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Why You Shouldn't Spend that 'Stimulus' Check

By Max Keiser, Huffington Post. Posted May 1, 2008.


If we refused to cash our checks, the value of the dollars in our pockets would go up by more than the face value of the stimulus refund.

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I'll explain two reasons why you should not spend your economic stimulus check: the first applies to people who work regular jobs for wages, the second applies to people who work in investment banks for bonuses.

If you work for wages (or live on a pension), consider this: if every American said, "No thank you" to Bush's stimulus check and refused to cash them, the value of the dollars in your pocket right now, in terms of their purchasing power would go up by a factor greater than the face value ($600) of the stimulus check. In other words, if you didn't spend these checks, you'd be the richer for it.

The reason being that America does not have a hard-money economy, it's a debt-based fiat currency economy. All the money in circulation in America has been borrowed and then re-lent. So borrowing more money ($168 billion for the stimulus package) and then re-lending it to Americans, as Bush is doing, only increases the debt load and debases the value of the currency outstanding (against a backdrop of stagnant wages and minuscule interest rates for savers).

If an American was planning to spend $40K this year on food, clothing, shelter, health and various other expenses and they were hoping to defray some of that cost thanks to Bush's stimulus check understand that by simply adding another $168 billion of debt (the cost of the stimulus package) on top of America's current multi-trillion debt load will continue the Bush-Paulson-Benanke trend of debasing the purchasing power of your money and, therefore, raise the price of goods and services by more than the $600 'gift' (without a commensurate rise in wages or increase in interest paid on savings).

This is why America's debt problems won't go away. Every dollar spent adds debt and spawns more fiat currency issuance which has the effect of decreasing the purchasing power of the U.S. dollars in your pocket. Bush tries to make up the difference by borrowing even more; borrowing 340 million a day to fund the war and close to 3 billion a day to cover U.S. operating expenses, not to mention Wall Street borrowing over $30 billion a day to keep their Ponzi scheme going. All this borrowing keeps alive the vicious financial spiral trending lower towards permanent currency debasement and possible sovereignty loss.

Now, if you work in investment banking, the opposite is true. Bigger money supply growth means bigger fees and bonuses. You may lose more than $600 in purchasing power with that $600 stimulus check, but the fees and bonuses you make processing all that debt (read: dollars) is greater still. In other words, the more the government increases the debt load (money supply), the more you make -- even discounting for the lost purchasing power caused by the inflationary impact of higher money supply growth.

But listen bankers, resist the temptation to spend your stimulus check even though by doing so you are increasing America's indebtedness and, therefore, your fees and bonuses.

In a year or so, after 99.999% of America has cashed their stimulus check, any checks that have not been cashed will accrue value as collector's items.

As such, the value of these checks as un-cashed mementos of the failed Bush presidency should appreciate at the inflation rate plus a collector's item premium rate for years to come.

As a matter of fact, an enterprising soul might make a pretty penny by setting up a website to buy people's un-cashed stimulus checks at the face value plus a small premium. Five to six years from now, you might be able to re-auction and sell these un -cashed checks on eBay for double or triple the price you paid to Asian and European collectors buying these up like visitors to the Berlin Wall who buy chunks of concrete left over after the collapse of East Berlin.


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Max Keiser has been involved with markets and finance for 25 years. He started his career as a stock broker on Wall Street after graduating from NYU. He is the creator of the Hollywood Stock Exchange (that operates via his patented Virtual Specialist technology).

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Is this the whole article?
Posted by: Erik1968 on May 1, 2008 12:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can someone remind the millionaires at the Huffington Post that the rest of us don't have any money in our pockets? The average American has over $10,000 in credit card debt. AVERAGE. Inflation is bad for rich people, and good for people in debt. Real inflation that is, specifically wage inflation.

America needs a raise! If local, state, and federal governments doubled all public salaries we'd ALL be better off! And before you start worrying about seniors, we can pass another law to strengthen COLA!

We CAN spend and inflate our way out of this mess! But it has to be DEMAND side inflation!

Too bad it will never ever ever happen.

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» RE: Is this the whole article? Posted by: Knot_Rich
» This is satire, right? Posted by: Smackback
Hard to Believe
Posted by: When In Doubt on May 1, 2008 3:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Cost of Living the government bases Social Security on DOES NOT include food and gasoline.
Two of the major costs of living for seniors.
Single seniors usually can't take advantage of "sales" at the supermarket.

