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An Atheist Goes Undercover to Join the Flock of Mad Pastor John Hagee

By Matt Taibbi, RollingStone.com. Posted May 5, 2008.


In this excerpt from his new book, Matt Taibbi shares his experiences at a Hagee's boot camp for new converts.
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The following is an excerpt from Matt Taibbi's new book, The Great Derangement" (Spiegel and Grau, 2008). Update: Matt Taibbi has responded to readers concerns about a passage in this excerpt. Response pasted at the bottom.

I pulled into the church parking lot a little after 6:00 p.m., at more or less the last possible minute. The previous half hour or so I'd spent dawdling in my car outside a Goodwill department store off Route 410 in San Antonio, clinging to some inane sports talk show piping over my car radio -- anything to hold off my plunge into Religion.

There was an old-fashioned white school bus in front of the church entrance, with a puddle of heavyset people milling around its swinging door. Some of these were carrying blankets and sleeping bags. My heart, already pounding, skipped a few extra beats. The church circulars had said nothing about bringing bedding. Why did I need bedding? What else had I missed?

"Excuse me," I said, walking up to an in-charge-looking man with a name tag who was standing near the front of the bus. "I see everyone has blankets. I didn't bring any. Is this going to be a problem?"

The man was about five feet one and had glassy eyes. He looked up at me and smiled queerly.

"Name?" he said.

"Collins," I said. "Matthew Collins."

He scanned his clipboard, found my name on the appropriate sheet of paper, and X-ed me out with a highlighter. "Don't worry, Matthew," he said, resting his hand on my shoulder. "A wonderful woman named Martha is going to take care of you at the ranch. You just tell her what you need when you get there."

I nodded, glancing at his hand, which was still on my shoulder. He waved me into the bus.

I had been attending the Cornerstone Church for weeks, but this was really my first day of school. I had joined Cornerstone -- a megachurch in the Texas Hill Country -- to get a look inside the evangelical mind-set that gave the country eight years of George W. Bush. The church's pastor, John Hagee, is one of the most influential evangelical preachers in the country -- not because his ministry is so very large (although he claims up to 4.5 million viewers a week for his Sunday sermons) but because of his near-absolute conquest of a very trendy niche in the market: Christian Zionism.

The whole idea behind Christian Zionism is to align America with the nation of Israel so as to "hurry God up" in his efforts to bring about Armageddon. As Hagee tells it, only after Israel is involved in a final showdown involving a satanic army (in most interpretations, a force of Arabs led by Russians) will Christ reappear. On that happy day, Hagee and his True Believers will be whisked up to Heaven by God, while the rest of us nonbelievers are left behind on Earth to suck eggs and generally suffer various tortures.

So here I was, standing in the church parking lot, having responded to church advertisements hawking an "Encounter Weekend" -- three solid days of sleep-away Christian fellowship that would teach me the "joy" of "knowing the truth" and "being set free." That had sounded harmless enough, but now that I was here and surrounded by all of these blanket-bearing people, I was nervous. When most Americans think of the Christian right, they think of scenes from television -- great halls full of perfectly groomed people in pale suits and light-colored dresses, smiling and happy and full of the Holy Spirit, robotically singing hymns at the behest of some squeaky-clean pastor with a baritone voice and impossible hair. We don't get to see the utterly batshit world they live in, when the cameras are turned off and their pastors are not afraid of saying the really dumb stuff, for fear of it turning up on CNN. In American evangelical Christianity, in other words, there's a ready-for-prime-time stage act -- toned down and lip-synced to match a set of PG lyrics that won't scare the advertisers -- and then there's the real party backstage, where the spiritual hair really gets let down. I was about to go backstage, to personally take part in the indoctrination process for a major Southern evangelical church. Waiting to board the bus for the Encounter Weekend, I had visions of some charismatic ranch-land Jesus, stoned on beer and the Caligula director's cut and too drunk late at night to chase after the minor children, hauling me into a barn for an in-the-hay shortcut to truth and freedom. Ridiculous, of course, but I really was afraid, mostly of my own ignorance and prejudices. I had never been to something like this before, and I didn't know how to act. I badly wanted to be invisible.

The bus was nearly full, and mostly quiet. Here and there a few people sitting together or near each other huddled and chatted, but I could see right away that a great many people on the trip had come alone, like me. They were people of all sorts: younger white men in neat middle-class haircuts, a matronly Mexican woman quietly reading a romance novel, a few scattered weather-beaten black folk in secondhand clothing whom I immediately pegged as in-recovery addicts, a couple of ten-alarm soccer moms who would prove the loudest people on the bus by far, a few quiet older men of military bearing.


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Matt Taibbi is a writer for Rolling Stone.

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View:
What Is Being Described Is A Cult
Posted by: NoPCZone on May 5, 2008 1:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is not mainstream Christian practice, doctrine or belief. It is not, however uncommon.

Sadly, but in truth, a teaching of grace, mercy and peace has been corrupted by carnival barkers who do it for profit, self-aggrandizement and political reasons. Jesus warned his followers that people would come in with other teachings and private agendas and described them as wolves in sheep's clothing. I would offer that these are some of the very type of people he warned of.

What is truly sad is that so many seeking peace, love, grace, community and understanding to deal with their lives are used by these charlatans. They are burdened with fear, hatred and guilt and then sold a bill of goods like the snake oil of old.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» MAINSTREAM? Posted by: soowee
» RE: MAINSTREAM? Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: A sucker born every minute Posted by: cwilsondrum
» ALL religions are cults Posted by: pete ess
» RE: ALL religions are cults Posted by: NoPCZone
SERIOUS PROBLEMS REQUIRE SERIOUS SOLUTIONS
Posted by: skizum on May 5, 2008 3:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People have some very basic psychological, physical, spiritual, intellectual and emotional needs that they feel compelled to fulfill. Our current (and past) societies have very rarely been able to fully satisfy the basic needs of the individual.

