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Hillary Struggles Against Sexism But Regularly Plays Race Card
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Watching the brass ring of the presidency slip out of Clinton's grasp as she is buffeted by this torrent of misogyny, women -- white women, that is, and mainstream feminists especially -- have rallied to her defense. On January 8, after Barack Obama beat Clinton in the Iowa caucuses, Gloria Steinem published a New York Times op-ed titled "Women Are Never Front-Runners." "Gender is probably the most restricting force in American life, whether the question is who must be in the kitchen or who could be in the White House," Steinem wrote. Next came Clinton's famous "misting-over moment" in New Hampshire in response to a question from a woman about the stress of modern campaigning. For that display of emotion, Clinton was derided, on the one hand, as calculating and chameleonlike -- "It could be that big girls don't cry ... but it could be that if they do they win," said Chris Matthews -- and, on the other, as lacking "strength and resolve," as her Democratic rival John Edwards put it, in a jab at the perennial Achilles' heel of women candidates. Riding a wave of female sympathy, Clinton won New Hampshire in what was dubbed an "anti-Chris Matthews vote."
Thus, feminist opposition to the sexist treatment of Hillary Clinton has morphed into support for the candidate herself. In February Robin Morgan published a reprise of her famous 1970 essay "Goodbye to All That," exhorting women to embrace Clinton as a protest against "sociopathic woman-hating." In the Los Angeles Times, Leslie Bennetts, author of The Feminine Mistake, wrote of older female voters fed up with the media's dismissive treatment of Clinton: "There are signs the slumbering beast may be waking up -- and she's not in a happy mood." A recent New York magazine article titled "The Feminist Reawakening: Hillary Clinton and the Fourth Wave" described how "it isn't just the 'hot flash cohort'...that broke for Clinton. Women in their thirties and forties -- at once discomfited and galvanized by the sexist tenor of the media coverage, by the nastiness of the watercooler talk in the office, by the realization that the once-foregone conclusion of Clinton-as-president might never come to be -- did too."
The sexist attacks on Clinton are outrageous and deplorable, but there's reason to be concerned about her becoming the vehicle for a feminist reawakening. For one thing, feminist sympathy for her has begotten an "oppression sweepstakes" in which a number of her prominent supporters, dismayed at her upstaging by Obama, have declared a contest between racial and gender bias and named sexism the greater scourge. This maneuver is not only unhelpful for coalition-building but obstructs understanding of how sexism and racism have played out in this election in different (and interrelated) ways.
Yet what is most troubling -- and what has the most serious implications for the feminist movement -- is that the Clinton campaign has used her rival's race against him. In the name of demonstrating her superior "electability," she and her surrogates have invoked the racist and sexist playbook of the right -- in which swaggering macho cowboys are entrusted to defend the country -- seeking to define Obama as too black, too foreign, too different to be President at a moment of high anxiety about national security. This subtly but distinctly racialized political strategy did not create the media feeding frenzy around the Rev. Jeremiah Wright that is now weighing Obama down, but it has positioned Clinton to take advantage of the opportunities the controversy has presented. And the Clinton campaign's use of this strategy has many non-white and non-mainstream feminists crying foul.
While 2008 was never going to be a "postracial" campaign, the early racially tinged skirmishes between the Clinton and Obama camps seemed containable. There were references by Clinton campaign officials to Obama's admission of past drug use; the tit-for-tat over Clinton's tone-deaf but historically accurate statement that Martin Luther King needed Lyndon Johnson for his civil rights dreams to be realized; and insinuations that Obama is a token, unqualified, overreaching -- that he's all pretty words, "fairy tales" and no action.
From the point of view of Obama's supporters, the edge was taken off some of these conflicts by the mere fact of his stunning electoral success, built as it was on significant white support. Melissa Harris-Lacewell, a professor of politics and African-American studies at Princeton and an Obama volunteer, recalls that for black Americans "Iowa was an astonishing moment -- watching Barack win the caucus felt like Reconstruction. There was something powerful about feeling as though you were a full citizen." In democracy, Harris-Lacewell explains, "the ruled and rulers are supposed to be the same people. The idea that black folks could be engaged in the process of being rulers over not just black folks but over the nation as a whole struck me as very powerful."
Soon enough, however, that powerful idea came under attack.
"More than any single thing, that moment with Bill Clinton in South Carolina represents the rupture that was coming," says Harris-Lacewell. The moment occurred in late January, when the former President compared Obama's landslide win, in which he received a major boost from African-American voters, to Jesse Jackson's victories there in 1984 and 1988. Because the former President offered the comparison unprompted, in response to a question that had nothing to do with Jackson or race, the statement was widely read as chalking up Obama's win to his blackness alone and thus attempting to marginalize him as a doomed minority candidate with limited appeal. Obama was now "the black candidate," in the words of one Clinton strategist quoted by the AP.
By March, multiple videos of Wright, Obama's former pastor, had popped up on YouTube and had begun to play on an endless loop in the right-wing media. "God damn America for treating your citizens as less than human," Wright inveighed, reciting a litany of racial complaints. And he said in his sermon immediately following 9/11, "America's chickens are coming home to roost."
According to Smith College professor Paula Giddings, author of a new biography of Ida B. Wells, Ida: A Sword Among Lions and the Campaign Against Lynching, Wright's angry invocation of race and nation tapped into a reservoir of doubt about the very Americanness of African-Americans. "American citizenship has always been racialized as white. Who is a true American? Are African-Americans true Americans? That has been the question," she says.
In Obama's case -- given his mixed-race lineage, his Kenyan father, his experiences growing up in Indonesia, his middle name (Hussein) -- questions about his devotion to America carry a special potency, as xenophobia mingles with racism to create a poisonous brew. The toxicity is further heightened in this post-9/11 atmosphere, in which an image of Obama in Somali dress is understood as a slur and e-mails claiming that he is a "secret Muslim" schooled in a madrassa spread virally, along with rumors that he took the oath of office on a Koran. The madrassa and Koran canards have been thoroughly debunked, but still they persist -- and few have been willing to stand up and say, So what if he was a Muslim? For her part, Clinton, asked on 60 Minutes whether Obama was a Muslim, said, "There is nothing to base that on, as far as I know."
Giddings calls the Wright association a "litmus test" that Obama must pass, saying, "It will be interesting to see if a man of color, a man who's cosmopolitan, can be the quintessential symbol of America" as its President.
Obama initially responded to that challenge with his speech in Philadelphia on March 18. While condemning Wright's words, he placed them in a historical context of racial oppression and said, "I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community." (More recently, of course, Obama did renounce him.) But in the Philadelphia speech, called "A More Perfect Union," Obama also outlined a racially universal definition of American citizenship and affirmed his commitment to represent all Americans as President. "I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together -- unless we perfect our union by understanding that we have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction."
A mere three days after Obama spoke those words, Bill Clinton made this statement in North Carolina about a potential Clinton-McCain general election matchup: "I think it'd be a great thing if we had an election year where you had two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interest of this country. And people could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics." Whether or not this statement constituted McCarthyism, as one Obama surrogate alleged and as Clinton supporters vigorously denied, the timing of the remark made its meaning quite clear: controversies relating to Obama's race render him less fit than either Hillary or McCain to run for president as a patriotic American. A couple of weeks later, Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen went so far as to call on Obama to make another speech, modeled after John F. Kennedy's declaration in 1960 that, despite his Catholicism, he would respect the separation of church and state as President -- as though Obama's blackness were a sign of allegiance to some entity, like the Vatican, other than the United States of America.
In the Democratic debates, enabled by the moderators, Hillary Clinton has increasingly deployed issues of race and patriotism as a wedge strategy against her opponent. First, in the debate in Cleveland on February 26, she pressed Obama not only to denounce but to reject Louis Farrakhan -- to whom he was spuriously linked through Reverend Wright, who had taken a trip with the black nationalist leader in the 1980s. In style as well as content, that attack was a harbinger of things to come. In the most recent debate, ABC's George Stephanopolous and Charles Gibson peppered Obama with questions such as, "Do you believe [Wright] is as patriotic as you are?" and, regarding former Weatherman Bill Ayers, a Chicago neighbor and Obama supporter, "Can you explain that relationship for the voters and explain to Democrats why it won't be a problem?" Time after time, Clinton picked up the line and ran with it. "You know, these are problems, and they raise questions in people's minds. And so this is a legitimate area...for people to be exploring and trying to find answers," she said, seeming to abandon her argument that these issues are fair game now only because they will be raised by Republicans later and thus are relevant to an evaluation of Obama's electability.
The Wright, Farrakhan and Ayers controversies have been fueled by a craven media, and ABC's performance in the debate has rightly been condemned. But given that Clinton is the one who is running for President and who purports to represent liberal ideals, her complicity in such attempts to establish guilt by association is far more troubling. While she has dealt gingerly with the matter of Wright in the wake of his recent appearance at the National Press Club -- accusing Republicans of politicizing the issue -- she also took pains to remind reporters that she "would not have stayed in that church under those circumstances."
It's disappointing, to say the least, to see the first viable female contender for the presidency participate in attacks on her black opponent's patriotism, which exploit an anxious climate around national security that gives white men an edge both over women and people of color -- who tend to be viewed, respectively, as weak and potentially traitorous. Says Paula Giddings, "This idea of nationalism and patriotism pulling at everyone has demanded hypermasculine men, more like McCain than the feline Obama, and demanded women whose role is to be maternal more than anything else."
For Hillary Clinton, the gendered terrain of post-9/11 national security politics has been treacherous indeed. As Elizabeth Drew observed in The New York Review of Books, Clinton took steps in the Senate, like joining the Armed Services Committee, "to protect herself from the sexist notion that a woman might be soft on national security." As a 2002 study by the White House Project, a women's leadership group, found, "Women candidates start out with a serious disadvantage -- voters tend to view women as less effective and tough. Recent events of war, terrorism, and recession have only...increased the salience of these dimensions." Clinton has been quite successful in allaying these concerns, although she faces a Catch-22: her reputed toughness and ruthlessness have helped ratchet up her high negatives. The White House Project study found that a woman candidate faces a unique tension between the need to show herself "in a light that is personally appealing, while also showing that she has the kind of strength needed for the job she is seeking."
Of course, Clinton's decision to play the hawk may have had other motivations. Perhaps she really believed that voting to authorize the war in Iraq was the right thing to do (which is, arguably, even more worrying). But her posture in this campaign -- threatening to "totally obliterate" Iran after being asked how she would respond in the highly improbable event of an Iranian nuclear strike against Israel, for example -- has at least something to do with a desire to compete on a macho foreign policy playing field. It's the woman in this Democratic primary race who has the cowboy swagger: the nationalist and militaristic rhetoric, the whiskey-swilling photo-ops, the gotcha attacks for perceived insults to a working-class electorate (as in "Bittergate") that is usually depicted as white and male.
Clinton has, to be sure, faced a raw misogyny that has been more out in the open than the racial attacks on Obama have been. But while sexism may be more casually accepted, racism, which is often coded, is more insidious and trickier to confront. Clinton's response to "Iron my shirt" was immediate and straightforward: "Oh, the remnants of sexism, alive and well." Says Kimberlé Crenshaw, law professor at Columbia and UCLA and executive director of the African American Policy Forum, "While sexism can be denounced more directly, that doesn't mean it's worse. Things that are racist have yet to be labeled and understood as such."
While on occasion Obama's campaign has complained of racial slights, Obama himself has avoided raising the charge directly. Even so, Clinton supporters make the twisted claim that it is Obama who has racialized the campaign. "While promoting Obama as a 'post-racial' figure, his campaign has purposefully polluted the contest with a new strain of what historically has been the most toxic poison in American politics," wrote Sean Wilentz in The New Republic in an article titled "Race Man." Bill Clinton recently groused that the Obama camp, in the controversy over his Jackson remark, "played the race card on me."
As for the way the Clinton campaign has dealt with race, Crenshaw says, "It started with a small drumbeat, but as the campaign has proceeded, as Hillary has taken part in things, more people are really seeing this as a 'line in the sand' kind of moment."
Among the black feminists interviewed for this article, reactions to the declarations of sexism's greater toll by Clinton supporters -- and their demand that all women back their candidate out of gender solidarity, regardless of the broader politics of the campaign -- ran the gamut from astonishment to dismay to fury. Patricia Hill Collins, a sociology professor at the University of Maryland and author of Black Feminist Thought, recalls how, before they were reduced to their race or gender, the candidates were not seen solely through the prism of identity, and many Democrats were thrilled with the choices before them. But of the present, she says, "It is such a distressing, ugly period. Clinton has manipulated ideas about race, but Obama has not manipulated similar ideas about gender." This has exacerbated longstanding racial tensions within the women's movement, Collins notes, and is likely to alienate young black women who might otherwise have been receptive to feminism. "We had made progress in getting younger black women to see that gender does matter in their lives. Now they are going to ask, What kind of white woman is Hillary Clinton?"
The sense of progress unraveling is profound. "What happened to the perspective that the failures of feminism lay in pandering to racism, to everyone nodding that these were fatal mistakes -- how is it that all that could be jettisoned?" asks Crenshaw, who co-wrote a piece with Eve Ensler on the Huffington Post called "Feminist Ultimatums: Not in Our Name." Crenshaw says that, appalled as she is by the sexism toward Clinton, she found herself stunned by some of the arguments pro-Hillary feminists were making. "There is a myopic focus on the aspiration of having a woman in the White House -- perhaps not any woman, but it seems to be pretty much enough that she be a Democratic woman." This stance, says Crenshaw, "is really a betrayal."
Frances Kissling, the former president of Catholics for a Free Choice, attributes this go-for-broke attitude to the mindset of corporate feminism. "There's a way in which feminists who have been seriously engaged in electoral politics for a long time, the institutional DC feminist leadership, they are just with Hillary Clinton come hell or high water. I think they have accepted, as she has accepted, a similar career trajectory. They are not uncomfortable with what has gone on in the campaign, because they see electoral campaigns as mere instruments for getting elected. This is just the way it is. We have to get elected."
The implications of all this for the future of feminism depend significantly on the outcome of the primary, says Kissling. "If Clinton wins, the older-line women's movement will continue; it will be a continuation of power for them. If she doesn't win, it will be a death knell for those people. And that may be a good thing -- that a younger generation will start to take over."
Many younger women, indeed, have responded to the admonishments of their pro-Hillary second-wave elders by articulating a sophisticated political orientation that includes feminism but is not confined to it. They may support Obama, but they still abhor the sexism Clinton has faced. And they detect -- and reject -- a tinge of sexism among male peers who have developed man-crushes on the dashing senator from Illinois. "Even while they voice dismay over the retro tone of the pro-Clinton feminist whine, a growing number of young women are struggling to describe a gut conviction that there is something dark and funky, and probably not so female-friendly, running below the frantic fanaticism of their Obama-loving compatriots," wrote Rebecca Traister in Salon.
It's not just young feminists who have taken such a nuanced view. Calling themselves Feminists for Peace and Obama, 1,500 prominent progressive feminists -- including Kissling, Barbara Ehrenreich and this magazine's Katha Pollitt -- signed on to a statement endorsing him and disavowing Clinton's militaristic politics. "Issues of war and peace are also part of a feminist agenda," they declared.
In some sense, this is a clarifying moment as well as a wrenching one. For so many years, feminists have been engaged in a pushback against the right that has obscured some of the real and important differences among them. "Today you see things you might not have seen. It's clearer now about where the lines are between corporate feminism and more grassroots, global feminism," says Crenshaw. Women who identify with the latter movement are saying, as she puts it, "'Wait a minute, that's not the banner we are marching under!'"
Feminist Obama supporters of all ages and hues, meanwhile, are hoping that he comes out of this bruising primary with his style of politics intact. While he calls it "a new kind of politics," Clinton and Obama are actually very similar in their records and agendas (which is perhaps why this contest has fixated so obsessively on their gender and race). But in his rhetoric and his stance toward the world outside our borders, Obama does appear to offer a way out of the testosterone-addled GOP framework. As he said after losing Pennsylvania, "We can be a party that thinks the only way to look tough on national security is to talk, and act, and vote like George Bush and John McCain. We can use fear as a tactic and the threat of terrorism to scare up votes. Or we can decide that real strength is asking the tough questions before we send our troops to fight."
