COMMENTS: 73
Will Democracy Make You Happy?
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Statistically, Moldova may be the least happy nation on the planet. On a scale of 1 (least happy) to 10, Moldovans can muster only a 4.5 in self-reported surveys. They are less happy than their morose neighbors, the Ukrainians and the Romanians, and inexplicably, they are less happy than much of sub-Saharan Africa. What is truly mysterious, though, and deeply troubling for those in the business of nation building, is that Moldovan despair persists despite the advent of democracy.
This wasn't supposed to happen here. The mood in Moldova--and indeed in most of the former Soviet bloc countries--flies in the face of what is received wisdom in foreign-policy circles: Democratic nations are happy nations. Or, to put it another way, the path to national bliss is paved with democracy. Until now, the debate has centered only on how best to travel that path and at what cost. "This interpretation is appealing and suggests that we have a quick fix for most of the world's problems: adopt a democratic constitution, and live happily ever after," says Ronald Inglehart, a professor at the Center for Political Studies at the University of Michigan, and a man who has spent a career studying the relationship between democracy and happiness.
There's only one problem with this compelling and seemingly self-evident truism. It's not true. "To assume that democracy automatically makes people happy is to assume that the tail is wagging the dog," says Inglehart. In other words, the well-intentioned nation builders and democracy exporters have it backward. It's not that democracies make people happy but, rather, that happy people make democracies.
THE SCIENCE OF SATISFACTION
This remarkable finding isn't simply a new theory born out of thin air. It's based on hard data that social scientists on the leading edge of the emerging "science of happiness" are now employing to measure cultural artifacts such as trust and happiness, just as political scientists have for decades measured levels of democracy by comparing such metrics as press freedom and voting rights.
These social scientists do so through a disarmingly simple technique. They ask people, "Overall, how happy are you with your life these days?" Surveys such as the comprehensive World Values Survey have posed that question, with little variation, to people in more than 80 nations, accounting for some 85 percent of the world's population. They have produced a mother lode of data. Although the data are often contradictory, a few clear patterns have emerged. We now know, for example, that happy countries tend to be wealthy ones, with temperate climates and, crucially, stable democracies.
The question, though, is which comes first: happiness or democracy? Despite our earlier thinking, there is now growing evidence that a happy population, one where people are satisfied with their lives as a whole, is a prerequisite for democracy.
In the 1980s, happiness and democracy were closely linked (with a correlation of 0.8), thus cementing the democracy-equals-happiness theory in the minds of many political scientists and policymakers. But then came the so-called third wave of democracy, a flood of infant democracies that rose from the ashes of the Soviet Union and its satellite states in Eastern Europe. These nations have not enjoyed a happiness dividend, and, indeed, as in Moldova, many are less happy today than they were during Soviet times. Today, the correlation between happiness and democracy is only 0.25, less than a third of what it was in the 1980s. In more than 200 surveys carried out by the World Values Survey, 28 of the 30 least happy nations were registered in former communist states. The remaining two surveys were conducted in Iraq. In Russia, both subjective well-being (happiness) and trust have fallen sharply since its people began voting in relatively free elections. By 1995, a majority of Russians described themselves as unhappy and dissatisfied with their lives as a whole. The same is true of Moldova and several other former Soviet republics. (Russian misery, by the way, predates Vladimir Putin's recent crackdown on freedoms.)
Contrast the mood in the former Soviet states with that of China. During the past two decades, as China witnessed an economic boom, its citizens reported levels of satisfaction consistently double those of people in former Soviet countries. This, despite the fact that China remains a one-party communist state where an indiscreet Google search can land you in jail.
Clearly, democracy is only one source of human happiness, and indeed it may not be the greatest source. Economic growth appears to affect national happiness at least as much as democracy. Economic growth helps foster trust between citizens and the state, and trust is essential to democracy. That's why in nations such as South Korea and Taiwan, a spurt of economic growth has preceded democratic reforms.
What the evidence on happiness demonstrates is that happy people are much more likely to express satisfaction with their country's political regime, regardless of what kind that might be, than unhappy people. That's not to say that democracy doesn't matter. It does. All things being equal, democracy does provide a happiness boost. But all things are rarely equal.