Simply stated, religion offers people the opportunity to fulfill some of these basic needs. These ultra hardcore religious experiences offer the fulfillment of these basic needs in dramatic fashion; thus greatly enhancing their emotional appeal in the search for identity, security, love and so forth.

The psychological techniques used to sway peoples beliefs are, indeed, very effective as we see this phenomenon continue to grow in popularity and influence. The question is, how do we effectively deal with this disconcerting trend?

It seems to me that there are 4 basic strategies which must be simultaneously employed in order to deal with this phenomenon before it's influence irreparably harms the prospects for creating a sustainable, peaceful and just world.

1) Prevention - People who are drawn to fanatical cults are those people who have no or very little hope of finding security and acceptance elsewhere. These are people who are experiencing varying degrees of desperation. We need to reduce the conditions which create desperation, locally and globally. Less desperate people = less desperate situations. What is it that each one of us can do in our daily lives to reduce or eliminate desperate conditions?

2) Alternatives - Wouldn't it make sense that if there were other organizations and resources that were as emotionally and spiritually engaging to desperate people as these cults are, then there is a chance that desperate populations could gravitate towards those as well? Where are these great organizations, concepts, events, activities and the like?

3) Understanding - One thing that we really could use is a basic set of rational and objective guidelines to what our most basic needs are as human beings and how these needs can be balanced to achieve a humane lifestyle. If we could decode the "human nature influenced by human nurture to determine human behavior" code, it might go a long way fix fixing a lot of the problems we have here on earth.

4) Fight the Power - The mechanisms of manipulation and domination take many forms. If you are not part of the solution then you are not part of fixing the problem. Its up to everyone who wants to see a better world to actively stand up for what they believe in, point out and speak up against those who seek to manipulate and dominate to their own egoistic ends. Repetition, repetition, repetition...

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» an excellent comment! Posted by: zooeyhall
» Great post Posted by: pete ess
» RE: Great post Posted by: Lauren
And I Suppose to Believe This Story
Posted by: vitajay85 on May 5, 2008 3:32 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...coming from an atheist, one who does not believe in God? Sounds like the author is trying to "discredit" John Hagee by going out on a "witch hunt".

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Exactly Posted by: liberalibrarian
» RE: You bet your ass!! Posted by: cwilsondrum
Here they come
Posted by: LMNOP on May 5, 2008 3:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Already, two out of the first three responses are from people defending this crap. People, do yourselves a favor: stifle. We know what religion is and does even if you don't, and all of these apologetics are useless and pointless.

Let the games begin!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Here they come Posted by: donl51
» Fundamentalist atheists... Posted by: buffeliscious
» No oxy qualifer Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: No oxy qualifer Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: No oxy qualifer Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: No oxy qualifer Posted by: buzzsaw
» RE: No oxy qualifer Posted by: john mont
» RE: Fundamentalist atheists... Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Fundamentalist atheists... Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Fundamentalist atheists... Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» without reading all the posts Posted by: liberalibrarian
» Fundamentalist? Posted by: factbased
» RE: Fundamentalist? Posted by: Xynyx
Remember, everyone
Posted by: kiel on May 5, 2008 5:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That Hagee supports W and McSame. He's clearly an extremist megalomaniac, yet the MSM won't scrutinize him the same way they've sliced and diced Rev. Wright. Why? I think we know...

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What about the food matt?
Posted by: wittler youth on May 5, 2008 5:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you totaley left out what they feed you and how many times..??lol..must of been better than dumpster fare..other wise i can see you doing a whole page just on that//..true seekers know who feeds the best..just follow the fat and feeble minded to find true fellow ship..

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» RE: What about the food matt? Posted by: VZEQICVA
I cast out the demon of incest!
Posted by: bitsfick on May 5, 2008 5:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He doesn't know his bible very well.

"One day the older daughter said to her sister, "There isn’t a man anywhere in this entire area for us to marry. And our father will soon be too old to have children. Come, let’s get him drunk with wine, and then we will sleep with him. That way we will preserve our family line through our father." So that night they got him drunk, and the older daughter went in and slept with her father. He was unaware of her lying down or getting up again.
"The next morning the older daughter said to her younger sister, "I slept with our father last night. Let’s get him drunk with wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him. That way our family line will be preserved." So that night they got him drunk again, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. As before, he was unaware of her lying down or getting up again. So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father." (Genesis 19:23-25, 30-36 , NLT)

Why is this not condemned in the bible? Next question, where did all the wine come from?

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» RE: I cast out the demon of incest! Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» Rape More Likely Posted by: Arlene
What it Voltaire who said:
Posted by: Last Chance on May 5, 2008 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." ?

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» RE: To which Weinberg added... Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: To which Weinberg added... Posted by: HoboHomo
rough ride
Posted by: grmartin on May 5, 2008 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These indoctrinees all sound like sad victims of life, just to be re-victimized again at Jesus camp. Just reading about it scared me, thank God I had my green prayer cloth for support! Seriously, when large segments of the population are involved in this, we're talking about a serious problem.

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» Green prayer cloth? Posted by: 2dogarage
» RE: Green prayer cloth? Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: Green prayer cloth? Posted by: liberalibrarian
» RE: Green prayer cloth? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Green prayer cloth? Posted by: liberalibrarian
The Brain
Posted by: LeaderofMen on May 5, 2008 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Given that a large number of people seem to cling to mythology and beliefs instead of reality we really must consider this.

It's entirely possible that despite the fact that we can create things like nuclear power, can see into space to nearly the beginning of time, and know what an attosecond is, we're still in our infancy as a species.

We have marvels that religion could never even image because some of us are actually MORE EVOLVED than the rest. Evolution is not done with our species. Until we wrest ourselves out of our infancy (eg, the reliance on myths and superstition to guide us) we're going to continue to see things similar to this - and FAR worse - for the rest of human civilization.