As comedian Chris Rock quipped, Bush "fucked up so bad that he's made it hard for a white man to run for President." Rock spoke too soon: many are hungry for a shift, but the country needs the right push to get there. Unfortunately, from Hillary Clinton, it's getting a shove in the wrong direction.
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Posted by: venkat on May 2, 2008 12:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LobbyDelegates.com Lets Ordinary Voices Be Heard
The unconstrained votes of some 800 top Democratic Party officials, known as Super Delegates, now matter even more following the Pennsylvania Primary, which continued to leave both Presidential candidates short of the 2,024 primary-pledged delegates needed to secure the nomination.
Those believing these Party insiders (who include governors, mayors, state and Congressional lawmakers) should be more accountable to rank-and-file Democrats, can now have their voices heard through www.LobbyDelegates.com. This one-stop portal is the first and only one empowering grassroots Democrats to directly communicate with their state’s Super Delegates – via email, fax or postal letters.
LobbyDelegates.com maintains lists of Super Delegates who have endorsed Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama or are still uncommitted. Users can, with one click, target all uncommitted Super Delegates and urge them to publicly endorse a certain candidate, or remain uncommitted. Users can similarly lobby Super Delegates to keep an existing commitment, or switch to the other candidate.
Although Sen. Obama leads with 1,490 pledged delegates to 1,336 for Sen. Clinton, neither would attain 2,024 even if one or the other won two-thirds of the remaining primary delegates. While Clinton leads among Super Delegates, 259 to 235, Obama has narrowed this gap steadily over the past six weeks. Over 300 Super Delegates remain uncommitted.
The LobbyDelegates.com website is strictly independent, and is not aligned with any political party, candidate, campaign or advocacy group. LobbyDelegates.com was created as a public service under the auspices of the nonprofit StateDemocracy Foundation, whose similar civic engagement website, www.StateDemocracy.com, is dedicated to delivering democracy to your desktop by connecting citizens and lawmakers.
Thousands have visited LobbyDelegates.com since it was launched on April 3. Since then, the website has been upgraded by adding a blog, the ability to invite friends, and free email delivery.
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» RE:Proof Hillary cannot win the Dem primary
Posted by: Christie
» RE: Proof Hillary cannot win the Dem primary
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: leta on May 2, 2008 1:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Struggles against sexism?
Posted by: mandy
» RE: Struggles against sexism?
Posted by: chuckjs
» RE: Struggles against sexism?
Posted by: eek
» RE: Struggles against sexism?
Posted by: metryjen
» Out with logic, on with lunacy
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Struggles against sexism?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Struggles against sexism?
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Struggles against sexism? OR THE RACE CARD
Posted by: niliadis
» RE: You're Wrong
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: NoPCZone on May 2, 2008 1:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have no problem with the idea of voting for a woman to be our President but I have a real serious problem with Shillary/Shrillary/Billary. Wouldn't let her pick up my garbage, much less vote for her. My estimation of the average IQ in New York dropped by at least 50% when they gave this carpetbagger from Arkansas, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Transylvania a Senate seat. It dropped again when the re-elected her.
She is a closeted NeoCon corporatist with a "D" behind her name and is willing to burn down the house (the Democratic Party) to get what she wants- POWER. She needs to come out of the closet so that she can be John McSame's running mate.
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» RE: Get Real - AMEN
Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: Get Real - AMEN SECONDED - but not the second paragraph
Posted by: corinne122
» RE: Get Real
Posted by: SusanMcGee
» RE: Get Real
Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Get Real
Posted by: SusanMcGee
» RE: Get Real
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: Get Real--Your Para 2 AND 3 are moronic:
Posted by: jvaljon1
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Posted by: luciennh on May 2, 2008 3:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let us the voters study the congressional records and past history of each of the candidates running for presidential office.
"Beware of Wolve's in Sheeps clothing". Hillary Clinton will tell you what pleases your ego and put her arms around your children...but see what she tried to do more than a decade ago, but was "stopped". Yes, she WILL garnish our paychecks with her Mandatory Healthcare plan. No Freedom of choice.
Just check the 1996 bill submitted to congress by Hillary Clinton and look who saved all America's butts, which includes all our children. Please begin your learning experience here:
Hillary"s Records
Hillary Congressional Records
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» RE: Hillary Clinton Past Records
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Hillary Clinton Past Records
Posted by: Bibsisis
» Are you NUTS? Or just a NeoMORON?
Posted by: jvaljon1
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Posted by: www.suekatz.com on May 2, 2008 4:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robin Morgan et al have never spoken for many of us (and I'm 60, involved since the 60s). There's been a perennial division inside the feminist movement between those who claim to sit atop a pyramid of oppressions and those of us who consider these oppressions inter-related. This is a classic division between liberals - too often motivated by class self-interest - and those who know the whole system needs fundamentally re-vamped.
For me feminism is a vision, not a single-issue view. I always disliked Clinton for her war-mongering and knee-jerk hawkish reactions. But the way she has run her campaign, especially around race - and the tone of her feminist supporters - has done more than turn me off. It's been one of the most depressing aspects of an increasingly depressing campaign season.
Thanks again for the intelligence of this piece,
Sue
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» RE: Beware assumptions about older feminists
Posted by: hagwind
» Feminism and the CIA: formation of wedge issues in anti-war activist groups.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Feminism and the CIA: formation of wedge issues in anti-war activist groups.
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Beware assumptions about older feminists
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: Beware assumptions about older feminists
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Beware assumptions about older feminists
Posted by: niliadis
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Posted by: Nightstallion on May 2, 2008 4:22 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one who is a thinking individual can forget the Mena Fiasco. Those who bounce eyebrows and get all defensive simply were not on the political scene at the time or are totally brain-dead. I was up until then a lifetime Democrat. I was cured by all that money laundering they did.
When George Bush took office due to Democratic blundering and ballot thievery at the poles I became a Confederate. The American Constitution first and States Rights second NO MORE FEDERATION! Fuck the Federalists is my motto now! Demonrats and Republicons are both FEDERALISTS, PEOPLE!
That is they BOTH work to keep Governance above the law of the land by making the Group not the Individual responsible for any crime committed under their aegis. Wonderful, all that finger pointing is intended to Confuse John Q. Public into dismissing the whole thing for lack of a perpetrator. Well, FORNICATE ‘EM! The lot of them, TOSS THE WHOLE KIT AND KABOODLE of them into the FEDERAL PEN!
Then go out and recruit street people to come in to fill their positions, I am willing to bank that then you would see democracy in action. Totally nuts for six weeks then down to business of sorts. But I bet my butt that any of the down and outers would NOT let Halliburton or the Religionists into the Whitehouse.
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» RE: ace? Gender? Is this all you see of this murderous swine?
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: Race? Gender?
Posted by: Nightstallion
» RE: ace? Gender?
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 2, 2008 4:25 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the Dems are smart (wishful thinking, I know, just bear with me) they'll find a "compromise candidate" that the party can rally behind. I realize that this is a bit of a long shot. The last time anything that something like that happened was the Republican convention of 1920 which gave America the hapless Warren G. Harding of Ohio. The bitter fight which led to his nomination didn't do the GOP much harm in the long run. He and his running mate, Calvin Coolidge of Vermont, easily defeated the Democratic ticket of James Cox of Ohio and (GET THIS!) Franklin Delano Roosevelt of New York!
Let's be perfectly clear about this: Hillary Clinton is never going to be the president of the United States. It is not because she is a woman, it is because the American people are sick of her and her husband.
Wake up and smell the B.S. Democrats!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Post #151: Random Thoughts
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» RE: John McCain: 44th President
Posted by: writer7
» RE: John McCain: 44th President
Posted by: LTBROWN
» RE: LTBROWN
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: LTBROWN
Posted by: thealltheone
» RE: John McCain: 44th President
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: writer7 on May 2, 2008 4:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: never
Posted by: richieb
» RE: How many do you want?
Posted by: larryfhilton
» RE: never
Posted by: RobNLA
» RE: never
Posted by: desidid
» RE: never
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: never
Posted by: kimbari
» Molly Ivins agreed with you
Posted by: fanny666
» RE: never
Posted by: maggzilla
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Posted by: Purple Girl on May 2, 2008 4:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 'Sexism' you inaacurately portray is Nothing- 'Stick & Stones may break my bones - but words will never hurt me'. Women who have actually faced real SExism know what is being called sexism is nothing more then metaphors and analogies referring to the fact she is female. Woman like me have faced real sexism resulting in discrimation- Not being considered the best candidate for a job when we truely are the Best. Getting paid Less when we meet or exceed the males abilities. We realize and acknowledge when a male is better then us at things andexpect the same be returned. We set the bar and tone and are fighting everyday to that end. We are the Libbers- equality for All. It appears that some females have decided that 'Payback is a Bitch'- literally and figuratively. they will support a female regardless of their qualifications or even against their own interests. Let's be Honest about the last 35 yrs- sticking only to Womens issues- We've only gotten a 2 cent raise ($0.77/41.00) Roe v Wade has lost ground and is now nearly gone. Birth control still not readily available, Abstenence education,Rate of sexually transmitted disease in Teen girls, # of woman killed by husbands & boyfriends (cheaper to kill her seems to be the new adage), Rape of Service Woman......I could Write a doctorial dissertation in what we have lost in 35 yrs!
Then consider Hillary's Action adn InActions while in the Senate, The Armed Servcies Com (con) and esp on the Campaign trail- If she were male she would not be where she is Now, Unless a Republican Propped Up By the Cheney machine - she's their 2nd horse in the Race.
Seh is NOT the Right person For the Job, in fact I think she should not only be kicked out of the Dem party. lose her job in the Senate- but be facing Charges for Dereliciton of Duty- along with therest on the Armed Services, poss Complicity and Treason Too. I am NOt voting for her because she is a Woman- I'm Not Voting For her Because she has proven her Allegience to the 'Shadow Gov't' and she is lying to get a Job. Feminist= revenge at all costs. Libber= Equal Rights For All
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» RE: 'Feminist' vs "Libbers"
Posted by: binkey
» RE: 'Feminist' vs "Libbers"
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: Livemike on May 2, 2008 4:42 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: WRT Limbaugh subjecting people to his physique.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: WRT Limbaugh subjecting people to his physique.
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SEDGFLD on May 2, 2008 4:45 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans should be demanding that the media concentrate on the issues instead of them demanding from one candidate what they don't demand from another in trying to protect the very lucrative status achieved by siding with a particular candidate and protecting that candidate by shifting attention elsewhere.
The nonsense going on now is an excuse for those who are looking for excuses for not supporting a canidate they didn't want to endorse from the beginning.
It's time for us to start being honest with ourselves and others as to the state of affairs in this country and then, maybe, the majority of us can stop playing the hateful and divisive game we've played each of the last few elections that have been manipulated by media personalities pretending to be honest journalists.
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» RE: Voter Complicity
Posted by: willymack
» RE: Voter Complicity
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Magginkat on May 2, 2008 4:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By the way is there any writer alive who can write an article today without using the word
misogyny? Personally, in all my life I don't think that I have ever been so sick of any single over used word as this one.
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» RE: Disappointing Article
Posted by: LTBROWN
» RE: Disappointing Article
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Disappointing Article
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Disappointing Article
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Disappointing Article
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
» RE: Disappointing Article
Posted by: improperly_sedated
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LTBROWN on May 2, 2008 4:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, they've turned on us. They've backstabbed the black community. Hillary has foreclosed on the black community at a time when we would have needed her to carry us like we carried them.
I've hated dirty, namecalling politics since I was a child. I always saw it as, someone with nothing real to say, trying to stir up a fight at the monkey bars, to keep kids after school. Only because the bully had nothing to go home too.
Hillary, run on your own merits if you feel you have any. You should be the last candidate playing dirty politics.
Get to the issues, right now. Like Obama is.
Rev. Wright is not running for any office. So what he says is not important. There is no monolithic thinking among black people no more then any other race. Bigots act like we have to have some leader. Like those days of leaving a mark X, and someone else sign for us. We read, write and think for ourselves america. Don't let these Jim Crow politics mislead you into thinking we are asleep. My leader is God, not any man or woman. Don't dare insult me with the crap on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC and others. No one speaks on my behalf. No way. We speak for ourselves. My pastor doesn't speak for me, no more then Barack's speak for him.
American's need to stop being duped. Get focused and lets hold these candidates to the issues that we care about.
Gas is over $4 a gallon and showing no signes of coming down. Tell me when my family is coming home from Iraq to stay. Tell me I can keep my home. I could care less what is said in pulpit. None of us really take it as gospel when it offends our person. So why let the media, snippet you to a foolish action?
Where are the independent thinkers?
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» RE: I have no respect left for the Clintons
Posted by: AWestColbert
» RE: I have no respect left for the Clintons
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: You should be greatefull for the Clintons and likewise
Posted by: niliadis
» RE: You should be greatefull for the Clintons and likewise
Posted by: Agi
» RE: I have no respect left for the Clintons
Posted by: maggzilla
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chuckjs on May 2, 2008 5:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I don't know why even women support this....
Posted by: richieb
» RE: I don't know why even women support this....
Posted by: laurelgreen
» RE: I don't know why even women support this....
Posted by: Rune
» RE: I don't know why even women support this....
Posted by: thealltheone
» RE: I don't know why even women support this....get real
Posted by: niliadis
» That can pretty well be summarized as:
Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: I don't know why even women support this....
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: supercrisp on May 2, 2008 5:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: KISS
Posted by: LTBROWN
» RE: KISS
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: KISS
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jasonix on May 2, 2008 5:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact that media doesn't question Clinton's lack of credentials, or pose the question of how a former FLOTUS becoming president would cause deep and lasting national shame that would demolish whatever is left of America's reputation as a modern state, proves that Clinton is not subject to media's "sexism," but benefits from the media's desire to avoid even the oblique appearance of it.
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» RE: Cowards who rate other folks' comments "1" anonymously...
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Cowards who rate other folks' comments "1" anonymously...
Posted by: Moira61
» AMEN, Jasonnix. That's why I blow off #1 ratings. They don't mean squat!
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Cowards who rate other folks' comments "1" anonymously...
Posted by: kimbari
» RE: Cowards who rate other folks' comments "1" anonymously...
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: xcuse me, but since when was being married to someone an accomplishment feministsts were proud of?
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: US Citizen on May 2, 2008 5:32 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hillary Not a Master Politician
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Hillary Not a Master Politician
Posted by: thealltheone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Southern Gal on May 2, 2008 5:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: domelady on May 2, 2008 5:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both were statement of fact. We don't know Sen. Obama, that is why his pie in the sky is a fairy tale, and Jesse Jackson did win SC twice.
Who was the outraged blogger no one knows.
I have heard Sen Obama refer to Sen Clinton as Anne Oakley and much worse, since Anne Oakley was a hero to many little American girls in her day. He is condesending and plays the race card time and time again, but since HE is a black man no one is offended.
Apparently it is ok for a black to be racist but don't let a white person feel anything but love and acceptance or they are branded! I and many people I meet are sick and tired of being called racist just because we don't agree with the Sen. with NO experience on the national scene! Remember only a N.... can call another black person a N..... that comes from interviews of black people I have heard on tv.
Wake up this is no time for another President in training.
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» RE: Domelady
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: Domelady
Posted by: domelady
» RE: Domelady
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Domelady
Posted by: LucasRandles
» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Domelady
Posted by: desidid
» just a reminder:
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» When will we ever learn?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Domelady
Posted by: maggzilla
» RE: Domelady
Posted by: rickiey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: outsideagitator on May 2, 2008 6:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is unclear just how damaging the Reverend Wright's egocentric attack on Barack Obama and his campaign and his supporters will be but there is no uncertainty about the damage Senator Clinton's campaign is causing to the progressive wing of the party. Should she get the nomination I believe that the Dems will loose because too many people will just not vote for her.