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» RE: Cost of Living is a Deliberately BS Benchmark Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
what stimulus check? &%#@!
Posted by: valeriecole on May 1, 2008 4:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a laid off Single, female, middle aged engineering designer, I've had to donate Plasma for gas money- I was so thrilled to hear about this stimulus package for about a minute....then, I learned that I would not qualify. I am financially, spiritually, and
mentally exhausted. Here is a case of "those who need it the most"- don't get it. I don't know what my recourse will be, living day to day-gallon to gallon of gas & missing many meals & many days in a row. I can't just go sit down and die, but, feel it's the only thing left. I'm thinking that if enough of us baby-boomers in my situation...might just be
Monkey pants' answer to his Social Security
problems.

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» RE: what stimulus? Double-&%#@! Posted by: editnetwork
» RE: what stimulus check? &%#@! Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: what stimulus check? &%#@! Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
» RE: what stimulus check? &%#@! Posted by: jroth420
Pitiful, just pitiful
Posted by: Sushi on May 1, 2008 4:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would love to see baby-boy-bush start with an empty pocket and a stack of bills and see how far $600 would go.

I'm putting mine towards my $8,000 dental bill from two years ago. I'm accruing $48/month in interest on that debt alone.

Sushi

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» RE: Pitiful, just pitiful Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: Pitiful, just pitiful Posted by: djcrow22
Did spend part on a new US made microwave- rest to Debt
Posted by: Purple Girl on May 1, 2008 5:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Spend the Check- are they kidding- we can't afford to spend- we are up to our collective assses in debt, not becasue we are conspicuous consumers- but becaseu we've ahd to use Credit cards just to get by. they know it because they it was Planned that way by the 'Money Czars"-Pay them less, increase the cost of necessary commodities and charge outrageous interest rates. They've done the same this to the Nations bank account!This has bee a Well Orchastraed venture to bring down the Strongest Economy and the Freest people in the world so they could easily place US (and our descendants) on the Global Auction Block as a Cheap commodity (get what the term 'Futures' actually means). Add to that the Social issues they have taken on- Birth control vs Abstenence Education- these are Breeding Programs to assure the future Product!
tehre are some sick Twisted Greedy vile humans willing to sell off their fellow man as if we were live stock- have you seen how they treat livestock? This doctrine has infiltrated and contaminated every aspect of life- not just human but also Planetary. they don't give a sh*t becaue they are making money hand over fist now- control every aspect of life- and they adhere to the belief the Rapture will come and take them away once their Self fulling Prophecies come to Fruititon. I fit takes awhile their system will continue to Feed them- while the rest of Us are merely objects to be Used. When all logical explanation fail to answer a question the Absurd/ The Unthinkable must be considered!

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» It's called Posted by: zhine
Im doubting
Posted by: wittler youth on May 1, 2008 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those checks will have any collector vaule!..just like 1920s reich marks or 1970s win buttons..hey if people need x-tra cash they can sell there 1990s collectable beanie babys..lol..better yet sell there y2k generaters..or those bags of rice there hordeing..or just do it the old fashoined way..sell your ass!..i think jerry springers check to a hooker ment more than bush's checks to us.

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I lose respect for the Huffington Post
Posted by: Gravitas on May 1, 2008 6:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
every time I read another one of their articles!!! I think this is just flat out and out right insensitive! You can not expect the average American who is deeply in debt and worried about job loss to not cash their check. People have every right to worry about their own survival. And they have every right to NOT feel guilty for doing so. Besides, not cashing the check would have minimal impact compared to reducing a person's own personal debt or having at least a little bit of cushion in the bank. (Mine is going in Shore Bank in Chicago, which is a socially conscious bank that is helping families affected by the sup prime crisis and does other great things for the community as well!) Don't feel guilty about cashing your checks, remember it is the richest among us who have been given the most tax cuts. Think they feel guilty???

These liberal elitists are hurting the cause. From the preaching we should ONLY eat locally grown, organic, vegan foods, to condemning Myspace, to telling us we shouldn't cash our rebate checks, they have no idea of the reality of the average person. The Huffington Post should stick to fat bashing which at least has cheap and mindless popular appeal.(Sarcasim!) Martyrdom is not a good message for those ALREADY suffering!!!