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» RE: The Brain Posted by: Lauren
» You cannot attach a value Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: More Evolved Posted by: solrev
» RE: More Evolved Posted by: Lauren
» society Posted by: e rice
» RE: society Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The Brain Posted by: talkville
» RE: The Brain Posted by: Dboy
Holy shit!
Posted by: witchjug on May 5, 2008 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is moments like this that galvanize my militant atheism.

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» RE: Holy shit! Posted by: donl51
» RE: Holy shit! Posted by: Xynyx
Sins worthy of attack
Posted by: loneswaneast on May 5, 2008 6:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sounds like they are forgetting to focus on the sins most damaging to this country....greed and gluttony. Of course, they are the worst purveyors of both!

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» RE: Sins worthy of attack Posted by: donl51
A Curiosity and the Essential Question
Posted by: WaldoMaui on May 5, 2008 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's curious that neither Fortenberry nor Hagee mentions Jesus.

If they truly do believe in the Prince of Peace, how did they turn him into Rambo?

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Mythology and Beliefs
Posted by: I.M. Hagar on May 5, 2008 7:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mythologies are not the antithesis of reality--they are synthesized from experience.

Neurons firing in the brain do create elements of reality, but the firing of neurons can also be initiated by beliefs. Beliefs create reality in many ways, even scientific ones.

Healthy mythology helps humans enjoy a shared social reality. The mythology hawked by Hagee and his cohort denies the value of a shared human community and demonizes anyone outside its boundaries, but its appeal is that everyone is welcome to try it. Is the University this welcoming?

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» RE: Mythology and Beliefs Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Mythology and Beliefs Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Mythology and Beliefs Posted by: Lauren
THANKS TO THE AUTHOR FOR DOING HIS HOMEWORK
Posted by: VZEQICVA on May 5, 2008 7:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's time we had a good account of how these people are recruited and how easy it is to get hooked. This is not about going to church on Sunday, these people really do sell their souls and their minds and do exactly as they're told. Strange how all the blame is on parents, no matter what they're like. I wonder how much of it is true? Nobody questions anybody's story. Naive question: who foots the bill for these people? Thanks, ANNA

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» Anna's Questions Posted by: ohb0b
This cult needs some hallucinogens...
Posted by: mgloraine on May 5, 2008 7:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not surprising the author was unimpressed with the proceedings; it takes more than "continental breakfast" to precipitate some true-to-life power-puking and speaking in tongues!

Perhaps Matthew was in the men's room when the congregation passed the peyote platter...

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Politicians who follow Hagee Are a Clear & Present Danger to National Security!
Posted by: Purple Girl on May 5, 2008 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hagee is a Cult leader who is far more dangerous then such sociopaths as Jim Jones. He has no intention of encouraging his followers to commit suicide- He expounds active annilation of the rest of the World, claiming his Members will Be 'Raptured'.
He has Policians who not only accept his doctrine, support it and Praise it and have th ability to bring his agenda to Fruition. both Hillary & Mac reveal their iniation into this 'Armegeddon' theology "100 yr War' "Obliterate Iran with Nukes' . Even Lieberamnn is willing to 'Convert' apparently to be one of the Chosen to survive once they Destroy the rest of mankind. And we thought he was only a traitor Politically.
These 'Public Servants' need to be ferreted out, exposed , and convicted - under th esame conditions as those currently being held in Gitmo (and any other secret Prisons around the World).
this is not merely insulting 'Preaching' this is Treason, and Crimes against Humanity doctines- with the political positons to make it happen.This is far more threatening to our (and the Worlds) Security then any other sect out theres today!
funny how I got kicked off the first time I tried to post this Comment, Concern- Terror! I Am Terrified by these Capable 'Relgious sociopaths' and so should every other human!

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David Sedaris has nothing on Matt Taibbi!
Posted by: Mango on May 5, 2008 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The horrifying truth about religious chicanery aside, this article was the most hilarious piece of investigative journalism I've ever read. And I read.

Embarrassingly, I have quite a bit of experience with religious zaniness (I live in Colorado Springs where acceptance of the nutty faithful is a residency requirement), and Matt is dead-on in his analysis of how people get sucked into such lunacy.

My joy would be complete if the truth wasn't scary as hell.

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Funniest thing I've ever seen on AlterNet
Posted by: war_on_tara on May 5, 2008 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And scary at the same time. A couple of years ago I thought Matt Taibbi was one of the most irritating writers around, but those hilarious descriptive phrases! No matter what the irritating subject matter I'm hooked. (A 12-step program for Taibbi addicts, anyone? - I hate, hate, hate his "Sports Blotter" column in the Boston Phoenix but need the humor fix.)

I'll make a point of reading this book. This demimonde is not completely unfamiliar to me (unfortunately!) and in this case, Taibbi's outsider status, sarcasm and hard work are probably just the right combination.

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Its very simple, really...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on May 5, 2008 9:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is simply the brainwashing indoctrination techniques of cults worldwide being adopted by some branches of the Christian religion.

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Nice work Matt!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on May 5, 2008 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's no substitute for actual personal firsthand experience of something like this - I look forward to your book, which I promise to buy - a modern retelling of "Heart of Darkness"? It will need a river. . . perhaps the Mississippi? The Sacramento? The Hudson?

You know, I considered doing the same thing with the 911 Truth Movement - but they pegged me as an outsider right away (I guess I shouldn't have started out with a discussion of false-flag PR operations and the modern uses of propaganda... gotta act like a true believer.)

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An Athiest Goes Undercover
Posted by: aonghus36 on May 5, 2008 9:38 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, I'm sure that would be objective. But, maybe it'll take people's mind off Rev. Wright.

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Hagee: A Traitor With A Following
Posted by: QQOblivion on May 5, 2008 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article proves that born-agains are good for at least one thing: Laughs.

But much less amusing is the Rev Hagee himself.
Hagee wants to bring about the end of the world, preferably by convincing President John McCain to pre-emptively use NUCLEAR WEAPONS against Iran. (Just which army taking part in the Great Conflagration is on the side of Satan, again?) And with the end of the world, Right-Wing sadistic "patriots" should know that that means the end of the United States of America as well. And since McCain refuses to denounce Hagee, then what does that make John McCain?
Traitor.