I say that with great sadness. I think I am loosing some old friends in this fight.
Joseph
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» RE: What a tragedy in the making.
Posted by: Agi
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Posted by: GPFrank on May 2, 2008 6:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
used in the 1944 election, when admittedly he had nothing new to add in policies to what was then being accomplished' "I can get it for you wholesale."
From her attending enclaves of the secretive religious "The Family" group of elites including South American dictators to her familiarity with neo-cons she is touting her being in with the in-groups and using her head to crack all the glass ceilings. That is to the point of offering an oil tax benefit ostensibly for summer travelers but really amounting to another subsidy for the oil companies.
She ostensibly brags about her "Democratic" version of K street and therefore claims is not a hypocrite like her opponent.
But most of all she wants to demonstrate her "inness" with the Pentagon and intelligence wonks that she believes in her country right or wrong, by demonstrating her willingness to lie for her country, for all her dissimulation and lies she continues to tell; in all that sneakiness about "giving Bush authority" to invade Iraq but not herself declaring war.
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Posted by: BST on May 2, 2008 6:32 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary Clinton has been directly and consistently vilified using old gender slams about looks and age, voice and stature.
She has NOT engaged in race baiting; it is the media has taken every dig from Clinton about Obama and spun it into reference to his race.
As Bill Clinton, also pinned as being a racist, finally pointed out with frustration: Not with an office that's always been on 125th Street (instead of, let's say, Trump Tower.)
You say: "Thus, feminist opposition to the sexist treatment of Hillary Clinton has morphed into support for the candidate.."
Perhaps with some women, but not with this one. (And how many blacks back Obama simply because of his race? I notice this tends to be applauded as the hope of people who have for so long felt disenfranchised).
I will continue to swim against the tide of reproach against Clinton, weighing all of her time in office and the many kudos she has received that are never reported.
I want her to become the next President. She will be flawed yet terrific.
I find THIS article to be sexist. We women really CAN think and act beyond blind fealty.
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» RE: Oh, pullllleeeeze
Posted by: laurelgreen
» RE: Oh, pullllleeeeze
Posted by: DC2008
» RE: Oh, pullllleeeeze
Posted by: mustaang
» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Oh, pullllleeeeze
Posted by: kimbari
» RE: Oh, pullllleeeeze
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Oh, pullllleeeeze
Posted by: hagwind
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Q30 on May 2, 2008 6:51 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, Michelle Obama doesn't support Hillary. Is she a woman-hater too? Just curious.
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» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: Christie
Comments are closed-
Posted by: davisp on May 2, 2008 6:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's hope that Obama can stay above this kind of destructive opportunism.
Peggy Cooper Davis
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» RE: Brava for Facing Up to the Ugliness of Clinton's Campaign!
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Brava for Facing Up to the Ugliness of Clinton's Campaign!
Posted by: maggzilla
Comments are closed-
Posted by: allhailtheduikkkinglush on May 2, 2008 7:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
monopoly at the hands of billhillary, attack
Hillbillary utilizing sexism techniques and you
blame democrats. the clintons at it again
dividing the democrats
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Posted by: alihirsch on May 2, 2008 7:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was a prank perpetrated by two young Boston radio geeks, just a way to get a story on the radio, but the mainstream media reported the story as if it were an example of true sexism, and that Clinton showed strength and calm in her response to it. Many once-undecided women voters in NH cited the incident as provoking their anger and prompting their sympathy vote for Clinton.
See www.newsbusters.org and www.hotair.com for some real reporting on this mythical sexist incident.
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» RE: "Iron my shirts" was faux sexism
Posted by: maggzilla
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Posted by: joze46 on May 2, 2008 8:04 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something else, but little talked about was something MSNBC telecast several days ago which blast open a barrier in racist examination no could have ever predicated, but shows in monumental order the race bating cable news has been doing. Brain Williams in a round robin discussion on MSNBC hosted a telecast to be sure will never be aired again. This is true; one of the Black political analysts came forward with a real shot across Integration front, for a primer racist statement. Here, she said Black/ White baby parenting produced prettier babies than Black/ Black baby parenting. Yikes. Well America Integration really has some questions now and MSNBC is avoiding all responsibility about this one, likely some how will blame it on the Clintons. LOL
Lately O’Reilly unloaded on MSNBC as a side addition exclaiming that the parent Company, GE, is doing business with Iran and the CEO knows it. Specifically mentioning the relationship to the weapons and IED’s used against our troops is perhaps supplied or supported by GE? Sheezam, Wide open treason is implied here. This is a most incredible statement, if true has similar damage as Obama has by all of sudden coming forward to realize his friend Reverend Wright is not the same person he knew twenty years ago.
For me, this notion of meeting secretly, with his Reverend Wright to censor himself when he ran for the Illinois Senate, in the basement before Obama initialized his Senatorial election shows enough hidden energy that Obama, will and, is doing a whole lot that not just as any politician does, but that is ruining the reputation of people of color, especially those of light skin, sneaking and lying about a truth that he himself knew and felt along time ago. It’s incredible that many don’t see this monument flaw in character that failed Martin Luther King’s basic test. No, Obama fail’s Judeo-Christian believes that are ideals made long before MLK. So, here do we have political supporters for Obama very willing to meet in the basement to conjure and scheme political policy for America.
From my view absolutely disgusting, Obama’s openly displays secret corruption and censure for favorite personal reasons rather then basic to Constitutional values of separation of Church and State. Here, now, as suggested by Sean Hannity Obama is part of a Black Radical movement and trying to separate from it while being caught in it. What was funny was on CNBC money station host Kudlow exclaims that Obama is nothing more than Black Power Lite. Yikes. Will he say that again?
From my view, all this stuff converging while Obama sits around in mild and calm conversations very separate from the wild ranting that Obama has the potential to do. For me Obama has that Appearance and smile like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, sitting or standing with the argument that there was no Jewish holocaust, similarly making that statement with a sublime smile he has nothing to with Reverend Wright after twenty years of close friendly relations. One remembers Obama saying he could not separate himself from this man Reverend Wright as his own Grand mother. I wonder if his Grand mother will get tossed under the bus.
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» RE: Mainstream Media is Key Player in Misinformation
Posted by: CJC
» RE: Mainstream Media is Key Player in Misinformation
Posted by: maggzilla
» RE: Mainstream Media is Key Player in Misinformation
Posted by: radiomorning
» Uh... Faux News is "mainstream media"?
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Mainstream Media is Key Player in Misinformation
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on May 2, 2008 8:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meanwhile, Obama THINKS when he talks, which is why his debate performances haven't been the best. But given the choice between a president who speaks his own thoughts instead of parroting handlers, I will take the former any day.
Plus Obama isn't a liar like Mrs. Sniper Fire. He also INSPIRES people, including Republicans, which the pandering Karaoke Candidate never does.
Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam veteran, lifelong registered Republican and ARDENT Obama supporter.
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» RE: The Karaoke Candidate
Posted by: outsideagitator
» You got that right, outsideagitator!
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: The Karaoke Candidate
Posted by: sp00n67
» Thanks, sp00n67.
Posted by: HughScott
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nobuko on May 2, 2008 8:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bill has LIED, CHEATED, SHAMED, BETRAYED the American Workers with the NAFTA Bill, then sealed the Media Coffin, by giving the Republicans the final control over the Fair Doctrine Act, to CONTROL the so-called Media, we now have today. She even Lobbied for Bill to get that NAFTA Bill Passed. Now who has screwed ... America, and the American People!
If anyone should be DENOUNCED, it should be Bill Clinton; she married him, she sleeps with him, all while he shares his body with others; He has SHAMED and Embarrassed, not only his Family, but the United States of America! How that man could be that Stupid and Weak, just boggles my mind, when he KNEW the Repukes was gunning for him, and had him already labelled as a WOMANIZER!
Obama doesn't sleep with Rev Wright, he only attends the church he use to Minister over; he had a congregation of 8,000, so there must be something REAL about this man! Hillary had her staff go over ALL his Sermons, and FINALLY found one that she could use against Obama; as if it's Obama giving the Sermon and pulled the Sound Bites she uses at every opportunity she can, to portray this man as traitor to America, when he Served in the Military. Any American knows, a Person of Color Life and Experience in America, is COMPLETELY different than that of a so-called White Person; 90% of us are so mixed with black and white blood that the only ones that can pass for white are the ones that "appear" white! I would bet my last dollar, that if we ALL had a DNA done, NONE of us would come up as Solidly Black or White!
I know Obama wants to stay on the High Ground, but I am sorry, it's time for him to SHUT HILLARY THE FREAK UP! For I would take out an Ad, asking Hillary, "When are you going to DENOUNCE Bill?" After all, he is not my husband who cheated on me, and LIED to America; Rev Wright didn't save the Blue Dress, Bill's young lover did. Rev Wright has not shamed me, you're trying to shame me, by taking his Sermon out of Context!
Obama did not have to go through your PRIVATE Business to EXPOSE Bill's AFFAIRS, the WHOLE DARN WORLD knows it, but I have not used that against you; but YOU choose to have your staff go through Rev Wrights Sermon to find SOUND BITES to discredit Obama, like the Rev is his Lover, Wife or Partner, or even Speaks for Obama!
How Stuck on Stupid will Americans Remain, they should have had ENOUGH of this BS! But I have to admit, its only the Racist's that will use this against Obama, because they wouldn't vote for him in the first place! If White America, allows another BUSH LIKE-Hillary, to Lie to us, to slime their way into office, well then, We DESERVE EVERYTHING WE GET; like the crap we're swimming in NOW, with MORE awaiting us.
America, We really haven't seen anything yet! You think Crime is BAD NOW, soon, we will be afraid to leave our homes for FEAR of Out-of-Work Americans, doing all the wrong things to SURVIVE!
Quite honestly, we need to DUMP this Government, and MOST of those GOOD OLE BOYS/GIRLS, and START ALL OVER AGAIN!
Barak, PLEASE give Hillary some of her own Medicine and SHUT HER THE FREAK UP!
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Posted by: arclight7 on May 2, 2008 8:20 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Spoken like a true bigot.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Spoken like a true bigot.
Posted by: outsideagitator
» On spot again, outsideagitator!
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Spoken like a true bigot.
Posted by: maggzilla
» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: Christie
» RE: NO ONE played the race card more that Obama
Posted by: radiomorning
» Then you should be able to list several examples
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: NO ONE played the race card more that Obama
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Nightstallion on May 2, 2008 8:35 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: MsFeasance on May 2, 2008 9:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From a Booknotes Interview:
"LAMB: [Yale Law Prof Stephen Carter] says in the introduction that "Carol Moseley Braun, the only African-American on the Judiciary Committee, refused to meet with Guinier or to make a public comment." Is that true?
GUINIER: Well, she did not meet with me. That's true. In fact, after my nomination was withdrawn, she made a public comment that seemed to be sympathetic or supportive of the administration's decision."
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» Lani Guinier would make a great Supreme Court justice
Posted by: Rune
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sick&tired on May 2, 2008 9:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think bringing up racial issues is racist in itself. These things need to be discussed. I think the attacks on Hillary are blatantly sexist and I haven't seen ANY blatant racist attacks on Obama. period. None.
He has had the advantage in the media from day one. People rarely say a bad word about him. Only hype. I think she has not been given fair and equal treatment in this campaign from the start. He has been given nothing short of a movie star idolization. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy but I don't like the unfair coverage on the campaign.
Poor Hillary gets blasted no matter what she does. The photos of her are always contorted facial expressions that they post. Never the many great shots of her. Always trying to show her as witchy, evil or "divisive". You have to give the woman credit for not complaining about her mistreatment more. She is trying to rise above it without drawing attention to it but I feel it's been HUGELY tolerated and that it's time people did say - ENOUGH ALREADY. We will not tolerate sexism any more that we tolerate racism!!
Let's make the presidential race fair and unbiased for EVERYONE.
Let's also address election reform too and avoid all this craziness by having all states vote on the same day. No more of this drawn out media frenzy where it brainwashes the voters to vote for who they want us to pick.
I could go on & on about election reform but I'll stop here. There's my 2 cents.
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» RE: I'm still waiting to know what she's done that's racist....
Posted by: sick&tired
» This is such a racist comment
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: I'm still waiting to know what she's done that's racist....
Posted by: kimbari
» You're wrong, kimbari, and here's why....
Posted by: papibear
» RE: I'm still waiting to know what she's done that's racist....
Posted by: desidid
» RE: I'm still waiting to know what she's done that's racist....
Posted by: DRANNAN
» RE: So Basically You Won't Vote For Him Because He's
Posted by: desidid
» RE: So Basically You Won't Vote For Him Because He's
Posted by: DRANNAN
» RE: So Basically You Won't Vote For Him Because He's
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: g50 on May 2, 2008 9:36 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: willymack on May 2, 2008 10:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on May 2, 2008 10:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: lorenbliss on May 2, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A look at affirmative action is especially instructive. Enacted in 1964 specifically to provide African American males with guaranteed access to the workforce -- remember that males were then the primary breadwinners in all races -- affirmative action was nevertheless quickly monopolized by white women.
Here are the damning statistics, taken from Statistical Abstract of the United States* and presented here in narrative form:
In 1960, 80.1 percent of the adult black-male population (for this purpose defined as age 16 and above), was part of the workforce -- that is, the people with jobs (including military service) or available for work. By 2005, only 67.3 percent of the nation’s adult black males were part of the workforce. This is a 45-year decline of 12.8 percent.
In 1960, 36.0 percent of the nation’s adult white female population was part of the workforce. By 2005, the participation of this demographic group in the workforce had grown to 58.9 percent. In other words, 58.9 percent of all adult white females (again for these purposes age 16 and above) were either working or seeking work -- a 45-year increase of 22.9 percent.
African-American females have also benefited from affirmative action, but not to the dramatic extent white females have. In 1960, 47.2 percent of the adult black female population were part of the workforce. By 2005, 61.6 percent were part of the workforce -- an increase of 14.4 percent.
The employment of white males meanwhile is also shrinking: 82.6 percent of the adult white male population in 1960, 74.1 percent of this demographic group in 2005, a reduction of 8.5 percent.
To summarize: from 1960 through 2005, participation of adult black males in the U.S. workforce was reduced by 12.8 percent, while participation of white males was reduced by 8.2 percent. Meanwhile during the same period white female participation was increased 22.9 percent while black female participation was raised by 14.4 percent.
Moreover, a 22.9 percent addition of white females to the workforce represents a disproportionately much larger number of jobs than the addition of 14.4 percent more black females. In 1960 there were 20.1 million white females in the workforce; by 2005, 58.9 million. By comparison, in 1960 there were 3.1 million black females in the workforce; in 2005 there were 9 million.
While these trends have been evident since the Carter years, the Clinton Administration -- clearly fearing their racial implications -- altered the presentation of data in an attempt to suppress the extent to which white women were benefiting from affirmative action. From 1997 through 2000, the public was allowed to see merely that the overall percentage of male participation in the workforce was declining as the female percentage increased -- not how this was affecting the individual races.
Thus Ms. Clinton’s association with deliberately racist practices -- a suggestive connection from which the Obama campaign could reap a whirlwind of advantageous innuendo -- extends back at least 11 years. Thus too I am not the least surprised she is pandering to racism -- precisely what one would expect of a former “Goldwater Girl.”
_________
*Sources: Statistical Abstract of the United States; section, “Labor Force, Employment and Earnings”; table: “Labor Force and Participation Rates by Race, Sex and Age” (all editions from 1960 through 2007, spot checks of 1967, 1977, 1987, 2007 editions).
