate. This is not that situation.
Therefore he is completely correct in his behavior, both in law and in morality.
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Posted by: 2/187 on Jun 16, 2008 2:17 AM
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He KNEW what he got himself into. The 8 year commitment isn't shady or thrown in there without you knowing. They also tell you to your face,if at any time you are within your 8 year obligation, you may be called back to active duty.
Matthis' father Rob, a rocket scientist who lives in the army town of Huntsville, Alabama, said mobilizing IRR members was a form of back-door draft.
There is nothing back door about all this. His son signed the contract, fully understanding what was in it and what his obligations were going to be for the next 8 years.
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Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon on May 16, 2008 11:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Careful of relying on the bible
Posted by: pete ess
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Posted by: carbon-based on May 16, 2008 11:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We train soldiers to kill and if our government is so reckless as to send them in someplace they need to expect they will kill someone..hopefully a lot of people. Thats the point..
So when our military is sent in it should be for a good reason - and it should be for a mission well explained and reasoned..which this isn't.
I dont blame the sargent for not wanting to delpoy but unfortunately for him..it's not his decision, the military is not a democracy - he will and should do jail time..which I suspect he feels is better than doing time in Iraq!
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» RE: Here's the problem....His last name isn't "Bush"
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Here's the problem....His last name isn't "Bush"
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Here's the problem....His last name isn't "Bush"
Posted by: CatDad
» Last i recall, business are supposed to make money?
Posted by: TheJibreelaMonsters
» RE: Here's the problem....His last name isn't "Bush"
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Here's the problem....His last name isn't "Bush"
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Kofi said it was illegal
Posted by: chaoslegs
» When did we vote for Kofi?
Posted by: robbie.seal
» The Charge of The Light Brigade
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: The Charge of The Light Brigade
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: The Charge of The Light Brigade
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: The Charge of The Light Brigade
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: The Charge of The Light Brigade
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: The Charge of The Light Brigade Don't know what happened there, folks
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Wait a minute
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» Don't let the facts stop your ignorance of ROE (rules of engagement)
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» Wrong!
Posted by: photon's feather
» Name the law that makes this illegal
Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: robert.noll
» RE: Not a democracy--True, But Irrelevant
Posted by: Dadster3
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: Not a democracy ["Shove your officialdom where the sun don't shine."
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: robert.noll
» Caron-based is a spineless compliant Moron
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Caron-based is a spineless compliant Moron
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Not a democracy
Posted by: polkpop
» Well Said
Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Well Said
Posted by: photon's feather
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Posted by: Scientz on May 16, 2008 11:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I'd love to see . . .
Posted by: davesilvan
» RE: I'd love to see . . .
Posted by: Bright Penny
» RE: I'd love to see . . .
Posted by: Dak
» RE: I'd love to see . . .
Posted by: Dak
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Posted by: Dak on May 16, 2008 12:58 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would venture to guess that we will see arrests and impeachment moves before we see too much prison time. Possibly they might kick them out on a general discharge.
Who knows?! We are already seeing some wild denials of funds, etc., in a very PO'd Congress! Do you suppose they are finally catching on???!!
George M Melby, Pastor
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» Terrytom RE: Pastor Dak here....
Posted by: terryton
» Qualified ignorance doesn't need an official title, or does it?
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» RE: Qualified ignorance doesn't need an official title, or does it?
Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Qualified ignorance doesn't need an [have to defend those, such as this pastor
Posted by: Squarehead
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Posted by: writerman on May 16, 2008 1:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's obvious is that the United States is easily the most militeristic society in the Western world. The size and position of the military in US society has gotten almost completely out of control. It's almost as if it's the only institution that really works anymore compared to the rest of society which seems to be falling appart. This has profound implications for the rest of society.
It's almost as if America has now become a military machine that owns and controls a country for its benefit and not the other way around! This is a very unhealthy development. Soon, as the Empire becomes increasingly violent and expensive, requiring more and more of societies scarce resources, the power of the military in society will increase way beyond what we're used to. The military will become the only real part of the state that functions properly, just like in a third world nation. Once again this has profound implications for the future of the American democratic experiment.