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nvannes
Posted by: nvannes on May 5, 2008 10:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ALL religions, based on a biblical, Santa Claus God and on what somebody said or did or saw 3000 years ago, are fucked, exactly no more or less than any other. It's time for atheists to come out of the closet and start driving this point home, before these idiots take over our lives completely. We must not confuse respect for a person's "right to believe" any horseshit they want to with respect for what they say and believe in. When they start talking biblical nonsense about what God wants and expects, as if there IS a god, and they know what He(?) wants, I say let em' have it, with every shred of disbelief and logic and tenacity we can muster. It's time to stop casually walking away from a situation that we know is nonsense but incorrectly assume will fix itself. These people need help.

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» Here here! Posted by: LMNOP
In the country of the blind
Posted by: willymack on May 5, 2008 10:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A one-eyed man is king. I'm trying to imagine myself doing what Matt did without getting tossed out of the sick-in. Visualizing an athletic charlatan screaming at a bunch of cartoon chatacter halfwits and actually getting them to go through silly gyrations and babbling ape-like gibberish is surreal in the extreme. If I were in Matt's place, I'd probably be alternating between hysterical giggling and calling the witch-doctor vulgar and insulting names. It seems we still do at least one thing well here in the good ol' U S of A, and that's producing numbskulls for the rest of the world to laugh at. Too bad these nitwits get to influence national policies, otherwise, the whole thing would be a hoot.

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Truth
Posted by: Dream on May 5, 2008 10:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I noticed in this article the author referred to being anointed with oil several times.
I can't help wondering what would have happened if the group would have been anointed with the anointing oil given by God to Moses? It is common knowledge to those whom have studied Hebrew that a primary component of this oil was cannabis.
The interesting thing about cannabis and other entheogenic substances is they produce states of mind revealing subconscious processes.
Of course we all know to posses the anointing oil as described in the Hebrew Bible would be punishable by years in prison.
Obviously, we as a people are not interested in truth or liberty

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» RE: Truth call me skeptical Posted by: whealeydj
» RE: Truth Posted by: Lauren
McCain and Hagee
Posted by: threecolors on May 5, 2008 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, Obama's pastor points out (correctly) that America has dropped some bombs on innocent people and has some issues in the way minorities are treated. It becomes a HUGE story; many white Americans are scared and upset by the "angry black man," pundits fall all over themselves assesing the damage to Obama's campaign.

McCain SEEKS OUT the political endorsement of a nut job who wants to bring about Armageddon as quickly as possible, and- what? Why aren't clips of Hagee's bizarre pronouncements splashed all over the news? Why is this not damaging to McCain? I guess America has no problem with hate-filled Christian extremism as long as it comes from a white guy.

I hope articles like this keep coming.

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» RE: McCain and Hagee Posted by: mwildfire
» RE: McCain and Hagee Posted by: Ocean tides
no comments on taibbi's unrealistic prejudices?
Posted by: e rice on May 5, 2008 10:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'scattered weather-beaten black folk in secondhand clothing whom I immediately pegged as in-recovery addicts' how? track marks? or just because they were poor blacks? and not one comment (at least when i started my own) about the RACISM implicit in this comment.

middle class...'eating off paper plates and drinking out of gallon jugs of Country Time iced tea' MIDDLE class people eat off paper plates (aside from barbeques)? just what does he think middle class is? iced tea is part of the entire south's culture, but by all means, let's use iced tea as proof of well, what, exactly? that people who drink iced tea are inferior to those who drink white wine?

'frankly obese Hispanic woman' and all the other comments about people's less than hollywood appearance. and let's sneer at people who eat cheeseburgers, because all the superior people know how sinful beef and cheese are.

'the Gap shirt was one of those irritating throwbacks to the Meatballs/Seventies-summer-camp-geek look, ... screamed Friendless Loser', 'that sheepish, ashamed-to-have-a-penis look I had seen so many other young men wearing in church...was a slow-moving hulk of confused, shipwrecked masculinity.' so people who aren't new york city fashionable, and may be just socially ill at ease are automatically contemptible? inferior? sexually ashamed?

no wonder so many people outside of major urban areas resent and reject the so-called intellectuals who criticize their religions. i have nothing but contempt for the men who exploit the poor and ignorant and unwordly, the people damaged by their parents and life, but the sweeping, dismissive, patronizing contempt in this article is no better than that exploitation. and that exploitation is no different than advertising--where consuming replaces god.

and what, exactly, is the difference between the 'demon of philosophy' attitude and the anti-intellectual message the MSM has been drumming into peoples minds for the last several decades?

the comments about the effects of acting a role were good, but i wonder if he will apply them to the nyc people he lives with and around--club goers, wall street types, anyone who joins a group that demands any level of conformity.

this book isn't exacly breaking new ground, and taibbi doesn't seem to have the sort of training or experience that would contribute understanding or depth or worthwhile analysis. but, since the author works for 'rolling stone' i'm sure it will sell very well. in certain circles.

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» No Posted by: LMNOP
» Don't hate the playa..... Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Yes Posted by: Lauren
thank you both
Posted by: e rice on May 5, 2008 10:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for pointing this out.

and not much difference from advertising.

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» Remember what Bill Hicks said... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
This guys shure does a job on others!
Posted by: The Big Raven on May 5, 2008 10:49 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As soon as this fat assed pig seen some black folks of course he "peggs" them for addicts.
This peice really needs to be done but not by an over opionated fat old whiteman.
When are people gonna start really addmitting that this god forsaken country is pure racist????????
Peace is for everyone

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Save the planet, rapturize Hagee
Posted by: meetmeineleusis on May 5, 2008 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since he's in such a hurry to leave earth, why don't we help him along? We can send him to heaven without destroying the planet...it's fairly cheap to do too.

9mm rapture tickets are only $5 a box.