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» RE: Racist Feminism
Posted by: sick&tired
» More racism from a supposed "feminist"
Posted by: Kym525
» God, I love you. You just put a cap on this entire thread for me. /nm
Posted by: kimbari
» RE: God, I love you. You just put a cap on this entire thread for me. /nm
Posted by: outsideagitator
» AMEN, Kym525! AMEN!
Posted by: papibear
» RE: acist Feminism
Posted by: desidid
» RE: acist Feminism
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
» Quakers couldn't have done it alone
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on May 2, 2008 10:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She shouldn't have to subject herself to this kind of pandering to an anxious public. If she claims to have been a victim of Republican-backed smear politics aided by the likes of talk radio and FOX News-she's as guilty as the other camp.
Now, in order to secure the Democratic party's nomination, she looks more like the type of candidate we didn't WANT her to be: one who employs a "Swift boat"-style to discredit a person.
A candidate would sell him/herself out just to be elected. In today's American political arena, there is no Angela Merkel-type person in this country.
It would be wise if Hillary listened to that old Alice Cooper song "Elected" and try to be the candidate who ran for the presidency in 2004.
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Posted by: Crazy H on May 2, 2008 11:07 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Okay, Obama lost a few percentage points in the polls...today. Given the attention span of the average American, we'll have all forgotten about it by November.
Obama is the next president if we all can keep our eyes on the ball.
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on May 2, 2008 11:16 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Think that this is a conspiracy? Not at all. CIA and FBI types posing as radical feminists regularly entered antiwar protests to angrily denounce the "male chauvinist pigs" who controlled the organizations. Any efforts at silencing them would be denounced as "sexism in action."
That was Operation CHAOS, run by the CIA from ~1963 to 1969. It grew out of earlier efforts in the 1950s, when youth groups in Europe were heavily infiltrated by both Soviet and Western intelligence services as part of the Cold War "struggle for hearts and minds". Those tactics were then applied in the United States during the sixties, and their use grew explosively as anti-war groups began to form all across the country.
Most of what the CIA did was focused on behavior modification and fell under the general theme of anti-Soviet, anti-communist behavior. This is all very well documented, and was done under "Project MKULTRA" and similar guises. The rationale was that the public might fall under the sway of Soviet psychological propaganda, so a "counterpropaganda" system was needed.
In other words, in the 1960s a domestic "counterinsurgency" operation was launched that relied heavily on CIA and academic psychologists for advice. The essential goal was to control public opinion and perception in the name of fighting communism.
The FBI's role centered around a somewhat different issue: race and the demand for civil rights by a wide variety of people - blacks, latinos, asians, women, 18 to 21 year olds who couldn't vote. The FBI is a very curious body - they aren't really police, nor are they military. They are perhaps best classified as the political police, even thought they have worked hard to portray themselves strictly as finders of serial killers.
What the FBI wanted to do, under Hoover, was to disrupt any groups that could possibly form larger organizations. They didn't want any more Martin Luther Kings leading million man marches to Washington - they wanted to destroy such organized movements, which they claimed would lead to communist totalitarian governments. They thus targeted Black Panthers, and attempted to drive wedges between east and west coast groups. This was mostly exposed as "Operation COINTELPRO" - but that was just one small end of a much larger general program, which might be summed up as "Selling America the Fair, America the Beautiful".
So, why are we focusing on race and gender in this race and not on the issues that Martin Luther King tackled - the gross economic disparity, not just within the United States, but between the United States and what can only be described as our foreign colonies?
Try this: enter the following in a Google Search Box:
"Gloria Steinem" CIA New York Times 1967
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» Armageddon tiebreaker. Of the 3 front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama.
Posted by: HughScott
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dgleason on May 2, 2008 11:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think Hillary Clinton is smart and policy competent. I was uncomfortable with how Nafta played out, I thought Bill Clinton in the Whitehouse under any capacity was not a distraction we needed, and I believed that it was unlikely that she would dismantle the unitary executive movement preferring to use it.
I recognized the mysogeny, but it seemed that there was something divisive about her nature that went beyond resistance to women. I don't doubt that a man would not have this burden, and that it is not fair.
Then the race bating started filtering from the Clinton campaign and I was disgusted. I will remain disgusted with her until she comes clean.
Our country can not afford this kind of politician any more, whichever side of the political spectrum they are on.
Quite frankly I think a race bater is more dispicable than a racist. There is a certain unconsciousness about some forms of racism.
I would add that I have not seen Obama resort to this type of tactic once. I am tired of the media equating the two candiates behavior, objectively it is not even close to the same. But we don't get much objectivity these days, perhaps we are going to have to learn to function without it.
Obama's test will be to hold his own and find a voice of strength to confront what is being thrown at him without giving up his principals. He will need that strength and he will need the absense of malice that has imbued his political career and is the primary source of the wellspring of 'hope' people talk about.
While it is easy to nominalize 'hope' as a fairy tale there is something very concrete about the hope that Obama call's for, many of us who support him do so because they want to be a part of making America less divided not more so and the difference in his rhetoric is that he seems to actually do that, call to the center, to what is possible. Hillary Clinton very clearly does not, everywhere she goes she increases hostility and division.
It will be telling if America allows this possibility to be cheaply tarnished and those who do so, like Hillary, damage America as much as they do their own party.
It is this willingness to damage America in pursuit of personal objectives that I believe disqualifies her for the presidency, her sex does not trump that.
In the long run we are more accountable for our own then we are for the other guy. If we tollerate race bating in her and still vote for her we are guilty of it as well.
Sincerely,
Danielle
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» Excellent comment, dgleason.
Posted by: HughScott
» Exactly right! Great comment.
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Clinton's race bating damages America and disqualifies her
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Clinton's race bating damages America and disqualifies her
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: Clinton's race bating damages America and disqualifies her
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Clinton's race bating damages America and disqualifies her
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: Clinton's race bating damages America and disqualifies her
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on May 2, 2008 11:43 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Put in that intolerable situation at Gitmo, Osama Been Forgotten would give up his entire worldwide terrorist network!
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Posted by: CJC on May 2, 2008 11:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
______________________
Drake Bennett writes how different expressions of bias may be working to affect voters'
impressions of the Democratic contenders for the presidential nomination ("Choose
One, Black Man White Woman," Ideas, p 1 Feb 17)
Race is a social definition with greater or lesser salience in different places
and different times. In Britain, just for one example, "Asian" refers
to people from Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh, a category hardly relevant in the
U.S. The silly discussion about whether Barack Obama is "black" enough
has nothing to do with his skin color and everything to do with the fact that his
"black" parent was a citizen of Kenya and not a descendant of slaves in
the U.S. like most American blacks.
Gender is completely different. With rare exceptions we're all either male or
female and we have a parent of the opposite sex from us. Unless we live in a single-sex
religious community we have experience of each other every day. Gender is fundamental
to our biology and our social life.
It's odd that Bennett wrote about stereotypes "we" have of women.
How one-sided is that? All of us have stereotypes of both sexes. What's politically
relevant is how those stereotypes affect our ideas of who is suitable to hold public
office and whether we believe a woman can be a successful president.
Bennett made no reference to women leaders who currently or recently held office
around the world - Angela Merkel of Germany; Margaret Thatcher, United Kingdom;
Benazir Bhutto, Pakistan; Indira Ghandi, India; etc. In some cases family and elite
status trump gender and in others maybe it's the particular political environment.
The U.S. is not the center of the universe. (And we do have women governors.)
What's relevant for the Democrats is their collective judgment about which candidate
has the experience, the character, the ideas, the history that will appeal to the
greatest number of voters in November. Hillary Clinton is not just a 60 year old
Senator from New York. She is also a lawyer who worked for the Children's Defense
Fund, defended WalMart and is the spouse of a former governor and president. Barack
Obama is not just a 46 year old Senator from Illinois. He was a state representative
and community organizer. He has, for better or worse, a shorter political history
and probably fewer long-term supporters and entanglements. Well, one of them is
female, the other is black. So what? One will be nominated to run for President
in August.
John McCain is a white male who will have to defend George W. Bush's record.
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» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: acism vs sexism
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Betsy L. Angert on May 2, 2008 12:03 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thank you for this interesting tome. It was and is a wondrous read. I greatly appreciate the research and the considerations.
I was among those who once thought I admired Hillary Clinton. That time has come and gone. I supported her first Senatorial run. My entire family and I were frequent contributors. For me, once the former First Lady took office I saw what is now more pronounced. The description you pen was obvious to me early in her first term.
Clinton's decision to play the hawk may have had other motivations. Perhaps she really believed that voting to authorize the war in Iraq was the right thing to do (which is, arguably, even more worrying). But her posture in this campaign -- threatening to "totally obliterate" Iran after being asked how she would respond in the highly improbable event of an Iranian nuclear strike against Israel, for example -- has at least something to do with a desire to compete on a macho foreign policy playing field. It's the woman in this Democratic primary race who has the cowboy swagger: the nationalist and militaristic rhetoric, the whiskey-swilling photo-ops, the gotcha attacks for perceived insults to a working-class electorate (as in "Bittergate") that is usually depicted as white and male.
Relatives of mine, women and men, since this recent campaign have decided they cannot support her. As much as we may have thought a woman in the White House would be ideal, we agree, not that woman.
Someone I have been extremely close to for most of life was fine with Hillary or Barack throughout the campaign, that is, until a few weeks ago.
I inscribed the story of Jennifer Wills and her conversion. This fifty-five year old white woman, a self-proclaimed feminist, average American voter, and a person of devout faith can no longer stand by and watch Hillary Clinton cast stone after stone. As an educator in a religious school, Jennifer does not wish her students to emulate a cruel Commander-In-Chief.
I invite your review and reflections. Please share any thoughts you might have . . .
Reverend Wright, Senators Obama and Clinton, Moral Issues; Reality of Relationships
Betsy L. Angert
BeThink.org
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» Thank you for this comment, Betsy
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Senators Obama and Clinton, Moral Issues
Posted by: dgleason
Comments are closed-
Posted by: observing on May 2, 2008 12:12 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When it comes to the issues, Nader still has his head screwed on, but, of course, he's unelectable. Sigh!
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» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: None of the three remaining candidates
Posted by: CJC
» Good start, now poke your head all the way out of the box
Posted by: Rune
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nomomorons on May 2, 2008 12:39 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just got the information that it was Bill Clinton who booked Rev.
Wright to go on the National Press Club where he went off on Obama,
etc. Joe Scarborough on MSNBC said that another reporter, Mica
Brazinski suggested that Clinton's were the ones to set up this fall
before the May 6th primary and Joe denied and called it conspiracy.
And now he said in fact it was true!
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Posted by: Wilhelmina on May 2, 2008 12:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before the SC election all of the television commentators were saying that Hillary would have a difficult time winning in SC because the Democratic party in SC was about 52% black. Also, it was a historical fact that Jesse Jackson won the democratic nomination in SC in '84 and '88.
Why was it racist, then, for Bill Clinton to mention these same facts?
Obama sent out a memo to be used to be used to frame the Clintons as playing the race card. It was published on the Huffington Post on Jan. 12, 2008, 4:02 p.m. Some people believe that Obama thought his only chance to stay in the race after NH was to play the race card and blame the Clintons.
I think that is the most egregious kind of attack because I hate bigotry so much. I have been concerned about various kinds of bigotry since I was seven years old. I can't imagine how it would feel to have the entire country think I was a bigot.
People used the original memo Obama Campaign memo for their talking points to frame the Clintons as racist. A quote from the article:
"The Obama campaign recently prepared a detailed memo, obtained by the Huffington Post and made public elsewhere, listing various instances in which it perceived the Clinton's campaign to have deliberately played the race card in the Democratic primary."
Another item on the Obama memo was that Hillary was racist for saying that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 could not have been passed at the time without the help of Lyndon Johnson. It is another historical fact that Johnson used his knowledge of the Congress to get the Act passed. He also called in all of the favors owed to him. So why was it racist for Hillary to say that?
Playing the race card and blaming it on the Clintons may have helped Obama win some of the primaries and the black vote but in the long run it has made it impossible for Obama to win in Nov. He has brought out long latent racial feelings to the surface and set race relations back by 30 years.
White voters are angry that the Clintons, who worked for racial equality their entire lives have now been swift-boated so that "the first Black President" is no a "racial bigot."
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» Racism aside, Hillary has openly expressed contempt for Obama, which he NEVER did to her.
Posted by: HughScott
» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Obama sent out the race memo that started the race card.
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: The Cynical Skeptic on May 2, 2008 12:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I fear that Hillary's, slash and burn regardless of cost, approach may be a set back in the future for the millions of intelligent, articulate, politically astute women and their righteous quest for full participation in the election process up to and including the U.S. presidency.
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» RE: Contempt for O'Hillary is not misogyny.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Mystery Solver on May 2, 2008 2:35 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The Manchurian Candidate
Posted by: CJC
» f the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Opus007 on May 2, 2008 2:40 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Command8 on May 2, 2008 2:53 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a tricky situation the Clinton Campaign are playing haut politics, killing two birds with one stone--scaring White folk and angering Black folk to the point that some are saying they will vote for McCain or not at all. This is exactly what they want just before the N. Carolina primary. Remember it was the Clintons that started this Rev. Wright thing in the first place. Barack has to reach back out to Black folks right now. He needs to reach out to the Black Nationalist folk who have never thought Barack to be Black enough for them in the first place; the kind of folk that overcame their misgivings about Obama because of their desire to see "it happen" in their lifetime.
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Posted by: Jeanne on May 2, 2008 3:02 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It's not gender
Posted by: dgleason
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BayAreaVoter on May 2, 2008 4:06 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And while you always bash any kind of female identity politics (maybe women WANT to vote for her) I NEVER hear any comments about identity politics concerning the 90% of the African American vote going to Obama. Oh, that's okay.
And what are women waiting for? Do they really think they need to wait for a woman who is not flawed? Kerry and Gore were flawed and women voted for them. Certainly Obama has lots going against him but that doesn't seem to matter to these liberal women who feel so good about themselves that they can vote for an African American man. Racial redemption!
Get over yourselves. Hillary may not be perfect but she is brilliant and has great ideas. Chelsea is right, she'll make a better president than Bill. And as we all know, Bill was flawed. But these so-called progressives, blinded by their self-righteousness, love to dump all over the only Democratic president elected to 2 terms since FDR. Obama will never beat McCranky in the General Election and you can sit around and cry with your Messiah (we are the ones we've been waiting for?)
Oh, and thanks for mentioning the 4-page memorandum Obama's staff released following his LOSS in New Hampshire HOW TO ACCUSE THE CLINTONS OF RACISM. They knew they had to peel the AA vote away from Hillary and they succeeded. Since then every time he loses to her in primary after primary they pull the same stunt all over again with the racism charge.
Wise up, oh lefty media--you're being played!!
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» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» Enough said.
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Hillary is NO RACIST
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
» RE: Hillary is NO RACIST
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Kym525 on May 2, 2008 5:22 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right-wing mouthpieces are doing exactly what they do best and the American people--many of them sheep--have bought into it. The bottom line is this ladies and gentlemen: We have a historic candidacy featuring two historic disenfranchised groups, black men and white women. These two candidates do not differ greatly in their views--maybe except for health care, but even then both agree the system we have in place now is failing.
We as the constituency have the groundbreaking opportunity to turn things around by concentrating not on hand-selected soundbites, but on SUBSTANCE and what have most of you done? You "either/or" feminists threw the first punch with the "vote for Hilary or you're supporting the patriarchy" bullshit, which completely dismisses the feelings and the history of women of colour. There's one so-called "feminist" in here who prefers to blame the victim for their disenfranchisement and makes the spurious claim that it is the fault of black women for not taking advantage of the opportunities given to them--even though more black women are in college these day and in professional positions. The Archie Bunker contingent will vote race rather than issues because they'd rather go to hell than admit a black or a female candidate has more in common with them than the Republican dude who wants to continue sending our best and brightest into the quagmire that is Iraq and who thinks our economy is just dandy. We've allowed the right to use their own misogyny and racism against us.
