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Pope Ignores the War, Gets Free Pass on Sex Abuse

By Ray McGovern, Consortium News. Posted April 23, 2008.


Pope Benedict XVI arrived in the U.S. last week against a macabre backdrop featuring reports of torture, execution and war. He chose not to notice.

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Torture: Fresh reporting by ABC from inside sources depicted George W. Bush's most senior aides (Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Rice and Tenet) meeting dozens of times in the White House during 2002/03 to sort out the most efficient mix of torture techniques for captured "terrorists."

When initially ABC attempted to insulate the president from this sordid activity, Bush abruptly bragged that he knew all about it and approved. That comment and the action memorandum Bush signed on Feb. 7, 2002, dispelled any lingering doubt regarding his personal responsibility for authorizing torture.

Execution: Meanwhile, the U.S. Supreme Court, with a majority of judges calling themselves Catholic, was openly deliberating on whether one gram, or two, or perhaps three of this or that chemical would be the preferred way to execute people.

Always colorful prominent Catholic layman Antonin Scalia complained impatiently, "Where does it say in the Constitution that executions have to be painless?"

Scalia did not seem at all concerned that the Pope might remind him and his Catholic colleagues about the Church's teaching on capital punishment, i.e., the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent." (Evangelium Vitae 56).

It was enough to bring this student of German history (and five-year resident there) vivid memories of frequenting those places where precisely these kinds of torture and execution policy reviews were conducted at similarly high levels by Hitler's inner circle -- yes, including judges.

War: Can the Pope possibly be so suffused with his peculiar brand of theology that he is oblivious to what happened when he was a young man during the Third Reich?

Is it possible that papal advisers forgot to tell him that the post-WWII Nuremberg Tribunal described an unprovoked war of aggression, of the kind that the Third Reich and George W. Bush launched, as the "supreme international crime, differing from other war crimes only in that it contains the accumulated evil of the whole?"

Could they have failed to tell the Pope he would be hobnobbing with war criminals, torturers and the enabling cowards in Congress who refuse to remove them from office?

For this Catholic, it was a profoundly sad spectacle -- profoundly sad.

Not since WWII, when the Reich's bishops swore personal oaths of allegiance to Hitler (as did the German Supreme Court and army generals) have the papacy and bishops acted in such a fawning, un-Christ-like way.

With very few exceptions, the bishops (Catholic and Evangelical Lutheran) collaborated with the Nazis. Meanwhile, Hamlet-like Pius XII kept trying to make up his mind as to whether he should put the Catholic Church at some risk, while Jews were being murdered by the thousands.

Albert Camus

In 1948, in the shadow of that monstrous world war, the French author/philosopher Albert Camus accepted an invitation from the Dominican Monastery of Latour-Maubourg.

To their credit, the Dominicans wanted to know what an "unbeliever" thought about Christians in the light of their behavior during the '30s and '40s. Camus' words seem so terribly relevant today that it is difficult to trim them:

"For a long time during those frightful years, I waited for a great voice to speak up in Rome. I, an unbeliever? Precisely. For I knew that the spirit would be lost if it did not utter a cry of condemnation ...

"It has been explained to me since, that the condemnation was indeed voiced. But that it was in the style of the encyclicals, which is not all that clear. The condemnation was voiced and it was not understood. Who could fail to feel where the true condemnation lies in this case?

"What the world expects of Christians is that Christians should speak out, loud and clear, and that they should voice their condemnation in such a way that never a doubt, never the slightest doubt, could rise in the heart of the simplest man.

"That they should get away from abstraction and confront the blood-stained face history has taken on today.

"It may be ... that Christianity will insist on maintaining a compromise, or else on giving its condemnations the obscure form of the encyclical. Possibly it will insist on losing once and for all the virtue of revolt and indignation that belonged to it long ago.

"What I know -- and what sometimes creates a deep longing in me -- is that if Christians made up their mind to it, millions of voices -- millions, I say -- throughout the world would be added to the appeal of a handful of isolated individuals, who, without any sort of affiliation, today intercede almost everywhere and ceaselessly for children and other people." (Excerpted from Resistance, Rebellion, and Death: Essays)

Sixty years ago!