Some studies point to a definite "happiness bonus" among the world's democracies, for example. In 1999, Swiss economists Bruno Frey and Alois Stutzer famously studied the effects of their country's system of direct democracy on happiness levels. Switzerland makes a perfect laboratory for this kind of study; the country shares a common culture (if not language) and relatively even economic development. Yet the degree of democracy varies from one district to the next. Frey and Stutzer asked some 6,000 residents, both Swiss citizens and foreigners, one question: "How satisfied are you with your life as a whole these days?" They found a clear correlation between the vitality of direct democracy and the subjective well-being, or happiness, of each district. The Swiss example proves that a bit more democracy makes a developed, already democratic country like Switzerland a bit happier. For the Swiss, direct democracy is the icing on their cake. But for nations with no cake, the icing is meaningless.
A LONG TIME COMING
It isn't hard to fall into the old trap of assuming democracy is such a powerful force that it can sweep aside any cultural differences that might stand in its way. Confronted with the obvious goodness of free elections and self-determination, peoples of the world should shed their cultural vestiges the way a snake sloughs its skin, right? It's a compelling idea, a perfectly plausible one, but one that happens to be wrong. "Culture seems to shape democracy far more than democracy shapes culture," says Inglehart.
Indeed, this notion of cultural primacy is gaining favor, especially among foreign-policy realists such as Colin Powell. "There are some places that are not ready for the kind of democracy we find so attractive for ourselves. They are not culturally ready for it," Powell said in a recent interview with GQ. That is not to say, of course, that these places won't ever be ready for democracy. They just aren't ready now, and no amount of wishing, or purple ink, will make it so.
All of this can be a bit depressing for those who believe that foreign policy should be informed by an idealistic streak. But, as Iraq has demonstrated, midwifing a constitution won't necessarily turn a distrustful, unhappy society into a trusting, happy one. Of course, the science of happiness is in its infancy, and it would be foolish to base a foreign policy on its tentative conclusions. Social scientists may be able to measure, with some accuracy, abstractions such as happiness and trust, but they don't necessarily know how to produce these qualities--in a person or a nation. What these findings do remind us, though, is that democracy bubbles up to the surface when the time is right and not a second sooner.
Reproduced with permission from Foreign Policy #165 (March/April 2008) www.foreignpolicy.com. Copyright 2008, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
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Posted by: mmckinl on May 8, 2008 12:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The study should take into account the way the so called democracy is being run. Is the country a true democracy or really another shell company for the local oligarchy and the transnational corporations?
For a true look at corporate democracy try this article:
The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism'
The fact is that "democratization" has been the "Trojan Horse" of modern colonialism, buying elections and passing trade laws that essentially subject the country to debt servitude with crony capitalism.
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» RE: Democracy or Corporatocracy... Commonwealth or Neoliberalism?
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Democracy or Corporatocracy... Commonwealth or Neoliberalism?
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Democracy or Corporatocracy... Commonwealth or Neoliberalism?
Posted by: themotie
» Liberals who complain about capitalism are shooting their own feet off.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Democracy? Where?
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Democracy? Where?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Democracy? Where?
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: WaldoMaui on May 8, 2008 3:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Huh?
I'm incredulous. We invaded Iraq and we destroyed it. Why on earth would Iraqis buy what we're selling? We Americans are the the very ones who turned them into a "distrustful, unhappy society."
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» RE: Do As I Say, Not As I Do
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: susanbm on May 8, 2008 3:36 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
these are learned skills. people who grew up in totalitarian systems have to learn a whole new skill set to function in a democracy. it's hard to grow up. it's easier to decide to remain a self indulgent child (now i'm speaking about the US population in general) and ignore the realities of the decisions that have been made.
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» RE: happiness is the wrong measurement
Posted by: rue
» Yes, its hard to grow up in totalitarian systems, such as America...
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: heid on May 8, 2008 3:38 AM
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Iraq offered up as an example of democracy?!
Puh-leeeze!
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Posted by: Windwhistler on May 8, 2008 4:47 AM
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» Democracy – Greece NOT!
Posted by: themotie
» Me Too
Posted by: Windwhistler
» RE: Democracy – Greece NOT!