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What cracks me up about this is
Posted by: observing on May 5, 2008 11:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the entirely egomaniacal notion that anyone can "hurry up God." If there should be a god, why would anyone think it's in any hurry to do anything?

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» So true.... Posted by: Fencerider
and I suppose I should mention
Posted by: meetmeineleusis on May 5, 2008 11:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the religious, trying to "hurry" God's plans is utter blasphemy.

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"Starve. I don't care. Starve."
Posted by: fanny666 on May 5, 2008 11:35 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Starve. I don't care. Starve."

How does this compare to Wright?

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» What I don't get... Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: What I don't get... Posted by: fanny666
» RE: What I don't get... Posted by: Lauren
Elmer Gantry
Posted by: logos7 on May 5, 2008 12:31 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
was much better than this. I could not read all of it. The writer seems to be getting his jollies by demeaning all of the participants. How small!

Although I think that Hagee's ministry is a crock, there is no need to demean the searchers of the dream. They might find it. The writers of "The Divine Comedy", "Paradise Lost", "Ghost" and "Quantum Leap" found the dream but they could never tell the story as it really is because most of us wouldn't have a clue.

What is being passed off as Christianity in this country, and by its missionaries, has nothing to do with the Christianity established by Jesus. Don't take my word for it, ask Him. Or ask Melchizadek or Babiji.

There is a passage in the 11th chapter of Matthew where Jesus states that this wisdom has been hidden from the wise and prudent and revealed to the simple.

So, wise man, you can't get it. You may sell a book revealing that you found out that Hagee is selling a bill of goods. There are many people who have found out that most of what you see on television is just another way to make money. By any means possible. It's is the American way. Those other entertainers are doing it.
Now go check out Mr. Hinn. His arrogance is amazing.

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Otto
Posted by: otto on May 5, 2008 12:40 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reading this, I had the feeling I get while listening to one group I disagree with putting down another group I disagree with...as a professed Christian, I'm ashamed to admit it. But I really enjoyed the article and agree with most of it. Matt writes so well, I thought I was following Holden Caulfield in Salinger's "Catcher In the Rye" (another great book condemned by people like Hagee as they do tdhe Potter books!) When people have similar ideals and emphasize the same principles I do, I sort of see them (Sorry, Matt, you won't like this!) as "anonymous Christians" - people who don't realize how close they are to what Jesus taught. I expect them to hear Jesus say some day, "Surprise! I was hungry and you fed me.."etc. Anyway, I really liked the article.

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I must agree with the pastor on one point
Posted by: amazer on May 5, 2008 1:55 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After reading this thoroughly amusing account, I thought that there must be at least one point on which I could agree with this church's theology. Being a lapsed Jew and avowed athiest, this was not easy, but I think I finally found common ground: We both agree that anal fissures suck.

Unfortunately, I'm at a loss about how to build more bridges with these wackos. But if there is a rapture, they'll certainly have the last laugh. I personally believe that visits from UFOs in past years have kindled humankind's belief in a big man in the sky god.

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» I'm praying for the Rapture... Posted by: Tim Brown
...and he beat me with his flippers...
Posted by: Tim Brown on May 5, 2008 2:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Matt Taibbi is one of the best political writers in America today. He does his homework, his opinions are dead-on and his use of absurdity to make a point would make Gonzo proud. Kudos, Matt.

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It Must Be Rough...
Posted by: grumble-bum on May 5, 2008 4:13 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...To go through life with a permanent sneer.

I find Tiabbi to be a very funny writer in many ways. Then I usually feel kinda dirty, afterwards.

Not that his observations about politics or religion aren't often very close to the target, but in order to really nail a bullseye he's going to have to work on his major blind spot.

Empathy. Tiabbi has a serious empathy deficit. A truly great observer must have empathy for even those he sets out to skewer. The reader shouldn't be forced to find it between the lines. Nor should he have to wade through scads of shallow, dismissive details about the lack of education, fashion sense, or physical attractiveness of the people being so wickedly & mercilessly described, in order to get to the crux of the issue. It took Tiabbi 2/3 of his weekend (& about half of his excerpt) to realize & comment on the obvious strain of generic self-help bullshit that goes on in some modern religious settings. That's a lot of time spent rather pointlessly (if expertly) mocking completely innocent people, just to figure out something that's fairly glaring, even to an outside observer.

A suggestion to the author for his next undercover stunt- Why not try & infiltrate Dr. Phil? There you have a somewhat dim overweight fellow, with an accent, spouting one-size-fits-all "answers", all rolled into one! An easy target!

What I'm getting at here is that, legitimately funny bits aside (flippers!), Tiabbi's approach ultimately turns against him. By turning off his empathy for his subjects (be they confused & lonely people at a religious rally, or Presidential hopefuls), his commentary is often rendered flat & meaningless.

The irony is this: By focusing his ultimately contemptuous piece about a freaky sub-sect of Christianity on the feel-good, anti-thought aspects & neglecting the real human aspect, he merely serves up a feel-good, anti-thought morsel for the hard-core Atheist contingent to chortle over.

Maybe when he realizes the absurdities of his own existence, & starts taking aim a little closer to home, he will finally hit the target.

Until then, I guess I'll keep reading, laughing a bit, & feeling like puking later.

Paper bag, anyone?

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» You Are Ridiculous. Seriously. Posted by: grumble-bum
» Just remember.... Posted by: Fencerider
» That's the truth, IMHA Posted by: binkey
» RE: It Must Be Rough... Posted by: Lauren
Credibility
Posted by: Noah_Scape on May 5, 2008 4:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Preachers have credibility.
Doctors have credibility.

Neither of them, collectively, deserve it, but some people still give it to them willingly.

What comes out of their mouths is farce, based on a false doctrine that happens to make them money, and it is immediately gratifying to them when their audiences suck it all in so eagerly.

Nothing less that your entire life is at stake when you accept their words without question. In fact, unless you outright reject their doctrines, you are set to lose the two most important things a person has: health and sanity.