Perhaps the Dominican monks took Camus seriously; monks tend to listen. Vatican functionaries, on the other hand, tend to know it all, and to urge the Pope to be "discrete."

You saw that this past week with the Pope in Washington and New York, as he forfeited the opportunity to follow the biblical injunction to speak truth to power -- to speak out clearly, as Camus suggested, with moral authority.

Catholics all around

Think back to last week and all the prominent Catholics who flocked to see the Pope -- many of them officials with considerable influence in the judiciary and legislature, with some important players in the executive branch as well.

There they were, with their families, the five Catholic Supreme Court justices, fresh from detailed deliberations on how best to implement state-sponsored killings, executions that are banned by virtually every civilized country.

Justice Scalia audibly salivated over how much noxious chemical should be shot into the veins of a "condemned," and how quickly. (For those with strong stomachs, C-SPAN captured the proceedings.)

I am embarrassed to acknowledge that, like me, Scalia is the product of a Jesuit education (Xavier H.S. in Manhattan and Georgetown College). Despite his advocacy of "soft" torture techniques like driving nails under fingernails, Scalia continues to be lionized by many Jesuits and bishops alike.

In the House? Speaker Nancy Pelosi, erstwhile doyenne of the Archdiocese of Baltimore and now San Francisco, and minority leader John Boehner, R-Ohio -- Catholics both -- are about to allocate another hundred billion dollars to death and destruction in Iraq and Afghanistan for the most reprehensibly crass of political purposes -- the coming election.

Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass., last week tried to guild the lily, noting that Pelosi now insists that, in McGovern's words,  "We're an equal branch of government; we're no longer a cheap date." Right.

Sadly, it appears that Pelosi's key functionaries on House Appropriations (both of them Catholics) will cave in once again.

It is not as though they do not know the right thing to do. Just six months ago, Appropriations chair Dave Obey, D-Wisconsin, declared, "I have no intention of reporting out of committee anytime in this session of Congress any such [funding] request that simply serves to continue the status quo."

Subcommittee chair John Murtha, D-Pa., put it even more strongly a year before Obey did, and came close to calling the occupation of Iraq a lost cause -- which, of course, it is. But it is not politic to say that before the election. Never mind the troops on the front lines.

Obey and Murtha caved last time. I will find it particularly devastating if Obey caves again now, for I have always considered him among the best legislators in Congress.

And since he is from Wisconsin, Obey recognizes better than others the McCarthy-ite demagoguery coming from the likes of Texas Republican Michael Burgess, to the effect that anything short of giving the president all the war funding he demands is "basically giving aid and comfort to the enemy."

Pelosi also has been unusually candid in admitting that it is electoral politics, pure and simple, that explain her resistance to holding President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney accountable for high crimes and misdemeanors via the orderly procedure given us by the Founders for precisely this purpose -- impeachment in the House, trial in the Senate.

If, as widely expected, the war funding goes through, several hundred more American troops are likely to die before some common sense can be injected into U.S. policy next year -- not to mention how many Iraqis.

Iraq is a shambles. Two million Iraqis have fled abroad; another two million are internal refugees. Am I the only one who finds macabre the raging debate as to whether the attack and occupation of Iraq has resulted in a million or "only 300,000" Iraqis dead?

Apparently, the Pope did not have any opinion on the Iraq War.

But torture?

Surely the Pope would speak out against the kind of torture for which our country has become famous: Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, CIA "black sites" -- the more so, since Jesus of Nazareth was tortured to death.

The Pope chose silence, which presumably came as welcome relief to four-star torturer's apprentice Gen. Michael Hayden, now head of the CIA.

The White House has made clear that Hayden is ready to instruct his torturers to waterboard again, upon Caesar's approval.

Hayden proved his mettle when he was head of the National Security Agency. He saluted smartly when the president and vice president told him to disregard the Foreign Intelligence and Surveillance Act and his oath to defend the Constitution.