Posted by: e rice
» Democracy
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: Purple Girl on May 8, 2008 5:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until this country scrapes the crap off our own boots we have no right to enter anyone elses. the quickest and most effiient way is to start with those who have filled our arean with crap for the last century- esp the last 40 yrs.Start with Cheney and follow his Blood and Mud prints every where they lead. Once we clean Up that mess- we will be welcomed into others homes because we will be truely only entering bearing gifts
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» RE: Depends on Who is defining and 'executing ' Democracy
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: ot on May 8, 2008 5:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Huh, well, they're reporting happiness, therefore it must be ok.
Similar research also has found that people who end up paralyzed or otherwise disabled from some accident or disease typically regain their previous level of "happiness".
But what would anyone choose given the same level of happiness: life in a wheel chair or life on two feet.
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» RE: Good grief
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Good grief
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: Good grief
Posted by: jonnymil
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Posted by: KeepsonTickn on May 8, 2008 5:45 AM
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» Tell that to the Walmart crowd...
Posted by: 2dogarage
» no one is in control of his life,
Posted by: e rice
» Middle-class America?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Middle-class America?
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: worldancer on May 8, 2008 6:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The economic system best suited for REAL democracy is obviously a kind of culturally sensitive socialism. But the people must have reason to TRUST that its contributions to its Government will be returned in sustainable benefits for all: democracy--the unalienable right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness-shared. Historically, tragically, capitalism just doesn't play well with others.
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» Two Democracies
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Two Democracies
Posted by: worldancer
» Capitalist Multiculturalism
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Capitalist Multiculturalism
Posted by: worldancer
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Posted by: themotie on May 8, 2008 6:20 AM
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But if you have two societies, equal in all respect, but in one you are constantly told your life isn't good enough and that you could do better. Where would the self-reported happiness be greatest?
You could also imagine two identical societies, but where one have declined in public health and with increased crime, for example and the other have improved health care and is conquering crime. Where would the self-reported well-being be highest?
I don't know, but I don't see these kinds of surveys including factors like these, factors I believe are rather significant. I could also see factors like these being central to the countries in question.
My three pesos ...
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Posted by: hagwind on May 8, 2008 6:42 AM
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I think the big selling point for democracy, and for all kinds of freedom, is that it makes us mature. It helps us grow up and take responsibility for our lives and our communities. I'm not knocking childhood, mind you. If you've got enough to eat, plenty of opportunities to play, a community that values you, and no one to take advantage of your weakness by beating you, coercing you, or forcing you to serve them, childhood is great. But it's not a good place to get stuck.
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» Childhood
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: phindrup on May 8, 2008 6:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
then there is the question of where you find these 'democracies'.
Name a country that actually holds 'free and fair' elections!
Australia? a couple of elections ago one party garnered 24 percent of the vote, and never won a seat.
The US? Please! If the UN observers attended your elections the report would read: "RIGGED".
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» Scandinavia?
Posted by: themotie
» RE: Misery under democracy
Posted by: AussieGeoff
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Posted by: ClassAct on May 8, 2008 7:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“When the Communists spoke of communism, they were lying. When they spoke of capitalism, they were telling the truth.”
I guess they would know. It is appalling that the intellectual context here is not between democracy and tyranny or capitalism and communism, but between democracy and communism – as apt as comparing apples and ponies.
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» Russians had monetary wealth, i.e. capital... rubles & gold.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Daddy had a Rubber Plantation?
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on May 8, 2008 7:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who believes that? Absolutely no one in the U.S. government, for starters. No, U.S. foreign policy is aimed at rape and pillage of other nation's basic resources, not at spreading democracy.
This article is a perfect example of how think tanks are used to package and sell Brand America to their audiences. The fact that Alternet is running so very many "Cleaning Up Brand America" articles is somewhat suspicious, to say the least.
Our government's basic agenda is to go to countries, kick open their front door, take whatever looks good, shoot whoever gets in the way, and take the goods home to the ongoing American overconsumption orgy.
Just the fact of the matter. Doesn't mean that other countries don't do the same thing, but this whole "America the Saintly" bullshit that's been promoted and fed out via the left, the right and the traditional press has got to go.
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» RE: Selling Brand America
Posted by: richholland
» Alternet and articles like this..