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mdubd
Posted by: mwd on May 1, 2008 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the cat is out of the bag. your premise "if every american would not spend their check..." reminds me of my undergraduate econ TA who said, "assuming all things were equal..."

my hand would pop up and I'd say, "but all things aren't equal so why bother..."

maybe you should write an article about what americans should spend their money on, maybe green initiatives or something other than a bunch of crap from china...

because telling the eight people who will read alternet this week not to spend their checks is just a waste of time.

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When Weavil Infested Rice is All One Can Afford . . .
Posted by: snax on May 1, 2008 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I understand the point of the article, it is suggesting the equivalent of not shopping at Wal-Mart. The only problem is: When Wal-Mart is the only place one can afford to shop, the only other option is go without.

I think most educated people understand that the stimulus checks aren't going to fix anything. They are a desperate effort by the Bush administration to put off the impending financial collapse we now face, but if you truly need it when somebody hands you $300, $600, $2100 or more with no questions asked or obligation to repay, YOU TAKE THE MONEY!

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» Hey, Weevils are Protein! Posted by: Smackback
This article is really airy fairy to the max
Posted by: observing on May 1, 2008 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm hearing people discuss what to do with the stimulous check. 1. pay down credit card, 2. buy medications, 3. pay light/heat bill, 4. Get new jeans for growing kids. I've yet to hear someone say spend it on vacation or get something special. The writer needs a reality check more than a stimulous check.

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Spend that check on US produced goods and services
Posted by: Joni50 on May 1, 2008 8:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if at all possible. Otherwise we're just sending another boatload of money overseas.

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The Huffington bubble.
Posted by: HughScott on May 1, 2008 8:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why do I think Ariana and the other so-called progressives on her Santa Monica-based blog all live in nearby Beverly Hills? Talk about out of touch with reality!

My stimulus payment is going where it deserves -- in my savings account for a rainy day.

Maybe that's what wrong with the Huffington Post "progressives." It doesn't rain enough in Southern California when they go shopping on Rodeo Drive.

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» Great Post!!! Posted by: Gravitas
» DIRECT HIT CAP'N! Posted by: kelethian
I will spend mine
Posted by: colinmeister on May 1, 2008 8:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This summer, while I am on holiday in the UK. The dollar is worth so little these days, that I will need the extra 1200 to pay for my beer and fish 'n chips.

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» You get a vacation???? Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: You get a vacation???? Posted by: peacefullaim
Bobby Decker AKA THE ARTIST FORMERLY KNOWN AS THE PURPLERAIN MAN
Posted by: Bobby Decker on May 1, 2008 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BEING THE ALL SEEING ALL KNOWING PROPHIT OF COMEDY !.....MAYBE ITS JUST ME !?.....AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO EVER FANTASIZED OF MAXING OUT ALL CREDIT SOURCES....THEN PULLING A DB COOPER ON THEIR ASS!..........RUN NAKED AS BAMBI INTO THE WOODS SOMEWERE TO A UNIBOMBER SHACK.....{"SORRY FOLKS THE YUPPIES ALLREADY
DID A HOSTLE TAKEOVER OF MONTANNA"}....IVE HEARD ITS STILL CHEAP IN THE DAKOTTAS THOUGH !

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What stimulus? The IRS keeps ours ...
Posted by: mollymorph on May 1, 2008 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Due to a major misunderstanding about penalties for cashing in a 401(k) 8 years ago, I've been whittling away at a tax bill with outrageous interest and occasional penalties by a monthly installment plan with the IRS. My husband is permanently disabled and I make well under $40K a year after stepping (falling?) off the corporate merry-go-round a few years ago with my own illness.

So the IRS is happy to not only keep my tax return this year, but our "stimulus checks" as well.

I know I'm not the only one on an IRS installment plan ... there are lots and lots of us who cringe every time we hear the topic of economic stimulus ... but hey, at least this takes away a chunk of the principle. Since Social Security wants me to work until I'm 70, maybe I'll have it all repaid by then. Only 13 years to go! Yay!

P.S. They tell me I can appeal the penalties after I pay the entire amount due, but I'd have to have a solid argument and documents to support my position. Other than that, the folks at the IRS are really nice to talk to these days, even if they do want me to call them Mr. or Mrs. or Miss ...

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» To Mollymorph Posted by: asilsfable
Ignorance abounds...
Posted by: teletwist on May 1, 2008 9:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush gets to play scapegoat a lot. And he is an easy target. But why is it that everyone seems to forget that Congress is a major player in the state of things, perhaps even more so than Bush?