One of Hayden's predecessors as NSA director asserted that Hayden should have been court-martialed. Pelosi was briefed both on the illegal surveillance and the torture, but did nothing.

Having demonstrated his allegiance to the president, Hayden was picked to head the CIA. The general likes to brag about his moral training and Catholic credentials. At his nomination hearing, he noted that he was the beneficiary of 18 years of Catholic education.

All the while it was quite clear he was positively lusting to be in charge of waterboarding and other torture techniques -- whatever you say, boss.

I was somewhat crestfallen after adding up my own years of Catholic education -- only 17. Clearly I missed "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques 301."

Keep it general, focus on others' sins

Saturday at the U.N., the pontiff pontificated on "God-given human rights" and "massive human rights abuses," but pretty much left it at that. The Washington Post reported that the Pope was "short on specifics and long on broad themes."

But there was one specific. Here in the U.S., the Pope seemed to prefer to dwell on the pedophilia scandal -- to the exclusion of much else. He is to be applauded for meeting with victims of clergy sexual abuse and expressing deep shame, but he got a free pass from the media in disguising his own role in trying to cover the whole thing up.

While still Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, he headed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith -- the Vatican office that once ran the Inquisition. In that capacity he sent a letter in May 2001 to all Catholic bishops throwing a curtain of secrecy over the widespread sexual abuse by clergy, warning the bishops of severe penalties, including excommunication for breaching "pontifical secrets."

Lawyers acting for the sexually abused accused Ratzinger of "clear obstruction of justice."

Very few American bishops have been disciplined. And when Bernard Cardinal Law was run out of Boston for failing to protect children from predator priests, he was given a cushy sinecure in Rome; many believe he should be behind bars.

In an interview with the Catholic News Service in 2002, Ratzinger branded media coverage of the pedophilia scandal "a planned campaign ... intentional, manipulated, a desire to discredit the church."

It is nice that the Pope has now changed his tune. Nicer still for him, he found himself mostly in the congenial atmosphere of Washington, where very few powerful miscreants are held accountable.

So what did you expect?

I do wish my friends would stop asking me that.

While it was good that the Pope addressed the pedophilia issue head on, it seemed as though he made a decision to devote time and energy to the issue.

The side benefit, of course, was being able to speak in glorious generality on other major issues -- war, torture, capital punishment -- in all of which, as we have seen, many of "the faithful" are deeply engaged -- embarrassingly engaged.

I had hoped -- naively, it turned out -- that the Pope might encourage his brother bishops to find the courage to state plainly what 88 bishops of the Methodist faith, George W. Bush's tradition, declared on Nov. 8, 2005:

"We repent of our complicity in what we believe to be the unjust and immoral invasion and occupation of Iraq. In the face of the United States administration's rush toward military action based on misleading information, too many of us were silent.

"We confess our preoccupation with institutional enhancement and limited agendas while American men and women are sent to Iraq to kill and be killed, while thousands of Iraqi people needlessly suffer and die."

I thought that perhaps the U.S. Catholic bishops could adopt the kind of resolution that 125 Methodist bishops signed on Nov. 9, 2007. It called for an immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq and the reversal of any plans to establish permanent military bases there.

The Methodist bishops' resolution noted: "Every day that the war continues, more soldiers and innocent civilians are killed with no end in sight to the violence, bloodshed, and carnage." And Bishop Jack Meadors summed up the situation nicely:

"The Iraq war is not just a political issue or a military issue. It is a moral issue."

Holocaust museum in Jerusalem

Visiting Yad VaShem, the Holocaust museum in West Jerusalem last summer, I experienced painful reminders of what happens when the church allows itself to be captured by empire. An acquiescent church, it is clear, loses whatever residual moral authority it may have had.

At the entrance to the museum, a quotation by German essayist Kurt Tucholsky set a universally applicable tone:

"A country is not just what it does -- it is also what it tolerates."

Still more compelling words came from Imre Bathory, a Hungarian who put his own life at grave risk by helping to save Jews from the concentration camps:

"I know that when I stand before God on Judgment Day, I shall not be asked the question posed to Cain: 'Where were you when your brother's blood was crying out to God?'"