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: isafakir on May 8, 2008 8:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For Example: It is unimaginably absurd to say that despite democracy, post Soviet Russians were less happy. Voting in and of itself is not democratic, and Russians had virtually no say in anything during the post soviet era as their country was run by gangs for gangs, and elections had nothing whatsoever to do with how the country was being actually run.
The mere existence of on-going elections is not democracy, and the lack of elections does not mean any lack of democracy.
In classical Athens democracy was a handful of rich white men with land who ran the deme. Foreigners, women, workers, household slaves, slaves in the mines, gay people, young people, artisans, artists, and so on were property, without a say in any way in how decisions were made.
Powell as an expert? give me a break. Old I didn't know Bush was lying about WMD?
The mechanisms of decision making are less important than the participation of the community in decisions making and transparency of decision making and equity. Octavian was just another senator when he was given the title honorary title of Caesar Augustus: de jure democracy. De facto: iron fisted dictatorship. Head Dick Lord Darth Cheney is de jure the least powerful official in all of the USA government. De Facto: iron fisted dicatorship would be Mother Theresa of Calcutta in comparison. Head Dick Cheney even ordered the President's plane to stay away on September 11th 2001, and the president himself didn't know where he was being flown to.
If I had pages I could show academically, with footnotes and hyperlinks, show just how meaningless this set of conclusions about democracy and happiness is which are asserted here. But why bother. This way we can all show just how dumb we all are by arguing about it.
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» Colin Powell!
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: The Big Raven on May 8, 2008 9:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know I know it wasnt you or your ancestors it was "SOMEONE ELSE" that treated us badly and lets not forget the injun wars that pitted a people trying to survive against people who where being taught that they were better than anyone else based on skin color and no other than god himself and his son gave the white destablizers our land????????
And fast forward to today and what REALLY changed? NOT MUCH land theft is still the order of the day and lets not forget oil.
And the biggist joke is some people really beleive that by voting things are going to change NEVER HAPPEN FOLKS we know demoncrazy is a false flag opperation.
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» White Man's Burden
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: The Big Raven on May 8, 2008 9:29 AM
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» RE: And berfore any of you tell me to go back to my own homeland
Posted by: LMNOP
» Go Home, Raven - the Monarchy needs you!
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: karyse on May 8, 2008 10:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is typical that they conflate democracy and capitalism. It is typical that they confuse voting with democracy. It is typical that they ignore the differences between a socialist democracy and a capitalist one.
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Posted by: solrev on May 8, 2008 10:43 AM
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on May 8, 2008 12:43 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then when they ask them what their favorite policy is of that candidate they are so often met with blank stares.
Then when asked to name a specific aspect or element of that policy their eyes glaze over.
The masses do not care, they will never care, an idiot and an educated informed genius should not have the same weight in their votes.
Democracy is Idiocracy.
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» RE: Democracy does not work, its more like Idiocracy???
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Democracy does not work, its more like Idiocracy
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» P.S. You have to pass a test to get your drivers license don't you?
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: P.S. You have to pass a test to get your drivers license don't you?
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Democracy does not work, its more like Idiocracy
Posted by: jonnymil
» All Things Being Equal
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Democracy does not work, its more like Idiocracy
Posted by: HoboHomo
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Posted by: Last Chance on May 8, 2008 2:10 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, when I see our American Democrats dragging each other down, I wonder if the result may be at laest 4 more years of Bush policies under McCaine, or will Bush & Cheney launch World War Three rather than surrender the White House? Rev. Hagee says go for it and Jesus will return to reward them (!)
So, I understand the Moldovan's depression, because I share it!
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Posted by: wjfaust on May 8, 2008 1:43 PM
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"Clearly, democracy is only one source of human happiness, and indeed it may not be the greatest source. Economic growth appears to affect national happiness at least as much as democracy. Economic growth helps foster trust between citizens and the state, and trust is essential to democracy. That's why in nations such as South Korea and Taiwan, a spurt of economic growth has preceded democratic reforms."
is a little dismaying and needs a caveat or two.
I hope we have learned now that economic growth is also only effective up to the point where diminishing returns set in (it becomes uneconomic) and planetary destruction follows. There is growing unhappiness now partly because basic life-sustaining needs aren't being met for many. One of the reasons is the mindless uneconomic growth that enriches the few at the expense of the many.
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» Economic growth?