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» RE: Democracy?
Posted by: zeek2
» RE: Democracy?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Democracy?
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: Democracy?
Posted by: swamiji
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Posted by: Purple Girl on May 16, 2008 1:21 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: needler on May 16, 2008 2:38 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Click here for the story!!!
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Posted by: Pop on May 16, 2008 3:14 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: pop
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: pop/illegal war
Posted by: grethart
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Posted by: kentigereyes@yahoo.com on May 16, 2008 3:20 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: A standing ovation for this young man,
Posted by: starvinmarvy
» RE: A standing ovation for this young man,
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Michael_D on May 16, 2008 3:56 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
google video:
clinton chronicles
coke bush
iraq for sale
no end in sight
bodyofwar c om
patriotsquestion911 c om
pilotsfor911truth o rg
911pressfortruth c om
911 Mysteries Part 1 - Demolitions (Full - 1ed.)
revolutionmarch c om
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Posted by: CJC on May 16, 2008 4:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bravo to Chiroux for facing up to his decision not to go to Iraq. Not only is the war a disaster and a blunder from the day it was first imagined by some neocons probably 20 years ago, our young men and women risk returning home physically and/or psychically damaged from what they see and what they may be compelled to do. He has more courage than hundreds and hundreds of politicians and pundits who were wrong from the beginning but still don't want to own up to the havoc they supported (or lacked the brainpower to imagine.) It will be a tragedy for Chiroux and the country if he has to languish in prison for his temerity to challenge the system. He's a hero too.
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Posted by: Rosasharn on May 16, 2008 4:22 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The KIND
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Turiye on May 16, 2008 7:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is recorded, SWORN testimony before Congress and they will testify in front of any and all Committees by sworn testimony.
I wanted to thank the 2 Nazis from thegatheringofeagles that came in passing off literature in the presence of Congress and photographing all of our faces, as if the Stassi from homeland doesn't already have photos. Chickenhawks the both of them.
To help Matthis and to view the Testimony on the Hill from yesterday go to http://www.ivaw.org
Watch it for yourself, and for all of you naysayers, SWORN TESTIMONY, okay????
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» RE: I Was On the Hill Yesterday, Where was ALTERNET, I didn't see you in that room?
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: mountainmama on May 16, 2008 7:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: God bless Matthias and those men!!
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: edgar_michel on May 16, 2008 7:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: keala on May 16, 2008 10:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Yes, Wikipedia and a site set up specifically for Ehren
Posted by: RedWhiteBlueGreen
» RE: ms young
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: Smiggsy on May 17, 2008 1:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didn't you people make revolution famous or something? Well don't just sit there...
Come on people....grow some balls already (shakes clenched fist politely in your general direction)
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» RE: Your so fine you blow my mind America......not
Posted by: grethart
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Posted by: packofwolves on May 17, 2008 4:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: These our the heros
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: These our the heros
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Erin on May 17, 2008 5:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Braver than you think
Posted by: Lauren
» One can't be a traitor to America, only a Pirate leadership
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Braver than you think
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: KyGentleman on May 17, 2008 6:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Sinclair Lewis once said Facism will come to this country Draped in the Flag and carrying a Cross.
Posted by: grethart
» RE: Sinclair Lewis once said Facism will come to this country Draped in the Flag and carrying a Cros
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Lauren on May 17, 2008 7:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: weslen1 on May 17, 2008 7:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I watched most of those hearings. How many of you knew the hummers they were issued to use had plastic doors? How many of you know hundreds of the new armored vehicles that are bomb resistant were given to the Iraqi Army BEFORE American soldiers saw ONE?
How many of you know about KBR (?) re-selling bullets and other ammunition and then giving American soldiers out-dated bullets and ammunition that didn't work?