According to former President George H. W. Bush, George W. has "read the Bible straight through -- twice." Perhaps he skipped by that passage too quickly; or maybe he is highly selective as to whom he considers his brothers.

No excuse for Benedict, though; he knows better. And yet he opted to squander his glorious chance to speak out and make a difference.

Methodist Bishop Meadors is right; the war is a moral issue. But President Bush has refused, time and time again, to meet with his Methodist bishops. And now he has the imprimatur of the Pope.

The bottom line is challenging: to the degree that right and wrong, moral and immoral considerations are to be injected into discussions about war, executions, torture -- well, let's face it. There is only us.


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See more stories tagged with: torture, war in iraq, pope, sex abuse, pope benedict xvi, pope visit u.s., clergy sex abuse

Former CIA analyst Ray McGovern is co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.

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Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 23, 2008 12:34 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"There is no god, just six billion people who are scared of dying."


Direct Democracy

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Terrorist Posted by: Richard House
» RE: Terrorist Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Terrorist Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Religion & Power Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Why indeed? Posted by: Crazy H
» Back up Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: Why indeed? Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Why indeed? Posted by: edgar_michel
» Scared of dying Posted by: Cathyc
» True leadership Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: True leadership Posted by: werewolf
» RE: werewolf Posted by: werewolf
What's the problem with him?
Posted by: saltoafronteira on Apr 23, 2008 2:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John Paul II, though he was a conservative in many terms, denounced, without fear or sophism, the crime of Irak's invasion.
What happened with this pope?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

First and Most Faithful Horseman
Posted by: Purple Girl on Apr 23, 2008 2:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a Recover Catholic, I consider the Pope the first leader of the Horsemen of Religious figures who act as the Apocalypse first Horseman. Of Course he wil ignore War & Torture- it's one of the first lesson Religious Heirarchies Taught the Others (Gov't, Inc's & Media) If it is not direct torture they do so through methods of economics, oppression and Mindcontrol. These are the four Horsemen which Mankind has been battling not only for Humanity and Peace- but for the very Planet which we must rely on for all that exists. They hide & disguise themselfs with Brick & Mortar, claims that we can not survive with out them and do everything they can to Divide US, thus conquer and control US. Mankind not only survived before them We Thrived and evolved. They have done nothing but place barriers before US to stunt such Progress of our Species. any time One human places themselves above another in value that is the evidence of their complicity with that which works against Humanity, and Nature (Or God)

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lessons of history
Posted by: QCao009 on Apr 23, 2008 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We should not be surprised at what the Church or the American government does. All we have to do is look at history. The Church stood idly by while Hitler tried to exterminate a whole race and it will stand idly by again while GW tried his brand of crusade. Once in a while in the history of the human race, someone like John Paul attempts and manages to balance the dogma of his institution with the integrity of his character. The rest of the time, puny wretched souls like GW think too much of themselves to make any difference. He will fade away and leaves the rest of us, his children and family included, to pay for his sins.

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» RE: lessons of history Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Two errors of logic here Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: lessons of history Posted by: desidid
RE: The Whore of Babylon
Posted by: redstar1970 on Apr 23, 2008 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just need to look at the 1600 years of blood-soaked history of the Catholic Church. That's all I need to do to condemn the Church.

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RE: The Whore of Babylon
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Apr 23, 2008 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for reminding McGovern that he is not clear about many of his criticisms. Bush & the pope had a private meeting and the Pope refused to meet with Condi Rice a few months ago. Iraq is a major sore spot. That's common knowledge. If the Pope's agenda didn't have McGovern's approval perhaps he should take that up with the Pope. Is there any other religion that everyone is free to degrade in public space? Someone name just one. Anna

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» RE: The Whore of Babylon Posted by: EncinoM
» No, they just lie to people Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Proof: lack of logic. Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Attacking the catholic church, Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» You deceive! Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: You deceive! Posted by: Ocean tides
» RE: No, they just lie to people Posted by: Richard House
» RE: The Whore of Babylon Posted by: LMNOP
Condi Rice is the "Oil" Whore of Babylon..! Jeeze Louise..
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Apr 23, 2008 12:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a great way to earn the Catholic vote for Obama which he needs to win..in 2008..60,000,000 of us and that's 20% of the population..