Economic stimulus packages come from Congress, not the President. Yes, he championed it. Yes, most people will pin it on him if the economy gets any worse. But our system of government is designed with checks in place. He might be the most powerful single person in the world at the moment, but Congress has even more power than he if you think of them as a single entity.

Last I checked Congress' approval rating was around 22%. Bush hovers between 28% and 32%. If you want an eye-opening look into what our tax dollars are paying for - look at the minutes of our elected House of Representatives.

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The limousine liberals strike again
Posted by: meetmeineleusis on May 1, 2008 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Completely out of touch with reality. It's no wonder middle america and working people keep voting against their best interests (for republicans).

The most prominent representatives of liberalism and progressivism are latte sipping morons.


What will they spend their stimulus checks on, if they spend them?

$12 cups of fair trade coffee?

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Give to the Neo-Con's enemies
Posted by: truthteller on May 1, 2008 10:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I plan on dividing the proceeds of my Bush check between candidates and causes opposed to the Bush/Neo-Con agenda. I can afford to do that, I realize that many cannot. Might I suggest that many make at least a token contribution to the progressive candidate of your choice. A few suggestions:

Dennis Kucinich's Congressional re-election campaign

Cindy Sheehan's Congressional campaign to unseat Speaker Pelosi

Green Party Presidential candidate Cynthia McKinney

Any cause that supports the environment, population reduction, social or economic justice, civil rights and civil liberties.

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» Great ideas Posted by: rsmohio
» Cynthia McKinney is a nutbag Posted by: Smackback
You're forgetting something
Posted by: EinMD on May 1, 2008 10:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This isn't money teleported in from space.

This isn't mana from heaven.

This is MY money that I already paid the government. They're just giving me a little bit of it back in the hopes that I will spend it and put it back into the economy. The really sad thing is, between my wife and I we make 100k a year and we're just barely staying above water and it's not because we're living extravagantly. We live in a 7 year old town house and both drive 5-6 year old used vehicles. We've replaced all our lights with CF's. We consolidate trips. We carpool. We reuse, reduce and recycle everything we can. Yet we're still being squeezed like a lemon at a lemonade stand.

What will I do with it? Well lets take a look, shall we?

40 miles from work = 80 miles a day round trip
80 miles a day = 400 miles a week
400 miles / 17 mpg = 23.5 g a week.
23.5g of gas at $3.50 = $82.25 a week
$82.25 week x 4 weeks = $329

So a $600 stimulus check will almost cover two months of my transportation budget. So you're damned right I'm going to spend it. It will be spent paying off the bills that have been piling up on me because of the fact that I'm putting out on average $329 a month in gas assuming that I don't do anything other than go to work and the price of gas doesn't rise above $3.50 ( which it already has) . This also doesn't cover the gas my wife uses in her car, also having to drive about 40 miles each way to get to work. Not to mention my electric bill has jumped 75% in the last year. Not because I'm using more electricity but because of this BG&E nonsense about there "hasn't been a rate hike since the 70's".

So precisely what am I supposed to do with this stimulus check now? I'd love to by a hybrid, or at least a car with better fuel economy. But I can't because the car I'm driving depreciated faster than I could pay it off and even if I sold it for full blue book value in 'Excellent' condition I'd still be $1200 in the hole on the car loan I took out for two years ago when I crashed my old car and gas was about $2 a gallon. Not to mention the fact that decent hybrids start at about $16k which is well more than I can afford per month for a car payment right now anyway.

I'd love to stick some solar panels up on the roof to help mitigate my electric bill. But the local ordinances won't allow it and the home owner's association wouldn't allow it either. Not to mention that having enough solar panels on my house would run me about as much as my car did to install and purchase the panels and all the accoutrements to go with them. Just to lower my electric bill a little.

There could be all these wonderful advances that could help us all out here to lower our costs and help us live decent lives again instead of living paycheck to paycheck. Well, if we'd spend just a fraction of what we're pissing away in Iraq each day in developing the electric cars that Detroit compacted into little metal cubes back in the 90's we wouldn't be as deep in the drekker as we are right now. It's a hell of a lot easier to generate electricity using wind, geothermal, tidal, hydro electric and other alternatives than it is to get oil and turn it into gas.

But ultimately what we need to not forget is that we are currently at war and we're at war with borrowed money. The cost of gas has skyrocketed. The price of foodstuffs is now going up because of it and because 75%+ of the crap all of us use on a daily basis is made with some sort of petroleum product ( from the cellophane your sandwich is wrapped in to the tires on your car ) all of that's going to go up too.