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innacurate and biased article
Posted by: piccolina007 on May 5, 2008 5:09 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is incredible to see the extent to which someone will go to try to prove their own point of view. Why did Matt have to lie about his personal life? who would have known him? I dare him to go back, tell his real life story, and receive real healing.. He did not do his research very well, if you do not confess your sin, if you do not repent, you WILL NOT receive healing and deliverance. He can go to 1,000 encounters and lie to the attendees, even to the pastor and coaches, but he cannot lie to God. Or did he think that by saying a bogus circus clown story he was going to receive it? It is like saying that bowling is a stupid game for retards, when the only time you have played it was using a golf ball. YOU DID NOT PLAY THE GAME RIGHT my friend, so the outcome of your "experiment" was biased and unreliable.
I come from a family that values learning and academia, I have studied abroad in Paris and London, I speak four languages and I do not consider myself and ignorant believe-it-all kind of person. I too went to the encounter not really knowing what to expect, not really believing, but, I did open myself up, and gave it a real chance. I humbled myself to receive whatever that was available for me. I was honest about my childhood experiences, that granted, were not as heavy as those of my coach or fellow group members (no sexual or physical abuse) but I bare my true self in front of the group. Yes, maybe Pastor Phillip's style might not appeal to all, but he was sincere in everything he preached and transmitted a clear message. When Sunday arrived, I received a totally unexpected gift, I was delivered! I received the gift of tongues and was completely healed of depression. COMPLETELY. I have become a different, better person. My life changed 360 degrees. LIKE THE AUTHOR, I DID NOT INITIALLY BELIEVED, BUT UNLIKE THE AUTHOR, I HUMBLED MYSELF AND ACCEPTED ANY GIFT THAT JESUS HAD FOR ME THAT DAY.
Anyone who reads this and is not happy or satisfied with the way his/her life is going, I encourage them to attend. YOU DONT BASE YOUR MOVIE THEATER ATTENDANCE 100% ON THE CRITICS DO YOU? SAME THING HERE, GO AND SEE FOR YOURSELF, BUT BE HONEST, IF THERE IS A FREE GIFT OF DELIVERANCE AND HEALING FOR YOU OUT THERE, WOULDNT YOU LIKE TO RECEIVE IT? 48 HOURS IS ALL IT TAKES,AND YOU COULD GO BACK HOME IN THAT BUS, RICHER THAN YOU COULD EVER IMAGINE YOU COULD BE. I DID. :)

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» well, if you liked that... Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: I don't know what you say.... Posted by: piccolina007
» 360 Degrees? Posted by: tnrider
These cult-like religious groups
Posted by: jackyD on May 5, 2008 6:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
prey on weak-minded people who can't find the strength to take a good hard look at themselves and talk with family or friends or get professional counseling to help find logical solutions to their problems. These types tend to blame their problems on somebody or something other than themselves. They want to be led by the nose, told God is a cure-all for all that ails them. Their minds are ripe for a takeover. Believe me, I've known my share. Once, out of curiosity, I even attended a singles born-again type meeting with my neighbor. Oh, those testimonials! It was all a jaw-dropping, pathetic and rather amusing experience. One I would not want to repeat.

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Best laugh in awhile
Posted by: perkywa on May 5, 2008 6:43 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks Matt...I haven't laughed that hard for some time. This IS mainstream "Christianity" at its best/worse. Unfortunately (and quite frighteningly) all too many Americans swallow this tripe every weekend. Start a conversation at random about Islam with ANY American Christian and watch the indoctrinated propaganda flow...pure hate.

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» Really? "ANY"? Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: a handful? Posted by: Dboy
» This is BS: He said, she said.... Posted by: Fencerider
» Definitely would want to Posted by: binkey
Thank you Mr. Taibbi
Posted by: dogdakota1999 on May 5, 2008 7:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since I haved lived in Texas all my life, I see the christian danger on society all too very frequently. Unless I move to location where an Atheist does not have to worry about being prosecuted, there is no way I can come out as an Atheist. If I came out, I'd lose my 6-figure job and possibly put in jail. A "public" Atheist in my area of Texas was recently given a 20-year sentence by a local christian prosecutor and a christian judge when one of the buildings on his business burned down. Charged with arson even when several witnesses stated it was clearly accident. His Athestism was even mentioned in the trial. Too much more detail to state here. These christians are extremely dangerous - especially when they are in a position of power. THANK YOU again for pointing out how crazy these nuts are.

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» RE: your horror in Texas Posted by: davidg
» RE: Thank you Mr. Taibbi Posted by: DaBear
» Horrible Posted by: binkey
» RE: Thank you Mr. Taibbi Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Thank you Mr. Taibbi Posted by: crashgrab
I stayed at a "Children of God" commune when I was hitching around the country
Posted by: UnEasyOne on May 5, 2008 7:53 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
about 35 years ago.

Scared hell out of me.

Had gotten a ride with a guy who knew some people and we (I was with a girl) needed a place to crash for the night. The driver said they would feed us and give us a place to sleep. Cool with me - so we went.

When we got there, the "love bombing" began immediately. Was new to me - really powerful. I have heard followers of these cults described as "glassy-eyed" but I wouldn't have said that. They were relentlessly cheerful and seemed pretty happy - at first.

They fed us some sandwiches (the plastic wrapped microwavable kind) which they microwaved. I commented on the (top of the line for what they were) quality of the sandwiches and was told that they were donated by businesses in the small town nearby.

I was commenting about how surprising it was that smalltown businessmen would donate so heavily (they said all their food was donated) to a bunch of longhairs. They replied:

"Yeah, they are so stupid. We call it 'spoiling Satan.' Those hicks are so stupid all you have to do is wave a bible in their face and they'll give you anything."

They then explained that the outside world was so evil that any lie was justified - since they were in service to the lord. 35 years later, I still remember the contempt they had for their benefactors - and that they made no effort to conceal it from an outsider like myself. They were treating me like an insider - and I was afraid I was going to have a hard time escaping.