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RE: The Whore of Babylon
Posted by: fork on Apr 23, 2008 1:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought that was Bush:

Great Whore of Babylon = GWB = George W. Bush

That's what I read in a letter to the newspaper anyway, so it must be true.

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I AGREE ......YOU IGNORED THE POPES COMMENTS
Posted by: jew4Jesus on Apr 23, 2008 8:04 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ONCE AGAIN LEAVE IT TO THE ZIONIST MEDIA TO ATTACK THE POPE AND BY EXTENSION XTIANITY

IS IT ONLY CATHOLICS WHO HAVE ABUSE ?

GOOGLE RABBI SEX ABUSE

GOOGLE HINDU SEX ABUSE

GOOGLE MUSLIM SEX ABUSE

IF WERE GONNA TALK ABOUT CATHOLIC ABUSE WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT ABUSE IN OTHER FAITHS, IF WE DONT THEN WE ARE JUST SHOWING OUR ANTICATHOLIC BIASES.

ANTI-CATHOLICISM : THE " ACCEPTABLE" DISCRIMINATOON

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Excellent post
Posted by: carbon-based on Apr 24, 2008 7:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
About time - a religious post that makes sense! Well done!

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Why Are The Faithful Confused and Contradictory?
Posted by: Overburdened Planet on Apr 23, 2008 6:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a visit to the United States last week, Pope Benedict spoke several times about the child sex abuse scandal, which has cost dioceses a total of $2 billion, bankrupting six, and shook the faith of many Catholics. He was the first pope to meet with sex abuse victims.
——
Not one bishop has been removed from office because of his own complicity, collusion or cover-up of the church's continuing sexual-abuse problems. Nor has anyone been forced to resign for violating Canon Law or criminal or civil laws.

…The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has hailed diocesan programs across the country celebrating this month as Child Abuse Awareness Month. "We can never rest when it comes to protecting children and teenagers," said Bishop Gregory Aymond, chairman of the conference's Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People.

However, Catholic conferences and church lobbyists in such states as Pennsylvania, New York, Maryland, Colorado and Ohio have been ruthless in their opposition to the complete removal of statutes of limitation regarding the sexual abuse of minors.

Superior Court Judge Robert B. Young ruled last Wednesday that Delaware's Child Victims Act does not violate the state constitution, based on the fact that federal courts already have set a precedent for upholding similar laws. The act was passed in 2007 to eliminate the civil statute of limitations for child-sexual abuse and to allow a two-year window during which previously barred suits could be filed.

Removing statutes of limitations is the single most effective method of holding sexual predators - and any possibly complicit or enabling individuals or institutions - accountable along with the inclusion of "window legislation" such as Delaware's to bring forth previously time-barred cases of abuse.

——
"I was in tears from the moment I saw his (the pope's) red shoes coming up the steps," she said.
——
When Faith Johnston looked into the eyes of Pope Benedict XVI, she felt genuine sorrow and regret. She also saw his tears.

…Johnston, now 23, said she never got an apology from Iguabita, but she did get one from the pope.

..."And for him I think it was an eye-opener, which is a good thing. He had tears in his eyes and that says a lot. It tells me that the church is going to make some changes.

..."If an apology comes from a bishop, that has some merit. But when it's the pope, it's powerful and it's unique. There is only one pope," Conole said. "For him to voice his concern, his passion, his empathy and his apology is so very powerful.

..."On one hand I thought to myself, why is he apologizing?" she said. "It's not his fault. I'd like an apology from the one who hurt me."