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: mnatra on May 8, 2008 6:39 PM
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Posted by: PaulK on May 8, 2008 6:53 PM
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No wonder our health care costs three times the developed world's average and isn't as good as average. No wonder we have two million men in jail. No wonder we're 9 trillion dollars in debt, our jobs are leaving and the dollar is collapsing. No wonder we give our buddies Al Qaeda in Iraq billions in weapons and in cash, as long as they fight our enemies today. No wonder we haven't found Osama Bin Laden in seven years.
No wonder people choose despotic nepotism over democracy. Sometimes nepotism works better.
Lately, Congress, the Presidency and many governorships have been looking more and more like despotic nepotism.
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Posted by: navy-vet on May 9, 2008 7:26 PM
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Happiness, like democracy, is a complex process, the end result of numerous events. And who cares? I'm not always happy. Sometimes I'm angry and indignant, and it's better that I am. I can think of about twenty-five things I'd rather have than bland "happiness"--honest anger, integrity, peace, health, vigor, equal opportunity, respect, friends, and much else. When people lack these vital ingredients of a good life, it's baloney to expect them to be happy.
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Posted by: Kevin Straw on May 14, 2008 4:40 AM
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Posted by: mmckinl on May 8, 2008 12:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The study should take into account the way the so called democracy is being run. Is the country a true democracy or really another shell company for the local oligarchy and the transnational corporations?
For a true look at corporate democracy try this article:
The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism'
The fact is that "democratization" has been the "Trojan Horse" of modern colonialism, buying elections and passing trade laws that essentially subject the country to debt servitude with crony capitalism.
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» RE: Democracy or Corporatocracy... Commonwealth or Neoliberalism?
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Democracy or Corporatocracy... Commonwealth or Neoliberalism?
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Democracy or Corporatocracy... Commonwealth or Neoliberalism?
Posted by: themotie
» Liberals who complain about capitalism are shooting their own feet off.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Democracy? Where?
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Democracy? Where?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Democracy? Where?
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: WaldoMaui on May 8, 2008 3:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Huh?
I'm incredulous. We invaded Iraq and we destroyed it. Why on earth would Iraqis buy what we're selling? We Americans are the the very ones who turned them into a "distrustful, unhappy society."
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» RE: Do As I Say, Not As I Do
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: susanbm on May 8, 2008 3:36 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
these are learned skills. people who grew up in totalitarian systems have to learn a whole new skill set to function in a democracy. it's hard to grow up. it's easier to decide to remain a self indulgent child (now i'm speaking about the US population in general) and ignore the realities of the decisions that have been made.
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» RE: happiness is the wrong measurement
Posted by: rue
» Yes, its hard to grow up in totalitarian systems, such as America...
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: heid on May 8, 2008 3:38 AM
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Iraq offered up as an example of democracy?!
Puh-leeeze!
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Posted by: Windwhistler on May 8, 2008 4:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Democracy – Greece NOT!
Posted by: themotie
» Me Too
Posted by: Windwhistler
» RE: Democracy – Greece NOT!
Posted by: e rice
» Democracy
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: Purple Girl on May 8, 2008 5:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until this country scrapes the crap off our own boots we have no right to enter anyone elses. the quickest and most effiient way is to start with those who have filled our arean with crap for the last century- esp the last 40 yrs.Start with Cheney and follow his Blood and Mud prints every where they lead. Once we clean Up that mess- we will be welcomed into others homes because we will be truely only entering bearing gifts
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» RE: Depends on Who is defining and 'executing ' Democracy
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: ot on May 8, 2008 5:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Huh, well, they're reporting happiness, therefore it must be ok.
Similar research also has found that people who end up paralyzed or otherwise disabled from some accident or disease typically regain their previous level of "happiness".
But what would anyone choose given the same level of happiness: life in a wheel chair or life on two feet.
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» RE: Good grief
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Good grief
Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: Good grief
Posted by: jonnymil
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Posted by: KeepsonTickn on May 8, 2008 5:45 AM
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» Tell that to the Walmart crowd...
Posted by: 2dogarage
» no one is in control of his life,
Posted by: e rice
» Middle-class America?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Middle-class America?