In fact, it wasn't hard at all. They told us we'd have to be separated into same-sex dorms and the girl I was with wasn't goin for it. We slept outside - and neither of us even wanted to go back inside for breakfast in the morning. Turning down a free meal wasn't exactly something I made a habit of when I was on the road. That time was an exception.

These are a different flavor of nut - but no less nutty - or dangerous.

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Looks like...
Posted by: finch on May 5, 2008 9:33 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It looks like people on this site still havn't figured out that continually attacking religion is the way to losing elections.

Wonder why the Republicans have a monopoly on faith? This is it. Thank you AlterNeters for giving the 'right' yet another round of ammunition!

If you hate religion, keep it to yourself. Maybe once the 'left' can shed the reputation of being a bastion of religion-hating atheists we can get somewhere. There isn't anything wrong with being an atheist (at least in my opinion), but when you spew vitriolic speech anywhere, you are doing yourself and "atheism" (I recognize that there isn't one form, just saying, in general) a real disservice.

What these "fundamentalist", or more accurately, extremists, are saying and doing is despicable. But so is calling the billions of human beings on this planet who do follow religion idiots, fools, and worse. You are doing the exact same thing. You aren't doing anyone any favors by attacking the majority of humans on this planet. You aren't doing yourself any favors either by coming off as a jerk online.

Yes, Hagee and his church is disgusting. Yes, it is despicable, yes, it goes beyond reason. But please, keep from offending the majority of people on this planet. It gets old fast, and it is no wonder that people with less restraint (aka those who follow Hagee and people like him) end up hating you too.

Hate reciprocates hate. Remember that before you speak.

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» RE: Looks like... Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Looks like... Posted by: finch
» Final word... Posted by: finch
» so true Posted by: e rice
» I disagree Posted by: LMNOP
» e rice can sure dish it out Posted by: binkey
» I disagree Posted by: LMNOP
» Majority.... Posted by: Fencerider
interesting point
Posted by: e rice on May 5, 2008 11:13 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but, as one other person commented, if he had a reason for that comment, other than racism, it should have been parenthetically included.

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How much did this circus cost?
Posted by: jimmyaj on May 5, 2008 11:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was the food any good?

Doesn't the Bible say something about being wary of false prophets? Or is it profits...

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Freaking Hilarious Article!
Posted by: 2dogarage on May 5, 2008 11:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks so much to the author, this article had me laughing so hard I cried!

Waiting for the movie...

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» RE: Freaking Hilarious Article! Posted by: thinks4herself2008
The demon of journalistic imprecision...
Posted by: mysterium_tremendum on May 6, 2008 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Really entertaining piece. Unfortunately Matt did not do his homework well enough to acquire the appropriate terminology for his subject. What he is describing is not "evangelicalism" (or "American evangelicalism", or "Southern evangelicalism", etc.). What he is describing is a type of "Pentecostalism." Pentecostalism is usually "evangelical". The term "Evangelicalism", however, encompasses a very broad spectrum of communities, of which "Pentecostalism" is very much a fringe group.

Speaking as an graduate student in theology, I can say that I have never seen a well-respected evangelical theologian affirm Hagee's theology or his practice. On the contrary, if anything he is chastised for his irresponsibility. Moreover, in almost 30 years of experience within the evangelical church, visiting evangelical churches of all kinds, I have not once seen anything remotely close to the incident described here. And yet more than once, Matt points to this incident, and this group as being quintessentially "evangelical"?

Quite frankly, I think what we have here is either irresponsible or deceptive journalism. He wants to expose the dangers of religion and the way that "evangelicals" so naively follow their pastors in their to erroneous pastures, demonizing certain things along the way. But ironically enough, Matt is committing the same sin he is trying to exorcise from Hagee and his ilk. How many sheep, I wonder, will read this misinformed and imprecise specimen evangelical demonization and naively swallow it too, deepening their sweeping resentment for all "evangelicals" in the process?

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» RE: The demon of hypocrisy Posted by: munchkinpup
A Rolling Stone Tradition
Posted by: Elmo409 on May 6, 2008 7:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was it Tim Cahill who got himself picked up by the Children of God 35 years ago? I know I read that in Rolling Stone. Except when it came his turn to speak in tongues he went with the line from ? and the Mysterians -- "Nah na na na Nah na na na NAH na na na na Nah na na Naaah"

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Obama and his wife belong to a cult with the UCC
Posted by: arclight7 on May 6, 2008 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that is very similar to what's being described here. Both Barack and Michelle should be brought up on child abuse charges for subjecting their two daughters to this madness.

Oprah Winfrey also belong to the Trinity United cult, but left in 1995. The Obamas chose to say on.

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» OK Karl Rove.... Posted by: Fencerider
» You forgot to mention the anal probes Posted by: hurricane hugo
the two sides of this question
Posted by: e rice on May 6, 2008 1:18 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
one side: god exists-he does he does he does. and anyone who says differently, is wrong.

the other side: god doesn't exist- he doesn't he doesn't he doesn't. and anyone who says differently, is wrong.

zealots, all.

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funky journalism
Posted by: heliana on May 6, 2008 6:21 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As always from Matt Taibbi.

I suppose your work at exile.ru where sides were to be taken, drugs to be discusses, and women to be put down has been instrumental in sharpening your observational skills and your ability to exploit situations.

As usual, you're taking on the ones that can't defend themselves: the ones that aren't so educated, so cynical, and so articulate.

great job!
keep up the good work!
if you can't have a devushka to make fun of you had to find yourself someone else.

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» Victim card again Posted by: frantaylor
A Tip for talking with Rapture-Ready Christians
Posted by: COinms on May 6, 2008 8:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article. I live in Mississippi, which has it's share of fanatical fundamentalists. I am also a Christian, but not according to most of them; suffice it to say my 'brand' xtianity followed Arius instead of Athanasius (but I'm not a JW).