——
If someone disagrees with corporate practices, how often do they refuse to buy their product or service? If someone disagrees with their church how often do refuse to defend their church's position, stop giving money, or leave their church? Are the Catholics being surveyed/interviewed delusional and susceptible to fantasical thinking? Why is an apology from a child molester worth anything? Why is the pope's apology meaningful? Why does he bless Ferraris? and why does the pope's blessing have a shelf life or range limit, I mean why can't he bless the world once from the Vatican and be done with it? Maybe it means something when he visits...and lies need constant reinforcement, right?

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» Wise Up Catholics and Ye of Belittled Faith Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» pfeifer999 is winding down... Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» RE: strategic withdrawal Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» RE: dude Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» RE: Overburdened Planet Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» RE: Overburdened Planet Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» RE: Overburdened Planet, Part II Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» RE: Overburdened Planet (1 of 3) Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» RE: Overburdened Planet (2 of 3) Posted by: Overburdened Planet
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» Combo Finale? Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» RE: Combo Finale Duex? Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» More Combined Respones Posted by: Overburdened Planet
The Pope's Responsibility For Population Growth - The Real Evil
Posted by: opmoc on Apr 23, 2008 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Pope is the major religious leader of around one third of the World's population - but his influence is even greater than that as World religious leaders tend to have similar fundamental policies.

The Pope's banning of contraception together with continued cultural encouragement for large families is very effectively condemning the human race to hell on earth. Mass horrible death of Billions of People is the inevitable result.

An individual who is brought up as a Catholic and really believes is confronted with a terrible choice. The Church even now teaches that to withdraw your penis and ejaculate outside of the vagina is a mortal sin - that will condemn you to hell for all eternity. If you follow the teachings as given and have a normal amount of sex with your wife, she is likely to conceive over 10 times in her life.

Because the World has more human beings than can be supported - on average over 8 of those children will die an early horrible death.

The reality of the situation we face was brought home to me - simply by calculating basic numbers.

I've just spent two weeks on a small island. I reckon if the island was completely isolated - just suppose it was the only island on the planet - I reckon it could support 100 people sustainably for as long as the planet lasts - but not any more.

So say the island was populated with 10 males and 10 females who were 20 years old.

If they limited themselves to 2 children per female the population would grow to 100 in 60 years with no deaths. The original 20 people would then die a natural death between the ages of 80 and 100 - and the population would become numerically stable.

If instead they limited themsleves to 3 children per female after only 40 years the population would grow from 20 to 95. The society would then witness deaths at a horrendous rate. The island can only support 100 people but after 60 years, 141 new births would have occurred - and there would be 61 early deaths.

The planet Earth is logically equivalent to the Island.

The policies of the Pope are profoundly immoral and evil. They make Bush, Cheney and Blair look like choirboys in comparison.

Yet there is virtually no public discussion or serious crticism of the Pope or other religious and cultural leaders who through their promotion of large families are leading us to the mass genocide of Billions and possible extinction of the human race.

Whilst the political discussion is about climate change, financial crashes, energy and food shortages - the real issue of far too many births is completely negelected.

Is the human race so stupid that it cannot analyse the real problem and solve it gracefully? Kids are great but there is no need to have loads of them. In fact for a family to have more than 2 children should produce disgust and condemnation. People need to wake up to reality or things will get really horrible very quickly.

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» AMEN! Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Amen again opmoc! Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Lame argument! Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» people are made stupid Posted by: e rice
Dockside
Posted by: rtmyth on Apr 23, 2008 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Men never do evil so cheerfully and completely as when they do it from religious conviction.This is the history of the three religions-- Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.

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a minor omission
Posted by: pbutler on Apr 23, 2008 7:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...Hamlet-like Pius XII kept trying to make up his mind as to whether he should put the Catholic Church at some risk, while Jews were being murdered by the thousands.

And while his own flock of Catholics was being murdered by the hundreds of thousands. It's little known outside of Poland that over a million - many Poles believe closer to three million - Polish Catholic civilians were killed in the Nazi death camps, for the dual crimes of being Slavic "untermenschen" and of being the potential core of a local resistance. This was not done without the knowledge of the Vatican, whose newspaper ran a prompt obituary for Bishop Wetmanski without mentioning his place of death was Auschwitz.