A lot of us are TRAPPED where we are now. We can't help but spend this stimulus check. I can't sell my house and move closer to work, because nobody is buying. I bought the damned thing in the first place because all the places that were >>>>>

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Hoping to do my part...
Posted by: robalb on May 1, 2008 10:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can hardly afford to live just like the next person, but still I plan to donate my entire check to an anti-war or environmental organization. Just my little way of telling W. how much I think of his stupid policies.

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Bear Stearns was bailed out.. with monopoly money
Posted by: cyr3n on May 1, 2008 10:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This whole article is bunk. The federal reserve has already bailed out large companies, churning our millions in monopoly money to bail them out thus devaluing the dollar. The longer you hold onto that rebate check, the less buying power you'll have. Spend it fast!

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I'm not being very stimulated
Posted by: bedasso on May 1, 2008 10:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My "stimulus" check went from one part of the government to another. They're keeping it to pay off some of the taxes I owe for last year. Nice job, GW. Dumbass.

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Buy Chinese stock
Posted by: billwald on May 1, 2008 10:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If everyone used the check to buy Chinese stocks we could run up their inflation which would help American workers keep their jobs.

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Rent
Posted by: DaBear on May 1, 2008 11:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting article... something for all you owning/middling classers to ponder, huh?

FOr me, too many urgent needs we have to cut things back to the real basics: food water shelter clothing energy. $600 plus whatever bribes our offspring will attract from the feds we'll take and use to move so we don't end up back on the street. That sucked worse than anything.

Know what it's like to watch your wife and kids go into a locked down temporary shelter while you get turned away because you're a male? Ever hear your 8 year old screaming your name hysterically because he's sure he'll never see you again because you have to live on the street that night? It's no fucking fun. And it's not fun gettin' rousted by cops all night from one spot to the next so you get no sleep, but you get your ass back to the shelter so your wife can get to her job and you can get your kids to school, then having to deal with the office staff who learned from the Inquisition how to drag the details of your lack of address so they can get your kid kicked out of school and then you gotta fight them so your kid can stay in school anyway, because the law says he's supposed to be allowed to but the district doesn't recognize that without a lawyer breathing down their neck... you get the picture yet? If you don't. Learn to listen real good.

SO when that stimulus check comes... aw shit, we gotta have an address by then so they can fwd the mail.. fuck! details details... where's that Xanax bottle? Rent! Rent! RENT!

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» Have You Considered Writing Posted by: Gravitas
happy enough
Posted by: alms for iraq on May 1, 2008 11:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My credit card debt is not too bad, i rent an apartment and i'm reasonably ok. So I plan to donate the entire $600 to charity. It's not my money, it was stolen from the taxpayers collectively and i hope i can give it back to help people in need.

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Stimulus Response
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on May 1, 2008 11:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The writer proposes us not to spend the stimulus check issued by the government, because he says, in a roundabout way, will increase the debt we already have.
There are those who make that much ($600) in one hour than some of us in two weeks or more. Rich people laugh at that sum, but many of us are hurting, and that check can cover some expenses.
Lower class Americans need a break from the financial drubbing we've taken and it's not getting easier on the economic front, either. Personally the government should keep the money because some say future generations will have to pay this debt back. Regardless of what happens with the "stimulus" check, it'll never be enough. Mine won't be delivered until late June.
How did we get into this mess? Does anyone see a way out of our malaise?

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Observer
Posted by: Harbans on May 1, 2008 11:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they spend the "stimulous" money on bread and better or to pay for prescription drugs,
shows, they lack resources to meet their essential requirements -- that they are poor.
Find a solution to end poverty in this 'affluent' society.Rich will automatically add this money to their bank deposits.

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» RE: Observer Posted by: BCcovers
Not Cashing the Check is like Voting for a 3rd Party Candidate
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on May 1, 2008 12:00 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everyone ought to do it.

We never all get on the same page though and even if we did there would be plenty of people who would cash it or vote Dem/Repub anyway ruining the whole thing.

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Chump change...
Posted by: polyrhythms on May 1, 2008 12:34 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My $600 will simply get added to the piles of money I have lying around, so I guess it doesn't matter whether I cash the check.

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"Stimulus" check
Posted by: mountainmama on May 1, 2008 4:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We spent a bit of it by donating to Obama's campaign. The rest will not be spent, the little it is and no matter how much we need it, or pay some bills. The whole thing is a joke. Don't trust these people to make some changes and decide to tax you for it or some such thing next year!