These are just TWO examples. There are THOUSANDS!!! Halliburton, KBR, and Blackwater are ROTTEN TO THE CORE and I hope this ONE BRAVE YOUNG MAN AND ALL THE BRAVE YOUNG MEN WHO TESTIFIED win THIS BATTLE HANDS DOWN!!
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» RE: He has the RIGHT!
Posted by: nomoreblinders
» We all have the right.
Posted by: robbie.seal
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Posted by: bobtr900 on May 17, 2008 7:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And while I'm at it I sincerely doubt that he landed that plane on the aircraft carrier when he proclaimed that combat operations were over in Iraq back in 2003. No one would let that guy land on a carrier. In fact as I understand it NO ONE, NO PILOT can land on an aircraft carrier that does not have up to date carrier flight status clearance. 'Traps' on carriers are always dangerous and considered 'controlled crashes' by those who do them. That Bush landed on that carrier strains, no, defies all credibility.
Com' on and pul'eeze. Give us all a break. This bum keeps shoveling and we are supposed to keep buying it.
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» RE: wow you know about the horse thing
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: common intelligence on May 17, 2008 7:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those that condone blind, mindless compliance regardlessly, by way of any contractual adherance to signing up to be a regulated pawn are themselves guilty of teason. And they themselves are not protecting the real interests of the United States.
For what is allegedly happening in the name of the United States interests in the world has not to do with our countries peoples beliefs , laws, or benefit for humanity, but is a corporate empire surge for world domination and control of the earths resouces, damn the peoples. floura and fauna of earth.
This nation was taken in a Coup'd etat. The perpitrators as we all know have instilled systems to be make them unaccountable for massive war crimes. (Adolf Hitler and Stalin would be so proud of these bastards).
So as the spineless population and those in the military stand by in denial and non action, millions have died been maimed or have been directly victimized as collateral damage with out any consequences to the those truely responsible.
Mean while the smoke screen of an election to purge the system of these pirates is distracting the populations of America (not the world) from making these bastards accountable for their actions.
It is the duty of All Americans to do more than just cast their meaningless vote but to bring down these bastards Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rummy, Rice, Rove 'turd blossum, Abramhoff, the list is so long ..... And at this point I believe by what ever mean possible. For they are the one ones that have destroyed the America we knew and replace it with this current sytem, that which is not America.
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Posted by: wgriff3245 on May 17, 2008 9:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Udon?
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: ronheri on May 17, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: VickyinSD on May 17, 2008 10:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congress needs to begin IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS for ALL of these bastards and they need to throw their criminal asses in prison, instead of giving them a farewell kiss goodbye and a lifetime govt. pension!!!
If you're as mad as I am, moved to tears (again) like I am, then forward this article to everyone you know, as well as your elected "representatives" in D.C., because the next battle zone looms high on the horizon, and they call it Iran!
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» RE: How many more...
Posted by: zorba1
» RE: How many more...
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 17, 2008 11:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Is anyone here following the Lt. Ehren Watada matter?
Posted by: Paxmana1
» RE: Is anyone here following the Lt. Ehren Watada matter?
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: The follow-up of Lt. Ehren Watada matter, Yes!
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: The follow-up of Lt. Ehren Watada matter, Yes!
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueGorilla on May 17, 2008 6:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately many recruits to the forces ,do not question their decision, before joining up.That is a shame,as so many wars are fought for bogus reasons.
Our society,whips the populace (or most of it),into a pseudo-patriotism at these key moments.Fox ,Congress etc were,hardcore cheerleaders for war after the atrocities of 9/11,with a call to emotion,that eventually allowed for, the ruling classes war on Iraq.
Without a strong, collective counter-hegemony, I am unsurprised that so many kids ,take these right wing values as natural.
You don't see the "hawks",sending their kids to war.The service record of these liars,is hippocritical too,as Bush and other's, avoided the service, that the less priviliged couldn't.