It seems that Pius XII, whose nomination for sainthood was supported by both this and the previous pope, found that Nazi hostility toward Soviet Communism outweighed any moral consideration for a million and more of his own faithful "sheep".

Benedict XVI's silence follows a long tradition of selective papal outrage and acquiescence to atrocity.

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» RE: a minor omission Posted by: EncinoM
Ah yes
Posted by: Knobby on Apr 23, 2008 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
another story about humans being humans...

Let's see how did that line go; I'm rubber your glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you...

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Losing the Flock and Keeping it Gone
Posted by: Darklady on Apr 23, 2008 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for a great article that resonates with this ex-Catholic, who keeps hoping the Church of her youth will someday redeem itself.

I was baptized a Roman Catholic of the Irish tradition, so I guess I'm a Catholic until I die; or so I'm told. When I asked to be excommunicated, the local diocese laughed at me. Apparently that's only available for those who still want to be Catholics. Given how the Pope talks about Americans, I'm amazed he hasn't excommunicated the entire nation's membership, but I guess Rome needs our money.

I'm not really sure what I could do to officially get my walking papers from the RCC. After all, raping kids, promoting a creeping and increasingly immoral war, destroying a nation's economy, despoiling the earth, and proudly endorsing torture isn't enough -- and I, a happily fallen Catholic, find that list of sins stomach wrenchingly unappealing. Yet I, the endorser of sexual equality, am part of an easy target that the Pope and his minions delight in condemning: sexually active and non-reproducing women. But then, talking about sex is so much more fun than talking about or working toward genuine justice. After all, genuine justice doesn't really work well within a patriarchal society. Maybe Rome is more sympathetic to the White House than it can publicly acknowledge. After all, it's not like the Vatican doesn't have its own proud and blood-stained imperialist past...

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» RE: Losing the Flock and Keeping it Gone Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: AD THE POST ABOVE Posted by: photon's feather
Words Are Cheap
Posted by: hadashito on Apr 23, 2008 9:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Pope used the cheapest ploy to get around the innumerable sex crimes perpetrated by his minions: words and prayers. A lot good those will do the men ansd women whose lives have been ruined by the Pope's priests. And that is just in the USA. Are we to assume that no such crimes have been and are continuing to be committed in the rest of the world ? Hardly likely.
This extremely conservative Pontiff heads a corrupt, power hungry, antiquated organization the succeeds only because of the fear of death of its faithful and frightened practitioners and the false offering of "salvation" by the R C Church. The Pope is just another televangelist shyster.

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Advanced decay
Posted by: JayHaden on Apr 23, 2008 9:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After a week of media fawning over the Pope, Mr. McGovern's piece serves as a reality check. Lulled into thinking the Pope's visit was simply another two-faced conservative PR venture promoting image over deed (see: "Kinder, Gentler" and "Compassionate Conservatism"), I was jolted back to a world where leaders refuse to be held accountable for the evil done in their name. The shock comes from the realization that they can get away with it. That they can get away with it signals institutional rot that may be incurable without the body's own rebellion. Thank God for the Methodist ministers. Now, where are the others?

I find it amusingly sinister that Dick Cheney (our own Torquemada) goes duck hunting with Antonin Scalia (our own Pope Sixtus IV), and Scalia, in charge of interpreting the document that purports to guarantee our liberty, sees nothing wrong with torture for non-punitive purposes, a position advocated by Cheney. Among those non-punitive purposes, it seems, is just plain, good 'ol fun. I would hope the present Pope might be a little uneasy amongst such people. In any case, expect a CYA encyclical out of Rome in the near future decrying the use of torture. Don't expect the same from the Supreme Court.

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It's all part of the quest for Catholic world Domination..!
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Apr 23, 2008 12:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As even Chris Matthews put it last night "Obama doesn't seem to get the Catholic vote..!

That's 20% of the population 60,000,000 of us..

Now with every Obama supporting web site running these attacks upon the Pope and for many what appears to be also Catholicism itself you may just put John McCain in the White House which is really a part of our secret plan for absolute Catholic world domination...