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: worldancer on May 8, 2008 6:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The economic system best suited for REAL democracy is obviously a kind of culturally sensitive socialism. But the people must have reason to TRUST that its contributions to its Government will be returned in sustainable benefits for all: democracy--the unalienable right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness-shared. Historically, tragically, capitalism just doesn't play well with others.
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» Two Democracies
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Two Democracies
Posted by: worldancer
» Capitalist Multiculturalism
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Capitalist Multiculturalism
Posted by: worldancer
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Posted by: themotie on May 8, 2008 6:20 AM
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But if you have two societies, equal in all respect, but in one you are constantly told your life isn't good enough and that you could do better. Where would the self-reported happiness be greatest?
You could also imagine two identical societies, but where one have declined in public health and with increased crime, for example and the other have improved health care and is conquering crime. Where would the self-reported well-being be highest?
I don't know, but I don't see these kinds of surveys including factors like these, factors I believe are rather significant. I could also see factors like these being central to the countries in question.
My three pesos ...
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Posted by: hagwind on May 8, 2008 6:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the big selling point for democracy, and for all kinds of freedom, is that it makes us mature. It helps us grow up and take responsibility for our lives and our communities. I'm not knocking childhood, mind you. If you've got enough to eat, plenty of opportunities to play, a community that values you, and no one to take advantage of your weakness by beating you, coercing you, or forcing you to serve them, childhood is great. But it's not a good place to get stuck.
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» Childhood
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: phindrup on May 8, 2008 6:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
then there is the question of where you find these 'democracies'.
Name a country that actually holds 'free and fair' elections!
Australia? a couple of elections ago one party garnered 24 percent of the vote, and never won a seat.
The US? Please! If the UN observers attended your elections the report would read: "RIGGED".
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» Scandinavia?
Posted by: themotie
» RE: Misery under democracy
Posted by: AussieGeoff
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Posted by: ClassAct on May 8, 2008 7:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“When the Communists spoke of communism, they were lying. When they spoke of capitalism, they were telling the truth.”
I guess they would know. It is appalling that the intellectual context here is not between democracy and tyranny or capitalism and communism, but between democracy and communism – as apt as comparing apples and ponies.
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» Russians had monetary wealth, i.e. capital... rubles & gold.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Daddy had a Rubber Plantation?
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on May 8, 2008 7:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who believes that? Absolutely no one in the U.S. government, for starters. No, U.S. foreign policy is aimed at rape and pillage of other nation's basic resources, not at spreading democracy.
This article is a perfect example of how think tanks are used to package and sell Brand America to their audiences. The fact that Alternet is running so very many "Cleaning Up Brand America" articles is somewhat suspicious, to say the least.
Our government's basic agenda is to go to countries, kick open their front door, take whatever looks good, shoot whoever gets in the way, and take the goods home to the ongoing American overconsumption orgy.
Just the fact of the matter. Doesn't mean that other countries don't do the same thing, but this whole "America the Saintly" bullshit that's been promoted and fed out via the left, the right and the traditional press has got to go.
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» RE: Selling Brand America
Posted by: richholland
» Alternet and articles like this..
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: isafakir on May 8, 2008 8:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For Example: It is unimaginably absurd to say that despite democracy, post Soviet Russians were less happy. Voting in and of itself is not democratic, and Russians had virtually no say in anything during the post soviet era as their country was run by gangs for gangs, and elections had nothing whatsoever to do with how the country was being actually run.
The mere existence of on-going elections is not democracy, and the lack of elections does not mean any lack of democracy.
In classical Athens democracy was a handful of rich white men with land who ran the deme. Foreigners, women, workers, household slaves, slaves in the mines, gay people, young people, artisans, artists, and so on were property, without a say in any way in how decisions were made.
Powell as an expert? give me a break. Old I didn't know Bush was lying about WMD?
The mechanisms of decision making are less important than the participation of the community in decisions making and transparency of decision making and equity. Octavian was just another senator when he was given the title honorary title of Caesar Augustus: de jure democracy. De facto: iron fisted dictatorship. Head Dick Lord Darth Cheney is de jure the least powerful official in all of the USA government. De Facto: iron fisted dicatorship would be Mother Theresa of Calcutta in comparison. Head Dick Cheney even ordered the President's plane to stay away on September 11th 2001, and the president himself didn't know where he was being flown to.