Liberals have completely lost sight of what matters most and because of that blindness, we may end up losing big time in November. Ask yourself this question--what does Hilary's power pantsuit or Obama's minister have to do with the foreclosure crisis or the fact that gas is over four freaking bucks a gallon. If you answer rightfully--which in NOTHING--then get real!
Now, if those things like the pantsuit and the minister bother you, then consider this: McCain will also have the power to add at least THREE more judges on the Supreme Court. Guess what folks--bend over and kiss your civil liberties and Roe v. Wade goodbye.
Something to consider. Peace.
Obama '08
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» RE: How the HELL did we get to this point???
Posted by: Agi
Comments are closed-
Posted by: old prof on May 2, 2008 5:24 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in which Atticus Finch declares that Tom Robinson's only crime was that, as a black man, he dared to feel sorry for a white woman. Clinton is essentially sending a coded message that Obama is elitist (translated as "uppity black man") for daring to feel sorry for white working class people. It's a shame that Clinton feels it necessary to resort to Jim Crow tactics in order to win an election.
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Posted by: SusanMcGee on May 2, 2008 6:48 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But what I don't understand is progressive left wingers, including feminists, who expect Sen. Clinton to be anti-racist, but don't expect ANYTHING from Senator Obama about denouncing sexism.
Both candidates should be decrying ALL oppressions.
But I don't think I've ever heard that from an Obama supporter. Why have none of the Obama supporters, particularly feminists, challenged him to speak out against sexism? Why is Sen. Clinton held accountable but Sen. Obama is not?
I wonder if it's deep seated internalized sexism that says that men must always be more important than women, and if a man does something as well as a woman (like housework) he must be praised to the skies as an exceptional individual.
Susan McGee (who will be supporting the Democrat who is nominated)
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» Has Hillary spoken out against racism?
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: when will Obama speak out about sexism?
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
» Good point
Posted by: westomoon
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SusanMcGee on May 2, 2008 7:02 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, this is alternet..yet there are multiple posts denying the reality of sexism.
Disgusting.
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» What's disgusting is the contempt Hillary has shown for Obama since her campaign started.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: not really fair
Posted by: Jeanne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cdcmtotr on May 2, 2008 7:52 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She has held up to my expectations of her. Fight to win and drag down the Democratic Party if she couldn't win fair and square.
I marched during the civil rights movement when she was helping Goldwater and Nixon. I am digusted by her and her husbands dirty politics.
I want a women to be President, but I am waiting for the right one and Hillary is not it.
I hope the superdelegates don't push her in so I can hold my nose, vote for her instead of McStain, and then leave the Democratic Party.
When will the Hillary supports, blue collar workers.etc wake up and see that she is and was a NAFTA supporter from way back when, Miltary Complex backer, and a phoney???
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Posted by: intheknow on May 2, 2008 9:01 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: intheknow
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz on May 2, 2008 9:12 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Washington, D.C., Group Accused of High-Tech Dirty Tricks to Suppress Black Vote
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Posted by: metoo on May 3, 2008 12:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you suspect that Obama cannot win in November against McCain the task is to stop him from being nominated, and that is what Hillary needs to do. To Bad if the New Obama followers don't have the stomach for the process of an election, it's about winning not about pacifying dreamers.
The choice comes down to who wins, not who played this card or that card. Obama was the first to attack Clinton by claiming that she was the same kind of person that has been running the country in the pass 7 years. One would hear the "Same old Politics" every time Obama opened his mouth. Obama's way of categorizing Clinton as a poor candidate, a bad choice, an extension of the republicans. But when she retaliated the Obama supporters acted as if Clinton was the aggressor. Well, to me, that sort of logic is baloney.
Obama cannot win in Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, the Swing states or any of the RED States so how do the Obama supporters plan on winning the general election?
Elections are a theatrical presentation to reach a mathematical conclusion and if you Do the Math, you will discover that Obama will not be President.
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» Well duh!
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
» RE: Leadership by Vindication
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Leadership by Vindication
Posted by: metoo
» Oh, no you didn't!
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Her Duty Is To Be True To Herself
Posted by: desidid
» RE: wow.
Posted by: CJC
Comments are closed-
Posted by: OK Granny on May 3, 2008 12:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Mary Holmes
Posted by: CJC
Comments are closed-
Posted by: desidid on May 3, 2008 6:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: niliadis on May 3, 2008 6:38 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
writing a little negative article is really not very much accomplishments..
I disagree with what is written in this article and feel it is only written because somehow the author does not give much about the reality that Hillary does not need to play the race card..She is qualified, strong, has perserance, passion and conviction and is very much accomplished...jealosy make wanabe writers say or implicate negatives...or could it be Betsy here is a supporter of Obama who has supported a Radical racist, American hater who screems out God "D" America and by the way
Betsy you and I amre America!
Then you'll Betsy will write how Obama denounced his radical racist American hater..
I say a great action which only proved that it was only done as a self serving political strategy..He will do anything or say anything at this point... I will also say that he supported this varmit radical racist Anti-American for twenty years...so his denouncement comes TWENTY YEARS TO LATE...
Betsy its ok to be a little jealous and use your little power to promote and use your card.
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» The executive editor of The Nation is a "jealous wannabe"? Oh, what is IN that koolaid?
Posted by: westomoon
Comments are closed-
Posted by: niliadis on May 3, 2008 7:07 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RADICAL RACIST=WRIGHT
AMERICAN HATER=WRIGHT
God "D"America"=WRIGHT
MILLION MAN MARCH=FARRAKHAN
RADICAL RACIST=FARRAKHAN
AMERICAN HATER=FARRAKHAN
BOMBING AMERICA=AYERS
HAMMAS=AMERICAN HATER
OBAMA=SUPPORTER OF WRIGHT FOR TWENTY YEARS
FARRAKHAN AND WRIGHT VISIT OUR ENEMIES WHO WOULD LIKE TO HURT AMERICA
OBAMA SUPPORTER OF FARRAKHAN
HAMAS=OBAMA SUPPORTER
OBAMA DENOUNCING WRIGHT=SELF SERVING REASONS
FOR POLITICAL REASONS
TWENTY YEARS SUPPORTING A RADICAL RACIST AN AMERICAN HATER (by the way American like you, everyone and I)WHO FEELS WE DESRVED THE TRAGEDY OF 9/11, WHO SAYS GOD 'D' AMERICA
AND SO MUCH MORE VARMIT COMMENTS.
SO NOW WHY WHOULD WE SUPPORT CLINTON> SEE ABOVE
NO BRAINER....
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» Gee, I wasn't aware
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: Gee, I wasn't aware
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: WHY SHOULD WE VOTE FOR-OTHER THAN OBAMA
Posted by: CJC
» RE: WHY SHOULD WE VOTE FOR-OTHER THAN OBAMA
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DRANNAN on May 3, 2008 10:14 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bill and Hillary Clinton don't have a racist bone in their bodies. Those OVERBLOWN comments by Bill in South Carolina were NOT racist. The "Jesse Jackson" comment was in reply to an impudent question by a "reporter," with this ditty, "What does it say about Senator Obama that it takes TWO of you to beat him." Bill laughed heartedly, and replied to the reporter, "That's bait, too." (Bill had just answered another baiting question from another impudent reporter.) Bill then said, "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in 1984 and 1988. He ran a good campaign. Senator Obama has run a good campaign and he has a good organization." You can see the exact exchange by going to youtube.com and searching for "Clinton Jesse Jackson South Carolina."
I VOTED FOR JESSE JACKSON IN OHIO IN the 1988 PRIMARY, AND WENT TO SEE HIM SPEAK just in case you think I am a racist.
I am a realist, not a racist. Obama is "likable enough" (his words to Hillary), but he can NOT win the General Election because he can not get enough votes in the "swing states" to reach 270 Electoral Votes.
Some of the "reasons" some people vote for a candidate IS because of their race, their religion, their 'looks', their likeability, their sex, their birthplace, and a hundred other reasons why some people like some people and detest others. Rarely, do people vote with their head...and that is why we have "elected" some awful presidents and we have rejected some who would have been wonderful presidents...Humphrey, Mondale, Gore, Kerry.
It is about the Electoral College...stupid. Senator Obama can not reach "270" Electoral Votes. Just do the math. The late April polls show how the General Election would come out with Clinton against McCain and Obama against McCain. Clinton has a big lead against McCain in Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Arkansas. The polls show that McCain would beat Obama in Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Florida, and Arkansas. Obama can't win Florida because he refuses to count the primary votes in Florida. Disenfranchised voters can be ornery.
The election will come down to who can win 4 or 5 swing wstates. Look up pollster.com and see the late April polling results.
Senator Clinton CAN REACH that magic 270 number by winning Ohio, Florida, Arkansas, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. The Democratic candidate who wins these states will be the next President. The Democratic candidate who loses those states can join the long list of has-beens...Humphrey, McGovern, Dukakis, Mondale, Gore, and Kerry. Every one of those nominees LOST Ohio and the Presidency. McGovern lost 49 out of 50 states to Nixon! Imagine that when you decide which Democratic candidate has the only chance to beat McCain. Based upon polling DATA, the only Democrat who can beat McCain is Hillary Clinton.
Go to: http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi and this site will calculate the Electoral Votes based upon your input of how you think those states will vote. You might start by putting in General Election polling data and past General Election results. The candidate that gets at least 270 Electoral Votes will be our next president.
Senator Obama is 8 years too soon to win. The country has come a long way toward race reconciliation. When President Johnson signed Civil Rights Legislation in the 1960's, he commented to a confidant, "I've done the right thing, but I've lost the South for Generations." He was right. We have now passed one generation, and we will be close to two generations in 2016, after the second Clinton administration, and then, Senator Obama will be ready, and the country will be ready for President Obama. I'll vote for him in 2016 when I'm confident he is ready, and he can WIN.
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» RE: Betsy, your LONG diatribe has no basis in FACT
Posted by: dgleason
» no basis in FACT
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: no basis in FACT
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: no basis in FACT
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Betsy, your LONG diatribe has no basis in FACT
Posted by: DRANNAN
Comments are closed-
Posted by: YogiBear on May 3, 2008 6:19 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sounds like someone's trying to make the bigoted attacks on both candidates seem equal, when they're not. Hillary's taken a beating, often on these threads, you rate a 1 whenever you point it out. Obama's the darling of the left, and so folks are willing to fall over themselves to try to find a way to spin him better.
Report the facts and let us decide. I heard Hillary speak today in North Carolina and she made the highly questionable claim that Obama's the one who belongs to big money and corporate America. I mean, they both do, to a point, but Hillary's far worse. It's always swaying to hear a stump speech up close, but with the facts in hand, voting becomes far easier. We don't need spin -- from Fox News or the Nation -- to decide who to pull the lever for.
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Posted by: femmyv on May 4, 2008 7:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Others have already noted the Obama campaign's masterful use (or abuse, if you prefer) of liberal white guilt.
I'm at the point where I don't even care anymore; in 44 years, the Obama campaign is, by far, the most cynical beast I've ever seen in an election season. James Carville's group "A" Democrats are swooning over him, not caring and some apparently thrilled that when Obama denounced Wright last week, he also denounced the views of about 1/3 of Democratic voters.
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Posted by: OK Granny on May 4, 2008 10:31 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: liam99 on May 4, 2008 10:00 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: liam99 on May 4, 2008 10:17 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Woodpecker on May 6, 2008 3:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Terry
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» RE: The Trouble With Hillary is NOT that she's a woman-it's that she's a former First Lady!!!
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bessie on May 10, 2008 12:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: OK Granny on May 11, 2008 7:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: venkat on May 2, 2008 12:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LobbyDelegates.com Lets Ordinary Voices Be Heard
The unconstrained votes of some 800 top Democratic Party officials, known as Super Delegates, now matter even more following the Pennsylvania Primary, which continued to leave both Presidential candidates short of the 2,024 primary-pledged delegates needed to secure the nomination.
Those believing these Party insiders (who include governors, mayors, state and Congressional lawmakers) should be more accountable to rank-and-file Democrats, can now have their voices heard through www.LobbyDelegates.com. This one-stop portal is the first and only one empowering grassroots Democrats to directly communicate with their state’s Super Delegates – via email, fax or postal letters.
LobbyDelegates.com maintains lists of Super Delegates who have endorsed Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama or are still uncommitted. Users can, with one click, target all uncommitted Super Delegates and urge them to publicly endorse a certain candidate, or remain uncommitted. Users can similarly lobby Super Delegates to keep an existing commitment, or switch to the other candidate.
Although Sen. Obama leads with 1,490 pledged delegates to 1,336 for Sen. Clinton, neither would attain 2,024 even if one or the other won two-thirds of the remaining primary delegates. While Clinton leads among Super Delegates, 259 to 235, Obama has narrowed this gap steadily over the past six weeks. Over 300 Super Delegates remain uncommitted.
The LobbyDelegates.com website is strictly independent, and is not aligned with any political party, candidate, campaign or advocacy group. LobbyDelegates.com was created as a public service under the auspices of the nonprofit StateDemocracy Foundation, whose similar civic engagement website, www.StateDemocracy.com, is dedicated to delivering democracy to your desktop by connecting citizens and lawmakers.
Thousands have visited LobbyDelegates.com since it was launched on April 3. Since then, the website has been upgraded by adding a blog, the ability to invite friends, and free email delivery.
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» RE:Proof Hillary cannot win the Dem primary
Posted by: Christie
» RE: Proof Hillary cannot win the Dem primary
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: leta on May 2, 2008 1:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Struggles against sexism?
Posted by: mandy
» RE: Struggles against sexism?
Posted by: chuckjs
» RE: Struggles against sexism?
Posted by: eek
» RE: Struggles against sexism?
Posted by: metryjen
» Out with logic, on with lunacy
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Struggles against sexism?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Struggles against sexism?
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Struggles against sexism? OR THE RACE CARD
Posted by: niliadis
» RE: You're Wrong
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoPCZone on May 2, 2008 1:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have no problem with the idea of voting for a woman to be our President but I have a real serious problem with Shillary/Shrillary/Billary. Wouldn't let her pick up my garbage, much less vote for her. My estimation of the average IQ in New York dropped by at least 50% when they gave this carpetbagger from Arkansas, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Transylvania a Senate seat. It dropped again when the re-elected her.
She is a closeted NeoCon corporatist with a "D" behind her name and is willing to burn down the house (the Democratic Party) to get what she wants- POWER. She needs to come out of the closet so that she can be John McSame's running mate.
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» RE: Get Real - AMEN
Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: Get Real - AMEN SECONDED - but not the second paragraph
Posted by: corinne122
» RE: Get Real
Posted by: SusanMcGee
» RE: Get Real
Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Get Real
Posted by: SusanMcGee
» RE: Get Real
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: Get Real--Your Para 2 AND 3 are moronic:
Posted by: jvaljon1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: luciennh on May 2, 2008 3:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let us the voters study the congressional records and past history of each of the candidates running for presidential office.
"Beware of Wolve's in Sheeps clothing". Hillary Clinton will tell you what pleases your ego and put her arms around your children...but see what she tried to do more than a decade ago, but was "stopped". Yes, she WILL garnish our paychecks with her Mandatory Healthcare plan. No Freedom of choice.
Just check the 1996 bill submitted to congress by Hillary Clinton and look who saved all America's butts, which includes all our children. Please begin your learning experience here:
Hillary"s Records
Hillary Congressional Records
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» RE: Hillary Clinton Past Records
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Hillary Clinton Past Records
Posted by: Bibsisis
» Are you NUTS? Or just a NeoMORON?
Posted by: jvaljon1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: www.suekatz.com on May 2, 2008 4:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robin Morgan et al have never spoken for many of us (and I'm 60, involved since the 60s). There's been a perennial division inside the feminist movement between those who claim to sit atop a pyramid of oppressions and those of us who consider these oppressions inter-related. This is a classic division between liberals - too often motivated by class self-interest - and those who know the whole system needs fundamentally re-vamped.