To start WWII have the Mulsim and Hindus Protestants and Jews slaughter each other and see billions die that's what we're all about alright..

The Buddhists are cool they can stick around..

So now you know..

Tell no one of this..

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The only "God" is Humanity itself...
Posted by: Cathyc on Apr 23, 2008 3:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... and the likes of George W Bush and Benedict Ratzinger are not part of that human community. And what's more, they know it!

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God is all around us...
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Apr 23, 2008 3:17 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
God is all around us
He's everywhere you are
In the air you breath
The shining of a star

The drops of dew that gather
On an early morning bloom
The breeze that fills your sails
An in your lonely room

God is all around us
In every grain of sand
Every cactus flower
Every woman every man

God is all around us
He doesn't run and hide
God knows your fears and weakness
An every time you've lied

God is all around us
On the land an on the sea
He's with you as your dying
He's here right now with me

God is all around us
We've never been apart
He's in the smallest atom
An every cell that is your heart

Without Him there is nothing
Not space or dust or light
Or the clamor of the city
Or calmness of the night

God is all around us
It's all you need to know
In every mother's womb
An everywhere you go

God is all around us
Sweet mystery revealed
Every criminals redemption
Every cripple healed

God is all around us
He transcends space and time
Without Him there's no matter
Gravity or rhyme

God is all around us
It's as simple as this song
A bit of metaphysics
I hope it didn't take to long



TJ Colatrella aka TJ Cole

4/23/2008

use by permission

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Where DOES it say it must be painless?
Posted by: DeeOhGee on Apr 23, 2008 4:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is exactly what I always wondered about the silly "cruel and unusual" argument against a particular form of capital punishment. How can you argue with a straight face that the death penalty must be absolutely painless?

Also, what is the basis for keeping it private? If we are going to be a nation that executes people, it really ought to be public. If people can't stomach it, they shouldn't support it.

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Where DOES it say it must be painless?
Posted by: DeeOhGee on Apr 23, 2008 4:02 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is exactly what I always wondered about the silly "cruel and unusual" argument against a particular form of capital punishment. How can you argue with a straight face that the death penalty must be absolutely painless?

Also, what is the basis for keeping it private? If we are going to be a nation that executes people, it really ought to be public. If people can't stomach it, they shouldn't support it.

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Where DOES it say it must be painless?
Posted by: DeeOhGee on Apr 23, 2008 4:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is exactly what I always wondered about the silly "cruel and unusual" argument against a particular form of capital punishment. How can you argue with a straight face that the death penalty must be absolutely painless?

Also, what is the basis for keeping it private? If we are going to be a nation that executes people, it really ought to be public. If people can't stomach it, they shouldn't support it.

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POPE!!
Posted by: donl51 on Apr 23, 2008 5:54 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go home ,close your damn doors and shut the fuck up!! I didn't read the article I just needed someplace to write what I wrote,enough said!

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» RE: POPE!! Posted by: yale
Reglion and faith.....
Posted by: eosrk on Apr 23, 2008 6:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...are always causing wars! All the time.

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Of course!
Posted by: ankhet on Apr 23, 2008 7:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So - to raise enough money to pay for those priestly pedophiles, what does the Vatican, the champion of the poor, children, women, the meek, the mild, yadayada, do? They sell off a convent altogether, displacing a bunch of nuns, and hock a dozen parochial schools for collateral on a huge loan to pay off fines. So - the kids and the women pay for the priests again.

But the men-in-frocks continue to frolic in their Vatican palaces.

The sooner their palaces get converted into gambling casinos and 5-star hotels, the happier I'll be.

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THE POPE IS NOT GOD
Posted by: mindtrvlr on Apr 23, 2008 10:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GET REAL PEOPLE

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Over the centuries,
Posted by: bitsfick on Apr 25, 2008 1:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the Church spilt its lion’s share of blood in the name of God. In the 16th century, it burned poor Tyndale at the stake, then beheaded him, then mutilated him and all this because he translated the Bible into English so that regular folks could read it. Religion does not want anyone to think for themselves. By the way the reformation was brought about by the invention of the printing press.

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