Following is a little bit of biblical discussion that usually throws them for a loop and makes you look smart. Feel free to use as you will. If you are someone who doesn't believe, or perhaps someone of Jewish persuasion who sees this differently, I apologize. This is only for those who wish to engage in religious dialogue with an evangelical.

If you are talking with a fundamentalist/evangelical, and the subject of the '7 Year Tribulation'(a key part of the 'Rapture' scenario) comes up, ask them what biblical precedent there is for taking that 7 years, one week, away from the Daniel 9:27 prophecy. Tell them that it is a time prophecy that refers to Jesus' work and if it is moved out of it's place, it destroys all other time prophecy in the whole entire Bible. That should give them pause if they believe in time prophecy, which they do, because that's where they get this week to move to some unknown point in the future.

Tell there is no justification for doing that, and that since their whole theology is built on moving around that 7 years like a chess piece in time, their whole premise is flawed. Ask them to cite another example of God delaying a time prophecy (they can't do it). The 490 (weeks of) years was all fulfilled in the past.

This will probably slow them down a little until they can run to their preacher and find out what he says about it. He'll probably cite some example like Jacob having to wait so long for his wife, or Israel waiting to go into the promised land; but these are not TIME prophecies.

Good luck and goodnight!

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Constantine's Sword
Posted by: whealeydj on May 7, 2008 6:22 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ewas a very interesting film I recently saw about the connection between militarism/imperialism and Christianity and anti-Semitism and Christianity, and particularly Catholicism. I highly recommend it and I am going to track down the book at my library.

ore The article was a little long but the expose is interesting. However, the author had to make up a ludicrous caricature of pain in his life. He mocks the jock but apparently had no real pain in his life that he could legitimately identify with. Based on this article he come across as compassionless atheist and proud of it. We progressives should look at ourselves and why we have to mock those with mass appeal; is it our own attitude that makes us a small minority in this country.

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xtiml
Posted by: xtiml on May 7, 2008 11:05 PM   
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I been to a number of evangeleical churches at one time anfd i never could like it. it seemed a bit nutrty to ,me and then thinking if this is it soemthing is terribly wrong. but the revivals are all set up to get you into their territory. the mood and music and the ploys are hard to nuetralize and i never quite could get to the point of going to one and being bnon affected. after awhile I thought it a useless goal and gave it up and never went to another and never will .MY wife is a assemblies of god preachers daughter.

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How kooks like Rev. John Hagee get traction is beyond me
Posted by: nikolai on May 8, 2008 12:14 PM   
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How can idiots like Rev. John Hagee survive, and in fact, THRIVE in America today preaching their hateful message that goes against everything America stands for?

Answer: because there are a LOT of folks who are about one hair away from being card carrying neo-nazi-clansmen who masquerade as as god-fearing, church going "Christians."

They ARE in the minority however, even if they call themselves the "Moral Majority", and must be rejected and in fact stamped out, as they are bigots, plain and simple, and practice the hatred and intolerance they claim that the followers of Islam practice. The "American Taliban" is what they are and is how they should be referred to by everyone including the media. Better yet, the media should give them NO coverage, as they are the antithesis of everything that is right and good about America.

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A clear head and a sense of humor
Posted by: Buzz Windrip on May 9, 2008 9:22 AM   
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Thank you, Matt.

You help keep my political reading from being a complete buzz-kill.

Boom shaka laka.

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at least we can see what is going on here
Posted by: alms for iraq on May 9, 2008 10:18 PM   
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I admit this article is trashy and snide, and gives us atheists and progressives a bad name. But at least it shows us what attract millions of "ordinary Americans" to the whole born-again Christian movement. People are looking for answers to their problems, and blaming sin and demons, anointing someone's forehead and making them act like an idiot and all the other borderline brainwashing, helps you forget to worry about problems and just go about your day. It helps you to forget to question the hypocrisy and inequity of our government and the larger social issues that are causing so many problems. The people reading this article laugh because we do not forget such things, but remain unhappy because we feel powerless. So we nourish our contempt of the people who let themselves be brainwashed.

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Brilliant.
Posted by: cbmtrx on May 10, 2008 12:11 PM   
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From one enlightened humanist to another: You deserve the f***ing Pulitzer Prize for that, if not a lifetime supply of intelligent and insightful non-fiction books to dilute any lasting effects of your Jesus transfusion.

Well done, Matt, and I hope your normal is...anything but.

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A step up
Posted by: Penros on May 10, 2008 1:13 PM   
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The road to enlightenment is long and takes many lives to accomplish.

I laughed at the clown. Love Matt's sense of humor. Read him every chance I get.

But who is he to say whose first step toward God is invalid? Do all of you atheists believe that you created this world all by yourselves? Individually? Or by committee? If so I would like to have a serious talk with that committee. Do you believe you know all about the purpose of life? I think when you finally find out, your arrogance will tone down a tad.

In the meantime, let us pray: "Our father who art a drunken clown, do not hit us with thy shoes nor thy fins."

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Nothing new
Posted by: Democritus on May 11, 2008 4:25 PM   
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Most of us are not too young to remember Billy Sunday, and his "sliding" for the saved. There has always been a strong evangelistic streak in the American people, and John Hagee takes advantage of this. It probably has much to do with a revulsion toward the materialistic concerns of most Americans, and a yearning for something simpler and more authentic. Unfortunately, as Taibbi points out, this yearning has been turned into a circus. Hagee has tapped into a well of spiritualism and used it to his advantage. In a just world he would be tarred and feathered, and run out of town on a rail.

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Genius!
Posted by: peaceofmind on May 12, 2008 10:19 AM   
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I don't know who needs the ass kicking more: The manipulative Fortenberry types or the "constantly ready to break out weeping like menopausal housewives" men.

How otherwise "normal" and "functining" adults voluntarily submit to this kind of mind rape on a weekly basis without fighting back just astounds me.

What was that line from Fight Club? "We're a generation of men raised by women."

Don't mean to sound sexist, but at some point, you gotta grow a sack in this life.

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