For me feminism is a vision, not a single-issue view. I always disliked Clinton for her war-mongering and knee-jerk hawkish reactions. But the way she has run her campaign, especially around race - and the tone of her feminist supporters - has done more than turn me off. It's been one of the most depressing aspects of an increasingly depressing campaign season.
Thanks again for the intelligence of this piece,
Sue
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» RE: Beware assumptions about older feminists
Posted by: hagwind
» Feminism and the CIA: formation of wedge issues in anti-war activist groups.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Feminism and the CIA: formation of wedge issues in anti-war activist groups.
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Beware assumptions about older feminists
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: Beware assumptions about older feminists
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Beware assumptions about older feminists
Posted by: niliadis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Nightstallion on May 2, 2008 4:22 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one who is a thinking individual can forget the Mena Fiasco. Those who bounce eyebrows and get all defensive simply were not on the political scene at the time or are totally brain-dead. I was up until then a lifetime Democrat. I was cured by all that money laundering they did.
When George Bush took office due to Democratic blundering and ballot thievery at the poles I became a Confederate. The American Constitution first and States Rights second NO MORE FEDERATION! Fuck the Federalists is my motto now! Demonrats and Republicons are both FEDERALISTS, PEOPLE!
That is they BOTH work to keep Governance above the law of the land by making the Group not the Individual responsible for any crime committed under their aegis. Wonderful, all that finger pointing is intended to Confuse John Q. Public into dismissing the whole thing for lack of a perpetrator. Well, FORNICATE ‘EM! The lot of them, TOSS THE WHOLE KIT AND KABOODLE of them into the FEDERAL PEN!
Then go out and recruit street people to come in to fill their positions, I am willing to bank that then you would see democracy in action. Totally nuts for six weeks then down to business of sorts. But I bet my butt that any of the down and outers would NOT let Halliburton or the Religionists into the Whitehouse.
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» RE: ace? Gender? Is this all you see of this murderous swine?
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: Race? Gender?
Posted by: Nightstallion
» RE: ace? Gender?
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on May 2, 2008 4:25 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the Dems are smart (wishful thinking, I know, just bear with me) they'll find a "compromise candidate" that the party can rally behind. I realize that this is a bit of a long shot. The last time anything that something like that happened was the Republican convention of 1920 which gave America the hapless Warren G. Harding of Ohio. The bitter fight which led to his nomination didn't do the GOP much harm in the long run. He and his running mate, Calvin Coolidge of Vermont, easily defeated the Democratic ticket of James Cox of Ohio and (GET THIS!) Franklin Delano Roosevelt of New York!
Let's be perfectly clear about this: Hillary Clinton is never going to be the president of the United States. It is not because she is a woman, it is because the American people are sick of her and her husband.
Wake up and smell the B.S. Democrats!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Post #151: Random Thoughts
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» RE: John McCain: 44th President
Posted by: writer7
» RE: John McCain: 44th President
Posted by: LTBROWN
» RE: LTBROWN
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: LTBROWN
Posted by: thealltheone
» RE: John McCain: 44th President
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: writer7 on May 2, 2008 4:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: never
Posted by: richieb
» RE: How many do you want?
Posted by: larryfhilton
» RE: never
Posted by: RobNLA
» RE: never
Posted by: desidid
» RE: never
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: never
Posted by: kimbari
» Molly Ivins agreed with you
Posted by: fanny666
» RE: never
Posted by: maggzilla
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Purple Girl on May 2, 2008 4:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 'Sexism' you inaacurately portray is Nothing- 'Stick & Stones may break my bones - but words will never hurt me'. Women who have actually faced real SExism know what is being called sexism is nothing more then metaphors and analogies referring to the fact she is female. Woman like me have faced real sexism resulting in discrimation- Not being considered the best candidate for a job when we truely are the Best. Getting paid Less when we meet or exceed the males abilities. We realize and acknowledge when a male is better then us at things andexpect the same be returned. We set the bar and tone and are fighting everyday to that end. We are the Libbers- equality for All. It appears that some females have decided that 'Payback is a Bitch'- literally and figuratively. they will support a female regardless of their qualifications or even against their own interests. Let's be Honest about the last 35 yrs- sticking only to Womens issues- We've only gotten a 2 cent raise ($0.77/41.00) Roe v Wade has lost ground and is now nearly gone. Birth control still not readily available, Abstenence education,Rate of sexually transmitted disease in Teen girls, # of woman killed by husbands & boyfriends (cheaper to kill her seems to be the new adage), Rape of Service Woman......I could Write a doctorial dissertation in what we have lost in 35 yrs!
Then consider Hillary's Action adn InActions while in the Senate, The Armed Servcies Com (con) and esp on the Campaign trail- If she were male she would not be where she is Now, Unless a Republican Propped Up By the Cheney machine - she's their 2nd horse in the Race.
Seh is NOT the Right person For the Job, in fact I think she should not only be kicked out of the Dem party. lose her job in the Senate- but be facing Charges for Dereliciton of Duty- along with therest on the Armed Services, poss Complicity and Treason Too. I am NOt voting for her because she is a Woman- I'm Not Voting For her Because she has proven her Allegience to the 'Shadow Gov't' and she is lying to get a Job. Feminist= revenge at all costs. Libber= Equal Rights For All
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» RE: 'Feminist' vs "Libbers"
Posted by: binkey
» RE: 'Feminist' vs "Libbers"
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Livemike on May 2, 2008 4:42 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: WRT Limbaugh subjecting people to his physique.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: WRT Limbaugh subjecting people to his physique.
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SEDGFLD on May 2, 2008 4:45 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans should be demanding that the media concentrate on the issues instead of them demanding from one candidate what they don't demand from another in trying to protect the very lucrative status achieved by siding with a particular candidate and protecting that candidate by shifting attention elsewhere.
The nonsense going on now is an excuse for those who are looking for excuses for not supporting a canidate they didn't want to endorse from the beginning.
It's time for us to start being honest with ourselves and others as to the state of affairs in this country and then, maybe, the majority of us can stop playing the hateful and divisive game we've played each of the last few elections that have been manipulated by media personalities pretending to be honest journalists.
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» RE: Voter Complicity
Posted by: willymack
» RE: Voter Complicity
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Magginkat on May 2, 2008 4:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By the way is there any writer alive who can write an article today without using the word
misogyny? Personally, in all my life I don't think that I have ever been so sick of any single over used word as this one.
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» RE: Disappointing Article
Posted by: LTBROWN
» RE: Disappointing Article
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Disappointing Article
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Disappointing Article
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Disappointing Article
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
» RE: Disappointing Article
Posted by: improperly_sedated
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LTBROWN on May 2, 2008 4:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, they've turned on us. They've backstabbed the black community. Hillary has foreclosed on the black community at a time when we would have needed her to carry us like we carried them.
I've hated dirty, namecalling politics since I was a child. I always saw it as, someone with nothing real to say, trying to stir up a fight at the monkey bars, to keep kids after school. Only because the bully had nothing to go home too.
Hillary, run on your own merits if you feel you have any. You should be the last candidate playing dirty politics.
Get to the issues, right now. Like Obama is.
Rev. Wright is not running for any office. So what he says is not important. There is no monolithic thinking among black people no more then any other race. Bigots act like we have to have some leader. Like those days of leaving a mark X, and someone else sign for us. We read, write and think for ourselves america. Don't let these Jim Crow politics mislead you into thinking we are asleep. My leader is God, not any man or woman. Don't dare insult me with the crap on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC and others. No one speaks on my behalf. No way. We speak for ourselves. My pastor doesn't speak for me, no more then Barack's speak for him.
American's need to stop being duped. Get focused and lets hold these candidates to the issues that we care about.
Gas is over $4 a gallon and showing no signes of coming down. Tell me when my family is coming home from Iraq to stay. Tell me I can keep my home. I could care less what is said in pulpit. None of us really take it as gospel when it offends our person. So why let the media, snippet you to a foolish action?
Where are the independent thinkers?
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» RE: I have no respect left for the Clintons
Posted by: AWestColbert
» RE: I have no respect left for the Clintons
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: You should be greatefull for the Clintons and likewise
Posted by: niliadis
» RE: You should be greatefull for the Clintons and likewise
Posted by: Agi
» RE: I have no respect left for the Clintons
Posted by: maggzilla
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chuckjs on May 2, 2008 5:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I don't know why even women support this....
Posted by: richieb
» RE: I don't know why even women support this....
Posted by: laurelgreen
» RE: I don't know why even women support this....
Posted by: Rune
» RE: I don't know why even women support this....
Posted by: thealltheone
» RE: I don't know why even women support this....get real
Posted by: niliadis
» That can pretty well be summarized as:
Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: I don't know why even women support this....
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: supercrisp on May 2, 2008 5:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: KISS
Posted by: LTBROWN
» RE: KISS
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: KISS
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jasonix on May 2, 2008 5:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact that media doesn't question Clinton's lack of credentials, or pose the question of how a former FLOTUS becoming president would cause deep and lasting national shame that would demolish whatever is left of America's reputation as a modern state, proves that Clinton is not subject to media's "sexism," but benefits from the media's desire to avoid even the oblique appearance of it.
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» RE: Cowards who rate other folks' comments "1" anonymously...
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Cowards who rate other folks' comments "1" anonymously...
Posted by: Moira61
» AMEN, Jasonnix. That's why I blow off #1 ratings. They don't mean squat!
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Cowards who rate other folks' comments "1" anonymously...
Posted by: kimbari
» RE: Cowards who rate other folks' comments "1" anonymously...
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: xcuse me, but since when was being married to someone an accomplishment feministsts were proud of?
Posted by: Bibsisis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: US Citizen on May 2, 2008 5:32 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hillary Not a Master Politician
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Hillary Not a Master Politician
Posted by: thealltheone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Southern Gal on May 2, 2008 5:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: domelady on May 2, 2008 5:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both were statement of fact. We don't know Sen. Obama, that is why his pie in the sky is a fairy tale, and Jesse Jackson did win SC twice.
Who was the outraged blogger no one knows.
I have heard Sen Obama refer to Sen Clinton as Anne Oakley and much worse, since Anne Oakley was a hero to many little American girls in her day. He is condesending and plays the race card time and time again, but since HE is a black man no one is offended.
Apparently it is ok for a black to be racist but don't let a white person feel anything but love and acceptance or they are branded! I and many people I meet are sick and tired of being called racist just because we don't agree with the Sen. with NO experience on the national scene! Remember only a N.... can call another black person a N..... that comes from interviews of black people I have heard on tv.
Wake up this is no time for another President in training.
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» RE: Domelady
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: Domelady
Posted by: domelady
» RE: Domelady
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Domelady
Posted by: LucasRandles
» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Domelady
Posted by: desidid
» just a reminder:
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» When will we ever learn?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Domelady
Posted by: maggzilla
» RE: Domelady
Posted by: rickiey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: outsideagitator on May 2, 2008 6:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is unclear just how damaging the Reverend Wright's egocentric attack on Barack Obama and his campaign and his supporters will be but there is no uncertainty about the damage Senator Clinton's campaign is causing to the progressive wing of the party. Should she get the nomination I believe that the Dems will loose because too many people will just not vote for her.
I say that with great sadness. I think I am loosing some old friends in this fight.
Joseph
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» RE: What a tragedy in the making.
Posted by: Agi
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Posted by: GPFrank on May 2, 2008 6:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
used in the 1944 election, when admittedly he had nothing new to add in policies to what was then being accomplished' "I can get it for you wholesale."
From her attending enclaves of the secretive religious "The Family" group of elites including South American dictators to her familiarity with neo-cons she is touting her being in with the in-groups and using her head to crack all the glass ceilings. That is to the point of offering an oil tax benefit ostensibly for summer travelers but really amounting to another subsidy for the oil companies.
She ostensibly brags about her "Democratic" version of K street and therefore claims is not a hypocrite like her opponent.
But most of all she wants to demonstrate her "inness" with the Pentagon and intelligence wonks that she believes in her country right or wrong, by demonstrating her willingness to lie for her country, for all her dissimulation and lies she continues to tell; in all that sneakiness about "giving Bush authority" to invade Iraq but not herself declaring war.
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Posted by: BST on May 2, 2008 6:32 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary Clinton has been directly and consistently vilified using old gender slams about looks and age, voice and stature.
She has NOT engaged in race baiting; it is the media has taken every dig from Clinton about Obama and spun it into reference to his race.
As Bill Clinton, also pinned as being a racist, finally pointed out with frustration: Not with an office that's always been on 125th Street (instead of, let's say, Trump Tower.)
You say: "Thus, feminist opposition to the sexist treatment of Hillary Clinton has morphed into support for the candidate.."
Perhaps with some women, but not with this one. (And how many blacks back Obama simply because of his race? I notice this tends to be applauded as the hope of people who have for so long felt disenfranchised).
I will continue to swim against the tide of reproach against Clinton, weighing all of her time in office and the many kudos she has received that are never reported.
I want her to become the next President. She will be flawed yet terrific.
I find THIS article to be sexist. We women really CAN think and act beyond blind fealty.
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» RE: Oh, pullllleeeeze
Posted by: laurelgreen
» RE: Oh, pullllleeeeze
Posted by: DC2008
» RE: Oh, pullllleeeeze
Posted by: mustaang
» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Oh, pullllleeeeze
Posted by: kimbari
» RE: Oh, pullllleeeeze
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Oh, pullllleeeeze
Posted by: hagwind
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Q30 on May 2, 2008 6:51 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, Michelle Obama doesn't support Hillary. Is she a woman-hater too? Just curious.
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» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: Christie
Comments are closed-
Posted by: davisp on May 2, 2008 6:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's hope that Obama can stay above this kind of destructive opportunism.
Peggy Cooper Davis
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» RE: Brava for Facing Up to the Ugliness of Clinton's Campaign!
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Brava for Facing Up to the Ugliness of Clinton's Campaign!
Posted by: maggzilla
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Posted by: allhailtheduikkkinglush on May 2, 2008 7:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
monopoly at the hands of billhillary, attack
Hillbillary utilizing sexism techniques and you
blame democrats. the clintons at it again
dividing the democrats
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Posted by: alihirsch on May 2, 2008 7:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was a prank perpetrated by two young Boston radio geeks, just a way to get a story on the radio, but the mainstream media reported the story as if it were an example of true sexism, and that Clinton showed strength and calm in her response to it. Many once-undecided women voters in NH cited the incident as provoking their anger and prompting their sympathy vote for Clinton.
See www.newsbusters.org and www.hotair.com for some real reporting on this mythical sexist incident.
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» RE: "Iron my shirts" was faux sexism
Posted by: maggzilla
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Posted by: joze46 on May 2, 2008 8:04 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something else, but little talked about was something MSNBC telecast several days ago which blast open a barrier in racist examination no could have ever predicated, but shows in monumental order the race bating cable news has been doing. Brain Williams in a round robin discussion on MSNBC hosted a telecast to be sure will never be aired again. This is true; one of the Black political analysts came forward with a real shot across Integration front, for a primer racist statement. Here, she said Black/ White baby parenting produced prettier babies than Black/ Black baby parenting. Yikes. Well America Integration really has some questions now and MSNBC is avoiding all responsibility about this one, likely some how will blame it on the Clintons. LOL
Lately O’Reilly unloaded on MSNBC as a side addition exclaiming that the parent Company, GE, is doing business with Iran and the CEO knows it. Specifically mentioning the relationship to the weapons and IED’s used against our troops is perhaps supplied or supported by GE? Sheezam, Wide open treason is implied here. This is a most incredible statement, if true has similar damage as Obama has by all of sudden coming forward to realize his friend Reverend Wright is not the same person he knew twenty years ago.
For me, this notion of meeting secretly, with his Reverend Wright to censor himself when he ran for the Illinois Senate, in the basement before Obama initialized his Senatorial election shows enough hidden energy that Obama, will and, is doing a whole lot that not just as any politician does, but that is ruining the reputation of people of color, especially those of light skin, sneaking and lying about a truth that he himself knew and felt along time ago. It’s incredible that many don’t see this monument flaw in character that failed Martin Luther King’s basic test. No, Obama fail’s Judeo-Christian believes that are ideals made long before MLK. So, here do we have political supporters for Obama very willing to meet in the basement to conjure and scheme political policy for America.