If you are poor,working class,black etc,you are cannon fodder for the rich man's war.Your education and society will make sure,that, enough of you expendable people "do your duty".
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» RE: fodder for the rich man's war
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: chiefwanadubie on May 18, 2008 11:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: blogbooks on May 18, 2008 3:22 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He'll do jail time, get a bad discharge, and spend the rest of his life in the same poverty he grew up in.
It's all fine and well for you white yuppies to sit in your office and applaud this guy, but his life is ruined.
He may even end up another vet suicide.
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» RE: His life is over
Posted by: nomoreblinders
» No Worries, rather honorable or dishonorably Discharged I'll hire and givem a Job.
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: His life is over
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: His life is over
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: (I really hope) His life is (not) over
Posted by: Dboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: buddha's bud on May 18, 2008 4:53 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on May 18, 2008 8:46 PM
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Posted by: YogiBear on May 18, 2008 10:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps the military should be required to shorten the time between re-enlistments. As soldiers mature, they can rethink their decisions. But until that time, the law requires you to go when the government says go. If you don't like it, fine, but you should pay the penalty for refusing.
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Posted by: nomoreblinders on May 18, 2008 11:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Kathy
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: Kathy
Posted by: nomoreblinders
» RE: Kathy
Posted by: Mercury46
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Posted by: DesertStone on May 19, 2008 1:14 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is the purpose of regarding these tools of imperialist terrorists as heroes while millions of resisters of tyranny are smeared as terrorists? Such delusional rhetoric can only prolong the madness.
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» RE: Afghanistan
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: chuff8 on May 19, 2008 6:27 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Debt of gratitude
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: Jordonquits on May 21, 2008 12:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But professional soldiers cannot be allowed to pick and choose what they do. For a military to function at all, this must be the case. I would fully support him if he was a conscript. But a volunteer who goes AWOL cannot be tolerated, regardless of the situation.
He should quit as soon as he possible can, and publicly denounce the war once he is out, but while still a soldier, he cannot be allowed to get off scott free. Sure in this particular case that would be nice, but a standard like this cannot be set. When a real catastrophe happens, and military use is actually required, it cannot be the case that soldiers can simply go AWOL if they don't feel like fighting. I am not saying this man is a coward at all, but those with less courage than him would take advantage of a military which tolerated desertion, claiming they had suddenly become ethically opposed to the war.
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» Amen
Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: The military cannot allow this type of [Why does your military have to function?
Posted by: Squarehead
Comments are closed-
Posted by: robbie.seal on May 22, 2008 1:49 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep seeing the assertion. I don't see the meat.
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Posted by: Squarehead on May 29, 2008 7:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is the nature of democracy that the governed consent to be governed. Those who say 'you can't allow a volunteer soldier to make his own mind up on the legality of orders, that he/ she must obey' are betraying an authoritarian mindset which plays into the hands of government, in a way that is damaging to democracy.
Of course in a war of survival, let us say WW2, the morality of compulsion is different. But the general rule, in all military codes, is that illegality is not condoned and if a soldier identifies illegality, he is supposed to oppose it. Being cowed or scared is not a 'get out' clause. The defense 'I was only obeying orders' is somewhat discredited, after Nuremburg
So, to those who say 'he's a professional, if he was a conscript it would be different'; not so. He remains a citizen, with responsibility to society.
If it was a situation of national survival (e.g. WW2) compulsion might well be moral and appropriate. This is not that situation.
Therefore he is completely correct in his behavior, both in law and in morality.
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Posted by: 2/187 on Jun 16, 2008 2:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He KNEW what he got himself into. The 8 year commitment isn't shady or thrown in there without you knowing. They also tell you to your face,if at any time you are within your 8 year obligation, you may be called back to active duty.
Matthis' father Rob, a rocket scientist who lives in the army town of Huntsville, Alabama, said mobilizing IRR members was a form of back-door draft.
There is nothing back door about all this. His son signed the contract, fully understanding what was in it and what his obligations were going to be for the next 8 years.
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