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» They won't be fixed anyway! Posted by: asilsfable
Another idea from the corpulent male at the food line up
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on May 1, 2008 4:50 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Invest it in renewable energy

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Huffington has too much money!
Posted by: carbon-based on May 1, 2008 6:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Huffington is living in a fantasy land.. Do they really think that most people that need those checks are going to hold on to them because theoretically if they do not spend them the dollar is worth more..
How out of touch with reality and the plight of Americans can they be!

Maybe those that swindled a fortune out of an ex husband can afford to try that theory out. The rest of America has bills to pay!

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"Getting By" On Credit
Posted by: BCcovers on May 2, 2008 9:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While this might be true for some; most of the people in the US with high credit card debt are there through their own doing. The culture of consumerism and materialism has forced many people into thinking that they need things that they don't. Shit, you don't even need a computer, Gates and Jobs convinced you guys of that. Anyone who's posting here complaining about their credit card debt, look around you and ask: "How much of this crap do I really need". If you cannot afford it don't have kids, don't go on vacations, buy a used car, and COOK AT HOME. Restaurants are one of the most frivilous, unhealthy things people in this country throw their money into. Yet even in the "depression" all you folks say were in I see the chain restaurants packed on Friday nights with middle/working class families. All spending what could buy a week's groceries on some Fajita's and pizza shooters at Chili's.

There are some people that truly are in bad straits and have to survive on credit. However, most aren't and have to take some personal responsinility! You decided to own a credit card and use it. It was a fair business transaction that you agreed to and decided to abuse. Frankly, it's best if we all just cut them up or left them at home for emergencies only. And remember the differences between needs and societal-manufactured desire.

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If you support the war
Posted by: Mamarianne on May 2, 2008 4:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would like to see a movement that says: "If you support the war, mail your check to the pentagon." Somehow I doubt that many checks would be forwarded.

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Send it to the woman opposing Pelosi
Posted by: fomented on May 2, 2008 9:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shirley Golub

http://www.shirley08.com/rubber_chicken.php

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Stagnant US Capitalism needs a consumer spending stimulus but one based on massive public investment
Posted by: yellow on May 3, 2008 12:09 PM   
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The current stagnant condition of US late capitalism grew out of a set of deflationary monetary policies supported by a political coalition of finance capital and industrial capital which saw an opportunity to use a recession to stop wage acceleration and bankrupt high unit cost manufacturers to get their markets and consolidate industrial capacity through mergers and acquisitions. This was the underpinnings of the "Reagan Revolution" of finance capital which began late capitalism's strategy of debt financed growth financed by foreign portfolio and direct investment as US manufacturers shifted high wage assembly operations to low wage countries. Imports from US corporate subsidiaries located abroad were financed by foreign capital flows attracted by high interest rates. This became necessary in light of decreased consumer demand as this strategy lowered real wages and eliminated middle class purchasing power. A maldistribution of wealth led to a financialized global economy which was more stagnant than the earlier middle class based industrial economy and debt grew as a proportion of global GDP.

Today, many people see the growing inflation, a result of massive deficits produced by this strategy, as the problem despite the fact that the US working class actually had much higher real incomes in the 1970s during rampant double digit inflation!! Higher interest rates would only cause a massive deflation and depression. Rapidly falling prices reduce wages and business earnings, while debt burdens contracted at fixed interest rates remain unchanged. Unable to repay debts that were contracted when prices and incomes were higher, the indebted raise cash by selling off assets like homes and business. This only further drives down asset prices and makes the economy more unstable and insoluable as bankruptcy rates rise. Bank runs and depression results as defaults mount and incomes drop and the economy sinks further. The 20% drop in average price levels during the Great Depression created massive unemployment and bankruptcy. Only the incomes of creditors and financiers are helped by deflation. Though a depression would help no one, finance capital seeks to use monetary policy to shift income from the poor to the rich.

Keynes viewed raising lowering interest rates in a stagnant economy as futile and advocated massive public investment instead. Lower interest rates in our time led not to more investment but to a real estate bubble which led to borrowing against future asset appreciation to finance steady consumer spending to offset economic stagnation. This has led to the current crisis. The bubble itself has its roots in stagnation, not FED monetary policy alone. Progressive taxation for a program of public investment and job creation is the only way out. More tax cuts for the very rich will only deepen the crisis.

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