From my view absolutely disgusting, Obama’s openly displays secret corruption and censure for favorite personal reasons rather then basic to Constitutional values of separation of Church and State. Here, now, as suggested by Sean Hannity Obama is part of a Black Radical movement and trying to separate from it while being caught in it. What was funny was on CNBC money station host Kudlow exclaims that Obama is nothing more than Black Power Lite. Yikes. Will he say that again?
From my view, all this stuff converging while Obama sits around in mild and calm conversations very separate from the wild ranting that Obama has the potential to do. For me Obama has that Appearance and smile like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, sitting or standing with the argument that there was no Jewish holocaust, similarly making that statement with a sublime smile he has nothing to with Reverend Wright after twenty years of close friendly relations. One remembers Obama saying he could not separate himself from this man Reverend Wright as his own Grand mother. I wonder if his Grand mother will get tossed under the bus.
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» RE: Mainstream Media is Key Player in Misinformation
Posted by: CJC
» RE: Mainstream Media is Key Player in Misinformation
Posted by: maggzilla
» RE: Mainstream Media is Key Player in Misinformation
Posted by: radiomorning
» Uh... Faux News is "mainstream media"?
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Mainstream Media is Key Player in Misinformation
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on May 2, 2008 8:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meanwhile, Obama THINKS when he talks, which is why his debate performances haven't been the best. But given the choice between a president who speaks his own thoughts instead of parroting handlers, I will take the former any day.
Plus Obama isn't a liar like Mrs. Sniper Fire. He also INSPIRES people, including Republicans, which the pandering Karaoke Candidate never does.
Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam veteran, lifelong registered Republican and ARDENT Obama supporter.
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» RE: The Karaoke Candidate
Posted by: outsideagitator
» You got that right, outsideagitator!
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: The Karaoke Candidate
Posted by: sp00n67
» Thanks, sp00n67.
Posted by: HughScott
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nobuko on May 2, 2008 8:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bill has LIED, CHEATED, SHAMED, BETRAYED the American Workers with the NAFTA Bill, then sealed the Media Coffin, by giving the Republicans the final control over the Fair Doctrine Act, to CONTROL the so-called Media, we now have today. She even Lobbied for Bill to get that NAFTA Bill Passed. Now who has screwed ... America, and the American People!
If anyone should be DENOUNCED, it should be Bill Clinton; she married him, she sleeps with him, all while he shares his body with others; He has SHAMED and Embarrassed, not only his Family, but the United States of America! How that man could be that Stupid and Weak, just boggles my mind, when he KNEW the Repukes was gunning for him, and had him already labelled as a WOMANIZER!
Obama doesn't sleep with Rev Wright, he only attends the church he use to Minister over; he had a congregation of 8,000, so there must be something REAL about this man! Hillary had her staff go over ALL his Sermons, and FINALLY found one that she could use against Obama; as if it's Obama giving the Sermon and pulled the Sound Bites she uses at every opportunity she can, to portray this man as traitor to America, when he Served in the Military. Any American knows, a Person of Color Life and Experience in America, is COMPLETELY different than that of a so-called White Person; 90% of us are so mixed with black and white blood that the only ones that can pass for white are the ones that "appear" white! I would bet my last dollar, that if we ALL had a DNA done, NONE of us would come up as Solidly Black or White!
I know Obama wants to stay on the High Ground, but I am sorry, it's time for him to SHUT HILLARY THE FREAK UP! For I would take out an Ad, asking Hillary, "When are you going to DENOUNCE Bill?" After all, he is not my husband who cheated on me, and LIED to America; Rev Wright didn't save the Blue Dress, Bill's young lover did. Rev Wright has not shamed me, you're trying to shame me, by taking his Sermon out of Context!
Obama did not have to go through your PRIVATE Business to EXPOSE Bill's AFFAIRS, the WHOLE DARN WORLD knows it, but I have not used that against you; but YOU choose to have your staff go through Rev Wrights Sermon to find SOUND BITES to discredit Obama, like the Rev is his Lover, Wife or Partner, or even Speaks for Obama!
How Stuck on Stupid will Americans Remain, they should have had ENOUGH of this BS! But I have to admit, its only the Racist's that will use this against Obama, because they wouldn't vote for him in the first place! If White America, allows another BUSH LIKE-Hillary, to Lie to us, to slime their way into office, well then, We DESERVE EVERYTHING WE GET; like the crap we're swimming in NOW, with MORE awaiting us.
America, We really haven't seen anything yet! You think Crime is BAD NOW, soon, we will be afraid to leave our homes for FEAR of Out-of-Work Americans, doing all the wrong things to SURVIVE!
Quite honestly, we need to DUMP this Government, and MOST of those GOOD OLE BOYS/GIRLS, and START ALL OVER AGAIN!
Barak, PLEASE give Hillary some of her own Medicine and SHUT HER THE FREAK UP!
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Posted by: arclight7 on May 2, 2008 8:20 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Spoken like a true bigot.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Spoken like a true bigot.
Posted by: outsideagitator
» On spot again, outsideagitator!
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Spoken like a true bigot.
Posted by: maggzilla
» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: Christie
» RE: NO ONE played the race card more that Obama
Posted by: radiomorning
» Then you should be able to list several examples
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: NO ONE played the race card more that Obama
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: Nightstallion on May 2, 2008 8:35 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: MsFeasance on May 2, 2008 9:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From a Booknotes Interview:
"LAMB: [Yale Law Prof Stephen Carter] says in the introduction that "Carol Moseley Braun, the only African-American on the Judiciary Committee, refused to meet with Guinier or to make a public comment." Is that true?
GUINIER: Well, she did not meet with me. That's true. In fact, after my nomination was withdrawn, she made a public comment that seemed to be sympathetic or supportive of the administration's decision."
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» Lani Guinier would make a great Supreme Court justice
Posted by: Rune
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Posted by: sick&tired on May 2, 2008 9:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think bringing up racial issues is racist in itself. These things need to be discussed. I think the attacks on Hillary are blatantly sexist and I haven't seen ANY blatant racist attacks on Obama. period. None.
He has had the advantage in the media from day one. People rarely say a bad word about him. Only hype. I think she has not been given fair and equal treatment in this campaign from the start. He has been given nothing short of a movie star idolization. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy but I don't like the unfair coverage on the campaign.
Poor Hillary gets blasted no matter what she does. The photos of her are always contorted facial expressions that they post. Never the many great shots of her. Always trying to show her as witchy, evil or "divisive". You have to give the woman credit for not complaining about her mistreatment more. She is trying to rise above it without drawing attention to it but I feel it's been HUGELY tolerated and that it's time people did say - ENOUGH ALREADY. We will not tolerate sexism any more that we tolerate racism!!
Let's make the presidential race fair and unbiased for EVERYONE.
Let's also address election reform too and avoid all this craziness by having all states vote on the same day. No more of this drawn out media frenzy where it brainwashes the voters to vote for who they want us to pick.
I could go on & on about election reform but I'll stop here. There's my 2 cents.
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» RE: I'm still waiting to know what she's done that's racist....
Posted by: sick&tired
» This is such a racist comment
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: I'm still waiting to know what she's done that's racist....
Posted by: kimbari
» You're wrong, kimbari, and here's why....
Posted by: papibear
» RE: I'm still waiting to know what she's done that's racist....
Posted by: desidid
» RE: I'm still waiting to know what she's done that's racist....
Posted by: DRANNAN
» RE: So Basically You Won't Vote For Him Because He's
Posted by: desidid
» RE: So Basically You Won't Vote For Him Because He's
Posted by: DRANNAN
» RE: So Basically You Won't Vote For Him Because He's
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: g50 on May 2, 2008 9:36 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: willymack on May 2, 2008 10:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on May 2, 2008 10:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: lorenbliss on May 2, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A look at affirmative action is especially instructive. Enacted in 1964 specifically to provide African American males with guaranteed access to the workforce -- remember that males were then the primary breadwinners in all races -- affirmative action was nevertheless quickly monopolized by white women.
Here are the damning statistics, taken from Statistical Abstract of the United States* and presented here in narrative form:
In 1960, 80.1 percent of the adult black-male population (for this purpose defined as age 16 and above), was part of the workforce -- that is, the people with jobs (including military service) or available for work. By 2005, only 67.3 percent of the nation’s adult black males were part of the workforce. This is a 45-year decline of 12.8 percent.
In 1960, 36.0 percent of the nation’s adult white female population was part of the workforce. By 2005, the participation of this demographic group in the workforce had grown to 58.9 percent. In other words, 58.9 percent of all adult white females (again for these purposes age 16 and above) were either working or seeking work -- a 45-year increase of 22.9 percent.
African-American females have also benefited from affirmative action, but not to the dramatic extent white females have. In 1960, 47.2 percent of the adult black female population were part of the workforce. By 2005, 61.6 percent were part of the workforce -- an increase of 14.4 percent.
The employment of white males meanwhile is also shrinking: 82.6 percent of the adult white male population in 1960, 74.1 percent of this demographic group in 2005, a reduction of 8.5 percent.
To summarize: from 1960 through 2005, participation of adult black males in the U.S. workforce was reduced by 12.8 percent, while participation of white males was reduced by 8.2 percent. Meanwhile during the same period white female participation was increased 22.9 percent while black female participation was raised by 14.4 percent.
Moreover, a 22.9 percent addition of white females to the workforce represents a disproportionately much larger number of jobs than the addition of 14.4 percent more black females. In 1960 there were 20.1 million white females in the workforce; by 2005, 58.9 million. By comparison, in 1960 there were 3.1 million black females in the workforce; in 2005 there were 9 million.
While these trends have been evident since the Carter years, the Clinton Administration -- clearly fearing their racial implications -- altered the presentation of data in an attempt to suppress the extent to which white women were benefiting from affirmative action. From 1997 through 2000, the public was allowed to see merely that the overall percentage of male participation in the workforce was declining as the female percentage increased -- not how this was affecting the individual races.
Thus Ms. Clinton’s association with deliberately racist practices -- a suggestive connection from which the Obama campaign could reap a whirlwind of advantageous innuendo -- extends back at least 11 years. Thus too I am not the least surprised she is pandering to racism -- precisely what one would expect of a former “Goldwater Girl.”
_________
*Sources: Statistical Abstract of the United States; section, “Labor Force, Employment and Earnings”; table: “Labor Force and Participation Rates by Race, Sex and Age” (all editions from 1960 through 2007, spot checks of 1967, 1977, 1987, 2007 editions).
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» RE: Racist Feminism
Posted by: sick&tired
» More racism from a supposed "feminist"
Posted by: Kym525
» God, I love you. You just put a cap on this entire thread for me. /nm
Posted by: kimbari
» RE: God, I love you. You just put a cap on this entire thread for me. /nm
Posted by: outsideagitator
» AMEN, Kym525! AMEN!
Posted by: papibear
» RE: acist Feminism
Posted by: desidid
» RE: acist Feminism
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
» Quakers couldn't have done it alone
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on May 2, 2008 10:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She shouldn't have to subject herself to this kind of pandering to an anxious public. If she claims to have been a victim of Republican-backed smear politics aided by the likes of talk radio and FOX News-she's as guilty as the other camp.
Now, in order to secure the Democratic party's nomination, she looks more like the type of candidate we didn't WANT her to be: one who employs a "Swift boat"-style to discredit a person.
A candidate would sell him/herself out just to be elected. In today's American political arena, there is no Angela Merkel-type person in this country.
It would be wise if Hillary listened to that old Alice Cooper song "Elected" and try to be the candidate who ran for the presidency in 2004.
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Posted by: Crazy H on May 2, 2008 11:07 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Okay, Obama lost a few percentage points in the polls...today. Given the attention span of the average American, we'll have all forgotten about it by November.
Obama is the next president if we all can keep our eyes on the ball.
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on May 2, 2008 11:16 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Think that this is a conspiracy? Not at all. CIA and FBI types posing as radical feminists regularly entered antiwar protests to angrily denounce the "male chauvinist pigs" who controlled the organizations. Any efforts at silencing them would be denounced as "sexism in action."
That was Operation CHAOS, run by the CIA from ~1963 to 1969. It grew out of earlier efforts in the 1950s, when youth groups in Europe were heavily infiltrated by both Soviet and Western intelligence services as part of the Cold War "struggle for hearts and minds". Those tactics were then applied in the United States during the sixties, and their use grew explosively as anti-war groups began to form all across the country.
Most of what the CIA did was focused on behavior modification and fell under the general theme of anti-Soviet, anti-communist behavior. This is all very well documented, and was done under "Project MKULTRA" and similar guises. The rationale was that the public might fall under the sway of Soviet psychological propaganda, so a "counterpropaganda" system was needed.
In other words, in the 1960s a domestic "counterinsurgency" operation was launched that relied heavily on CIA and academic psychologists for advice. The essential goal was to control public opinion and perception in the name of fighting communism.
The FBI's role centered around a somewhat different issue: race and the demand for civil rights by a wide variety of people - blacks, latinos, asians, women, 18 to 21 year olds who couldn't vote. The FBI is a very curious body - they aren't really police, nor are they military. They are perhaps best classified as the political police, even thought they have worked hard to portray themselves strictly as finders of serial killers.
What the FBI wanted to do, under Hoover, was to disrupt any groups that could possibly form larger organizations. They didn't want any more Martin Luther Kings leading million man marches to Washington - they wanted to destroy such organized movements, which they claimed would lead to communist totalitarian governments. They thus targeted Black Panthers, and attempted to drive wedges between east and west coast groups. This was mostly exposed as "Operation COINTELPRO" - but that was just one small end of a much larger general program, which might be summed up as "Selling America the Fair, America the Beautiful".
So, why are we focusing on race and gender in this race and not on the issues that Martin Luther King tackled - the gross economic disparity, not just within the United States, but between the United States and what can only be described as our foreign colonies?
Try this: enter the following in a Google Search Box:
"Gloria Steinem" CIA New York Times 1967
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» Armageddon tiebreaker. Of the 3 front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama.
Posted by: HughScott
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Posted by: dgleason on May 2, 2008 11:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think Hillary Clinton is smart and policy competent. I was uncomfortable with how Nafta played out, I thought Bill Clinton in the Whitehouse under any capacity was not a distraction we needed, and I believed that it was unlikely that she would dismantle the unitary executive movement preferring to use it.
I recognized the mysogeny, but it seemed that there was something divisive about her nature that went beyond resistance to women. I don't doubt that a man would not have this burden, and that it is not fair.
Then the race bating started filtering from the Clinton campaign and I was disgusted. I will remain disgusted with her until she comes clean.
Our country can not afford this kind of politician any more, whichever side of the political spectrum they are on.
Quite frankly I think a race bater is more dispicable than a racist. There is a certain unconsciousness about some forms of racism.
I would add that I have not seen Obama resort to this type of tactic once. I am tired of the media equating the two candiates behavior, objectively it is not even close to the same. But we don't get much objectivity these days, perhaps we are going to have to learn to function without it.
Obama's test will be to hold his own and find a voice of strength to confront what is being thrown at him without giving up his principals. He will need that strength and he will need the absense of malice that has imbued his political career and is the primary source of the wellspring of 'hope' people talk about.
While it is easy to nominalize 'hope' as a fairy tale there is something very concrete about the hope that Obama call's for, many of us who support him do so because they want to be a part of making America less divided not more so and the difference in his rhetoric is that he seems to actually do that, call to the center, to what is possible. Hillary Clinton very clearly does not, everywhere she goes she increases hostility and division.
It will be telling if America allows this possibility to be cheaply tarnished and those who do so, like Hillary, damage America as much as they do their own party.
It is this willingness to damage America in pursuit of personal objectives that I believe disqualifies her for the presidency, her sex does not trump that.