If I had pages I could show academically, with footnotes and hyperlinks, show just how meaningless this set of conclusions about democracy and happiness is which are asserted here. But why bother. This way we can all show just how dumb we all are by arguing about it.
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» Colin Powell!
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: The Big Raven on May 8, 2008 9:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know I know it wasnt you or your ancestors it was "SOMEONE ELSE" that treated us badly and lets not forget the injun wars that pitted a people trying to survive against people who where being taught that they were better than anyone else based on skin color and no other than god himself and his son gave the white destablizers our land????????
And fast forward to today and what REALLY changed? NOT MUCH land theft is still the order of the day and lets not forget oil.
And the biggist joke is some people really beleive that by voting things are going to change NEVER HAPPEN FOLKS we know demoncrazy is a false flag opperation.
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» White Man's Burden
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: The Big Raven on May 8, 2008 9:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: And berfore any of you tell me to go back to my own homeland
Posted by: LMNOP
» Go Home, Raven - the Monarchy needs you!
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: karyse on May 8, 2008 10:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is typical that they conflate democracy and capitalism. It is typical that they confuse voting with democracy. It is typical that they ignore the differences between a socialist democracy and a capitalist one.
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Posted by: solrev on May 8, 2008 10:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on May 8, 2008 12:43 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then when they ask them what their favorite policy is of that candidate they are so often met with blank stares.
Then when asked to name a specific aspect or element of that policy their eyes glaze over.
The masses do not care, they will never care, an idiot and an educated informed genius should not have the same weight in their votes.
Democracy is Idiocracy.
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» RE: Democracy does not work, its more like Idiocracy???
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Democracy does not work, its more like Idiocracy
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» P.S. You have to pass a test to get your drivers license don't you?
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: P.S. You have to pass a test to get your drivers license don't you?
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Democracy does not work, its more like Idiocracy
Posted by: jonnymil
» All Things Being Equal
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Democracy does not work, its more like Idiocracy
Posted by: HoboHomo
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Posted by: Last Chance on May 8, 2008 2:10 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, when I see our American Democrats dragging each other down, I wonder if the result may be at laest 4 more years of Bush policies under McCaine, or will Bush & Cheney launch World War Three rather than surrender the White House? Rev. Hagee says go for it and Jesus will return to reward them (!)
So, I understand the Moldovan's depression, because I share it!
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Posted by: wjfaust on May 8, 2008 1:43 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Clearly, democracy is only one source of human happiness, and indeed it may not be the greatest source. Economic growth appears to affect national happiness at least as much as democracy. Economic growth helps foster trust between citizens and the state, and trust is essential to democracy. That's why in nations such as South Korea and Taiwan, a spurt of economic growth has preceded democratic reforms."
is a little dismaying and needs a caveat or two.
I hope we have learned now that economic growth is also only effective up to the point where diminishing returns set in (it becomes uneconomic) and planetary destruction follows. There is growing unhappiness now partly because basic life-sustaining needs aren't being met for many. One of the reasons is the mindless uneconomic growth that enriches the few at the expense of the many.
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» Economic growth?
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: mnatra on May 8, 2008 6:39 PM
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Posted by: PaulK on May 8, 2008 6:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No wonder our health care costs three times the developed world's average and isn't as good as average. No wonder we have two million men in jail. No wonder we're 9 trillion dollars in debt, our jobs are leaving and the dollar is collapsing. No wonder we give our buddies Al Qaeda in Iraq billions in weapons and in cash, as long as they fight our enemies today. No wonder we haven't found Osama Bin Laden in seven years.
No wonder people choose despotic nepotism over democracy. Sometimes nepotism works better.
Lately, Congress, the Presidency and many governorships have been looking more and more like despotic nepotism.
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Posted by: navy-vet on May 9, 2008 7:26 PM
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Happiness, like democracy, is a complex process, the end result of numerous events. And who cares? I'm not always happy. Sometimes I'm angry and indignant, and it's better that I am. I can think of about twenty-five things I'd rather have than bland "happiness"--honest anger, integrity, peace, health, vigor, equal opportunity, respect, friends, and much else. When people lack these vital ingredients of a good life, it's baloney to expect them to be happy.
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Posted by: Kevin Straw on May 14, 2008 4:40 AM
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