In the long run we are more accountable for our own then we are for the other guy. If we tollerate race bating in her and still vote for her we are guilty of it as well.
Sincerely,
Danielle
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» Excellent comment, dgleason.
Posted by: HughScott
» Exactly right! Great comment.
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Clinton's race bating damages America and disqualifies her
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Clinton's race bating damages America and disqualifies her
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: Clinton's race bating damages America and disqualifies her
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Clinton's race bating damages America and disqualifies her
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: Clinton's race bating damages America and disqualifies her
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: HughScott on May 2, 2008 11:43 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Put in that intolerable situation at Gitmo, Osama Been Forgotten would give up his entire worldwide terrorist network!
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Posted by: CJC on May 2, 2008 11:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
______________________
Drake Bennett writes how different expressions of bias may be working to affect voters'
impressions of the Democratic contenders for the presidential nomination ("Choose
One, Black Man White Woman," Ideas, p 1 Feb 17)
Race is a social definition with greater or lesser salience in different places
and different times. In Britain, just for one example, "Asian" refers
to people from Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh, a category hardly relevant in the
U.S. The silly discussion about whether Barack Obama is "black" enough
has nothing to do with his skin color and everything to do with the fact that his
"black" parent was a citizen of Kenya and not a descendant of slaves in
the U.S. like most American blacks.
Gender is completely different. With rare exceptions we're all either male or
female and we have a parent of the opposite sex from us. Unless we live in a single-sex
religious community we have experience of each other every day. Gender is fundamental
to our biology and our social life.
It's odd that Bennett wrote about stereotypes "we" have of women.
How one-sided is that? All of us have stereotypes of both sexes. What's politically
relevant is how those stereotypes affect our ideas of who is suitable to hold public
office and whether we believe a woman can be a successful president.
Bennett made no reference to women leaders who currently or recently held office
around the world - Angela Merkel of Germany; Margaret Thatcher, United Kingdom;
Benazir Bhutto, Pakistan; Indira Ghandi, India; etc. In some cases family and elite
status trump gender and in others maybe it's the particular political environment.
The U.S. is not the center of the universe. (And we do have women governors.)
What's relevant for the Democrats is their collective judgment about which candidate
has the experience, the character, the ideas, the history that will appeal to the
greatest number of voters in November. Hillary Clinton is not just a 60 year old
Senator from New York. She is also a lawyer who worked for the Children's Defense
Fund, defended WalMart and is the spouse of a former governor and president. Barack
Obama is not just a 46 year old Senator from Illinois. He was a state representative
and community organizer. He has, for better or worse, a shorter political history
and probably fewer long-term supporters and entanglements. Well, one of them is
female, the other is black. So what? One will be nominated to run for President
in August.
John McCain is a white male who will have to defend George W. Bush's record.
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» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: acism vs sexism
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Betsy L. Angert on May 2, 2008 12:03 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thank you for this interesting tome. It was and is a wondrous read. I greatly appreciate the research and the considerations.
I was among those who once thought I admired Hillary Clinton. That time has come and gone. I supported her first Senatorial run. My entire family and I were frequent contributors. For me, once the former First Lady took office I saw what is now more pronounced. The description you pen was obvious to me early in her first term.
Clinton's decision to play the hawk may have had other motivations. Perhaps she really believed that voting to authorize the war in Iraq was the right thing to do (which is, arguably, even more worrying). But her posture in this campaign -- threatening to "totally obliterate" Iran after being asked how she would respond in the highly improbable event of an Iranian nuclear strike against Israel, for example -- has at least something to do with a desire to compete on a macho foreign policy playing field. It's the woman in this Democratic primary race who has the cowboy swagger: the nationalist and militaristic rhetoric, the whiskey-swilling photo-ops, the gotcha attacks for perceived insults to a working-class electorate (as in "Bittergate") that is usually depicted as white and male.
Relatives of mine, women and men, since this recent campaign have decided they cannot support her. As much as we may have thought a woman in the White House would be ideal, we agree, not that woman.
Someone I have been extremely close to for most of life was fine with Hillary or Barack throughout the campaign, that is, until a few weeks ago.
I inscribed the story of Jennifer Wills and her conversion. This fifty-five year old white woman, a self-proclaimed feminist, average American voter, and a person of devout faith can no longer stand by and watch Hillary Clinton cast stone after stone. As an educator in a religious school, Jennifer does not wish her students to emulate a cruel Commander-In-Chief.
I invite your review and reflections. Please share any thoughts you might have . . .
Reverend Wright, Senators Obama and Clinton, Moral Issues; Reality of Relationships
Betsy L. Angert
BeThink.org
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» Thank you for this comment, Betsy
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Senators Obama and Clinton, Moral Issues
Posted by: dgleason
Comments are closed-
Posted by: observing on May 2, 2008 12:12 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When it comes to the issues, Nader still has his head screwed on, but, of course, he's unelectable. Sigh!
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» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: None of the three remaining candidates
Posted by: CJC
» Good start, now poke your head all the way out of the box
Posted by: Rune
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nomomorons on May 2, 2008 12:39 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just got the information that it was Bill Clinton who booked Rev.
Wright to go on the National Press Club where he went off on Obama,
etc. Joe Scarborough on MSNBC said that another reporter, Mica
Brazinski suggested that Clinton's were the ones to set up this fall
before the May 6th primary and Joe denied and called it conspiracy.
And now he said in fact it was true!
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Posted by: Wilhelmina on May 2, 2008 12:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before the SC election all of the television commentators were saying that Hillary would have a difficult time winning in SC because the Democratic party in SC was about 52% black. Also, it was a historical fact that Jesse Jackson won the democratic nomination in SC in '84 and '88.
Why was it racist, then, for Bill Clinton to mention these same facts?
Obama sent out a memo to be used to be used to frame the Clintons as playing the race card. It was published on the Huffington Post on Jan. 12, 2008, 4:02 p.m. Some people believe that Obama thought his only chance to stay in the race after NH was to play the race card and blame the Clintons.
I think that is the most egregious kind of attack because I hate bigotry so much. I have been concerned about various kinds of bigotry since I was seven years old. I can't imagine how it would feel to have the entire country think I was a bigot.
People used the original memo Obama Campaign memo for their talking points to frame the Clintons as racist. A quote from the article:
"The Obama campaign recently prepared a detailed memo, obtained by the Huffington Post and made public elsewhere, listing various instances in which it perceived the Clinton's campaign to have deliberately played the race card in the Democratic primary."
Another item on the Obama memo was that Hillary was racist for saying that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 could not have been passed at the time without the help of Lyndon Johnson. It is another historical fact that Johnson used his knowledge of the Congress to get the Act passed. He also called in all of the favors owed to him. So why was it racist for Hillary to say that?
Playing the race card and blaming it on the Clintons may have helped Obama win some of the primaries and the black vote but in the long run it has made it impossible for Obama to win in Nov. He has brought out long latent racial feelings to the surface and set race relations back by 30 years.
White voters are angry that the Clintons, who worked for racial equality their entire lives have now been swift-boated so that "the first Black President" is no a "racial bigot."
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» Racism aside, Hillary has openly expressed contempt for Obama, which he NEVER did to her.
Posted by: HughScott
» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Obama sent out the race memo that started the race card.
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: The Cynical Skeptic on May 2, 2008 12:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I fear that Hillary's, slash and burn regardless of cost, approach may be a set back in the future for the millions of intelligent, articulate, politically astute women and their righteous quest for full participation in the election process up to and including the U.S. presidency.
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» RE: Contempt for O'Hillary is not misogyny.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Mystery Solver on May 2, 2008 2:35 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The Manchurian Candidate
Posted by: CJC
» f the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Opus007 on May 2, 2008 2:40 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Command8 on May 2, 2008 2:53 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a tricky situation the Clinton Campaign are playing haut politics, killing two birds with one stone--scaring White folk and angering Black folk to the point that some are saying they will vote for McCain or not at all. This is exactly what they want just before the N. Carolina primary. Remember it was the Clintons that started this Rev. Wright thing in the first place. Barack has to reach back out to Black folks right now. He needs to reach out to the Black Nationalist folk who have never thought Barack to be Black enough for them in the first place; the kind of folk that overcame their misgivings about Obama because of their desire to see "it happen" in their lifetime.
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Posted by: Jeanne on May 2, 2008 3:02 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It's not gender
Posted by: dgleason
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BayAreaVoter on May 2, 2008 4:06 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And while you always bash any kind of female identity politics (maybe women WANT to vote for her) I NEVER hear any comments about identity politics concerning the 90% of the African American vote going to Obama. Oh, that's okay.
And what are women waiting for? Do they really think they need to wait for a woman who is not flawed? Kerry and Gore were flawed and women voted for them. Certainly Obama has lots going against him but that doesn't seem to matter to these liberal women who feel so good about themselves that they can vote for an African American man. Racial redemption!
Get over yourselves. Hillary may not be perfect but she is brilliant and has great ideas. Chelsea is right, she'll make a better president than Bill. And as we all know, Bill was flawed. But these so-called progressives, blinded by their self-righteousness, love to dump all over the only Democratic president elected to 2 terms since FDR. Obama will never beat McCranky in the General Election and you can sit around and cry with your Messiah (we are the ones we've been waiting for?)
Oh, and thanks for mentioning the 4-page memorandum Obama's staff released following his LOSS in New Hampshire HOW TO ACCUSE THE CLINTONS OF RACISM. They knew they had to peel the AA vote away from Hillary and they succeeded. Since then every time he loses to her in primary after primary they pull the same stunt all over again with the racism charge.
Wise up, oh lefty media--you're being played!!
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» Of the three presidential front-runners, two would nuke Iran. That leaves Obama. Enough said.
Posted by: HughScott
» Enough said.
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Hillary is NO RACIST
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
» RE: Hillary is NO RACIST
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Kym525 on May 2, 2008 5:22 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right-wing mouthpieces are doing exactly what they do best and the American people--many of them sheep--have bought into it. The bottom line is this ladies and gentlemen: We have a historic candidacy featuring two historic disenfranchised groups, black men and white women. These two candidates do not differ greatly in their views--maybe except for health care, but even then both agree the system we have in place now is failing.
We as the constituency have the groundbreaking opportunity to turn things around by concentrating not on hand-selected soundbites, but on SUBSTANCE and what have most of you done? You "either/or" feminists threw the first punch with the "vote for Hilary or you're supporting the patriarchy" bullshit, which completely dismisses the feelings and the history of women of colour. There's one so-called "feminist" in here who prefers to blame the victim for their disenfranchisement and makes the spurious claim that it is the fault of black women for not taking advantage of the opportunities given to them--even though more black women are in college these day and in professional positions. The Archie Bunker contingent will vote race rather than issues because they'd rather go to hell than admit a black or a female candidate has more in common with them than the Republican dude who wants to continue sending our best and brightest into the quagmire that is Iraq and who thinks our economy is just dandy. We've allowed the right to use their own misogyny and racism against us.
Liberals have completely lost sight of what matters most and because of that blindness, we may end up losing big time in November. Ask yourself this question--what does Hilary's power pantsuit or Obama's minister have to do with the foreclosure crisis or the fact that gas is over four freaking bucks a gallon. If you answer rightfully--which in NOTHING--then get real!
Now, if those things like the pantsuit and the minister bother you, then consider this: McCain will also have the power to add at least THREE more judges on the Supreme Court. Guess what folks--bend over and kiss your civil liberties and Roe v. Wade goodbye.
Something to consider. Peace.
Obama '08
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» RE: How the HELL did we get to this point???
Posted by: Agi
Comments are closed-
Posted by: old prof on May 2, 2008 5:24 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in which Atticus Finch declares that Tom Robinson's only crime was that, as a black man, he dared to feel sorry for a white woman. Clinton is essentially sending a coded message that Obama is elitist (translated as "uppity black man") for daring to feel sorry for white working class people. It's a shame that Clinton feels it necessary to resort to Jim Crow tactics in order to win an election.
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Posted by: SusanMcGee on May 2, 2008 6:48 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But what I don't understand is progressive left wingers, including feminists, who expect Sen. Clinton to be anti-racist, but don't expect ANYTHING from Senator Obama about denouncing sexism.
Both candidates should be decrying ALL oppressions.
But I don't think I've ever heard that from an Obama supporter. Why have none of the Obama supporters, particularly feminists, challenged him to speak out against sexism? Why is Sen. Clinton held accountable but Sen. Obama is not?
I wonder if it's deep seated internalized sexism that says that men must always be more important than women, and if a man does something as well as a woman (like housework) he must be praised to the skies as an exceptional individual.
Susan McGee (who will be supporting the Democrat who is nominated)
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» Has Hillary spoken out against racism?
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: when will Obama speak out about sexism?
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
» Good point
Posted by: westomoon
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SusanMcGee on May 2, 2008 7:02 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, this is alternet..yet there are multiple posts denying the reality of sexism.
Disgusting.
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» What's disgusting is the contempt Hillary has shown for Obama since her campaign started.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: not really fair
Posted by: Jeanne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cdcmtotr on May 2, 2008 7:52 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She has held up to my expectations of her. Fight to win and drag down the Democratic Party if she couldn't win fair and square.
I marched during the civil rights movement when she was helping Goldwater and Nixon. I am digusted by her and her husbands dirty politics.
I want a women to be President, but I am waiting for the right one and Hillary is not it.
I hope the superdelegates don't push her in so I can hold my nose, vote for her instead of McStain, and then leave the Democratic Party.
When will the Hillary supports, blue collar workers.etc wake up and see that she is and was a NAFTA supporter from way back when, Miltary Complex backer, and a phoney???
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Posted by: intheknow on May 2, 2008 9:01 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: intheknow
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz on May 2, 2008 9:12 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Washington, D.C., Group Accused of High-Tech Dirty Tricks to Suppress Black Vote
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Posted by: metoo on May 3, 2008 12:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you suspect that Obama cannot win in November against McCain the task is to stop him from being nominated, and that is what Hillary needs to do. To Bad if the New Obama followers don't have the stomach for the process of an election, it's about winning not about pacifying dreamers.
The choice comes down to who wins, not who played this card or that card. Obama was the first to attack Clinton by claiming that she was the same kind of person that has been running the country in the pass 7 years. One would hear the "Same old Politics" every time Obama opened his mouth. Obama's way of categorizing Clinton as a poor candidate, a bad choice, an extension of the republicans. But when she retaliated the Obama supporters acted as if Clinton was the aggressor. Well, to me, that sort of logic is baloney.
Obama cannot win in Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, the Swing states or any of the RED States so how do the Obama supporters plan on winning the general election?
Elections are a theatrical presentation to reach a mathematical conclusion and if you Do the Math, you will discover that Obama will not be President.
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» Well duh!
Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
» RE: Leadership by Vindication
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Leadership by Vindication
Posted by: metoo
» Oh, no you didn't!
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Her Duty Is To Be True To Herself
Posted by: desidid
» RE: wow.
Posted by: CJC
Comments are closed-
Posted by: OK Granny on May 3, 2008 12:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Mary Holmes
Posted by: CJC
Comments are closed-
Posted by: desidid on May 3, 2008 6:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: niliadis on May 3, 2008 6:38 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
writing a little negative article is really not very much accomplishments..
I disagree with what is written in this article and feel it is only written because somehow the author does not give much about the reality that Hillary does not need to play the race card..She is qualified, strong, has perserance, passion and conviction and is very much accomplished...jealosy make wanabe writers say or implicate negatives...or could it be Betsy here is a supporter of Obama who has supported a Radical racist, American hater who screems out God "D" America and by the way
Betsy you and I amre America!
Then you'll Betsy will write how Obama denounced his radical racist American hater..
I say a great action which only proved that it was only done as a self serving political strategy..He will do anything or say anything at this point... I will also say that he supported this varmit radical racist Anti-American for twenty years...so his denouncement comes TWENTY YEARS TO LATE...
Betsy its ok to be a little jealous and use your little power to promote and use your card.
